Think you know what's in your supplements? Think again. In this myth-busting episode, biomedical researcher and Formetta founder Vanessa Craig breaks down the confusing world of collagen and supplements—what actually works, what's complete B.S., and why that Netflix documentary probably lied to you.

What You'll Learn:

1. Why your collagen levels are tanking after 25 (and what to do about it)
2. The vegan collagen myth—spoiler: it doesn't exist
3. What to ask supplement companies before you buy (most won't answer)
4. The one cooking hack that neutralizes toxins from grilled meat
5. Why "shooting from the hip" with supplements is basically useless

Real Talk Moments: Danna shares her journey from nearly-vegan to having to reintroduce meat for her health (legumes were NOT her friend). Megan opens up about her eyes basically giving her the middle finger when she turned 40. And Vanessa gets fired up about health documentaries being straight-up propaganda—we're looking at you, Game Changers.

Vanessa's Bottom Line: "Everyone is different. What works for one person won't work for another. That's why bioindividuality matters more than any book or documentary."

Connect with Vanessa Craig: formetta.com

Join the So Frickin' Healthy Community Get access to our extended cut episodes and support the show by signing up as a Member of the So Frickin' Healthy Community. You can join as a free or paid Member! We appreciate you listening! Join the So Frickin' Healthy Community

Check Out Organilicious Jump on a free discovery call with Danna, and find out more about the Urban Cleanse program Book Your Free Call

Mentioned in this episode:

Check out Organilicious.ch

Hey, lovely listeners. Ever feel like you're stuck on the diet hamster wheel. It's time to hop off and start feeling amazing with a little help from yours truly. I'm Danna your soon to be favorite functional medicine, health coach. And I'm here to help you ditch those diet fads and finally thrive. Whether you're ready to say goodbye to those pesky sugar cravings, get your digestion dancing, or just love your body again. I've got your back. Working with me is like having a health coach who's part guru part bestie and all about keeping it real. I'll help you create a plan that's as unique as you are. No cookie cutter solutions here. Head over to Organilicious.ch And let's jumpstart your wellness journey together. It's time to glow girl, because you deserve to shine.

Organilicious - Danna, Functional Medicine Health Coach

Hi everyone.

I'm Vanessa Craig.

I'm a biomedical researcher and the founder of Formetta.

We make a premium Swiss collagen supplement, and I'm today's guest

on the So Frickin' Healthy podcast.

We talk about the importance of collagen in the context of healthy aging, and we

bust many important myths surrounding nutrition and supplements and shed

light on the confusing supplement world.

Hi, Danna, how are you doing today?

Megan, I haven't seen your pretty face in too long.

I know I was offline for three whole glorious weeks and it was fantastic.

I did not sit at my desk.

I did not have on these headphones and I did not do anything other than

hang out with my fantastic nephew.

I'm so jealous.

I'm so, so jealous.

I have to say the weather didn't completely cooperate with us.

He was here for three weeks because if you're gonna pay for a ticket and

he has the time, so he should come.

He loves to hike.

He that's what he likes to do.

You know, he's not into museums or shopping or, or towns.

I mean, yeah.

He enjoys these, but really it's all about the hiking.

So I was like, okay, the first week we're gonna go out hiking.

I forced the poor boys to camp because I wanna do everything on the cheap,

because it can get really expensive, really fast if you do hotels every

night and it's weather is okay.

Right.

And so go to campgrounds.

We camp, we just, and then we hike.

That was the plan for the first week we come back the second

week, that was my birthday.

We had pub quiz.

We had fantasy Boal, which is like ComicCon and some other stuff.

And then go back out the third week for some more hiking and exactly

the weather was exactly wrong.

It was raining the first week, sunny, the second week and raining

the third week, I was so pissed.

We did a lot of hiking anyway, but not nearly as much as I had planned on.

I'm sorry.

That's okay.

We did try a VR experience.

Have you ever done VR virtual reality?

Well, I I've done like a mini version in an expo once,

which was just a complete mind.

Fucking, really cool.

And my friend has been banging me to go there's apparently a really cool place.

Somewhere around here.

Mm-hmm and she's been like, let's just go, let's just go.

And I'm like, yeah, yeah, maybe some other time, but I kind of wanna go, but it was

just like during COVID when she was like, let's go and put this like stuff that

people put on their face and then like, I'm like, no, I don't wanna do that.

But maybe now it's time.

I don't know.

Well, I had heard good things and my husband and I, we were interested in

VR just as a gaming set to have here.

He games, I game, we, you know, it was kind of like a natural,

like, should we get it right?

But I also get motion sickness.

And so that was something where we said, okay, we really wanna try it out.

And there's a VR center in Bosel and two different kinds.

Like one, we did an escape room because I thought, okay, I

don't wanna do anything where.

Like I'm flying, right?

I'm air quotes.

I'm flying because I feel like that's gonna make me nauseous.

Yeah.

So they sat us down each in a chair and we had these kind of hand, uh, sensors.

So you have the equipment on, and you have an earpiece in your ear with a microphone.

So you can hear the other people, which is kind of a little weird

because I can hear them naturally.

And then also through the microphone and we did this escape room, which.

I didn't think about it.

My husband chose the space one and I thought, okay, that's fine.

Whatever space, you know, he likes space.

We'll do the space.

One should have thought about it because we fly in fucking space.

so like floating around and I'm just like,

I didn't actually get sick, sick, but I did, at some point I just had to

stop moving and let those two do stuff.

The actual escape room part was fun, but it was also, we were so good.

We were expecting to be in this VR experience for an hour and we

were done in like half an hour.

And we're just like, . Oh, so, I mean, I think there's good things and bad things.

I, we didn't do like the whole body experience where you put on a pack and

you have something on your feet and your hands, so that's maybe something else.

But all three of us at the end were like, okay, we can check that off the list.

We don't need to do it again.

But yeah, but that's, you know, I forced, I think I forced my nephew to do it.

And you would think like an 18 year old boy who games would want to do it.

And he was just like, eh, I'll do it.

If you want to.

Which surprised me a little.

That's interesting.

So are you gonna get a, are you gonna get a, a system at home?

I don't know.

My husband has talked about it, but, um, it would be his then, and I don't know.

I let's say I'm not as enthralled with it as I, as I just regular games.

They're fine with me.

I think super Mario.

Uh, yeah, we left the driving games as well.

But, but Hey, we have a wonderful guest today, Vanessa, and maybe

we should hop into the interview.

Huh?

I think so too.

Let's get going.

Hi vanessa.

How's it going?

Hi guys.

very well.

Thanks.

Thank you for having me congrats on this podcast.

It's become a real treasure.

I love listening to it.

It's great when our, our, uh, guests also are listeners.

That's fantastic.

Yeah.

I mean, you guys have great chemistry and yeah.

I hope you really keep going.

I love the, it feels like you're really gonna dive into a broad range of topics

and yeah, you've got unique perspectives.

So keep going guys.

Thank you.

Yeah, we do have a lot of gold coming up, so I'm, I'm quite excited about it.

It's all about finding the time to edit but there you.

Yeah.

So Vanessa, we have you on the show today because we are really, really,

first of all, we, I, I love you, you know, this, we I've loved you for years.

Um, but we are just fascinated by your business and fascinated.

About you really and what you do.

And so we wanted to just ask all them questions and have everyone else,

especially our awesome listeners, you know, get to know you as well

and get to know about what you actually do and what you're all about.

So I know that Megan has a bunch of questions lined up for you.

I hope you're ready.

I do.

She's gonna ask.

' em all good.

So I think actually that's it.

Thank you, Donna.

uh, I think the first question, because, um, we're talking about your business

Formetta and this is a, a supplement and there are lots of supplements out there.

And for me as a supplement person, it's always difficult

to understand what's going on.

What do I need, what do I don't need?

And your, your supplement is specifically around collagen and I, I

saw your raw ingredients and everyth.

The best place to start is just simply to what is collagen, and like, what

is its main purpose in our body?

Yeah.

Can we just start there for everybody who doesn't know what collagen is?

Let's start there and then we can talk about yeah, how

overwhelming the supplement world is.

Mm-hmm and so, yeah, collagen is the most abundant protein in our body.

It's essentially the glue holding our body together.

So without it, we're a puddle on the floor.

So it's an important structural protein, and that's why it's quite alarming

that as we age, our collagen levels are declining and therefore, the best

thing you can do is boost your collagen stores to essentially remain youthful.

And the best way to do this since our diet is very collagen, poor is to supplement.

So take in high quality collagen peptides, preferably together with co ingredients

that, um, help with collagen synthesis.

So that's what my product is designed to do.

This is an advanced formulation with not only collagen peptides, but also

the, the essential co ingredients, which can help the cells make the

collagen because you are not essentially putting collagen into your body.

You're putting in the building blocks.

Which is going to trigger the cells to then make the collagen, which

is then going to go to all the necessary parts of your body, which

need collagen, which are various.

So of course we know the, the beautifying effects of collagen, the

skin, the nails, the hair, but also.

All of our internal organs, our joints, our bones, these rely on

collagen as well to stay healthy.

And I have to say just for, for our listeners, because you can't

see Vanessa's face and hair at the moment, and I'm sure Megan will agree.

she's got the most gorgeous skin and hair.

So obviously that shit works.

Making me blush Donna.

Um, that's so nice of you.

Look, that's really, my goal is to, um, so I'm a scientist and I

really set out to understand how we can slow down the aging process.

Naturally.

I know there's a lot of aesthetic medical things we can do and inject into our face.

I wanted to go down the natural route and really, harness nutrition, but

really understand what really works.

Because if you just look at the marketing, you go into a

shop which sells supplements.

I mean, you are told a million different things at once.

How are you meant to navigate this?

And luckily being a research scientist, I can look at all the research and know

what actually has scientific backing.

What is convincing, what will work.

And yeah, I mean, that is my goal is to slow down the aging process for

everyone because it's everyone, you know, health is individual with collagen.

That is something that I can recommend to everyone as opposed to

other supplements, which have to be really done on an individual basis.

Mm-hmm yeah.

So anyone over the age of 25 is their collagen stores are declining.

Once you reach menopause, they drop off a cliff.

So.

You really want to be mindful of how you are taking care and bolstering

your collagen to remain healthy.

So is collagen synthesis inside the body directly related

to our estrogen production then?

Yes, there is a link.

So as soon as our estrogen drops off with menopause, so

does our collagen production.

So of course, hormones are involved in so many different areas of our

body and yes, collagen production is certainly one of them.

So that's when yeah.

Sorry.

No.

I was gonna say, I think that's another one of those things that

nature never intended women to live beyond childbearing ears.

The body just shuts down, like you dry up and literally everywhere.

Right?

I mean, so I guess, um, yeah,

I don't know.

I don't know, but I don't know if I can agree to agree with that

because honestly, like I don't believe that we are meant to feel.

Such huge earthquakes when we're PMSing or when we're going through menopause.

I honestly don't believe that that, and, and Hey, fight me over it.

I'm, I'm happy to, to talk to you about it, but like, I'm really curious

about that because I do notice, I know that I used to suffer from PMs,

like crazy when I was growing up.

And that was my, when my diet was just miserable.

And now when my diet and lifestyle is really good, I

would like to think in it anyway.

Then I don't really suffer from it.

Right.

And you see also with my clients that would go, they go through

menopause and then they'll change their lifestyle and diet.

And they actually don't necessarily feel that much.

And I think Megan, you even told me about your mom and your grandma, right.

Who didn't necessarily feel such a huge, like shock from, from the

whole mm-hmm so.

I don't know.

Yeah.

I think it's just difficult because medical science doesn't allow for

women of childbearing years to have a lot of research done on them.

Yeah.

Because they're of childbearing years.

So, I mean, in general, we're, we're diving straight off into a

tangent here about women science.

science based on women women's bodies, because I mean, everything there's just

so much, we don't know about the women women's bodies and how they function.

Yeah, because we, you know, we're not supposed to experiment on

women who can still have children.

Okay.

So, but let me get back on track though.

I have to just 1, 1, 1 thing though, cause it's such

a fascinating topic to me about the lack of research on women.

You've probably seen also recently with the whole, you know, everyone

is intermittent fasting now, which is a lot of strong science

backing it up, but not in women.

And mm-hmm, , they're kind of saying now, That it's, it's not as easy.

It's not as straightforward giving advice to women, um, about intimate

fasting as well, because the research is clearly lacking in women.

So I think we still have to watch and wait to know exactly what to do.

Yeah.

I mean, we're, it really depends on your cycle about

how much stress you can handle.

And intermittent fasting is a huge stressor, um, based on Essis, which I know

you guys are familiar with and, um, Yeah.

So, no, I agree.

I agree.

I think that's, that's exactly why I actually do introduce the idea of

intermittent fasting to my clients, but we don't do it in such a way.

Like I always tell them like, look around your cycle, forget it.

Don't just do it.

Even if it's like, even if it's something that you're really thriving on, just

the fact that we are when we're.

Going through PMs.

We're gonna, I don't know about you ladies, but I eat the house down.

Like I eat the house down.

There's no way I could intermittent fast.

I don't even fast five minutes, let alone 16 hours, you know?

So it's just like what you, you need to listen to your body more than anything.

And I, and yeah.

And the intermittent fasting that I do with them is not really, I mean, like we.

Yeah.

Anyways, does long story short.

I agree.

I think that there's a lot.

There are.

Now there is now a bit more research about women with intermittent fasting, for sure.

Um, but I agree there isn't there just isn't enough in general, I think

in general, scientific studies are not focusing on women and then we're

just relying on information that was.

Basically tested on men.

And we're assuming that it's, you know, the same, but it really isn't

cuz men and women, not the same people.

Mm-hmm

. Danna: But all right.

Our tangent over, I guess oh,

I'm yeah, I was ready to go on another tangent.

So

I was gonna say like, and this is, this is one, a part of my huge gripe is

that, um, is just general health advice that is meant to apply to everyone.

So what I'm passionate about is individual health and that's really

how it has to be, uh, because something that works for someone, you know, a

ketogenic diet may work wonders for one person, but really not another.

And yeah, it's, it's what we see whether at the supermarkets or

the supplement aisle is that these things do not take that into account

and everyone is expected to take everything and expect the same results.

And mm-hmm yeah.

Frustrating.

Yeah.

I like the experiment of one.

It's you, you just keep and equals fun.

And, uh, you're the only one that really matters if it works

for you, it works for you.

I think we talked about that on the sleep episode, my husband was

so happy on the sleep episode.

He's like, cuz I, I, I don't like the fact that he drinks coffee at night or drinks

alcohol before bed but yet he's fine.

So I'm like, he's like, I am vindicated vindicated, cuz I, you know, I have

to just keep my mouth shut because I'm like, you're doing everything wrong,

but uh, , you know, it's, it's it's to each their own and as well as, you

know, as health coaches and as I know, you're also a, a nutritionist that.

I think you obviously have way more credentials to give people advice

on nutrition, but in general, you're doing it from an aspect of actual

physical tests that have been taken.

So you can give the proper advice, knowing blood tests, DNA tests,

um, as your other, other job that you do, um, besides Formetta.

And I think that's the proper way to do it when Donna and I, as a health coach

is really more along the lines of making sure people are making healthy decisions

and helping them do that experimental end of one, to see what works best for

them and to help them along that journey.

And I think that's a really good distinction and I'm glad

we have a nutritionist at.

Am I I'm not

actually.

Yeah.

I wouldn't call myself a nutritionist guys.

I didn't even know what to call myself these days.

You can decide at, I

call myself a nutrition expert, biomedical researcher.

Okay.

I, you know, analyze people's data.

I look at health individually.

Basically focusing on longevity aging.

So yeah, I have to be careful not to call myself a nutritionist.

I've studied nutrition, but I wouldn't call myself a nutritionist.

Okay.

Um, but yeah, I am a huge fan of having a health coach.

I think this is really necessary cuz I can give people the information and the

data are they gonna make the changes?

Someone needs to hold their hand to really show them how so.

Yeah.

It's it's so important.

It's yeah.

What you're doing.

Thank you.

So you mentioned something at the beginning, Vanessa, about

collagen and that we don't have a lot of collagen in our diet.

Where, where does collagen show up in a diet?

Is this kind of bone, like animal related products?

So, and how does that affect vegans?

Yeah, I'm glad you brought this up cuz we can also bust the myth of, is

there a vegan collagen, uh, source and.

Unfortunately, there's not.

So it has to come from animals.

Plants do not make collagen and it comes from specific animal parts, the sources.

So, uh, the lean muscle meats, which is what we tend to eat, um,

from animals is devoid of collagen.

It comes from the skin, the bones, the gelatinous fatty cuts of meat,

which we don't tend to consume a whole lot of, a lot of cultures still.

Do they understand?

They, you know, they value the importance.

Of these parts, uh, of consuming these parts of the animal.

So in Asia, you have a lot of cultures where, you know, they

do consume a lot of bone broth.

They have very collagen enriched diets because they see

the importance chicken soup.

Of course, everyone knows the huge value of that.

But unfortunately this is not in our daily diet anymore.

And we can talk also about why, I mean, I guess this is because of a lot of

the fear of consuming animal fats and mm-hmm, that kind of stuff as well, but

yeah, that's why the best thing to do is to supplement with collagen peptides.

Mm-hmm to get that into your diet.

Yeah.

So you, I told you I have a list.

I have a laundry list.

I know.

So in terms of also, you know, as a supplement and a lot of times, you

know, there's the fear of buying supplements or vitamins that just go

through you and doesn't, they don't actually absorb and you have a, a word.

It's called that you use called bioactive.

And I've heard this term before, and I think that this is probably something

also that our, it would be good for our listeners to understand what does

it really mean to be bioactive and what is the difference between that

and something that's not bioactive.

And if it's.

Something's not bioactive.

Does that mean it doesn't work in the body?

Yeah, essentially not.

So, depending on how high quality the peptides are, how

well they've been processed.

If the, if the collagen, the, the amino acids have been degraded because

the process was not good enough, then they won't be active in your body.

It, it is a very fancy term.

I use it to really highlight that our.

Collagen peptides have been proven to work.

They've been clinically proven to work mm-hmm and that's just

a nice way to describe that.

Okay, let's talk.

Can we talk a little, I'm just loving your ingredients.

So I'm on your formula page and there's another ingredient in your formula.

That's called MSM methyl, cell phone, cell phone name, methyl, methane.

Okay.

I messed up the middle of that, but MSM, what is that?

I'm just curious how that works.

That's a natural sulfur containing compound.

Okay.

And that's needed for building collagen.

It's, it's a supple, it's a fantastic supplement in its own.

Right.

So a lot of people take it on its own for joint pain, inflammation, skin

health, but combining it with the collagen peptides of course, is, uh,

you know, has synergistic effects.

So that's why we, for sure, added in, and it's a at.

A high dose.

So a potent, clinically proven dose, which means tastes gross because

it's, you know, a sulfur compound.

And that's why we do, we had the huge challenge of, um, making

format drinkable, because we do have a few ingredients in there that

at a high dose are pretty nasty.

So we've got Astra, which is, comes from algi and the MSM, which is sulfur.

So, you know, we do flavor it naturally.

And with Stevia.

So nothing, that's going to spike your blood glucose, but yeah, that's

actually the reason why we did it.

Cause we have a lot of people asking for a natural unflavored one it's

like, I don't think you wanna go there.

You're not gonna know you gotta do this every day.

So let's, let's make it enjoyable.

And I have to say, I usually really just genuinely, and

I told you this Vanessa, before.

I genuinely cannot stand these type of drink, like drinks in general, like

taking the supplement in a drink form.

Mm-hmm you gotta twist my arm.

Like it's just none.

None of them are actually gonna be pleasant and EDA is pleasant to drink.

Like I enjoy drinking it.

It's a really, really nice.

Plopping a couple of cubes of ice in there, just sitting outside and

drinking my format and the garden.

I mean, like, I love it.

It's just so delicious.

And it's a cocktail.

Exactly.

I mean add a little bit of alcohol.

No.

Um, but no, it is, it really is delicious.

And I agree.

I mean, there's also, you know, the grape seed is Alsos.

Bitter it's super bitter.

Right.

So,

yeah.

That's true.

Yeah.

Am with the grape seed extract as well.

Yeah.

Which I mean, and again, I mean, just for the listeners

to understand what we're talking about in terms of ingredients.

So we have the collagen, we have the MSM, we have, uh,

Esther, we have the grape seed.

We have Alovera.

I mean, like we know that all of these things, the Q enzyme.

Um, they're the Q 10, you know, so you know that these are

all really good supplements.

Now what I wanna bring up is this, this is something that I tell, and

I know that you'll agree with me.

So, um, I wanna pick your brain about this.

Um, I always tell my clients because a lot of people come up to me and

they're like, and what do you think about the supplements that I'm taking?

Right?

Which a is not my place to tell them, but B is my first question would be.

Did anyone prescribe those to you?

Or are you taking 'em off the top of your head and 99% of the time?

They're like, yeah, I saw a documentary.

I heard this, I read Dr. Google told me basically, right.

Mm-hmm and I'm like, look, choosing a supplement off the top of your

head is like shooting in the air and waiting for a bird to fall.

Right.

What are the odds out of the Trabi supplements that are out there by now?

Like just insane amounts of, of everything.

What are the chances that the three to five ones that you chose to have

are actually going to hit the spot for you and for your needs, right?

Yes.

Everyone probably needs more magnesium.

Yes.

Everyone needs collagen and everyone needs omega three S and you know, there are very

specific ones that, yeah, everyone does.

But not all of them on the market are actually equally high

quality or even good at all.

Right.

Yeah.

And not the amounts that you're taking should really be taken

for your needs, as you said.

So what are your thoughts about what you have put together as a, you know,

a combination of supplements actually,

so it's probably surprising for somebody who

makes a supplement to say that.

I really think that you should be absolutely.

Only supplementing if necessary.

So getting, getting your nutrition from food, real food, like I said, collagen

is an exception because it is devoid in our diet and we really focused the

formula on collagen production and not trying to go into all the different other

pathways, because then, like I said, this is really based on individual health.

So yeah, so I. It's with supplementation.

I think it's, it's such a tricky thing to navigate and it's not, it's

not as harmless as people think.

I mean, there's a lot of dangers of supplementation,

which people aren't aware of.

And yeah, I agree.

So many people are misguided and basically that's what a lot of the work I do

at river is how to supplement wisely.

So yes, I can recommend collagen.

To everyone specifically for matter, because they know it works.

Um, and the dosages are right and we've tested for heavy metals and

toxins, which hardly anyone else does.

Um, surprisingly, um, because this is something you take every day and collagen.

Actually the toxins in the animals accumulate where the collagen is.

So it's important, but it's important to, you know, look at all your blood

biomarkers to actually know how well you're absorbing nutrition to see if you

are deficient in something which could be.

Supplement it, or usually it's just a diet adjustment needed.

And also we look at genes to see how well you are capable

of processing these nutrients.

And that might explain why you need to supplement or adjust your diet.

So we look at a. Extensive panel of genes, which show how well you process

things like a omega three calcium,

iron vitamin

AE, a lot of different nutrients to explain your body, to help you

understand what your body needs and why it's different from other peoples

and why your diet works for you.

Maybe not your husband, you know, we're all expected to eat the

same and it's just not realistic.

We also look at optimal diet types.

So how, how sensitive are you to carbohydrates?

Should you be having a low carbohydrate diet, which everyone's telling you

that you should at the moment, are you more sensitive to fat than others?

It's it's I mean, I think it's so confusing for people to understand or even

trust nutrition these days considering.

What we were told in the nineties is completely different

to what we're being told now.

So I get the confusion and I get that a lot of people have just given

up and just, you know, essentially self diagnosing doing everything on

their own because, um, yeah, it it's, it's confusing, but we look at salt

sensitivity, alcohol response, you know, should you be drinking coffee?

Do you need to feel guilty about these certain things?

Some people actually.

Genetic Ben like the, the genetic predisposition to having benefits

from taking from drinking alcohol.

They're very lucky people, but there are certain genotypes which allow that.

So yeah, it's basically taking the guesswork out of your health and

allowing you to, I like to say supplement wisely and really optimize your diet.

I love that.

That's awesome.

With the genetic, uh, profiling.

We also look at stress and sleep as well.

So how stress resilient you are?

there's a certain genes which allow you to, they call them

warrior versus warrior genes.

So you can understand yourself better.

It's often really makes it easy, cuz they've even shown

scientifically that if people have this information about themselves,

it really does make a difference rather than general information.

Agreed.

I think the, um, when Donna and I both went to IEN the Institute

for integrative nutrition, and I thought it was really interesting.

One of the first, uh, lessons that we had was about the book publishing industry

and how every fad diet has a, you know, a book coming out and people tend to think

that if something is in print, then it is.

It is true.

Right?

And now you could even expand that to the internet.

If I found it on the internet, it's true.

Right.

Or conspiracy theories.

Nothing is true.

Right.

but in general, you know, when we were growing up in the eighties and

the us, and in general, the, even in this late sixties and early seventies,

kind of when the whole health craze kicked off in the states, you know, it.

These books, everything was book related.

Right.

And, um, so I think that.

It's interesting for people to understand that what is put in front of us is,

is what somebody's making money on.

Almost always.

Yeah.

Anything that comes in front of your face by not a, you know, somebody,

you know, is, is somebody trying to make money and that's included.

In all of these health related books or magazines and stuff like that.

So you have to take everything with a grain of salt.

You have to go, okay.

Is this book providing me with references with citations

of studies and other things?

And even then when they're writing a book, the whole point of writing the

book, not the whole point, but most of the point is to make money off of the book.

Even if they're doing it for altruistic purposes, they wanna share the word.

Also a lot of these people who are making these kind of books, uh,

whatever diet or different kind of, um, health related craze, it's something

that they did and worked for them.

Right.

And there's always that feeling again, they, what they told as an I in it's

that you have to make sure that your client understands that just because

they read the book and they do it to the letter and it doesn't work

doesn't mean that they're a failure.

It just means that.

Worked for the person who wrote the book and not for them.

And that's again, like trying to keep all of this in focus when

you're talking with someone.

And that's one of the reasons why I really enjoyed at IEN learning about

like, I think a hundred different types of diets and other things is not

to push the diet or, um, To suggest it even it's to mostly understand

what people have tried in the past.

Oh, I tried Atkins, I tried this, I tried that.

And then we can go, okay, well now we know what doesn't work.

Right.

Because you've tried these things, but it also gives us an understanding

of what, what they've done already.

I have to add to something that you actually just said,

Megan, is that also something that drives me crazy is that I see some.

Experts in the field of health, but not necessarily nutrition.

There's one post that just kind of like really shook me the other day, where

this person is not, has no background in nutrition, but she posted a picture

of two books that she just read and said like, do you need help with like,

you know, you're eating da, da, da.

And I'm like, no, please.

Just no, because reading a couple of books and I read many, many books and

I'm still not saying like, oh look guys, these are all the books that I read.

Please listen to me.

Like, that's not, that's not how it works.

Mm-hmm right.

So yes, books can give you an idea.

Um, but one of the things that I think I, I spoke about even on the first episode

that we did, uh, you, Megan, right?

Is.

I keep saying, like these books even drive me crazy because yes, there's a

lot of good, valuable information there, but it will not work for every person.

Mm-hmm if you have EPIs mean intolerance and you're reading a book about bone, bro.

That's been cooked for 24 to 48 hours.

You're gonna be miserable.

No, you're gonna be fucking miserable because you're just having

so much histamine and you're now reacting to just the histamine.

The bone broth itself is great, but just the histamine that collected

in the 24 to 48 hours of cooking is literally gonna run you down and you

don't even know, and you, you don't understand why it doesn't work for.

Right.

Mm-hmm so we just need to really understand the bioindividuality of each

and every person, which actually brings me to the next question, Vanessa, is, is

there anyone or any, anyone, or any health issues that one might have where you

would say, look Formetta is not for you.

So, uh, I've only had one person who had surgery on their upper intestine

and this didn't make sense cuz then they wouldn't be absorbing the amino acid.

Like, you know, the peptides are amino acids, but otherwise, no.

I mean, like I said, people in their early twenties probably don't really

need to work on their collagen too much.

I have people.

Pregnant breastfeeding taking it.

This is when they need a lot of support.

So no, I haven't come across anyone who shouldn't be bolstering their collagen

and going back to what you cause it's, it's just too much to say on this topic

of books, irritating the shit out of me.

Um, you've gotten me worked up guys I'm like I documentaries are the worst

because I mean books, yes, they always have to have this extreme message, right?

It always has to be extreme cuz that's what sells and that's what

essentially doesn't work for everyone.

But documentaries I find are really, they sensationalize everything and it's, it

drives me nuts and they're so convincing.

So people would come away being so convinced that it's always filled with.

Um,

propaganda.

I was gonna say, I was trying to think of another word of propaganda,

but yeah, it really is propaganda.

I mean, it's, propaganda and things that aren't fact checked and incredibly bias

documentaries are always bias and yeah, cause they can, it is not regulated.

They are allowed to publish whatever.

What do you want?

Um, so, and then we've got the TikTok trends, which are crazy.

You know, people thinking, putting lemon juice in their coffee is

gonna work wonders and everyone's like Downing aloe vera juice

now, cuz of to, and it's I dunno.

Oh man,

look, I gotta keep away for it for my sanity, cuz it.

It hurt.

It does.

Doesn't.

Can you, can you tell us, at least one documentary

which really boils your blood?

she's gonna name 10 now.

I'm trying to think of, oh, what is it?

What was the last vegan documentary that everyone was so convinced by?

Do you remember the name?

Yeah.

Um,

is it the one on Netflix?

Cuz I watched a one about like elite athletes and their,

vegetarian or vegan diets.

Uh, gimme a second

was about this, like this kickboxer who is going through rehabilitation.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That, that's the one.

That's the one.

Yeah.

And um, I've made, I had clients who turned vegan after watching

that and um, because they made it seem so easy and I'm not I'm.

Or for going vegan if you choose to, but it's not as easy as it, you know,

people make out and it, and everyone, like I said, everyone is different

and everyone needs to take care.

I mean, based on your genetics is how well you process vitamin B12 and a meager,

and these things that, you know, are.

Are are, um, deficient in a vegan diet and it has to be done carefully.

And also, I, I know there's no argument about eating meat for, you know,

sustainability and the environment, but in health terms, meat is an, can be an

incredibly nutrient dense source of food.

Um, very efficient in terms of.

A vegan diet is a lot of work, whereas, um, having a really

healthy, um, omnivore diet.

Yeah.

It's got a, they've got a lot of nutrients in too.

So I, I think making meat out to be a villain is not right.

Especially in a country like Switzerland, where you can eat very responsibly,

you know, and avoid factory farming.

Yeah.

I agree.

I think, you know, and, and again, people who know my history know

that I was nearly vegan for a while.

Uh, it.

was Not good for me for certain, uh, reasons.

And I was pretty shook up when I knew that when I found out that I

had to start eating meat or else my health was on the line, basically.

But what I find is problematic also, and again, this could be for

vegan diet or it could be fair.

Any diet, really ketogenic diet or anything is the fact that.

A lot of people do it again without that knowledge.

So they just go, I saw a documentary, I'm gonna start eating vegan.

I'm gonna go to this shop.

Anything that says vegan on it, I'm gonna buy.

And 90% of it is processed crap.

Right?

Mm-hmm so there's that problem there where, you know, it's like me,

my company is called organilicious.

I'm not saying that everything organic is healthy because I'm not, I do not walk

into an organic shop and go, Ooh, cookies.

Ooh.

You know, like chocolate.

It's not gonna be healthy, maybe slightly healthier but it's not gonna actually

be healthy because it is organic.

Right?

Mm-hmm I think there's that, which is problematic.

And again, going back to bio individuality, right.

For me, legumes were devastating.

like, and I lived off of them and it was just terrible.

So, you know, I had to reintroduce meat and My health

is better for it at the moment.

at the end of the day, I'm happy that I made that, you know,

decision upon tests and upon finding out what is right for my body.

So I agree.

I think, you know, I kind of wish I could be vegan because of course there's a lot

of really good things about going vegan.

Yeah.

But at the end of the day, I think every diet works to a certain extent

because every diet will eventually tell you, leave out the garbage.

Okay.

And it's a very extreme word.

I know some people are like, there's no bad food.

I'm like, yes, there is processed, you know, food like products are

not, you know, yes, I eat them too.

Sometimes I'm not saying I sh you should never eat it, but definitely not something

that you need to have on a regular basis.

Um, and all of these diets are gonna tell you that and all of these diet

are gonna say, have more vegetables, which all of us need to have.

Yeah.

I mean, when you put fiber with everything, so they've shown that

saturated fat, which everyone tries to avoid and thinks is

completely evil is absolutely fine when you pair it with fiber.

Yeah.

If you have it alone, then yeah.

It, it can re havoc, but again, with fiber, which is how it

should be in a balanced meal.

It's fine.

And it's also about how you cook meat, right?

So they've shown.

Yes, grilling meat on a barbecue.

You know, that chard meat there, there a lot of toxic stuff comes out of this.

Mm-hmm into our body, but you can avoid this by marinating

meat, completely avoid it.

Marinate the meat and lemon juice.

You neutralize all advanced glycation end products they're called and other.

Toxins, which are formed upon grilling the meat.

So there are ways to, like I said, source the meat responsibly, cook it properly.

So it's not toxic that you're avoiding all of these harmful things, which

are out there, vegan propaganda,

And vegans, we're not picking on you.

We can say exactly the same.

Not at all about keto can say the same thing about everything.

Being vegan is great, but it has to be done responsibly

and it's a lot of work.

And I think people who do that are amazing, but I'm saying

people who want to eat meat, you know, there is a way to do it.

Vanessa, I am curious, cuz I have, my background is in

the science background as well.

And when you say that you've developed this and I know it developing

something takes a long time.

I am super curious on number one.

How did you get started in Switzerland developing something like this?

How long did it take?

What kind of labs or manufacturing are you doing?

Because you also, everything is manufactured in Switzerland.

Would you mind like, just talking a little bit about that

process because as a consumer.

I would love to know.

Yeah.

It was a long process finding the right producer.

It was harder than finding a life partner.

I'll tell you, I tell you it took so many.

It took years.

So I, but I didn't give up.

And it really that's where I really learned about how dirty

the supplement industry can be too, because a lot of places were

not willing to go to the lengths.

That I demanded I wasn't gonna cut corners.

I wasn't going to sacrifice anything.

So it was quite shocking to me that it was so hard to actually produce this product.

I did, did not anticipate that, but you know, learned a good lesson and

glad that I didn't compromise because I'm very proud of the product and,

you know, I, I can stand by it and it's exactly what I wanted to make.

I essentially made this product for myself.

That's really how it all started.

I was noticing the effects of aging as one does in their thirties, having

kids, you feel like you're just undergoing premature aging at its

fullest with sleep death probation.

I come from Australia, so I am super sun damaged from

being a kid without sunscreen.

And if you notice how fair skin I am, I. I was not meant to grow up

there so with that much sun, so that has taken its toll as well.

And so, as I said, I really wanted to slow down the aging

process and all of that stuff.

And I became very convinced of collagen from the clinical research papers.

And I wanted to take this.

Myself, I didn't set out to make one.

Um, I was really disappointed with what was on the market based on everything

such as, you know, transparency.

Do they test for toxins?

Heavy metals is the dose, right?

Why is there sugar in the supplement?

Why does sugar need to be in a collagen supplement, sugar breaks down collagen.

Why is there preservatives?

These are pro aging.

So all of these stupid ingredients, and couldn't basically not finding

the formulation that I wanted.

So.

Made my own for myself and realized, uh, you know, then started sharing this

with friends and, uh, realized that this is something I should concentrate on.

This is, this is something that I want more people to take mm-hmm and

therefore went on the journey of finding a producer who would yeah.

Who I could work with in Switzerland mm-hmm and yet this took a long time.

Like I said, it was like a long dating process and long painful dating

process, which did take a long time.

Oh, good.

And how long has Formetta been on the market?

So two years now.

Yeah, we launched in the pandemic, which seemed not the best time,

but I really didn't wanna wait.

And really, when you think about it and everyone was thinking about

their health at that time, you know, I launched on my web shop, with my

small budget, it's not like I could afford a huge launch party anyway.

So I just, I just, I just went for it.

And have watched it grown over that amount of time.

So it's really, you know, it's a startup, I didn't seek funding or

anything like that or investors.

So I really funded this with my own money.

So I started off with a small budget, which all went into production.

I really left nothing for marketing cause you guys know me I'm not a

salesperson or a business person.

All I care about is an effective product.

So I really have relied on it, spreading through word of mouth.

I think that will be the, the best way to do it with a product that actually works.

Yeah.

And I noticed that you ship for free in Switzerland.

Thank you very much.

Do you ship internationally?

Oh, man, I tell you, this is the hardest thing to do

for a small business is shipping internationally and working this out.

So I. I in the process of trying to do this, I, I do it.

I can ship UK and Europe.

I've organized that, but I'm, it's, it's, I'm trying to look for maybe an

international retail partner, which would be easier to work with than us

shipping it to the consumer directly.

Customs, all that stuff is very difficult for a small business.

Which is unfortunate.

I feel like that's really become a bottleneck is how to work this out.

So, but yeah, I'm trying

It's a shame because obviously the us and Canada is such a big market

for supplements and it would be really good if you could get over there.

But yeah, there's a lot of, you know, other things I'm sure you would have to

do as a small business, but I bought some.

To this morning.

So I'm looking forward to the shipment coming in the mail, because I looked at

it and I'm like, yeah, I need this anyway.

Cuz I was looking at Coen enzyme Q1 and no, I didn't look, I didn't know about

MSM yet, but no, I'm very excited to, to get my little package in the mail.

So you not taking collagen yet?

No, maybe I just started, I, you know, honestly I have my little vitamin

pack and I know I take omega threes and magnesium and something for my eyes.

Because my eyes, like when I hit 40, my eyes were like, fuck you.

Same, same how weird is that though?

I, I was wearing contacts my entire, since like 14 or 15 years

old, I was wearing contacts every day.

I'd never slept in my contacts, but I wore them every day.

And the year I turned 40 almost to the month, like my eyes just dried up.

Oh, I can't wait.

I'm 40 next year.

So I'm looking forward to the . You're a baby.

Thanks for the warning.

Thanks for the warning.

So I'm wearing my contacts now, but I will take

them out immediately afterwards.

So now I, I found out which contacts I can wear, but my

point is, is like my eyes just.

Got really dry.

So I'm trying to pay attention to my eyes and things like that, but I'm basically

doing what Donna's doing, kind of like shooting from the hip and going, okay.

I know my joints need a little bit more support.

Okay.

So I'm gonna take, but I, my point is, is I was looking in collagen, especially, I

think probably cuz when we first triggered you as somebody who we wanted to talk

with, I looked at your website back then and then I just was like, oh, okay.

Collagen.

I should think about this.

Um, but I'm glad I ordered it because I, I like.

These kind of supplements where, I mean, I eat a relatively good diet, but when

going back to the, what you're talking about, getting most of your nutrients

in food and part of the problem there is even if you eat a really good diet, the

soil that all of these plants are being grown in is not as nutrient dense as it

used to be 50, 60, a hundred years ago.

Yeah.

So even if you're eating a really good balanced rainbow diet of

fruits and vegetables, I still think that it doesn't hurt to take an

additional something on top of that.

I was curious, I take athletic greens.

Have you heard of athletic greens?

Cuz I think they're come from out from New Zealand actually

. Vanessa: Yeah, they've done very well.

I mean, they're really.

Spreading all around the world.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so I, they should be a podcast sponsor.

I feel like they sponsor a lot of podcasts.

, that's how I know them because they're really sponsored by flood screen.

Yeah.

Ah, yeah.

I don't know how I heard about them, but I've been taking it for over a

year now and I don't take it every day.

I actually just take it on days that I work out

It's pretty much a multivitamin in a drink form.

Yeah.

I think it's got a bit of bacterial culture in it.

Mm-hmm yeah, it's got some of that.

Some probiotics, snap collagen.

Um, and I, I highly doubt you're taking collagen cuz you would know because

you gotta take quite a high dose and if it's in a pill form, forget it.

You're taking 10 pills.

Yeah.

No I'm not taking math.

Yeah.

And if, if it isn't a pill form, I'm always like you're

not getting enough collagen.

Yeah.

Um, should be taking more,

Vanessa.

I have a question for you.

We started a few years ago actually, before the pandemic, the doctor that I

worked with back then, uh, recommended that we take collagen, which made

sense we wanted to do it anyways.

So I started taking it with the boys.

And we both got the runs from it and it took us a couple of days to figure out

that it was actually, that's what it was.

And we realized that we're really kind of reacting to it badly.

Like it was not fun.

What could have been the case there that would have had us react so badly to it.

And what would make Formetta different in that case?

So, um, That's interesting.

I mean, that can happen because basically when you take collagen, your body is

prioritizing where it should go first.

And so even though people want the immediate plumping of the skin and the

growing hair or whatever, it's gonna go to where the body needs it first.

So just as we see in.

Diseases like scurvy, which is a collagen deficiency that your body, you know,

you'll start losing the teeth first and the hair before the, you know, the

internal organs then start to deteriorate.

So, and then it's the reverse if you're taking collagen.

Um, so to me that sounds like.

Some gut healing was probably going on.

If you persisted with it, I think it would have stopped eventually.

Like you would've had to, you've probably should have started with a

very small dose and let your body really get used to it and then increased.

So, I, out of a lot of customers.

I've really only had probably the two people report that they had

diarrhea or like a tummy issues.

And after a few weeks no more.

And they basically took half a Sasha instead of one.

And, um, worked up to being fine.

Okay.

Just for the record, yours did not give me the shits.

It was just that other one.

Although that's maybe they had something else in it, then

no, it wasn't.

I immediately check.

I wouldn't even, I would not have even bought it.

And the, and my doctor knows that as well,

yeah, that's what I mean, like out of the thousands and

thousands of format we've sold, it's very rare to have that reaction.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm , could it be that it, because you also have other

supplements in there that help absorb it better, so they, it doesn't kind

of like go through you as much as just

yeah.

I mean, that's part of the reason why I think supplements are so can

be either not effective or sometimes dangerous is because when meant,

always have things in a food matrix.

Aren't we, like I said, with the saturated fat, it needs to not.

In an isolated form, it needs to be with fiber and things

which slow down its absorption.

So, yes, I mean, you could say that that helps for sure.

And that's basically a, that's why I'm not a huge fan of

collagen peptides on its own.

Because we know that other things are needed to make collagen, you know, of

course everyone knows vitamin C, so that's just a, a no brainer to have that in.

And we have a, a natural source, which is of course going to be

better absorbed than a synthetic.

Form as well.

Excellent.

Yeah.

And, and I love what you said about the whole combination of things.

I think a lot of people don't understand what a different it actually makes.

To have, you know, your fat with the veggies or your, you know, like

the meat with the veggie or like just the combination of things, you

know, just a combination of things.

A lot of people come up to me and they're like, what vitamins

am I getting from this meal?

And what am I, you know?

And I was like, I don't, it doesn't actually matter.

Yeah, of course it matters, you know, to a cellular level.

Of course it matters.

But at the end of the day, you wanna make sure.

Not to just have vitamin C, because back in the day, we're

like, take your vitamin C.

You're gonna be healthier.

Vitamin C needs other vitamins to actually kinda, and minerals and everything to

kind of like work better in your body.

And we need all of them.

Right.

But we need to know that like, Your iron.

That's just like, most people already know your iron is gonna

get absorbed better with vitamin C.

Right.

There are definitely other, uh, combinations there that we need to

understand if it's vitamin D with vitamin K, if it's, you know, like just everything

at the end of the day, just everything.

So what, I always try to tell people as well, and, and tell me

if I'm, if I'm wrong, is that don't try to focus on just that one.

Mineral slash vitamins slash whatever that you need, but rather make sure to

eat the rainbow, make sure to get all of these, uh, variety of things in your

body and not just get stuck on three to five vegetables that you constantly eat,

but really kind of make sure to have a variety of foods, whether it's proteins

or legumes or, or vegetables or fruit.

Yeah, diversity is key.

Isn't it.

And they've shown that with, I know you guys know a lot about gut health,

about the diversity of the, the micro floor in your gut and how they

need a diverse, uh, range of fiber.

So a lot of people are, I guess it's always about shortcuts.

People want a shortcut and they're trying to just, you know, the

fiber supplement, you know, and this is just not the way to go.

You've gotta just have a range of.

Food and essentially it's great.

We we're encouraged to have a, you know, a diverse diet in a sense, and not just

keep eating the same monotonous diet.

Mm-hmm exactly.

I'm curious.

And I don't know if you have a good answer for this, but we talked about supplements

in your, you know, your findings.

When you went to look for a producer, a partner, and kind of the

disappointment you had when you were doing your research for yourself.

The level of quality in the products, how would you recommend our listeners?

So people who do wanna take other supplements for whatever reason, if

a doctor prescribed, or in general, they have had good luck or good, you

know, good results with supplements.

What's the best way for them to figure out which manufacturer or, you

know, company is doing a good job.

and do you ha do you actually recommend a specific company in your research

that you thought does a really good job with manufacturing supplements?

Such a good question because I, it is a lot of work.

Isn't it to do your due diligence on every single supplement.

It would be great if yeah.

You just have a brand that you can trust and it takes, all of the work out for you.

It really depends on what supplement it is.

And for, you know, each of my clients, if I'm sourcing supplements,

I, I really look into the brand.

I write to them, I ask them the questions I want and if they don't

write back, then that's already.

A red flag, cuz they should provide you with the information, certificates,

everything I, and I love when I have customers or pre customers write

to me and ask me questions about, you know, where is this sourced?

And they ask me lots of different questions.

So I do know people or other people are doing that.

I'm not the only.

Weirdo who's writing to these companies.

so, and I always write back, cuz I appreciate that they're

taking that time to do that.

It's a tough one in Switzerland because I tend to usually order

them overseas sometimes as well.

Mm-hmm

I mean a thorn is very good.

Thorn is a good supplement brand.

I think everyone here takes Bergstein, which I just don't think is that great.

Thank you.

Oh my god.

I love you so much.

I can tell you so many stories about them.

Yeah.

They're not as Swiss as people think.

I mean, . Yeah, I'll just say that I don't wanna be in some defamation

trial now or something well,

we'll stop here, but

I'm really glad to maybe you have to bleep that, that, uh, company out.

But I think I just get frustrated that everyone really holds that up

as the, the best supplement brand.

And I don't think it is here.

And then it's very hard to get access to the other one.

So I, yeah, I do often have to order internationally for a specific.

Thing as well.

What kind of questions are you asking the manufacturers?

I know you mentioned certificates.

So are there some quality related ISO specific ISO standards

that the supplements companies?

Well, it depends on what they're manufacturing.

So for example, you know, if, when we look at when, uh, and I, I

mainly did a lot of due D. When I was doing the collagen formulation

when I wanted to find one myself.

So I was asking, have you tested for heavy metals and toxins?

Can you show me this?

Okay.

That kind of stuff.

Yeah.

So is it are most supplements?

I mean, uh, obviously heavy metals are more prevalent in animal based supplements

because they're like the concentration.

I think that's what people don't understand is that they, everything

gets more concentrated cuz that's what it is, is based pens.

I mean, I think a lot of.

Adaptogens are also coming under fire as well.

Like mushrooms absorb a lot of heavy metals too.

Okay.

And so, uh, that's a good, um, question to ask a company too, if they've shown that,

you know, it's toxin free the mushrooms.

I don't know if you guys take adaptogens or any mm-hmm, anything like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's good.

Well, thank you, Vanessa.

I think we're at the end of our time.

This is so insightful for me.

I didn't get through all my questions, but that just means we have to have

you back for another, around two.

Yeah.

Thanks so

much.

Look, that's my fault.

I'm sorry.

I went off on tangents, but yeah, it's too much to talk about.

Isn't it?

I'm too excited to be able to talk about all these topics with you guys.

we're tangent

Queens.

Oh yeah.

We love tangents.

That's all we do.

Great.

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You'll find links to the format of website and to our

Facebook page in the show notes.

All right.

So thanks everyone.

And we will see you in the next episode.

Thank you.

Bye everyone.

Bye.