Welcome to the latest episode of Fibonacci, the Red Olive data podcast where we speak to Carly Lund. Carly is the Chief Digital and Data Officer at YSC Consulting, a boutique professional services firm that specialises in leadership consulting. YSC helps organisations identify and develop the leaders they need to achieve their business strategies and it has been working on a massive programme of data work.

A chartered psychologist, Carly has a proven record of building, developing and leading global consulting teams that design and implement talent management solutions. We chat about the sophisticated data modelling and data science programme of work for which Carly is responsible at YSC, how automation has improved her organisation’s data quality by 100% and how data is opening new services and solutions for YSC's future business strategy.

Here are the topics with their time codes:

• How data has interacted with psychology in the past (2m 03s)
• Integrating data with YSC’s services and building data assets (4m 54s)
• Bringing the organisation with you while implementing change (7m 38s)
• How Covid and clients have driven transformation (11m 53s)
• The importance of repeating and reenforcing your messages (14m 36s)
• Building workflows to capture data consistently to build data sets (15m 09s)
• Using existing data to build efficiencies and improve services (16m 52s)
• The importance of using external data consultants (21m 54s)
• Benefits of data-driven conversations with clients (24m 10s)
• Excitement around personalisation of services (25m 44s)
• The future role of data in understanding people in organisations (27m 44s)
• When people are happy to provide data, and when they are not (30m 29s)
• Marrying data skills with commercial ability (33m 0s)
• Skills that the leaders of the future will need to thrive (34m 30s)

- Hello, and welcome to Fibonacci,

the Red Olive Data Podcast,

where we hear from leading specialists

and get their take on the industry.

I'm your host, Nicky Rudd.

Today I'm joined by Carly Lund,

chief digital and data officer at YSC Consulting,

a boutique professional services firm

that specialises in leadership consulting.

YSC helps organisations identify and develop

the leaders they need to achieve their business strategies,

now and into the future.

The company was founded in London in 1990,

and over the past three decades,

has expanded to include more than 225 professionals

serving more than 20 markets across EMEA

the Americas and Asia Pacific,

across a wide range of industries and sectors.

It has also been working on a massive data programme of work.

A chartered psychologist, Carly has a proven record

of building developing and leading

effective global consulting teams that can design

and implement talent management solutions

that meet clients' strategic goals.

We chat about the sophisticated data modelling

and data science programme of work

for which Carly is responsible at YSC,

how automation has improved her organization's data quality

by 100% and how data is opening new services

and solutions for YSC's future business strategy,

thus find out more.

(upbeat music)

- So YSC is a leadership strategy consultancy.

And basically what that means is we help organisations

to understand whether they have the right leaders

to deliver their strategy.

And we do that in a number of different ways.

We work with leaders on the individual level,

ensure that organisations have the right leaders,

but also to develop those leaders.

We work with teams of leaders

and we also work at the organisational level

to ensure that we've got the right culture,

set all of those things up for success.

- And has that been a business

that has been very sort of manual

in the past, would you say?

- Yes, incredibly.

So if we think about kind of psychology in general,

there's kind of two sides to it.

I always say there's two sides to psychology.

There's the side that is the very

sort of people-centric side to it,

really wanting to kind of understand people in more depth,

work with people and help people.

And then there's the other side of it on the other extreme,

which is the kind of the statistics and the data,

and the science that sits behind a lot of the theory.

YSC is very much on the,

or has been traditionally on the side

of the kind of the people centric piece.

So we've got some absolutely incredible consultants

who work with leaders and teams

and with our clients, you know,

and do really kind of in depth psychological work.

And that that's traditionally, until COVID hit,

traditionally was in a room

running one to one interviews

or coaching sessions or whatever that might be.

So the need or the presence of technology

and data within that process

has been relatively limited,

up until the kind of the last few years I would say.

- Your role, how has that sort of changed then,

over the last couple of years?

- I actually joined YSC,

I joined YC about five and a half years ago,

and I actually joined as a consultant

in the European business.

So I was actually working with leaders

either to find, you know,

see whether they're the right match for roles

or I was coaching executives, that type of stuff.

And so my role changed quite significantly

when I moved into what was then

the innovation team at YSC.

So prior to joining YSC,

I spent 10 years with a company called SHL,

who developed psychometric tests

for kind of recruitment basically.

And so within that particular organisation,

within that 10 years,

I was working kind of started off as a psych.

So I was developing the assessment tests.

So things like personality tests, ability tests,

situation judgement tests, that type of stuff.

So I was kind of developing those,

got a lot of experience in product management type stuff,

but I also worked at the client facing side as well.

So I sort of bridged the gap

between the real technical element of what we did

in terms of building the product,

but also how we worked with clients

so that they got the best out of that particular product.

And so when I joined YSC,

it was to do something completely different.

And I lasted a year before I went back to actually,

I wanna go and develop up products

and services and do something more creative,

more directly linked to the business

and the kind of the commercial success of the business.

I really get a kick out of seeing the impact

of what I'm doing and seeing how that delivers value.

And I felt that I needed more of that in my role.

So I went back into the innovation team.

And at that point, actually,

I was asked to look after a particular service.

And when you look after a particular service,

you're always looking at well,

what's the next thing that we need to do

with this particular service?

How do we make this better for our clients?

Are there things that our competitors are doing

that we should be thinking about?

Where's the market going, how do we evolve this?

And so where it actually got to was the obvious thing to do

with this particular service

was actually to bring technology to it

and to bring to data to it.

And so I started off doing that really.

I started off kind of evolving that proposition out,

seeing what that would look like

if we started to digitise it,

if we started to make more of the data that was available,

how would that evolve the proposition?

And it kind of all went from there.

So what we sort of realised from that point

is that there was a much bigger opportunity

around technology and data

than we were first recognising.

And so it soon became apparent

that actually what we needed to do was to go out,

find a technology partner and find a data science partner

and, you know, one who was tasked

with building out our technology platform

and one who was tasked with helping us think through, well,

what can we start to do with the data that we have

to really start to make this technology

really quite exciting for us as a business?

And so from there,

I stepped into my role now as chief digital

and data officer for YSC.

And so really I'm looking after the entire strategy

to digitalize our entire client offering,

but also to build out our data asset because you know,

the one thing that's really exciting about this opportunity

is how can we start to use the data

that we have on leaders, their teams,

and the broader organisation to really start to deliver

some personalised insight

that can really turn the dial

in terms of actually the change

that we can initiate in an organisation.

- Has it been a real learning curve?

I mean, you obviously digital and data at the moment,

but had you worked with data sets and stuff beforehand?

- Yeah, so I'm a real data geek.

And I was actually thinking about this

in preparation for speaking to you

and where this all came from,

but I've always really loved data.

I've always really loved being able to get to an answer

or at least closer to an answer.

You know, I studied psychology,

I qualified as an occupational psychologist

and the bit that I always loved was the statistics

and the data within it,

and really getting closer to an understanding

of human behaviour through the use of data and tools

like psychometrics and things like that.

I, and so, when I started off at SHL,

that was what I was doing.

I was designing the items for the test,

but I was also using data to make sure

that they were reliably measuring

what they were supposed to measure, that they were valid

in the use of an organisational context.

So yes, I can sit with a data set

and analyse data and get to a kinda,

get to the answers that I need to get to.

The data skills have moved on significantly

since the time that I was building psychometrics.

I'm in awe of some of the skill sets

that I'm now seeing come through.

But at the base level, I know what to do with the data set.

(laughing)

- Once you've got that sort of end game if you like,

that end project, you know that you want,

how have you managed to facilitate getting what has been

kind of quite a, I suppose,

traditional organisation in that sort of, like you say,

is the assessment of people.

And I imagine there's an awful lot of forms

and data collection and stuff

at different stages of the journey.

How have you managed to sort of bring the whole organisation

on board to understand and has the project

sort of been involved by senior teams

and stuff like that?

'Cause they can see the benefit.

- I think the answer to this question,

it really is multifaceted and there isn't one thing

that you do to really make this any easier.

You know, there's lots of different strategies

that we've had to deploy to really start

the change process with YSC.

And like I say, we are very early on

in this particular journey.

We're 12 months on from having our MVP in market.

So there is plenty more to do and there's plenty more to do

with the business to help them understand the possibility

and the opportunity of what we're building.

But I think on a base level, yes,

having senior stakeholders on board,

understanding the benefits of what you're doing,

both from a client perspective,

also from a consultant perspective.

So from a internal efficiency type perspective

and then in terms of, well actually,

what's the value to us as an overall business

and what we are trying to achieve

from a strategic point of view?

So there's multi levels that you need to get

the stakeholders on board with and understanding.

And then I think there's a couple of other things

that have been really important

in terms of building momentum within YSC,

one of them is just making sure

that you are talking about it a lot

with lots of different people.

We have something that we call a home day

where all of the business

have to not have client stuff on that day.

And they tune in for a global update and they have their own

local updates and all of that sort of stuff.

So it's big set pieces like that

that you're taking advantage of to make sure

you've got a slot in and make sure

you're giving updates in your feeding information.

We have a monthly newsletter that goes out,

which gives information on where we are,

but also asks for input.

We work with consultants and their clients

in user groups to really understand

actually is what we're building really good?

And actually is it fitting a need and kind of testing out

that user experience bit,

but also that's another touch point for people

to kind of see it, to influence it,

to really take it on board as something that they own too.

And I think the one thing that I try to fight

against a little bit is,

this isn't my thing that I'm building.

This is our thing that we are building

for the benefit of our business.

And actually, we've all got a role to play in that

and product development especially,

involves everybody in the business.

You can't sit in a really siloed team with a closed door,

just building something and expect it to be successful.

It takes obviously input from people

in the business and from our clients to design it,

but it also takes input from finance to help us price.

It takes input from our commercial team to help us sell it.

It takes input from our HR team

to think about how we build capability around it.

Every single person in the business needs to be involved.

And I think if you can get that right,

I think then everybody feels ownership over it

and feels some responsibility

and accountability for making it successful.

And I'm not saying we get all of these things right

all of the time, we absolutely don't.

But like I was saying earlier,

there's lots of different approaches that we have to take.

And one of those is who we involve in what stage.

- It's really interesting.

I think whenever there's a big

sort of technology step change

and I would hope to hope that your organisation

is actually ahead of the curve

is compared to an awful lot,

but there is a whole other layer of communications

isn't there to make sure that people see the benefit

rather than just change for change's sake.

Is that something that you feel like it was managed better

just because of the nature of your business.

And so people could see that clearer

than maybe other organisations,

are there any sort of learnings that you think,

actually that was really good that we did that

we got those people in at that time that, you know,

if anybody was listening to this

and they were thinking of doing the same sort of process

they could take on board.

- Again, I don't think I can pinpoint

any one thing because I think it's been a combination

of things that has really helped us,

even down to the fact that COVID has helped us

because suddenly the world was going digital

in one way or another.

So that helped our consultants

and our broader business realise that actually,

even if they didn't quite understand the ins and outs

of everything that was being built and developed,

they were thankful that there was investment

and work going on to move us in a digital direction.

And I think that was the first win really,

was that I think as a broader business,

it was suddenly recognised that this was the right thing

for us to do, I think it existed in pockets before then.

I think COVID did help shift

the mindset of a lot of people.

And then frankly, I think the other thing

that always really helps

is that there's clients asking for this.

So, we are under increasing pressure

during proposal processes

and in conversations with our clients to say, well actually,

what innovation are you doing? How are you future focused?

Where's the technology elements to this?

How can I understand the impact

that you are going to deliver in our business?

And the only way to prove the impact

or to start to at least show the impact,

is by ensuring data is at the heart

of our consulting processes.

So, you know, I think the more we get asked for it,

the more that the understanding builds

that is something that we need to do.

But yeah know, I think our CEO

has been absolutely brilliant at being very focused

on what are the things that are gonna shift the dial for us.

And he's been absolutely consistent in messaging

into the business regularly that, you know,

this is one of our core strategic priorities.

So keeping it front of mind for everyone,

they've only got through strategic priorities to remember,

this is one of them.

(laughing)

- It's pretty clear.

- Yeah, so it's been pretty clear from that point of view.

So, you know, like I say,

there's a few different things that come together.

I wouldn't pinpoint any one thing.

And what I would really recommend is if someone

is trying to do a programme of work like this,

that you down and you really map out

who are all of our stakeholders,

what's the messaging that they need

to hear to get them on board?

Where are our forums for doing that?

How do we make sure that we're regularly

interacting at those forums?

How do we build really good one-on-one relationships

with key people who are the people

that are gonna drive the kind of the change here,

who ones that are always early adopters

that we can get in front of,

nothing proves value like a client win.

So as soon as you get some client wins,

you know, taking that back out to the business,

showing the difference that is made,

showing the impact of it,

sharing the feedback that the client's been giving,

that sort of stuff is really being proactive,

jumping on every opportunity.

And one learning for me has been,

just because you say it once,

don't expect that to be a given.

(laughing)

- Yeah, reinforce, reinforce, reinforce.

- Reinforce, reinforce, yeah exactly.

- Have there been other sort of added benefits from it?

I'm just thinking for that, you were mentioning

about the kind of looking at the technology processes

and trying to be more efficient.

So I'm guessing that you've put in

sort of more automated processes that have helped with that.

- Yeah.

- Can you give me some examples of those and also with that,

having those in place has kind of improved

your data quality overall, do you think?

- 100%, so we have have a core service that we deliver,

which is our leadership assessment service.

And what that looks like is a consultant

sitting with a leader for four hours

to help understand whether they are suitable

for a particular role or a particular promotion,

or actually as a kind of purely developmental exercise

to understand, well,

what's the kind of required here

and how could we help you either

through coaching or something like that.

And if you look at that end to end process that we deliver,

when we really broke that down,

what we realised is that actually,

we were only actually capturing 20% of the data

that was available to us through that process

in any kind of consistent, coherent way.

So the real aim of that digitalization process

that we went through to help understand

what we needed to do with the assessment piece

was where are all of our touch points in terms

of the ability to collect data at any point

through the upfront briefing with the client,

through the interview process itself,

through the feedback session at the other end of it,

it was really every single point.

Where's our opportunity to collect data

and then thinking through, well, okay,

how do we need to build this workflow

so that we make sure that we capture that data?

And we don't just capture that data.

We capture it in a way that is consistent

so that we can leverage it in the future.

So that was kind of the future focus piece.

And by putting in that workflow, we actually up

to now capturing 80% of the data that's available to us.

So it's made an massive, massive difference

in terms of the type of data that we've now got flowing in

and the type of information that we can start to combine

to really understand the leader in much more depth.

And then the other part of it was an efficiency part of it.

You know, there is a core piece

of our delivery that takes up an credible amount of time.

And through working with data

that we already had in existence,

we've been able to build elements into that process

through kind of predictive modelling

that delivers efficiency for the consultant

throughout that process.

So the consultant now has some time back,

just the efficiencies that been made

both by using actually like kind of existing data

that we had, but also through actually

building some efficiencies into the overall

end to end process.

There's lots more to do there.

And what's actually benefiting that

is the fact that we are now collecting a lot more data.

And so we can start to run that back

into some of the models that we've built.

We can start to broaden out some of the models

that we've been building.

And so actually we are probably looking at about a 10%

time saving at the moment for any one consultant,

which is pretty good across the number of these assessments

that we would deliver every year.

But we could probably push that up

far more to something like 50%,

which would be hugely valuable.

- And is that the actual system

that you've built then, looking across

those different sort of data sets and then coming out

with this person needs to go to next.

So actually it doesn't all have to be

the consultant leading it,

but just being able to actually look at that information

and then do kind of the best practise

and advice and stuff like that from it.

- It's all about giving the consultant

more insight from the data that we have,

to help them give more back to the client.

So, you know, one of the exercises

that we've really out to go through is thinking through

what's the piece that is really the value

that we're getting out of the consultant,

and then what's the value we're getting out

of the technology and the data

and bringing those two things apart

initially to say, actually,

if we look at the services that we deliver,

this is a unique value that a human delivers

in that particular kind of process.

And here's where we can get some benefits out of data

and technology to really superpower that human.

And that's really what we're looking to do.

You know, we're looking to improve

the quality of our service,

improve the quality of our insight through our consultants,

through the use of technology and data.

- Obviously Red Olive has been

sort of involved with you with some of that

sort of predictive modelling work.

We talked a little bit earlier about that kind of,

bringing technology on board

and having to have a layer of communication

so that people have an understanding

of why you are doing things.

I think predictive modelling and sort of data science

is kind of apart from being incredibly exciting,

you can sort of see, I think possibly,

might blow some people's minds

as to kind of, you know, what's possible.

How have you come across the sort of challenge

of explaining that to your team

and sort of bringing them along for the journey.

Cause you've obviously got a kind of,

I know I can see where this is going,

but I'd imagine there are quite a few people

within the organisation

that just wouldn't even think like that

until they have their handheld

and they were pulled a little bit along the way.

- I think it depends how you frame it.

I mean, in some ways

what you are doing with the data

and the kind of the intricacies of that

and the models that you're using or the process

that you've gone through is sort of less important

to the broader business and to our clients actually,

what's more important for them is what's the problem

it's gonna solve for me?

What's the question it's gonna answer.

How does this make what we are doing better?

And I think it's always framing it in those terms

and really thinking it through from that perspective

and being able to explain that perspective to people,

that is far easier.

I think there is a general level of acceptance

that we have an awful lot of data.

It's very special data

and that we should be leveraging it in some way.

I think everyone's quite happy to let me

and my team solve that particular problem,

but what they wouldn't want

is for us to be working away at something.

And then they don't see the value at it

when it hits them or they can't explain it

in terms of the value that it delivers to our clients.

That's the bit we've had to work really hard on.

Actually doing the maths is the easy bit,

that kind of takes care of itself.

You know, when we are working with Red Olive,

we get very excited about what we can do

and what's the possibility and kind of sharing ideas

and all of that sort of stuff.

That's the exciting bit, you know,

that's the bit where we can ideate

in terms of where we want to get to.

The tricky bit is then that translation into,

well, what's the so what for the business

and what's the so what for our clients,

and that's the bit that you really have to work on.

So I don't find myself having to explain

any in depth predictive modelling,

'cause I think we'll lose people

as soon as we start to get into that conversation.

I think they like to hear things like, you know,

and I think everybody makes the assumption

that if you say words like artificial intelligence

and machine learning,

that you know, you're going in the right direction.

So I think they like to hear

that that's what we are looking at

and that's how we're kind of moving forward,

but I wouldn't want to sit and kind of describe all the ins

and outs of that, I don't think that would work.

- Do you think it's been helpful having an external

data science expert working with you

to, you know, sort of really look at that

and break that down?

Do you think you could have done that without having

kind of somebody else who's out outta the business?

- No, I think it's been incredibly helpful.

My team are all pretty new into the business

and have come from other places,

and that's been helpful in that they can see

the opportunities in a way that I think sometimes

when you've been in the business for a long time,

you start to get a little bit ingrained into the culture

and kind of what's the norm there type thing,

but haven't had the in depth experience

or expertise that Red Olive obviously brought.

So I think, you know, having an external partner for this

has not only made sure that we have that real fresh,

completely independent view on actually,

what is it that we've got and what can we do with it?

I think that's been hugely beneficial.

I think the other thing that I always find

from working with partners on things like this

is that they're also working

with different people across different industries,

in different types of organisations

and all of that sort of stuff.

And I think that's where it becomes really interesting

as well is actually just because

it's not another leadership consultancy or whatever,

actually what is being done elsewhere

and how do we bring that in

and what data do we have to make that possible?

I always find that really interesting as well,

just benefiting and you know,

having been a consultant myself,

I get clients ask me that a lot as well.

What are you doing with other clients, and, you know,

it's hugely beneficial to hear that sometimes.

- That learning of best practise

from kind of wider industries is always helpful isn't it?

Particularly when you are sort of looking

at the amount of sophisticated data modelling

that is actually going on within your business,

there is a tendency,

I think sometimes for people to be kind of quite siloed,

even just within data projects,

when you are then trying to open them up

and make them organisation wide

to sort of see how the data flows and what benefits

can you get from it.

That can be quite a challenge I think.

So I was gonna ask about what the project has meant

for future proofing the business.

You obviously mentioned about the fact that you came at it

from a, we'd like to see if we can do this as a new service,

how has it transformed the work that you do

and what you're gonna be offering in the future?

- So I think we are very early in that journey

and just starting to see some of the benefits

that are coming through, you know, like I said,

we've set ourselves up to collect the data now

that we didn't necessarily have before.

So it is gonna take us a while to build out

the volume of data that we need to do

some of the more exciting transformational things

that I think is totally possible.

You know, like I said earlier,

I think we're already starting to see

some of the efficiencies come through

in terms of the delivery.

I think just us having a data strategy,

understanding how we want to build up our data,

the different data that we want to start to bring in

and all of that sort of stuff

just sets us up to have a very different conversation

I think with clients.

So I think we're already starting to see that as well

and starting to kind of move the dial

in terms of having more data driven

conversations with our clients,

using their data to open up possibility with them.

And I think, you know,

even just with this small starting point,

that's already happening.

And I think, the more that we can do that,

the more that we can get data back in

and the better that we can make that loop as well.

- You mentioned about AI and machine learning.

And I think at the moment,

it's a really interesting space

with your business in particular,

sort of what roles an actual physical human being

could do and what can be done by AI.

What are you most excited about,

about the kind of data space in the future?

- It depends where you sit on the spectrum

of actually is everything just algorithm and data,

and actually humans aren't even humans.

It sort of depends where you sit with that.

But I think for the industry that we are in

and for the services that we're delivering,

the excitement for me is about the personalization piece.

And so actually, if we think of a leader

in isolation and we think about all of the different data

inputs that are now available to us

through the use of technology,

either in the work environment or personally,

and how the combination of all of that data

starts to give us a picture of that particular individual,

an understanding of that person

that we would never have been able to have before.

And then what that means in terms of personalization

of service, personalization of recommendation,

how you can really start to create

that rapport between the consultant and the individual,

because actually the consultant has got an understanding

of that individual

that they've never ever had before and that they never

could have gained access to before.

Because, if you think about our coaching sometimes,

okay, you have an hour in the room with an individual,

what happens outside that room?

Nobody has any idea.

All you've got is the account

of that particular individual leader,

but what technology and data enables us now to do

is have that ongoing information loop.

So actually, you get far more precise

in terms of what your understanding is of what's happening

and therefore what you can recommend off the back of that.

So for me in the mediums, that feels like

the biggest opportunity that data can provide to us

at the moment that, you know,

is the next bit I really wanna crack,

but we are still at the point where,

we're building the basics, but we definitely will get there.

- Obviously you are an expert on leadership.

How do you think future leaders are gonna be affected by AI

and machine learning and getting the balance right

within sort of teamwork and within

an organization's culture?

Can you sort of see how that might change

or is it gonna be a bumpy ride

or is it gonna be a smoother one do you think?

- It's interesting, isn't it,

for organisations at the moment.

And I think organisations have used data

in things like customer service for an awfully long time,

the bits where it really, really direct impacts

the commercial value of the business.

I think there's been a lot of movement in using data

to really help understand

where some of the pain points are,

where some of the opportunities are

and improving those types of elements

of the organisation.

You know, the people analytics space

is really interesting and has really been gaining momentum

over the last kind of five to 10 years.

And I think, where organisations are now looking

to ensure that they retain their people,

that they develop their people.

You know, they're a huge asset as part of the business,

and so I think using data to understand their people

and how they can shift things like culture

to ensure that actually,

they're engaging people in the right way

and they're retaining people in the right way

or using data to help

understand in a similar way that we would do,

have you got the right leaders for the future?

How do you develop those leaders,

the best kind of intervention to ensure

that you're future fit and you're set up for success?

So I think our leaders at the moment are very used

to using data in some aspects of their work.

And it feels very, very natural

and very, very part of their day to day kind of role.

But I think they're less used to using data

to understand their people,

and actually the benefit that that data brings them

to help have a high performing team

or to make the right selection decisions

or to give the right development support and advice.

They're less used to doing that,

but I think that is something

that they're gonna have to get to grips with.

And I think, you know, in our experience

where that is the case and where that data is available,

they can't believe the amount of insight

that, that opens up to them

and the amount of different support

they can then provide to their people.

So I think that's something

they're gonna have to come to get to grips with.

But I think also, if there isn't a leader

who isn't looking at the technology

that's available and the data that's available to them

and trying to leverage that to understand

actually, how can they shift their strategy with that?

They're going to struggle to do their jobs.

- We talked a little bit

about automated processes and trying

to make a particularly with YSC, but also,

for any organisation more efficient with that,

do you feel particularly within your business

that because you've had, for example,

people who'd be able to enter in more data themselves,

I'm guessing might be a kind of process

that would make sense for you guys,

that they are more honest or more open

about what they want to share with you,

which you in turn can take to get a better picture

of that personality or that personality type.

- So this has been one of the core principles

that we've built into our work.

And so we know that people are happy providing data

if they're gonna get something back

off the back of that data.

And if what they get back is of value,

then they are likely to be more transparent

in order to get the right insight and value back.

I think that works both ways as well.

I think the organisation

has to have a principle around transparency,

how that data is being used so that you actually build up

that trust between the individual and the organisation

that the data is being used in the right way

and stuff like that.

So, through our work,

we've made sure when an individual gives data,

they get something back off that,

it doesn't just go into a void

for HR to use or whoever,

they get insight off the back of that.

And they get recommended action off the back of that.

And so those principles are baked into everything

that we've done.

And so as long as they're getting value from it,

then they will put more data in and therefore,

we get more value out of that data

that we are collecting as well.

So I think that's really, really key.

I think if we didn't do that and we just sent out a bunch

of surveys and that data was used elsewhere

in the organisation

to make some decisions in the individual,

never knew what happened to that or got anything back

on an individual basis, then I don't think that works.

- I think that's one of the trends, isn't it?

That actually, as you're collecting data,

you can personalise your surface.

And actually that personalization

just adds no matter whether it's just,

you know, sort of like you say,

business organisation leadership,

but also across every facet of business.

Our background's obviously marketing and comms

and we have the same thing.

If you can personalise something,

it actually does have much more emphasis.

I think that person feels more engaged with it.

So that's something I can see you guys

would probably think is up there as almost a given,

but actually just because of the very nature

of the business that you have.

- Yeah, absolutely.

- Usually we end our chats with finding out

kind of what skills you think a data professional

coming in to the industry would be most useful.

I don't think they need to be kind of maths,

or as you said, a data geek as you classed yourself earlier,

but what skills do you think,

so a data professional have.

I'm also, because I've obviously got you

as a leadership expert as well.

What are the big trends that you think

future leaders would need as well?

So you can choose one or the other can take one at a time.

- I'm gonna take the data one to begin with,

because I think that's quite interesting

and it's something

that we are kind of working through at the moment.

Data skills, being able to code,

being able to build statistical models

and all of that sort of stuff

I think is becoming a skill

that is much more widely available now.

We certainly haven't got a lack of people

that we could go to to find that type of skill.

I think the bit that is always really key for us

is having some commercial understanding

and then also having the ability

to influence and work with people.

So going back to everything that we've been talking about

in terms of how do you start

to embed some of this stuff in the business?

Yes, it's about the buttons that you click

and the things that you do,

but it is also about actually what's the organisation

that I'm bringing this into.

What's the context, what are the commercial drivers?

What's the value that I'm trying to add here?

And so really making sure you understand that.

So you can contextualise the work that you're doing.

You can prioritise effectively, you understand,

what it is that you are doing and therefore

the recommendations that you need to make.

And then I think it's just the ability to work with people

and collaborate and be able build up

those relationships so that, you know,

the recommendations and the advice that you are giving

off the back of the work that you've done lands well,

that it gets the right backing.

It gets the right time given to it.

So that's it for me that I think it's having

the understandingly and the technical skill,

but then it's had leverage that skill in a way that delivers

impact and value in a commercial environment.

- For leadership, leaders of the future.

- So, I mean, I obviously have a huge one

around being able to understand the opportunity

that technology presents you and being able

to be open minded to that possibility

and how you bring that in to make your function

or your team or whatever that might be,

better than it was before.

I think there is something about the ability

to continually learn and adapt.

It's obvious that we've been through

a significant amount of change, but you know,

we've always gone through an awful lot of change.

And I think actually,

if you can see what's happening externally,

if you can have an appreciation

for how that's gonna impact you

in your role, in your business,

and you can start to learn what you need to learn

and to adapt and to do the things

that will set you up for success

in the future, I think that's huge.

And then I think one of the key pieces of research

that one of my colleagues

at YSC has been doing is around just

the kind of the issues

that leaders have to deal with now

and understand and have an appreciation of

so that they can lead their people

and the expectations that their people have on them

to understand things about sustainability,

health and wellbeing.

I think there's an awful lot that's on leader's shoulders

at the moment in terms of what they have to deal with.

It's not just a job and going in and making sure the people

and your team do the work that they're supposed to do.

There's a whole host of other expectations.

So, you know, really getting to grips with, well,

what are those expectations?

What do my people really look to me to understand

the types of decisions that I need to make?

What's the values and purpose that I wanna kind of deliver

through those decisions as well?

I think that's also pretty big.

- Some really interesting insights on leadership

and getting value from data from Carly.

Join us for the next episode

of Fibonacci, the Red Olive Data Podcast,

where we'll be joined by data expert

sharing their thoughts on the latest trends

in AI and big data.

Make sure you subscribe to Fibonacci,

the Red Olive Data Podcast,

from wherever you get your podcast

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That's all for today, thanks for listening.

I've been your host, Nicky Rudd.

See you next time.