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Welcome to this episode of our Diversity podcast. It is my absolute pleasure to talk with two colleagues from the University of Leeds today, Clare Coleman and James McHale. Welcome and thank you for your time. Today's conversation is in recognition and celebration of UK's Disability History Month.

The aim of the Disability History Month is, in short, to celebrate the lives of disabled people now and in the past. It's also about challenging disableism and work towards further and more equality. I very much look forward to speaking to both of my colleagues, Clare and James, but maybe we can start by each of you introducing

yourselves briefly and telling us a little bit about why Disability History Month may resonate with you. So Clare can I start with you?

Yes, of course. Thanks very much Edgar for that warm welcome. I'm Clare I'm a manager in the Digital Education Service at the University of Leeds, and I've been at Leeds since 2015, originally joining the university to do a PhD. My pronouns are she and her.

And I think one of the reasons Disability Month resonates so much with me is because I've become disabled in the legal sense of that word, but also in the personal identity sense of that word quite recently. I would actually say probably over the course of the last two or three years.

Thank you, Clare That is really interesting and I'm sure something that we'll explore further as we go through because I think many will probably have a different understanding of disability. So thanks for that. James, can I ask you?

Yes, hi.

And again.

Thank you very much for the for the warm welcome. I'm looking forward to this. So I'm James. I'm a part-time MA student in Medieval

Studies.

And I'm the co-chair.

Of the Disability Services student panel.

Pronouns. Are he him or they them.

And what's really exciting.

To me.

Is in particular, what.

Disability history month represents to me. And I think.

What what's.

Really important about it and this.

Is the purpose of this podcast.

For instance.

Is the way in which Disability History.

Month very much.

Puts a spotlight for disabled people themselves to talk about disability.

And.

Issues themselves rather.

Than having over people who are not.

Disabled. Talk about it.

Very much front and centres.

the experiences of disabled.

People themselves. And that's why, to me, it's so important.

Thank you, James. Can I ask you both to talk a little bit about the notion of a hidden disability? Because I think and Clare you talked about becoming disabled, and I know both from you and from James that you have what is called a hidden disability, and it's probably not something that many people know.

So it would be great to hear a bit about your experience of someone with a hidden disability and how you experience this, particularly at work. And maybe I start with James as an MA student and then come to Clare.

Yes. So it's.

It's interesting.

Because we talk a lot about.

Awareness raising, about disability and so on, but it's very much focused on the.

Physical of what people perceive to be a disability.

And again.

I think this a little bit about what it.

Is seeking to do.

I think it gets the way of the actual experience of the disabled person now.

Having been a student of a.

Hidden disability to people.

Just walking on the street.

They don't perceive that I have a disability, but in reality I do.

And I know, and I think one of the differences in the way that that affects me in terms of my being a student is in a support.

That.

Is offered to me on a on a on a day.

To day basis.

For instance.

Lecturers themselves.

They're not very much.

Aware of that. They've got to. I think.

There has been more of an.

Effort from teachers, from tutors, because they're just not that aware. And that is.

Something that needs.

That needs work on.

That. Thank you for that. Can I ask what your disability is?

I'm autistic and I've got ADHD. And so if I could make another point, the.

Way that the.

Way in which that affects me in terms.

Of the way I study the support

That I need in.

Place, I do.

Find and I think this is particularly more relevant to students who have.

Hidden disabilities.

Where the lecture is not that aware. I do find that there is.

A.

Certain disconnect between.

The support that is offered from disability services.

And the.

Actual support that is put in place.

From the lecture on on a day to.

Day basis. And so that's why.

Things like this happening in this podcast and so on in terms.

Of the the point.

That that makes in terms of raising awareness about hidden.

Disabilities.

And to.

Support that. Students of all various.

Disabilities need, I think that's incredibly important.

Thank you James I think that really interesting as as a lecturer as well, I reflect on how that has affected me. Clare you said you came as a PhD student, so you will have seen some some transition as well.

But maybe if we start talking about how your disability and you becoming disabled and on top of this with a hidden, hidden disability, how that impacts you and your experience as someone with that and then maybe also transitioning to how that was potentially a difference between you as a student and you as an employee.

Yeah, sure. And so I think the key issue for me in the work place was that that initial choice, do I tell anybody? Is this something that is a major part of my life that I choose to keep hidden from both colleagues and from managers?

And that's a really huge decision. Obviously, I was quite concerned about my career prospects, so I was concerned about getting a more ongoing contract. I'd only been working on part time or short term contracts at the University up until then.

So making the decision to disclose was what was the biggest thing, I think, in terms of my my work life. And that was also the biggest challenge transitioning from being a disabled student with the support that I received as a student, I suddenly then found that the workplace was quite different in that I would have to disclose

or I wouldn't get support and disclosing in itself raised new questions about how comfortable I was with accepting my identity, I suppose as somebody with a disability in that particular workplace. So I think I found the transition quite difficult because there's so there was so much support for me as a student.

And yet once I was into the workplace, the situation was was very different.

Thank you, Clare I think there's some really interesting for me, really interesting aspect here is that notion of disclosing and declaring a disability and the need to do that, of course, with with a hidden disability or the sense that one has to do it. James!

Yes. I'm just going to.

Say.

I agree because this is sort of one of the points that I've often talked about with other students.

On this.

Disability panel that I co-chair about.

The need.

To actually declare it if that should.

Happen or not. And one of the things that's always been emphasized by myself and others.

Is that.

There's no.

Legal.

Requirement that a.

Disabled person declares that disability for their work.

And some disabled people choose not to, and some choose to.

I think that's very much down to the individual as to whether whether to do so.

And I think again, it's about giving the agency.

To the disabled.

Person.

Themselves, as well as to whether they decide to do.

That, now me personally.

As a student, I felt very.

Comfortable and open and willing to declare my disability and talk about it.

And it's why I do. This podcast today.

About raising awareness and so on, and I'm.

Talking about the support, but as to to.

Work in the.

Future as to whether I'm going to be as.

Willing to declare.

It because of.

The changes in, say, terms.

Of how work approaches disability.

In comparison with.

How.

It's dealt with in higher education. I've not settled on, I'm not entirely sure.

Yet, but I've always.

Been clear.

And as other

disabled people on this panel that I co-chair

Is that the.

declaring it is I think very much up to the individual and that has to be emphasized.

What I find interesting in that conversation is actually that we have to contemplate such decisions. So not many people will have to, on a daily basis, think about whether they declare. And it's very important to to recognize the the potential pressure that this places on individuals to do so.

So I think it's a really important aspect. And Clare in your particular perspective, this idea of bringing a whole identity to work and what that does, if you can't so thank you, I think it's a really challenging aspect and thank you for your openness and discussing as well the challenge that it brings.

And James, I hope you will always feel comfortable and have the agency to be who you are and as open as you are about the fears that come with it. Can I ask sort of maybe as an extension on how this pandemic that we currently live through has affected your life as part of that?

The pandemic, I think, has resulted in me feeling, I would say, actually discriminated against in my life and in the workplace for the first time. I'm 51, so I've had a long career already, and most of that was without the current health condition, the type that I now work with.

The pandemic has been very challenging for me because I'm clinically extremely vulnerable to COVID. Due to medication that I'm taking, but also due to several other interacting health conditions as well. And the pandemic has limited my life in so many ways, not least, of course, not being allowed outside of my home for four months, not

even for an hour's exercise like everyone else. And I don't have a garden I live in a Leeds back to back. So on a practical side, obviously, it affects everyone's lives differently. But for me personally, it also resulted in me having to give up student teaching, which was something I loved and move across to doing a different

role at the university completely. So huge changes. However, on the positive side, I would say homeworking has been so beneficial for me and has resulted in me being able to completely control my pain levels. So over the last two years, I have gone from using quite hefty pain medication to actually weaning myself off my last lot of

pain meds in the last couple of weeks. So hugely positive impact of being able to home work and do physio physiotherapy exercises at home, being able to move around, just just having the control over my workspace in a way that I just cannot have in a very busy office.

James, what about you?

Well, if I could just comment on what Clare said.

I think it's.

Quite.

Interesting in terms.

Of the positive.

I think, if anything, that this pandemic.

Has brought about, that's that could possibly be seen as a positive.

In future.

I do certainly think it's that aspect of flexibility for disabled.

People, and I think perhaps.

That could help close the disability.

Employment gap in.

Future.

Where I make.

Work more.

Accessible in a way where.

You've got this more flexibility at home with at home.

Working. In addition, I also want to.

Just talk about how.

It has affected me, and.

It's.

Interesting we asked.

This how the pandemic specifically has.

Affected my life.

With disability because.

I no longer feel I can separate.

The question.

Of the pandemic entirely from talking about my experiences.

With a disability and higher education here at Leeds because I'm.

22 and I've only ever been at Leeds during the pandemic.

Which which feels like it's gone on for so long now. And so the pandemic has affected.

My life in massive ways, and it's affected.

My.

Being a student here at Leeds in every way from the very beginning and of course, there are common themes.

And experiences that I share

with everyone, particularly the loneliness, I felt.

Quite.

Quite lonely during lockdown.

I have to say but specifically on my disability, for example, I've got ADHD.

And autism and.

Issues that I struggle with massively.

And showing I've got, erm, and some semblance of an established.

Structure.

And routine and.

That.

And.

Help before it was.

Sent.

It wasn't perfect because these are issues of which I struggle.

What certainly.

Assisted was.

Having structured things in my day.

To day life where.

I needed to get to uni for certain time and so on and so.

Forth around which I could.

Try and establish a certain routine and structure about things I do.

Because of that home work order.

And more recently, that's been reintroduced and these perpetual lockdowns.

That's been one of the biggest challenges, as.

Well as the loneliness.

As it's.

Been one of the biggest challenges as a result of my.

Disability that I've had to.

Contend.

With. And so it's it's.

Often meant where I

Have to focus.

entirely on one thing a day and move on to the next another day. And I've got to try and.

Account as best I.

Can for how my disabilities and the pandemic has negatively affected me.

Thank you. I think for me, it's interesting, both of you say, of course, that this affects all of us in different ways, but I think it's that that ability to see how it affects us differently, I think is very important because I think many make an assumption that it affects us all in similar ways

. So we're all affected by it, that it affects us differently. Yes, James, please.

Yeah. Yes, I completely agree, actually.

I think what's really good about this conversation that we have now.

Is is we're talking about hidden disabilities that both.

I and Clare

have but

The ways in which that's affected in terms of the pandemic.

Is, is, is in quite different ways.

And it's important, I think.

To have that.

Conversation.

Yeah. Now I'm sorry, Clare.

No, I just wanted to agree with James there and say, yes, it's brought it out. We've had almost opposite experiences of homeworking, it sounds. And I think. We just need to be really mindful of those those differences. There's a generational difference possibly involved as well.

Most of my friends of my age and older are very concerned still and are still very cautious, even if they are otherwise healthy. Whereas my nieces and nephews who are in their twenties are already out and about and pretty much returning, or at least over the summer this year pretty much returned to pre pandemic lifestyle.

I'm still effectively having to shield I don't want to, but but I have to. I have no choice now.

I agree. I think it's that that understanding of how individual experience stiffen. I'd like to come back to the support if that is okay, because I hope James, he can feed into what you what you were probably about to say.

But I think it was really interesting for you to say that you think overall the support that you were offered as a student was good to James, and I think you echoed that as well, Clare but both of you had experiences, Clare, you transitioning into the work space where it was different, different.

And James, I think you talked about the actual individual or the experience with individuals. So for example, the individual tutors or lecturers may not be particularly well there. Can you maybe, on the one hand, emphasize what support works really well, but also where where you think this is the one thing that I think or two things that

I think support and policy around support for disability needs and maybe I start with Clare and come to you, James.

Yes, thank you. So I guess in the workplace, there's a lot that you can do that's very simple and positive towards supporting people with types of disabilities that cover that covers pretty much everything. And the first thing there is to create a culture of openness so that people feel that they can disclose and they can initiate a

conversation with either a colleague or a line manager. That is, it sounds easy, but it's actually really difficult if the people you're working with don't ever engage with you about your needs in the workplace. So I guess the positive thing that anyone can do is just check with somebody.

Have you got everything that you need to do your job? Well, one person might interpret that to be a question about what sort of adjustments, what sort of equipment might they need. So that's all that people need to do.

They just need to invite by invite a conversation by asking a question, Have you got everything that that you need?

Thank you. That's really helpful. James.

I completely.

Agree, and.

It is about elevated.

And establishing that.

Culture of.

Openness.

About.

Disability and.

Discuss what it is.

I think is fundamentally.

About.

Having that sense of understanding from.

Different.

Colleagues and in my instance, in my cases. But I think I understand it from lectures and so on because.

Well, it's all well and good having these cases of.

Raising awareness and.

And talking about it.

And having.

The positive policies there. But what.

Matters fundamentally.

Is is what is actually.

Happening.

And if you don't have that?

A sense of understanding from a lecturer, for instance, then.

The support will not be.

Be forthcoming. So I think what's important is ensuring that.

It's in place there.

And I and I have had.

So I was going to finish. I have had.

Mixed experiences on that front of a lecturers who are very understanding and it's like.

Yes, this support is here, they're for you and another lecturers of them all. While I would, if not, so I wouldn't.

Say who stood in the way of.

Support.

They've in effect, they have in a way by simply not being understanding and questioning things more.

And I think I think there's always a need for more awareness-raising about these issues. And I think I think as part of what academic staff are involved with, they obviously have inclusive teaching as a key part of what their job role entails.

That is more visible, perhaps, than it is for a line manager, say, for whom inclusive workplace practices are not so readily visible. They certainly don't have any mandatory training. It leads in inclusive workplace practices. But there is training available is the kind of thing that people might get interested in through personal experiences in the workplace or members

of their own family, perhaps developing a health condition or a disability. So the opportunities for finding out more are definitely there around Leeds I think. I do think that in some ways the workplace culture is already changing, and I think the pandemic has been a positive influence.

Certainly, we've mentioned already about flexible working, and there's certainly more being looked into around that that will help raise the profile of the different needs of disabled staff and students together among the university's wider communities. So I think that kind of awareness raising is an ongoing thing that the pandemic has perhaps, hopefully helped develop a bit

I don't know if you'd agree with that, James.

I would. Yes, I think I think it's a very perceptive point.

You made that clear.

As regards the fact that.

Support and understanding and and so on can come about from.

A place of of personal experience.

If I may pick this up, and I think the point is really important around personal experience, awareness and an open environment because not everyone will have had a personal experience and that is partly a good thing as well.

But it's about for me podcasts like this. It's about hearing lived experiences to understand and to raise that awareness. Is that just because you haven't had it as an individual that experience directly or by someone else? It is still an experience that people have and that we as individuals can shape.

So I think it's an important point to keep in mind and certainly something that I jotted down as a note. James, please?

Yes, I agree.

Edgar

That Clare was talked.

About in terms of.

Flexible.

Work and positive.

Aspects about that. I agree that.

The pandemic in a way as has introduced.

That.

That's come about in a.

Positive way. However, what I would say is that.

It's not always come.

About the for the best of.

Reasons. For instance, many of.

The and it's.

Important, I think, as me for me as a disabled student to make this. I think.

Things that, for example.

Many of.

The.

Changes as the pandemic in terms in terms of higher education, teaching in terms of.

Resources.

Are not provided in more inclusive formats and recorded lectures and so on. Those have come about.

As a result of.

The pandemic. And it's certainly benefited.

Disabled.

Students. However, when disabled students were asking for these things before the pandemic.

They weren't forth-coming.

Too often said.

That these can't.

Be done or it's too much work and so on. But when it's needed for everybody.

Then it's come about.

And in so doing, it has benefited disabled people.

But I think there's.

A point to be made about.

That.

These some of these things should have been done before the pandemic.

I agree with that, James. That also is echoed in the workplace. So I asked for homeworking, what, nearly four years ago now and was told that there is a culture of face to face meetings at the university. Therefore, it was not appropriate for me to take part in meetings using Skype.

So from that position to where I am today, which is working successfully full time at home, I feel like I've I've come a long way. But I hear what you're saying, James, that we shouldn't lose sight of the fact.

That there are still going to be other adjustments, other issues that disabled people are bringing to the fore and have been doing so for many years, which are still remaining unaddressed going forward. I think there's there's definitely positives from the pandemic, but as you've highlighted, there's also challenges as well.

I think for me, one of the things I'm hearing is that there's something about not. Trying to make it the same for everyone, which policy often tries to make, but rather to begin to think about how the individual experiences can be reflected in the way we are flexible, for example, about home working, for example, in in the

way in which we provide adjustments.

I agree Edgar. And actually, I think.

To.

Be optimistic. I think one of the things about which I am quite optimistic in the.

Future is that once.

This pandemic is over, we're not going to.

Go back to a.

Position.

Where work, where it work life was was what it.

Was before the pandemic. I think many of the things that have been introduced in terms of flexible.

Working.

Working from home and and.

All those aspects that.

Have made.

Working.

More.

Inclusive for disabled people.

I think are going to be maintained and are going to be.

Kept. So I.

Do think that, you know, once this pandemic is.

Over.

How long that.

Takes, whether it's for around 2025 onwards.

From then.

I do believe that.

The economy and.

Work for disabled people.

Will be more inclusive and accessible.

To disabled people.

So I think that's a point.

About which we.

Should be optimistic and.

Positive about. I feel.

Great. Thank you very much. I think one of the interesting bits is I was going to ask something about reasonable adjustments in the workplace or for James in terms of studying. But I think we actually talk quite a lot about what adjustment might mean.

And indeed. Clare, you used the word adjustment, but I believe that if the more legalistic language is about reasonable adjustment that we can expect from an employer or to support that students can expect. Is there anything either of you wants to share around that notion of reasonable adjustment and what works particularly well or what doesn't?

Considering we've talked about the idea of working from home, adopting more of that flexibility based on individual circumstances, but maybe we haven't covered everything around reasonable adjustments.

In the workplace. I think what works well only works well if you have a good relationship with your line manager. So for reasonable adjustments as a as a concept, as a way of supporting disabled people in the workplace, for that to operate effectively, you need a really a really supportive line manager.

And that's where the awareness raising comes in and where training needs to be more than just an optional extra that a line manager might undergo where it can work well. It's fantastic, however. Also, those line managers have a lot of power over the people they are managing and to be on the receiving end of decisions that are

made about, for example, in the pandemic context, whether you are going to be required to go on to campus or not to attend a team workshop, for example, those sorts of decisions are made over your head and the word reasonable adjustment is never mentioned and it needs to be.

So I think I think a key thing is strengthening our line managers, enabling online managers to be really great line managers. They will support disabled staff, but they will also support everyone to, of course, in a better way.

Yeah, I think that idea of inclusive leadership and what that means and me being a manager and a leader who supports their colleagues as is and I think as you say, we're coming back to this notion of training and awareness raising and support mechanism.

James, anything you wanted to add?

Yeah, I was going to say.

I was going to echo a bit what.

Clare was saying in terms of.

reasonable

adjustments

For the support that's in place to be effective. You've got to have very supportive.

In mind in my case tutors and admin

staff

And obviously

That works less well.

When.

You've got less supportive.

Or less than sending.

Tutors. So I also think that that speaks to a challenge to disabled.

Students face themselves.

Because it raises the question of what actually reasonable.

Adjustments is.

And it's often very legalistic.

It's not very the whole notion of it that's presented is not very.

Accessible to disabled.

Students and.

Therefore the.

Need for this element.

To be aware of that themselves as.

As individuals and.

What's what's, what's there.

For them and so on and what they need.

What support they've got to ask.

And so I think that.

Speaks to.

An additional.

Layer off of of.

This kind of complex version to some.

Aspects that disabled students have to be aware of as.

They navigate.

Higher.

Education and that manifest.

Itself.

In in constant emails, trying to arrange support, it manifests itself in terms of additional admin documents. I think 1 point we don't talk about enough in terms of.

In terms of support for disabled people. Yes.

Often is there and it's provided and so on.

But we don't talk.

About enough about how tiring and and the.

Additional effort that disabled.

Students have to.

Go to ensure that they get those reasonable.

Adjustments.

That's an excellent point. It's not. It's the same for disabled staff, the admin load, the extra work they have to do within that role. They don't get extra time for any of that alongside the actual job. So there's a time burden and the cognitive load.

There's also a cost. I'm sure I know there's lots of research that shows that having a disability means that your disability costs a lot, particularly a health condition, which I which I do know about the actual cost in terms of transport, paying for medication, paying for all of the aspects of your life that you have to pay

for because you have a disability. So there's a huge a huge burden that disabled people bear in both time and cost and energy.

I think it's really great that you raise this because I recently spoke to a student voice commissioner who sits in a wheelchair, and I think that came out as well as we go about their daily life and don't necessarily recognize how long it may take someone else with a disability to plan for the same journey, for the

same activity, for the same thing, because there will be barriers that are not necessarily seen by others. So thank you both for raising that.

James, I agree that that's what it essentially is. It's additional barriers, but those barriers start.

In my instance, disabled students face.

So the additional costs, the.

Additional time, additional money and.

Effort that.

Goes into.

It. I should.

Say doing those same activities as students do.

The.

Actual assignments and research and so on, but also.

The support that's.

In place for getting in place and so on. It negatively.

Affects.

Students, and it's.

part of the factor.

That goes into.

The likelihood of why disabled

Students sometimes.

sometimes

Students, sometimes discontinue the courses and drop out.

So it's.

Something that that needs to.

Be.

Have more attention on, and I think this is something that universities are starting to do in terms of yes, establishing.

Good support there.

For students, but.

Also.

Accounting for and ensuring.

That there's few barriers as possible.

For students to.

be able to access that.

Support and get it put in place in an effective and timely manner that benefits individual students. And it's not and it lowers the burdens for them.

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you both. I'd like us to sort of maybe look more around your contribution to some of the advocacy that's happening and really what you're proud of in terms of your work. For example, Clare, for you as the coconvenor of the chronic pain and fatigue staff network or you, James is someone serving on the disability

student panel, and I believe you are also a young ambassador for the National Autistic Society. So maybe James, if you could pick up one or two things of the things that you're proud of in terms of your work as an advocate with within that area?

Well.

Now you mentioned about the fact I'm a young, ambassador for the

National Autistic Society it's.

True, and one of the things that I'm certainly passionate about.

Is.

This is a concern I.

Have is the.

Employment.

Gap for autistic people. And so.

As an individual myself.

I.

Very much focus on trying to ensure.

That.

I am going to have opportunities in life and in employment. And I've worked very hard on that

And I I've also tried to.

Pursue that in terms.

Of the advocacy work that I do more.

Generally.

So. What I'm particularly proud of is.

I know firsthand that from discussions with others and so on is that not.

Every disabled.

Person or student is able to go out there and be open about.

Who they.

Are and the need to talk about that and and the problems that persist and need addressing in higher education, for example. But nor should.

It be this responsibility as.

Incumbent upon them for them to do so, they shouldn't.

Have to to do that. But I.

Am willing to go out and do that, and.

I've not been really cared too much about what people.

Think of me in in response to what I'm doing. And so what I'm most proud of then, is helping to enable.

The disability.

Student panel.

That I co-chair to try and push it.

Forward more as.

To be a.

Form of empowerment.

And.

Sharing of experiences. And so.

It's about others

And the empowerment of.

others I feel.

Is important to me.

Because it's.

Through the empowerment of individual.

Experiences.

That we can.

Get to a point where we ensure.

Things are more.

Inclusive for disabled.

Students.

at Leeds.

Thank you, James, and it is inspiring, to say the least. Clare..

I'm proud of everyone on the staff network that I co-founded a couple of years ago. It was a decision to put something in place because staff did not have any disability network at all at that time. We do now have a new staff and PGR disability network to support people across the university, so that's fantastic.

I think that that staff network was really pivotal for me personally and supporting me and taking on an extremely challenging role. I would not be able to do my job today if I hadn't have enjoyed the support of everyone on that staff network.

I'm doing a challenging job that I don't think many people would have been considered for, perhaps historically in my with my conditions and my my my experience is good, but my my health condition means that I cannot. I cannot do a lot of things to the sorts of deadlines that people are used to working to, especially in

the culture of the service that I'm working in at the moment at the university, it's very fast paced, but with support from the staff network and with support from good line managers, I've been able to succeed in that role.

Thank you. And I think it highlights. So much the importance of networks and allies and supportive colleagues, but also a space where we can talk about openly of what the challenges are with people who understand what these challenges are.

Thank you both, and I think it's inspiring to hear that this goes on, and I hope we can do a little to highlight and showcase some of that work. We talked about a number of different things, and I don't want to take that much more of your time, but I wonder whether we could leave our listeners with

the one piece of advice or insight or guidance or general message about disability that you would want someone to take away, particularly since we took quite a bit about sort of awareness raising and being being open about this experience.

So James, can I start with you?

Yes. I've never allowed my disability to.

Limit me.

Or really starts to try push.

Against.

I've got ADHD, so I'm a bit of a thrill.

Seeker and I see life.

As a.

As a fun and exciting adventure.

And so.

I know obviously.

I do have challenges.

I must contend with as a result and as a result of my being autistic.

And so I get a lot of support

at home from my mom and I.

Get a lot of support.

From Uni

Disability services. And I've always tried to push back.

Against the limitations.

That people have.

About me or sought to place on me to stop me achieving. And so in response, I.

Work very hard.

I try my best to account for the problems that I face, and I.

Also cut myself some.

Slack when I.

Falter a bit.

On.

Those.

And so I seek to try and really play to my strengths.

I would say.

And and in order to try and achieve and I give everything 100%, even when the odds are.

A bit off. And at the same time, I still have a bit of.

Imposter syndrome in me, and I think.

I think disabled.

Students in particular can face that sense of imposter syndrome when, when, when the seem, when it seems that.

They shouldn't be there, but they should.

And.

I.

Try to ignore them, pushed back against it.

And so a quote that's always stood.

Out to me is something that Carrie Fisher once said, and that's.

Stay afraid, but.

Do it anyway. What's important is the action.

You don't have to wait to be.

Confident, just.

Just do.

It, and eventually the confidence.

Will follow.

And that's something that I very much try.

To live up to.

Thank you, James. Clare.

I've got a couple of thoughts for some line managers coming from the position of a member of staff, but also as a new line manager myself, so in the workplace, we need to really trust staff and enable staff to be open and if appropriate, talk to us about a disability.

We also need to be available for those conversations and we also need to be vulnerable as managers. We need to accept that sometimes we might get it wrong. Sometimes it might feel a bit awkward. Sometimes we don't know what the right or appropriate words are to discuss the topics that we might regard as a bit alien or

a bit unfamiliar. And I know disability is both of those things for many people at the University of Leeds, but I think as line managers, we have a great opportunity there through our own availability and vulnerability to encourage those on our teams to not only have conversations with us, give us feedback on how their work experiences are

going, but also to enable those people to flourish as part of a diverse team.

Thank you, Clem. Thank you both. This has been really insightful for me. It's been really interesting to hear your experiences. Thank you very much to both of you for the time, for the openness and for the encouragement and positivity that comes with all of the experiences that you had.

And really the idea that we can make a difference to individuals lives at work and in our community around that. So. Thank you very much. Again, Clare. Thank you very much against James, and it's been a real pleasure talking with you.

Thank you.

Thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure.