AUDIO SHOW NOTES (4,000 characters)
In this episode of Trust and Influence in B2B Marketing, Joel Harrison sits down with Katy Howell, Founder and CEO of Immediate Future, a social media agency she has led since 2004. Together, they tackle one of B2B marketing's most persistent blind spots: the difference between thought leaders, influencers, and advocates — and what happens when brands get it wrong. Are you unknowingly leaving your most powerful trust-building channels completely unused?
➡️ Katy brings deep, practical experience in influencer strategy and pulls no punches. She and Joel explore why B2B marketers default to treating influence like a media buy — focused on reach and clicks — rather than asking how each persona actually shapes buyer decisions and builds lasting credibility. Joel also introduces his new B2B Matrix of Influence, built from analysis of over a thousand B2B marketing awards entries, mapping five distinct trust personas and how they should be deployed. They dig into why customer advocates are used in just 11% of campaigns, why employee advocates are chronically undervalued, and how brands can stop over-controlling the very people they need to trust them. Katy's closing soundbite says it all: influence is not a content tactic — it's a trust system. If you want to rethink how your brand earns credibility in a world drowning in AI-generated content, this episode is essential listening.
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction to the B2B Matrix of Influence
01:02 - Why Marketers Confuse Thought Leaders, Influencers & Advocates
02:09 - Treating Influence Like a Media Plan: The Problem
04:21 - Why the Trust Problem Has Gotten Worse
06:47 - Internal vs. External Voices: Understanding the Difference
09:04 - The Jazz Metaphor: Giving People Freedom Within a Framework
12:37 - Research Findings: How B2B Campaigns Use Trust Personas
15:15 - Introducing the B2B Matrix of Influence Framework
20:37 - How to Work With Unpaid External Influencers
23:01 - Paid Influencers: Autonomy Over Direction
25:11 - Customer Advocates: The Most Underused Trust Asset
27:37 - How to Use the Matrix to Build a Trust Plan
31:24 - Final Thoughts: Influence Is a Trust System, Not a Content Tactic
Follow Katy Howell,
https://www.linkedin.com/in/katyhowell/
https://immediatefuture.co.uk
If you care about making B2B marketing more meaningful, useful, and memorable, this conversation is for you. It's honest, reflective, and packed with takeaways that can help elevate your approach to thought leadership---whether you're a content creator, strategist, or brand leader.
🌐Visit Joel Harrison's website to explore exclusive reports, upcoming events, and join the B2B marketing community ➡️ https://www.joelharrisonb2b.com/
💬What do you think comes first---building a strategy around the personas you have, or the trust gaps you need to fix? Let us know in the comments below.
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📲Follow Joel Harrison and Trust & Influence in B2B across the web:
LinkedIn ▶ https://linkedin.com/in/joelharrison/
Podcast ▶ https://trust-influence-in-b2b.captivate.fm/
Instagram ▶ https://instagram.com/joelharrisonb2b/
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