As a young man, today’s guest, Tony Verhagen, was hit by a drunk driver in a devastating car accident and determined to be dead at the scene. He was later revived but suffered multiple life-altering injuries.

Doctors told him he would never walk again. Against the odds—and after months of physical therapy—he learned to walk again. Yet the accident left him with chronic pain that he’s lived with ever since.

Tony's story is one of resilience. In this episode, we talk about that fateful day, the long road of recovery, the challenges of living with chronic pain, and the choice to live a beautiful, full life through it all.

RESOURCES:

• Full show notes: maybethiswillbethecure.com/blog/tony

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The information shared in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Consult your physician before making any changes to your health plan. The host, Megan, is not a healthcare provider. Always seek guidance from a qualified health professional for your individual needs.

Welcome to maybe this Will Be the Cure, a podcast where the wisdom of a healing journey meets the warmth of shared experiences. Join as we explore the topics of healing, living with chronic conditions, chronic pain, neurodiversity, mental health, and parenting kids with disabilities. I'm your host, Megan. Today's guest, Anthony Verhagen, was a young man when he was hit by a drunk driver in a terrible car accident and determined to be dead at the scene. He was later revived, but suffered multiple devastating injuries and doctors told him he'd never walk again. He beat the odds, and after lots of physical therapy, he learned to walk again. But the accident left him with chronic pain that he's lived with ever since. His story is one of resilience, and I look up to him a lot and am so lucky to call my uncle. In this episode, we talk about that fateful day, the long road of recovery, the challenges of living with chronic pain, and choosing to live a beautiful, full life through it all. I just wanted to give you a quick heads up. The audio gets a bit rough toward the end of the episode, but I just think the story is too meaningful to cut, so I wanted to share it with you. Anyway, I am so excited for today's guest. It's my wonderful uncle, Anthony Verhagen. I wanted to have him on the podcast because I just really admire him and I think he has an incredible story to share. I know he's lived with chronic pain for years, and as someone who's living with chronic pain myself, and seeing how it impacts every aspect of your life, I just wanted to hear about his experiences living with that, and I think that y' all will love to hear what he has to say. So welcome, Uncle Tony to the podcast. Thanks for coming on.

Thank you for having me.

Megan, I don't know before we start, if you want to give, like a short little intro about yourself.

Well, I, like you said, I'm your uncle. And yeah, I just, as you mentioned, you know, living with chronic pain. I am one of those individuals that. Yes. That as a result of a drunk driver crashing into me, it definitely changed the trajectory of my life. So. And put me in this world, you know, of living with chronic pain.

Yeah. So I wanted to ask, before the accident, what was your life like then? Or could you kind of tell us about, like, what were you up to? What was life like before that?

Yes. Well, so I'm LDS, and when I was 19, I went and served a mission for the church, Jesus Christ the Latter Day Saints, and I was sent to the Philippines. And upon return, you know, I, I really thoroughly enjoyed my mission and when I came home my plan was to work a little and then to go back to college. I attended BYU Idaho. And after, you know, I wanted to save up some money and then I was going to attend byu. So when, yeah, my life was going great, you know, I was able to hook up with my two best friends and we were able to find some work and, and then we also, while we were working we were like, hey, there's a local college here. Let's you know, take some courses, you know, that were transferable and go from there. So I also was a, a former athlete before one of my mission, I wrestled there at BYU Idaho. And when I came back I was going to pursue football because that was the sport I also played. So I was going to attend college and major in history and my idea was to be a history teacher and you know, also be a coach, you know. And so that's where I was working towards. I started dating my first wife and we got married and she was pregnant and we were only married two months. When we were coming home from visiting friends we went to the, you know, we had brought a DVD player over to watch a movie and after the movie we, we were returning to my parents house because the next day was going to be Mother's Day and we wanted to spend Mother's Day with my mom. And so we had made plans spend the night and after leaving our friend's house, driving up the road we were hit by a truck and they were, had been at a party, they were drunk and high and ran a stop sign and matched into our car. So that, yeah, that happened, you know, when I was just barely two months married and my wife at the time was pregnant with my first child.

Oh my gosh. Would you be open to sharing a little bit about the accident itself and like the impact that it had on you? You don't need to go too much in detail. I don't want to dredge anything up but just you know, how did you like, did someone call 91 1? How'd you get the hospital? What kind of injuries did you experience? Was anybody else hurt in the accident?

Yeah, so in our vehicle was my wife at the time and she had a little daughter who was one and a half years old which was sitting on her lap. And then I had my little brother Michael on the back seat and he was a young teenager at the time. And so when we got hit, I took the brunt of the accident. My little brother had Suffered injuries as well. And this accident happened late at night, close to midnight. And we lived in a rural town at that time. Maybe there was three or four thousand people living in the town. And so, yeah, driving home that late at night, there weren't too many houses on the road I was traveling on. So when we got hit, like I said, I don't remember the accident. I didn't. I didn't feel the impact, but I. Obviously, I sustained major injuries. And so I'm not familiar with who called 91 1, but I know that the sound of the crash had awakened these residents were living in a house close by. And they had known my family, so they were able to call them. And Also they called 911 as a result of the accident. And this transpiring, the police or the sheriff and the firemen came. And of course, they called Enamel. I was pronounced, you know, like, with the sheriff that said I had. There was a fatality. What happened was the ambulance had taken my wife, her daughter, and my little brother to the hospital. And the sheriff had told, you know, I guess the people around that they were waiting for the court. They already called the coroner. They were waiting for the coroner to pick me up. What happened is that mentioned. We're in a little rural town. And another ambulance showed up. And so they made the decision to put me in the amb. And say, you know, they said, hey, you know, his family's going to the hospital. Go ahead and take him to the hospital. And we'll have the coroner go, you know, meet them there and take them from there. So somebody at that time had. Was able to contact my parent. And, you know, they came down and they rushed to the hospital. Yeah. What happened when my. My parents had come? My dad was, you know, was very religious and he was presiding bishop of our church. And he had, you know, in addition to seeing how we were, was going to, you know, give a blessing right away. So he started to attend to my little brother because the doctor was with him, telling him what the injuries that my brother had sustained. And my little brother kept telling him, don't worry about me. Go help my brother. You know, go health, Tony. And so they went to me and started, you know, trying to revive me. And I guess they were successful and, you know, rushed me into surgery. The injuries I sustained. My skull was fractured in four places. My nose was broke. My cheekbone was shattered. My jaw was broken to places I had broken and lost several teeth. My neck was broken. My left shoulder was dislocated. I had many Lacerations on my left arm to the bone from the glass and metal. I had internal injuries. As a result, my spleen had to be removed. They did exploratory surgery. My left hip was shattered. My femur was broken in two places. And so as a result of that impact, you know, I lost the ability to walk. So I spent close to a month in that hospital. I spent several days in icu, and, you know, I had, you know, obviously they had to stop being. I guess, the internal bleeding and, you know, get me, I guess. Oh, my gosh. What's that called?

Stable or.

Yeah, that. Yeah, they. I was. I believe I was put in one of those comas, you know, and then they would, you know, perform other surgeries, you know, as the days went by. But, yeah, the main thing was that they just, you know, took care of the major injury at first and then continued the surgeries after that. You know, like, I. They had to do reconstructive surgery on my face. And in fact, I had to have three reconstructive surgeries. You know, I had to have my cheekbone wired, my jaw wired. And so, yeah, so those are the injuries.

Oh, my gosh.

Oh, my gosh.

How long were you out of it before you came to and, like, realized what had happened?

It was. Like I said, it was several days. I know that the first people I saw were my parents, and I was excited to see them because I had experienced, you know, leaving this earth and going somewhere else, you know, and so that. And that was extremely vivid. And so I wanted to share that, you know, tell them about it. But as I said, my jaw was broke, my face was all messed up, so I couldn't, you know, get the words out. I couldn't really talk. So that was a bummer, because I wanted to share that with them. And so, yeah, and then one of the days I was in there, we were in a Catholic hospital, you know, where they had their clergy, you know, attending to patients, giving them, you know, blessings and prayers. And so the first. Actually, the very first thing I remember is the. I guess the doctor, the main surgeon who was overseeing, you know, my care, came in with one of their religious individuals. Like, I said, I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the Catholic Church, so I don't know their proper title, but they came in and they said, hey, you know, you're very lucky to be alive. You know, And I just kind of shook my head and they go, no, you're very lucky to be alive. They said, well, we are operating on, you you know, we had lost you and we had to bring you back, you know, to life, so you're very lucky to be alive. And I was like, yeah. And then, of course, then they, you know, as the days went by, they. Another surgeon came in and they told me and. And my parents, you know, that I'll probably never walk again. If I do, I'll always need the assistance a wheelchair or a cane. When I heard that news, I'm like, oh, no way. You know, that's not gonna happen because I'm, you know, like I said, I was a former athlete. Yeah, I was in great shape because I was planning to go back to college and pursue sports, you know, so I was in the best condition, you know, physically in my life. And of course they said, yeah, that's, you know, why you're alive because, you know, you're in really good shape. So. But I was, you know, when they told me that, I'm like, yeah, no way, you know, that's not going to happen. But anyway, they were correct. As far as, you know, I spent a year in a wheelchair. And then I. Yeah. And then in that process, being in the wheelchair, I was very headstrong, and I was like, no, you know, I'm gonna walk again. So I had, you know, I was going to physical therapy, obviously, and, yeah, there was times that I did progress. I was able to use crutches for a good amount of time. And then, of course, had to have another surgery on the hip and leg. And, you know, they had to put a artificial hip in and a steel bar, you know, titanium.

Was most of your surgeries then while you were in the hospital, or was it spaced out afterwards, like through that first year?

Exactly. Yeah, they did, you know, the main surgeries get me, you know, to be able to be released. Fortunately, they didn't make the decision, you know, to put a steel plate in my skull and then also didn't wreck my. The broken neck. So. Yes to your question. I had to have multiple surgeries once I was released from the hospital, you know, or I'd have to go back in and they would do things, as I mentioned, you know, I had to have three reconstructive surgeries to, you know, so my. Yeah, scars wouldn't be so visible because. Yeah, I was cut. Super, you know, deep cuts, which also exposed my whole gum and teeth, you know, and they had to close that up and. Yeah. So.

Oh, my gosh. How is. I, like, I just. I didn't even. I've never heard all of these details and I just can't imagine, like, what you must have been thinking at the time. And also like, your wife was pregnant and how was that and like, how long would you say did it take you to be like, recovered in a sense? I know you've dealt with stuff your whole life, but where you felt a little bit more stable?

Yeah, well, fortunately she wasn't, you know, physically injury she had, she did sustain the last duration on her knee that required some stitches. But other than the emotional trauma, obviously, you know, from that whole incident having, and again, her being pregnant. So the accident happened in May and she gave birth to my son Shane in September. So yeah, she was a good amount far. But as far as, you know, me getting back on my feet, you know, I had that determination. We were living in a small duplex and they had to bring in a hospital bed and which we was set up in our main living room because, you know, that it was a pretty big, you know, hospital bed. It had a trapeze thing so I could grab it and then maneuver my body to get out of the bed. So. But yeah, it definitely took over a year for me to start feeling, you know, somewhat functional. But yeah, as a result of these injuries, I was on a lot of different medications, definitely was on pain medication. And unfortunately, as a result of the accident and the injuries I sustained and then having numerous surgeries afterward to try and alleviate the pain and also sustained major nerve damage, you know, in my neck and then also in my lower back, you know, with my sciatic nerve. So they were always trying to minimize, you know, how much pain I was in on a daily basis. But unfortunately, you know, I've had to live with chronic pain, having decisions, you know, managing my care to try and give me some relief, you know, throughout the day and night with different medications to help me be able to live as normal as a life as I can, you know. Yeah, very fortunate, very blessed that I didn't lose any limbs. So when people see me, you know, I'm sure they think, oh, you know, he's normal looking person, he can, you know, walk. Yeah, he walks with a limp, you know, and he, when he has to turn his, you know, to see something to the left or the right, you know, you kind of turn. I have to turn my whole body, you know, because my neck doesn't turn right. So yeah, people can be like, oh, okay, yeah, there's something wrong. But they don't know the extent, which causes me to have to, you know, live with this pain. And, you know, as a result of the skull fractures. I suffer severe migraine headaches.

Yeah.

Throughout the week. And, you know, I still see a neurologist for that, so.

Oh, my gosh. So, obviously, my chronic pain is nothing like what you're going through, but I know it's definitely impacted things like parenting and, like, how I'm able to, you know, be involved with my kids at a certain level. What was it like for you, being a parent? And then I know you also were a caregiver to OMA and opa, your parents, as they got older and, you know, OPA had Parkinson's, and so what was it like managing your own pain, like migraines and stuff, but then also being a caregiver and a parent, how did you balance the two?

Well, yeah, I. Fortunately, you know, I was able to go back to work. I did. Wasn't able at that time to pursue going to college. You know, it was like, well, we've got. Obviously, we're going to have lots of bills. We did have a lawsuit, but those lawsuits, it took over six years before there were any monetary gains from the insurance companies. Also, the county was at fault because the stop sign wasn't. The stop sign had been down and the road wasn't maintained properly, which caused, you know, it caused the truck to become airborne and hitting us because of the speed they're going. So anyway, the. You know, when there was a settlement, all it did was take care of the majority of the medical bills that I had sustained from being in two different hospitals, and then all the other, you know, physicians that operate on me and then were caring for me. And so, you know, obviously, because the debt was so big, our credit was ruined. So, yeah, there was no, like, oh, okay, now I'll go back to college. No, it's like, oh, I got to work and provide income for us to live on, you know, and try and start paying back this bill so we can get our credit up. But sorry to. To your question about what it was like. Parenting. Yeah, you know, I love my kids. You know, fortunately, we're able to have two more, but yet dealing with that daily pain and with little kids, you know, they're rambunctious, they're jumping on you, they want to play and, you know, all that. So I had to be very careful doing that and also not to lose my temper because, you know, when you're in pain and it's really bothering you, you have less patience. And so, you know, you can have issues, you know.

Totally.

Yeah. So you have to definitely manage that. So you're not screaming out in anger at them or, you know, which is very hard, you know, and they don't understand. Yeah, that is like, well, what's going on here? So that was something I constantly had to work on, too, because I wanted them to know that, hey, this isn't your fault, what's happened to me. And it's, you know, you're not causing me to feel uncomfortable or whatever. But, yeah, they learned at it. Yeah, they learned at an early age. They know that, hey, yeah, dad, you know, he's. Why is dad in bed, you know, right now? Because he's suffering from a major migraine, you know, and which. And when they get really bad, they cause me to vomit.

Yeah.

A lot. And, you know, I can't be. I can't see light. I can't have, you know, I can't hear sound. I have to be in a complete dark environment. Nothing without any sound, without any movement, and just dealing with getting up and having to, you know, throw up constantly. So anyway, that was, you know, raising children were challenging, but yet, you know, I love them. They're very understanding. They've grown their whole lives. They've known what happens to me and why I behave a certain way and what we can do, what are. What we can do and what we can't do. And, you know, I. I was very active before the accident. You know, I love to. To ski, wakeboard, surf. You know, I love being in the ocean. So those are things I wanted to pass down to my kids. And fortunately, as they got to certain ages, with my limited mobility, I was still able to teach them how to do those things and then, you know, let them take off with that, which was great. Yeah, it was great bonding experience for us. So, yeah, I tried to live as normal as a life as I could, despite, you know, what I was dealing with. And then, yeah, as I, as you mentioned earlier, my parents. Your. Your grandparents. My dad suffered from Parkinson's disease. And then my mom had issues with her lower back and her sciatic nerve. But also she had. I don't even know what you call it, but, you know, she. She had cancer. She developed cancer.

Yeah.

And had to be, you know, seek you know, medical attention and deal with that. So what happened was, is that I, you know, I have several other siblings, and all of my siblings were still raising their kids. My kids were at the age where they were. Some were already working independent, and then younger ones were, you know, going through college. So, you know, I wasn't have to having to take care of my children. Daily. And then, you know, at that time I was. Had gone through a divorce, you know. And so what I was getting at is that, you know, I have these siblings, all my siblings are still raising their children, you know, and then where I was working, I was able to leave my occupation and care for my parents because I didn't have that responsibility, you know, caring for my children. So I was like, yeah, I can help out. Fortunately had my sister Cindy, who lived nearby, my sister April as well. So we were all able to, you know, help be there for my parents. And with my father, it definitely he needed 24 hour care, you know, because he lost a lot of his mobility and had to be assisted, you know, use the restroom, bathe, things like that. So, you know, at night my sisters, you know, weren't able to be there. And he would get up in the middle night and a lot of, as a result, the Parkinson's, he would fall down, he'd have to be picked up. So I was able to do that and be there for, you know, my parents and make, you know, obviously sacrifice it, but love our parents and want to be there for them.

So, yeah, I think it's amazing that you were able to do that even when you were dealing with your own stuff as well, your own pain.

Yeah, it's very challenging. Very challenging.

Yeah, I can imagine.

My dad was still a good sized man, you know. Yeah, he weighed 180 pounds. And you know, I mean, some people say, oh, that's not a lot, but, you know, for someone like me, you know, who weighs less and don't have the mobility, you know, as say, a normal person. So it was challenging, you know, helping him in those instances. Yeah, it would, A lot of times it would trigger a lot more pain. And that was frustrating because, you know, I. There are times that I'm, you know, would feel like, hey, I don't want to have to take increase my, you know, pain medication because this has caused me to go past my limits and which I wasn't happy about because, you know, that that dependency, you know, can get out of hand and you know, as a result of you having to use more because of being in pain. And so, yeah, there were frustrations, you know.

Yeah.

But yeah, that's what we did.

Well, yeah, you do what you gotta do. I got an MRI for my back recently and finally saw what was going on. And they're like, oh, we don't see this in younger people. We usually only see it in older people. And she's like, oh, are you athletic? And I was like, no. But you know, both my kids have multiple disabilities and I've had to carry them way past when you would normally carry kids and bounced my 5 year old on an exercise ball to fall asleep and she's like, oh yeah, that could have done it. And so I can obviously totally different situation. But I can relate with the, you know, taking care of the people that you love, but also how it can sometimes be a sacrifice on your own body too. So I know for me, I've specifically like the careers that I've chosen have been to fit once like my boys being a caregiver for them, but also for my own chronic health issues. And I'm curious, I know you said you weren't able to go to college and play football and sports like you wanted. What other ways has your health impacted your career decisions?

Well, fortunately I was able to in the beginning after I, you know, was mobile, you know, and was able to be functional to work. I was able to do a career in radio and tv, which is great. So that wasn't physical. Yeah. And there wasn't any physical labor. You know, there was, yeah, standing on your feet too long or having to sit too long, which would affect how I felt. Pain wise and very fortunate that I had understanding employers who, you know, if I had to, you know, come in a little later, you know, because I was dealing with a migraine or I have to miss, you know, work or leave an event because of the issues, they were very understanding. So I did that for 15 years. And then as you know, we were talking about earlier, your grandfather owned a construction company and in addition to, you know, building new homes, he also had a contract with military bases. Actually this company called Aphis which runs a lot of the military facilities. And there would be, you know, they're like little mini many towns. If you've ever been on base, it's really great. They have their own stores and things like that, so fast food restaurants and all that. And so, you know, the, the wear and care would be needed to be done by, you know, an outside general contractor for certain projects that they couldn't do themselves on the base. So he had a large territory where you would, you know, work on all the different bases, you know, in different states. And with having Parkinson s developed Parkinson's, you know, definitely was causing him issues where myself, my brother and my sister, you know, basically quit our jobs. And you know, what they were pursuing as well to come and help with the construction company because they needed it to continue so that my dad would have insurance, you know, and be able to care for outside costs that insurance wouldn't cover for exploratory, you know, surgeries and things that he would do to try and manage the Parkinson's better than what normal medical attention wasn't helping out, you know, so he was very open to trying different things. And of course, like I said, some of those things the insurance wouldn't cover, and that will require cash. And so, yeah, we, you know, the construction company was going good at that time, and we were able to, you know, help out and, you know, chose that career. So, yeah, that. Getting back to how it affected me in my daily life doing construction works, of course, you know, you got to get your hands dirty. Dirty. It's very physical work. And you got to do that, you know, and so, yeah, I would do that and as best that I could. And then I. Yeah, I just had to deal with the effects, you know, that that caused on me, you know, with my nerve damage and. Yeah, just had to do it, you.

Know, we do what you gotta do.

Yeah, basically. Right.

Yeah. So I'm sure, you know, you were saying how OPA tried a bunch of different things. I'm sure you've tried a bunch of things, too, to manage your pain. Was there anything that made a real difference for you or that you felt like was really helpful or. Or has pain medication been the most helpful?

Yeah, you're right. I did. Would try anything and everything that they offered. You know, I've had. I. I'm sorry, I don't know the name of the procedure, but, you know, having wires, you know, put into my body, you know, wow. Yeah. Having. I tried everything every way. Definitely. I had multiple shots to my skull with medication that was, you know, new and up and coming, you know, that they would try. My neurologist would try because they. Yeah, I had to have more surgeries on my neck to try to relieve some of the nerve damage, you know, by putting, you know, titanium and things like that into my neck. But as a result of, you know, where the nerve damage is, which is. Right. You know, it's vert, you know, the C1, C2, down to C7. And, you know, with D1 and C2, it's a very, very, you know, trying to do surgery on. On that, you know, is very, very touchy because, you know, any slight mistake can paralyze you or kill you.

Wow.

So my neurosurgeon, you know, they won't do the surgery on me because it' they don't want to have that result Happen. So they're managing it a different way. Yeah, but as I get older, it continues to, you know, get worse and so. But still, you know. Yeah, we're avoiding surgeries and just managing it the other way. Physical therapy and all that still.

Oh, yeah. So what does an average day look like for you now? Is it every day you're dealing with pain and migraines or does it just flare up sometimes? What does that look like?

Well, yeah, again, unfortunately, yeah, I, as a result of nerve damage, you know, I suffer, you know, chronic pain from that. And I do have to management because of, of taking the different kinds of medications that I am and believe me, I try and eliminate as many of them I as I can because I don't want to be on. Have to rely on medication. But there are some things that I can't avoid, so I have to. So a result of that taking it. Yeah, it makes getting up in the morning very, very hard to do because, you know, my body is so just feels like, you know, a hundred pound, you know, metal block is, is, you know, holding me down, you know, and so hard, you know, in the mornings to get going. So yeah, that's rough. And then throughout the day, depending on what I do, you know, there's certain things that can trigger a migraine or, or cause more pain. So I have to watch what I do in that respect. And yeah, the migraines, you have no control on those when they come. So yeah, if I'm hit bad with them, then I just have to stop what I'm doing and try and get relief then. Yeah, it does affect your job, your work, your income. So, yeah, I, I hope that answered that.

Yeah, totally. No, totally. I'm just thinking of all the different ways that pain can impact your life. And I know for me it's also, it can impact like your relationships.

Oh yeah.

And you know, me and my husband are always talking about like, you know, sharing the load because depending on if I'm in a pain flare or something, my sharing the load is going to look different than on a day when I can show up differently. So I'd love to hear how. First of all, if you don't mind sharing, I'd love to hear how you met Eleni and your, you know, your love story. And then also how has your health and chronic pain impacted your relationship dynamic?

Well, I'm very blessed and fortunate to have very understanding wife as well as my children and very fortunate that she's extremely successful in her career and as it is right now, you know, she works full time with my occupation, you know, it's still trying to get things going, you know, so I'm not. I'm not employed full time, but.

Real estate, right?

Yes, I'm a real estate agent.

Cool.

And, yeah, the market right now, it's not so great. So, sure, you know, things are a little tough, but, yeah, how I met my wife, actually. Yeah, I had been divorced for a long time, and my priority was, you know, mainly raising my kids, you know, and. And providing as stable as the household as I could. And so I was doing that and, you know, not pursuing, you know, being on dating scene, so. So frequent, but. Or pursuing that angle. But when I was working for my best friend and. And spending the week with them, you know, because it was. This is before I took care of my parents full time, my friend's wife was like, hey, you should, you know, try dating on the Internet. And I thought, what, like, you know, going on the Internet, that. I just thought that was so cheesy, you know, like, no, I'm old school. I don't. You know, you just happen to meet somebody and you start up a relationship and, you know, you go from there and they're like, no, this is the 21st century. You know, this is how things are. Are done, you know, if you really want to try and find somebody. So she really encouraged me. She helped me put together, like, this profile.

Oh, I love it.

Yeah, I can't remember the. The site I was on. It was not Tinder, didn't go there, or the other one that, you know, you. I can't remember. There's one where you can, you know, have affairs.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, there's crazy stuff out there.

Different world.

Yeah, definitely. So I was on a pretty, definitely safe Internet dating site, and, you know, I was able to meet some people, go on dates, you know, but I just wasn't feeling it. I was on there for just, I think, two or three months, and I was just like, you know, I just don't think this Internet dating's for me, you know, I just wasn't really feeling it. So anyway, I would. I made the decision, like, okay, I'm gonna stop doing this, take my profile down and just. Whatever happens. Whatever happens. And my wife had reached out to me, and she's like, hey, you know, I found your profile, you know, and love to get to know you. Well, she was living in Hawaii. I'm in California. She was actually. She's an Australian. And, you know, she was working for the Australian Consulate in Hawaii. Yeah, working Directly with their person in charge, the consulate general, I believe. But, yeah, she was. Yeah. So she had a great job working in Hawaii, living the. A great life in Hawaii. But she'd reached out to me, so we started corresponding, and then, you know, we were doing that for maybe a month. And then I'm like, well, I don't want to keep doing this without meeting her in person. Right. And so I was like, hey, I want to really see what you're like, if you really are what you say you're, you know, online and in our conversations kind of deal, you know.

Yeah.

Is this legit? So, yeah, I flew over to Hawaii, and fortunately, we have, you know, family friends that live there, so it made it, you know, more conducive to spend time over there. So I was there and we dated, you know, went on dates a few times. I was there, got to get to know each other really well. And yeah, I was, you know, definitely was falling for her. And fortunately, she was having feelings for me. So we would go back and forth. Hawaii, dating. California. Yeah, we did that. Gosh, I went to Hawaii probably three times. And one of those times that, you know, fortunately, I got to meet her parents because they came from Australia to visit her. And then even more fortunate, she was able to find work working for the Australian Consulate in California in Century City. So she made decision to, yeah. Move so that we could date more frequently and pursue our relationship. So. Which we did, you know, it was awesome. We got married. And, yeah, before we went any farther, in the beginning of our relationship, you know, I laid all my cards on the table. I'm like, hey, this is what's happened to me. This is what I live with. You know, and it was basically like, yeah, it's pretty heavy. And if you, you know, don't want to get involved in that kind of relationship with a man who's dealing with this. These issues, you know, I'm telling you what's up. So you. If you are like, yeah, I'm out, you know, I totally understand. But, you know, yeah, I'd be a little. Definitely be bummed because I got love. Anything more for you to be my life partner, you know? Yeah. But, yeah, I had to be completely honest with her and let her know what's up. And through dating, you know, unfortunately, there were incidents where, you know, I would be suffering a severe migraine headache, and she would be there and she would see everything I would go through. Same with if I had an issue with physically, you know, with this, my sciatic nerve or my the results of damage to my neck, where I would be down. And so she, you know, she saw it, you know, raw, you know, she saw it all wrong. So her eyes were completely open, and she still chose, you know, yeah, I can do this. I want to do this. And of course, I was like, yeah, I. I, you know, want to definitely be with you and also trying and. And create a great home life and, you know, life for us, you know, and I definitely had, like I said, I definitely had ambition to pursue, you know, occupation that would hopefully help us, you know, provide for that lifestyle. So the burden wasn't all on her, you know?

Yeah.

And so, yeah, we're working through that.

You know, I just love. I've. I felt I've been on the receiving end where someone can see all of it and still choose you and love you, you know, So I love that, that she saw it all and still, you know, wanted to be with you, of course, because you're amazing. So that's so cool. I'm curious, is there, you know, as we start to wrap up here, has. Is there anything that has surprised you about the life that you've built, or what are you most proud of? Or is there, you know, anything that you wish people would understand about living with chronic pain?

Yeah, you know, well, definitely most proudest of my children. Like, you know, they're great. They. Yeah, they've had a lot to deal with. Yeah, they've had a lot to deal with, you know, not just dealing with, you know, a father that has all of these health issues, you know, and is limited in the things he can do or be there for them. And then, unfortunately, they're. They don't have a great relationship with their mom. And so, you know, there's a lot they deal with. But despite all that, they've gone on to have amazing careers, you know, and they're all very talented. So I don't know where, you know, definitely they didn't get all their amazing talents from me, you know, And I just. I sit back and I'm. Oh, come on.

I saw your band. I saw you in the band with your long hair.

Yeah, yeah. Like I said earlier, you know, you can't let these ailments ruin, you know, the life you want to live. You just have to, you know, you just manage it, you know, but, yeah, that. That's. That. And how. How I feel about other people, you know, I. I definitely don't look for people for sympathy or, hey, look at me. I'm this way. You know, you shouldn't have compassion for me or none of that stuff. You know, I just. I. I try, definitely try and hide it from people. Yeah, I definitely. I'm very conscientious of when we're out and about or. Or with other people that aren't family, that I try and give the appearance that everything's fine, you know, but. Yeah, you know, I just. The people that do are aware of it, you know, are very compassionate. And then just, you know, other than that, I just, you know, try to live your life. Yeah, exactly. I did.

You know, is there anything. If someone was just, you know, starting on the journey of chronic pain, you know, maybe from an accident or something, is there anything that you would say to them specifically?

Yeah, I think the main thing is with anybody who's suffering from that, you're not only dealing with the physical ramification of, you know, the limitations you have physically with your mobility or the pain that it's causing you, you know, and you just can't make it through the day. And dealing with that automatically brings on depression, like huge amounts of depression, which you didn't want, you know, that just came on. So you. That's a whole other bag of things that you have to deal with. That's crazy. You know, the depression, it's real. No one, you know, you don't ask for it to come into your life, but it does. Doesn't care. And there. And it's real. And so, yeah, you have to manage that as well. Dealing with how you can't let that depression beat you down so much that it changes your outlook on life. And telling somebody that's new to dealing with it, I would just say it's real. I would be very, very weary of taking. I think they're called SRIs, you know, like Valium and depression or other medications to try and change your mood. You know, a lot of times, decisions, you know, who are lazy, that's the first thing they'll do is they'll just give you pills. Here, take these and, you know, be on your way. And those pills can drastically, you know, change your mental outlook. Definitely stay on top of it, of how you feel and communicate that with your physician and with your spouse, and if it's not working or whatever, get off it. But yeah, that it's real. Having endured all these years, being in constant pain, because you are. You're in constant. When you have chronic pain, It's. It's there 24 7. And all you're trying to do is just get some relief for so many hours in the day so that you can be as normal of a person as you can be and still, you know, enjoy life. But, yeah, those. There are days when that depression can overtake you. And it's when you are experiencing those times that you really have to force yourself to, you know, think positively and try and get out of that deep, dark hole as best as you can. And that might be just looking at your children, at their faces, or even touching them. For me, obviously, my wife, you know, her countenance, her smile, her lifting words of encouragement, it's being my grandchildren who I love dearly, and the joy that they bring me. But even having all those positive reinforcement people in your life. I'm sorry, but the devil is real. And the devil loves nothing more than to really come on strong when you are, you know, in that depressive state of mind. And, you know, the choice disease offers you to feel better, it's definitely not the way to go, you know, so you have to fight him off as well. And it's like, for me, like I tell my wife, it's a daily dance with the devil, you know, do I beat him or do I succumb to what he's offering me, which is, you know, not good for myself or my family, you know, because there's nothing coming back from what he wants me to do. But it's real.

Totally.

I tell people it's real. And you need to tell your loved ones, you know, you need to. If you need to shout it from a rooftop, you have to rooftop to tell them. Hey, I know you can't see it. No, everything looks normal. But it's there in my life. And I hate it that it's in my life, but sometimes I'm too weak to overcome it. And I'm gonna need your help and support. I'm sorry I'm putting that burden on you, but I do need your help, you know, on those dark days.

Yeah.

So hopefully you have that support system around you.

Totally. I've also dealt with depression and stuff like that.

And I bet I know your. Your daily challenges. Challenges are huge. You know, you. And you do an amazing job. You really to do.

And I do think I love what you're saying of being open with people. Like when I was finally able to tell my husband and that he could be aware of it. And I know it sounds morbid, but keeping an eye on me sometimes, I've needed that. And so I really value what you're saying.

And it's not. It's not morbid. Like I said, it's so real. And they need to understand that, because the devil doesn't sleep. He's there 24 hours, and he loves nothing more than to, you know, fill you full of, you know, all the wrong choices. You know, he'll make them look really attractive. But the end result is not good for you, not good for your family. So, yeah, they need to be aware. And, you know, I'm so fortunate that, as you said, you have to be open with your loved ones. And I'm glad you brought that up to him because, you know, I've shared this with my own siblings, and they'll fly in a moment's notice to be by my side to help bring me, you know, out of that depressive state.

Yeah. I just think I feel really grateful that we're so lucky to have an amazing family that all shows up for each other. And I really appreciate you coming on and talking about your experiences. And I just think that you can empathize with people in a very unique way because of the experiences that you've experienced yourself. So thank you so much for being here.

I really appreciate them. I love you to death. You know, and unfortunately, you know, we have this distance between us, but like you said, we do have an amazing family that shows up as big as our family is, and it continues to grow. But we just have that great bond that, you know, that's there for us, and we need to take advantage of it. Definitely.

Yeah. Well, thank you so much.

You're welcome.

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