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That awkward post-Thanksgiving, pre tax season feeling
Episode 165th December 2021 • Strategy and the Virtual Controller • Penny Breslin & Damien Greathead
00:00:00 00:36:07

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Post thanksgiving, pre tax season is an interesting time in an accounting firm. For most providers it’s considered peak selling time, or alternatively the last chance to close a deal before tax season. For practitioners many think it’s their last chance to get new systems and tools implemented.

We’ve recently received a number of emails from listeners trying to fast track their software selections asking for our recommendations. But unfortunately it’s not that easy and our responses always begin with “it depends”. It depends on what your trying to build. And this takes us back to our first ever episodes - what are you trying to do in your firm? What services do you want to provide? What types of clients do you want to work with?

Given where we are in the year - instead of trying to implement something new - spend that time focusing on what why you want to do post tax season. Start the planning process now by identifying what you don’t want to do anymore. Write it down somewhere, add to it, and leave it. Then attack it in May. Your team will thank you for it.

We’re here to help in any way we can. Get in touch via LinkedIn.

Penny Breslin - LinkedIn | @PennyB57

Damien Greathead - LinkedIn | @Damien_GH

Transcripts

00:05.82

satvcpodcast

Strategy in the virtual Controller ladies and gentlemen. We're back with our next episode and my name's damien Grahead My co-host is Penny Breslin Penny How are you.

00:14.20

penny

Do find dammi and how are you doing you have a good thanksgiving down there in the Southern hemisphere

00:19.30

satvcpodcast

Yeah, it was quite interesting. Not quite all the the trimmings of a traditional thanksgiving but nonetheless it was absolutely lovely. So with a bit of a tinge of jealousy looking at Instagram and and photos of the family back in the us celebrating. But no, we we. We were able to take some time out and um, remind ourselves what we're thankful for which was great. How about yourself.

00:42.49

penny

Great small family gathering. Nice and no turkey which was even better. Ah, and ah my son walking out of his hound's house phone was the best damn Thanksgiving dinner.

00:47.85

satvcpodcast

Um.

00:57.70

satvcpodcast

Um, look high high praise. So and and big boots to fill um and edric sgravy. Oh fantastic.

00:58.83

penny

But ever had She did a fantastic job so I was not a lame. Yeah, but yeah and Rick's gravy. It was great.

01:11.77

satvcpodcast

We have to put a recipe up online. Um, and you'll be able to find that recipe no just joking. Um, but you'll be able to find the the previous episodes and and transcripts as well. We've um, we've just found out how to do transcripts. So if you are looking for transcripts I think you'll need to go to Satvc Dot co.

01:13.55

penny

Now. Ah.

01:29.38

satvcpodcast

Ah s a v c dot co and you can get the transcripts and any articles or books that we might reference in the episode. You can find all of that there. But as well. You can download the episode listen to the episode subscribe to the episode apple podcast spotify podcast google podcasts wherever you find. Your favorite podcasts today penny um, it's been interesting. We've been doing the podcast for a while now on ah a regular and consistent basis which or semiconsistent basis which which is great. Um, we've had some interesting calls come in to both of us um of accountants and bookkeepers. That are listening along that that want to start making the change. Um and it's been really interesting because you you have a lovely email exchange and and then you tee up some time and jump on the phone and I sort of get this sense that people are looking for us to. To provide the the blueprint um, the exact answers I don't know what you've you've been thinking when you've spoken to people that have gotten in touch. But I've sort of said I've I've heard what do I do next what? What apps do I use. Um. What what services should I provide I've I've heard a lot of those questions. What have you heard.

02:47.83

penny

Um, people this has happened 3 times now where I've gotten you know I have this cat I use my calendar in my in my email and people will you know make appointments and you know and so.

03:01.74

satvcpodcast

It's very easy to make a appointment with you as well like.

03:06.62

penny

But you know it's also it actually it's in conducive to business. So um, so and I don't mark it so I guess it's okay, but you know it's always I heard this 1 tell me how to do this and it's like and I always start with step 1

03:09.46

satvcpodcast

Um, yep.

03:20.10

satvcpodcast

Um.

03:25.73

penny

What are you doing now and what is it that you want to do? What is it that you want to do in the future which goal how do you want to change this ah are you asking me? how. Based on what you do now. How do you maintain? what you're doing now and what's the new technology to maintain it um and technology not necessarily is everything technology is okay who what's the new process to maintain it so you know it's always goes back to the first question is you can't jump. Halfway through building a firm of the future if I want to use somebody else's tagline without stepping back and going back to the first question from the first podcast we ever do which is what do you want to do? What do you want to do give me 5 things that you want. Do within your company.

04:23.42

satvcpodcast

And I think that's a really interesting question again and and it's it's it's quite funny. Um I don't ask for 5 questions but I just sort of say well, what's the end goal What do you want to achieve what I I do go with what do you want to change what about you doing now that you want to change but I I must admit. I haven't had any conversations where they're able to clearly articulate the change that they want to make why they want to change it and and what they want the business to look like in six months time in twelve months time um I can't imagine do people. Ah. Ah, people able to rattle off 5 things for you.

05:01.45

penny

No, not so far. Well, it's they think they have but they can't they can't come up with 5 or they they will It's a you know if they're an individual firm. It's a little bit easier. If they're an individual or a 1 to 2 person firm business. It's a little bit easier but you start adding people into the mix then it's like is everybody else on board you know and and and you were being I was listening to what you just said and I was saying you're being very esoteric being very high level there on there.

05:31.70

satvcpodcast

Um, yeah.

05:41.20

penny

Questions I started what services are you going to get what what? exactly exactly.

05:42.31

satvcpodcast

Yeah, well I find they're looking for me to provide that answer that they are. They're asking me what services should I provide and and and I sort of launch into well you could do this this this but I but I you know I jump in to answer the question as as we sometimes incline to do. Versus well hold up I have no idea what do you like to do like what services. Do you like what services. Do. You don't like do you like doing individual tax. Do you like doing um bookkeeping it's sort of it's funny. It's I can rattle off every suggestion. But if if it doesn't resonate with you and if if it doesn't um. I not sure ifites use the right word but if it if it doesn't get you out of bed each day. It's going to be It's going to be very difficult to implement change and stick with the change without this clear defining. Direction vision goal. Um, it's sort of an exercise in futility in many ways.

06:37.70

penny

For yeah and agreed and there are certain things that if you're gonna have a company that's going to grow. You're probably not always going to provide a service that you just like to do you know you became a parent this year

06:51.83

satvcpodcast

Um, yeah.

06:57.33

satvcpodcast

Look.

06:57.45

penny

It will become very apparent to you that there things you you are just going to have to do whether you like it or not and um, so but I want exactly so but you know if you.

07:02.81

satvcpodcast

Um, yeah at all hours of the day.

07:15.28

penny

Figure out what you want to do figure out what you don't like to do and then if if what you don't like to do is critical to the overall goal that you are asking them about. Find ways to either mitigate having to do that or find ways to put that into another little funnel a silo thin your company. Um and like this 1 person I was speaking to. Just last week who called me about this you know they have an offshore location. Not mine. They don't use my company that's fine I that's cool. Um, but that offshore location does all the work. That nobody else wants to do in the firm and they have 5 people that work for them and that's a great way for them to segment out that work that nobody wants to do and that allows them the space. We've used this term a lot lately. Oup episode is having space that gives the space for the ah for the account managers in the us to focus on those items that a higher level and.

08:27.75

satvcpodcast

Um, ah.

08:45.53

penny

Even in my small little outsourcing company had the conversation last night with chimi and de miller and where they've brought up. They go you know this isn't work work. We weren't doing we.

09:00.19

satvcpodcast

Are.

09:03.70

penny

We know that we have to do it and they very rarely touch that work. They've got other work that they enjoy doing and when it comes in they segregated out to a different team and. I can I can see their eyes light up sometimes like oh we're gonna get to do this and they'll ah oh I'll take that 1 I'll take that 1 Um and they're all over it and and loving it and you can see how much more enjoyable their day is when they've done the work that they enjoy doing. And there are other people in our in our teams that enjoy doing the stuff that they don't that they don't want to do that. They they spent years having to do in order to grow this company and but these other folks love doing it and find it just right where they want to be.

09:39.90

satvcpodcast

Um, yep.

09:55.22

penny

And I've got the the bandwidth to be able to do that and that's really pleasant and but really, what is it that you want to do I Don't think you can answer the question of which technology you're going to use what kind of people you're going to Hire. Um. Without knowing what do you want to do.

10:15.48

satvcpodcast

And and if if if anything you're actually just going to spin your wheels and you'll have another year of frustration because you haven't haven't had forward momentum so to speak because it is really easy to get distracted by a new service offering by a new shiny app. By a new shiny client that that that you like that you sort of get along with that might might have been a referral but doesn't actually fit with your business model. But you take them on anyway. So again without that space to think about who you want to be when you grow up. I think there's a big challenge because you you can get distracted very easily um and you don't get that forward momentum to achieving again. A firm of the future. It's not quite your firm of the future or your future firm. Um, because you because you you don't have that clear direction and and I was just sort of thinking as you were saying some of the calls that you had and and getting some space. It's like we've just come out of thanksgiving and sort of bit of a um for listeners we we typically. Pre-record weeks in advance. But this this 1 is actually we'll put this 1 up straight away because we have just had thanksgiving but tax season is very much on the horizon and so my sort of thought was what's 1 thing that you want to take off your plate now. Coming into tax season that will free up some space for you to think about your future firm. Um, and and I don't ah I didn't mean for this to be a plug for for penny and money penny. But but that might be a solution of how do you actually make sure that this. Activity that that is not your favorite thing but you know you've got to get it done. Um, how do you free up space. Ah in your day partnering with an outsourcing Bpo might be the way to do it.

12:11.19

penny

That could be I and thank you for that. But there's also I think and that is that that's what that's obviously we've had a busy. We've had a busy month we had five clients onboard store. So obviously somebody out there is thinking about it. But.

12:23.50

satvcpodcast

Um, well, that's good.

12:30.48

penny

But also I think that um I think the other thing that has come up in mother of god every year it happens right around this time of year and it's like what's the new work. What's what workflow should I be in.

12:42.46

satvcpodcast

Um, yep.

12:50.48

penny

Ah, what technology should I use for tax to do in tax return. So and I'm going wait a minute. Why are you asking me this the third week of November could you tell me we going to help the time to to convert.

13:00.56

satvcpodcast

What have you been doing? yeah.

13:10.17

penny

So that that's that comes up always in November I've had probably I don't know how many of those emails like what would you recommend and and you know I think I think the thing is that if you are seriously thinking about making. Some kind of technology change bite the bullet and and document every moment you're uncomfortable with whatever it is. You're using now and get through this season with it and then really use notion.

13:43.81

satvcpodcast

Um, yeah.

13:49.87

penny

Use the new Microsoft loop whatever it is throw up a loom video um and record something you do and go god and and put it in the I don't want to do this next genilele and just file it off then and just just keep on doing that while you're working throughout this set. Tax season and then revisit it when you take your break in April and come back in May when and really seriously make a decision then to make change.

14:24.25

satvcpodcast

Um, yet.

14:28.11

penny

Because it's going to take you from may until the next busy scene because realistically if you are doing taxes and if you doing bookkeeping for a company that does taxes. You know you're going to be busy in august ah, and and in october.

14:39.73

satvcpodcast

Yeah.

14:47.30

penny

So You've got like small windows to make a choice and you're trying to make a choice while you're looking at all the apps. My thought is why don't you look at what you do and find the things that you don't like and go find Apps. That will either remove that pain or ease that pain for you.

15:10.70

satvcpodcast

And and spend some time now becoming really clear on that because I think that will improve your conviction when April may does roll around but you know as you say that I was like back at Receipt bank. We always knew that this top view was peak selling season into the accounting. Into the accounting body and and and and it was um, but everyone was peak selling into the accounting into the accounting channel and you're right? You've you've got everything going on from on the client side of things from a tax planning perspective and and preparing for tax season. And then trying to implement new technology train your team. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, while selling season was great implementation season was not so was not so effective.

15:57.87

penny

No, this is a congress this is another conversation with the client a couple well was about 2 months ago and she said between between having to do all these like whether they're virtual live shows. To find the apps that I need to introduce myself to the vendors to learn and to into and to info my team learn with all that and then you know and now we're not going to live shows as much as it's like a constant barrage of a virtual meeting virtual me virtual meeting and then.

16:30.71

satvcpodcast

Ah, another webinar goodness. Ah.

16:34.31

penny

Yeah, another webinar Jesus motherhood and and then and then you've got clients who are knocking on the door. Don't I haven't yet met anybody this year who isn't having their phones go off the hook. But businesses who have come to see the value of ah of having good numbers and controlling expenses and controlling cash flow and knowing they need an accountant or a bookkeeper to help them with that and so this it is just it was like there was a never ending garage.

16:54.65

satvcpodcast

Are.

17:13.60

penny

Wait and it's not just if you're not doing taxes that's fine. Um, if you're not doing taxes. You're probably even more busy. We've got clients who 1 firm I was talking to said. Okay, we've got this vertical going primarily with services and stuff and they listed the types of services. Professional services. Do and they said now we're getting into e-commerce and I said oh my god that's a whole nother ball of wa do you realize what you have to learn if you're going to get involved in e-commerce and and it's not like dealing with an engineering company who does their billing once a month know you're dealing with.

17:36.68

satvcpodcast

Um.

17:45.89

satvcpodcast

Um, hundreds of transactions a day.

17:51.83

penny

Um, oh yeah, I mean like I told him I said I onboarded a client years ago who was a startup and you know within a year we would do in 3 hundred and fifty transaction allocations a day for that and they weren't even b to c they were. You know they were b to b and it it just you you so you know you're gonna add, you're gonna add on this protocol and your team is based on doing services. that's that's ah that's a whole different mindset It's even a whole different.

18:12.80

satvcpodcast

Um, not um.

18:29.78

satvcpodcast

Um, yeah.

18:30.65

penny

Black dress of apps that you're going to be dealing with and it's a group of clients that are on ah not I'm not going to be willing to talk to you twice a year they go want. They're gonna be 1 talking to you a lot. Ah.

18:39.66

satvcpodcast

Yeah, yeah, and and you you think about the the team that you just mentioned there having them to spin up a new skill set. Can you imagine what they're thinking and and again. Finding and keeping good quality people continues to be number 1 number 2 problem facing the the industry can you imagine what they're thinking if if you're trying to spin up something New. Um, coming into tax season.

19:08.00

penny

Oh yeah, really I get I can guarantee you oh his his this is this isn't even affirmed this just happened not even an hour ago I'm doing a major remodeled in in the house and so I was. Shopping around for contractors and over thanksgiving I came to the inc conclusionion on which 1 I was gonna take and they came over today to do the final and get the deposit and he is giving me the contract and all the information decided I'm just staring at him going Jesus. You know you could do all of this digitally and like and you want me to write you a physical check and I had to go digging through a file and get my safe because that's where I put the Checkbook like long time ago. Yeah, and and I'm going and you know.

19:44.69

satvcpodcast

Are.

19:56.17

satvcpodcast

Um, years ago.

20:02.67

penny

Young. He's very young kid. He's by you know, but I said he said I don't know he goes.

20:07.70

satvcpodcast

We're going to say we we you about say's probably my age and then you realized yeah, that's what you I think you're about to say it is's about your age but then you were like oh actually no you. He's younger.

20:10.89

penny

What is place me is younger than you old man. Ah so like him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you know I got it was funny I said he goes well they like it this way at the office I said oh you mean your bookkeepers do he goes? yeah and we got to make life easy for them.

20:34.54

satvcpodcast

Are.

20:37.53

penny

And I'm going and how is all this paid I mean I signed my initials I get everything's highlighted I mean can you imagine the amount of and it was you know duplicates of everything and off this nice little folder and I said do you mind of it now that I've given you 1 check.

20:46.47

satvcpodcast

Um, yeah.

20:54.36

penny

If I don't call your boss and forgot Ac this stuff to you in the future because I don't want to be writing checks. It just no I do not well I do not want a and startship client I don't like I don't you know me I'm commitment folks.

20:59.73

satvcpodcast

I Don't know you got to be careful Penny. You'll probably pick up a new client out of it. Yeah well I know but I but I think that's actually really important you like? No no I know I Definitely don't want a construction company. Whereas I don't think um, a lot of accounting firms have that same discipline I Always remember the accounting firm that I walked in that I worked in and and very briefly but it was always like oh what industry are you in and and it might be nonprofits oh where experts in nonprofits.

21:32.62

penny

Yeah.

21:35.27

satvcpodcast

We we might have done a nonprofit audit you know 4 years ago or something 5 years ago but but we always put on the veneer that we were experts in in whatever walk through the door. Yeah.

21:44.63

penny

We have been walked. It. Yeah God That'll go into. Ah you know that that's another thing somebody said So What do you use? you know I'm going Unfortunately I don't have the luxury that I'm telling you you could have because I have to build teams based on black dress. I can't have a team do an outsourcing using 20 different apps that do the same thing because it's inefficient I need to go? Okay, what are the apps, the firm uses and then go let's go. Let's go put them on this team because those guys they have this app dialed in.

22:14.81

satvcpodcast

Are.

22:24.19

penny

And so you know so in fact I was going through some details you know, pulling up data and looking at the way they were putting in their time and their notes and realizing we've got to bifurcate those a little bit more get a little bit more detailed on our. Ah, not just our services but our tasking so that we can track who and what teams are doing the best on which apps and then you know where we have to fill in the training and or where the next customer uses that series of apps which team they get put on.

22:51.88

satvcpodcast

Are.

23:02.32

penny

So but like so I can't I can't say we use this workflow. We're in you know, funny different. Yeah I can't say we use this online bill pay wherein every 1 of them that's out there right now. Um you know that kind of thing I can't say we use just this 1 payroll.

23:05.90

satvcpodcast

Um, yeah, you use 7 different workflows. Yeah.

23:22.16

penny

Because we're in every 1 of them that's out there. So um, but 1 thing I can do is tell you which 1 I think is the best support. But then you know even that. Um.

23:32.29

satvcpodcast

Um, ah yeah.

23:39.30

penny

That was another conversation I mean everything revolves around the set all the steps and I hate to plug the the book Mom I don't hi. Um, it's I don't want to I don't want to feel like I'm you know, being self-efaccing? Yeah, but realistically if you don't go back and Revisit. And if you don't look at all the points like when you pick in technology. It's not just the price. It's not just the service that you're performing. It's what kind of support you're going to get from that app and those people and and who in your company is is willing to take on. That intermediary because just this morning I had an app that was acting up and by 35 I got several emails from east coast clients going hey can you tell me what's going on and what's wrong with this I'm like why did you call me because you recommended it to us. You know so you've got it. You've got to. You got to know that when you recommend apps to clients that you have to have somebody who's going to be there to to talk to them. Everything go everything goes in a step. You can't just jump into reimagining your business without going through the baby steps of starting with what do you want. Where do you want to go with it who is going to be working on it. What's the technology you going to use and what kind of client are you gonna have um, what's ah no only you can do that only you can decide that.

25:02.18

satvcpodcast

And we can't tell you that? Yeah yeah, um, and and you're you're not particularly self- promoting penny but I don't have any problems doing it. Um, the the book that we have been talking About. We actually just came up with the title. And and it will be released in the coming weeks. It's it's Called. It's not just the numbers. Um, and and we undenared about the title for quite some time but this is but this is basically penny's process that she goes through with her clients accounting firms to help them identify get themselves. Future fit. Whatever that might be but but actually how do we go through a method um methodology to to to enact change and to stick with that change and and we we focused on the title. It's not just the numbers because. So much more than the numbers. Um, related to running an accounting firm and I think a lot of practitioners as we've said um, they're small business owners running a business that does accounting and so a lot of these principles about setting you vision and and setting your goals and what is it that you want to do. Often get glossed over because practitioners are ah just churning out the work churning out the next tax return taking on the next client um closing the next set of books without really taking time to think about what they like doing what they don't like doing what type of clients they like working with. And and this is really this This is not number related and that's why it's It's not just the numbers I think is really important for listeners to realize they've got to do that that groundwork of what they want their business to be because otherwise you'll you'll. Build ah an accounting business probably quite quickly but it'll suck the life out of you.

26:54.90

penny

Oh yes, it will. Um I've got a little piece of that that happened that's that's happened with me because I do take on direct clients. Um, mainly for Guinea Pig Purposes. And um, yeah, they do stat suck in the life out of you and and and it's it's not them I mean it's not their fault. It's not their fault and but it does it can be I've I've watched it with other I'm very quick to tell people you know.

27:20.27

satvcpodcast

Yeah.

27:31.69

penny

I'll help you get so far and then I'm going to help you find somebody who will carry you next on I have no problem with that. But I've I've watched over the years I've watched people get tired get ah, get somewhat disenfranchised in and somewhat disillusioned.

27:33.53

satvcpodcast

Are.

27:50.60

penny

And and and and they have the all they do is listen to the complaining clients because and that can drag you down. Um, when I was in getting my teaching degree. Um something when I was doing special ed.

27:54.35

satvcpodcast

Um, yeah.

28:09.39

penny

Something a special ed professor told me she said she said you know I worked in the schools with special Ed kids for for years and she said what I realized is that every time I looked at any child I was looking for this that special need that. She said I started putting them all into that but they a special ed they have to be there is some kind of disability or there's some kind of thing that I yeah I have to fix there and I think that sometimes if we look at our businesses and all we're doing is putting out fires in crisis management. I wonder how the hell you guys get up in the morning. But yeah, really too.

28:48.13

satvcpodcast

o run payroll trying to run a:

31:25.17

satvcpodcast

And then again come back after taxis and sit down with the team and and sort of say right? We know we don't like doing this. How do we take care of it. Do we outsource it. Do we see if there's technology that can do it but I really like those 2 activities and and um, any other.

31:42.59

penny

And yeah, well I would I would take that notion right there and add 1 more thing to add into the I don't want to do this folder is and when you're in the middle of you doing doing something not just necessarily a task but you utilizing an app. Ah you're communicating with the client.

31:43.17

satvcpodcast

Sort of tips.

32:00.93

penny

Also note what part of that you don't like it's not you might maybe you like doing this service but it's either this client or this part of the technology that you're using to finish the service whether that technology is stone knives and Biskins. Or it's a top of the line dropdown downloaded mobile app. What aspect of that don't you like and and get into the aspect. The 1 thing that you don't like about it because 1 it might change in the future because they might be updating their app. They're going to come up with updates or 2 Now go into these conferences thought that's thought in May and have that book of this is what I don't want to do have that in front of you and go. Okay, what here fits is not part of that which 1 of these things do not fit into that folder and now I'm gonna instead of focusing.

32:48.10

satvcpodcast

Are.

32:56.49

penny

Now I'm going to focus on the some. The 1 thing that I see that is actually going to maybe be a different or a better difference.

33:03.24

satvcpodcast

Yeah, and and also maybe the the other bit and and I'll um pipe down is don't put the pressure on yourself now at the year end coming into tax season to introduce a new workflow tool a new. Um.

33:12.32

penny

Oh.

33:21.21

satvcpodcast

Practice management something a new expense management tool and and um, yeah, don't put that pressure on yourself and don't put that pressure on your team because I think it will will only cause additional frustration.

33:32.64

penny

Yeah, yeah, because in another you know everybody's gonna kind of chill out after december fifteenth and they're gonna check out for a while and then they're gonna come back in January and and the the the feces are gonna hit the ventilator pump.

33:47.79

satvcpodcast

Um.

33:52.84

penny

Don't be trying to change stuff then but do give everybody that a place to put there I didn't like doing that or I didn't like this thing reacted and and whether you do it in notion or just click loom on your computer and record the screen or.

33:57.49

satvcpodcast

Yeah, like that.

34:08.65

penny

Just double tap the back of your phone and do a screenshot I don't care but find a folder and put it all in and then once you put it in that folder. Forget about it. Don't let it eat you up. Don't just move on forget about it get on to the next thing finish up. Whatever it is that you were doing and and then back in may.

34:17.00

satvcpodcast

Yep.

34:27.28

penny

Open it up and go yeah I remember that feeling yeah I remember that feeling I don't want to have that 1 again.

34:30.19

satvcpodcast

Let's tackle. Let's tackle them 1 by 1 yeah, um so penny I think that's a really good spot to to leave today's episode but what I would say is is listeners. We love your emails and love your phone calls so please. Um, but. Recognize that we will always come back to that first question of of what it is that you want to do so um, keep your emails coming in find us on Linkedin connect on linkedin send us your messages. Um, and if if you want us to discuss on in 1 of the episodes or alternatively set up some time. Ah, to discuss 1 to 1 more than happy to do that as well. So you can find us easily enough on linkedin. There's not too many penny breslins and I don't think there's any other damien greatheads so connect with us. There. Let us know that you're listening to the podcast and we'll so we'll tee up a time to to have a chat. Um. Last request is if you are enjoying it folks jump on and and write us a review give us ah a star rating because that'll help us get the word out. So I'd I'd appreciate um, any help on on that front as well. But penny um, really enjoyed our sort of a post- thanksgiving episode I think we'll we'll have to get the ah the book. Finalized once and for all and and up online and hopefully in ah in people's Christmas stockings for some ah for some for some for some light reading over the the Holiday period. Yeah penny. Thank you very much look forward to our next episode.

35:48.23

penny

I'll bring all bunch the other okay all right byebye.

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