Shownotes
To get you in the cozy holiday spirit, Kelly and Sara are throwing down some of their best women's sports book and movie recommendations.
But, first, this week's women's sports highlights:
- 55 women hit the Olympic Trials qualifying standard at CIM — even though the standard (2:37) is faster than ever! And a shoutout to Molly Born, who won the race in her first marathon, despite a fall in the final straightaway.
- And you should be following SkiMo (ski mountaineering)! Where it all came down to the U.S. vs. Canada for the final Olympic spot. Enter Anna Gibson, world-class trail runner, who was recruited and secretly turned out to be amazing! (It's Kelly's dream.)
- Bonus shoutout to Alysa Liu, who won the Grand Prix in figure skating in her comeback-to-the-Olympics tour.
…like we were saying — a few follow-ups:
- The highest-paid women athletes in 2025. Why are 10 of the top 15 tennis players? Thank you, Billie Jean King.
- The NWSL rejected Trinity Rodman’s contract deal, which is not a good look for the league.
- And the WNBA is still hashing out CBA issues. What's the latest?
Then: Our full list of women's sports book & movie recs
Kelly and Sara are deep in movies-and-books season, which prompted us to pull together some of our Feisty favs. Some of the ones mentioned in the episode:
- A League of Their Own
- Love & Basketball
- Bend It Like Beckham
- Bring It On
- The Cutting Edge
- Personal Best
- Challengers
Sara isn't much of a movie-watcher, but she does love books!
- Good for a Girl, Lauren Fleshman
- Better Faster Farther, Maggie Mertens
- The Longest Race, Kara Goucher
- Money, Power, Respect: How Women in Sports Are Shaping the Future of Feminism, Macaela MacKenzie
- Tough Broad, Caroline Paul
- Little Girls in Pretty Boxes, Joan Ryan
- In These Girls Hope Is a Muscle, Madeleine Blais
- We Loved to Run, Stephanie Reents
- Carrie Soto Is Back, Taylor Jenkins Reid
- The Favorites, Layne Fargo
- As Good as Gold, Kathryn Bertine
- Stand, Kathryn Bertine
- Tough Broad, Caroline Paul
- Up to Speed, Christine Yu
- Endure, Alex Hutchinson
- Shoe Dog, Phil Knight
- For kids: Anything from Strong Girl Publishing, plus Molly Hurford's Shred Girls series
What are your recs? What did we miss? Send us a voice memo to podcasts@livefeisty.com
Plus, our Feisty Picks of the week!
Chapters:
- 01:10 - The women are getting fast and the depth is getting deep
- 6:50 - SkiMo!
- 18:55 - Let's follow-up on the money
- 37:00 - Our women's sports movie and book recs
- 52:45 - Feisty Picks of the Week
Subscribe to The Feist, our Free Weekly Newsletter covering Women's Sports: https://feisty.co/feistnews/
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Transcripts
All right, Feisties.
Speaker A:This is your favorite and feistiest women's sports show.
Speaker A:All the why behind what's happening in your favorite sports.
Speaker A:I'm Kelly o'.
Speaker A:Meara.
Speaker B:And I'm Sarah Gross.
Speaker B:And this week, we have so many fast runners.
Speaker B:We have the highest paid athletes of the year, an update on the WNBA's collective bargaining agreement.
Speaker B:And Kelly does the beer division at a ski mountaineering event.
Speaker A:I feel like you missed the whole, like.
Speaker A:And holiday movie and book recommendations.
Speaker B:Oh, yes.
Speaker A:We're gonna do all of the best things.
Speaker A:I feel like this is the season where you sit and you watch a lot of movies.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker A:So we're gonna have all of the best women's sports.
Speaker B:All of the.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Women's sports, movies and book recommendations also coming up.
Speaker B:I was just, like, trying to think of, like, what would I.
Speaker B:What would I wanna stay on to listen to?
Speaker B:And I definitely would want the WNBA collective marketing agreement update.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And now I totally want to hear your story about the beer deficiency.
Speaker A:Oh, that's what you were trying to tease everybody about my beer.
Speaker B:I was teasing them, like, just wait.
Speaker A:Just wait.
Speaker B:So the story better be good, Kelly.
Speaker A:I actually.
Speaker A:Okay, we will get to schema in a second because that was the craziest sports thing of the weekend, I think.
Speaker A:But the second craziest was the 55 women who hit the Olympic trials marathon standard at the California National Marathon.
Speaker A:55.
Speaker A:And it's 2:37 now is the standard.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So 55 women ran under 2:37?
Speaker B: ah, I mean, I remember was it: Speaker B:And I've never been to a crazier or a more impressive, I guess, sports event than watching 500 Women.
Speaker B:I've said this before, but it's still.
Speaker B:It like, sits in my psyche.
Speaker B:Like 500 women running under 245 for a marathon in the same place at the same time.
Speaker B:And watching them run by is insane.
Speaker B:So I can only imagine that this as well with 55 women running under 237.
Speaker A:Well, I think, like, what's.
Speaker A:I mean, what's.
Speaker A: was the standard for: Speaker A:And so we had the 512 women qualify for their trials.
Speaker A:And then they were like, okay, that was too many, which I, you know, whatever.
Speaker A:And they down.
Speaker A:They downed it.
Speaker A:They dropped it to 237 as the standard.
Speaker A:And I think the general consensus was, like, that's gonna be a lot smaller.
Speaker A: And so for: Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It was only 170, 173 women.
Speaker A:But what you can see now is there's a lot of, there is a more than a few women.
Speaker A: omen who hit that standard in: Speaker A:Yeah, you can see that, like the progression there, which is awesome.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's like you gave an entire generation of just like, just, just sub Olympic level marathon runners a new goal of 2:37 and boom, now they're all starting to catch up and run it.
Speaker A:And so cim, the marathon here, it's like they have really leaned into being the place for these kind of sub elite runners.
Speaker A:It's an 8,000 person marathon where like a thousand people run under three hours.
Speaker A:Wow, that's a very high proportion.
Speaker A:So there are just these huge groups of Women going after sub 3 or sub 2:45 or the Olympic trial standard.
Speaker A: en have already qualified for: Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Which is more than half that qualified last time.
Speaker A:So you know, we still have two and a half years, three years.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I'm just reading your notes here, but you said like 105 women ran under 245 and then 255 ran under three hours, which is.
Speaker A:So my husband did this race a couple years ago and he ran like a 258 something.
Speaker A:And you're like, oh, that's pretty good.
Speaker A:No, he was like 997th.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And when you're standing out there waiting in your head, you're used to races.
Speaker A:In your head, you're used to races.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Local races.
Speaker A:And like you see hundreds and hundreds of people and you're like, well, we must be like, he must be.
Speaker A:And there's still just hundreds of people running 240 and 250 and you're like, wow, it's crazy.
Speaker A:So, so it is something to see these packs of women kind of all go by, kind of working and they always kind of working together to hit that goal, even though they don't all know each other, so.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:It's amazing.
Speaker A:I also have to say Courtney Doalter ran it too.
Speaker B:Uh huh.
Speaker B:Oh, she did.
Speaker A:I think she ran a 238, something like that right around there.
Speaker B:Also, swift, for someone who's made a living out of going very, very long.
Speaker A:And it was very funny because, like we're saying these big packs of women all in like, you know, the speedy marathoner outfits, the like little shorts and the.
Speaker B:Oh, and she was wearing her baggy.
Speaker A:She was wearing her like baggy T shirt and baggy shorts.
Speaker B:Yes, yes.
Speaker A:So I said it looked like she had just been spectating and decided to jump in.
Speaker B:But she did not.
Speaker B:She ran the entire thing.
Speaker B:For the record.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:In 238 too.
Speaker B:That is very swift for, you know, someone who does her best over 100 miles, you know.
Speaker A:And I do want to give a shout out to the woman who won, Molly Bourne, because it was also the USA track and field marathon champs.
Speaker A:And so Sarah hall was second.
Speaker A:But there were.
Speaker A:There were a couple of pro women kind of making their marathon debuts and Molly in first and the woman whose name I'm forgetting in third.
Speaker A:This was both their first marathons ever.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Wait, it was her first marathon and she won and she beat like 55 women going under 237.
Speaker B:What was her time?
Speaker A:2:24 or something like that.
Speaker B:Okay, that is.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:You're like, there you go.
Speaker B:Okay, so we have an up and comer.
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:It's a fun race.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:I feel like I'm going to have to do it again just because, I mean, everyone's running under three hours.
Speaker A:I gotta go.
Speaker B:I do love that your reaction to seeing sporting events is still, I can do that.
Speaker B:Where I feel like I've gone over the hump.
Speaker A:Oh, really?
Speaker B:Yeah, like just kind of.
Speaker B:No, like I don't, I don't think I can.
Speaker B:I don't think I will.
Speaker B:I don't think I want to put the effort in.
Speaker B:I've definitely.
Speaker B:But I used to be like you.
Speaker B:Like, everything was, you know, I could do that.
Speaker B:Maybe I could do that if I put some time in, could do it.
Speaker A:I don't think I could run a 237 right now, to be clear, but I think I could run it.
Speaker A:It's also a very popular racer.
Speaker A:I mean, besides the fact that it's become this like they call themselves like the Olympic trials factory or whatever, because it's become like a race for that kind of runner.
Speaker A:But it's also, I mean, it's an hour from my house.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So it's also a very popular.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You'd do well if you slept in your own bed, Kelly.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker A:Yeah, there you go.
Speaker B:Maybe that's it.
Speaker A:But actually, Sarah, my secret dream for the weekend was in the.
Speaker A:Schemo.
Speaker B:Schemo.
Speaker B:Okay, I. I need to hear about what happened in the schema.
Speaker A:Okay, first off, you understand what Schemo is, right?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Well, because.
Speaker B:Yes, but to our listeners.
Speaker A:To our listeners.
Speaker A:So Skimo tell us anyway, Schemo is skinning up the mountain and skiing down.
Speaker A:And like, I think it's because.
Speaker A:I think a lot of people know this concept, like, recreationally, because it's a big thing recreationally, right.
Speaker A:To, like, hike up.
Speaker A:Skin.
Speaker A:Skin up.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I wasn't super familiar with the races.
Speaker B:I was just familiar with people.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I think we always know people do it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, especially triathletes or cyclists or runners will do it in the off season.
Speaker A:Like, you skin up before the resort opens, you ski down.
Speaker A:But it is big.
Speaker A:But it has become a race now, and it's very big in Europe where you skin up, you ski down.
Speaker A:Um, the races do it in loops where you have to do that like twice or three times or something like that.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:And it's gonna make its Olympic debut in February.
Speaker A:And here's the drama.
Speaker A:So the Olympic qualification was very heavy on team.
Speaker A:On mixed team relay.
Speaker A:So mixed team is one woman, one man, and you.
Speaker A:They each have to go twice and do, like, multiple loops.
Speaker B:And do they tag or do they.
Speaker B:Do they tag the same time?
Speaker A:No, they tag.
Speaker B:So it's like a woman goes, tags her male counterpart.
Speaker B:He goes, tags.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:And it was all coming.
Speaker A:The last team spot was Canada versus the US at the World cup this past weekend in Utah.
Speaker A:And so this was the big drama going in was like Canada versus US for the last team spot.
Speaker A:And then the US had recruited this, like, world class trail runner who grew up skiing because she, like, grew up in the middle of the country.
Speaker A:They recruited her.
Speaker A:She had never done a World cup before.
Speaker A:Now Canada in the U.S. it's a bigger sport in Europe.
Speaker A:So Canada, the U.S. are always like, sixth, seventh, eighth, fifth, right.
Speaker A:So the assumption was that was where they would land.
Speaker A:And, like, they only had to be Canada.
Speaker A:That was the only goal they fucking won.
Speaker A:They won the first ever US Gold because.
Speaker B:Because of this ringer.
Speaker A:Because of this ringer that they brought in.
Speaker A:So all of a sudden, this girl who was like a trail runner.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Now turns out to secretly be amazing at this new Olympic sport, now is, like, considered, like, a medal favorite because, like, they won the World cup, right.
Speaker A:And now she's going to the Olympics.
Speaker A:And I just feel like that is my secret, that is my dream.
Speaker A:Sarah.
Speaker A:That is.
Speaker B:We know we know this is your dream.
Speaker B:I mean, I think that that's.
Speaker B:Anyone who's been listening to us since the beginning as well knows that Kelly showing up and randomly doing something amazing, being selected or discovered.
Speaker B:Discovered is the dream.
Speaker B:I mean, it's good to see it's still happening.
Speaker A:For some people it is.
Speaker A:So Anna Gibson, obviously is, like, hard to be discovered if you were like, the national trail running champion and took like, third at the world championships, which is what she did this summer in trail running.
Speaker A:It just happened that she also grew up as like a junior elite downhill skier and then transitioned to cross country skiing and then eventually transitioned to trail running.
Speaker A:So she still had those.
Speaker A:So it basically worked out perfectly for her.
Speaker A:And then she had a build up, right, These skills.
Speaker A:And then I gather at the national champ at Broken Arrow, which were the national championships back in June, one of the guys on the podium was like, hey, look, what do you think about being my partner in skimo?
Speaker A:And so she went to a couple camps this summer, fitted in with trail running, and this was like her first race.
Speaker A:And I gotta say, the transitions are really hard in these things because you gotta.
Speaker A:You gotta get your skins off your skis and get downhill and then get them back on.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like, that's.
Speaker A:So she must have practiced because she was on it.
Speaker A:She.
Speaker A:She like.
Speaker A:She just like.
Speaker A:I watched these videos, she just, like whipped them off wet.
Speaker B:Even the part she was supposed to be not good at, she still was good at.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Wow, it was crazy.
Speaker B:Okay, but I hear that you've done a schema race before, like in the.
Speaker B:In the beer division.
Speaker B:What is the beard of?
Speaker B:What is even so is that this.
Speaker A:Is again, to this, to the note that, like, if people have heard of schema, most people have heard of it in the casual way, right?
Speaker A:So my husband wanted to do it because again, like, the way that a lot of people who came from a skiing background and then endurance sports, like, are good at this.
Speaker A:He wanted to do one of the races here, and the resorts here in Tahoe do kind of end of year schema races where it's, you know, before we close the resort.
Speaker A:So there are serious people who do the serious race, and then there is, like the division for, like, costumes and stuff.
Speaker A:Now here's the problem.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So the problem is I do not really know how to downhill ski, because.
Speaker B:That could be a challenge, right?
Speaker B:Especially because those kinds of skis, they're not even.
Speaker B:No, they're not as safe as your regular downhill skis.
Speaker B:They're like actual, actual Just like, they're actually, like, back.
Speaker B:Not as supportive.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So for the downhill part, they gave me.
Speaker A:Somehow I don't.
Speaker A:They gave me a really fancy demo pair.
Speaker A:So I was wearing super expensive demo skis.
Speaker A:And one of the.
Speaker A:When I crashed at one point, one of them took off and went all the way down the ski.
Speaker A:Oh, no.
Speaker A:Oh, no.
Speaker B:So seriously.
Speaker A:See, this is.
Speaker B:This is exactly how I pictured it.
Speaker A:I said my husband, who was a very good skier, had to skeet out after it was trying to, like, head it off so it didn't, like, kill.
Speaker B:Somebody happened to be there as this.
Speaker A:Was when we were practicing to make sure I wasn't going to die.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:It wasn't during the race.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker B:To make sure you weren't going to die.
Speaker B:Which just then confirmed you were going to die.
Speaker A:So they let me.
Speaker A:Very nice demo skis.
Speaker A:And then because I don't.
Speaker A:I can't downhill ski because, like, downhill skiing, to me, you grow up in a city.
Speaker A:Downhill skiing.
Speaker A:Something rich people do.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, it's not.
Speaker A:It's not like a real thing.
Speaker A:It's like a thing on movies.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Yes, I understand.
Speaker A:So I've only been like four or five times in my life.
Speaker A:And so we decided I would do the beer division, which was like the for fun division.
Speaker A:And you could choose whatever distance you wanted.
Speaker A:If you were in the beer division.
Speaker B:You could, but it has to be in a certain number of laps.
Speaker B:Like, you have to do a full lap.
Speaker B:You can't do, like, just up and then take the chairlift out.
Speaker A:Also, I did the kids lap.
Speaker B:To be fair, I've been in mountain biking situations where I choose the kids.
Speaker A:Lap because I was like, I did beat all the kids up.
Speaker B:Not that you were being competitive with.
Speaker A:Them, but then I.
Speaker A:But you did beat them on the uphill.
Speaker A:But then they all beat me on the downhill, so.
Speaker B:So you did one lap of the kids thing.
Speaker B:Was there any beer drinking involved?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:You got the beer after.
Speaker B:You got the beer after.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:And then you.
Speaker A:I actually.
Speaker B:How did.
Speaker A:I actually won.
Speaker A:Technically, I won the beer division, but you got to make up your own route and keep your own time.
Speaker A:And then I won a giant mug.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Okay, wait.
Speaker B:I need to hear how the descent went.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker A:I mean, so I can make it down eventually of a green.
Speaker A:It just.
Speaker A:It's very slow.
Speaker A:There's a lot of crashing and a lot.
Speaker B:A lot of crashing.
Speaker B:So you actually crashed during the descent with children?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Effortlessly.
Speaker A:Fine.
Speaker A:It's fine.
Speaker B:It's fine.
Speaker A:When it's like a Lot of powder.
Speaker A:It's fine.
Speaker A:You're not gonna hurt yourself.
Speaker A:The biggest problem was the very first time I went downhill skiing.
Speaker A:I think people overestimated when I said, you don't know how to downhill ski.
Speaker A:And I did not know how to like slow down and just kind of crash slow.
Speaker A:So I just went, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:That's not good.
Speaker B:No, that's not good.
Speaker A:So ski mo.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:A few years ago, I did my first downhill skiing in 30.
Speaker B:It had been 33 years that I hadn't downhill skied.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And my partner, who grew up in Switzerland, was skiing backwards in the trails beside me while I was just.
Speaker B:I think I was still like, pizza and get skiing.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's what I do.
Speaker A:I pizza.
Speaker B:Now I can.
Speaker B:Now I can ski a little better.
Speaker B:Like, now I can just a little.
Speaker B:But I'm still on the greens and blues.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:So Schema making its debut in the Winter Olympics.
Speaker A:Sorry, Canada did not get a spot.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker A:Because the Americans kind of surprises me.
Speaker B:Because I feel like we have a lot of people that do that.
Speaker B:It's popular.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, this American, the Americans, you know, this Anna Gibson, she just came out of nowhere.
Speaker B:They just recruited their ringer.
Speaker B:Yeah, we should be.
Speaker B:We need to be more aggressive in our recruiting tactics.
Speaker B:That's what it is.
Speaker A:It's kind of wild though.
Speaker A:Can you imagine somebody just recruits you and then like six months later you qualify for the Olympics and you're like, sure, all right, there you go.
Speaker B:I mean, I've known people who started doing bobsled like that, like who got recruited from either sprinting or rugby years ago.
Speaker B:They would.
Speaker B: ere prepping for Vancouver in: Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:They were recruit.
Speaker B:Trying to recruit winter sports folks.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, a couple of people I knew got recruited straight, almost straight onto a team.
Speaker B:If you could sprint a certain amount, if you could produce enough power in your legs and jump into a bobsled, you weren't scared of fast paced speeds.
Speaker B:Then you're good, I guess.
Speaker B:Like perfect.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I did think that was the craziest thing of the winter or of the weekend.
Speaker A:Lots of winter sports right now.
Speaker A:Do you want to give a shout out to Alyssa Liu, won the Grand Prix final, which is kind of like the big before the Olympics figure skating.
Speaker A:So that's fully.
Speaker A:And we, we love her because she took like this two year, three year break from figure skating and came back.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yes, shout out to her too.
Speaker A:And then apparently the moguls competition is heating up because the Americans are so good.
Speaker A:There's like, five people fighting for two spots, so.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:That's exciting.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:See, Olympic qualification is very dramatic.
Speaker A:I really feel like they should.
Speaker A:People should talk up Olympic qualification more, I think.
Speaker B:I also think in the US you have an advantage because you have more people.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And then there's like, the actual qualifying events become events.
Speaker B:Like, they're televised.
Speaker B:They're like.
Speaker B:Like, I was talking about the marathon qualified trials with 500 people, right?
Speaker B:Like, it's actually in and of itself, extremely impressive, where I think a lot of countries have kind of a.
Speaker B:It's just kind of a smaller deal.
Speaker A:It's also like, we're very American about it, too, right?
Speaker A:We're very, like, hard about, like, well, if you were not third on this day, you do not go.
Speaker A:It doesn't matter if you're the defending world champion.
Speaker A:It doesn' matter if you're the Olympic fate, right?
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Because, because of that, I mean, it's.
Speaker A:There's tons and tons of heartbreaking story.
Speaker A:Like, I know tons of them, but it's also, like, very dramatic, which is why, you know, the American system.
Speaker A:Is ripe for.
Speaker A:For stories, for drama.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:For excitement.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:But you know what we don't do?
Speaker A:We act.
Speaker A:We don't.
Speaker A:A lot of countries, though, will not fill out their whole Olympic teams.
Speaker A:Like, Canada does this, the UK does this.
Speaker A:Australia, like, right.
Speaker A:They'll be like, oh, no, we're only going to send metal contenders.
Speaker A:Like, we don't.
Speaker A:Yeah, we do not do that.
Speaker A:Because, by God, I mean, I'm sure there's some sports, but mostly, by God, with the American way, we're gonna take all our spots.
Speaker A:If you qualified, you earned it.
Speaker B:And I kind of like that more.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:I always hate it when people.
Speaker B:If you have people that qualify by the Olympic standards, and they should.
Speaker B:They should be able to go to the Olympics.
Speaker B:I. I do think it is a slightly different thing when you have a bigger country and bigger depth of field.
Speaker B:So the idea that you're going to end up with a ton of under, under qualified, quote, unquote people.
Speaker B:I think it's just not going to happen.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, you don't have.
Speaker B:You probably don't have a lot of people qualifying who are just squeaking into.
Speaker A:The qualifying Standard in the U.S. basically.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:In the U.S. yeah.
Speaker A:Totally depends.
Speaker B:But even if you do, you take them, which I think.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, here's this, right?
Speaker A:Because this happened.
Speaker A:My husband.
Speaker A:This happened.
Speaker A:They didn't Fill out the team for Ireland.
Speaker A:They were like, no, we're not going to take a full team.
Speaker A:His spot.
Speaker A:Then we were up in Tahoe, like following his spot rolled to some American kid because it rolls to the next.
Speaker B:Person on the list.
Speaker A:And you're like, well, there you go.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:So then we were up in Tahoe and they were talking about so and so, you know, this like 21 year old or whatever was going to the Olympics.
Speaker B:And you're like, well, going to the Olympics.
Speaker B:You like.
Speaker A:You're welcome.
Speaker B:Just, you just took my spot.
Speaker B:Thanks.
Speaker A:So anyway, Schemo winter qualification heating up, lots of World Cups, lots of skiing, which I again, yeah, not a big skier, but it's wild.
Speaker B:But you like, you enjoy watching this.
Speaker A:I enjoy the drama, Sarah.
Speaker B:I can understand that.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Before we get into.
Speaker A:I also enjoy a good terrible movie before we get into our holiday winter movie and book recommendations movies.
Speaker B:As we were saying, as we were.
Speaker A:Saying things to things, things we have talked about before.
Speaker A: hest paid female athletes for: Speaker A:I assume they're not going to make huge amounts of money in the last three weeks here in December, because I.
Speaker B:Think that's a fair assumption.
Speaker B:And that and the list would probably stay the same even if they did.
Speaker A:Probably.
Speaker A:Unless you have some like one of those deals that's like really weighted later anyway.
Speaker A:But Coco Golf was top of the list.
Speaker A:31 million.
Speaker B:I mean tennis has long stood.
Speaker B:Tennis highest paying across the board sport for women.
Speaker B:I think it's, I mean, I just think it shows like the Billie Jean King.
Speaker A:So what you're legacy.
Speaker B:Yes, correct.
Speaker A:You didn't illustrate your point there that 10 of the top 15 are from tennis is what you're talking about.
Speaker B:Oh yes.
Speaker B:10 of the top 15 are from tennis.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker B:And so like it is just super interesting how like tennis, Billie Jean King and the like in the started in the 60s to you know, advocate for equal prize money, create their own leagues like go through all the growing pains that things like the WNSL and the WNBA are.
Speaker B:The nwsl.
Speaker B:Yeah, the wnw, the NWSL and the WNBA are going through now like all those growing pains of like money like starting to come in and being pulled in different directions.
Speaker B:And the PWHL is in that phase.
Speaker B:Tennis went through that years ago and now has like a sound structure of paying female athletes very well and also has an audience that's as big as the men's audience.
Speaker A:Oh, it's definitely as big.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean when you can Name tennis stars.
Speaker A:You can name as many women as men.
Speaker A:Like it's not a question.
Speaker A:And to your point that it does create this whole infrastructure because you look at the list of the highest paid 15 and 10 of them are.
Speaker A:10 of the 15 are tennis players.
Speaker A:And some of them, I swear to God I have not.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I like don't know.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I don't know who they are.
Speaker A:And they made $14 million last year.
Speaker A:And you're like, okay, great.
Speaker A:So the other ones to be the non tennis players were like Eileen Gu, the.
Speaker A:I always say skier, snowboarder, but I.
Speaker A:It's really like a free skier.
Speaker A:Obviously.
Speaker A:Huge.
Speaker A:She has a lot of deals coming out of China.
Speaker A:Caitlin Clark, our only basketball player on the list, Simone Biles.
Speaker A:And then you have golfers because golfing really is like the next one.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker B:That's true.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Where, where the women's league, you know, came.
Speaker B:Came up a little bit earlier too.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like alongside the men's league.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And the LBGA is actually going to televise every round next year.
Speaker B:Oh, great.
Speaker A:So sorry.
Speaker A:Live.
Speaker A:I guess they did do it before, but it was always on like tape delay or like a package.
Speaker A:What do we call a sum up highlights reel.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:So it's an interesting list.
Speaker A:We'll include it in the show notes just to like.
Speaker A:Because it's also interesting to see how it changes.
Speaker A:There was like not that long ago that there was no women making over 10 million, 15 million.
Speaker A:Like it was Serena Williams and that was it, you know.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:We really have built.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker A:We have a part of this.
Speaker B:We and our contribution, our many contributions.
Speaker A:Have built an infrastructure that is starting to pay off for.
Speaker A:For some of these athletes.
Speaker A:So yeah, like the wnba.
Speaker B:We love to see it.
Speaker A:We love to see it like the wnba.
Speaker A:So you wanted to update us on the.
Speaker A:This contract.
Speaker A:The CBA talks.
Speaker A:I understand they agreed to another extension.
Speaker A:We're delaying.
Speaker A:Delaying it some more.
Speaker B:Yeah, they agree to other extension.
Speaker B:I think that the base set like the salaries have been raised to a certain amount.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And are now sort of now they're starting to tie the max salaries and the minimum salaries to the revenue from the league.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So my understanding is because the argument was around exactly that like it wasn't just the salary caps, minimum and maximum.
Speaker B:It was about.
Speaker B:It was about revenue sharing for the players as the league grows.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so now what I understand is that like now they're arguing over which revenue is going to be shared and what percentage of that revenue.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Cause I thought it was still only like 15% of league revenue is what they're talking about.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think it's still.
Speaker B:I think there's still.
Speaker B:And yeah, so it's 50, but it's like some percentage.
Speaker B:It's some bigger percentage of some subcategory of revenue.
Speaker B:Does that make sense?
Speaker B:So, like, there's a.
Speaker B:They said, I think, that the WNBA is trying to protect a certain.
Speaker B:Which is how, I mean, some certain revenue streams.
Speaker A:That is how their old deal existed was.
Speaker A:It was like, oh, yeah, yeah, we'll show revenue after we hit a certain cap.
Speaker A:But then they never hit that cap, partially because of the pandemic, because it was a rolling cap.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:Once you get into the weeds on like contract negotiations.
Speaker A:Yeah, they can get very, very pedantic.
Speaker A:I don't know what the word it.
Speaker B:Is very quickly feels like that, especially when you're coming at it for in the first instance, like the what now?
Speaker B:But yeah, I could see where the essential argument is that the wnba, the original owners, want to protect some of the revenue because they feel like they have put in.
Speaker B:They feel like they've put in money without a return for a very long time.
Speaker B:So they are understandably going, okay, well, no, now we want more of that return before we start sharing more revenue with the players.
Speaker B:And the players are like, no, no, no.
Speaker B:You know, we are, it's growing because of us and we want to share.
Speaker A:I think whenever there are, broadly speaking, like contract negotiations, strikes, that kind of thing is also like, who has the momentum, who has the, who has the crowds with them?
Speaker A:And the reality is like, right now there is also Project B.
Speaker A:There are other options coming up.
Speaker A:Like basketball wise.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:So I think the WNBA for a really long time was the only game in town.
Speaker A:And so it was kind of like, well, this is what we're going to give you.
Speaker A:We're going to give you 15% of revenue after we hit a cap.
Speaker A:And they would have to be like, okay, but now that is increasingly not the case.
Speaker A:And the fans are with them.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So all the details kind of don't matter.
Speaker A:They don't have the vibes.
Speaker B:They don't.
Speaker B:The WNBA doesn't have vibes with them.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:The vibes are with the players.
Speaker A:Same with like, okay, so nwsl, since we're talking contracts.
Speaker A:So Trinity Rodman.
Speaker A:Yeah, we mentioned this a couple weeks ago.
Speaker A:Trinity Rodman, kind of biggest star in nwsl.
Speaker A:Lots of players are leaving for the European leagues because they have higher contracts, because the NWSL has like a salary cap.
Speaker A:So the nwsl, the soccer league in the US Here, really, really, really wanted Trinity Rodman to stay.
Speaker A:Her team reached this deal where they.
Speaker A:Salary caps in NWSL are team wide.
Speaker A:They're not individual.
Speaker A:Like, you can pay an individual almost as much as you want, but the team has a cap.
Speaker A:So the deal they reached was 4 years and 4 million something.
Speaker A:But they backloaded it so that it will be more later when the salary cap for the team is set to go up and like a new deal is being assigned with.
Speaker B:So they were kind of betting on salary caps going up later and giving.
Speaker A:Yes, giving Trinity a deal that would backload that.
Speaker B:That reflects that.
Speaker A:And so the league rejected that.
Speaker A:They rejected her deal, which the players association then filed like a grievance saying, like, you can't reject her deal.
Speaker B:On what grounds did they reject it?
Speaker A:That it went against the spirit of the salary cap.
Speaker A:The vibe, Sarah.
Speaker A:It went against the vibes.
Speaker B:I kind of.
Speaker B:I mean, okay, having just argued that the players have the vibes with them.
Speaker B:In the WNBA situation, I think that's different in terms of, like, having momentum and your negotiating power than rejecting.
Speaker B:Than being like.
Speaker B:Well, because we can disagree on what the spirit of something is.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:I mean, so their point is that, like, essentially, like, the team's trying to, like, circumnavigate the salary cap rules by backloading this.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like that they're going against the spirit of the rules and against, like, the principle of fair play.
Speaker A:The thing about NWSL is, like, the way it's structured and owned, like, the league has to approve all.
Speaker A:Like, it's not just a team by team thing.
Speaker A:The problem, as someone pointed out, is that again, like, here, like, they don't have the cards.
Speaker A:She could just sign a much bigger deal with Chelsea or, you know, one of the European team.
Speaker A:Like, people are courting her.
Speaker A:They need her more than she needs them.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, yeah.
Speaker A:So you don't have, like, Right.
Speaker A:Like you're not.
Speaker A:Like you don't have.
Speaker A:You don't have the upper hand here.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, well.
Speaker B:So we'll see what happens next, I guess.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Somebody.
Speaker A:The best way somebody said it was they're trying to play hard to get and they should be playing pick me.
Speaker A:And you're like, yeah, that's true.
Speaker A:It's true.
Speaker B:So true.
Speaker A:All right, our big, big topic for.
Speaker B:The week, holiday recommendation.
Speaker A:All right, here's the thing.
Speaker A:So I was asking if this was a thing in Canada.
Speaker A:Bad hol.
Speaker A:Holiday movies are a big thing here.
Speaker B:It definitely is.
Speaker B:I just don't watch them.
Speaker A:No, they are.
Speaker A:They're everywhere.
Speaker A:You like half.
Speaker A:You just.
Speaker A:You do.
Speaker B:You have to.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I think this.
Speaker B:I think there's something about you also having cable TV that makes a difference here.
Speaker B:Because if I just turned the TV on and there was something playing up it, I might end up kind of watching it while I'm cooking dinner or something.
Speaker B:But right now, I have to actively.
Speaker A:Pick it on Netflix.
Speaker A:I watch movie.
Speaker A:I watch.
Speaker A:Because it's not.
Speaker A:And it's not just me.
Speaker A:You can tell that they've gone mainstream because, like, the New York Times is doing, like, reviews of all of the holiday movies.
Speaker A:NPR is right.
Speaker A:Like, holiday movies have gone super.
Speaker A:Super.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:And even my most popular on Netflix are often some, like, very terrible.
Speaker B:Like, I.
Speaker A:Where.
Speaker B:I've thought literally this in the last week.
Speaker B:How is this the number one watch thing on Netflix right now?
Speaker B:This is the worst movie I've ever seen.
Speaker A:Oh, I've watched the bad ones, but there are some good.
Speaker A:But I'm also a big.
Speaker A:I'm a big fan of the so bad it's good genre.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like, okay, hot, Frosty last year was excellent.
Speaker A:Okay, you.
Speaker B:I didn't even watch that.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker B:I couldn't.
Speaker A:Fantastic.
Speaker A:It was fantastic.
Speaker A:So you have to, like, really lean into the genre.
Speaker B:Was that the one about the snowman that became, like, a hot.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Like, it.
Speaker B:Like, okay, that's what I'm thinking of.
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker B:You were like.
Speaker B:You saw that?
Speaker B:And we're like, I would like to watch that.
Speaker A:I'm just telling you, check out the reviews.
Speaker A:Everybody agreed with me.
Speaker A:It was so bad.
Speaker A:It was good.
Speaker A:It was fantastic.
Speaker A:So this is the time of year, though, for movies that are so bad, they're good.
Speaker A:This is what people do.
Speaker A:And then I was thinking about it, and I was like, okay, in the genre of, like, classic classic sports movies, you know, you hit the tropes like little giants, Mighty Ducks, Hoosiers, Rudy.
Speaker A:Like, I watched a lot of these growing up.
Speaker A:They're all, like.
Speaker A:All those ones I just named.
Speaker A:There's always, like, one woman, right?
Speaker A:There's always, like, one girl.
Speaker A:There's one girl.
Speaker B:One woman character in the entire thing.
Speaker A:But, like, they're boys movies, but I watched a lot of them.
Speaker A:And then in high school, I, baby, went through, like, a phase of watching the, like, really, really bad lifetime.
Speaker A:Like, the gymnast who has to overcome an eating disorder, the skater who's trying to make it.
Speaker A:There were always, like.
Speaker A:And, like, in retrospect, it's Maybe because those were the ones that, like, had female.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Athletes.
Speaker A:But there was.
Speaker A:There was a lot.
Speaker A:I think there was.
Speaker A:I think because, like, in high school, it was right at that time where everybody's worried about, like, anorexia in teenage girls.
Speaker A:And there was a lot of those movies about.
Speaker A:And they were always about gymnasts.
Speaker A:Always.
Speaker A:So then I was like, well, where are the good women's sports movies?
Speaker A:And this prompted.
Speaker A:I asked the feisty team.
Speaker A:For recommendations.
Speaker A:We gathered our recommendations.
Speaker A:All right, so here are our picks.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:We're gonna do the classics first.
Speaker A:Sarah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:We have, like, League of Their Own.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Excellent classic.
Speaker A:Surprisingly sad.
Speaker A:When you watch it now, you're like, oh.
Speaker A:And then they all had to quit because.
Speaker B:Yeah, it is quite sad.
Speaker B:I remember being shocked by that.
Speaker A:We, like, rewatched it a little while ago.
Speaker A:My husband was like, I don't remember this movie being this sad.
Speaker B:Like, spoiler.
Speaker B:It's very sad.
Speaker A:Love and Basketball, which I think is a classic and is great.
Speaker A:We tried to make the younger kids on our team watch it a couple years ago, and they were not.
Speaker B:I watched it because of you.
Speaker B:Also a couple years ago, and I enjoyed it.
Speaker B:I enjoyed Love and Basketball, but it's very much like 90s movie.
Speaker A:It's a 90s movie.
Speaker B:Like, if you have the context of, like, if you've watched movies in the 90s, I think you could enjoy it.
Speaker B:If you haven't, I think it's where.
Speaker A:The kids just, like, it's not moving fast enough.
Speaker B:It's not.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm bored.
Speaker B:I need to do something else.
Speaker A:It was what?
Speaker A:But it was a.
Speaker A:The whole premise of the movie, right, is they're both basketball players.
Speaker A:He and her neighbors.
Speaker A:Will they, Won't they?
Speaker A:But it actually showed, like, she was training just as hard and, like, what he got.
Speaker A:It was really.
Speaker A:Actually.
Speaker B:It did well at that.
Speaker B:And she actually, like, held her own in a lot of the scenes when they're playing basketball against each other, which I also appreciated, especially from the 90s.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So that's a classic.
Speaker A:Another 90s classic.
Speaker A:Does not hold up as well.
Speaker A:But bend it.
Speaker A:Like Beckham.
Speaker B:Oh, really?
Speaker B:So, okay.
Speaker B:I loved it at the time.
Speaker B:Why did it not.
Speaker A:All right, it does.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:In all fairness, I rewatched it a month or so ago on a plane, I think.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:If they just, like, killed the love story at the end, then it totally holds up at the very.
Speaker A:You know.
Speaker A:So the whole premise, right, is that it's this love triangle, and then she, like.
Speaker A:And they're both in love with their coach, which is, like, fine when it's, like, the drama throughout the movie, but then at the end when they leave to come to the US to go to Santa Clara University for a soccer scholarship and they win the turn, then he.
Speaker A:The guy.
Speaker A:The guy.
Speaker A:Whatever.
Speaker A:The guy, guy, generic, comes to the airport to, like.
Speaker A:Kiss her and say, like.
Speaker A:It was just.
Speaker A:That part just felt like it was just like.
Speaker B:And he's the coach.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:See, that's where you're just like, we didn't need that.
Speaker A:Like, that was just.
Speaker A:That was just.
Speaker B:It could have just been about the friendship and the soccer.
Speaker A:It would have been then.
Speaker A:It would have been.
Speaker A:It would have worked.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:I feel you there.
Speaker A:Apparently, they're making a V2 next year.
Speaker B:Oh, I saw that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm excited for that.
Speaker B:I. I also feel like we're doing this.
Speaker B:We're giving people things to watch and, like, totally spoiling it for them.
Speaker B:And at the end of the movie, he comes to the airport, declares his undying love, and kisses it.
Speaker B:We're, like.
Speaker B:Not to tell you what happened.
Speaker A:The thing about terrible holiday movies is, like, you're not.
Speaker A:It's not a mystery.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:You're not like, gee, are these two gonna end up together?
Speaker B:True.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:But still, I feel like that we should have added a spoiler alert at the top of the section.
Speaker A:Spoiler alert added at the end of A League of Their Own.
Speaker A:They all have to go back to the, you know, being housewives.
Speaker A:Because that's how it worked in real life.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:And then my other classic is.
Speaker A:And I'm gonna.
Speaker A:I'm gonna say it's 90s.
Speaker A:Bring it on.
Speaker B:Bring it on.
Speaker B:I'm not familiar with this one.
Speaker A:This is my gas fake.
Speaker B:Kelly's eyes just bugged out of her face.
Speaker B:I would.
Speaker B:I don't think.
Speaker A:No cheerleading classic.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:It's a cheerleading movie.
Speaker A:Kirsten Dunn's Gabrielle Union.
Speaker A:That's all you need to know.
Speaker A:It's a cheerleading movie.
Speaker A:High school cheerleading movie from the 90s.
Speaker A: Well, I guess it's like: Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:You did not lead me astray with love and basketball, so I'm gonna trust you and bring it on.
Speaker A:It's also.
Speaker B:Don't tell me how it is.
Speaker A:I can't believe you haven't seen it, because there's so many lines that people use.
Speaker A:Now, that came from the movie.
Speaker B:As you're saying it, I feel like it's familiar.
Speaker B:So maybe as I get into it, I'll be like, oh, yeah.
Speaker B:But at this moment, I'm like, I don't know.
Speaker A:You're like, I don't know.
Speaker A:Well, so I'm gonna throw.
Speaker A:I know, like, most people be like, is it a sports movie?
Speaker A:Because they're cheerleaders, but it is.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:What did our team recommend?
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Our team recommended the Cutting Edge.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker A:That's where the hockey player and the figure skater have to come together to win a medal as a pair of figure skaters.
Speaker A:It's from the 90s.
Speaker A:I feel like we're just going 90s.
Speaker B:We're just.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:We're really going old school here.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:Then on your next bullet point, you have old school personal best.
Speaker B:Oh, as if.
Speaker B:As if that's the only old school thing we've brought up.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A: rsonal best is literally from: Speaker A: But it's actually like a: Speaker B:Oh, yeah, that's.
Speaker A:It's like a cult unusual.
Speaker B:The marathon wasn't even in the olympics.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Until 84.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And then I need to watch that one too.
Speaker A:You probably do.
Speaker A:And then somebody on our team did.
Speaker A:They did say the only sport, like, recent sports movie they liked is Challengers.
Speaker A:I actually like Challengers.
Speaker A:I feel like there's a debate out there.
Speaker A:Some people really hated it.
Speaker A:Did you like it?
Speaker A:Did you watch it?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:Apparently I'm not a movie person.
Speaker B:I. I'm learning now that we're doing this segment.
Speaker B:I mean, I've watched movies in my life, but a lot of it doesn't stick, you know?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It was like, so Challengers is a tennis movie.
Speaker A:But then you're like, is it really about tennis?
Speaker A:Is it.
Speaker B:What is it?
Speaker B:What is it really about?
Speaker A:Sex, I think.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Desire.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Failed dreams.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's what it's really about.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:That was actually good.
Speaker B:That was a good.
Speaker B:Like, that makes people want to watch it, you know, without telling them the ending, like.
Speaker B:Like we did with the previous film.
Speaker A:I think the reason.
Speaker A:I mean, I want to hear from our listeners if they like challengers or not.
Speaker A:Obviously.
Speaker A:It was really hot last year.
Speaker A:It felt more like.
Speaker A:What's the word?
Speaker A:A tonal poem than a plot driven movie.
Speaker A:I think that's why people were like, up and down is because, like, how it was shot and, you know, do you actually like any of the characters?
Speaker A:But what I appreciate is a nuanced female athlete type character who has different motivations and.
Speaker A:Goal.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, yeah.
Speaker A:Complexity.
Speaker B:So Right, Yeah.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I get that.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:What were you gonna add to our list?
Speaker B:I don't have any movies to add because clearly I'm not a movie person.
Speaker B:We've just.
Speaker B:I'm just learning this now, but we can move on to books.
Speaker A:Books.
Speaker B:I have some books.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:What were your women's sports?
Speaker B:A lot of, like, our.
Speaker B:Okay, So a lot of the ones that came through the channel, like, when we put it in the slack.
Speaker B:When you put it in the slack channel, were the same as me.
Speaker B:Like, Good for a Girl.
Speaker A:That was a good book.
Speaker B:Laura Fleshman, which was, like, classic.
Speaker B:These are books, like, that came out.
Speaker B:They're not all this year.
Speaker A:No, no.
Speaker A:And I think there was this, like, wave of really good women's running books.
Speaker A:Last two, three years.
Speaker A:So, like, Good for a Girl.
Speaker A:The Long Game by Cara Goucher.
Speaker A:Those were my.
Speaker A:Two of my favorites out of the various running books and my, like, favorite.
Speaker B:From that time period.
Speaker B:It's not a running book is Money, Power.
Speaker B:How Women in Sports are Shaping the Future of feminism by Michaela McKenzie.
Speaker B:So it's a little like.
Speaker B:If you like the discussion around how sports are shaping our culture, which I love that this.
Speaker B:It's a really great book.
Speaker B:And she actually, Mikayla is doing.
Speaker B:I interviewed her on the Women's Performance podcast, and she is also doing a chapter in one of our.
Speaker B:Not a chapter, a module in one of our upcoming courses.
Speaker B:Yeah, so we're doing a course for coaches, and she is doing, like, the.
Speaker B:The module on culture and the way that, like, women's sports culture has developed over the years.
Speaker B:So I. I immediately thought of her because I just love that book so much.
Speaker B:So money, power, respect.
Speaker A:It's called the kind of broad Women's History.
Speaker A:Women's sports history.
Speaker A:One I really like was better, faster, farther.
Speaker A:And we talked to her last year before Maggie Mertens, last year before the Olympics.
Speaker A:It just does a really good job on, like.
Speaker A:Like, I feel quite knowledgeable about women's sports history, and there were a number of things that I learned or didn't know.
Speaker A:So if you're into history.
Speaker A:Nonfiction books.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was excellent.
Speaker A:I feel like this is.
Speaker A:This whole episode is just like a flashback into Kelly's high school.
Speaker A:But I went through this phase at one point where I read a whole bunch of those kind of nonfiction sports books, but, you know, reported narrative.
Speaker A:Narrative nonfiction, where, like, they're written as if they are a story.
Speaker A:You know, hoop dreams.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:They're not written like research papers.
Speaker A:They're written Fiction, like.
Speaker A:Little girls in pretty boxes was really good.
Speaker A:That's about gymnasts and figure skaters, but mostly about gymnasts.
Speaker A:And it was just kind of about, I don't know, how we fucked him up.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And then I.
Speaker A:Then I went through a spell where I read like all the gymnast books.
Speaker A:You know, Dominique Moscianu's, Everybody's.
Speaker A:And the other classic in the narrative, nonfiction, women's sports is in these Girls Hope it's a muscle, which is about this like high school basketball team, girls basketball team.
Speaker A:Which sounds.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's same as like hoop dreams or you know, the reservation dogs.
Speaker A:Like these are.
Speaker A:There's nothing wildly special about the story they're telling, but they tell it.
Speaker A:You know, the book about like the Colorado Runners, what is that one called?
Speaker A:Wild Buffaloes.
Speaker A:These, these books, and they are so often about men, are really just trying to capture a.
Speaker A:A vibe, a thing like chasing a dream.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker B:Yeah, like a.
Speaker B:Kind of like a good story, but well told.
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:Like for sure.
Speaker B:That's the best books.
Speaker A:So yeah, those two are cla.
Speaker A:Like, you know, if I was teaching a course on women's sports, those two are like classic narrative, non fiction.
Speaker A:I will say I read a lot of fiction.
Speaker A:Mostly I actually don't love.
Speaker A:I'm not a huge nonfiction person.
Speaker B:It's interesting because like I'm.
Speaker B:I love nonfiction, but when I'm trying to go to sleep, I love fiction.
Speaker B:And I mostly end up reading at night now because my life is so just full of other things.
Speaker B:So the amount of time I spend just like sitting down to read a book during the day is almost none, unless I'm interviewing someone and I need to read their book in a day.
Speaker B:But in my former life, you know, I used to love like there was a time when I devoured a whole pile of like women's sports books.
Speaker A:I read a lot, I read quickly.
Speaker A:But this year, you know, I think the kid.
Speaker A:I think that's why I didn't read.
Speaker B:As much this year.
Speaker A:This is the first time I really haven't even hit like 20 books for the year.
Speaker A:But I think the reason I. I read a lot of fiction on trips, on planes and at night.
Speaker A:And I think it's because I read so much non fiction, so many articles and like reports during the day that I'm like, well, I want.
Speaker B:Yes, same.
Speaker B:So when I was doing my PhD, I could not read nonfiction at night.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like I had to read something.
Speaker B:Sometimes I even read like children's books.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B:Like I read the entire Narnia series when I was doing a PhD because I needed something easy but still interesting.
Speaker B:You know, a secret garden, stuff like that.
Speaker B:But yeah, definitely like non fiction if.
Speaker B:If my brain has been working overtime on anything during the day.
Speaker A:But this is where I was going was.
Speaker A:There has not historically the same.
Speaker A:We were talking about movies.
Speaker A:I mean it's coming around.
Speaker A:But there has not been the same level of like women's fiction sports books.
Speaker A:You know, once a runner is like a cult classic with runners.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's all about.
Speaker A:It's about a guy trying to make the Olympics, but it's really about what it means to be a runner.
Speaker A:But there isn't really a female equivalent that I think has started to really dramatically change because I feel like in the last few years I've read a lot more women's sports fiction.
Speaker A:So I have to say, like we love to run.
Speaker A:It was about a college women's cross country team.
Speaker A:It's a fiction book.
Speaker A:You know, there's sexual assault as there always is in college sports.
Speaker A:Women's books, women.
Speaker A:But really captured that like what it is like to run.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Carrie Soto is back.
Speaker A:That is a poppy, poppy pop culture Taylor Jenkins Reid book.
Speaker A:But it's about a tennis player.
Speaker A:And I felt like it just really again, like I'm a big fan of the female athlete.
Speaker A:Like complex character who has multiple motivations and is not always a good person and kind of a bitch sometimes and does things because she wants to win.
Speaker A:That's how you like.
Speaker B:It's shocking.
Speaker A:But I'm just saying, like we let male athletes do that, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, no, for sure, for sure.
Speaker B:I'm with you.
Speaker B:I also in the nonfiction category, I just remembered Kathryn Bertine's book as Good as Gold where she tries to get to.
Speaker B:Tries to like get to Olympic level in multiple sports to see if she can qualify for a team.
Speaker A:So that was funny.
Speaker B:Oh, and her book Stand as well, which is kind of about her journey through advocacy in sports, which is more recent just a couple years ago.
Speaker B:And it's also excellent.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And our team called out Tough Broad by Carolyn Paul as one of their favorite non fiction books, which is about.
Speaker A:Well, it's about a number of things, but it's about this woman kind of older.
Speaker A:Older but like hitting menopause and then still wants to try and do like all kinds of crazy.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B:So she things I interviewed now you have to.
Speaker B:What is her name?
Speaker A:Carolyn Paul.
Speaker B:Carolyn Paul.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:I also interviewed her on my podcast and she.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker B:That interview stayed with me and that book stayed with me, too, because what she does is she interviews another of women doing crazy.
Speaker B:Anything from, like, crazy things to something that could be more mundane but seen in a different lens.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So, like, the chapter on bird watching, honestly, is one of the best chapters because she really gets inside birdwatchers and the awe that they find when they go out and, like, is kind of connecting these things to longevity.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So she starts to pull out themes through the book.
Speaker B:So whether it was, like, from everything from bird watching to literally, like, skydiving and wing walking and.
Speaker B:Yeah, like, people.
Speaker B:What do you call it when you jump off a cliff face?
Speaker A:Diving.
Speaker A:So the person.
Speaker A:The person she interviewed for that actually is a friend of mine.
Speaker A:I was biking with her.
Speaker A:The one.
Speaker B:Who got arrested at the bottom.
Speaker A:So she was telling me about how you get.
Speaker A:Or.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's not legal many places you're.
Speaker B:Not supposed to do it.
Speaker B:And she got arrested.
Speaker A:And, like, it's, like, still working its way through courts, apparently.
Speaker B:Really.
Speaker B:And on the day when Carol and Paul went to interview her is the day she got arrested.
Speaker B:Nice.
Speaker B:That's described in the book.
Speaker B:So it really is an excellent book for anyone who is.
Speaker B:Anyone who thinks about, like, how you're aging in sport.
Speaker A:You know, I will say.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:In terms of nonfiction, our group called that out.
Speaker A:The other thing, like, we've obviously talked a little bit about nonfiction from a memoir or a cultural perspective.
Speaker A:There are, of course, the sports science books.
Speaker A:I will say Christine Hughes is probably the best in terms of women's sports science.
Speaker A:It's very good.
Speaker A:The other sports science book I really love and I always recommend up to Speed.
Speaker B:Is that what it's called?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And the other sports science book that I always recommend is not Women Specific, but it's so good is Endure by Alex Hutchinson.
Speaker A:It's just, like, the best I've seen in terms of really diving into what.
Speaker A:What different science says and doesn't say and making it interesting.
Speaker A:And I know our audience, like, or our team, our audience always really wants to hear about those kinds of things.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I love when writers make sports science interesting and digestible.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So those are both good.
Speaker A:The sports gene is also good, but that's, like, a little more complicated.
Speaker A:Do we have any other nonfiction?
Speaker A:Because.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was going into my fiction.
Speaker A:My fiction books.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Oh, you were heading to fiction.
Speaker A:I was transitioning into fiction.
Speaker B:I also.
Speaker B:I mean, this is not women nor whatever.
Speaker B:But for the entrepreneurs, I loved Shoe Dog, whatever you think of.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:It's Phil Knight's own Story of building Nike like the early days.
Speaker B:And like, it is interesting to keep that grain of salt always because around what Nike.
Speaker B:In terms of how he built Nike and what we now know happened later with Nike and some of the stories that came out later, you can sort of see where the building blocks.
Speaker B:For the abusive situations with women and stuff were built.
Speaker B:But you also see.
Speaker B:His insane level of entrepreneurial, like risk or ability to deal with adversity.
Speaker B:Like, he.
Speaker B:It was a very.
Speaker B:I very much enjoyed that book.
Speaker A:I'm not a. I'm not a business book person, really.
Speaker B:Yeah, neither am I.
Speaker B:This was more.
Speaker B:This was more of a story like, it wasn't like business advice.
Speaker B:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker B:Although I did like, this year, I.
Speaker B:The only business book I read, I did like, like 2x is greater than 10x.
Speaker B:And I don't.
Speaker B:I don't enjoy them that often.
Speaker B:But I picked it up and started reading it in a bookstore one day and thought, actually, actually I kind of like this.
Speaker A:Actually, I could use a few tips.
Speaker B:Yeah, I could use a few tips over here.
Speaker A:But yeah, I was about to transition into fiction because I have read.
Speaker A:Because I do think that is something that's been missing.
Speaker A:I think the, like, we kind of have said women's sports movies maybe starting to get right.
Speaker A:We obviously, we drew from all these, like, classics that had some problematic issues in how people are portrayed.
Speaker A:Women's sports books have definitely started to catch up, partially because publishing is so much easier now.
Speaker A:There's just.
Speaker A:There are a lot of options out there or more options than there used to be.
Speaker A:We listed a whole bunch, fiction wise.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I was gonna say We Love to Run was really good.
Speaker A:I really like Carrie Soto is back, the one I just read, if you want.
Speaker A:Like, we were talking.
Speaker A:We started out talking about Trashy Holiday, the favorites.
Speaker A:It's about ice skating, it's about ice dancing.
Speaker A:It is just like pulpy ridiculousness.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So, you know, I feel like people love that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, I think pulpy ridiculousness in ice skating is big right now because he did Rivalry, which is too.
Speaker A:Is blowing up on HBO Max.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But our.
Speaker A:Our hockey expert said the book is not that good.
Speaker A:Heated rivalry.
Speaker A:So I don't know.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:It's good.
Speaker B:We got a.
Speaker B:It's good.
Speaker B:We have a hockey expert on the team who could help us out.
Speaker B:I also wanted to give a shout out to Molly Hereford, who from Strong.
Speaker B:Who from Strong Girl Publishing.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because she basically has Olympians.
Speaker B:She herself wrote a series called Shred Girls, which is excellent.
Speaker B:And it's for girls about mountain biking.
Speaker B:And then she has Olympians who write books for girls and she edits them and publishes them, and it is a wonderful thing.
Speaker B:So she, on her website on StrongGirl publishing has a bunch of different options if you have an athletic child.
Speaker A:I think we are going to put all these in the show notes.
Speaker A:Just list them out.
Speaker A:I think we're also going to expand on it in the weekly Feist newsletter.
Speaker A:So you can subscribe if you want more links to recommendations.
Speaker A:Because we also have recommendations every week and.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And all the links will be in the newsletter.
Speaker B:So that's a good place to get it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:If you're not getting the weekly newsletter, that is the way to get all the recommendations.
Speaker A:I actually had somebody in Boston randomly tell me they get new things to read from that every week.
Speaker A:So there you go.
Speaker A:I was like, great.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Those are all of our holiday.
Speaker B:Well.
Speaker B:Oh, I had a couple.
Speaker B:I had a couple bonus things.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:I was gonna say, obviously this is not a gift guide.
Speaker A:This is not all holiday recommendations.
Speaker A:This is like what to do during your week off.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like what to watch and what to read.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So I had a couple.
Speaker B:I had a couple things of the year that stood out of, like, what.
Speaker A:To buy.
Speaker B:What to buy.
Speaker B:The things that, like, from my year, I do not regret.
Speaker B:One is like buying good seats for women's sports.
Speaker B:Sure, Right.
Speaker B:Like actually being like close to the field, like being able to see the players.
Speaker B:I never regretted spending the money on that, like, all year.
Speaker B:I feel like that would be an excellent gift for anyone.
Speaker B:And then the other thing.
Speaker B:That's cool.
Speaker B:I've just planted a seed with me since I heard it at the ESPNW conference that the WNBA license their logo to women owned businesses, local businesses in individual cities too, where the cities license their logos or like the team.
Speaker B:The individual team license their logos.
Speaker B:And I have seen such cool collabs coming out of that licensing.
Speaker B:Like, those are things I have to say for gifts.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think they were too cool for me.
Speaker B:Oh, really?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because like, San Francisco here, they made some very trendy things.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I was like, sweet, I'm gonna get some.
Speaker A:And then I was like, I don't think I can pull this off.
Speaker B:Oh, you can, Callie, you can.
Speaker A:I was like, that's a look that you are.
Speaker A:You are going for a look.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:The whole thing about this is that there's a.
Speaker B:There's a variety of different collabs.
Speaker B:So I'm sure you could, if you dug In I'm sure you could find something.
Speaker B:Instagram knows me now.
Speaker B:So the first time I clicked on like a Toronto Tempo sweater that I loved.
Speaker B:Then I started to get all the Toronto Tempo collab merch coming through and like some things were like candles, you know, like it wasn't, wasn't all things that 20 somethings would wear that you feel is too trendy for you.
Speaker B:But it's, it was.
Speaker A:I'm not saying I could, I'm just saying it feels like it requires a whole lifestyle commitment, you know, like.
Speaker B:This is true.
Speaker B:Actually, I was just thinking this.
Speaker B:I was at a winter market because Spicy had a booth on Saturday and I was like, my rule when I'm going around because I often like to trade things, you know, at the winter markets with other vendors.
Speaker B:And I was like, my rule is like if you have to change your lifestyle for the item, you should not buy it.
Speaker B:Like if you don't normally carry that type of handbag, don't buy the handbag.
Speaker B:Or like if for me it's like I saw those most amazing earrings and hair clips, but I'm like, if you don't change your earrings every day, like I wear the same gold hoops every day.
Speaker B:Like do not commit.
Speaker B:I bought them at a painter.
Speaker A:Yeah, I feel like, you know, this is like a different, a different lifestyle choice.
Speaker A:Different lifestyle.
Speaker B:If it changes your lifestyle, do not buy it.
Speaker B:It's not a good.
Speaker A:Unless you're, unless that's what you're going for and you want to start base jumping.
Speaker A:Like that's fine.
Speaker A:It's never too late.
Speaker A:You can always do something new.
Speaker A:That's just not where I'm at emotionally.
Speaker B:But like do the thing first before you buy the thing.
Speaker B:I feel like.
Speaker B:So anyway, at top advice for me and Kelly.
Speaker B:Great.
Speaker A:I see we're just dispensing the year end life advice.
Speaker A:The year end recommendations just keeps all the things for you to do the holidays.
Speaker A:All right, to finish off, what are our picks of the week?
Speaker A:So I was going to say.
Speaker A:So like I mentioned, sort of at the top, the moguls qualification is coming down to it and Tess Johnson won the Moguls World cup this past weekend.
Speaker A:The first one of the season and she hasn't won one in seven years, I think.
Speaker A:But then her teammate second the next day.
Speaker A:So it's really gonna be, it's gonna be tight.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:Okay, so Tess Johnson.
Speaker A:Tess Johnson.
Speaker A:Kudos.
Speaker B:Okay, Moguls.
Speaker B:Watch the moguls this weekend.
Speaker B:I feel like that's a good suggestion for everybody.
Speaker B:Okay, I'm picking a triathlete.
Speaker B:So we've done well at staying away for too much triathlon content just in general lately.
Speaker B:But triathlete Georgia Taylor Brown set the fastest time in the 70.3 distance, which for those who don't know is a 1.2 mile or 1.9K swim and 56 or 90K, 56 mile or 90K bike and then a half marathon which is 13.1 or 21.1.
Speaker B:And she did all of that in 3.
Speaker B:51, 19.
Speaker B:She run the, ran the half marathon in 1:16.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker B:Which is like I, I'm saying that number because I think, I don't think a lot of people know like how, What a fast 1.2 mile swim would be.
Speaker B:But like everybody knows that one.
Speaker B:Not everybody, but most people can recognize that on 1 hour 16.
Speaker B:Half Marathon is insanely fast at the end of all that during a four hour race.
Speaker B:So kudos to her.
Speaker A:Uh, yeah, it was in, what am I trying to say?
Speaker A:Bahrain.
Speaker A:It was In Bahrain, the 70.3.
Speaker A:And there's always a lot of how accurately are things measured?
Speaker A:Questions.
Speaker B:I think that there are in other.
Speaker A:Yeah, there are.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:Oh no, I don't mean.
Speaker A:Yeah, that race is known for being fast.
Speaker A:But then there's always.
Speaker A:I meant in general records and triathlon, there's always questions about what constitutes a record.
Speaker A:There is no certification in triathlon.
Speaker A:That doesn't exist the way it does in running races.
Speaker A:So we all just sort of.
Speaker B:There is a rule though.
Speaker B:I don't know how they enforce it, but I've my.
Speaker B:I thought there was a rule around, there was a percentage off that you were allowed to be.
Speaker B:But I think it's more like.
Speaker B:I don't think it's verified.
Speaker A:It's not verified even like the Olympic triathlon was not verified by like distance is not a thing that people actually certify and verify in triathlon.
Speaker A:Not the way you think about it in running races, not the way like a marathon is certified or 10k.
Speaker B:So the records have, the records have a lot.
Speaker A:Which is why Iron man doesn't call them records records.
Speaker A:They just call them like bests.
Speaker A:So this was the best.
Speaker B:Oh, it was the best time ever in history.
Speaker A:But that's great.
Speaker B:It's still a best time, but there were still other people on the courts and there's still other fast courses out there.
Speaker A:So it's a, it's a weird thing.
Speaker A:But either way she went very fast.
Speaker A:She won.
Speaker A:She's been on a tear of like 10 races in 12 weeks.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:You know, this isn't a bad year.
Speaker B:That's one way to end the year.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:All right, we'll have one more show next week where we will be talking all about our favorite women's sports moments of the year.
Speaker A:Send us yours, because I feel, I feel worried I'm gonna miss some.
Speaker A:So send us your favorite sports moments of the year.
Speaker A:Send us.
Speaker A:Let us know what movies and books we missed.
Speaker A:Podcast at Live Feisty.
Speaker A:Just send us an email or a voice note.
Speaker A:And then we will be taking a two week break over the holidays and we will be back in January.
Speaker B:Sam.
