In this episode of the Higher Education, Higher Purpose podcast hosts Phil Cook and Heidi Sturm speak with Joan Vos, the Director of Academic and College Counseling at Chattanooga Christian School. With over 35 years in education, Joan emphasizes the need for educators to "shoot at the heart," focusing on the unique gifts and callings of each student rather than simply adhering to rules and guidelines. She discusses her journey from teaching to counseling, highlighting how her faith has shaped her approach to supporting students in their academic and personal growth. The conversation also touches on the challenges presented by the overwhelming noise of social media and college admissions processes, and Joan advocates for the value of attending Christian colleges that prioritize the holistic development of students. 

What You Will Learn:

• Joan Vos emphasizes the importance of seeing students as image bearers with unique gifts.
• The discussion highlights the value of Christian colleges in nurturing students' faith and personal growth.
• Joan shares her journey from teaching to counseling, illustrating how God opened doors for her.
• The podcast explores how the noise of social media impacts students' college decisions today.
• Joan encourages parents to consider the benefits of Christian education for their children.

Resources:

Visit our website: https://www.naccap.org

Email us: Office@naccap.org

Visit The NACCAP Annual Conference: https://naccapconference.org

Welcome to the Higher Ed Higher Purpose Podcast, a podcast designed for NatCap members, prospective students, and their families.

My name is Phil Cook, and it's my pleasure to serve as the NatCap president.

And I'm Heidi Sturm, and I am the director of Marketing and communications here at NatCap.

And those who've been listening, you know, we've been talking to NatCap superstars in our membership and in particular, our board of directors.

And we're so pleased today to have with us Joan Voss from Chattanooga, Tennessee.

Joan, how are you today?

I'm doing excellent, thanks.

We're glad that you're here.

And let me read the.

I've been reading the official bio just to talk about it, so let me read that really quickly.

They say that Joan serves as Director of Academic and College Counseling at Chattanooga Christian School, where her school counseling skills factor into each interaction she has with students.

She's been working in education for 35 years, has a depth of breadth and experience to work with high school students, recognizing God's leading as they make career plans and college decisions.

Joan does serve on the NatCap board of directors, and she serves in our governance committee.

She graduated from Calvin University and went on to earn a master's in school counseling from the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga.

This part of the bio I love, because if you did this or Heidi did it, but.

Joan has three nearly adult children and lives on a small hobby farm in North Georgia with her husband Matthew, who is a professor of sociology at Sociology at Covenant College.

Another NatCap member, Joan, we're glad you're here.

Thanks for being a part of this podcast with us.

Thank you.

What's a hobby farm?

I don't know what that is.

Well, that is where you actually spend more money than make money.

You know, a farm is supposed to be a business, but for years, decades, we had sheep and horses, chickens.

And although the chickens did provide eggs and we would sell.

Sell some of the lamb for, you know, for its meat.

You know, I.

I would say to my husband, which one are you taking to, you know, taking in to, you know, making to meat for.

For Easter?

And he'd say, shh, they can hear you.

So they.

We spent way more money than we earned, but we.

So we have the horses.

And so anyway, it's.

It's been a fun.

Well, we need to visit.

We need to have a nightcap event down there.

What city in North Georgia are you comfortable saying which?

Yeah, comfortable.

Yeah, It's Chickamauga Chamag, however.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So probably some people have been to the Chickamauga battlefield.

Pretty well known, but however, we are outside the city limit, so more toward like Flintstone Georgia area.

So.

Yeah.

Well, Joan might be tired of this story that I tell because I tell it all the time, but prior to my time at NatCap, it's hard to leave.

It's been almost three and a half years that I've been living in, in Indiana in the, at the world headquarters for NAT Cab.

But prior to that, I had a life in Tennessee, close to Chattanooga in a place called Cleveland, Tennessee, where I worked at Lee University.

And the first recruitment thing I ever did was I went down to Chattanooga Christian and met Joan Voss.

Then.

Joan was so kind.

I was such a naive rookie.

All I knew was I loved the Lord and I loved my alma mater.

And Joan.

So Joan, you've been at this for a while, then that's a positive, right?

So, I mean, you've seen everything.

What, what, what?

Tell us a little bit how you got into doing this.

Nobody starts out, I guess, to be in this industry or maybe they do.

How did you get into your start there in Chattanooga Christian?

Well, I knew I wanted to go into education when I went to Calvin, and I thought I might do elementary school.

But as I began to do some of the aiding and those practicums early on, I thought, you know, I really feel a call toward a little bit older students, student.

And I was back then you had to teach before you became a school counselor.

And I was very interested in social work.

So it all kind of just came together.

I started to talk to different people who were going into school counseling after teaching for a few years.

And I just decided, yeah, this is a route I'm going to take in terms of upper school, middle school, high school counseling, and happened to just grow tired while I was working finishing up that English as a secondary, you know, secondary school teacher.

I.

A lot of people wanted to stay in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and love Calvin grew exponentially, spiritually and intellectually there.

However, it is gray and it is cold and it snows a lot.

And as I was walking, slipping my way from 11 hall to the other my senior year in January, I thought if I fall over here, I might freeze in this snow bank and no one will find me until April when the snow finally starts to melt.

So I said, I'm moving south.

And I heard about a job at Chattanooga Christian School, and I interviewed on the phone and I took it sight unseen.

Never been to Chattanooga.

And so, so what was so amazing then is I taught for a few years and I was living with some friends and I was grading English papers all the time.

And they kept saying, we think you want to be a school counselor.

Why do you keep doing this?

You know, you're grading all the time.

You're young.

You know, you need to.

You need to move forward.

And, you know, you teach how to have this program.

So I was able to go ahead and do that.

The Lord opened the doors for me to do that, and that's how I started down the path.

And you never think about when you're in school for school counseling, about all the college counseling piece.

You talk a lot about testing and measurements and the counseling and meeting students where they are socially and emotionally.

But this you think about college piece and how well that dovetails with even my social work, early social work interests and connecting students to the resources that they have to grow and become.

So that's just that early start.

I felt that call very clearly and was able to.

The Lord just opened doors.

Oh, I love it.

In my travels with NatCap, I've been to Grand Rapids a couple times, a few times now since being up here, not far from where we are, and Calvin's one of our larger institutions in NatCap.

But when you described being at Grand Rapids, it let me know that you're not from the north.

Joan, you can't be from the north because you didn't say Grand Rapids.

Hey, Heidi, where's Calvin located?

Heidi, tell us.

Grand Rapids.

No, I was not.

She didn't say my ANNOUNCER VOICE on That's right.

Yeah, but tell us a little bit about where you're from and growing up, but then also making the choice to attend.

And it's not about Calvin in particular, but attending a Christian college, which is why NatCap exists.

We work with you to get more students from Chattanooga Christian to go to Christian colleges.

How about you in making the choice?

Where are you from and how did you make the choice to go to Calvin?

So I grew up in the Christian Reformed Church.

That was the church I attended all my life.

My parents had grown up in that small town, and my siblings are all older and married their high school sweetheart.

So they were all attending Christian Reformed churches or Reformed rca, which is Hope College.

So a number of my friends went to Hope.

So when I said that I wanted to be a teacher, a lot of the people that I grew up with were involved in trades.

So my parents, I was first gen.

I just felt called it.

There were no teachers in my family, but I just felt called that way.

And my parents knew enough to say, if you are going to be a teacher, you're going to be impacting other people's lives, you're gonna be caring for them, edifying them.

You have to receive your education from a Christian college.

And the three that they knew about were Dort University and Trinity.

Trinity Christian in Palos Heights.

Yes, and Calvin.

There you go.

And they said, which one are you to go to?

So I made some visits and I think at first I just want to tell you I kind of went with not a great attitude, like, seriously, you know, because we were just 60 miles from purdue University.

And I just thought, well, I could just go down to Purdue.

It's going to cost a little less.

But they were very convincing.

And once I got there and began to see the difference, and I went to a public high school, I went a kindergarten through eight Christian school, that was a privilege.

I didn't.

Small, so small.

And then it back into a rural public high school and what a gift.

I mean, I didn't have to be there six months to realize what a difference.

I ran cross country.

The coaches, they were always shooting at the heart.

They were there to edify and encourage.

I know that people in other schools understand young people as image bearers, but they can't talk about it in the same ways.

And there was never a doubt in my mind that every professor and coach that I got to spend time with really saw me as an image bearer who had gifts.

And they, you know, I think it was a former Calvin University professor that penned the Every Square Inch or somewhere in there, there was this thing theme.

And that's what it was like for me.

Like these really intelligent people pouring into young people like me, helping to equip me, to steward my gifts.

That's what it was about.

They basically they.

They discipled, but they spent more time.

You know, there were some evangelical components in there, but they said if you came here as a believer, then this is.

This is our call to teach you to think about your gifts.

How are you going to use them?

What are you going to do?

How are you going to go out and make a difference in society and cover every square inch.

So, like, I wasn't just saying that about exponent growing exponentially.

Like that really happened for me.

So it's just been a part of what I value.

So that's what's been so exciting about being A part of NatCap is I saw it at work in my life.

And my husband's story at Covenant College would.

Would be very much the same.

And that's true of many of our.

I mean, it's Heidi and my story.

It's why we're all doing this.

But I wish we recorded that because what you're describing is precisely what we're still doing because it's still going on amongst our Christian college universities around the country.

You're listening to the Higher Ed, Higher Purpose podcast.

You said a phrase there that I don't.

I love phrases and ideas and communication.

But you said some, the teachers or the faculty or the coaches were shooting at the heart.

Yeah.

So I haven't heard that phrase before.

Well, this is overused word.

There are two phrases I really can't.

People say lean in all the time.

I'm tired of hearing that.

You know, lean in.

Okay.

I'm also tired of hearing of unpack.

Okay.

So I'm not gonna use either one of those.

Could you expand a little bit on what you mean when you said somebody's shooting at the heart?

That happened in your experience, but also how maybe you do it in your life or what goes on at Chattanooga Christian as well?

Well, shooting at the heart, what that means for me and you know, as I work with students and other faculty, we all live in a broken world.

We're all sinful.

And these young people come to us, you know, whether that's in the high school, you know, anywhere Pre K through 12 and at the higher ed.

And we're all growing, right?

We're always growing.

And so if we think we can slap a rule or some sort of guideline or control to get young people to move toward the things of faith, that's not gonna work so much, you know, so what I've seen is if we continue to talk about how has God created you?

What is he calling to you?

For me, there are things of beauty all around us and faith.

When I sing and when I worship in church yesterday, when I sing with my fellow believers, when we fellowship at a meal afterward, those are things of beauty, right?

And there's so much that's in culture that's pressing, especially our young people.

There's so much noise to the ugly and to the broken.

And so if you attend a four year college that's Christian, you have Christian professors and administrators who are, who are looking at you not for your faults or your sins, but how can we edify you and shoot at your heart?

What are the things you're thinking about that motivate you?

That's a thing of beauty.

And you know, there's people at Christian colleges value what I value and they value what our students, our parents value and that is who doesn't want their student to chase their young person, to chase beauty, right?

To be surrounded by it.

So wow.

I mean I hear a lot in my work over the 30 plus years I've been at Chattanooga Christian.

They'll, a lot of parents will say, and I stay really open because God calls students to all kinds of colleges.

But I say, if you in these really impactful, influential ages, you know, isn't it great if you do have a professor who's shooting at the heart, who's thinking about matters of faith and research bears out that these young people who are able to pursue matters of faith, faith with confidence in things of beauty in their middle age, there's a higher happiness factor.

There's a confidence there.

So often they'll say, well, I feel like my child has been at a Christian school.

It's time for them to move forward and be a missionary.

And that is true.

Some young people are ready for that.

But I would prefer for my own children to give them, if I can, another four years to be surrounded by the.

By beautiful things.

We just got the video clip for this promo that was, that was wonderful, Joan.

And I would say, man, it gives language to what I've been trying to do my whole life of shooting at the heart.

I love it.

Is that, did you just dub that?

Is that from your being read?

Is that a scripture?

Where are you drawing that from?

Where am I drawing that from?

Well, always thinking about talking with students about head, heart and hands.

Right.

Like we can't do one without the other.

And so years and years ago, when tech was just beginning to pour into our kids lives and not every kid had a phone yet, but we all realized what a dangerous precipice we were on.

We invited our school principal invited in somebody who came in to talk with parents how to navigate this crazy tech stuff that's pouring into our kids hearts and minds.

And what's interesting is some parents walked out of that session with a little bit of like, well, that didn't tell me much about how to filter, you know, or how to filter their.

What they're looking at or how do I know.

And because we were behind, we parents were behind on how to keep track of what our kids were searching on these MacBooks that every school, you know, every school went to.

One to one.

Yay.

Okay, let's hand your kids this really scary thing.

So that's when we started, my husband and I started as parents and especially after I heard the speaker say it's important to shoot at the heart, but there's no way you can monitor everything that's going on with your child.

You're going to have a hard time keeping up.

So continuing.

Yeah, you can talk digital footprint, but what's going on in your heart before you post that picture of yourself?

You know, maybe in a way that clad in clothes, maybe five years down the line, you may not want that.

So always be thinking about what's going on in your heart.

And if you're scared or sad or whatever, let's talk about that before you feel like you have to post these pictures so that whoever that speaker was, I don't know his name, I could go back and look in the records, but he used that phrase.

And I thought, that's exactly it.

That's what we're doing with our own children, is we're shooting at the heart.

And so I began to incorporate that in the conversation that I've had for years, which I don't know where that.

It seems like Calvin University, somewhere in there had something about your head and heart, but somewhere incorporating that kind of conversation.

Well, today this reformed person is getting this recovering Pentecostal off fired up because that language, that descriptor, is beautiful and it frames so nicely what we've been doing and what we're trying to do all throughout NatCap and what we've been doing with our lives.

So those of you just joining us, we're so thankful to be joined by Joan Voss, who is director of Academic and College Counseling at Chattanooga Christian School and a member of our board of directors.

And Heidi's going to ask a couple questions about NatCap.

Heidi?

Sure.

Yeah.

Joan, how did you first become familiar with NatCap?

What was.

Yeah.

Who introduced you and all that?

Okay, so I don't have a memory of that exactly.

I saw that you all had sent me that question to think about, and so I thought, do I just make up this grand story about that Phil is the one?

Yes.

Like you came to me, what happened?

Yes.

And do you.

Do you remember, Phil?

Were you the one?

I don't know.

I was coming, talking about Courtney Hindman is all I remember.

Okay.

Anyway.

Well, here, Phil, I've asked you this before.

Do you remember when NATCAP really started to Encourage K through 12 partners to come apart?

Almost 15, 20 years ago, I would say.

Yeah, it was after our first meeting.

Yeah, that's right.

So see, when I first I Knew There was NatCap because of my affiliation with Covenant College, my husband was actually an admission counselor there.

Yes, that's right.

So he was part of NatCap because by virtue of being at Covenant College, college admission counselor.

But has he gotten the regional service?

Has he got an award from NatCap or did he come on.

He has not.

So I have that on him.

So I think I knew that it existed.

And somewhere in there could have been Phil, could have been somebody from another Christian college reached out to say, we have these K12 or high school partnerships.

And so I was racking my brain.

Okay, you guys are going to see a common thread here.

I really believe that Southeastern was the first one that I went to a fly in drive in where I joined because I was like, wait, they're going to fly me to Florida in February?

Sign me up.

I was like, sign me up.

And I went.

And I just was like, wow, this is, this is something for me to be able to rub elbows like I, you know, with other Christian counselors to hear the kinds of things.

It reminds you that the ups and downs of life and the struggles and the brokenness and the joys and the privileges of our work, very, very much the same all over, you know, all over the nation.

And having that camaraderie and being able to encourage one another.

So that was a really great.

The Southeastern was a fantastic.

And then I think I went to Anderson after that, so it just kind of started rolling very good.

And so you're talking about the fly in drive ins for those who may not know what a fly in drive in is.

Can you tell us a little bit about that and why should somebody consider attending?

Yeah.

So this is where the host college invites in counselors, high school counselors, pre K or K through 12, I guess.

But primarily the high school counselors are flown in or the host college pays for the travel, which is beautiful because Christian schools, ours is a little bigger now, but Christian, when you're a small Christian school, like I just didn't have.

I sure I could go visit Lee and I could go visit University of Tennessee, Chattanooga and Knoxville, but to get to some of these other colleges, Southeastern.

Oh, and I had been exposed to Southeastern and what a great place it was.

My colleague, one of the other counselors had lived and worked in Florida and spoke very highly of Southeastern.

And I was like, well, this is great.

I can fly there.

So the host institution pays for the travel and not only that and the stay, the accommodations.

Not only that, they set up these great Sessions where both NatCap folks are leading and teaching about like Heather Mills, who won one of the awards here at the fastnet Cap she was one of the first speakers, I believe.

Tammy Peterson and then Janet.

Yeah, she.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So all that to say, I was able to go to sessions that were relevant to me, rub elbows with other Christian counselors, and also hear and learn more about this college so I could go back and when I was meeting with these students, when I meet with these students and parents, to be able to tell them what I saw and what I heard.

Because a lot of times they don't know the value of a Christian college.

And so it was just a win.

Win that.

That justice.

Yeah.

Oh, that's fantastic.

Yes.

And if I'm not mistaken, so.

So we're talking, you know, fly and drive in Christian college fairs.

You've hosted one before, haven't you?

Yes, many times.

For a while, you know, pre Covid was in that.

And also sharing with some of the other Christian schools in town some of that.

Sometimes we would look for a location that was neutral, and I would join in with some of the other local Christian high schools.

But, yeah, most recently, I've done a couple of more, and that's been great to, again, get a variety of Christian colleges on campus.

And what was super exciting for me last year was I was thinking, okay, this is mostly going to be kids, students from these three schools, three main Christian schools in the town, and some homeschool groups.

We had people coming in from Murphy, North Carolina, Cleveland.

Yes.

Dalton and south of Dalton.

I was like.

So she said.

One student said, well, I'm from Murphy.

And I said, you mean you just moved here?

And she goes, no, this was.

You know, I've been looking for this kind of thing.

And you guys had this available, and they stayed the entire time and talked to every single college rep, the admission counselor that was represented.

That's fantastic.

Well, that is what you're describing is why we do what we do.

My first interaction with NatCap was at Christian College here in Birmingham, Alabama.

And I got there and set up my table.

We opened door a little bit early, and for two and a half hours, I had a line of people, and I got to talk about the Lord, I got to talk about my alma mater.

And I was like, this is my thing.

And then I went to an annual conference with NatCap, and the rest is history.

So all that you're describing, all that you've done and serving in the NatCap board, we're grateful.

And the way you served Christian education in general, I just thought of this.

In your.

All the time at Chattanooga Christian, have you had children of former students Come be a part of ccs.

Has that happened to you a little bit?

Joan?

Oh, yeah, A lot, yes.

In fact, just this past two weeks, we've been having some prospective parent meetings and I speak at those in terms of how do we, what do we provide, what kind of care, support, supplemental services do we offer?

And so this Pastime 3 alum came up and said, this is you.

You provided this for me when I was here.

You probably don't recognize me.

And I don't always recognize them.

So once in a while I might get part of their name, their first or last name.

And so they are coming.

And then some of their.

Yeah, there's a lot.

I used to fib a little bit and be like, of course I remember you.

Yeah, you know, it's the worst question ever is Jake, do you remember my name?

And I'm like, don't do that to me.

But so closing thought and there's threads throughout this that might bring back together, but having students who now have gone on to become parents who are now coming and being a part of what the work that you're doing and the technology changes.

I do feel like there's just a this work has changed, but there's got to be some things that are through that, that drive that are the same.

Just talk about what's going on now in your work.

Maybe how it's different, maybe not, but just some words of encouragement for those that are listening.

Maybe K12, maybe not.

Maybe somebody just randomly found that what's different and then the why for why you get to do this and why it's so important for you in the work that you do.

JOAN what's different is.

So start with what's different.

Let me start there.

Okay.

What's different is the noise level, the figurative noise level.

There's so much out there in social media and even media platforms that don't mean to say crazy things like, you know, student debt is out of control and there are all these unclaimed scholarships out there, you know, or there's just all this noise about some of the really highly selective colleges.

And, you know, that's about 200 colleges.

And I keep telling our students there are so many wonderful colleges out there that want you and want to edify you and encourage you.

So I think the noise that these kids like in the 80s, I think the whole idea of college recruiting students to attend your college, that went up like they spend way more per student.

Right.

Than they used to.

I think.

Yes.

So just think these kids are being bombarded with emails and flyers.

And I get it.

You have to stay in there.

I get these.

The what the higher ed folks have.

It's a lot on their plates in terms of so heart, I think a big job for them and a big job for these students to sort through everything.

And that's why all the ideas that I have, you know, I want to find ways to regionally break that down and let Christian colleges and high schools work together, you know, to, to bring those things together, to drown out some of the noise.

What's the real answer here?

What's really going on?

Because can I give you a brief example?

Surely.

Okay.

So I had one student whose entire.

Both parents went to Covenant College, grandparents worked, they taught there for many years and are well loved in this community.

This young man is a good student.

Is he a 4.0?

No, but he is a very good student.

He's involved on our campus and too much joy for Covenant College.

They had a sneak preview weekend and they were, it was their biggest one ever.

They had like the word on the street was 300 students visiting.

And this young man was so concerned that he hadn't finished his application yet.

And he said, do you think that all these kids going to the sneak preview are going to get in line in front of me and I won't get in?

Well, he's this faithful young man who leads in his youth group.

His family's all been there.

I said, you will get into Covenant College.

He goes, I just don't know, you know?

And so do you want, do you see how in a sense it makes me sad because I, I want to have done more to drown out that noise, to say, young man, the gifts you bring to the table are significant.

And people at Covenant College see that your family loves Jesus, you love Jesus.

These are all really important things.

So I think that's, that's what's different.

And I think what stays the Same is for 30 plus years I've seen faculty at both the high school and college level see young people as image bearers.

I know I've used that a lot as people with gifts.

And they recognize the importance of diversity because the Lord certainly calls us to that.

And that's diversity, socioeconomic, you know, racial and academic.

And that's what I love about these Christian colleges is they are interested in the whole student and the whole story.

And I love to be able to tell students that, like, if you desire this Christian ed, they are going to try to help you figure out how to do it financially, academically, you know, I think those are the things that stay the same for me over the years.

I love it.

While the noise has changed, the core issue of what we're trying to do, that has not changed.

And we're doing that better than ever.

And we're doing it because of your help.

Joan, thank you very much for being a part of this today.

Thank you for your service to the kingdom, thank you for your service to Christian education, and thank you for your service to NatCap.

We'll see you on the road again very soon.

Great.

Thank you.

Thanks, Joan.

Be sure to join us next time for the Higher Ed, Higher Purpose podcast.