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EP 26: Jessa Brie Moreno - Creative Midwife
Episode 2617th June 2021 • Change the Story / Change the World • Bill Cleveland
00:00:00 00:36:49

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Threshold Questions and Delicious Quotes

How do you describe your work in the world?

I often refer to myself as a midwife of creativity... I think of it in my dual roles as an educator and artist, as holding space for the birth of someone else's creative thinking and inquiry. And so I liked that idea that, if something goes wrong here I am to hold the space.

What is happening when young people catch fire in a performance?

..students, who have been marginalized or failing their other subject matters-- suddenly if they're center stage ... performing with brilliance it's a way for even other teachers to have an asset-based understanding of them, to really see them for them, their true selves.

What is the art of teaching?

The art of teaching ... is really this transmission of wisdom, right? If we look at human history, we're talking about a very different frame than the last hundred years of what education is and how we pass on ethics and values and cultures and art forms through education. Those were the primary ...tools for survival and somehow all of that seems a bit out the window with our Industrialized education frame.

What makes Studio Pathways unique?

One of the reasons we left the county office of education was to focus on the concept of reconciliation or reckoning. So taking it from, south African truth and reconciliation --- the knowledge that we really haven't had a practice of reconciliation this country, that's why we're facing what we're facing right now.
...Educators need to be able to do power analysis in the classroom. They need to understand what's happening between teacher and students, between genders and races, and they need to understand what that means and how that plays out and then their own role in either disrupting or perpetuating that.
So that's a real key....And the way that we do it is through the arts.

Jessa Brie Moreno is Co-Founder and Co-Executive Director for Studio Pathways and has collaborated as a pedagogical advisor, instructional designer, and facilitator for leading-edge arts organizations and educational institutions nationwide. Studio Pathways' projects, partners, and clients include: Rise Up! An American Curriculum, The Kennedy Center, Turnaround Arts National, Othering and Belonging Curriculum for UC Berkeley’s Othering and Belonging Institute, Racial Healing Curriculum/WKKF Foundation, Instructional Designers/Zaretta Hammond, Favianna Rodriguez' The Center for Cultural Power, the California Spoken Word Project, Turnaround Arts National CA, California Alliance for Arts Education, Hewlett Foundation, Los Angeles Education Partners, Youth Speaks, Youth In Arts, Museum of the African Diaspora, Oakland Museum of California, and County, District and School Sites. 

In addition, Moreno has held posts as Adjunct Faculty with the California Institute for Integral Studies (BA, MFA programs) and San Jose State University (Theatre Dept.) is a founding member of White Educators for Racial Justice (WERJ) and has facilitated with RISE for Racial Justice. Moreno (alongside Rankine-Landers) formerly co-led the Integrated Learning Specialists' Program, professional development in and beyond Alameda County that supported transformative K-12 school change through the arts. Moreno served the California Alliance for Arts Education as a Local Advocacy Field Manager building community leadership networks for Arts Advocacy statewide. She was the founding director of both the Oakland Theatre Arts Initiative and of award-winning student theatre company OakTechRep. Jessa's directorial work has appeared in collaborations with CalShakes, Stanford, UC Davis, and in Edinburgh, Scotland. Professional Awards as a performing artist include an Emmy (Motion Capture Specialist), Bay Area Theatre Critics Circle, Dean Goodman, and Shellie Best Actress Awards.

Moreno utilizes a stance of "creative midwifery" to assist in the ethical "birth" of transformative practices in education, arts, and culture. She wrestles actively with a complex lineage as a sixth-generation settler colonist to Ohlone lands, fourth-generation artist, third-generation activist, and mother to two young women. She is a graduate of Scuola Internazionale dell'Attore Comico in Italy, holds an MFA in Interdisciplinary Arts and Creative Inquiry from CIIS, and a English Language Arts Teaching Credential.

Transcript

CSCW EP 26 Jessa Brie Moreno

 

 BC: [00:00:02] That's the sound of children playing together at school. Until very recently all across the globe, those echoing voices, were as common is the wind. Now, not so much. Hopefully that will be changing soon.

 

There are very few who would disagree with the idea that our children, their safety, their ability to learn are of primary importance to all of us as a community. But sometimes, maybe I should say all too often, what we do in that realm, how we treat our children, does not align with that sentiment. This is particularly true with our schools, which many regard as the clearest reflection of how society values as children, and, by extension, nurtures and grows its future.

 

The other sound that has been missing from our children's lives is the voice of the teacher. Together with them in the classroom, encouraging, cajoling, pointing the way, providing the substance, the way points, and the glue for their learning journey.

 

Among many other things, Jessa, Brie Moreno is a teacher of teachers. Through a program. she founded with her colleague, Mariah Rankin Landers, called Studio Pathways. She describes this work as helping educators give birth to the rigor and magic inherent to the art of teaching. As a theater artist and teacher, herself, she knows this territory intimately. She also knows that if we, as a society, are going to deliver on the promise, embodied in all those joyous, unexpected voices. Once again, filling the air back in the classrooms and playgrounds of the world, our teachers will be at the critical center.

 

We spoke about this and much more in early 2021. This is Change the Story, Change the World, a Chronicle of art and community transformation. I'm Bill Cleveland.

 

Part One: The Art. Of Teaching

 

So, Jessa if someone were to put a moniker on you, or your work what would it be?

 

JM: [00:02:16] I often refer to myself as a midwife of creativity, thought creative energy. Yeah. I think of it in my dual roles as an educator and artist, as holding space for the birth of someone else's creative thinking and inquiry. And so, I liked that idea that, if something goes wrong here, I can hold the space, but, pretty much, it's your experience here? And I've got some guidance for you.

 

BC: [00:02:46] In the field of creative midwifery, what are some of the skills or capacities that are serve you?

 

JM: [00:02:53] I guess training I had in theater, I actually did training in Italian street theater a million years ago. And. Something about risk and disruption and attempting to be present with the soul or spirit of a thing is the precise energy that education is in need of.

 

BC: [00:03:17] Yeah. So, you do have a significant relationship to education. So, before we go into some of the specifics. How did you come to this work that you do as a creative midwife?

 

JM: [00:03:30] I think, at first, by way of necessity, like most teaching artists, or artists who teach, I needed a way to make a living at the time as a single parent, navigating, moving from being a regional theater artist to something that would give me roots in one place longer than three months at a time.

 

So, I fortunately, my mother's also an artist educator, taught ceramics her whole life. So I think I had it in my bones, whether I wanted to or not. And then found my way to Oakland Technical High School – A big, comprehensive public high school in Oakland, California, where I got to start the performing arts program that's been there for the last 15 years now.

 

BC: [00:04:15] So growing up your mom was a maker. (Lisa Reinertson)

 

And were you interested and excited by that realm of work early on as a kid?

 

JM: [00:04:26] It’s funny you asked tha,t because I was not. I told her I was going to become the president of a tall building with no art on my walls because art had ruined my life. Yes, rebellion, rebellion.

 

BC: [00:04:38] Absolutely.

 

JM: [00:04:39] But I did grow up also daughter of a single mother on the floor of my mom's art studio in clay. And she's the sculptor of primarily public monuments to peace. So, sculptures of Martin Luther King, Today's his birthday. She's his family's favorite portraitists of his image.

 

(Also) Cesar Chavez, different activists through her art. So, her work was really developing art. That was her activism. So, I was witness to that as the base culture of my life.

 

BC: [00:05:10] And you couldn't escape it, it rubbed off on you, even though you rebelled.

 

JM: [00:05:14] I couldn't escape it. It seemed, in the end, it was the most meaningful thing to do with one's life. Yeah.

 

BC [00:05:20] It is interesting how that, that opposition that occurs, how often it ends up returning to its, its mothership. Very much .

 

So, talk about education, much of the work I know that you do focuses on making and doing experiential work both with teachers and with students. Could you talk about why you think that's an important element of learning for humans?

 

JM: [00:05:49] Sure. Yeah. So, I guess I can tell it through a story at Oakland Technical High School. I had the journey from artists to teacher. I think some teachers have the opposite journey. They realize later that they're also an artist and that teaching is an art. But seeing that it was one of the only spaces on campus that was able to operate without being beheld to standardized tests.

 

It was one of the few places that was not a segregated space. It was large comprehensive high school, very, ethnic racially, diverse school. However, the classrooms themselves are completely segregated and still are to this day. So, the arts and the performing arts were one space. Students were coming together and making meaning of everything else.

 

So, all the other disciplines were coming together, and this is the place that a young person could grapple with them and make them make sense in their own lives. And so, I think the more I realized that what I was talking about to other teachers was a   arts integration or integrating, or doing education through the arts, because it's liberating, because it gives students voice decision capacity to practice being an adult. All of those elements are present in the educational experience outside of this old standardized-test-bound routine. Yeah.

 

BC: [00:07:13] Did you have a sense, was the school enthusiastically supportive of your refuge that you created there?

 

JM: [00:07:21] Yeah, no, I think that's the old thing of asking forgiveness, not permission in terms of taking the risks. I went ahead and did things that I felt were important for the students. So, for example, first year when there hadn't been the arts they'd been cut out for so many years, as and we did an open mic Friday.

 

And so I would say, no, not all of the campus was excited about having large rap battles on campus every Friday. But boy, did I get the most amazing performers to show up? They would have never shown up otherwise and become core to the b

building of that program. Students truly with a passion for performing.

 

BC: [00:08:01] Well, and also there are a lot of things at school that a lot of kids don't look forward to, and it's great to have something that is really exciting. That's happening. That's maybe even surprising, right?

 

JM: [00:08:13] Yeah., the way that students, who have been marginalized or failing their other subject matter. So suddenly if they're center stage as a star, performing with brilliance it's a way for even other teachers to have an asset-based understanding of them, to really see them for them, their true selves, because they're bringing their true selves to the work rather than trying to fit into a model that wasn't created to serve them at all.

 

BC: [00:08:40] Yeah. So, 15 years you were there.

 

JM: [00:08:43] I was there 10. So, I've been gone since 2015. So, I guess six years now.

 

Part Two: Studio Pathways

 

BC: [00:08:53) OK, So, you are in your new chapter now, really comparatively, and you've created this Studio Pathways as a advisor to people involved in education and all kinds of areas. Do you want to talk about that?

 

 JM: [00:09:08] Yes, I do. So, it started as myself and one other. Jan Hunter was the only other theater teacher in all of Oakland when I was teaching theater. Which just think about that for a second--- we've got Oakland with incredible artists coming out of Oakland. We can think of some academy award winners, right? And no theater artists, teaching artists in any of the public schools. So, it started with Oakland Theater Arts Initiative, training history and English teachers to become theater teachers at their school site so that students had access. And yeah.

 

BC: [00:09:42] What a great idea. And you had support for that.

 

JM: [00:09:45] I had some support for that. Yeah. So, there were some great measures in Oakland that the taxpayers were paying for some arts programming for several years, understanding that they'd been really cut out because of prop 13 and all of that. And so, a couple of measures passed that helped focus funding on the arts for that time period.

 

BC: [00:10:05] You created, in essence creative leadership among non-arts teachers. And does that persist?

 

JM: [00:10:13] Several of the teachers are still teaching theater. Several of those programs are award-winning. I'm thinking of, amazing, Awele Makeba, who's at Skyline High School. And she was just in the presenting, the HBO special around the MLK Oratorical Fest that takes place each year and went through that program.

 

She was already an amazing theater artist, but that was a part of that cohort of folks. That gave me my love for teaching teachers. I think that experience of getting to work with other educators and being in inside---Can we transform education together? That got me very excited about that. And so, I moved on to the Alameda County Office of Education, where I teamed up in co-leadership with my partner in crime now, Mariah Rankin Landers, who's my Studio Pathways Co-director, co-founder. And she and I were co-directors of a program called The Integrated Learning Specialists Program there. And so that was training teachers in arts integration, basically. So, we would go through a series of learning about how to collaborate with their curriculum, how to think about assessment differently as a dialogue with a student, with dialogue, with the material and really just how to engage themselves as artists as educators in the classroom and shift the way they did education.

 

BC: [00:11:33] so I know one of the tensions that all teachers have is how to fulfill the requirements, the structures, the expectations of the system they work in. And sometimes under difficult circumstances with a lot of shifting demands. And every once in a while, someone comes around with a great new idea.

 

 But one of the things that I know you've worked with the Kennedy center as well. Yeah. And one of the things I've really appreciated about the Kennedy center is they treat teachers like they're very special. And it seems to me that's what you're doing as well.

 

It's not like here's another continuing education credit for you. It's, “You are an artist and you can be a creator in the classroom.” Is that accurate?

 

JM: [00:12:18] that's accurate, that's it? I think that's really, it is elevating. The art of teaching to its highest level, which is really this transmission of wisdom, right? If we look human history, we're talking about a very different frame than the last hundred years of what education is, and how we pass on ethics, and values, and culture,s and art forms through education.

 

Those were the primary functions as well as tools for survival and somehow all of that, including the tools for survival, seem a bit out the window with our industrialized education frame, right?

 

BC: [00:12:54] Yeah, really tough. One of the other questions I had is that, given your long history, if there's a story that has unfolded that really personifies what you feel is most powerful, beneficial, about your work. Got one for us?

 

JM: [00:13:11] I guess in, in thinking about the teachers I will point to our most recent work with the Solano County Office of Education, which people don't generally think of county offices of education as particularly transformative spaces.

 

However, the folks who've come together, there are doing work that. Is taking a long view. So, we invite folks to use contemporary artists as their guides long frame thinking, strategic daydreaming,...

Transcripts

CSCW EP 26 Jessa Brie Moreno

BC: [:

There are very few who would disagree with the idea that our children, their safety, their ability to learn are of primary importance to all of us as a community. But sometimes, maybe I should say all too often, what we do in that realm, how we treat our children, does not align with that sentiment. This is particularly true with our schools, which many regard as the clearest reflection of how society values as children, and, by extension, nurtures and grows its future.

The other sound that has been missing from our children's lives is the voice of the teacher. Together with them in the classroom, encouraging, cajoling, pointing the way, providing the substance, the way points, and the glue for their learning journey.

Among many other things, Jessa, Brie Moreno is a teacher of teachers. Through a program. she founded with her colleague, Mariah Rankin Landers, called Studio Pathways. She describes this work as helping educators give birth to the rigor and magic inherent to the art of teaching. As a theater artist and teacher, herself, she knows this territory intimately. She also knows that if we, as a society, are going to deliver on the promise, embodied in all those joyous, unexpected voices. Once again, filling the air back in the classrooms and playgrounds of the world, our teachers will be at the critical center.

t this and much more in early:

Part One: The Art. Of Teaching

So, Jessa if someone were to put a moniker on you, or your work what would it be?

JM: [:

BC: [:

JM: [:

BC: [:

JM: [:

So, I fortunately, my mother's also an artist educator, taught ceramics her whole life. So I think I had it in my bones, whether I wanted to or not. And then found my way to Oakland Technical High School – A big, comprehensive public high school in Oakland, California, where I got to start the performing arts program that's been there for the last 15 years now.

BC: [:

And were you interested and excited by that realm of work early on as a kid?

JM: [:

BC: [:

JM: [:

(Also) Cesar Chavez, different activists through her art. So, her work was really developing art. That was her activism. So, I was witness to that as the base culture of my life.

BC: [:

JM: [:

BC [:

So, talk about education, much of the work I know that you do focuses on making and doing experiential work both with teachers and with students. Could you talk about why you think that's an important element of learning for humans?

JM: [:

It was one of the few places that was not a segregated space. It was large comprehensive high school, very, ethnic racially, diverse school. However, the classrooms themselves are completely segregated and still are to this day. So, the arts and the performing arts were one space. Students were coming together and making meaning of everything else.

So, all the other disciplines were coming together, and this is the place that a young person could grapple with them and make them make sense in their own lives. And so, I think the more I realized that what I was talking about to other teachers was a arts integration or integrating, or doing education through the arts, because it's liberating, because it gives students voice decision capacity to practice being an adult. All of those elements are present in the educational experience outside of this old standardized-test-bound routine. Yeah.

BC: [:

JM: [:

And so I would say, no, not all of the campus was excited about having large rap battles on campus every Friday. But boy, did I get the most amazing performers to show up? They would have never shown up otherwise and become core to the b

building of that program. Students truly with a passion for performing.

BC: [:

JM: [:

BC: [:

JM: [:

Part Two: Studio Pathways

BC: [:

JM: [:

BC: [:

JM: [:

BC: [:

JM: [:

She was already an amazing theater artist, but that was a part of that cohort of folks. That gave me my love for teaching teachers. I think that experience of getting to work with other educators and being in inside---Can we transform education together? That got me very excited about that. And so, I moved on to the Alameda County Office of Education, where I teamed up in co-leadership with my partner in crime now, Mariah Rankin Landers, who's my Studio Pathways Co-director, co-founder. And she and I were co-directors of a program called The Integrated Learning Specialists Program there. And so that was training teachers in arts integration, basically. So, we would go through a series of learning about how to collaborate with their curriculum, how to think about assessment differently as a dialogue with a student, with dialogue, with the material and really just how to engage themselves as artists as educators in the classroom and shift the way they did education.

BC: [:

But one of the things that I know you've worked with the Kennedy center as well. Yeah. And one of the things I've really appreciated about the Kennedy center is they treat teachers like they're very special. And it seems to me that's what you're doing as well.

It's not like here's another continuing education credit for you. It's, “You are an artist and you can be a creator in the classroom.” Is that accurate?

JM: [:

Those were the primary functions as well as tools for survival and somehow all of that, including the tools for survival, seem a bit out the window with our industrialized education frame, right?

BC: [:

JM: [:

However, the folks who've come together, there are doing work that. Is taking a long view. So, we invite folks to use contemporary artists as their guides long frame thinking, strategic daydreaming, right? So different way of approaching what they're looking at. Thinking into the next seven generations in terms of outcomes, instead of just, what do you want this year or next year and already we've seen.

One educator in particular, who's an art teacher in middle school came to the realization that, even though she's a tremendous art teacher, teaching wonderful skills to her students, every single artist she presented to her students was white, male, Euro-centric person.

And so, she had the awakening of, “Oh no, I didn't even notice this. That was what I was taught in art history.” And so, she went about that on her own process of discovery of “Who am I going to center instead? Who's representative of my students?” -- her mostly Latin X students. And she just reframed her entire curriculum for the year using similar themes, similar concepts, but was able to just reframe.

And the similar thing is happening in the county with us starting with land acknowledgements, very basic kind of restart for meetings or ritual for our meetings means they're really internalizing that. Who are the indigenous folks? Are we collaborating with them? There's now an elementary school that's working with indigenous language and working with farming. And so, we're just seeing these pieces of ---"If we dream a little bit bigger and take some risks on behalf of our students, things are actually changing.” I've been very moved by their work.

BC: [:

JM: [:

We then focus on creative inquiry. So, we ask educators to think about what are they actually curious about? What do they not know the answer to ,and pose that question to their students and research it together, right? Let's go on a journey together and make it exciting in that way, follow your passion.

We then, I think one thing that makes studio pathways really unique, and one of the reasons we left the county office of education was to focus on the concept of reconciliation or reckoning. So, taking it from, south African truth and reconciliation, the knowledge that we really haven't had a practice of reconciliation this country, that's why we're facing what we're facing right now.

And so, through that, educators need to be able to do power analysis in the classroom. They need to understand what's happening between teacher and students, between genders and races. And they need to understand what that means, and how that plays out, and then their own role in either disrupting or perpetuating that.

So that's a real key due to what we're asking people to do. And the way that we do it is through the arts. So, we'll point to contemporary artists, in particular, who are focused on this.

BC: [:

JM: [:

Now that portrait, it's a beautiful dress. And she uses the concept of gray scale in coloring the skin of her characters. So, she's using Mars, yellow and black together. As a way of blending. Colors and thinking about identity. So, she's using the metaphor, the color metaphor for identity.

And so, this will be something we'll ask our educators to go through is, get your watercolors or even your tea and your coffee and paint your own gray scale, self-portrait. What is your racialized American identity? How does it, how did it come to be? Can you tell that story? And can you tell the story of your students or allow them to do this?

So, we have come to understand this together. Again, shame is never useful in moving forward. So, in ways that are artful creative and show possibility on the other side. Yeah.

BC: [:

JM: [:

BC: [:

JM: [:

And so, any educator looking for that generally will work mostly in California, but as you said, we're working now with Michelle Obama's legacy project with the Turnaround Arts Network nationally, and some other spaces that are really beautiful that way. And we also work with arts organizations who want to educate in this way.

Part Three. Now More Than Ever

BC: [:

That's it that's quite a mission. That's a terrific thing. And the thing that I really appreciate is that in many ways your curriculum is a challenge to the status quo and that there are people taking you up on it. Cause not too long ago, this kind of work was a struggle to even make it happen.

JM: [:

That's it? Most people do go into education with really good intent, even if their impact ends up being different along the way. And I think that's one of the saddest things, is so many people leave education because they recognize they're a part of this system that's doing harm.

And so, they leave and instead, finding a way that they can enter with integrity and stay with integrity is a big deal. It's a very hard ask to, to make those disruptions. But once it happens, there's so much more joy in this kind of education for the teacher, for the student that, it seems like the only way that we're going to make it through to the other side.

BC: [:

A teacher who's making beautiful things happen with their students is a privileged person,

JM: [:

It's a viable profession that will bring them a livelihood and joy in their lives and being of service. But also. for this moment, especially for white female identified teachers, such as myself, who teach primarily students of color, really needing to do that work really like lifelong, never ending work of thinking about power and positionality. That you can't enter a classroom and not have that be something that you're grappling with and considering. And so, this is another reason that this kind of education that de-centers the teacher and really puts the creativity on the student, the inquiry to the student, the critical thinking to the student is even that much more important.

I would say if there's a white educator in the classroom, right? Because you're not entering your own wisdom as the high truth, but actually the students come with their own wisdom intact and you're there for them to build upon it.

BC: [:

So, one thing that that you're interested in that I'm really interested in is brain science. I am not an expert, just someone who just reads voraciously and tries to understand the science. And the obvious place that you have focused your thinking about this is how people learn and how human creativity and the imagination function and the work of finding meaning in the world. Could you talk a little bit more about that?

JM: [:

And so she's really elevated the understanding that the human brain is wired to learn through patterns, games, music, art, rhythm, that's how we have been wired as human beings. And so those are the pathways to acquisition of knowledge. So, when we engage in those art forms, we're actually activating our brains capacity at a much fuller awareness and retention rate than we are otherwise when we're doing rote memorization.

For example, although memorizing a poem by wrote, for example, is one of those patterns. There's the ways it's not like we're throwing everything out, but I think that's really important. And then the other piece of that is culture, right? That the way we understand learning is through culture.

And one of the other things she brings up that I think is so essential is this difference between individuated knowledge and collective wisdom or learning together. So, we are really talking a lot about how do we move from this very individualistic ---"I get an A, I'm on my way to a success regardless of everyone else's failure.” To. How do we as a community or a collective come together to lift one another up in the acquisition of wisdom? Yeah, this is great because in theater, that's what it's all about. Ensemble work theater is this, as is ensemble work and music. As as a musician, it's all about tuning in picking up on each other's rhythms. I'm not a musician. Maybe you can say more.

BC: [:

JM: [:

Part Four. Making Space for Belonging

BC: [:

JM: [:

So, we have to use the arts, and. If each of us is invoking our gifts, our internal gifts that we were brought here with intact. That's a bit of an anticapitalistic thing to do, to bring one's own gifts to the table and pursue them all the way. So, I think we have to find ways that people's gifts are honored, and they don't end up having to become a cog in a system and a wheel. I think that is killing our spirits in many ways within whichever institution we're inside of. So, how can we break open the institutions enough to actually contain the human spirit? I think that's it.

And I'm so astounded at how many people are ready for this. Everyone I speak to actually, and I know I'm in the Bay Area of California. However, speaking across the country, people are ready to take that risk because they know where we are, and we love our children.

BC: [:

Which really literally through an organization called Appalshop, which has 50 years of working in coal country in that part of the world literally trying to help people who have been both self-isolated and been isolated by geography and poverty find new pathways to power.

And one story he tells that really personifies, I think, what we started talking about, which is experiential learning. He said the conversations he has with people who are it basically described it as a retail politics that don't even live in my shopping mall. They are very different from his and being able to say, if we fix a hole in a roof together, if we dig a hole in the earth together, if we make music together, if we organize solar panels together and save money together, all that goes by the wayside.

It's what we do together that forms the story. It was the core of our conversation. I think it resonates with this conversation. Which is, every child, every teacher comes into the studio with this rich body of story. Some of which have been ignored, some of which are latent, or evolving and you're saying, bring it on, yeah. That's what we're here for. Let's go for it.

JM: [:

The other thing about this moment we're in is that most educators, we haven't experienced a liberatory education ourselves. And so we don't know what it looks like. And so, we need to be able to find pathways for that too, that we are representing freedom for and with our students. And so that students can imagine it for themselves. I think that's just somehow a great piece of the transformative moment we're in right now.

BC: [:

JM: [:

“Oh, none. None. None. I'm not an artist. I only quilt. I only cook. I only make. Dolls. I only make this craft from my culture.” So, there’s abundance of artists report out. But this recognition that it's not signed and put on a museum wall, so it's not art. Pulling that myth out--- that we're, we really are all artists.

Yeah.

BC: [:

So if someone saw this podcast and said, oh wow, I want to be in the studio with Jessa how would they do that? How would they connect to what you're up to?

JM: [:

BC: [:

JM: [:

BC: [:

Change, the Story / Change the World is a production of the Center for The Study Of Art & Community. It's written and produced by yours truly Bill Cleveland, our editor is the ever-accurate Andre Nnebe, our glorious soundscape and theme are by Judy Munsen. And our inspiration comes from you. And the mysterious. Uke 235. Adios.