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An American HIV journalist and long-term survivor reflects on four decades of living with HIV, from the pre-AIDS era of early 1980s West Hollywood to the age of Undetectable equals Untransmittable.
Summary
In 1980, Mark S King was a 19-year-old with a strawberry blonde fringe who won a car on The Price Is Right. His boyfriend Charlie was in the audience wearing a matching outfit. Five years later, a friend tested him for HIV after hours in a doctor's office - off the record, because a positive result could cost him his home and his job. The phone call that followed was brief: you're HIV positive, good luck, goodbye. No referral, no medication, no next steps. There was nothing to offer.
What followed was a decade spent in the thick of the West Hollywood AIDS crisis - running experimental drugs across the Mexican border, holding dying friends' hands through the Shanti Foundation, and finding moments of wilful joy on San Diego dance floors. Mark lost Ron at 26 in a Connecticut nursing home, Marcos to CMV blindness and suicide, and Lesley surrounded by friends singing him songs. When combination therapy arrived in 1996, the relief came tangled with guilt, confusion, and maxed-out credit cards. Forty years on, Mark sits on a porch in Atlanta with his husband Michael and calls happiness the only revolution he has left.
Key Moments
- [00:02] The strawberry blonde twink - Mark's childhood in Louisiana as an Air Force brat, finding role models in community theatre, and navigating desire in the Deep South
- [07:20] Winning a car on national television - the Price Is Right appearance in 1980, the matching outfits, and why Mark keeps returning to that footage as a snapshot of the "just before"
- [15:27] An encounter with Rock Hudson - a dinner in West Hollywood, an invitation back, and the world-weariness of a closeted star three years from dying on the nightly news
- [22:25] The envelope on the table - testing positive in 1985, the after-hours blood draw, and the two-week wait for a result that came with nothing attached
- [24:44] The Shanti Foundation and learning not to fix people - volunteering with the dying, the philosophy of compassionate presence, and the bank teller with Kaposi's sarcoma who just stopped showing up
- [30:36] Drug running to Tijuana - smuggling AZT across the border, packing it under the spare tyre, and dancing to Laura Branigan on the way home. Wilful joy.
- [35:49] Dick, Emile, and the brandy glass - Mark's brother and his partner's final act of love - assisted suicide.
- [41:11] The Lazarus effect - combination therapy arrives in 1996, and the impossible emotional whiplash of being told you might actually live
- [44:46] Long-term survivor as relic - why Mark resists being turned into a symbol, and why HIV remains the most fascinating societal mirror he knows
- [49:32] Joy as a mission statement - not bravado but disposition, and the message he would send back to the boy arriving in West Hollywood: trust your instincts
Dedication
Mark remembers Antoine, a gender-fluid young Black man in gold lamé who died of AIDS only a few years ago - a reminder that the crisis is not history for everyone.
About Mark S King
Mark S King is an American HIV journalist, essayist, and NLGJA LGBTQ Journalist of the Year. His memoir My Fabulous Disease: Chronicles of a Gay Survivor was published in 2024. He was inducted into the NLGJA Hall of Fame in 2025 and is a GLAAD Award winner. He lives in Atlanta with his husband Michael. His blog is My Fabulous Disease.
Resources
- My Fabulous Disease — Mark's blog and writing archive
- Terrence Higgins Trust — Long-term survivor support (UK)
- National AIDS Trust — HIV and the law in the UK
- The 2025–2030 UK HIV Action Plan
If you have been affected by the themes in this episode, support is available at tht.org.uk.
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcripts
00;00;07;03 - 00;00;34;21
Dan Hall
Welcome to HIV the morning after. I'm Dan Hall. I'm a documentary producer and director. I've spent my entire adult life watching ignorance and prejudice play out around HIV. And frankly, I'm tired of it. And I'm sure many of you are too. This podcast is an attempt to do something about that. By doing what I do best, interviewing people and letting them tell their own stories.
00;00;34;23 - 00;00;57;13
Dan Hall
So I can make these episodes, but I can't make people listen to them or find them on their algorithms. That beats down to you. Please rate, review and share. HIV the morning after. All right then, let's get started.
00;00;57;16 - 00;01;25;13
Dan Hall
m speaking with Mark King. In:00;01;25;15 - 00;01;50;23
Dan Hall
So in the 40 years between then and now. Mark has watched an entire generation die. Nearly didn't make it through his own survival. And came out on the other side with what he calls his mission statement joy. As a big fuck you to HIV Aids. He is one of America's most decorated HIV journalists. The NLG, GS LGBTQ journalist of the year and a Cloud Award winner.
00;01;50;29 - 00;02;09;07
Dan Hall
cted into the Hall of Fame in:00;02;09;10 - 00;02;16;18
Mark S King
Thank you so much, Dan. It's it's great to be here. I guess the longer you live, the longer your introduction. Yes.
00;02;16;21 - 00;02;31;05
Dan Hall
I'm sorry. Little did you know that the whole podcast was just my voice. And you just had to find snippets of speaking and then thank you. That's all the time we have. Yeah. Thank you, Mark, for being a guest on this show.
00;02;31;08 - 00;02;40;04
Dan Hall
So then before you were the HIV guy with the keyboard and before West Hollywood and before any of that, where did it all begin for you?
00;02;40;06 - 00;03;02;01
Mark S King
Well, let's see, I was, raised in a large family. My dad was an officer in the Air Force. So I'm an Air Force brat, and we lived all over the place. We moved every couple of years. But by the time I was about eight years old, he retired in, Louisiana, where he was last stationed. And so I kind of grew up in Louisiana.
00;03;02;02 - 00;03;05;04
Mark S King
That's where I call home, where the rest of my family is.
00;03;05;07 - 00;03;09;04
Dan Hall
Can you tell us what it was like growing up there for a young queer boy?
00;03;09;06 - 00;03;35;06
Mark S King
Oh, boy. Well, it was the Deep South, and it was, the late 60s and early 70s, when I was coming of age and, it was, I had to figure out the nature of my own desire and to find in myself the ability to accept that. And not freak out and, and find role models.
00;03;35;06 - 00;04;04;15
Mark S King
You know, there were slim pickings in the Deep South. And yet I found community theatre, and I would do the summer musicals or help build the SATs or whatever, just so I could be kind of in the company of, grown gay men who didn't hate themselves and, seemed well-adjusted. And I kind of leaned into them for kind of acceptance and support.
00;04;04;18 - 00;04;31;26
Dan Hall
And those men are so important. I remember when I was a teenager, when I was kind of 15, 16, doing a youth program with the English National Opera. And as part of that, we worked with, pianists, the rehearsal pianist. And I remember this one guy, Alex, who must have been early 20s, just being like, I see you and it will be fine, but done in this really gentle, unspoken way.
00;04;31;29 - 00;04;37;23
Dan Hall
And it meant so much to me. You know, those those early role models are so important to us, aren't they?
00;04;37;25 - 00;05;07;22
Mark S King
Yes they are. Now. And I don't want to suggest that they were all, I know that they were, they were all, gracious, role models who were there only for my best interest. I, exploited my own burgeoning sexuality, throughout my teenage years because it was the only language I had. I it was the only way I knew how to communicate.
00;05;07;22 - 00;05;27;00
Mark S King
And while not all of them were receptive to my advances and, became my friends anyway, and trying to guide me, maybe, and, stay for directions, there's no doubt that I use, sexuality as a language for, validation and acceptance.
00;05;27;02 - 00;05;41;02
Dan Hall
This was a very different America from the one we know now, wasn't it? And you've got Nixon as president. You're. And, you know, the Vietnam War is collapsing. And you are this emerging hot young twink.
00;05;41;04 - 00;06;03;08
Mark S King
As I grew into adulthood, I, of course, I understood that so much of gay life is transactional. And, so much of it is based on our currency meaning, our youth or our looks or our bodies. And, and I figured that one out fairly young. I, I, I'm not exactly proud of that. That was just the journey I took.
00;06;03;11 - 00;06;28;05
Mark S King
And, it really took a lifetime to kind of sort out. And I think I'm still sorting it out in, What my currency is. I mean, you know, you said some very nice things about me in your introduction, and all of those accomplishments are true. I, I, like many people, in the first to doubt my self-worth and, at least was sex.
00;06;28;05 - 00;06;37;02
Mark S King
And this was a recurring theme throughout my life, at least, was sex. It was kind of like, if I do this, I will get that.
00;06;37;05 - 00;06;44;28
Dan Hall
But do you think maybe you're being unfair on yourself because isn't isn't that how life works? Isn't that how we learn to live life.
00;06;45;00 - 00;07;08;23
Mark S King
Well, sure. We have to compare and contrast throughout our lives. How did that feel? How did that make me feel? Did it work for me or should I try something else?
00;07;08;25 - 00;07;20;16
Dan Hall
And so how did you get involved then in the TV show The Price Is Right? Because at 19, getting on mainstream television is is quite a social entry.
00;07;20;19 - 00;07;47;07
Mark S King
It was just a game show that was very popular and is still is. It's been going on for decades. And, Bob Barker was the host and people would come down and bid on products and, and the whole point of the show was you were bidding on the, the, the value or the, the sales price of different products and, and and through various games and then hopefully, you know, you win, a washer dryer or whatever the, the price of the day was.
00;07;47;10 - 00;08;11;19
Mark S King
And when I was, gosh, 19 years old, my boyfriend and I at the time visited Los Angeles and, there was a line to get in to watch the show, you know? And so I stood in line with everybody else. And, there was a producers walking the line and talking to people who were waiting to get in and taking notes.
00;08;11;22 - 00;08;20;18
Mark S King
And as soon as he got up to them, I said, hi there, I'm marching. And I came all the way from New Orleans, Louisiana, just to be on this show.
00;08;20;21 - 00;08;23;28
Dan Hall
I look at my Farrah Fawcett curls.
00;08;24;00 - 00;08;29;24
Mark S King
Yes. Yes. My long strawberry blonde locks were waving in the wind.
00;08;29;27 - 00;08;35;21
Studio Engineer
No price is right. Show number 101-100 11 D er TVA.
00;08;35;24 - 00;08;49;04
Mark S King
And, sure enough, I was one of the first four contestants called down to the bidding stations and, and then won the first prize and got up on stage with Bob Barker.
00;08;49;07 - 00;08;57;28
Studio Engineer
Now, Marty, you are a fine looking young fella. What do you do? I'm a student at the University of New Orleans. Oh you are? Any student would love.
00;08;58;00 - 00;09;01;20
Mark S King
The long and the short of it. It was, five minutes later. I had won a car.
00;09;01;23 - 00;09;09;22
Studio Engineer
You'd be. You have a girlfriend back there at the University of New Orleans? Several. Do you? You'd have several more if you get hold of this. Now.
00;09;09;24 - 00;09;25;22
Mark S King
My boyfriend was in the audience wearing a matching outfit because we were in that early wearing, matching outfit stage of our relationship, and he was, oh, Charlie. Gosh, he was such a handsome Texan with his big pornstar moustache.
00;09;25;25 - 00;09;30;25
Studio Engineer
I'm not sure that I have ever had a contestant in any better shape than you are right now.
00;09;31;02 - 00;09;53;01
Mark S King
I return to that. I write about it in my book, but I, I even when I do presentations and stuff, I will show that video. And I guess the reason I do is because it is a snapshot of this young man just before, just before, you know, I had my whole life ahead of me. I had this handsome boyfriend, you know, things were going great.
00;09;53;01 - 00;10;22;15
Mark S King
I was going to move to Los Angeles and take the world by storm and live happily ever after. And, you know, within a few short years that, that all changed.
00;10;22;17 - 00;10;40;09
Dan Hall
And when you did that taping of The Price Is Right, there were no rumours were there at that time. There were no dark clouds or somebody knows somebody who knows somebody who wasn't. Well, who's got this cancer? It it was nothing, wasn't there? You were in a state of absence.
00;10;40;12 - 00;11;04;22
Mark S King
Yes, yes.:00;11;04;22 - 00;11;12;01
Mark S King
And so I report, by the way, I took zero interest in, it had nothing to do with me, I thought.
00;11;12;03 - 00;11;25;11
Dan Hall
It must have been in December:00;11;25;13 - 00;11;26;11
Mark S King
Oh, yes.
00;11;26;13 - 00;11;37;11
Dan Hall
And it just reminded me of that last sense of, oh, that's some. Oh, you know, even if I have seen that, that's something that happens far away and is so irrelevant to me. And I'm going to get back to watching soap operas.
00;11;37;14 - 00;12;13;14
Mark S King
Yes, yes. And as that pandemic crept closer to our lives, it had real resonance and, emotional, traumatic triggers, for those of us who had been there before and, the feeling that something was creeping closer, something bad, something unimaginable before that happened. I didn't even think past the next beer bust. I didn't think past beyond the next, going to the gym and seeing who follows me out of the locker room.
00;12;13;14 - 00;12;22;26
Mark S King
It was just that kind of existence that, you know, I was also young, and so were young and vapid. And that's the way we live our life, you know?
00;12;23;00 - 00;12;45;27
Dan Hall
But I do like how you talk about being young and vapid, not as, self-criticism, but just as a place where you were in your life. You battle against this idea that young people today should cowed down and in gratitude for everything that we've done and everything that we've lived through. I don't actually know what was the point of what we've done as activists.
00;12;45;27 - 00;12;59;01
Dan Hall
What is the point of what we do if young people can't walk through a room head held high and ignore us and fuck the people they want? Because that's kind of what it's about. It's not about them. Then sort of bowing down to us and saying, thank you.
00;12;59;03 - 00;13;14;02
Mark S King
And that's not why I did it. I didn't do it so that I would come out the other side and, people would grant me credit reference. You know, that's not why I did it.
00;13;14;04 - 00;13;33;13
Dan Hall
So going back to the West Hollywood of the early 80s, which I love how you described, by the way, as analogue crazy because this like this idea of a world without apps, because I, I've literally just gotten rid of mine about 2 or 3 months ago. And I'm rediscovering analogue cruisy London and it's so much better.
00;13;33;16 - 00;13;36;10
Mark S King
Oh, you're singing my song The Good Old Days.
00;13;36;13 - 00;13;52;23
Dan Hall
You know, literally last night I was at a bar. And when you're when you'll horniness, all your validation isn't satisfied by your phone. You get more confident in those spaces. And I was out last night and I was dancing, and I was eyeing up hot guys across the room, and it was great.
00;13;52;25 - 00;14;13;27
Mark S King
Yes. And, you know, you might meet one of those people and you might have some sort of, connection or dalliance, and you're going to come to them not knowing how they answered the 87 questions on the app or seen photos of their dick or something in their ass, you're not going to see any of that. It's all going to be discovered.
00;14;13;29 - 00;14;36;02
Mark S King
And I think that's what we miss, as has probably been very well chronicled, is what we're missing here is the moment of discovery. And I don't just mean what he pulls out of his pants, although that's a lovely discovery, too. It is about who they are and the smell of them and the the the chemistry of them.
00;14;36;05 - 00;15;11;10
Mark S King
Because we're swiping past people that we could have incredible chemistry, if we would just allow ourselves to walk up to them across the bar or my favourite Dan living in West Hollywood and walking down a sidewalk and crossing paths with somebody and your heart is racing and you're feeling tingly and you decide to turn around, and so has he.
00;15;11;12 - 00;15;14;05
Dan Hall
Had.
00;15;14;08 - 00;15;27;23
Dan Hall
s West Hollywood in you in:00;15;27;26 - 00;15;49;29
Mark S King
Yes, I did, and, and thank you for bringing it up. And I guess because you're in your 50s, you know who he is, because as time passes, there is nothing, more annoying than having a star fucking story when nobody knows who the star is. And so thank you for asking, and for understanding, Mr. Hudson, and his career.
00;15;50;01 - 00;16;21;16
Mark S King
Charlie and I, Charlie, he of The Price is Right taping and I had now been living in Los Angeles, and we were out for dinner at what was basically a gay bar restaurant, called New York Company. And, it was a nice place, you know, for gay restaurants generally suck. This one wasn't much better, but at least they had candles on the table and tablecloths sort of thing, and seated a couple of tables away was Rock Hudson.
00;16;21;16 - 00;16;42;28
Mark S King
I didn't see him first. He was behind me. Charlie saw. Yeah, he's you know, he's a Texan. He's like, oh my God. You know, you're not gonna believe this. Mark. Right behind you is Rock Hudson. And I immediately was jealous because Charlie was looking at him and not at me and, and frustrated because Charlie had a perfect view, and I didn't.
00;16;43;00 - 00;16;59;19
Mark S King
And, and we're we're talking about it, and I'm telling Charlie, leave him alone. Star should be left alone. Just leave him alone. And I suddenly hear a voice and it says, you mean have there any fun? And I look around and it is Rock Hudson and he is talking to us.
00;16;59;22 - 00;17;01;20
Dan Hall
Get out.
00;17;01;22 - 00;17;29;16
Mark S King
s is going back to, you know,:00;17;29;18 - 00;17;52;14
Mark S King
And I sit down beside him and we begin a conversation that goes on for the next hour or so. And, the topic of Trivial Pursuit came up. The game, which was at that time new and all the rage, and everybody was playing it. And, Rock says, you know, I haven't played that. And Charlie says, well, you know, you should play it some time and proxies.
00;17;52;15 - 00;18;25;17
Mark S King
I'd love to. And Charlie says, well, we have the game. Why don't we play it, together some time? And Rock says, sure. And Charlie says, how about tonight? And Rock says, sure. And I'm looking back and forth. Bowling. Barton wants to know what is happening. Charlie drives Hudson's dinner companion home. I get in his rolls and take him to our place, which was a crappy little walk up apartment in West Los Angeles at the time.
00;18;25;17 - 00;18;51;05
Mark S King
And, we get out there, he asks for some scotch. I, I have a full bottle of scotch because we don't drink it. So, Charlie gets home from taking the guy home. We get off the Trivial Pursuit, we actually play the game, and he wins. And, at some point, Charlie excuses himself to go to bed.
00;18;51;05 - 00;19;19;16
Mark S King
It is late. I'm not going anywhere. And so we have this perhaps unseemly. Scenario playing out, and, I don't know, within a few minutes, I drunkenly opened the pants of Mr. Rock Hudson and, and then took it into the bedroom and woke up Charlie and had a threeway.
00;19;19;18 - 00;19;42;06
Mark S King
Just for those who are deeply curious. Yes. Everything you've heard about the size of Rock Hudson's, Jack is absolutely true. It remains in the top five of of in my experience. And that's a lot of research.
00;19;42;08 - 00;20;14;15
Mark S King
There was a moment where I guess I was sitting on him or something, and I looked down. I think I have gotten off, and he's looking up at me and he says, are you done? I just remember that kind of face in the dark asking me that question. And it showed a world weariness to the game, a game that I was only still discovering and playing for myself.
00;20;14;17 - 00;20;31;15
Mark S King
The games we play, the hook-ups and the and the pandering and all of that, that game and it was suddenly a game that he was tired. He was tired of.
00;20;31;17 - 00;20;49;03
Mark S King
I told everybody I knew, the first thing the next morning, I was on the phone all morning, and depending on who they were, I told them meeting Rob, keep the restaurant. Or I might have told them inviting him home. And we played true your pursuit. Or if you're a different kind of friend. I told you the whole story.
00;20;49;05 - 00;20;58;04
Mark S King
I called my parents.
00;20;58;06 - 00;21;32;02
Mark S King
The the coda to all of that is that only a few years later, three years later, after that, he, would become an image on the television set on the nightly news every night. Rock Hudson has a rock. Hudson is getting experimental treatment in Paris. Oh, here's a shot of him from a helicopter as we see him being wheeled in a gurney to the latest, institute trying to fight this disease.
00;21;32;04 - 00;21;43;15
Mark S King
And I had to watch him die on TV every night. I couldn't pass a magazine rack without seeing his picture on it. I it was everywhere.
00;21;43;18 - 00;21;53;07
Dan Hall
I remember the the red top tabloid papers here screaming that Linda Evans had Aids because she had kissing scenes with him in dynasty.
00;21;53;11 - 00;21;55;08
Mark S King
Yes, I remember that. Well.
00;21;55;10 - 00;22;24;07
Dan Hall
And he passed away in October:00;22;24;07 - 00;22;24;26
Mark S King
Yes.
00;22;24;26 - 00;22;25;22
Dan Hall
What happened there?
00;22;25;29 - 00;22;48;16
Mark S King
I, I wanted to know, and it's funny because at the time, Aids activists and I did not by any means count myself as one. At that point, I hadn't entered the fray at all. But what I heard is don't take that. Just don't take it. There's nothing good that can possibly result from your taking the test. There are no medications.
00;22;48;16 - 00;23;13;28
Mark S King
There's nothing that can be done for you. But what will happen is that you will be discriminated against and kicked out by your roommate and disowned by your family. Why would you do that to yourself? Don't take it. And I saw it like an envelope sitting in front of me, a sealed envelope. And inside was an answer as to whether or not I would be alive in two years.
00;23;14;00 - 00;23;24;13
Mark S King
And would you open it? I would, I wanted to, so I knew.
00;23;24;16 - 00;24;07;04
Mark S King
I had a friend that worked in a doctor's office, and he saw me after hours because God forbid you do it on insurance. You don't want that on your record. You know? So we did it, you know, secretly, after hours, he took it was a blood test. It took two weeks for the result. And, I remember very vividly, him calling and, saying, I'm so sorry, but your test came back positive and good luck and hung up.
00;24;07;06 - 00;24;18;14
Mark S King
That was it. And that's all there could be. There was no. I will now refer you to a specialist or be sure to get on your meds. You know, none of that. There was nothing.
00;24;18;17 - 00;24;44;15
Mark S King
I realised, okay, if I'm going to be dead anyway, I want to. I'm going to do something. I got to get. I got to do something. I got to help, I whatever, and and I quit. What I was doing at the time, and I, and I went to work for. I got a job as a secretary at a local, Los Angeles Shanty Foundation that was an organisation, founded to help people die with dignity.
00;24;44;15 - 00;24;58;01
Mark S King
All they did was train volunteers to be with dying and hold their hand and not, humour them or not try to tell them, you know, keep fighting or it's going to be okay. Just be a compassionate presence.
00;24;58;04 - 00;25;02;17
Dan Hall
And there's that lovely expression, isn't there? You fix refrigerators, you don't fix people.
00;25;02;23 - 00;25;03;11
Mark S King
Yes.
00;25;03;17 - 00;25;07;01
Dan Hall
That really struck me. Could you explain that to the listeners?
00;25;07;01 - 00;25;44;21
Mark S King
Yes. The founder of Los Angeles Shanty. We used to work with cancer patients. The families were all like, keep fighting, you know? And, all the friends were saying, you're going to make it, you know? And he didn't see, terminal illness as something to be won or lost. He believes that the best thing we could do is simply, be an active listener and a compassionate presence to that person and meet them where they are, allow them to have the emotions they want to have, and don't try to fix them.
00;25;44;23 - 00;26;14;13
Mark S King
For a kid who had basically devoted my, life and free time to, another gym workout and, cruising the bars and what have you, the suddenly, come to an organisation and be working every day with volunteers who were helping people face mortality while at the same time that virus began killing my friends and finally made it to rival into my social circle.
00;26;14;13 - 00;26;19;23
Mark S King
And, did its worst. And I lost one after another.
00;26;19;25 - 00;26;33;03
Dan Hall
I was really struck in some of your writing where you even. And it's not even close friends necessarily, just the bank teller has Kaposi's sarcoma on his neck, and then he's not there on Friday and you never see them again.
00;26;33;05 - 00;27;03;11
Mark S King
It was, terrible. It was a graveyard. It was a nightmare from whence you could not wake up. And, it happened everywhere. It was in escape a bowl. I was living in West Hollywood, the but one of the epicentres of the epidemic. And largely gay. And, as you say, I think the guy, you know, checking you out at the counter, the guy that you've always chatted up, who cash your check at the bank, you know, they're gone.
00;27;03;13 - 00;27;15;07
Mark S King
They're gone. And you stop asking why. You know why.
00;27;15;09 - 00;27;40;04
Mark S King
Is it? There were also times where you would see. You see someone at the grocery store and you hadn't seen just an acquaintance, maybe somebody you don't know well, but you'd see them in the aisle. And it had been six months, and you went, they're alive.
00;27;40;07 - 00;27;52;25
Mark S King
And you would hug and that person would hug you right back because it was that recognition.
00;27;52;28 - 00;28;19;03
Mark S King
And, that was how life was. It was a constant movement from, you know, I, I facilitated a support group. And then I would go to work and another half dozen clients and died over the weekend. And then I would have to rush to the emergency room or to the intensive care where, for another friend was there, or planning the memorial to someone else who had died.
00;28;19;03 - 00;28;47;22
Mark S King
It was one thing after that there was so much to do to deal with, that when you're in the thick of that and it's hard to take in the totality of it, you just keep your head down and you keep walking. And for me, you played an invisible and hoped against hope because there was no evidence to suggest that I was getting out of this.
00;28;47;24 - 00;29;09;11
Mark S King
You know, every memorial, every intensive care scene was just a preview of coming attractions. You know, it was all right in front of me.
00;29;09;14 - 00;29;32;02
Mark S King
And there was humour, often very dark, but there was humour and laughter and sex and, kind of, you know, it's funny, people still think of the 80s kind of maybe as a period of sexual austerity where we all just zipped it up, you know, because, but if that were true, of course we would have stopped HIV in its tracks.
00;29;32;02 - 00;30;01;22
Mark S King
It wasn't true. And many of us were trying to find the joy of trying to find the life force and, and, and many sometimes that was fucking, sometimes that was fucking and and with great abandon. And as a way of just saying, I refuse to allow this to take away something from me. And I don't mean the politics of.
00;30;01;22 - 00;30;33;05
Mark S King
So we have a bathhouse or not. I'm talking about human to human. I will not let this keep me from my natural instinct to be close to another person.
00;30;33;08 - 00;30;36;02
Dan Hall
You got it to drug running?
00;30;36;05 - 00;30;59;22
Mark S King
Yeah, I think I was, I think I think that's exactly what I was. I think that I was, I, what do you call this people that. Yeah. So drug runner, you know, I, I snuck drugs into the country. Yes, I did, it was the early 80s. There were no medications. And I think by the mid mid 80s or so, there was talk of AZT.
00;30;59;22 - 00;31;20;17
Mark S King
I believe was I know that was the first drug, but I think that was the drug in question. There was talk that that might be something that were to course, there were always rumours of something that might work. And I took them all. Chart cartilage, people putting crystals on my body. I knew that you name it and I did it.
00;31;20;19 - 00;31;49;19
Mark S King
And, there was talk of this new drug and, AZT, and it was not available in the United States. It was not FDA approved, but you could get it in Tijuana. And Tijuana was a two hour drive or so from Los Angeles and, myself and Lesley and Ron and Marcos would, get in the car and drive to Tijuana on a Friday.
00;31;49;21 - 00;32;16;06
Mark S King
And as soon as we got to town, we split up and we went to all the pharmacies with with, some prescription, whether foraged or not. Maybe we had a, receptor doctor back in the US, but we we went to every pharm pharmacy, and we bought it out of this drug, and we loaded it into the car and, packed it under the, spare tire in the truck.
00;32;16;08 - 00;32;36;25
Mark S King
We were not very, you know, favourable drug smugglers by any means. We could certainly have been caught. And I don't know what they what what do they you do? It's not a heroin. It's easy to. Is that bad? I don't know. And then we would spend the weekend on the beach. We would rent a house, and we would get stoned, and we'd sit on the beach on or under fire and.
00;32;36;25 - 00;33;13;08
Mark S King
And, and then Sunday drive back and we would stop and, and the San Diego weather was a big day. Gay dance club there, the West Coast production company at the time. And we would stop there because it was just in time for their Sunday to dance their afternoon dance party. And I have very specific memory of being on that dance floor with my arms around Ron and Lesley and Marcos.
00;33;13;10 - 00;33;36;13
Mark S King
You know, when you're young and you're on the dance floor and your arms are all around each other and you're in like a group, like a huddle, and you're jumping up and down and you're dancing to Gloria. It's just such a specific memory of dancing to Laura Branigan and and not caring about Aids, not thinking about the drugs in the car.
00;33;36;15 - 00;33;41;08
Mark S King
It was wilful joy, wilful joy.
00;33;41;10 - 00;33;48;06
Unknown
Nowhere to be found.
00;33;48;09 - 00;33;50;06
Unknown
And,
00;33;50;08 - 00;34;04;20
Mark S King
And then, of course, they all died. All three of them. A friend explained to me at some point later, you know God is not in the drapes. Mark.
00;34;04;22 - 00;34;27;07
Mark S King
If you're looking for some sort of miracle, it's it's, it's a very real life miracle. It's in the here and now. It's the fact that Lesley had his closest friends around him and holding his hands and singing him songs and making sure he was comfortable. I mean, what bigger miracle to than that that that was that? I believe in what I can see.
00;34;27;09 - 00;34;55;15
Mark S King
I believe in what I can feel and and I felt the love of all of us for Lesley in that moment and, and, you know, his death was, you know, a good one. You know, he at least had that, you know, the others, you know, weren't as lucky. Marcos woke up, blind. He got, seeing the CMV retinitis, and it struck him, like, in the night.
00;34;55;16 - 00;35;28;24
Mark S King
Like he woke up and he was blind. He tried to deal with that, for a very short period of time and could not, And he put a bag over his head. And then the third Ron, he he was shipped back to family in Connecticut. And, his mother could not deal with it, could not deal with his, illness and incontinence and put him in a nursing home.
00;35;28;26 - 00;35;31;16
Dan Hall
And how old was he?
00;35;31;18 - 00;35;36;03
Mark S King
26 years old when he died. The nursing home. Okay.
00;35;36;06 - 00;35;49;15
Dan Hall
Now, your brother Richard, who you also called Dick, is also gay. And he lost his partner, a male, during this time. Would you tell us about that?
00;35;49;18 - 00;36;30;06
Mark S King
I was there, shortly after Amiel died. You fought valiantly, and the visits with him became more seldom. And the calls for my brother, became more seldom because they had entered that period where it's down to the two of them and it's so incredibly, precious and intimate that you reduce who is invited in, you know, and, they also had an agreement that a meal would let my brother know.
00;36;30;09 - 00;36;36;15
Mark S King
When the day became the day that he would leave.
00;36;36;18 - 00;37;11;28
Mark S King
And they had, collected, second holes, in the house. And they had them ready to go. And, a meal, announced to Dick he was frail at this point and announced to Dick, today is that day. Dick opened up all the signals and release the powder into this lash of brandy and, swirled it and he described this to me.
00;37;11;28 - 00;37;36;21
Mark S King
Later, I came over after a meal had died that night, and no mention of this was made. It was months before my brother was able to tell me the exact circumstances of Emile's passing, and my brother told me that he mixed up that drink and Emile wanted it. He can reach for. He wanted to take it, he wanted to drink it and and take want.
00;37;36;23 - 00;38;05;17
Mark S King
It's not. And Dick did not want to honour his wishes. He just wanted another minute to say I love you, Emile. And just wasn't able to stop him. A meal was ready. He took it. He gulped it down and Dick tells me this. My brother, he says, you know, a meal. Didn't believe in an afterlife or whatever.
00;38;05;17 - 00;38;29;13
Dan Hall
He believes that you pass away and things are done. And in the few moments they had before a meal fell asleep and then died, they said to him, I will miss you so much. And a meal said, I'm going to miss you too.
00;38;29;16 - 00;39;04;15
Mark S King
It was, an act of love. It was a love story from the first moment to the very last moment. It was as beautiful a passing as one could expect during a very tragic time. I always say I know exactly what man I want to be, because my brother was that man first. The day he lives with us, he retired and came to Atlanta and is, taking a nap in his bedroom downstairs.
00;39;04;17 - 00;39;08;19
Mark S King
And I love having him close to me.
00;39;08;21 - 00;39;30;01
Dan Hall
And for people listening to this who are shocked or horrified by that story, I'm just going to quote a bit of, your essay, which is available on your blog, suicide a love story in which you write, suicide was sorry. How?
00;39;30;03 - 00;39;52;18
Dan Hall
re of life for gay men in the:00;39;52;20 - 00;39;55;16
Dan Hall
And I can't think of a better way to to describe that.
00;39;55;17 - 00;40;18;03
Mark S King
Yes, yes. And as with all of these other aspects of life we're talking about, what remains is love and and nothing but good memories. Sitting on the nightstand downstairs, thanks to my sleeping brother, is a beautiful picture of of a meal. And that love continues and always will be. There.
00;40;18;05 - 00;40;33;21
Unknown
And I want to be a part.
00;40;33;24 - 00;40;40;03
Unknown
Number one.
00;40;40;05 - 00;41;06;07
Dan Hall
1996 comes and combination therapy arrives and everything is wonderful again. But actually, it's more complex than that because, you write about how, you know, in theory, suddenly this medication is available and you know, you're not going to die, and you should be really relieved and you should be ecstatic and and it should be. Oh, wow. Wow. You know, I saw it through to now.
00;41;06;07 - 00;41;11;08
Dan Hall
And now all the problems are over. But that's not what happened to you.
00;41;11;11 - 00;41;31;01
Mark S King
I had a life ahead of me and I was prepared to live. And then they said, you're going to die. And then you work for years to come to terms with that, to emotionally prepare for that. And then they say, oh, wait, no, sorry. It turns out you can do this. And you go once or all I am.
00;41;31;01 - 00;41;55;07
Mark S King
You mean, and then as so many people living with HIV during that period responded, you mean I quit my job and went on disability and ran up the credit cards and took a trip around the world and told my boss to go to hell, and now I'm going to live. Shut, because I had emotionally prepared myself to die.
00;41;55;10 - 00;42;23;27
Mark S King
And now I'm not. And I'm broke and haven't worked in ten years and what do I do now? And I know how ungrateful that sounds. And then you feel guilty for not feeling grateful. It is a mind fuck, you know, it. It, turns out that the person that you are ready to die with may not be the person you're ready to live with.
00;42;23;29 - 00;42;58;14
Mark S King
For those of us fortunate enough to have medical care and access to those medications that saved our lives, we are talking about the United States here. We all did. Health care is is not considered a human right. But for people like me, we were able to access them and it and changed suddenly into direction. For me, that meant continuing to do what I had been doing, which was being a voice for people living with HIV.
00;42;58;17 - 00;43;21;11
Mark S King
And, you know, to come full circle down in terms of, you know, I had once been trying my best to get on TV as an actor, right? And by this point, I was on TV as someone living with HIV. And I'm like, okay, I'll take it. It kills two birds. You know, I it's like, I have this.
00;43;21;11 - 00;43;21;25
Mark S King
I'll take.
00;43;21;25 - 00;43;23;29
Dan Hall
I'll take anything that gets me and.
00;43;24;01 - 00;43;24;23
Mark S King
You know, so.
00;43;24;24 - 00;43;25;26
Dan Hall
Do whatever it.
00;43;25;29 - 00;43;54;00
Mark S King
Is, show business, show business, you know, I mean, I am an actor and an extrovert and, and, don't mind admitting crave the spotlight and get to me on podcasts like yours. You know, but it's also true that I have, strengths. And, if one of those strengths is to be able to speak and write as a person living with HIV, and in doing so, I'm helping other people.
00;43;54;02 - 00;44;18;14
Mark S King
I'm telling the story, I'm educating those who weren't there, and I'm helping people who were then. Correct then. It's a win win for everybody. And so they and so here we are.
00;44;18;16 - 00;44;46;16
Dan Hall
When I initially started this podcast, I thought, oh, that's going to be it's going to be a really fantastic celebration of long term survivors. Is this is these Marvel or DC comics superheroes who have survived? It was fascinating looking at your writings, where in a way, that term, the long term survival, you kind of treat with some ambivalence in that sense that it doesn't tell the whole story.
00;44;46;18 - 00;44;48;20
Dan Hall
What do you think it leaves out?
00;44;48;22 - 00;45;10;27
Mark S King
I think it leaves out our humanity and puts our hearts and makes us symbols of some sort. It makes me feel like a relic, as something to be admired and examined, but that you're not going to get the whole story. You're going to see this symbol of me as this HIV survivor. And and I'm, I'm I'm to blame for that.
00;45;10;27 - 00;45;35;22
Mark S King
It's on my whole brand. I know that I, you know, I write as my fabulous disease. It is front and centre. So I own my part in that. But if for anyone who reads my writing ongoing, they know that I am very much involved and engaged in life in the here and now. You know, I wanted to be with you.
00;45;35;24 - 00;46;04;03
Mark S King
Who's going to win the Oscar coming up? And I've seen them all. And what's going on on Netflix and, my wonderful husband's, obsession with new cars and, you know, I that's where I live, and I don't even think about HIV in any practical way, period. I think about HIV in terms of, my community and the communities left behind and the work left to be done.
00;46;04;06 - 00;46;36;09
Mark S King
And that is what interests me. You know, HIV is just fascinating as a topic. It's fascinating because every single societal challenge, the transphobia, racism, homophobia, the church, condoms, bodily fluids, fucking, it's all wrapped up into this little viral particle and it makes us deeply uncomfortable. That's fascinating.
00;46;36;11 - 00;47;01;00
Mark S King
We got what we came for. We as gay men, we got what we came for. We got the we got the drugs and the support groups and the organisations and all of that. And then we left the playing field and we left behind, black and brown people, trans women, they both could not fend for themselves, and we left them behind to fend for themselves.
00;47;01;07 - 00;47;03;10
Dan Hall
Whole continents.
00;47;03;13 - 00;47;34;23
Mark S King
Yes, exactly. And, that's shameful. And I, I, I want to be very I want to make sure that this experience of having lived with HIV and gone through it, life is about addition and subtraction. I want my mind to be opened. I want my heart to be open to other people. Unlike myself.
00;47;34;26 - 00;47;50;07
Dan Hall
And I've got to say, when when we were talking earlier and and we were talking about you being this kind of delightful twink coming into the space when I was seeing pictures of you. Now I just I just kind of see this, these kind of huge shoulders. And I just think that doesn't look like a twink.
00;47;50;13 - 00;48;09;25
Mark S King
Oh, well, you know, thank God for, you know, the, ginger daddy, fixation. Where were you 50 years ago when I was a redhead? Nobody thought we were hot. Now, but, you know what? I'll take what I can get. Make no mistake about it, I'm still a very much, a victim. Or at least,
00;48;09;27 - 00;48;43;25
Mark S King
Oh. Lock, stock and barrel into what gay culture believes to be a value. And, if that means that with some working out and what I've learned over the years at the gym, I can keep my shoulders, big and round and look great in the tank top. I'm going to do it, by God. And, and I accept, by the way, any and all people who want to slip into my DMs to tell me how crazy it looks and, and then give me, pictures, to enjoy.
00;48;43;26 - 00;49;04;05
Mark S King
Go ahead. By all means. You know, because, I, I'm not going to have many more trips on this merry go round. I'm 65, you know, I'm I'm going to, I'm going to ride it until the wheels come off, as they say. But I do it with somebody that is very aware that there's a lot more to life.
00;49;04;05 - 00;49;14;20
Mark S King
I'm going to just try to enjoy all these various aspects of it as best I can. I think what you're trying to say is that I have great arms. Aren't isn't that where you were going with this?
00;49;14;22 - 00;49;18;29
Dan Hall
Yeah, it's basically okay. And and I was trying to disguise is intellect. Yeah. No.
00;49;19;01 - 00;49;21;17
Mark S King
Please don't. Please don't be bad.
00;49;21;20 - 00;49;32;08
Dan Hall
00;49;32;11 - 00;49;58;17
Dan Hall
And I did wonder on this recording whether your, your ethos of joy being the most important thing. Joy is this fuck you of HIV Aids. I wasn't sure whether that was just sort of on brand bravado, but speaking to you, you know, and we are an hour 45 into this recording. It is it isn't bravado, is it? You you really, really mean it.
00;49;58;19 - 00;50;18;03
Mark S King
I came this way. I was happy to begin with. I and maybe some of it was, a defence mechanism against things that scared me growing up and, you know, growing up gay and all that stuff. But I'm happy to be here. I'm thrilled to be here, and I, I enjoy, I feel happy about it. I got a great sense of humour.
00;50;18;03 - 00;50;40;11
Mark S King
I like to use it. I, I yeah, I am this this is this is absolutely who I am now, I'll be having I'll be happy to lower my voice and turn on a thick southern accent. If that gets me somewhere. But that's not me. I'm really just kind of a silly guy.
00;50;40;13 - 00;51;09;22
Dan Hall
And you, you've put in some of your writing this lovely image of you with your husband Michael, on the back porch and this sense of, I love my life. Things are just right at this very moment. And I love that because there's this sense of this is the skill above all that we need to learn. We need to learn where these pockets of happiness and and comfort are and recognise them when they're happening.
00;51;09;25 - 00;51;35;01
Mark S King
They are happening right now. I am very present to where I am in this very moment. I have got my earbuds in and a microphone in front of me, and I'm talking to you and I couldn't be more content and I, I can take that and soak it in and feel good. We're always looking for happiness ahead of us somewhere, all remembering some great things that happened to us.
00;51;35;04 - 00;52;10;24
Mark S King
That's all. Good anticipations, great memories. Great. I'm happy right here, right now. And I think that we get so caught up in these questions about what it all means and what is out there in our universe, in our lives, and trying to make sense of it. Nobody's spent more time navel gazing than me. And I think it is reduced to, sitting on the porch with my husband and my hand and his and looking at the yard and being happy.
00;52;10;25 - 00;52;34;21
Mark S King
What I see and what I feel, and that's it. Because there ain't going to be much more, than that. There's going to be some highs, there's going to be some lows. If you're somewhere in between, that's a beautiful place to be.
00;52;34;23 - 00;52;59;15
Dan Hall
Now then, we're coming towards the end of the recording. Now, Mark, and this is the point of which I like myself. And also the people listening to this to pay respects to somebody whom you care about, who you've lost. Would you like to share who that is and why you've chosen them?
00;52;59;17 - 00;53;36;17
Mark S King
I choose Antoine. Antoine was a lovely, lovely young black man who travelled so heroically through life. He was, gender fluid, outrageous or gold lamé. And, died of Aids only a few years ago, reminding us that, this crisis isn't over for a lot of people. Sometimes you get caught up in the system. Sometimes the system passes you by and you fall through the cracks.
00;53;36;17 - 00;54;10;23
Mark S King
And that's what happened to him. That's for me. HIV is not something for the history books. It's still happening in the here and now. And so I remember Antron.
00;54;10;26 - 00;54;34;05
Mark S King
Survivors like me were a little haunted. We're a little haunted, by those, memories and all of that. But, like, with most things, with life, the bad kind of falls away, and you're left with good things. You're left with the pride of what you did for your friends. You're left with, knowing that you did your best.
00;54;34;07 - 00;55;01;05
Mark S King
And we as a community have a lot to be proud of. I'm still here living a life. And and I live very much in the present. And yet, yes, this very defining decade or two decades happened to me and changed me forever. And and it didn't just happen to me. It happened to all of us. And our response to it was incredible.
00;55;01;06 - 00;55;41;11
Mark S King
It was beautiful. It was horrible. It it was all of those things, at a time when nobody gave a shit and every institution that we had counted on that we thought might be there, we found out they weren't. And we found out that we were the disease pariahs. And, and I'll tell you, for a privileged white, cis man like myself, a pretty boy to suddenly realise that I was the guy, I was the one that was being, you know, shamed and, othered and and, you know, it was a pretty big shock.
00;55;41;11 - 00;55;57;29
Mark S King
It was a real eye opener, you know, of course, through that process, I met trans women and black men and women who just all nodded their heads like, well, welcome. Welcome to the fight. Now that you realise what it's truly like.
00;55;58;01 - 00;56;36;26
Dan Hall
Now, normally this is the point at which I ask the guests to write the message on a postcard to the world and say to them, you know, what would that be? But, I haven't asked you to to to think about that and, pre-interview notes. I'm actually going to throw that out of the window. And I would like to know what the mark sitting on that porch with his wonderful husband, Michael, and a place of peace and happiness, would say to would say to that young strawberry blonde twink who's just arriving in West Hollywood.
00;56;36;28 - 00;57;00;27
Mark S King
Trust your instincts. It's going to be all right. This is a very scary ride. You're going to learn how to make it less scary for somebody else, and that is absolutely the greatest thing we can do in this life.
00;57;01;00 - 00;57;23;11
Dan Hall
Mark as King, essayist, writer, author, activist, all of the fantastic things. Thank you for the decades you done it all, telling the truth and making joy and fucking and all of it looked like the wonderfully radical act that it is. Thank you so much for coming on to the show.
00;57;23;18 - 00;57;36;21
Mark S King
You're so welcome. I appreciate you. So.
00;57;36;23 - 00;57;59;08
Dan Hall
If you were moved or informed by what you heard today, please help spread the word. Subscribe to HIV the morning after and leave a rating and a review. It makes a huge difference in helping others to find it. Your support helps to amplify these experiences. If you'd like to get in touch, you can email me at HIV the morning after at gmail.com.
00;57;59;10 - 00;58;17;07
Dan Hall
And remember, if you encounter HIV stigma and a bar, call it out. If you encounter it at work, call it out. If you encounter it online, call it out. Because if you don't, you're part of the problem.
00;58;17;09 - 00;58;33;10
Dan Hall
The theme tune is by Paul Leonidou at Unstoppablemonsters.com, and many thanks to Moray Laing for his continued support. And thank you for listening. Join me next time for another important conversation on HIV the morning after I've been Dan Hall.
