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The Strength You Don't See with Jason Rappoport
Episode 4 • 2nd May 2026 • DunnWise Perspectives • Doris Dunn
00:00:00 00:32:20

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What does it take to keep going when no one sees the battles you’re fighting?

In this conversation, Jason Rappoport shares the unseen side of resilience. From childhood bullying and addiction to loss, recovery, and a life-saving heart and kidney transplant, his story is raw, honest, and ultimately hopeful.

This episode is a reminder that strength is not always loud. The hardest fights are often the ones no one else can see.

In This Episode, We Discuss:

  • The hidden impact of bullying and early health challenges
  • Addiction, loss, and what “rock bottom” really feels like
  • The turning point that led to long-term sobriety
  • Redefining what it means to be “sober”
  • Why vulnerability and connection are essential to healing

Key Takeaways

  • You are not alone—even when it feels like you are
  • Rock bottom can be the beginning of real change
  • Lasting transformation starts from within
  • Vulnerability and humility are essential to growth
  • Connection and community can change everything

About Jason Rappoport

Jason Rappoport is a heart and kidney transplant survivor and a man in long-term recovery whose life has been shaped by resilience, loss, and transformation. With a 25-year career in high-performance sales and leadership, he understands what it means to operate under pressure, but his greatest lessons have come from the personal challenges he’s faced along the way.

Connect with Jason

Connect with Doris

Want to Be a Guest?

Have a story of resilience, reinvention, or overcoming a challenge?

I’d love to hear from you.

👉 Submit your story here: https://forms.gle/gJWpVcsZ5wTwfAgSA

Transcripts

Doris Dunn:

Hey Jason, how are you today?

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Jason Rappoport: I'm good, Doris.

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Thanks for asking.

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How are you?

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Doris Dunn: I am doing very well.

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I'm so excited to have

you on the podcast today.

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I know you and I met at a

networking event probably two

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years ago, something like that.

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And I know we've had the chance

to get to know each other.

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We've had coffee a few times.

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We've talked about our businesses,

but I think our best conversation

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was the one that we had a

couple of weeks ago where we.

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Started diving a little deeper into

our histories and where we came from,

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and I learned some things about you

that I did not know immediately thought

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you need to be a guest on my podcast.

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Your story is amazing.

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You have overcome some incredible

obstacles, and I just want.

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Our listeners to hear a little bit more

of your story, but let's just start

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at the, the higher level and share a

little bit about who you are, what you

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do, and then we'll go on from there.

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Jason Rappoport: Sounds great.

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Thank you and thanks for having me on.

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I.

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I was born and raised in

New Orleans, Louisiana, and,

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been in Nashville since 1996.

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Came here to study at Vanderbilt.

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got my master's degree there,

my MBA there, and I've been

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in business development slash

sales slash sales consulting

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for the better part of 30 years.

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Doris Dunn: Yeah, and I think that I

knew about you 'cause that's part, I

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think that's part of your elevator pitch.

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And so I knew

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Jason Rappoport: Right,

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Doris Dunn: about you from the, from

the early days of, of the networking

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events that we've or we've been to.

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But as I said, we, I learned

some new things about you.

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I, I knew about your, your heart.

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it

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Jason Rappoport: Right.

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Doris Dunn: that goes so far back.

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Can you share a little bit about your,

when you were born, what was discovered,

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what was wrong with your heart?

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What did the doctors learn, and how old

were you when the doctors discovered

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what was wrong with your heart?

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Jason Rappoport: When I was four months

old, the doctors discovered that I had

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a VSD ventricular septal defect, and a

coarctation or a narrowing of the aorta.

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both of which were serious and

which were impeding blood flow

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to the rest of the body, the way

that, that it should be flowing.

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so they corrected that, but they put a

note in the file that I didn't see until

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much later that said that at some point

further complications were going to t.

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Went through childhood, went

through teenage years, started

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college, everything was fine.

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And then, wound up getting a

bacterial infection when I was

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20 and had to have open heart

surgery to replace my aortic valve

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Doris Dunn: Wow.

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Jason Rappoport: and half of my aorta.

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Yeah, so.

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That lasted or that, that there

was a gap of about 18 years there.

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And when I was 38, I had to have

my mitral valve replaced because

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it had worn out its problem.

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four years later I had to

have a pacemaker put in.

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and then two years later I had to

have a defibrillator put in as well.

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So.

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I believe that's five heart surgeries.

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right around, right up to

the age of 40, thereabouts.

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40 or mid forties.

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so that, that is the heart history,

up until, December of 22, which

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is what you and I really started

talking about, which is where I

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started to get very sick in, 2021.

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Unable to go upstairs, conquer a

small hill, perform basic functions.

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And so I had a heart and

kidney kidneys gave out too.

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Heart and kidney transplant,

at the end of December of:

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which.

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They told me when I was 20, I'd

probably have to have one sooner or

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later, but we just didn't know when.

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Doris Dunn: Yeah,

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Jason Rappoport: And it's not something

you just pencil into your calendar.

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I mean, it's, you know, it's

obviously a, a very serious endeavor.

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Doris Dunn: exactly at the most

inopportune moment in our lives.

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Likely.

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Jason Rappoport: It does, it does.

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I was, I was only on the list

for six weeks, the waiting list.

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I was very fortunate.

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Doris Dunn: wow.

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How common is it that the heart and

the kidneys both fail at the same time?

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Jason Rappoport: well, my understanding

is that there are roughly:

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transplants in the United States per year.

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and 10% of those are dual transplants,

whether that's heart, kidney, heart,

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lung, whatever form those take.

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So the answer to your question is rare.

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Doris Dunn: Yeah.

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Jason Rappoport: Very rare.

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Yeah.

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Mm-hmm.

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Doris Dunn: But you're doing

really, really well right now.

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I know you shared before we hit

record, that you're headed to the

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gym as soon as we're done here.

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So it was a very successful

surgery and health-wise, you're

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doing extremely well today.

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Jason Rappoport: I am, I will say

that another part of what we talked

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about was after the transplants, the

transplants went off without a hitch.

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during recovery in the hospital, I,

wound up contracting pancreatitis,

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acute pancreatitis, and for those

that are not familiar with it.

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Pancreatitis is the medical equivalent

of your body staging a major rebellion.

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it is when the enzymes

that digest your food start

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digesting your pancreas instead.

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So, for six months, the pain was constant.

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It was excruciating.

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I developed, Sepsis, brain swelling.

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had a tracheotomy, lost 50

pounds, had a feeding tube.

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they didn't think I was gonna make it, but

miraculously I did and was released from

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the hospital about seven months later.

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So almost nine months in the hospital.

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Continuously there for, for a bit.

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Doris Dunn: That is such a crazy

story and that is only the tip

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of the iceberg of your story.

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'cause I wanna go all the way back

to your childhood and talk about

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the bullying that you suffered.

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Jason Rappoport: Sure.

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Doris Dunn: that was related possibly

to your health, the health challenges

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that you had, tell me about the bullying

that you went through and how long

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did that last and how serious was it?

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Jason Rappoport: I went to a very

small private school in New Orleans

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and was with the same children,

for, all 13 years, K through 12.

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The bullying really started.

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In middle school, on the school

bus that I rode, there were three

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siblings, a sister and two brothers.

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And the brothers were the middle

and the youngest children.

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And they were the ones that really

began tormenting me, hardcore.

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One of them knew.

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self-defense and would use it against me.

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I was smaller, partially

due to the heart situation.

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It did stunt my growth some.

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And I have never been a mean person.

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I've never really been a fighter.

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And my mother always said she wishes

that I had a little more of that in me.

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I used to come home bruised.

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Battered in tears from rides

on the school bus, and then it

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continued in school as well.

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So it was not, not a good period

that, that sixth through eighth

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grade the sixth grade grade years.

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Doris Dunn: Did the teachers or

the, your parents or their parents,

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did anyone do anything about it?

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How did you survive that?

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Jason Rappoport: So my.

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Parents did wind up speaking

to the brother's parents.

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And it did subside for a while, but

then towards the end of my eighth

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grade year it picked up again.

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So how did I survive it?

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I just told myself that it

wasn't gonna last forever.

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And a couple times I fought

back and they left me alone.

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And other times I fought back

and they didn't leave me alone.

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the worst memory that I have

is my father actually got on

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the bus one day to scare them.

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To scare them and to

not bullying me anymore.

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and they didn't.

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The rest of that year, a good six or

eight months, they didn't do that.

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But then the last day of school one of

the brothers and about 10 other people

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on the bus got on top of me and crushed

me into the seat where I was sitting.

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And the bus driver could

have stopped the bus.

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He could have told them to stop.

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None of that happened.

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I don't think that would

happen in this world today.

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Bullying is so guarded against.

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In this environment

today, in this generation.

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But back then it just wasn't the same.

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So,

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Doris Dunn: Yeah

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Jason Rappoport: it ended

when they got off the bus,

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Doris Dunn: I'm so sorry.

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If you could talk to your younger

self or even your younger selves,

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parents or teachers, but primarily

yourself, what would you tell yourself?

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So I'm sure we have listeners

whose children are being bullied or

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maybe they were bullied themselves.

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What would you tell them to

overcome that or to help themselves?

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Jason Rappoport: Well, what I would've

done and should have done, and what I

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would tell children they're being bullied

to do, is to communicate the seriousness

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of the bullying to your parents and to the

people at school that you respect in your

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life and you know that care about you.

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And don't give up.

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If they don't listen the first time, keep

saying it and keep being loud about it.

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and for the parents, I would say if your

child is in an unsafe environment where

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he or she is subject to bullying at a

serious level, especially with social

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media and everything else going on these

days, remove them from that environment.

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If that means driving them to school

instead of being on the bus that

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means escorting them into school.

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Whatever you need to do to

protect your child, listen.

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Doris Dunn: Yeah,

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Jason Rappoport: Listen.

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Doris Dunn: Do you feel like

that you had all the support from

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your parents that you needed?

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Jason Rappoport: I do not I feel like

my father as, as loving as a person

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as he was, was at work all the time,

day and night, was not as involved

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with my day to day as my mother was.

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And I do remember.

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Asking to be taken off the bus.

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I do remember asking to transfer schools.

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But, but none of that happened and

I think she wishes now that she had,

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Doris Dunn: Yeah.

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Jason Rappoport: yeah.

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Doris Dunn: Oh, I'm so sorry

you had to go through that.

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I can't imagine.

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can't even imagine.

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But I know that your challenges

didn't stop in eighth grade as

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you shared with me tell me about

your father and later in life.

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His challenges kind of impacted you and

what did you do in your twenties that

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I know you regret today you shared that

with me over coffee a few weeks ago.

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Share that story, and I think you were

in college at the time and some important

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things happen later in your twenties.

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Jason Rappoport: Yes.

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So to walk it back a little

bit, my father was my touchdown.

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He was my idol from a very young age.

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But as I got older, I started to

notice that he drank quite a bit.

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But he was very functional drinker

and and he gave me my first

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sip of alcohol when I was 11.

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And, a light went off and

I realized that I liked it.

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And growing up in New Orleans, you

get your driver's license at 15, you

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get your fake ID two weeks later and

you start drinking in high school.

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And that was the social scene

and I believe it still is.

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And, he started to drink heavier.

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I started to drink heavier when I

was in high school and we used to

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commiserate and talk about that, and

eventually we wound up drinking together

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when I was in my early twenties.

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So unfortunately we became more

friends and we became father and son.

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But I think the culminating event was that

my father got really, really sick in the.

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Summer of 97, and I got a call from my

mother and said he was in the hospital.

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And she didn't say much else.

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So I got home and, and he was in

an alcoholic coma in the hospital.

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His, and he had cirrhosis and liver

cancer at that point, and he hadn't really

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told anybody that that was developing.

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My parents were divorced.

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It was an ugly divorce.

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He didn't communicate

with anybody, et cetera.

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And anyway.

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It was a Friday when I got home

and he didn't look great, but

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I thought he might make it.

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So I went home that night

at my grandmother's house,

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slept, went back the next day.

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The next day he looked a lot worse.

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He was yellow and distended

and thin and hardly breathing.

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And and I decided that I was gonna spend

the night with him in the hospital room.

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So I fall asleep at about three o'clock

in the morning and I woke up at about five

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minutes to six on Sunday morning, and I

walked over to the side of his bed and

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I put my hand on his hand, and about 10

seconds later, he took his last breath.

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So to this day, I am eternally grateful

that I was there at the exact moment

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Doris Dunn: Yeah.

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Jason Rappoport: that he passed.

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And that moment for me

was an awakening and.

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Two months later, I came back

to Nashville, or I came back to

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Nashville, and then two months

later got sober and I've been in

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recovery for close to 30 years now.

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Doris Dunn: That is amazing.

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I'm always so incredibly.

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Amazed by the stories of, of those

that have gone through that and that

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are so faithful to their sobriety.

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And those stories are amazing.

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And I've heard other stories where

it's, talked about this, the bottom

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of the barrel that, that I've, I've

talked to other alcoholics that.

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They have to go to that bottom of the

barrel a number of times that they

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haven't hit or not, not the bottom of

the barrel, I'm sorry, the rock bottom.

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And they have to hit rock bottom.

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And when they think they hit rock

bottom, they go into recovery.

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But it wasn't the actual

rock bottom for them.

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And, and I know everyone's

rock bottom is different.

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And can you share about

what, us a little bit more.

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So someone that doesn't know what rock

bottom is or has never heard that term,

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does that mean and how did it impact you?

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And I know some of that had to do with

your father, but what inside of your own.

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Your own mind, your own body.

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what made you realize this

is not the life for me?

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I've, I've gotta stop and I know you

were doing more than alcohol too, and

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you shared an incredible story, I think

that you were in your apartment and share

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that, if you don't mind, share that story.

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Jason Rappoport: So rock bottom for me for

and a lot of other colleagues that I, that

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I've been friends with for a long time.

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Excuse me, from a mental

perspective you hate yourself.

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You hate yourself.

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You don't think you're worthy

of anything good of anybody.

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Good.

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And that is the disease.

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That is the disease

that tries to kill you.

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It's a mind power disease.

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Bottom for me, and I think this is

what you're referring to, is I was

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living in an apartment in the fall of

:

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block walls, with spaces in between

them with the cold air rushing in.

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I had a marijuana bong in my right

hand and a three bottle of red wine in

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my left hand and a plate with a straw

and a razor plate underneath my couch

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for when I could find some cocaine.

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And and that's where I was

living the day I got sober.

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Doris Dunn: I know you shared that

story with me a few weeks ago, and

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I don't think I'll stop getting

chills when I hear that story.

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I can't, I can't put myself there, but.

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If you could put our,

put our listeners there.

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What was, what was happening in your mind?

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What made you feel like you needed

these three things in front of

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you, and then suddenly, almost

instantaneously realizing I've gotta

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stop all of this instantly at once.

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you did.

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And then who helped you with that?

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Jason Rappoport: Sure.

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So

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I think for me.

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Just going back to the

feeling of being unworthy.

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Low self-esteem, no self-esteem

related to the bullying, related to

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not having a lot of friends throughout.

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Middle school and high school.

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not being one of the popular kids,

you know, did, did theater, did

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band, did gymnastics, didn't play

football, baseball, basketball.

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A lot of feelings associated with

doing the wrong things the unpopular

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things while I was growing up.

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Strained relationships within my

family, especially with my mother.

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You know, in my head sitting there in

that apartment, the main thought that a

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lot of addicts and alcoholics have is.

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Nobody would understand if I

said what I'm thinking out loud.

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People would think I was

insane who helped me.

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First meeting I ever

went to, I didn't talk.

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I just listened 'cause

I had nothing to offer.

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I heard words like serenity and peace and

character and self-esteem and friendship.

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But then there were some stories

that were worse than mine.

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And I thought finally I realized that I

wasn't alone, that there were people who

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understood where I was coming from and

that there was a solution to the problem.

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Doris Dunn: Yeah, and I know you

faithfully go to these meetings.

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Every week.

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Jason Rappoport: Mm-hmm.

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Doris Dunn: so important?

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Why can't you go to a meeting, get

better, and then you're, you're

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good for, for the rest of your life?

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I know it doesn't work

that way, but why do

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Jason Rappoport: Right.

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Doris Dunn: that constant

support even 30 years later?

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Why is that so important?

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Jason Rappoport: One of the big

sort of sayings in AA is that we

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don't have a drinking disease.

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We have a forgetting disease, and the ego

and self-centeredness of the alcoholic by

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their very nature, a lot of people that

relapse, they, they get sober and they're

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sober a long time, and then they stop.

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The spiritual aspect of their program.

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They stop prayer, they stop talking

to other people, they stop going

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meetings, and they relapse because

they lose that connection, that human

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connection and that spiritual connection.

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For me, meetings are the meetings and

sponsorship, but meetings, you know,

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I go to a meeting every Saturday where

there are 50 men in a room and there

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are hundreds of years of sobriety.

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And if you go in having a bad day,

it's a reminder that, you know what?

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This stuff works.

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The other side of it is it's

not just about you, it's

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about helping other people.

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Doris Dunn: Mm-hmm.

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Jason Rappoport: 'cause there

was somebody in that room last

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week that was three days sober.

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They need to hear from me

and others that it works.

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Doris Dunn: how.

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Do you handle a room full of alcohol?

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I, I know that all these networking

events that you and I go together,

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they're quite often in bars.

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They're in areas that have

alcohol, and the guy next to

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you has got a, a gin and tonic.

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The lady across the halls

got a, a glass of wine.

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How do you manage being around that?

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Jason Rappoport: So in the literature of,

of aa, the, the book, there's part of the

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book that says that if we're spiritually

fit, we can go anywhere and do anything.

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So I, I pray every day.

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I talk to my sponsor every week.

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I go to meetings every week.

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That's how I maintain my spiritual

condition, my spiritual health.

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And the other thing I would say

is that when I went to that first

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meeting, people talk about this,

but people don't believe it.

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The desire to use was removed from me.

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I mean, that is part of

the miracle of the program.

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Yes, yes.

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my wife has a Jack and Coke every

night, like you said, we go everywhere.

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People drink.

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I, I don't need it.

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I don't want it.

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The other thing is a healthy

fear in the back of my head.

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You know, if I do, you know, I'll

be dancing in the middle of the room

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naked with a lampshade on my head.

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I mean it's, you know, something

like that's gonna happen.

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And you know, it won't just be alcohol

either, but I'll regress back into

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other substances that I use as well.

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And with my health the

way it is, it'll kill me.

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Doris Dunn: Yeah.

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I know people that are.

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:

Recovering smokers, they gave up smoking

and every time they smell a cigarette,

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they, they want a cigarette again.

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:

and it's an addiction.

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But how would you say that mentally you

were able to say, I don't need it anymore?

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I, I, I feel like there's a difference

between forcing yourself not to do it

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:

because you know it's unhealthy versus

truly not having the desire anymore.

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talk about that difference and you were

able to get to the place where you no

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:

longer desire it and are all alcoholics

like that do some of them desire it and

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have to force themselves not to do it?

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Jason Rappoport: Well,

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:

it's interesting, when I first got

sober, my sponsor asked me to look

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up the definition of the word sober.

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And sober doesn't mean not drinking.

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Sober actually means

being free from fantasy,

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Doris Dunn: Okay, free from fantasy.

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Sober is

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Jason Rappoport: free from fantasy.

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:

That's right, that's what

it says in the dictionary.

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:

The dictionary.

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I looked up the word in and

I'm not a religious person.

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:

I'm a spiritual person and I

continue to pray for the desire

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:

to drink, to be removed from me.

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And it is a kind of vigilance

and a kind of surrender that

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:

I used to be a smoker too.

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:

And three packs a day in college.

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And I got married for the first time.

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That's what helped me stop smoking,

but don't have the desire to do it now.

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:

And it really was the same way I, I

kept asking my higher power, which

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:

I call God to remove the desire

to smoke, drink, do drugs from me.

413

:

And that's, that's the difference.

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I think that smokers,

anybody can white knuckle it,

415

:

Doris Dunn: Yeah.

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:

Jason Rappoport: you know, but if you

don't, if you don't turn it over for

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:

me, it would would've never taken.

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:

Yeah.

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:

Doris Dunn: And, and

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Jason Rappoport: Yeah.

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:

Mm-hmm.

422

:

Doris Dunn: understand the true meaning

of the word sober, you're able to give it.

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:

And move in a new direction and

then get those, those coins.

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:

I think you get coins when

425

:

Jason Rappoport: You do.

426

:

Mm-hmm.

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Doris Dunn: Is that right?

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:

Jason Rappoport: You do well,

you get 'em for 30 days, 60

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:

days, 90 days, and six months.

430

:

And then you start getting them for years.

431

:

And you know, if it's all

about the medallions, it's

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:

really not the right approach.

433

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Doris Dunn: No.

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:

Jason Rappoport: The medallions are, are,

I call 'em sobriety checkpoints, right?

435

:

They're markers in the, in

the way of, along the path.

436

:

But it, it does feel good to get them

because you know that, that hopefully

437

:

you've helped some other people along

the way and you have not been a burden

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:

or a menace to anybody in your life.

439

:

Doris Dunn: So talk about your life today.

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:

I know you're, you're happily married.

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:

you're physically, you're doing really

well, you're working out career-wise.

442

:

You're doing really well.

443

:

Share about your life today and

what you learned from all of the

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:

challenges that you faced that

helped you have a successful life.

445

:

Jason Rappoport: Well, I think the first

thing that I, that I would say to that is,

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:

is that in spite of all of the comradery

in alcohol synonymous, in spite of your

447

:

marriage, in spite of your friends, I

mean, there has to be an inner belief.

448

:

You have to take full

responsibility for your life.

449

:

It is much harder than people think.

450

:

I think a lot of people would be afraid

to admit that, but for me, I didn't

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:

start taking responsibility for myself

until I was 27, 28 years old once I

452

:

got rid of all the drugs and alcohol.

453

:

I think for me, part of my

disease, part of my issue growing

454

:

up was that I used to see myself.

455

:

As I saw me in my head and my brain, my

filter, my self perception was broken.

456

:

So I needed to tell myself to see

myself as my higher powers saw me,

457

:

and maybe as people who respected

me, how those people see me,

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:

Doris Dunn: I love that.

459

:

Jason Rappoport: and,

460

:

Doris Dunn: How,

461

:

Jason Rappoport: yeah.

462

:

Yeah.

463

:

Doris Dunn: help our listeners do that.

464

:

What would you say?

465

:

What advice could you give to our

listeners to try to flip that switch

466

:

from seeing yourself, like you

said, as you see through your own

467

:

eyes, versus seeing yourself through

others' eyes and God's eyes, and your

468

:

mentors, the people that respect you.

469

:

How do you move from that one

vision to the other vision?

470

:

Jason Rappoport: For me, the path to

that was humility because I think I

471

:

mentioned before the biggest trait of any

alcoholic addict is self-centeredness.

472

:

And ego.

473

:

But the irony is, is that we

don't have any ego because we

474

:

don't like ourselves, right?

475

:

And if we don't like ourselves,

we don't know what's good for us.

476

:

But the people that respect us

and that love us, a lot of times

477

:

they do know what's good for us.

478

:

So I would say self-reliance

can be a dangerous strategy.

479

:

And sometimes you have to let

down your guard and rely on

480

:

other people to lift you up.

481

:

Doris Dunn: You've gotta be vulnerable.

482

:

That's one of my favorite

words, is being vulnerable.

483

:

And I know Brene Brown talks about

it all the time, that how important

484

:

vulnerability is and that you can

grow from a place of vulnerability.

485

:

And I mean, even this podcast, that's what

this is all about, is allowing people to

486

:

be vulnerable and allowing the stories.

487

:

To help other people realize

that can see themselves in these

488

:

stories and that they're not alone.

489

:

And I think there's a big part of this

podcast is what you talk about at the

490

:

AA meetings that we're, we're not alone.

491

:

No one needs to suffer by themselves.

492

:

No one needs to view themselves

the way they view themselves.

493

:

We are a giant community called

human beings, and we need to be

494

:

better about helping each other.

495

:

And being a part of whatever community.

496

:

Obviously we can't be the, the billions

of, of humans, but being part of the

497

:

various communities, whether it's aa,

whether it's a networking group that we

498

:

go to, and we really bond with people

at some of these networking events that

499

:

we go to, or our church, our families,

our neighborhoods, so important that

500

:

we are able to rely on each other.

501

:

And I think, yeah, vulnerability,

humility, those are two

502

:

really important words.

503

:

Jason Rappoport: I agree.

504

:

I agree.

505

:

I think the most important thing in

this world is to know that you are not

506

:

alone in your life or in your thoughts.

507

:

Doris Dunn: Yes,

508

:

Jason Rappoport: Yeah.

509

:

Doris Dunn: do you have any parting words

for, for me or for our listeners that you

510

:

wanna share or maybe questions I didn't

ask that you really wanted to answer?

511

:

Jason Rappoport: I don't think so.

512

:

I think the main thing that I would

like to say is fear is a corrosive

513

:

force and, you do not have

to be afraid by yourself.

514

:

People looking from the outside

in are always able to help you.

515

:

And like you just said, you have

to be willing to be vulnerable.

516

:

That is how you flip that

switch, as you mentioned before.

517

:

And, you know, men in this country

to this day, in spite of all the, the

518

:

metrosexual, you know, things that,

that are out and about these days, a

519

:

lot of men, a lot of American men just

don't like being vulnerable like that.

520

:

And it's, it's their

downfall a lot of times.

521

:

And if, if people would soften up

a little bit and be a little more

522

:

empathetic it's self empathetic,

I think, I think we'd be happier.

523

:

Doris Dunn: Yes, I, I agree.

524

:

I was, I was just listening to a story

that, that things apparently changed.

525

:

With the, male female connection back in

the 18 hundreds and that men were a lot

526

:

closer and I don't remember, it was Freud.

527

:

There was someone that tried to

put a name on it and basically.

528

:

Men moved from the, a place of

vulnerability to being these stoic figures

529

:

that could never cry, could never feel

anything, and in over a hundred years

530

:

we've never been able to turn that around.

531

:

I think it's starting to, I do, I'm

starting to see more vulnerability in men

532

:

I used to, which is really refreshing,

and I hope that we continue down that

533

:

path and, and maybe get rid of these

labels that Freud or whoever it was.

534

:

Put on men and that we are able to,

to share more and, and be more human

535

:

the way that you were meant to be.

536

:

Jason Rappoport: I think Freud and

Nietzche and, and Machiavelli and all

537

:

those guys, very antiquated ways of

thinking and, and confining as well.

538

:

Doris Dunn: Agreed.

539

:

Agreed.

540

:

Well,

541

:

Jason Rappoport: Yeah.

542

:

Doris Dunn: thank you so much for

spending some time with me today.

543

:

Thank you for being and sharing

your story, and I am sure that a

544

:

lot of our listeners will get a lot

out of this story and they will.

545

:

See themselves in this story.

546

:

And thank you.

547

:

Jason Rappoport: Having me, it's been

a great, a great time and, and I'm,

548

:

I'm honored that you would have me on.

549

:

Doris Dunn: Oh, it's my honor.

550

:

Thank you so much.

551

:

Thank you for listening

or watching this episode.

552

:

If something from today's conversation

resonated with you, I'd love for you

553

:

to share this episode with someone

who might need it or take a moment

554

:

to reflect on what stood out for you.

555

:

You can find show notes wherever

you get your podcasts, and if you

556

:

enjoy the podcast, subscribing

or leaving a review helps more

557

:

people find these conversations.

558

:

Until next time, keep learning.

559

:

Stay curious and remember,

sometimes a small shift in

560

:

perspective can change everything.

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