What if the thing that makes you feel like an outsider is actually your greatest business asset?

Danielle Anderson figured that out after 15 years as a paralegal.

She didn’t have an English degree. She’d never worked at a big New York publishing house. She wasn’t an agent with industry connections. But she had something else: a way of combining structure with soul that authors desperately needed.

In this conversation, Danielle, founder of Ink Worthy Books and creator of the Soulful Nonfiction framework, talks about building a business that honors both the creative process and the human being behind the book.

Highlights

Law school taught her how stories work.

Before Danielle was helping authors craft their books, she was crafting legal arguments.

The skills translated perfectly: the research, the structure, and building a case that moves people from point A to point B. The only difference was the outcome she was fighting for.

“What drew me to law wasn’t just the structure — it was the writing.”

That legal background didn’t disappear when she pivoted. It became the foundation for how she helps authors organize their ideas, strengthen their arguments, and build books that actually work.

She said yes before she knew how.

Danielle’s first real publishing client was a yoga instructor writing about recovering from an eating disorder.

Did Danielle know exactly how to guide someone through that process? Not really. But she knew something more important: how to show up with care and figure it out together.

“If you have a strong enough connection with somebody, you trust them enough to do things because you know they’re going to work as hard as they can to make something happen.”

That willingness to lean into connection over credentials became her business model. And it works because authors need someone who believes in their story as much as they need expertise.

Soulful nonfiction is structure with heart.

Danielle coined the term “soulful nonfiction” for a reason.

Too many business books feel soulless. Too many personal development books lack structure. She helps authors find the sweet spot between both.

“It’s really bringing like that structure in with the creativity and the flow and allowing for that to be really supportive.”

Her authors don’t have to choose between being vulnerable and being clear. They get to be both.

She builds business around real life.

Danielle is refreshingly honest about the gap between business advice and actual life.

Most entrepreneurship content assumes you have unlimited time, energy, and resources. Danielle had to build differently.

“I got four kids. I’ve got a mortgage payment. Like I got to do this my way.”

That constraint helped her relate with clients who also have real lives, real responsibilities, and real limits on their time. She gets it in a way that matters.

Free calls build the right relationships.

While other coaches are optimizing funnels, Danielle is offering free Zoom calls.

It sounds counterintuitive. But it works because book coaching is deeply personal work. People need to feel the fit before they commit.

“I think there is so much value in truly leading with your heart and like truly leading with such an openness and an authentic energy.”

Those calls help her convert the right clients. The ones who are ready to do the work and trust the process.

Your weird path is your competitive advantage.

Danielle’s unconventional background could have been a liability.

Instead, it became exactly what set her apart. She brings legal thinking to creative work. She combines structure with intuition. She understands both the business side and the human side of publishing.

“There’s absolute value in going out there and if you don’t know what you’re doing, finding a guide or a mentor or someone to help you find your way. But I always reserve a little bit of discernment to say, does this feel right for me?”

That discernment of knowing when to follow advice and when to trust your gut is what turns an unconventional path into an unbeatable advantage.

Closing Reflection

Danielle Anderson is proof that you don’t need the “right” background to build something meaningful.

You need the willingness to show up authentically, the courage to combine your unique skills in new ways, and the patience to build relationships that matter.

Bonus Challenge from Danielle:

Write a post sharing why you do what you do and a specific moment when things shifted for you. Make it vulnerable. Don’t worry about grammar or typos. “I want you to tap into the fact that this is probably going to feel a little vulnerable. I really want you to allow space for that.”

I believe that we stand on crossroads and we have decisions to make.

And really no decision is less valuable than the other.

You can't say you can't make a wrong decision unless you choose not to act at all.

I think that's where we, you know, where we really do ourselves wrong, because sometimes we don't know for sure.

And so if you're not getting that huge intuitive yes, you just got to start moving.

And then eventually you're going to receive data, you're going to receive insights, you're going to receive lived experience is going to teach you whether that feels like a smooth path or whether you have to pivot.

Right.

And I think in entrepreneurship, pivoting is like, have to learn to be flexible and adaptable.

And pivoting is like second nature.

You have to learn to allow that to be second nature to your instincts and to say, like, okay, where do I need to step next in order for me to continue on this path?

So, yeah, it's just, it's a beautiful dance.

Such a beautiful experiment.

It's.

I just think, I just look at it like, practice every day.

Welcome to the Standout Creatives, where making money and creating meaningful work go hand in hand.

You're already passionate about what you create.

Now let's turn that passion into a standout business.

Marketing your work doesn't have to be overwhelming.

It can actually amplify your creativity.

I'm your guide, Kevin Chung, and this podcast is your roadmap to creative business success.

I'll show you how to turn your unique talents into a business that truly represents who you are.

Let's get started.

Hey, welcome to another episode of Standout Creatives.

And today I'm on Danielle Anderson of Ink Worthy Books.

Danielle, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and some of the work you do?

Yeah.

Hey, Kevin, thanks so much for having me.

I am Danielle Anderson, and as Kevin said, I'm with Inkworthy Books.

I am the owner and creator of this self publishing services provider company.

What that means is that we support, what I like to say, soulful creatives walking through the process of crafting their nonfiction books through the self publishing world.

So I consider it soulful if it's a memoir, self help, personal development, that type of book.

And my.

My heart is.

My heart and soul is spent in helping people write and craft the book.

And then we have a team of awesome contractors and creatives that come in and help finish the project.

Awesome.

What got you into books and writing or the book process in general?

Yeah, love that question.

So I was actually a paralegal for 15 years, and my sights were set on lawyerhood.

I was gonna go to law school, and actually I was aiming for the bench.

I wanted to be a judge.

But what I found was that through school and getting my bachelor degree in paralegal studies and then working in a really small law firm that had me doing a lot of brief research and writing is.

I was really called to the writing process and I was really called to the idea of gathering information and creating this, like, cohesive, clear, persuasive argument.

And as life would have it, I had a couple babies and bills went up and I started freelancing.

I was a gig worker before.

That was cool.

So I would freelance, you know, before the kids got up on my way to work on the bus, you know, on my lunch break after bedtime, that type of thing, and just dabbling in, kind of bringing in extra income, and stumbled my way into the world of books through one of my clients, who was a real estate broker who wanted someone to just edit her.

Her reports.

And she referred me to her yoga instructor who was writing a book about how she beat an eating disorder.

And I was just like, sign me up.

This sounds amazing.

I had no idea what I was doing.

I did, but I didn't, you know, there was no.

I didn't have a formal process or a formal training at that point.

And she just trusted me and we jumped into the deep end together.

I probably made like a dollar an hour.

It was ridiculous.

I had no clue how to charge it out.

But we made magic, and it was just such a fulfilling and, like I said, magical process.

Like, I just.

I don't know how else to describe it, but, I mean, we're still friends to this day.

Her book went on to, you know, touch the lives of other people.

And there's just something about that ripple effect that grabbed ahold of me.

So I started focusing a bit more of my side gig energy and work on books and just jumped into doing like, copy edits, like Basic Grammar, and started doing more and more complex things.

I was a newly single mom of four and wanted to be home with my kids a little bit more.

I wanted to have my business support my life as a mother, because I was commuting to.

I'm near Minneapolis, and so I was commuting to Minneapolis.

I was spending probably upwards of two to three hours on the road every day.

And those were hours I could have been spending with my children.

And so I decided to quit right before the pandemic, which was, you know, divine timing.

I believe in divine timing.

So thank you, universe, for nudging me out the door a little bit earlier than I thought I was going to.

And basically what that means is that I found a training program that validated a lot of the work I had already been doing and gave me a framework to be able to better support my clients and help me figure out that I could actually create an entire business around the skills that I already had and the passion that I have for books.

So Inkworthy Books is born after that to be a full time service provider.

So that's been.

That's a nutshell version of my journey.

Wow.

Yeah.

I.

A lot of people that I talk to have stumbled their way into the thing that they're doing.

They always have intentions that start off in another sphere and they.

They quickly figure out they're just life happening, that you never really decide for yourself when you're gonna make a choice.

It just happens.

And you.

You deal with what comes at you versus always having an intention.

Some people actually start off with a dream and they try to go for it and then they pause and then they come back to it later, which is also something that happens a lot.

I do, I go into this thing.

I didn't really like it the way I thought I would, so I went back to the thing I wanted to do originally.

What, what drew you to being a judge?

And do you see any parallels between the world of law and the world of what you're trying to do with books now?

Yeah.

Wow.

Cool.

I've never been asked that question, but what an insightful question.

And what came to me right away is both areas, although, like, on the surface, are so different.

I was drawn to both because I wanted to make a change and I wanted to make this world a better place.

I really wanted to become a judge because I thought there are some things about our judicial system or there are some things that I'm seeing that I think we could do better and we could support people better with.

So I really wanted to be able to make that change and I wanted to be in the position to be able to do that.

And as I, like you said, Kevin, like, I stumbled into this and discovered, I mean, if you would have asked me in my early years if this was where I saw myself at 41, there's no way I would have told you that.

But that's really what I love about books, they are so impactful, they can change lives.

They really can.

I've had many books change my life, so I think I.

The thing I love most about this work is that it really is this like ripple effect.

It really does like move through the world and have this beautiful impact on the people who are, you know, blessed to be in the, in the ripple range, if you will.

So I think both of them have that parallel.

That's, that's great.

I think it's very important to know why you're doing certain things.

So you could have just gone into books to make money.

But I think having the intention of creating an impact allows you to work with people better because there's like a purpose behind what you're both doing.

You're both trying to get the message out there for a certain purpose.

Versus oh, how do I make the most money from somebody trying to write books?

It's not really an endeavor that I would say would make you a lot of money unless you're, you know, working with really high.

Not on the surface.

Yeah, I mean, I think underneath it all, like money.

Money of course is important.

I have a family to support and like I need to create a livable income.

And that's why I, I didn't realize that this could be a full time business.

I thought this was just a little gig, like I was gonna just do an edit here and there until I figured out what I would do full time.

Right.

And so understanding that I could take something that I'm so passionate about, that I love, that I think is just so powerful and create a full time income.

That's just been such a game changer for me.

Yeah.

I think it's so important to know that there is an audience for you in almost any endeavor that you take as long as you're good enough at what you're trying to do.

And it's just about finding those people.

So a lot of people will think, oh, there's no money to be made in whatever it is.

But if you find enough passionate people in any given area and they're willing to pay you for it, you can make a living doing really anything.

There's people doing all kinds of crazy things out of what they do.

And all the only thing they did was to find the people who are interested enough in it.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

So well said.

What are some of the lessons that you learned while working or doing law or any of the law focused things that you have brought into your work through inkworthy books?

Yeah.

Another great Question.

Thank you.

It took me quite a while, and I'll be honest with you, I jumped into this world.

I don't have an English degree.

I don't have a degree in creative writing.

I do not come from the publishing world.

I was never some agent in some big New York firm or whatever.

And so there was a lot of insecurity that I really had to fight through to get to a place where I could truly own my skills.

These are just things that I either innately understand about books or have been like.

I was born with just a really great.

A really great brain that understands language.

I was also nurtured in that way.

My mom just is.

You know, she has piles of dictionaries.

That's like, her thing.

She, like, collects dictionaries.

So I was born into a.

Into a home that valued language, right?

And.

But I don't have formal training.

I don't have papers that say, oh, I'm good at this.

Come hang out with me.

Right?

And so it actually took me quite a while to get to this point where I understood that I actually have a bachelor degree in paralegal studies.

I have an associate's and a bachelor degree in paralegal studies because I wanted to go to law school and I needed an undergrad.

And so I spent those four years focused on research and reading and writing and pulling together specific facts to make specific arguments for the position that I was finding myself on in any given situation, right?

So in the legal field, we have a plaintiff and a defendant or a petitioner and a respondent in a civil case.

And so there's these two sides, and hypothetically, there's two arguments that people are making on the opposite end of the table.

And like, in a very broad, grand sense, what your job is to do in a legal brief, which is basically just a written document that you submit to the court to say, hey, this is where I stand.

I need you to believe me.

Like, I need you to side with me.

Me, right?

So you are taking the available information, facts and conjecture and all the things, theory, and pulling together a cohesive, organized, and persuasive argument.

And you are trying to say, this is why you should listen to me.

Here's my facts, here's my background, here's my authority, here's what I know, right?

Here's my witnesses, etc.

The other side is doing the same darn thing.

Now, in the world of books, what I came to realize is that we pretty much do the same thing.

The most powerful thing that you can do with A book is find your position.

What is this about?

What is, like, what is an argument you can make, for example, and it's going to sound cliche because that's where we start with books, is beauty is on the inside.

Someone could argue against me, right?

Someone could be like, no, no, no, I think that's stupid.

I think beauty's on the outside, right?

And we could sit across the table and we could have a debate, and I could bring my.

And my evidence, and I can lay them out in a very organized and cohesive and persuasive way and hope that my readers go, you know what, you're on to something, right?

And so it's pretty much on the surface, or I guess when you dig underneath the surface a little bit, the same thing.

And I had to get to a point where I understood that I was already trained for this.

That's how I know what to do.

Like, I just kind of understood that books are just one big argument that you're just pulling together and organizing.

Even when you're writing a story, right?

You have to pull together the information and the moments and the emotions that help deliver your value.

And your value is typically with a story, this is possible.

For example, I might be able to tell you a story about a woman who got pregnant at 17 and went on and actually, like, completed high school, completed college, and started her own business and went on to be a successful publisher.

You know, that could be a story I could tell you, right?

And so my message to you, my argument would, might be like, it's possible, right?

It's possible to do this.

You can work through hard things or you can achieve your dreams or whatever other cliche and cheesy thing you want to say about a story like that.

It's possible.

So there's beautiful parallels in that space.

And I got.

I had to get myself to a point where I was like, it's okay that I don't have an English degree.

And by the way, it's okay that I didn't publish my own book and then from there decide to teach people how to do this.

I had to get over that, too, because I started this business without having walked through that process on my own.

What my skills are, I'm much more skilled.

My.

My skills position me better to be a guide and a teacher rather than, like, the person who goes forward to do the thing and then turn around and tell you how I did it.

Right?

Does that make sense?

So I'm really positioned.

Well, the way that I'm designed, the way That I see the world to actually meet people where they're at and help them do this their way.

So I really thrive in the self publishing world, which is probably a good thing.

I didn't come up in the traditional publishing world where there's a lot of rules that I don't probably agree with.

Yeah.

I love that you have figured this out over time, that you can take any skills in whatever part of life that you've already gone through and apply them to anything else that you want to do.

So just because you didn't write a book yourself doesn't mean that you can't help people write their own books.

It's just, what do I know what to do and how can that help people in their own pursuits?

So instead of this is how you write prose, it's here's how you make an argument to make your book, you know, stand out more or more persuasive or, you know, something that people want to read.

Because it's the same thing.

You're just making, like you said, an argument for a cause.

Right.

And that causes could be any number of different things.

If you're writing nonfiction, fiction is obviously a little bit different.

But even in those types of stories, you're still trying to pitch like this idea of transformation or something, why is this story being told?

You still need to make some sort of argument as to why somebody wrote it.

Right, Exactly.

Fiction is not my forte.

For some reason, my brain does not operate in that way.

I'm always amazed at people who can write novels and like create worlds and just like, how does your brain do that?

But it is essentially the same kind of general process.

You do have to come up with a message, some.

Some thing you want to portray to the readers.

Right.

And so it's not simply just for entertainment.

There's absolute entertainment value in fiction.

There's entertainment value in non fiction.

But typically that's not the driving factor behind why people want to write it or read it for that matter.

So it's.

There is a different conversation.

But you're right, there's.

It's pretty much at the surface or at its core, it's pretty much the same.

Yeah.

Can you talk a little bit about your experience with the first author where you're creating this thing together?

What was that process like and how did you decide from that point on you would create the business that you did?

Yeah.

Oh my gosh, now you're going to make me reach back into the recess.

Recesses of my memory here, like 16.

Or the feelings not Necessarily specific.

So I'm a pretty, I'm a pretty spiritual person.

Like, I'm a little.

I, you know, I'm a little woo woo.

I actually coined a genre term called soulful nonfiction to really capture the essence of what I do and who I support and the type of people and type of books I want to help, you know, create magic in my corner of the world.

Right.

And it again, took me a long time to really land at that.

But I love the idea of bringing kind of this spiritual idea into, into the process.

So that being said, I will just tell you, when I first spoke with this woman, her name's Alexandra and didn't have a clue, like, I couldn't tell her, like, yes, please come join my program or please come hang out with me and do my framework.

You know, like, I didn't have any of that.

And so I was just, I was.

I remember feeling like this very deep intuitive, like, yes, just yes, you need to do this.

And I trusted that.

And I was honest with her and I said, I haven't worked on a book before, but her friend Lori, my.

My other client, my real estate broker client, vouched for me, said, this girl knows what she's doing.

She will work hard.

She believes in this.

Like, she vouched for me.

And I remember just following that.

Yes.

And saying, alexandra, I don't know specifically, like, I can't tell you step by step how we're going to do it, but we're going to jump in and we're going to figure this out.

And we did.

And we just.

It was such a beautiful, like, synergistic partnership, like a collaboration.

And I remember feeling so honored that she trusted me with her story because it was such a deeply transformational healing experience for her.

And my job, especially as a coach or someone who's helping to develop a book, my job is to help capture that and make sure that that is honored on the page, but also that the readers are served.

Right.

So there's two kind of.

On the surface, they can be kind of conflicting energies, right.

Someone wants to give and someone wants to take, and we gotta make sure that those two match.

And so she and I kind of dance.

I like to call a lot of what I do is a little bit of a dance because there is this.

There's this flow, there's this exchange of energy, and then there is this very like co creative space that we are entering into.

It's not just her giving orders or me giving orders and saying, do this, do that.

It's Having a conversation, and I remember being so excited for the opportunity, so honored, and just understanding that this was a place where I really had to, like, trust, fall into the universe and say, like, okay, I'm.

I'm following the nudge, and I'm just going to trust that this is, first of all, not about the money, because I just.

I wasn't there yet, right?

I wasn't.

I wasn't doing this for the money.

I was doing this because I felt that this is what I needed to be doing.

And.

And she had nothing but beautiful things to say about our experience and about the way her book turned out.

And, um, so I think the lesson there is, like, follow the nudge, right?

It doesn't have to make sense.

I mean, it didn't make any sense on paper, Kevin.

Like, I didn't make hardly any money, and I didn't even have a contract.

Like, I didn't have, you know, I didn't have, like, the paper that said, like, hey, Alexander, you're in safe hands.

Right?

Like, I had nothing that she should have felt okay with other than this very just open, clear vibe energy.

Right.

And so, which is part of the reason why I always offer, like, free zoom calls with all of my prospective clients.

I want them to understand who they're working with.

This is a very sacred type of work that we do together.

It's a sacred space that we open together and exist in together.

There's a lot of deep healing and deep feeling that goes on when you.

When you pour your heart into a book, which is why I call it soulful nonfiction, because it's really rooted in that deep place.

Yeah, that's.

That's amazing.

I think it's great when you can listen to the intuition, and that's oftentimes, like, out of nowhere.

It just.

It just is.

You just have to trust in the universe and the way that it's pointing you, and you can't think logically about every single thing that happens.

Even though I tried to do that myself, I just tried to think through everything as much as I can.

Sometimes there's just, like, a calling from the universe that says, go ahead and give it a try and see what happens versus, you know, if I overthink this, I'm never going to do it.

I'm just going to be stuck where I am for sure.

The fact that she trusted you is just probably one of the things where if you have a strong enough connection with somebody, you trust them enough to do something, because you know they're going to work as hard as they can to make something happen versus, you know, going with any other person because there's like an infinite number of people or opportunities that you can work with or do.

So it's really the connection with people.

If you're working on a one to one type service level where you need to have that connection and why you still tend to do your zoom calls before you even start working with somebody.

Yeah, yeah, I think there's.

There's like we throw terms around.

I don't know.

You know, you've been in the service space for a while, right?

And talking to creatives and I think there's terms that are thrown around that people kind of take for granted, like heart led entrepreneurs.

Right.

Like that type of thing.

But I think there is so much value in truly leading with your heart and like truly leading with such an openness and an authentic energy and just saying, hey, Alexandra, you know what?

I have never worked on a book before and you know how, you know how many insecurities can pop up when you go, like, I've never done this before, I can't guarantee anything for you, but I think it's that openness and that ability to just be vulnerable and say, look, I might not be able to tell you exactly how I can get this done, but I know that me saying yes is the right thing here.

And I want you to trust me and I want you to jump into this with me and we will make this beautiful book together.

And of course, I had to just rely on that gut instinct.

And you know, I absolutely had skills.

I knew I wasn't going to fail her miserably on that level.

I had the skills.

I just didn't know how to package them.

Right.

Like a, like a real business owner.

Because now of course, I have all these years of experience and I know exactly what I did wrong.

And I can look back and say, oh my gosh, Young Daniel Danielle, she was so naive and sweet and we just bless her little heart.

But it's exactly where you need to start.

You just have to start somewhere.

And I think leading with that heart and like really being authentic and true about what is real to you and what you can provide and where you might need to make adjustments going forward and having that ability to just co create, like in a flexible kind of adaptable way, rather than saying, step one, step two, oh my gosh, like I'm on a deadline, like leading a little bit more, like kind of left brain, logical structure.

Right.

Like you're talking to creatives in, in this Space.

Right.

So lean into that creative energy to allow you to make those connections.

Yeah.

You can either, you know, do it the right way, quote, unquote, right way.

Where you go to school, you.

You work in the publishing industry, you do all this stuff, or you can go the complete opposite way.

You don't know what you don't know.

And that can sometimes be a benefit to people because you're like, oh, I don't know what the rules are.

So I'm.

I'm gonna make mistakes, but I'll learn from them.

And usually when you do that, you avoid some of the pitfalls because everyone's always like, oh, this is exactly you need to do.

And sometimes that exact way doesn't work.

Right.

Because some things work for some people and some things don't work for other people.

Which is why I think experimentation in any sort of creative pursuit is, like, crucial to anything.

Like, you cannot function as a creative person unless you're willing to take chances, experiment on things, and see how things evolve as you do them.

For sure.

I could not agree any more.

And I like to kind of consider myself like a loving, like, loving rule breaker or something, you know, a very nice rule breaker.

I'm not out there trying to wreak havoc.

But I also don't think some rules need to be followed, like some industry standards or things that people have, like, placed in front of you because they've done it before.

And so therefore, you must do it.

Right.

And so I think the act of creation in any form allows you to, like you said, experiment and iterate and refine and tweak and make this your own.

And that's what really makes you stand out and special.

Yeah.

And sometimes when you follow the formula that people say works and those works, that's when you, like, fall into this sea of sameness.

Right.

Because if you look onto any bookshelf, like, say if you went to Barnes and Nobles and you just looked on the bookshelves, you would see.

I just saw, like, an article about this.

There's a cover, and it looks the same on every single book.

And you're like, okay, what makes me want to pick any of these books over the other.

Yeah, yeah.

And.

And just to clarify, like, I.

There are.

There's absolute value in going out there, and, like, if you don't know what you're doing, finding a guide or a mentor or to help you, like, find your way.

Right.

But I always reserve a little bit of discernment to say, like, does this feel right for me?

You know, if I run up against resistance, and I run up against things that are, like, feeling unnecessarily challenging.

It's.

It might just not be the right specific step for me.

I might be going in the right direction, but I might need to do this a little differently for me.

And as someone who is.

Frankly, I'll just be frank with you, Kevin, as a female in the space of business, right?

Like, it's.

There's a lot of.

When I first started, there was a lot of male voices out there saying, do this, do that.

You know, what you do is you just quit your job and you live on your parents couch in their.

In their garage, and then you save all your money.

And.

And I'm like, fellas, fellas, I got four kids.

I got a mortgage payment.

Like, I got to do this my way.

Right?

Like, I got to do this in a way that works for me.

And I've been trying to shift into a bit more of a feminine space of allowing creation to, you know, kind of inspire the way in which I structure my business.

So it's really bringing, like, that structure in with the creativity and the flow and allowing for that to be really supportive.

And so it's not really about breaking rules or doing everything your own way, despite what's out there.

It's allowing for you to, like, keep that discernment and go, is this right for Danielle?

Because you are unique, human, unique individual, doing your own work, even though there's hundreds, if not thousands of book coaches out there, publishing companies that can do the same darn thing as me.

Right?

That's.

That's life.

That's.

And that's actually really cool that we're all out there doing some awesome work, but I get to decide what rules are worth adopting, what guidelines support me and what don't.

And that's really what it's about.

I think it's about discernment.

Yeah.

It's just because, like, when you follow your intuition like you originally did, you'll.

You'll find that you'll know which projects you want to take on when you talk to people and which ones you don't want to and which way you want to go with that certain project, the more that you discover together the way it should go.

Because you can have a vision or they can have a vision in the beginning, and it might be completely different by the end of the day.

Right.

I'm sure that's happened, right?

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

I mean, more often than not, things don't go as you plan.

Right.

I think what is that saying?

Like, when humans plan, God laughs or something?

You know what I mean?

Like, have you heard that where it's like, we try to plan and the universe is like, oh, you're so cute, you know, like, oh, that's so cute.

Look at your little plan.

But, But I do think there's value in jumping in.

Like, even if you're not getting, like, a strong intuitive hit, but it's something that you feel like you have the skills for or you'd love to learn.

There's value.

There's so much value jumping in and saying yes to things that you might not be an expert in or familiar with as much, Right?

So I spent nine years freelancing, and I don't know if you understand what that really means, but it's literally saying yes to anything that came my way that didn't sound horrible.

And so I was afforded an opportunity to learn and get paid to learn a lot because I was just in the right place with the right people.

And I showed up really authentically and I put my work ethic out there.

I was just like, let me show you how hard and determined I will work for you to make sure that you get the best service possible.

And I really focused on making that.

Oh, my gosh, the word is escaping me.

Reputation.

My reputation of being a really hard, hard working, trustworthy service provider and creating those really strong bonds with my clients, and which is actually part of how my business came into the picture, because as a gig worker, it was very much like, hey, Danielle, can you do this quick and I'll go find someone else to do the rest?

And it was like, yeah, sure, no problem.

Wham, bam, thank you, ma'.

Am.

I do the work, I get paid, we go on our merry ways.

But now I have this beautiful, like, team and system set up so that I can actually create relationships with my clients and see them from the beginning to the end.

And that was one thing I loved about my experience.

Gig working that didn't actually last as long as I wanted it to.

So I really focused on making those connections and making relationships out of this and.

And being of service in my services, right?

So I think there's tons of value in saying yes.

I had a client, for example, he hired me to do an edit of his book, and he loved working with me so much that he decided to hire me to do voiceovers for his.

He was building a real estate property management software, and I was like, I was helping him write the descriptions for his, like, knowledge base, and then he wanted me to do these videos and do this voiceover.

He bought me this microphone.

He bought me this computer.

He said, after the job, they're yours.

I'm not kidding.

Like, he bought me thousands of dollars worth of equipment.

And it was because I said yes and I was willing to learn.

And because of him, I've had a huge video presence in my business because I'm really comfortable creating and editing video.

And that has been one of my most powerful marketing strategies, is being in the room, being able to show up on video and not just write.

I'm a writer, so I love to write and I talk to writers.

But there's something magical about being able to feel someone's energy.

So that's just a really lovely little example of, like, how saying yes and just being willing and open to experimenting and learning, especially when you're new, can help you get to where you need to go or where you're meant to be.

Yeah, I mean, that's.

It's such a.

A fun little story, and it's such a great lesson for people to know that whatever you do is going to change the way that your.

Your trajectory is going forward.

So you could have said no to that.

And you may never have gotten into video at all, but through the.

The idea of taking a chance and leaning into, like, the experimentation and new things kind of deal, you were able to grow in a way that you hadn't expected for sure.

And I was telling my daughter last night, she's 15 and she's in high school, and so we're having some conversations, you know, you remember being in high school?

So I just told her, you know, I don't believe in mistakes.

I believe that we stand on crossroads and we have decisions to make, and really, no decision is less valuable than the other.

Like, you can't say you can't make a wrong decision unless you choose not to act at all.

I think that's where we, you know, where we really do ourselves wrong, because sometimes we don't know for sure.

And so if you're not getting that huge intuitive yes, you just got to start moving, and then eventually you're going to receive data, you're going to receive insights, you're going to receive lived experience is going to teach you whether that feels like a smooth path or whether you have to pivot.

Right.

And I think in entrepreneurship, pivoting is like, you have to learn to be flexible and adaptable, and pivoting is like second nature.

You have to learn to allow that to be second nature to your instincts.

And to say, like, okay, where do I need to step next in order for me to continue on this path?

So, yeah, it's just.

It's a beautiful dance.

Such a beautiful experiment.

It's.

I. I just think I just look at it, like, practice every day, just out here practicing, trying to see what works.

Yeah.

No, no one knows what they're doing, really.

It's just like a series of experimentations, one after the other until you end up where you are.

There's a really interesting graphic.

I don't know if you've seen it, but it starts off like a tree.

And there's like, hundreds or thousands or millions of decisions that you could have met, made to lead you to this point.

And you're like, oh, my gosh, there's so much that went into it.

But if you look forward, that same thing goes all the way the opposite direction.

So everything led to your path here, and then everything going forward, you still have an infinite number of opportunities to don't, like, look back at the past and say, I should have done this.

There's no point in doing that because you have this whole road in front of you where you have decisions that you can make.

Yeah, I love that.

I haven't seen that graphic, actually, but I love that concept because it just.

It allows you to just feel at peace and not drag around regrets and doubts and all of that crap that just, like, does not do you any favor, especially as a creative entrepreneur, where you have to stand up and you have to own, like, very vulnerable things about yourself.

This is what I'm good at.

This is where I stand firm.

This is what I do.

This is what I stand for.

This is who I want to support.

This is what I care about.

Right.

Like, we're putting our hearts out there through our creation, and it can be really scary to be judged.

And the last thing we need is judgment on ourselves.

Right.

I just read in, you know, Don Miguel Ruiz, the Four Agreements he had.

Okay, well, read that book.

But he has this book called the Mastery of Love, and I just read this line this morning that said something like, we only accept, like, the.

He used the word abuse.

But, like, harm or shame or doubt or whatever, like, we only accept that from other people in the level that we accept it from ourselves.

So, like, the less that you allow yourself to doubt and to shame and to, like, you know, sit in that, like, I shoulda, woulda, coulda.

I'm such an idiot.

Whatever.

Like, that's what you accept from other people and imagine how that impacts your Bottom line, when you allow clients in that will do that, or peers, you know, when you allow collaborations in your life that don't serve you right.

And so I've just grown to a place where I'm like, I'm never going to be perfect.

I'm never going to make the most amazing decision in every single moment.

But I'm going to do my best.

I'm going to do my best based on what I know right now.

And then in the next moment I'm going to learn more and I get to continually reassign, assess what my best is and what I know and which next step I want to make, that's my freedom.

That's my freedom.

I get to choose.

Yeah.

I mean, if you want to get down on yourself, there's like infinite opportunities to do that.

Right.

So we might as well just like forget about that and just see the best way that we can move forward.

Because you can just drown in like self pity or doubt or comparison or any of those things where there's like any number of things that can stop you from doing anything.

But yeah, and the inverse is true too, where the more you believe in yourself, the more others believe in you.

Yeah.

People will believe in you unless you believe in yourself.

Like that's just a given.

Because if you don't, if you don't have the confidence that you can achieve it, then you won't.

Exactly, exactly.

I do want to ask a little bit about how you were able to balance all of your business with, you know, newly being a single mother in that world.

How did you balance your life and your work and all this stuff together and because you said you were making like, I don't know, some crazy little amount of money when you were doing that first book.

Well, and the first book was when I was freelancing and I was working full time.

So the money wasn't as imperative as when I went full time, obviously, and this was my sole income.

So let me ask you this, Kevin.

Do you want to know how new full time entrepreneur Danielle did it or do you want to know how experienced entrepreneur of today does it?

Because it's two different answers and I'm happy to share both.

I would like to know where you started and how you evolved into where you are now.

Okay, let's do it.

I had just quit my full time career and I had four kids and a mortgage and all of these bills and how I made that happen because I've consistently every single year made over six figures in my business, which is kind of amazing when you think about it.

How I made that happen in the early days was with a lot of hustle and grinding and quite frankly a lot of burning out.

And it took me a few years to really, to really understand that that was not going to sustain me.

It was a short term fix.

I'm not going to lie like it works.

You can stay up late and work 13, 14, 18 hour days if you want.

You truly can.

But I got to the point where my body decided to rebel and she was just like, nah, you're not going to be able to drag me out of bed today.

I am absolutely burned out myself.

Spirit was just sucked dry.

I didn't leave any room for joy, I didn't leave any room for play, I didn't leave hardly any room for relationships.

It was just, it was a constant movement based on survival, based on fear really.

Right.

This lack.

And because I had, I like to say I only have plan A, right?

Like my plan A is this business is going to work or it doesn't.

Like there's no plan B for me.

Believe me.

I've tried to go find employment.

When there was down months I, I, there's been a couple times where I broke down and I went and I'm like, let me find the nearest paralegal job.

It will not support my lifestyle.

It will not support the person that I am today and the person that I want to continue becoming and growing into my.

I jokingly say my backup plan is feet pictures.

And I mean like as a mother, I'll do what I gotta do but, but if you leave yourself no out of something you will figure out how to make it work.

And for me the figuring out how to make it work was relying on the fact that I was always a hard worker and that I was like driven by this kind of.

If I had to be honest with myself today, I didn't probably see it the same as before, but this fear of just not being able to provide for my kids, what if we don't survive?

Right?

It was a very real survival based fear and I'm not telling you that that's any different today.

I still provide full time income for my children and my mother, by the way, I'm supporting my mother and I don't get any support outside of my business.

This is my sole financial flow and so if I allow it, if I sit down and really allow it, the pressure can really be heavy.

But instead I choose to experience that it's such a gift because it allows me to really step into, like, all of the amazing, incredible things that I love about myself today.

And so how I've made this shift, number one, if you can hire a coach, I don't care what you call it, like life coach, whatever.

I have had people in my back pocket supporting me in various roles.

And this is a lonely job, this is a lonely place to be without people supporting you.

So find a community, find a network, hire someone.

I don't care what you do, but don't do it alone because you really can't see what you don't know.

And so find people.

I call them my mirrors.

Find people that expand your perspective and will hold up a mirror and say, girl, what are you doing?

Why are you continuing to burn yourself out?

Why haven't you taken a break?

Why haven't you, like, literally scheduled in downtime for yourself?

So I got to the place within the last couple years, and I'll tell you, I was kind of forced into this place because my body just stopped cooperating.

I like to say that with, with him, he took my last f. He took my last fuck.

I was holding on to things that didn't matter.

I was trying to do things in a way that did not serve me.

And I got to this point where I'm like, man, he was 40 years old when he died, and he died three weeks after I turned 40.

And I just was like, there's no reason that I should not be enjoying this journey.

I've created this business.

I've designed this business.

I poured my heart and soul into it.

It should not be killing me.

It should not be not feeding me right.

And so the way that I take care of myself and juggle everything, because I do have kids full time at my house with me, my youngest two are 12 and 15.

My boys are 17 and 23.

So I got a spread and we have a lot of fun and they're there a lot.

So that's just to say motherhood is a full time job.

And so I actually started looking at everything as a full time job.

Mentally, I can wrap my head around my business being a full time job.

I show up for business hours.

I set really healthy boundaries.

I communicate those boundaries to my clients and my contractors and whoever else needs to know.

And I do my best to really live within those boundaries as far as work goes.

And then I Look at my motherhood as a full time job.

These are the hours that I'm like dedicated to my children.

Of course, if things happen and my kids need me during business hours, my business has been designed to support my motherhood because that's a role I can't really opt out of.

You can't really like put your two weeks in there.

So, you know, probably like prioritize that one over business.

But I consider that a full time job.

I spend time, I dedicate time to being present with my children.

They're growing up.

Like I want to be there with them and they're not going to be kids for very long.

You know, it's their growing up before my eyes.

So anyway, so that's another full time job, meaning I treat it with boundaries and love and openness, like I do my business and then my third full time job is myself, which has never been how I operated.

I took my own wellness, physical, mental, spiritual wellness for granted because I was, I'm just kind of, I just have like a strong design.

I don't know, I'm stocky German farmers in my lineage, whatever.

Like we're built for, we're built for sturdy weather, you know, I'm in Minnesota, so like, you know, it's hard to kill me, I don't know.

But like I, I took that for granted for a long time.

I've had good health, thankfully.

Right.

These are, these are blessings.

But I now dedicate very specific energy and time to caring for myself and to allowing space that does not get interrupted or trunk like it does not get overwritten by things.

And on top of all that, what I'm working on right now, my biggest piece of my transformation and shift is allowing all of that to really flow and be flexible with each other.

So if I'm dedicating time to my business that I don't get to show up to, does that mean I reschedule it?

Does it mean that, you know, this is just what happens that day and I don't need to beat myself up for it?

You know, what does that look like?

Right?

And so all of these pieces and all of these priorities in my life all intertwine and work with each other instead of compete with each other, because that's what it was for a long time, a competition, right?

Like I'm dumping energy into my business.

Sorry, kids, you're waiting.

You know, whatever.

You take second fiddle or vice versa, right?

And I wasn't serving my clients if something came up with my children.

So I'm learning to really be adaptable and graceful and give myself a lot of compassion and to call in support.

I have two coaches right now, a fitness and nutrition coach, and she's amazing.

And she's a single mom and a business owner, so she understands what it's like to care for your body and your wellness in the same shoes that I'm walking in.

So that was a complete game changer for me because it took all of the shame and the blame out of, like, not being perfect and not, like, doing, you know, seeing things happen the way I want them to.

Right.

The way we schedule them to.

And then I have a personal coach, and you can call her like a life coach or a business coach, but she just cares for me, like, she's there for me to go to for support for all of the things that are happening inside Danielle's brain.

So it's just something that I think I'll always have is people in my corner that I either pay or that are part of my tribe, right?

Like my.

My networking tribe, and then my family that are there to support me.

So I've had to learn, especially as a firstborn type, a daughter of divorce, you know, career woman.

Like, I've had to learn to humble myself to a place where I, out of self, love, ask for help.

That has not been a strength of mine.

So that's been another huge lesson for me, Kevin.

It's been.

It's been a beautiful journey.

Humbling and beautiful.

Wow.

Oh, so much good stuff in there.

I. I think it's really important to really lean into the help and be open to it, because as, like, solopreneur or small entrepreneurs, you can.

You can definitely burn yourself out by continuing to work like you did or, you know, not accepting the fact that you could use help or you could, you know, work with other people to grow yourself and your business.

You just have to be willing to do that.

And it's so funny because we look up to these people like, I don't know, actors or singers or, like, athletes, and we're like, oh, they're amazing, right?

But how many coaches do each of these people have?

How many people trainers do they have?

How many, like, we look up to these people as if they were subhuman, but really it's through the act of working with other people, and there's their strengths and seeing what our own weaknesses are and our strengths are and improving ourselves constantly.

We.

We accept it from certain occupations, but we don't accept it for ourselves.

Isn't that crazy?

And I just think I That's why I really hold close and dear this concept of a mirror.

Because you can't address what you can't see, right?

And a lot of our weaknesses exist in our blind spots, right?

And sometimes we see our weaknesses as strengths or we don't see the shadow side of our strengths, right?

So I'm a very, like, fast operator.

I'm very bold, I'm very confident.

And sometimes that comes across really edgy and like impatient, right?

Because I just, I'm processing so quickly and I just know where things are going to go.

I just take, you know, I just understand things intuitively.

And I've had people say, okay, I get that you are arriving in the same place, but I would love to not be like, steamrolled on the way.

So I've done a lot of work on that because I didn't see that.

I saw this as a strength and not something that other people were experiencing as, you know, hey, we could improve here, right?

So I keep people around who will lovingly deliver feedback for my ultimate good and not do it as criticism and not do it as just feedback that just lands and you go like, what the heck am I supposed to do with this?

Right There, there's there to kind of like be that loving mirror, that whole, that space holder and help me grow.

Because everything that you.

I don't know, I think it was Joseph Campbell that said, like, everything you desire is like in, you know, you have to go into the cave, whatever.

You know that saying, you know that, you know that quote about going into the darn cave.

I just consider myself the cave, right?

Like in all that dark, darkness and all those shadows and all of those corners that you can't see exist everything that you really want in life.

And so if you can find people that can shed light on these, right?

Hold the light for you and hold the mirror up and say, girl, let's look at this, right?

And just remain open for self analysis and self evaluation and self awareness.

I, I jokingly tell people, like, if you want to be a better person, like, and you want to do it really quickly, start a business because it will tell you what you're made out of real quick and it will tell you where you need to spend time growing and focusing on improving.

It really will.

You can't hide from yourself in that way.

That's, that's great advice.

I think we, we just need to be willing to change ourselves and improve ourselves because we can off.

We can be stubborn and say, I don't need to change or whatever.

If.

Especially if you're doing well.

Right.

You can say, I don't need to change because everything is working so well.

But you throw one cog into that thing and everything falls apart.

Right.

So it's really about knowing, like, constantly reevaluating, because it also changes.

Is what.

What our strengths are.

What are we?

Can I focus in this particular moment in my life?

Yeah.

Because life changes all the time.

It's.

It's constantly changing, and there's a lot of things out of our control.

So just knowing that you need to evolve just constantly in order to be the best version of yourself.

Yeah, absolutely.

And it's not about change for change sake.

Right.

Like, exactly what you landed on.

Be the best version of yourself.

I. I look at life as a journey with no.

No destination.

That's.

It's just a constant process of evolution.

Evolution and growth and becoming.

And I'm just.

I'm here to enjoy the journey.

Like, there's just no place I'm supposed to be landing.

I'm not arriving anywhere.

And that just makes it again, like, I just look at it like a practice.

Like, you're just out there kind of kicking the ball around on the field, soccer field, and practicing and having fun and learning what works and what doesn't.

No, the stakes are low in that way.

Right?

Like, yes, the stakes are high, but the stakes aren't life and death high.

Right.

So we can go out there and have fun and enjoy this ride.

Yeah, I. I think we oftentimes will look at.

Set a goal post for ourselves, and once we hit it, we're like, okay, now what?

You're just constantly moving the goal post forward and far and forward, and it's really about.

It's such a cliche, but it's like the journey versus the destination.

Because the destination, once you hit it, you're like, okay, I don't know what to do now.

I've hit all my dreams.

I've done all the things I wanted to do.

Right.

What do I do now?

Like, then what?

Yeah, but there's a reason cliches are cliches, Kevin, Because.

And that's actually where I have people start with their books.

Like, tell me the cliche that your book would sum up and.

Because they're universal and they just.

They cut to the core of being a human.

Right.

So I just, I. I try not to discount cliches.

We don't want them in your books.

You know, we want to avoid writing cliches, but I think there's value in those cliches when you really dig deep and pull them apart.

So.

Yeah, I'm with you.

Yeah.

It's just knowing what the cliche is and.

Yeah.

Not believing it just because it is a cliche.

It's like really thinking about it and.

Yeah.

Making sure that it does make sense.

Exactly.

Because things will light.

I mean, just the way that the universe works.

Some things will no longer be cliches.

Like the.

The way that the universe operated hundreds or thousands of years ago is definitely not the way it operates now.

So it's like, always constantly evaluate what you're told and whether or not you should believe it.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

Especially in the age of AI, which we don't need to go there, but this is an AI, Right.

That's a whole nother show.

We might need to schedule another one to talk about that.

But I agree.

That's why I go back to the word discernment.

Right.

We're just operating, especially creatives, because I think creatives are innately open to experimenting and playing and dabbling in spaces that haven't been experienced, explored, or haven't been proven or whatever.

Right.

And so we're.

We're like, willing to kind of go there, but then we just are discerning.

Right.

Does this work for me?

Does this fit for me?

Does this make sense for me?

Do I understand the value in this?

We.

We have choices to make at every opportunity.

Awesome.

Got a couple more questions left.

Yeah.

Do you know personally who also runs a standout creative business?

Yeah, I. I am blessed to know many of them, but one that I really would love to shout out is my coach.

Just in full disclosure, she's my.

She's my coach, Kayla McArthur.

And what I love about the way that she shows up in this space is that she is willing to do things differently that serve her, and then you can see it immediately start serving her audience.

And so she uses, you know, very.

I would.

I would say, very feminine tools and ways of operating that totally go against the, like, very patriarchal, dominated, like, ways of.

Of doing business.

Right.

And so I've really been inspired by her over the years, and I just love the way that she's creating space for people to really own the way in which they want to do business.

It doesn't have to follow the footsteps of others that have gone before you.

It can if that serves you right.

And so she's just been so empowering for me and so inspiring and so permission giving, permission giving.

And I. I would just love to shout her.

Good workout.

Yeah.

I think it's so important to find the people that you feel the biggest connection with or you feel like the best fit for you, because that coach may not be for somebody else.

Right.

So it's so important to figure it out.

What is it that you actually want and need and figure out who it is that can best help serve that thing to you that you need?

Yeah, absolutely.

What is one extraordinary book, podcast, or documentary that has made the biggest impact on your journey?

Yeah, this is a.

This is like asking me my favorite book.

Although I do have a favorite book, but it's sort of like, what's your favorite song?

I mean, I could never tell you, but I will say when I'm asked that question, the book that comes to mind for me, I'm gonna go book is Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert, which is an older book, and it's pretty well known at this point.

And I'll tell you, the one thing that shifted something massive in me was the way she talks about how ideas come to creatives and how ideas that are meant to, like, stick around and for you to, like, grab and build and, like, get your hands on.

Right.

They're meant for you.

You won't miss that opportunity, and the rest are just not meant for you.

And they're gonna go on and they're gonna live somewhere else.

They're gonna go find their home.

Right.

And what that did for me was release me from this kind of, like, FOMO idea of what if I make the wrong decision?

What if I am spending my energy in the wrong place?

What if I'm missing something over here?

And, like, kind of.

Kind of along the lines of fomo, like, the thing that I'm supposed to learn right now, it will come to me.

Like, the people in my life that I'm supposed to be interacting with, they will come to me.

Like, I just learned to trust divine timing and divine, you know, support, if you will.

And that book really unlocked that for me that I'm.

I'm never in the wrong place in order to, like, carry out my.

Carry out my dream and my vision and my passion.

Yeah.

I don't remember who exactly said this, but if an idea is sticky enough and then you need to be working on it, it will come back to you.

So don't worry about Gilbert.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It will always find its way back into your mind.

Oh.

Put it aside.

Okay.

This is creeping back.

Creeping back.

So if.

Even if you feel like it needs to be done, but there's something else you want to do, pick one of them.

And if that idea really needs to happen, it will reappear constantly until it forces you to work on it.

Yeah.

And what I love about that is, like, the idea of being able to put ideas, like, in a parking lot.

I don't know if you've heard that term, but it's like, just like a little holding space for ideas that you aren't, like, actively building out.

Because I don't know if you can relate, Kevin, but I'm a creative person, which means I like to create, which means I like to start projects, and I don't always finish them.

And that is actually okay.

It's not.

This is just a part of who I am.

I need to be able to experiment and explore and start things.

And if they continue, like, you know, Elizabeth Gilbert or whoever, you know, said your quote, if they're meant for you, it's.

You're not going to come up against resistance that you can't conquer.

Right.

Like, you're not going to come up against boundaries that you can't.

Or not boundaries.

What is the word I'm looking for, Kevin?

Help me out.

The obstacles.

There we go.

Obstacles that you can't get around.

Right.

Like, yes, there's going to be challenges.

I'm not trying to say it's going to be smooth sailing, but the.

If you're meant to follow that, that, that path, that thread, that idea, it will happen.

It will happen.

And so everything else can just hang out in a little parking lot that you go and you visit once in a while, and you go, oh, what's feeling sparkly today?

And if nothing feels sparkly, that's okay.

Let it hang out.

And maybe that idea was meant for someone else, and that's okay, too.

But nothing is ever lost, right?

Nothing is ever missed.

That's how.

That's what that gave me.

And it just gave me the confidence to continue moving forward and not attaching energy to the idea of worrying or fear or, you know, thinking.

I'm just missing something and just allowing me to focus on what's most important.

Yeah.

I've set so many things aside.

It's like.

It's incredible.

Like, the ideas that.

That go away, but if they're important enough, they will make their way back.

And I've done that.

I've come back to things that I've set aside.

So just know one thing I would recommend if you're going to do that, is to write down all your ideas as soon as.

As you have them, because otherwise they will disappear.

You'll be like, I'm gonna remember.

You're not gonna remember.

It's like, just write everything down that you need to remember, and you'll just have to refresh yourself.

Yeah.

Yep.

Create a little parking lot.

Put it in there.

Perfect landing spot for them.

Yeah.

What do you think makes a creative business stand out?

And what piece of advice would you give to somebody, based on your experience, on how they can stand out?

Yeah.

You know, frankly, we've probably been dancing around the answer to this question, this specific question, and without trying to sound too, like, cliche or whatever, but the word authenticity comes to mind, and not in the way that I think you're thinking of it, but I think your business gets to be you flavored.

Right.

Like, I run a publishing company, but I get to.

To flavor it with Danielle.

Right.

I get to.

I get to show up and be part of that business.

And my energy goes into attracting the people that are meant to work with my business.

So I always get a little curious when I see businesses without a face, without, like, a.

Like, a Persona, without having that energy of the creator.

And so I think the more you show up in your business and the more that you are enjoying it, whether it's silly, whether it's, like, not, you know, what the marketing gurus say you should do online or whatever it is, I think that the.

The more you stand out.

Right.

So I shared with you.

I created my own genre term, and it's a little.

It's a little ridiculous if you think about it.

Like, whatever.

Like, I mean, I can't even trademark it.

It's not even, like, a thing I can own specifically, but I own it.

I own it.

I've just made this, like, Danielle flavor.

And, you know, I. I tend to buck trends a little bit, and I talk about that, and I talk about why that doesn't mean that's what you need to do.

But I.

My point is, the more you.

That you show up in business un.

You know, unzipped, if you will, because I think, like, corporate America really taught me, like, you should be buttoned up.

You should always be professional.

You should always have this, like, suit on, right?

Like, this mask of, like, professionalism.

I'm not telling you to not be professional.

I'm just telling you to be you, because you are absolutely the magic behind what makes your business successful.

And the more that you embrace that, the more you really get to know yourself and discover yourself and discover the, like, what makes you so unique and amazing.

And the more you infuse that into your business, the more I think you're going to enjoy it and people are going to be drawn to you, you're going to be memorable.

Yes.

It's so funny that when you try to fit in with all the other people doing the same thing as you, it completely wipes away any reason for people to choose you.

Yeah.

And you might be adopting very successful strategies.

Right.

And that's totally fine.

But then how do you make them yours?

How do you own them as yours?

Right.

And so that's really what I think.

Ultimately the question is because if you are a creative entrepreneur running a creative based business, you're the creator and you really need to make this like, as, as loving and spacious for you to show up in as possible.

And that doesn't mean doing everything everyone else's way unless that also serves you right.

So.

Yeah, I agree.

If you don't stand out, you don't stand out.

People aren't going to find you.

Yeah.

And why are you doing it in the first place?

What is it that makes you want to do it?

And if you're not doing it as you, then who are you doing it as?

And why?

Why are you doing that?

And a lot of times the stuff that you find when you look at the answers to those questions really honestly has nothing to do with business and everything to do with you.

And the more that I've gotten to know myself and to own myself and to love myself really truly get to a point of like self love and self acceptance and again, as cheesy and whatever as that sounds, that's truly been the secret for me to like, I don't know, I. I'm not, I'm not a millionaire yet, Kevin.

But it's on its way and money is great.

But what is so much more valuable for me at the end of the day is like, I wake up feeling so fulfilled, loving that I'm living this life that I designed.

I have my hands on every aspect of this life and it's beautiful.

And what a gift.

What a gift.

And that's really what I think makes people remember you and really helps you stand out, is that you show up and you exude this energy and this light that is so seamless almost.

You don't really have to try.

When you get to this place, it's a process of really tapping into that.

And that's, I think that's what really makes people find you and stick with you.

Awesome.

Can you give the listeners a challenge that they can take action on right away to start standing out?

Okay, so I'm Going to give you a writing assignment.

I don't know if that surprises is you, but I would love for you to write or you know, create like a story or whatever, somehow.

But writing, there's very.

There's power in writing and there's power in words and there's power in choosing specific words.

So do not use AI for this.

Okay?

But I want you to write a post to your followers in whatever space that means for you and just share with them why you do what you do and why it's so important.

And I want you to find a specific moment that things really shifted for you or really landed for you or that decision you made to like do the brave thing and step out and really own your space in this creative world.

So I want you to think of that moment and share that with people and just, I want you to tap into the fact that this is probably going to feel a little vulnerable.

I really want you to allow space for that.

Just allow it.

And when you notice it, just nod at it.

Thank it for coming and set it aside and keep going.

Okay?

And I want you to share this really open, raw, vulnerable piece of writing.

And don't worry about grammar, don't worry about typos, because that's not the point here.

It's not about perfection.

It's about sharing something really, really close to your heart and just allowing people to connect with you on that.

On that level.

So that, that would be my challenge.

And I would love to.

I would love for you to like tag me or something so I can read them and just see how what a shift it feels like for you to do that.

That's a perfect segue into just tell people where they can find you online.

Because it's been amazing, Danielle.

I think people are going to really enjoy this.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I, I'm kind of an old lady and I hang out on Facebook but because Facebook doesn't limit my characters.

Okay.

And I'm a bit of a long form writer, so that's.

That's kind of my main playground.

So I'm on Facebook.

I think it's Danielle Dot, Inkworthy books, whatever.

You'll find me under Inkworthy Books because I'm an Anderson.

There's like too many of me out there.

So I am under Inkworthy Books on all the platforms.

Instagram I hang out on.

When they don't limit my characters, I post there and do some videos once in a while.

I do have a YouTube channel.

Again, Inkworthy Books.

And then my soulful non fiction school is on the school platform S K O L. It's where I have created a beautiful little community of writers that are doing the work of writing soulful nonfiction and coming to commune with each other and connect and co create with each other.

And so you can absolutely find me there for more information on how to spend time with me and write your book.

So those are the places you can find me.

Great.

All right.

Danielle, it's been such a pleasure talking to you.

It has been such a pleasure.

Kevin, thanks so much for having me.

I really love this conversation.

All right, bye.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Standout Creatives.

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Thanks again for tuning in and as always, lean into your creativity and curiosity.

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