Are Nurses Actually Underpaid? | Shift Happens Podcast

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Three, two.

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Hello, everyone.

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Welcome back to Shift Happens podcast.

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Thank you guys for tuning in.

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Today we are talking about money talks.

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Are nurses underpaid.

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so our first section is chief complaint.

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So the purpose of a chief complaint

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for all of you that are not in healthcare

is to introduce the episode topic.

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Explain why it matters and present

the central question.

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The episode will answer.

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Our chief complaint today will be.

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I'm responsible for people's lives,

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but does my paycheck reflect

that responsibility?

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Nursing is one of the most trusted

and demanding professions in healthcare.

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Yet many nurses question

whether their compensation truly reflects

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their education, responsibility

and emotional labor.

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Today's question is are nurses

truly underpaid

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or is the real issue

something bigger than salary?

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Tara, I want to hear from you.

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I want to hear from you.

The purpose of the shift report.

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Explore the topic

through personal stories, experiences,

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humor, and honest conversation.

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Millie, do you think nurses are underpaid?

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Why or why not?

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I definitely think that nurses are.

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I feel like I'm in a beauty pageant.

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I definitely think

that nurses are underpaid.

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I don't know about now

because I feel like since Covid happened,

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healthcare administrators

have appreciated the labor of nurses.

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So I think nurses are getting paid

way more.

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And there's also way more travel

opportunities for nurses to make money.

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When I initially started off

in nursing in: 2012

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my first salary or my,

you know, my first rate

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per hour was $19.37.

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I did not know that

I had kind of gone into nursing,

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obviously loving what I was going to do,

but I was like, okay, it's great.

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I'm going to get to do what I love

and be compensated appropriately.

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Honey, I used to work at Walgreens

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as a pharmacy technician,

and I May 14th dollars an hour.

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So you're telling me

I go back to school to get another degree

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because my biology degree

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didn't afford me just a traditional job,

so I had to go back to school.

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So I'm like, at least it'll be worth it.

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On top of having to pay for student loans.

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And now you tell me

I'm making $19 an hour.

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What are we doing here?

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I gotta pay student loans.

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I got to get my Mercedes SUV that I had

dreamed up, and I need a place to live.

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So my big dreams of balling

were cut short.

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I was sitting on the bench.

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So, yeah, I definitely think that nurses

are underpaid for their work.

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You stay 12 hours, you know

you're dedicated to the patient all day.

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You deal with the complaints,

the craziness, the chaos.

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It's a lot.

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And that's why

I always tell our young nurses or people

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that are potentially interested

in doing nursing.

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You have to love what you do

because you can't necessarily

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do it for the money

because it will get old very quickly.

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What are your thoughts, Tara?

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Yeah, I think they're underpaid.

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Is that why you did see RNA?

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I didn't see RNA.

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No, not for the money, really?

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I didn't know that there was so much money

in being a Crna because it.

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I would say I was making way, way

less when I started in: 2010

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Okay.

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But I love what I do, and really,

I like working hard.

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I've always had three and four jobs,

even before I was a nurse as a.

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Yeah.

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And now I have three and four jobs.

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So the money really is a side effect,

because I really love the effect I have

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on patients and working with my coworkers

and doctors and other nurses.

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It makes it easier to go to work.

Yeah, it makes it easier.

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But I definitely feel like

at the end of the day, it's a job.

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Some people get so offended

when people talk about money

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as it relates to nursing and other health

care workers, but we're nothing.

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I mean, we're like a garbage man.

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Everyone should be compensated.

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Or teachers.

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Yes, everyone should be compensated

for what they do.

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So it's everyone's in it for a paycheck

at the end of the day.

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Pay your bills.

You have to pay your bills.

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So you just have to look at it like that.

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But I mean, I just again, I love what I do

and the money the money is great now.

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And I work really hard.

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I work a lot.

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But, Millie, tell us about a time

you feel your workload

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didn't match your paycheck.

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Oh, girl, it was one shift.

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I had a patient with a GI bleed,

and this was when I was making $19.37.

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The doctor asked me to do a enema.

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It was like in a pale,

like a like a actual pale.

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And you put water in it and then you

run it from gravity and to the patient.

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And so Miss Lady was having a hard time

getting out of bed to the bedside commode.

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So I was having to help her back

and forth.

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So she would just

she was kind of wobbling.

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She was like, oh, oh it's coming.

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I'm like, come on now,

let's hurry up and get on this potty.

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She didn't make it.

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Do you know that all of that blood

and feces came out onto my socks,

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my shoes and my clothes,

and I did not have a change of clothes.

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I had never had to do that

in the morning, girl.

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It was like 10:00 still early.

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It was 10:00,

and I, I just had to stand in that.

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And if I had known before

what I was getting myself into,

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then I would have,

you know, come with extra shoes or socks.

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That was the first.

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That was the first

and last time I had to do that.

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So at that moment I was like,

you know, what?

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Am I in the right field? Right.

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This is absolutely disgusting.

Like horrible.

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And then I told the GI doctor when he came

in, he's like, how did it go?

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You had to do it three times.

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I said, look at this.

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He was like,

oh boy, I should have told you.

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So. Yeah, that was definitely

a time that I remember.

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Tell us

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about a time you felt your workload

didn't match your paycheck.

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So, Tara, do you think travel nursing

changed the profession?

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For better or for worse?

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I think travel nursing

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has definitely changed profession,

and I think it has for better.

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Everyone is the same.

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I don't know why

everyone has their panties in a bunch.

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Oh, you're a traveler.

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This is the deal.

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A traveling nurse and a staff nurse

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are the same, right?

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The staff nurse gets vacation.

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The staff nurse gets health care.

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They're the same.

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So it's just a little bit off of balance.

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But if you want to do traveling,

everyone can do traveling.

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But the thing is, with the traveling,

you don't get health care.

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You have to pay for it on your own.

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With for me, for my malpractice.

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I have to pay for my malpractice.

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If I don't work, I don't eat.

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So it all balances out.

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And I feel like traveling is great

for nurses that want to go in areas

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where there's a need,

and that helps with staffing

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and just travel the world

and maybe go somewhere like Hawaii,

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where it's really expensive to live

and they're able to travel and and make

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maybe not as much as they make

in a state that needs more nurses,

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but just able to work and experience

different things.

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I think it really works out

great for keeping what keeping that peace

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we talked about. Yeah.

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Hold on now you're talking about pennies

in a bunch.

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Who has their pennies in a bunch about it?

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Staff nurses are mad

because you're making more money.

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They're making the same thing

they're doing. Right.

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And but they could do it.

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But that's what I'm saying.

It's a balance.

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So while the travel nurse is like,

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there's times

maybe they don't have a contract.

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So that's two weeks

where they may not get paid.

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But the staff nurse, they're always going

to get like paid time off or sick leave.

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So I feel like it all balances out.

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And we need nurses.

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Sometimes there's strikes

and we need nurses to pass the strike line

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and actually go and provide patient care,

because ultimately,

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if we don't have nurses, who's giving

patient care?

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I also think, and you can correct me

if I'm wrong when you're a travel nurse

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or a float nurse, they intentionally

give you high acuity patients.

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Is that true? Because they're like, why?

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I'm going to take all the easy

patients today.

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Since you want to come here

and make $80 an hour,

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we going to give you

all the heart patients.

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Would you say you witnessed that?

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Yeah. Okay.

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That maybe the travels nurses

feel like they're dumped on.

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But if you're in a good facility,

you try to take care of your travelers

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and maybe not shit on them

because they're there to help.

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Yeah.

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Now, Millie, if you could change one thing

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about how nurses are compensated,

what would it be?

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If I could change one thing,

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I feel like raises should be better.

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Like, again,

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I don't know what they're doing now

in hospital facilities, but there were

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there was a hierarchy

of how much of a raise you would get.

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So I think the highest was $0.25 a year,

and then the next year

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was like $0.15, then $0.10, then $0.05,

and then tier five was like no raise.

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So your raise was based

on your performance.

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The manager would go through

whatever she would go through

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and then determine what tier you felt on.

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How do you know what I'm doing at work?

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If we all showing up at the same time,

getting our work done, have high patient

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satisfaction scores,

how do you rank who's the better nurse?

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It also creates disdain amongst

amongst your coworkers and colleagues.

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And lastly,

it almost comes down to favoritism.

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So as I was a new nurse

and I always got the five star

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and then the nurses that had been there

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for a while that I also feel like

did just a great job as me.

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They would get no raise

or be on a level one,

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and it's like they start looking at you

funny and the whispers go, what?

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What tier are you on?

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Whatever you want.

So you're gonna get this 25 cent rise.

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I'm getting the five.

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I didn't even get nothing.

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And I've been here 20 years,

so I feel like it should just be an even

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or level playing field on raises.

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Now how that's calculated

I don't know, maybe it's based off

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patient status, maybe it's based off

the bonuses that the hospital get.

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But then you have MDS coming in

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or other mid-level workers

like respiratory therapists,

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because everybody's

going to want their race. So I get it.

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I don't know how it work,

but I would just suggest a better

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salary increase or raise increase.

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Tara.

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Besides money,

what benefit or workplace change

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would you make to show

the biggest difference of nurses?

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The size? Money?

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Listen, money is all that matters.

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That's how I love money.

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You gotta throw it.

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I feel like I'm a strip club.

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So do you see that fly over there?

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Put the money down, Millie.

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So money is the ultimate.

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So I feel like you have to pay people

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and you have to pay their value.

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Yes, but another thing is a good work

environment.

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You don't want to be around

a hostile work environment.

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You want a great patient load. You don't.

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I don't work in the floor anymore,

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but I don't want to take care of 6

or 8 patients that are very, very sick.

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And when that's not that,

you know, appropriate and safe ratio

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and your lunch breaks, you should be able

to get an adequate lunch breaks.

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Those are some things, I think.

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But again, that's why to throw that money.

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Money is money is king.

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I think also too.

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And let me take my bills there.

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Just I feel like

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we have such a high turnover

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in nursing because we're burnt out in the

the pay does not reflect that.

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Yeah.

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So you will invest money in orientation

training nurses,

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hiring nurses

and then you don't treat them well.

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So you have all these nurses quitting.

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Then a new batch comes in.

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And so it's like it's important

to retain the nurses you do have.

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Because when I was in nursing

it was always new nurses

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because all the old nurses

are leaving like this job.

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They don't take care of us.

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They don't care about us,

we don't feel protected.

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We don't feel supported.

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And then they leave.

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So now you have all these new nurses

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training, new nurses,

where we lost all the good old nurses.

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Millie, let's go to the nurses station

where you gather up that money.

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So the purpose of the nurses

station is to engage the audience

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through anonymous admissions,

listener questions, scenarios and advice.

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So what's our anonymous admission today?

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I love

being a nurse, but sometimes I wonder if I

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if I make more money and have less stress

doing something different.

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I've definitely heard some of our friends

say this, and thank you for leaving

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that anonymous admission

in our Instagram DM.

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Whenever our nursing colleagues

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are asked that question and they respond

because we've all had that conversation,

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I think you said you would be a stripper

and I'd be a rock star, right?

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I love making it right.

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Everybody is like, you know what, I would

love to do this, but I'm not going to.

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I went to school for this.

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I'm still paying loans for nursing.

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What else am I going to do that is stable?

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That has some stability,

health care and education.

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There is always stability

even if you are underpaid.

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So I feel like most of them are like,

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I would like to do this,

I hate my job, but I'm stuck.

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Yeah.

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So then I will recommend hey,

what about trying a different specialty

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or a different field in nursing

because you do get burnt out.

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I know some people that felt that way

and they changed their whole trajectory

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of a career, and they just do something

totally different.

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So sometimes that's good

advice is to try a different niche,

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but a lot of times

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people just totally get out of healthcare

because they just don't like it.

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But I feel like money,

if you're getting paid enough,

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I feel a lot of people quit

and they'll go somewhere else

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because they're not making enough money.

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So I feel like money is really good.

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One of the listener questions,

Millie, is if you could

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instantly improve one thing about nursing,

what would it be?

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Higher pay, better staffing, better

management, or better work life balance?

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Why all that's easy.

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All of the above.

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That is how you're going to retain nurses.

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The hospital was not going to lose money.

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And then when your nurses are happy

or your physicians are happy,

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or any of your staff is happy, then

your turnover is west and your patient

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satisfaction scores increase,

which makes the hospital money.

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Yeah. What do you think?

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I think work life

balance is really coming into play,

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especially

with a lot of the younger nurses,

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those millennials,

they really are not like us.

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They're not going to work, work, work.

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They're really going to enjoy their time.

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They're taking their trips, and they will

go somewhere bowling on a budget.

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As long as they're going and taking their

trips and having their self time.

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So I feel like the work life

balance is really becoming

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very important to make sure that you're

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you're not just at work all the time,

that you do have some life to live.

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Agreed.

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We are going to address the diagnosis,

answering the chief complaint

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by sharing the biggest truth

or takeaway from the discussion.

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nurses aren't just asking for higher pay.

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They're asking for compensation.

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That reflects the responsibility,

the skill and emotional labor

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the profession requires.

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That's important.

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Yeah. And it's reasonable.

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Yes, because salary is only one

part of the equation.

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Staffing leadership.

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Self say I'm sorry.

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Safe working conditions and respect often

determine whether nurses feel valued.

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I want to address that.

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We might make some of these physicians mad

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physicians.

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Not all, but some feel like

I've overheard them saying that.

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Why do nurses

need to make more than what they make?

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You only went to nursing school.

We went to medical school.

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We went to residency.

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We went to fellowship.

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So we're being compensated

for our education.

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Nursing school or nurse

practitioner school?

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You have like 500 clinical hours

where we have 5 to 7 years.

330

: 00:16:13

So what are your thoughts about that?

331

: 00:16:16

I work with this doctor all the time

and he wants to be a crazy so bad. Why?

332

: 00:16:21

Because he's like, Tara, I love your life.

333

: 00:16:22

I say you should have been a a. And

334

: 00:16:26

I feel like

335

: 00:16:27

maybe they question, well,

why do you need to make more?

336

: 00:16:30

Because of the education,

but maybe they don't quite understand

337

: 00:16:34

just exactly what nurses do.

338

: 00:16:36

Like they run the hospital at night

and ICU.

339

: 00:16:41

It's the nurses.

340

: 00:16:42

There are no doctors.

341

: 00:16:43

Yeah. You have your hospitalist or

342

: 00:16:46

the anesthesiology fellows

that come in and call the codes

343

: 00:16:48

or run the codes or call the deceased.

344

: 00:16:51

But the nurses are really running,

so I don't feel like I feel like

345

: 00:16:55

they maybe don't

they don't respect that or. No.

346

: 00:16:59

Yeah.

347

: 00:17:00

Just the level that nurses are running.

348

: 00:17:03

Shit.

349

: 00:17:05

I think it comes down to a liability

issue.

350

: 00:17:08

Like,

you know, if something is misdiagnosed

351

: 00:17:11

or whatnot,

then we are liable for that patient.

352

: 00:17:15

We take more of the responsibility.

353

: 00:17:17

If something goes wrong, more than likely

will be named in the lawsuit

354

: 00:17:21

versus the nurse or another mid-level.

355

: 00:17:24

And they also have a lot of student loans

to pay back.

356

: 00:17:27

And just, you know, observing my husband

and what his colleagues do every day, it's

357

: 00:17:30

very stressful for them to because

nowadays healthcare is just overwhelming.

358

: 00:17:35

Like with the charting, the acuity.

359

: 00:17:37

People are definitely more sick

these days, and they want an instant

360

: 00:17:41

cure by a pill rather than doing the work.

361

: 00:17:45

Let's

go ahead and discuss the treatment plan.

362

: 00:17:47

So the purpose of the treatment

plan is for listeners to leave

363

: 00:17:50

with practical advice, encouragement,

or actionable steps.

364

: 00:17:54

Know your worth.

365

: 00:17:55

Advocate for yourself.

366

: 00:17:56

Negotiate when appropriate.

367

: 00:17:58

Pursue opportunities that align

with your financial and personal goals.

368

: 00:18:03

Don't

compare your career to everyone else's.

369

: 00:18:06

Choose the specialty

370

: 00:18:08

and work environment

that best fits the life you want to build.

371

: 00:18:11

That's what we're talking about

working in your niche.

372

: 00:18:13

That's

why I love it. One job I work, we work

373

: 00:18:17

where we enjoy it.

374

: 00:18:19

So maybe someone likes working

with a particular neurosurgeon.

375

: 00:18:22

They always put them there.

376

: 00:18:24

I like working with this one doctor.

377

: 00:18:27

The one that wants to be a Crna. He's

so funny.

378

: 00:18:29

But I love him.

379

: 00:18:30

He's excellent and

380

: 00:18:33

not everyone likes working with him.

381

: 00:18:34

I don't always like working neurosurgery

or working ortho orthopedic surgery,

382

: 00:18:38

but if you work where you like,

why would you put me where I'm like, oh,

383

: 00:18:42

I hate this.

384

: 00:18:43

Why would you say, well, you have to do it

if someone else enjoys it more.

385

: 00:18:47

So you should work in a specialty

that really you like working in

386

: 00:18:51

because it just makes it better

and you feel like you're getting valued.

387

: 00:18:55

Let me hold on.

Let me ask you one question.

388

: 00:18:57

For the new nurses or the timid nurses,

how would you.

389

: 00:19:01

It's kind of awkward when you try to advocate for your pay, especially as like an

390

: 00:19:06

what is your advice for that?

391

: 00:19:08

Like, have you ever negotiated

your pay as a or as a CRM only?

392

: 00:19:12

Yeah, I've negotiated

393

: 00:19:16

as a nurse with experience

because I feel like with the experience.

394

: 00:19:20

So one thing about when you graduate

as a new nurse, yay, you graduated.

395

: 00:19:25

And this learning

that should be the focus then

396

: 00:19:29

because the money will come

and the experience will come.

397

: 00:19:32

So my advice for a new a brand new nurse

is you'll get that experience

398

: 00:19:36

and then you can negotiate more

because you have more,

399

: 00:19:40

more of a skill set

and you know you're better valued.

400

: 00:19:45

So I think in the beginning it's

just not always about maybe negotiating.

401

: 00:19:50

Is this about learning?

402

: 00:19:52

And you're there

403

: 00:19:52

and see what

you really want to want to do,

404

: 00:19:54

because some people will start off

in the ICU and they hate it,

405

: 00:19:57

and then they'll come

to the operating room

406

: 00:19:59

and they've had the experience.

407

: 00:20:00

So then they can come and say, well,

I need this amount.

408

: 00:20:03

Like you said, look and see what

your financial and personal goals are

409

: 00:20:07

and they like it better.

410

: 00:20:08

There's not a lot of night shifts

and they're working a normal shift

411

: 00:20:13

and they just like this work in

the operating room is much better.

412

: 00:20:17

So the discharge instructions,

the purpose of that is to in the in

413

: 00:20:22

with the one memorable message

listeners should carry with them.

414

: 00:20:26

If listeners only remember

one thing, nurses deserve to feel valued

415

: 00:20:32

not just with words,

but with compensation, support

416

: 00:20:35

and respect

that reflects the work they do every day.

417

: 00:20:40

One clinical Pearl.

418

: 00:20:42

The purpose is to finish

with the brief educational tip,

419

: 00:20:46

nursing concept or medical takeaway.

420

: 00:20:49

I want you to tell me what a compensation

package is,

421

: 00:20:51

because the way

you throw on these dollars,

422

: 00:20:53

I know your compensation

package is a beautiful it's fat.

423

: 00:20:58

It's so big. It's a beast.

424

: 00:21:00

The definition is the total value

of your employment,

425

: 00:21:03

including salary, benefits, retirement,

paid time

426

: 00:21:07

off, education assistance, shift

differential, and bonuses.

427

: 00:21:12

In plain English,

your alley wage is only one

428

: 00:21:15

part of your job

of what your job is worth.

429

: 00:21:18

That's

where we talk about the balance. Yes.

430

: 00:21:21

Well, thank you guys so much for tuning in

to this episode of Shift Happens.

431

: 00:21:26

Please leave us some anonymous admissions

or questions

432

: 00:21:30

you have on our YouTube comments.

433

: 00:21:33

Instagram DMs TikTok DMs.

434

: 00:21:36

And please

follow and listen to us on Shift Happens

435

: 00:21:40

Podcast, Apple Podcasts, Spotify.

436

: 00:21:43

And while you guys are clocking out, I'm

going to stay after

437

: 00:21:48

because I have the chart.

438

: 00:21:49

But really, I'm

just going to steal all these ones

439

: 00:21:51

because I'm just I'm

just a nurse practitioner.

440

: 00:21:55

I ain't no Crna working 80 days a week.

441

: 00:21:57

So sometimes we got to do what we gotta

do. Okay.

442

: 00:22:00

Thank you guys.

443

: 00:22:02

Get that money. I am.

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