Step into the world of real estate investing with Jonathan Greene. He shatters traditional cash flow myths and reveals the ultimate investment treasure and how you can achieve it. So listen until the end for an enlightening episode that promises to redefine your approach to real estate and life itself!

Key takeaways to listen for

• [04:44] Significance of appreciation over volume in real estate investing
• [09:49] The problem with new real estate investors and how to solve it
• [16:24] How a mindful approach can redefine success in real estate
• [26:46] Importance of family, legacy, and setting a foundation for future generations
• [32:53] Strategies for becoming a more focused and informed investor

Resources mentioned in this episode

• [23:37] The Wealthy Gardener by John Soforic | Kindle, Hardcover, and Paperback
• [23:55] Zen and the Art of Happiness by Chris Prentiss | Kindle, Hardcover, and Paperback

About Jonathan Greene

Jonathan Greene is a thought leader in the real estate and real estate investing space. He is the host of one of the fastest-growing real estate investing podcasts in the world, Zen and the Art of Real Estate Investing. Jonathan is the Team Leader of Streamlined Properties, brokered by ΓEA⅃, a multi-state team of professional, knowledgeable, and proficient real estate agents built to connect with clients who need agents to understand exactly what they are looking for.

Connect with Jonathan

• Website: Jonathan Greene | Streamlined Properties
• Podcast: Zen and the Art of Real Estate Investing
• Instagram: @trustgreene
• YouTube: Jonathan Greene

Follow Us On Social Media

YouTube: Truly Passive Income

TikTok: @trulypassiveincome

Instagram: @truly_passive_income

Facebook: Truly Passive

Twitter: @trulypassive

Download Our FREE Passive Investor Toolkit

Everything you need to get started in passive investing - Download Here

Links referenced in this episode:

• trustgreen.com

Mentioned in this episode:

Sponsored by Nomad Capital

Looking to invest in self-storage? Nomad Capital converts vacant big-box retail spaces across the Southeast into climate-controlled storage, with a target of 20% annual returns. Our fund combines low leverage and high depreciation for strong growth and valuable tax benefits. By buying properties at deep discounts, we often achieve break-even at just 40% occupancy. Join a proven model in a resilient asset class that continues to deliver, even in today’s market. Learn more at nomadcapital.us/tpi. Accredited investors only.

Jonathan Green: 00:00:42

Most people want to get out of the 9 to 5 and into real estate investing.

Jonathan Green: 00:00:45

And then we were saying in the beginning they end up with two times what a nine to five is and they're making way less money.

Jonathan Green: 00:00:50

I'm not an advocate of leaving your W2.

Jonathan Green: 00:00:52

You just have to figure out how to start doing it slowly.

Neil Henderson: 00:00:55

Welcome to Truly Passive Income.

Neil Henderson: 00:00:57

I'm Neil Henderson.

Clint Harris: 00:00:58

And I'm Clint Harris.

Neil Henderson: 00:00:59

Jonathan Green.

Neil Henderson: 00:01:00

Welcome to Truly Passive Income, sir, It's great to see you.

Jonathan Green: 00:01:03

Yeah, you too, Clint.

Jonathan Green: 00:01:04

Neal, thanks so much for having me on the show.

Jonathan Green: 00:01:06

Appreciate it.

Clint Harris: 00:01:07

Jonathan, why don't you tell us a little bit about your background.

Clint Harris: 00:01:09

I've been looking at your team that you operate, the agents that are on your team.

Clint Harris: 00:01:13

I know that you're invested in a lot of different states.

Clint Harris: 00:01:15

Give us a little bit about your background, how you got started, the journey up to what your strategy is now and all the ups and downs you've been through over the years to get there.

Jonathan Green: 00:01:23

Yeah, that sounds like a lot.

Clint Harris: 00:01:25

It can be.

Clint Harris: 00:01:26

Yeah, exactly right.

Clint Harris: 00:01:27

This will be a five part series.

Jonathan Green: 00:01:29

Yeah.

Jonathan Green: 00:01:29

Just on the, just on the ups and downs.

Jonathan Green: 00:01:31

No, I come from a interesting background in that my dad was an attorney, as was I, but my dad basically grew up with no money.

Jonathan Green: 00:01:40

His dad was an alcoholic gambler.

Jonathan Green: 00:01:41

So every time he got a lot of money, he would lose a lot of money.

Jonathan Green: 00:01:44

But my dad became an attorney, started working for the IRS and just got obsessed with real estate.

Jonathan Green: 00:01:49

And he was just buying real estate from the courthouse steps, you know, in the 70s.

Jonathan Green: 00:01:54

And that's how I grew up.

Jonathan Green: 00:01:55

I was born in 71 and I was out on the road with him looking at properties probably in, you know, the early 70s, walked hundreds of houses before I was 18 and learned all about it.

Jonathan Green: 00:02:06

And he was an opportunity investor, what I call now an asset hunter.

Jonathan Green: 00:02:11

So I kind of learned to do that.

Jonathan Green: 00:02:12

We didn't work on spreadsheets, we didn't have the Internet.

Jonathan Green: 00:02:15

We work foreclosures, rentals.

Jonathan Green: 00:02:17

And he taught me over time how to be a landlord and I continued that even though I went into a legal career as well.

Jonathan Green: 00:02:23

I was always investing on the side, but I was never a high volume investor.

Jonathan Green: 00:02:28

I wasn't someone and still I'm not who count doors.

Jonathan Green: 00:02:30

I never have any idea how many doors generally I have because they don't matter to me.

Jonathan Green: 00:02:34

The cash flow and appreciation really is what matters.

Jonathan Green: 00:02:37

And I was always been an appreciation investor.

Jonathan Green: 00:02:40

And I think because my dad created a situation where I could be so I didn't have to Actively search out cash flow.

Jonathan Green: 00:02:46

And I think that's an important distinction to make.

Jonathan Green: 00:02:49

And then over the years, I actually ended up getting into on market real estate about 10 years ago after a career in law and art and teaching.

Jonathan Green: 00:02:56

And that's kind of propelled this new version of we work with hundreds of investors.

Jonathan Green: 00:03:02

And that's kind of part of my own journey as I've backed off investing just because the last three years have been crazy.

Jonathan Green: 00:03:07

We sold a lot and now I'm still waiting for deals to make sense to me.

Jonathan Green: 00:03:11

And I've started finally at 53, now investing in syndications, which I believe to be the only truly passive income.

Clint Harris: 00:03:19

Hey, throw our tagline and you get bonus points.

Jonathan Green: 00:03:24

Yeah, I know what I'm doing.

Neil Henderson: 00:03:27

Checks in the mail.

Clint Harris: 00:03:29

Jonathan, you mentioned investing for appreciation, which is most young investors.

Jonathan Green: 00:03:33

Every.

Clint Harris: 00:03:33

Everybody's after cash flow.

Clint Harris: 00:03:35

You're chasing cash flow and looking for that financial freedom even at the risk of achieving it and just creating a job for yourself.

Clint Harris: 00:03:41

Right.

Clint Harris: 00:03:42

Being a property manager or locking yourself into.

Clint Harris: 00:03:44

You're getting cash flow off of deals that only work if you're the manager and they don't pencil if you turn it over to somebody else.

Clint Harris: 00:03:50

You mentioned that you were able to skip past that to appreciation.

Clint Harris: 00:03:53

And we all know that appreciation has created more financial independence and generational wealth than cash flow ever will in the history of the world.

Clint Harris: 00:04:01

Like that one piece of property that just appreciates for whatever reason, development around it or Amazon distribution center down the road or you know, a new interstate goes in, whatever it may be, creates so much more wealth than cash flow ever will.

Clint Harris: 00:04:14

It's interesting that you kind of got to skip that because you had a base to work off of and move forward.

Clint Harris: 00:04:20

Neil, hold on.

Clint Harris: 00:04:21

This is a cuckoo clock.

Clint Harris: 00:04:22

I've been down this road before.

Clint Harris: 00:04:23

It'll stop momentarily.

Jonathan Green: 00:04:25

It's over there.

Jonathan Green: 00:04:25

Yeah, it's like 02 on the hour.

Jonathan Green: 00:04:28

I must have set the time wrong.

Jonathan Green: 00:04:29

But I don't have birds.

Jonathan Green: 00:04:30

It's a cuckoo clock that goes off.

Jonathan Green: 00:04:32

Clint was the first time, he's like, what's happening?

Jonathan Green: 00:04:34

Do you have birds flying around?

Clint Harris: 00:04:36

This guy's.

Clint Harris: 00:04:36

He's done so well with real estate.

Clint Harris: 00:04:38

He's in the rainforest right now is what I thought.

Jonathan Green: 00:04:40

Yeah, I am.

Jonathan Green: 00:04:41

This is a fake background and I'm just sitting in meditation position in the middle of a rainforest.

Clint Harris: 00:04:46

Well, let me ask a follow up question on that is how from the way that your dad invested on the courthouse steps and you starting at such a young age, the asset class that you've invested in Specifically looking for appreciation.

Clint Harris: 00:04:58

Now you're in syndication.

Clint Harris: 00:05:00

But tell me about, did that asset class change over your career of investing, or was it always single family or multifamily or apartments or commercial, or what.

Jonathan Green: 00:05:08

Did that journey look like generally?

Jonathan Green: 00:05:10

I've always been a single family investor.

Jonathan Green: 00:05:12

I don't think we've ever actually owned.

Jonathan Green: 00:05:14

We've owned commercial properties, which I like actually more than multifamily for my clients.

Jonathan Green: 00:05:20

I love multifamily.

Jonathan Green: 00:05:21

It's a great option and obviously was more popularized when house hacking became a thing.

Jonathan Green: 00:05:25

But I was always a single family appreciation investor.

Jonathan Green: 00:05:28

Single families get the best appreciation and you have the most scale if you know how to buy right.

Jonathan Green: 00:05:33

And you're what I call like a neighborhood investigator, and you know which parts of the neighborhood are up and coming.

Jonathan Green: 00:05:39

And the funny thing is, you know, you won't find this on a ton of podcasts or on seminars, but I've probably made the most money across the board all on homes that I've lived in.

Jonathan Green: 00:05:50

It's because I'm a really good buyer and I know how to do renovations.

Jonathan Green: 00:05:53

And of course, I turned into a house flipper, but never a volume house flipper, but I know how to buy, I know how to renovate, I know what's going to make money, and I know when to do it.

Jonathan Green: 00:06:01

So sometimes I do what's called backflipping, which is I live in the house for whatever, five years and then I leave and then I fix it up when I've gone to buy another house already, because then I already have the appreciation.

Jonathan Green: 00:06:12

If I needed the money, I could pull a HELOC just to do it.

Jonathan Green: 00:06:15

So anyone can do it.

Jonathan Green: 00:06:16

I just pay cash for the renovation costs, which makes it go quicker.

Neil Henderson: 00:06:20

Jonathan, as Clint hinted, you know, so many investors, when they get in, they're chasing cash flow.

Neil Henderson: 00:06:25

And we see that even with syndications, people are always, well, what's the cash flow?

Neil Henderson: 00:06:30

What's the cash flow?

Neil Henderson: 00:06:31

What's the cash flow?

Neil Henderson: 00:06:32

And it's like, okay, well, that's great, but if we hand you back double your money in five years, and then, okay, we're going to hold the asset, we're going to continue to cash flow, but it's not going to be this huge amount of cash flow, but we just doubled your money in five years.

Neil Henderson: 00:06:47

For me, I always think of cash flow as that's what keeps you alive, that's what keeps the asset paying for itself while the appreciation does its work.

Neil Henderson: 00:06:58

And as you said, you know, you're either counting on the Natural appreciation, as you call it, back flipping, where the natural appreciation has sort of happened, and then you're able to sort of go back and renovate it and pull money out of it.

Neil Henderson: 00:07:10

It's that forced appreciation often that does so much of the work.

Neil Henderson: 00:07:16

Correct?

Jonathan Green: 00:07:17

Yeah.

Jonathan Green: 00:07:17

And even unforced, I mean, there's that famous quote, don't wait to buy real estate.

Jonathan Green: 00:07:21

Buy real estate and wait.

Jonathan Green: 00:07:23

And that's what I did.

Jonathan Green: 00:07:24

I mean, a lot of those houses, why I do backflipping is they're nice when I move in, they need some stuff.

Jonathan Green: 00:07:28

But I can live in a fine.

Jonathan Green: 00:07:29

When my kids were younger, like, we don't have to have a perfect house.

Jonathan Green: 00:07:32

And then after I do it because I have all the windfall, and then I get an extra windfall because I'm renovating into hotter market.

Jonathan Green: 00:07:39

And I think one thing that helped me also was because of the way I grew up, I never had an emotional attachment to real estate.

Jonathan Green: 00:07:45

So, like, if the market's good, I sell my house.

Jonathan Green: 00:07:47

I don't care.

Jonathan Green: 00:07:48

I mean, maybe my kids, it was a little bit more difficult, but that's how I grew up with my dad.

Jonathan Green: 00:07:52

Every time the house was perfect, you know, I had a full court basketball court, you know, and like a pond in front where we could play hockey.

Jonathan Green: 00:07:58

It was like, oh, we're selling.

Jonathan Green: 00:07:59

And then he'd tell me how much money we're making, and I'm like, okay, this is starting to make sense here.

Clint Harris: 00:08:03

Yeah, same, my wife and I moved the first two years.

Clint Harris: 00:08:06

Live in a house for two years, so no capital gains, move on to the next one.

Clint Harris: 00:08:08

We did that four times in the first eight years of our marriage.

Clint Harris: 00:08:11

We just built a house now that we've been in for a year and a half.

Clint Harris: 00:08:14

And Abby came home the other day with plans for a piece of land she found.

Clint Harris: 00:08:17

We're going to build and we're going to wait till September and sell this.

Clint Harris: 00:08:20

And, you know, end of the day, I got two young boys.

Clint Harris: 00:08:22

And part of you wants to create a home, but the other part of you is like, you're creating so much opportunity.

Clint Harris: 00:08:27

There's a couple hundred thousand dollars in equity.

Clint Harris: 00:08:29

It's just a house.

Clint Harris: 00:08:30

The home is the people that's in it move on.

Clint Harris: 00:08:32

And there's two trains of thought there, but I get it.

Clint Harris: 00:08:35

I mean, once you're trained to think like that, it's hard to unthink that way.

Jonathan Green: 00:08:38

Yeah.

Jonathan Green: 00:08:38

I mean, obviously, you know, with kids changing school districts, that's an issue.

Jonathan Green: 00:08:42

But if you're in the same School district and you, the next room is better.

Jonathan Green: 00:08:46

They don't.

Jonathan Green: 00:08:47

I mean, if your next house is cooler, they're going to be fine with it.

Jonathan Green: 00:08:51

It's just kind of adjusting.

Jonathan Green: 00:08:53

And I think I understood that when I was younger, we would move to a house and then we would start to renovate and then we would have the same things that we had.

Jonathan Green: 00:09:00

I wanted to go back though, on one thing, because you guys were talking about the cash flow versus appreciation thing.

Jonathan Green: 00:09:05

And we both know if you're obsessively after cash flow, great, you're going to end up buying D to D + properties.

Jonathan Green: 00:09:12

They cash flow.

Jonathan Green: 00:09:13

They cash flow for a reason, because they're hiding a bunch of maintenance and they usually have difficult tenants across the board.

Jonathan Green: 00:09:18

So like you were saying before, Clint, that's going to sign you up for your second nine to five, which you're not going to handle.

Jonathan Green: 00:09:23

Those are the properties that most people can't handle.

Jonathan Green: 00:09:26

And that's the least passive investment possible is multifamily or apartment buildings and DT plus areas.

Jonathan Green: 00:09:31

Because if you have to pay for property management, you're going to pay a lot.

Jonathan Green: 00:09:34

You're not paying, you know, 10% because nobody wants to manage those properties.

Clint Harris: 00:09:39

That's a very, very good point.

Clint Harris: 00:09:40

That's a lesson that I learned the hard way over about an eight or nine year period.

Clint Harris: 00:09:44

So if I knew you, then you could have saved me almost a decade of heartache.

Clint Harris: 00:09:48

Let me ask you this, and I'm not fishing for an answer here, but everybody has a lot.

Clint Harris: 00:09:52

We've seen a lot of people have a different journey and kind of end up.

Clint Harris: 00:09:55

You said you're now investing into syndications, but traditionally you've always done single family homes.

Clint Harris: 00:10:00

You have an understanding of that.

Clint Harris: 00:10:01

That's like a generational understanding from watching everything you basically learned, everything that your dad learned through his career, you picked up right there and kind of kept going.

Clint Harris: 00:10:10

So from that single family journey and then into a more active career of selling properties, how did you end up on syndication?

Clint Harris: 00:10:18

And are you still looking at the same type of assets with what you traditionally look at in the syndication?

Clint Harris: 00:10:22

But why are you looking that and willing to kind of give over the decision making ability when you've been so good at that?

Jonathan Green: 00:10:28

Yeah, well, think of it like this.

Jonathan Green: 00:10:30

I mean, I think everybody who starts in real estate investing thinks that they're chasing financial freedom, but what they're really chasing is time freedom.

Jonathan Green: 00:10:37

I've pretty much achieved time freedom.

Jonathan Green: 00:10:39

I don't have to do any of the things that I do.

Jonathan Green: 00:10:41

I really am passionate about what I'm doing in all aspects of real estate.

Jonathan Green: 00:10:45

So for me, I'm looking for more avenues where I can find an operator who I trust.

Jonathan Green: 00:10:50

And like you were saying before, Neil, I'm glad when I get a monthly check on this indication.

Jonathan Green: 00:10:54

And I'm just invested in my first one now.

Jonathan Green: 00:10:56

But I'm after the long haul because I'm patient.

Jonathan Green: 00:10:59

And the problem with real estate investors in general and the way that all of the marketing goes out to them, it's like quick buck, quick buck.

Jonathan Green: 00:11:05

And real estate is like not a quick buck.

Jonathan Green: 00:11:07

That's how flippers lose all their money.

Jonathan Green: 00:11:09

I'm a really good flipper, but I'll flip 1, 2 a year lately less because there's nothing to do.

Jonathan Green: 00:11:14

But I'll make 180 or 200k on a flip because I know how to buy the house, I know what to do and I know how to leverage the relationships I built in the on market business.

Jonathan Green: 00:11:24

I buy most of my deals off the MLS because the wholesalers in my area are a disaster.

Jonathan Green: 00:11:28

The numbers don't even come close to working.

Jonathan Green: 00:11:31

And the problem.

Jonathan Green: 00:11:32

So if you just take this and other people may have this problem across the country.

Jonathan Green: 00:11:35

I'm in New Jersey.

Jonathan Green: 00:11:36

We've been like a steaming hot state for real estate for years.

Jonathan Green: 00:11:40

Years.

Jonathan Green: 00:11:40

I mean like 20, 30, 40 bids for regular homebuyers.

Jonathan Green: 00:11:44

And the problem now is that all of the investment properties being looked at by single family home buyers who have terrible agents who give them bad advice and tell them this isn't that big of a renovation.

Jonathan Green: 00:11:55

And those are the homes that I used to buy to renovate.

Jonathan Green: 00:11:57

I can't buy them because I'm going against people who are going to pay way more than me.

Jonathan Green: 00:12:00

I'm 100,000 lower than them.

Jonathan Green: 00:12:02

And I can hear the conversations when I'm on the showings with an agent saying, you know, yeah, the basement looks okay.

Jonathan Green: 00:12:08

And I'm like, I mean, are you kidding?

Jonathan Green: 00:12:09

There's a structural problem here.

Jonathan Green: 00:12:10

Cost like 27 grand.

Jonathan Green: 00:12:12

I know this, they don't know that.

Jonathan Green: 00:12:14

And I think like, so that's why I've really taken my foot off the pedal and just kind of relax into looking into what really is truly a bit more passive, which is syndications.

Jonathan Green: 00:12:23

ago, but it was built in like: 2017

Jonathan Green: 00:12:31

So I'm hedging my bets into the operator who I knew really well.

Jonathan Green: 00:12:35

And those are the type of things that I'm looking for.

Jonathan Green: 00:12:37

I still like flipping, but I just never want it to be a volume flipper because esthetically it's fun for me and it's not aesthetic of them making the same thing in every single property.

Neil Henderson: 00:12:46

Jonathan, you talk about houses that you've owned once you realize that they've gained a bunch of value, like, all right, well, I'm going to sell it.

Neil Henderson: 00:12:53

The market's hot, it's time to sell.

Neil Henderson: 00:12:55

Well, right now one of the challenges is what do you sell into?

Neil Henderson: 00:12:59

The whole market's hot.

Neil Henderson: 00:13:01

Interest rates are high and that's part of what's sort of frozen the market is that housing prices are high and interest rates are high.

Neil Henderson: 00:13:09

You're savvy enough that you're just buying a distressed property that you're buying into or what are you doing?

Jonathan Green: 00:13:14

No, I mean, in New Jersey now, like I'm putting out offers every week.

Jonathan Green: 00:13:18

There's 30, 40 offers on every home they're selling for 500 to a million over asking.

Jonathan Green: 00:13:23

People are going to, oh, that's not true.

Jonathan Green: 00:13:24

I will show you the data.

Jonathan Green: 00:13:25

It happens in Montclair, New Jersey.

Jonathan Green: 00:13:27

It happens in a lot of areas.

Jonathan Green: 00:13:28

I mean, they do price low on purpose, but like you're seeing the scale of these things and cash buyers are at about like 37% of all of these buys.

Jonathan Green: 00:13:36

So there's just a ton of New York City money coming into my area.

Jonathan Green: 00:13:39

So for my area, I could turn and sell.

Jonathan Green: 00:13:41

I'm finally in a place again where I am now, where I'm comfortable.

Jonathan Green: 00:13:44

I moved out of a busier area in a more rural area of Morris County.

Jonathan Green: 00:13:48

My taxes are half what they used to be when I was in Essex County.

Jonathan Green: 00:13:51

So I'm very comfortable.

Jonathan Green: 00:13:52

I have no need to sell now.

Jonathan Green: 00:13:54

Even if the market was good, it doesn't propel me because like you were saying, I don't really need to go buy into a new rate myself.

Jonathan Green: 00:14:02

And that's where single family homebuyers who are own a property but they need a new property are really stuck.

Jonathan Green: 00:14:07

They're sitting on a 2.75 rate and to sell it, they do great.

Jonathan Green: 00:14:11

But like you were saying, they need to buy back in with a 6, 7, 5 and also upgrade and be in competition against 30 other people.

Jonathan Green: 00:14:18

So it's a very difficult market where I am.

Jonathan Green: 00:14:20

And of course I'm looking out of state.

Jonathan Green: 00:14:22

I've been an out of state investor for, you know, more than 30 years.

Jonathan Green: 00:14:26

But a lot of those were short term rentals and we were doing short term rentals more than 20 years ago in different areas, before Airbnb existed.

Jonathan Green: 00:14:34

I still like that model and I like the new midterm rental model.

Jonathan Green: 00:14:37

For me, it's just an active management thing and where the deals are.

Jonathan Green: 00:14:41

So I think one thing that's important, that goes to the question that you just asked me is a lot of people will just look at real estate and they'll watch the news and they'll see like, oh, nationally, like, it's a tough time, but if you don't know your local market, you're never going to be a good investor.

Jonathan Green: 00:14:55

And every single town is a different market.

Jonathan Green: 00:14:58

So for somebody to say, like, you know, it's not going well, Topeka, Kansas, or Evansville, Indiana, or Salem, Oregon, like, these are all completely different markets that don't comply with what's on the national news, because that's all fake, you know, anyway, from either side, it's not correct.

Jonathan Green: 00:15:15

So I think that's what's important.

Jonathan Green: 00:15:17

If you're a brand new investor or if you're savvy and you want to investigate a new market, just figure out everything about the market and look in places where you're going to find information on where the development is, the action plans for towns.

Jonathan Green: 00:15:29

You'll know way more than any investor who's just kind of taking a brief look at Zillow.

Jonathan Green: 00:15:34

And I think that's where the play is.

Jonathan Green: 00:15:35

People get scared off by headlines and, you know, short term rentals are dead and investing is terrible.

Jonathan Green: 00:15:41

I mean, the multifamily is in trouble, but there's still people buying multifamily because they're buying it from the people who are in trouble.

Clint Harris: 00:15:48

Big times.

Clint Harris: 00:15:49

Let me ask you this.

Clint Harris: 00:15:50

In terms of real estate, you've pretty much done it all.

Clint Harris: 00:15:52

You know, the ins and outs.

Clint Harris: 00:15:53

You're in your market better than anybody else is.

Clint Harris: 00:15:56

You know, you're not getting pulled up.

Clint Harris: 00:15:59

And when everybody else is buying high, you know that it's the time to just sit back and wait for something else to change.

Clint Harris: 00:16:05

But your podcast is called Zen and the Art of Real Estate.

Clint Harris: 00:16:08

And so one of the things that I found very interesting is that a lot of the conversations are deeper than real estate or about things that are bigger than real estate.

Clint Harris: 00:16:16

One of the things that I love about hosting a podcast, I'm not particularly good at it, Neil's great at it, but you get pulled up words by the people you get a chance to talk to.

Clint Harris: 00:16:26

Like you're sitting here giving us, you know, 30, 40 minutes of your condensed life experience.

Clint Harris: 00:16:30

And everything you've been through, and you're transferring knowledge that you got from your dad, right?

Clint Harris: 00:16:34

And, like, that's unbelievably powerful with the podcast that you do.

Clint Harris: 00:16:38

Zen in the Art of Real Estate, like, what are some of the things that you try to focus on that are bigger than real estate?

Clint Harris: 00:16:44

What are some of the things that you may have learned from that?

Clint Harris: 00:16:47

And I find that I'm being shaped by the people that we get a chance to interact with in a very meaningful way.

Clint Harris: 00:16:53

I'd really like to hear your perspective on that, specifically with Zen and the Art of Real Estate and the focus that you try to have on some things that are bigger than just the nuts and bolts of real estate.

Jonathan Green: 00:17:01

Yeah, I appreciate that.

Jonathan Green: 00:17:03

I mean, I think I went through a personal journey in my 40s that was spurred on by being too focused on business.

Jonathan Green: 00:17:10

I was sitting at my dinner table with my two kids at the time.

Jonathan Green: 00:17:14

I had been divorced for, well, more than 10 years at the time.

Jonathan Green: 00:17:17

And I remember a client called and needed something, and I said, oh, I have to take this.

Jonathan Green: 00:17:22

It's important.

Jonathan Green: 00:17:22

And, like, right when I said that, I just was like, that's the stupidest thing I've ever said.

Jonathan Green: 00:17:26

And the next day, I deleted my team with my partner, gave her the whole team, quit real estate, put my license away, so I couldn't use it on purpose.

Jonathan Green: 00:17:34

And all I did for a year was work on myself, personal growth.

Jonathan Green: 00:17:37

You know, I was still looking at investments.

Jonathan Green: 00:17:39

I was just trying to get into a more mindful place.

Jonathan Green: 00:17:42

And that's what eventually led to this podcast.

Jonathan Green: 00:17:44

I actually started, during that year, two other podcasts that were not based on real estate.

Jonathan Green: 00:17:50

And when I came back, I wanted to create, like, a mindful approach to real estate investing, because if you look across the board at what's being advertised, you know, on social media, it's kind of ludicrous.

Jonathan Green: 00:18:01

You know, there's, like, babies advertising like, that they can help someone scale to 100 doors when, like, they literally don't know anything.

Jonathan Green: 00:18:09

Not everybody.

Jonathan Green: 00:18:09

There's some really great advice out there, but I still think that the whole advertising is making even smart people, like, overdo it a little.

Jonathan Green: 00:18:18

And I've always just been someone who just gives out information for free.

Jonathan Green: 00:18:21

I could care less what happens.

Jonathan Green: 00:18:23

But, like, you were talking about this medium, the medium of podcasting, so amazing because we can have this talk.

Jonathan Green: 00:18:28

Someone, like you said, could just hear one thing, and it may change their journey.

Jonathan Green: 00:18:31

We'll never even know that it did, but it's possible.

Jonathan Green: 00:18:35

And Knowing that it's possible is why I have mine.

Jonathan Green: 00:18:37

And I'm sure part of the reason why you guys have yours.

Jonathan Green: 00:18:39

It's like you just don't know the impact that you can have.

Jonathan Green: 00:18:42

And why should I keep all this information to myself?

Jonathan Green: 00:18:45

Especially when I'm like, always been known as a no nonsense, straightforward, no BS type of person.

Jonathan Green: 00:18:52

So, you know, when I kind of started getting back into trying to help people with investing, I would just go in the forums of bigger pockets and answer questions.

Jonathan Green: 00:19:00

And I still do 10 years later, because, like, the stuff that's being put in there, like the answer, some of them are just idiotic.

Jonathan Green: 00:19:07

Not all of them, but, like, not everyone's doing it for the right reason.

Jonathan Green: 00:19:10

So I've always considered myself like a voice of reason.

Jonathan Green: 00:19:12

And that goes to what the podcast is.

Jonathan Green: 00:19:14

It's digging deep on what people's whys are, why they do it, how they did it, what they're looking to do, and how other people can take just like a little bit more of a relaxed approach.

Jonathan Green: 00:19:24

Like, stop worrying about doors.

Jonathan Green: 00:19:26

What's the obsession with doors?

Jonathan Green: 00:19:28

If you have 100 doors that are all only cash flowing, $100 each, or let's just say 10 doors that cash flow, $100, one furnace breaks in one of those 10 doors and you're not making a profit on all of them for like four or five years.

Jonathan Green: 00:19:41

So, like, what's your 10 doors worth?

Jonathan Green: 00:19:43

What if I have one door that's a short term rental and it's making like seven grand a month?

Jonathan Green: 00:19:49

I'm doing better and I have one door.

Jonathan Green: 00:19:51

It's a vanity metric.

Jonathan Green: 00:19:52

And I think that's part of the reason why people are falling prey to that.

Neil Henderson: 00:19:56

I want to get you to expand on something you said, because I have a feeling there's a good story behind it.

Neil Henderson: 00:20:01

And you said mindful real estate investing.

Neil Henderson: 00:20:05

What do you mean by that?

Jonathan Green: 00:20:06

Yeah, I think more focus, less ego.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:09

A lot of real estate investors are fueled by ego.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:13

I want to get this, I want to get that.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:14

I want to drive a Lamborghini.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:16

I want to tell everyone I have a plane.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:18

That's fine.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:18

Like, if you have all that money, that's great also.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:21

But not everyone who drives a Lamborghini paid cash for it.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:24

You know, a lot of those are leased because it looks good.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:26

And no offense, like, if you like Lamborghinis, go for it.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:29

I don't care either way.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:30

I grew up with a dad who was more like a millionaire next door philosophy.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:35

Like my dad, he liked houses and cars, everything Else, he was so cheap.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:40

That's just how he was.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:41

So he would get out of his nice car, and he would have on, like, tennis shorts and, like, a tank top.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:46

And everyone's like, who's that guy?

Jonathan Green: 00:20:47

I'm like, what do you mean, who's.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:48

That's my dad.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:49

Like, that's your dad.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:50

They expected him to, like, get out in, like, a coat and an ascot.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:53

And the thing is, I grew up in a way that nobody still, to this day, they don't know how many assets I have, how much money I have.

Jonathan Green: 00:20:59

Nobody knows anything because I don't care to tell anybody that if I can go on a podcast, people are going to be able to hear me and, like, okay, that guy knows what he's talking about.

Jonathan Green: 00:21:08

They don't have to like me.

Jonathan Green: 00:21:09

But nobody's going to say, I don't know what I'm talking about.

Jonathan Green: 00:21:11

That would be silly.

Jonathan Green: 00:21:12

And that would be their ego being.

Jonathan Green: 00:21:14

Fighting against themselves instead of just being like, oh, I don't particularly want to do his strategy, but he clearly knows what he's talking about.

Clint Harris: 00:21:21

I fought that battle myself.

Clint Harris: 00:21:22

Like, I'm a very competitive guy, and I have an ego.

Jonathan Green: 00:21:25

Me, too.

Clint Harris: 00:21:27

Most of us are, on some level, right?

Jonathan Green: 00:21:29

Some would claim I have a giant ego.

Jonathan Green: 00:21:31

I just don't agree.

Clint Harris: 00:21:34

I think most people would say the same thing about me, and unfortunately, I have to agree.

Clint Harris: 00:21:38

But the older I get, I am constantly being humbled, and I think that's a good thing.

Clint Harris: 00:21:43

Eventually.

Clint Harris: 00:21:44

I think you.

Clint Harris: 00:21:44

The people you surround yourself, tend to kind of rub off some of the rough edges if you allow them, and life will do that, too.

Clint Harris: 00:21:50

But I've been caught up in, like, the number of doors and where the property is and what it looks like and everything there.

Clint Harris: 00:21:56

And I think that part of the journey is hopefully getting to the point where it doesn't matter about stuff.

Clint Harris: 00:22:01

It doesn't matter about numbers.

Clint Harris: 00:22:03

It matters about the quality of life, the time that you spend and the places you go with the people that you love.

Clint Harris: 00:22:08

But that's something that sometimes is easier said than done.

Clint Harris: 00:22:11

It takes a while to get there.

Jonathan Green: 00:22:13

Yeah.

Jonathan Green: 00:22:14

I think, like, one place that it comes for it really depends a lot on how everybody grew up.

Jonathan Green: 00:22:19

I found that a lot of people who didn't grow up with a lot of a scarcity mentality.

Jonathan Green: 00:22:23

So their will to get more is almost like proving their parents wrong or something like that.

Jonathan Green: 00:22:28

Especially for people who came to the country and their parents wanted them to do something else.

Jonathan Green: 00:22:32

They got into real estate investing.

Jonathan Green: 00:22:34

I had a lot of guests like that.

Jonathan Green: 00:22:35

And they're like, in the beginning, I really was.

Jonathan Green: 00:22:36

I was just trying to prove that I could do it.

Jonathan Green: 00:22:39

I mean, I have a healthy ego.

Jonathan Green: 00:22:41

But I think there's a difference between confidence and like, egoism.

Jonathan Green: 00:22:44

And I think that people with very like, kind of weak self confidence, they think everybody is an asshole, you know, just because they're doing well, it's okay to do well.

Jonathan Green: 00:22:55

I'm not out there telling everyone what I'm doing.

Jonathan Green: 00:22:57

But even if somebody is, I can just shut off their channel.

Jonathan Green: 00:23:00

I don't have to like, be mad at them.

Jonathan Green: 00:23:02

I don't have time for that, you know, And I think the older that I get and the older my kids get, the more I realize, like, almost none of this stuff matters.

Jonathan Green: 00:23:09

You know, My job is to provide for my kids.

Jonathan Green: 00:23:11

Real estate is a great vehicle for me to be able to do that.

Jonathan Green: 00:23:14

But I also had to learn, like, I better really be passionate about what I like.

Jonathan Green: 00:23:19

Most people want to get out of the 9 to 5 and into real estate investing.

Jonathan Green: 00:23:22

And then like you were saying in the beginning, they end up with two times what a 9 to 5 is, and they're making way less money.

Jonathan Green: 00:23:28

So I'm not an advocate of like leaving your W2.

Jonathan Green: 00:23:31

You just have to figure out how to start doing it slowly.

Jonathan Green: 00:23:34

But people want everything too quick.

Jonathan Green: 00:23:37

You know, that's why microwaves were invented.

Jonathan Green: 00:23:39

I mean, honestly, it will cook on the stove and not that much longer.

Clint Harris: 00:23:43

Let me ask you this, that this is not something that we ask everybody.

Clint Harris: 00:23:45

But I think the way that you're talking about this and being mindful and putting your family first, and it's not something that comes naturally, especially to a lot of younger real estate investors.

Clint Harris: 00:23:55

So do you have recommendations for books, contents, or the types of relationships that you should be looking for or the types of conversations you should be having with people around you to put people in a situation where they're looking at things that have greater significance than just money or real estate success.

Jonathan Green: 00:24:12

There's one book that I think probably nobody's heard of that my preferred attorney, Ashley Molson, recommended for me.

Jonathan Green: 00:24:19

It's called the Wealthy Gardener by John Safarek.

Jonathan Green: 00:24:21

It's about real estate investing, but it's also about gardening.

Jonathan Green: 00:24:25

And it's a very, very mindful approach to it.

Jonathan Green: 00:24:28

Definitely one of my favorite books.

Jonathan Green: 00:24:30

I'm so thankful that she recommended it because her and I think the same.

Jonathan Green: 00:24:33

And I think a lot of the books that I read are on mindfulness.

Jonathan Green: 00:24:37

Zen and the Art of Happiness by Chris Prentice.

Jonathan Green: 00:24:39

Was like a big life changer for me.

Jonathan Green: 00:24:41

And in that book, it just goes down to literally one part in that book.

Jonathan Green: 00:24:45

I can see you nodding, Neil, so you're going to know this part.

Jonathan Green: 00:24:47

Chris Prentice is walking in the woods with his son and he falls into a well and he breaks his back, and he's lying at the bottom of a 20 foot well.

Jonathan Green: 00:24:56

He can't move at all.

Jonathan Green: 00:24:57

And the first thing he thought is, I wonder what good is going to come from this?

Jonathan Green: 00:25:00

And when I started to act like that, instead of the way I used to act, which was rigid, I was a fighter.

Jonathan Green: 00:25:06

I was a trial attorney for 10 years.

Jonathan Green: 00:25:09

All I was a prosecutor for seven and a criminal defense attorney for two.

Jonathan Green: 00:25:13

So all I did was argue all day.

Jonathan Green: 00:25:16

And it took a toll on me.

Jonathan Green: 00:25:17

And it took.

Jonathan Green: 00:25:18

It's hard to come home from fighting over life sentences and all of these things and then, like, play with babies.

Jonathan Green: 00:25:24

And that's why I left that job.

Jonathan Green: 00:25:26

And also, it's a whole perspective thing.

Jonathan Green: 00:25:28

My mom passed away when I was 20.

Jonathan Green: 00:25:30

My dad passed away at 33.

Jonathan Green: 00:25:32

So this is part of my job to take on his legacy.

Jonathan Green: 00:25:35

I mean, my podcast, I talk about my dad all the time.

Jonathan Green: 00:25:38

And I think that it's important.

Jonathan Green: 00:25:40

You know, I didn't have as much time with my mom, but my dad would look down and be like, wow, he turned this into something different because this wasn't like, my dad wouldn't have had a podcast.

Jonathan Green: 00:25:48

You know, he was like, very under the radar.

Jonathan Green: 00:25:52

But I think that's what I learned from him.

Jonathan Green: 00:25:54

And I think that the mindful approach and things that I can take from books, it's like, I do read all the real estate books because I get a lot of good tips out there, but I'm trying to balance those with more books on mindfulness that can really change the way I look at the overall scope of things.

Jonathan Green: 00:26:09

So like you said, if I see a shiny object, somebody like me is like, I don't have no interest to me.

Jonathan Green: 00:26:15

Like, I have other stuff to do.

Jonathan Green: 00:26:17

And I have a focus.

Jonathan Green: 00:26:18

I have a laser focus.

Jonathan Green: 00:26:19

It does help me get through, but I had to work to get there.

Neil Henderson: 00:26:23

My dad was a terrible real estate investor.

Neil Henderson: 00:26:25

He would tell me he was one of the world's worst landlords.

Neil Henderson: 00:26:28

He got into it in the 80s, basically when it was a tax break for people with high incomes before the tax code changed.

Neil Henderson: 00:26:36

And, you know, he was always having to chase his tenants for rent.

Neil Henderson: 00:26:39

I had a very different experience, Jonathan, as far as the joys of landlording, he would drag me to the properties, and I'd have to help him redo the roof or, you know, do the maintenance.

Neil Henderson: 00:26:49

I mean, it's just all terrible.

Neil Henderson: 00:26:51

And so it was very funny when I started getting into real estate, he kind of rolled his eyes and was just like, oh, God, you know, what are you doing?

Neil Henderson: 00:26:59

didn't get into it until mid: 2000

Neil Henderson: 00:27:03

It's a very different world then.

Neil Henderson: 00:27:05

And I'll never forget, it was a very moving moment for me when I had gotten him into a multifamily syndication, and it was going well, and he.

Neil Henderson: 00:27:16

We were sitting down somewhere, and just out of the blue, he said, you know, you're pretty smart at this stuff.

Neil Henderson: 00:27:21

And you're right.

Neil Henderson: 00:27:22

But I don't know where I was going with that.

Neil Henderson: 00:27:24

But it just made me.

Neil Henderson: 00:27:25

When you start talking about your dad, it made me think of it.

Jonathan Green: 00:27:27

Yeah, I mean, I think we always want to take from our parents and then do better and make them proud.

Jonathan Green: 00:27:32

And I think, you know, you were talking about how you used to go to properties.

Jonathan Green: 00:27:35

My dad was just an unusual bird.

Jonathan Green: 00:27:37

He was way, way ahead of his time.

Jonathan Green: 00:27:39

He did used to drag me to the properties, but he dragged them to me so I could meet the tenants.

Jonathan Green: 00:27:44

So I knew all the tenants in every single building.

Jonathan Green: 00:27:47

Commercial, all of them.

Jonathan Green: 00:27:48

You know, we owned this one building where there was an electronics store, and we would go there every time you pick me up on the weekend, and I would just get a video game, but I knew the tenants.

Jonathan Green: 00:27:57

And so when I came home from college, actually at the end of high school, when I would be there for the summers or in college, when I came home for the summers, I always worked in my dad's law office.

Jonathan Green: 00:28:06

And he would just put the ledger on the table, and he's like, well, here's the rental ledger.

Jonathan Green: 00:28:10

You know, there'd be 10, 15 properties on there.

Jonathan Green: 00:28:12

And I'd say, well, how come there's no marks?

Jonathan Green: 00:28:14

He's like, well, they haven't paid in six months as well.

Jonathan Green: 00:28:17

What are you doing?

Jonathan Green: 00:28:17

Like, how does this work?

Jonathan Green: 00:28:18

I don't understand.

Jonathan Green: 00:28:19

How are you supposed to get money?

Jonathan Green: 00:28:20

He's like, well, I'm nice.

Jonathan Green: 00:28:21

You know, they're struggling.

Jonathan Green: 00:28:23

If you can get the money, I'll give you half of it.

Jonathan Green: 00:28:25

And I was like, this sounds great.

Jonathan Green: 00:28:28

So I started to figure out, one, it's not that easy, and two, you can't treat tenants like, hey, just give me the money.

Jonathan Green: 00:28:35

They don't have the money.

Jonathan Green: 00:28:36

So I actually figured out a way to start having them make to pay weekly so they wouldn't spend their income.

Jonathan Green: 00:28:42

And slowly, over time, we got their money back.

Jonathan Green: 00:28:44

So I ended up with a bunch of video game money.

Jonathan Green: 00:28:46

So my dad was definitely a teacher.

Jonathan Green: 00:28:50

But I also had no rules growing up from my mom or my dad.

Jonathan Green: 00:28:53

I just didn't really do anything bad.

Jonathan Green: 00:28:55

I just was let loose.

Jonathan Green: 00:28:56

And I think I was in that context, I was also let loose and available to be involved in real estate from five years old or younger on.

Jonathan Green: 00:29:04

And money, he was free to tell me, like, hey, try this out.

Jonathan Green: 00:29:08

He put money into an account at Merrill lynch when I was like 60.

Jonathan Green: 00:29:11

And he said, buy some stocks, you know, talk to their broker.

Jonathan Green: 00:29:14

Buy some stocks.

Jonathan Green: 00:29:14

And I ended up making a lot of money.

Jonathan Green: 00:29:16

And I was like, I was just buying stocks that I would do research.

Jonathan Green: 00:29:19

There was no Internet.

Jonathan Green: 00:29:20

I used to look through the newspaper like a box score, and I would look at the companies that I liked.

Jonathan Green: 00:29:25

And I started to figure it out at 16.

Jonathan Green: 00:29:27

You know, I was doing this in my bedroom because none of my friends would be interested in this.

Jonathan Green: 00:29:31

They all wanted to go play more basketball.

Jonathan Green: 00:29:32

But these are the things that he made it open for me to talk about.

Jonathan Green: 00:29:36

Money, which is, I think, where a lot of people struggle.

Jonathan Green: 00:29:38

They have a bad relationship with money, so they want to hoard it.

Jonathan Green: 00:29:42

And then when you hoard it, you end up making bad decisions because you're trying to get too much too quickly.

Clint Harris: 00:29:47

And they're amazing how those lessons, even when you're really young, stick with you.

Clint Harris: 00:29:51

My wife and I were married for seven years before we had kids.

Clint Harris: 00:29:53

And now I've got a four year old and a one year old.

Clint Harris: 00:29:55

He's turning one this Saturday.

Clint Harris: 00:29:57

I think about that a lot.

Clint Harris: 00:29:58

So this is a really cool conversation to have.

Clint Harris: 00:30:01

It's very formative early.

Clint Harris: 00:30:03

I think we don't talk about that stuff nearly enough.

Clint Harris: 00:30:06

Not because we care that much that our kids have that much money throughout their life, but it does create options and choices.

Clint Harris: 00:30:12

And I think most people fall into a trap of trading the best years of their life to somebody else in exchange for money so they can buy things just to keep food on the table, you know.

Clint Harris: 00:30:20

So, like, you hope that you create a situation where your kids can be successful enough that they have enough money to have options, and then a freedom of, like an independence of purpose where they can choose what comes next.

Clint Harris: 00:30:32

And then you just hope that you've instilled enough character and morality that they make choices that are best for them, best for their community, best for the people that they love.

Clint Harris: 00:30:40

And around them and don't just turn into a degenerate, which is my hope.

Clint Harris: 00:30:46

But, yeah, that's the goal.

Clint Harris: 00:30:47

What a cool way to share, you two guys having those lessons very early from your dads, that it's still something you think about and talk about now.

Clint Harris: 00:30:52

So I appreciate that.

Jonathan Green: 00:30:54

Yeah.

Jonathan Green: 00:30:54

And I mean, just think about the title of your podcast, Truly Passive Income.

Jonathan Green: 00:30:57

I mean, what people are really tracing again is it's time freedom.

Jonathan Green: 00:31:01

They want the passive income so they can do what they want.

Jonathan Green: 00:31:03

So the money making it on the side.

Jonathan Green: 00:31:05

And what do you want the time for?

Jonathan Green: 00:31:07

I mean, hopefully it's not to go out and party.

Jonathan Green: 00:31:09

Most people are chasing it because they have kids and a family that they would like to spend more time and they're trying to stop trying to get out of the grind.

Jonathan Green: 00:31:16

So, I mean, like, your goal really is around family, even if, like, for someone who doesn't have kids, they want to spend time with their parents.

Jonathan Green: 00:31:23

Because if you take from my lesson, they're not going to be around forever.

Jonathan Green: 00:31:26

You know, you never know what's going to happen around the corner.

Jonathan Green: 00:31:29

And I think, again, that's part of my journey in mindfulness.

Jonathan Green: 00:31:31

And you have to make investments that are assets.

Jonathan Green: 00:31:35

So I always call myself an asset hunter because I'm looking at the asset.

Jonathan Green: 00:31:38

I don't use spreadsheets.

Jonathan Green: 00:31:39

I only use them when I'm flipping just to see how much money I could make.

Jonathan Green: 00:31:42

I'm not chasing that.

Jonathan Green: 00:31:44

I'm chasing an asset that I look at and I'm like, I really like to own this.

Jonathan Green: 00:31:48

This house is cool, or this has potential, or this is going to be a good rental, but it has to be something with multiple options that I can do and always appreciate again.

Jonathan Green: 00:31:58

And I was fortunate enough not to have to chase cash flow because my dad built up enough for me not to have to worry.

Jonathan Green: 00:32:03

And I've definitely done that for my kids.

Jonathan Green: 00:32:05

But it doesn't mean that you should make bad investments because of cash flow, because we already told you the horror story of what's going to happen.

Jonathan Green: 00:32:12

And nine times out of 10, that is what's going to happen.

Jonathan Green: 00:32:14

You're going to get a second job and you're going to get a bad property.

Jonathan Green: 00:32:17

And look, there's very good D to D + investors, but they know what they're doing.

Jonathan Green: 00:32:21

You know, they know that they are going to force appreciation, like you said before, and they know how to do quick rehabilitation.

Jonathan Green: 00:32:27

They know the contractors in those neighborhoods who are willing to go into a D plus property, knock out the rehab quickly and get out.

Jonathan Green: 00:32:33

But you can't just do that from afar and think like, hey, I have 50,000 to burn.

Jonathan Green: 00:32:38

You know, let me just invest in Detroit.

Jonathan Green: 00:32:39

And nothing against Detroit, Detroit's a great market.

Jonathan Green: 00:32:42

But just like Philadelphia or other cities, you better know what you're doing.

Jonathan Green: 00:32:46

It's a block by block thing to know where things are changing.

Jonathan Green: 00:32:49

And if you don't know, someone's going to sell you on a quote turnkey that is on the wrong block and you're never going to make any money.

Neil Henderson: 00:32:56

Clint and I often say we see this over and over again, that in order to be a successful real estate investor, I need accommodation.

Neil Henderson: 00:33:01

You need some of these things.

Neil Henderson: 00:33:03

You need time, experience and money.

Neil Henderson: 00:33:05

And often people have got money, but they don't have time.

Neil Henderson: 00:33:08

And without time, they can't get experience.

Neil Henderson: 00:33:11

And that's the kind of people that get sold on.

Neil Henderson: 00:33:13

Hey, buy this turnkey in Detroit or Memphis.

Neil Henderson: 00:33:16

And hey, there's some great markets in Detroit and Memphis.

Neil Henderson: 00:33:19

But you don't know, you don't have the experience.

Neil Henderson: 00:33:22

You're trusting someone else to say, oh yeah, it's a great deal when they're incentivized to sell you the house, to just sell you the house and then maybe get out of it, and then maybe they're handed it off to some other schmo to manage it.

Jonathan Green: 00:33:35

Yeah.

Jonathan Green: 00:33:36

The one thing I'd add to that is mindset, because I think you can have the time, experience and money and still have just a bad mindset and you'll lose money and you'll make bad decision and you'll burn business partners, you know, or you're so busy, like you said, you're going to give up a little bit too much control.

Jonathan Green: 00:33:54

It's like people who do an out of state flip and they've never done anything.

Jonathan Green: 00:33:57

Do you really think the contractor is going to show up?

Jonathan Green: 00:34:00

Are you silly?

Jonathan Green: 00:34:01

Like, they don't know you.

Jonathan Green: 00:34:02

They know you're 2,000 miles away.

Jonathan Green: 00:34:04

Like they're running with the money.

Jonathan Green: 00:34:05

Just be smarter.

Jonathan Green: 00:34:07

You have to have a whole team on the ground.

Jonathan Green: 00:34:09

And it's just modern marketing has changed things.

Jonathan Green: 00:34:12

It really looks good.

Jonathan Green: 00:34:13

It's the same even for syndications, which again are really passive.

Jonathan Green: 00:34:16

But like, you better vet the operator.

Jonathan Green: 00:34:18

I'm much less worried about the actual asset in those because I'm trusting the operator that they have all these other people putting money in.

Jonathan Green: 00:34:25

It's not to say that new operators can't do well, but like me personally, I'm not going on a first time operator on a syndication.

Jonathan Green: 00:34:31

Like, I want a track record and I want to know that they've had at least a modified failure.

Jonathan Green: 00:34:36

All of us in real estate have crapped the beta at one time.

Jonathan Green: 00:34:39

And those who tell you that they haven't are lying or they're a big one's coming, a really big one, because they think they can't be beat.

Neil Henderson: 00:34:46

Well, listen, Jonathan Green, I have so enjoyed this conversation with one of the best ones we've had in a while.

Neil Henderson: 00:34:51

If any of our listeners want to reach out to you and find out more about what you're all about, what would be the best way for them to do that?

Jonathan Green: 00:34:58

I'm good on the Instagram dms.

Jonathan Green: 00:35:00

That's Trust Green with an E at the end and that's same.

Jonathan Green: 00:35:03

My hub site is@trustgreen.com My team, if people are interested and we work primarily in New Jersey, but we're opening in Florida now.

Jonathan Green: 00:35:10

We're also opening soon in Utah and California.

Jonathan Green: 00:35:12

Parts of my team and we do operate in a small part of Nevada and New York that's at streamlined with a D Properties.

Jonathan Green: 00:35:19

And of course my podcast that Clint was just on is then in the Art of Real Estate Investing.

Jonathan Green: 00:35:24

We're over 120 episodes.

Jonathan Green: 00:35:25

Clint's episode will come out.

Jonathan Green: 00:35:27

These will probably end up around the same time.

Jonathan Green: 00:35:30

Those are the best way to find me.

Jonathan Green: 00:35:31

I don't answer my phone.

Jonathan Green: 00:35:32

That's a kind of a thing that everybody knows about me.

Jonathan Green: 00:35:34

I call myself the number one texter in the world because I never talk on the phone.

Jonathan Green: 00:35:38

I only talk on scheduled calls or zooms because my phone rings 200 times a day with numbers I don't know because all brokerages sell our numbers to everybody.

Jonathan Green: 00:35:47

So again, it's a time efficiency thing, just like a lot of the conversation we have.

Jonathan Green: 00:35:51

But yeah, I'll be in my Instagram DMs enough because I like it.

Jonathan Green: 00:35:55

And just on social media, I do whatever I want.

Jonathan Green: 00:35:58

I have no content calendar.

Jonathan Green: 00:36:00

I say what I want, do what I want.

Jonathan Green: 00:36:02

And I could care less what the actual results are.

Jonathan Green: 00:36:04

That turns out to be good results.

Jonathan Green: 00:36:06

I appreciate you guys having me on.

Jonathan Green: 00:36:08

I had a great time.

Neil Henderson: 00:36:09

Absolutely.

Neil Henderson: 00:36:10

Thanks, Jonathan.

Jonathan Green: 00:36:11

Thanks.

Clint Harris: 00:36:11

Thanks, Jonathan.

Clint Harris: 00:36:12

Yeah, I really appreciate your time.

Jonathan Green: 00:36:13

Have a great one.

Jonathan Green: 00:36:14

Thanks, guys.

Jonathan Green: 00:36:14

You too.

Neil Henderson: 00:36:15

Thank you so much for listening and watching the Truly Passive Income podcast.

Neil Henderson: 00:36:19

If you liked the show, if you think it would be useful for someone else, the greatest compliment that you could give us would be to share the episode.

Neil Henderson: 00:36:27

Leave a comment down below or leave us an honest review.

Neil Henderson: 00:36:30

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to let us know down below.

Neil Henderson: 00:36:34

And remember, with truly passive income comes freedom of time, place and the freedom to pursue your higher purpose.