Rory and Greg interview Rich Gaccione from Providence, Rhode Island. Rich played guitar in What Feeds the Fire and Edict. He is also the owner of Providence Vegan Deli.

We discuss how the Providence Vegan Deli grow of Rich's seitan business, Born from Pain, which which he started after losing his job during the pandemic. Rich speaks about the challenges he faced during the initial phases, including navigating the complexities of food production regulations and the necessity of establishing connections within local farmer's markets and other vegan related businesses. The conversation highlights the importance of community support in fostering the growth of small businesses, as well as the vital role of mentorship and collaboration within the local vegan and punk networks. This culminates in the eventual opening of the brick-and-mortar deli, a space that not only offers nourishing food but also serves as a hub for community engagement and support.

Later in the episode, they discuss the ethos of altruism that permeates the punk and hardcore scenes, emphasizing the importance of giving back to the community. The speaker shares heartfelt anecdotes about initiatives taken at the deli to provide free meals to those in need, and to touring bands, reflecting a deep-seated desire to foster inclusivity and compassion. This discussion serves as a poignant reminder of the interconnectedness of community, business, and ethical living, illustrating how the values borne from music and punk culture can manifest in meaningful, real-world applications.

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For some reason, we're gravitating towards interviewing a lot of vegan folks.

That's cool.

It needs to be done.

And, you know, I think it's funny just because, like, a lot of older folks that have been into hardcore punk for so long have just ended up continuing being vegan.

Like, I think that's one thing that stuck.

Yeah, they leave a lot of the things behind, but I think veganism is one of the things that just, like, you know, it's the right thing, decision.

So, like, why change that?

You know, leaving a.

Leaving a shitty hardcore band behind is like, yeah, that's.

That's the good decision.

I'm gonna go have a family.

I'm gonna start a business.

I'm gonna go travel the world.

But I can do all of that while not eating animals or killing stuff.

You know, it's.

It's.

It's the right choice.

It's funny because we were.

I was talking with a friend of mine, Paul, who's vegan, and he's, like, got way more vegan years than I do, and mine are getting substantial now.

Like, it's greater than 50% of my life, which freaks me out.

But he.

He and I were both talking about how at one point we were straight edge, and then we, like, fell into a pattern of substance abuse and had problems with that.

But even when we, were, like, at the pinnacle of making our worst decisions in life, we, like, never gave up on veganism.

And so I like, definitely hear what you're saying.

It's.

It's funny because, like, people kind of come and go through hardcore, but a lot of folks just stick with veganism.

Straight on through.

Yeah, it feels good.

It still makes an impact, no matter what else you're doing.

So it's like, once you real.

It's like an easy.

It's an easy sell.

You're like, oh, I made the right decision.

So that's like.

That's it.

You can just stay with that, no matter what else is kind of, like, going on peripherally.

I mean, that's how I see it.

Well, I'm sure both of you know firsthand and can probably show me spreadsheets that indicate such.

From, like, your respective businesses.

It's, like, so freaking easy now.

And I was just.

Rory and I just had this wonderful event last Saturday where Carl from Earth Crisis was reading from a book he's recently written.

Yeah, I saw some pictures of that.

Yeah, yeah.

And we were talking, he and I, which was really cool, because one of the main major reasons I'm Vegan is through his lyrics and a why vegan?

Pamphlet that I picked up at an Earth Crisis show.

But it's like so freaking easy now.

Like you go into our local grocery store and half of the ice creams that are available are vegan and they got almost as if not more maybe dedicated to plant based milk alternatives.

So it's, it's kind of like setting us up for success, I guess.

It is.

It's great and it's something.

So it's a positive thing overall Lately as I've gotten older and gotten a little bit more wiser about the, the big business side of, of things, the veganism stuff, it's great that it's an option, but it's also a little disheartening how the bigger businesses are like, all right, let's get our hands in that.

And we're going to be like, hey, here's this good thing.

But then I mean, you again, spreadsheets and charts and things you'll see like, you know, Procter and Gamble and then all the little things that they're part of and you're like, oh, I thought I was doing like, yeah, there's so many sort of like sub things you want to look at nowadays if you really want to try to put your money into the best option.

You know, not to say if somebody doesn't know they're doing something wrong.

I'm not saying that at all.

But as I've gotten older and wiser, the decision making has become a lot more detailed, I guess.

But yeah, I, I agree with that.

I try not to have such a black and white view of it though because like on one hand, like, and it's been a few years since I've done this, but it's recent enough that I think it's still relevant.

Like I went and visited my, my brother in law in Tennessee and like basically in their town, if you want to buy groceries, you're going to Walmart.

That's like the only store that sells basically produce or something.

And you go in there and there's just so many vegan options and it's bringing it to places where it might not have been very feasible to do it, you know, 25 years ago or more.

So on one hand that's like good, but on the other hand it does suck because.

And they do such a good job of like obscuring who actually owns what.

And if you like look at some of these flowcharts that you can see floating around on social media and you know, I haven't vetted any of them, so I won't stand by them necessarily.

But, like, it's like there's basically like six companies making food in this country and, and it's, you know, it's really disheartening.

You want to support the mom and pop shops and in some cases, like, I'm buying products that when they started, they were like, like, Ben and Jerry's is a great example.

Like, at one point that was like, you know, two guys committed to a core product and they were doing it for the love of.

Of it.

And then it gets like, sold several times and now it's like owned by a soap company that, you know, does all sorts of other horrible things with their other product lines, but they happen to have, like, ice cream.

Yeah, I learned that same.

That same thing happened with Tofurkey for me recently.

Oh, really?

Just a couple years ago, they.

They were bought by a bigger conglomerate company that's like, you know, in dairy and, and livestock and stuff.

So it's like it, it's gonna happen.

Like.

And I, I don't wanna, I don't wanna vocalize my opinion as like, as like, you know, like, what we're saying is it's not a bad thing if you consume these products.

It's just the knowledge of where they come from and like, what you just said, how, how they're very much veiled under their, like, original, like, oh, Ben and Jerry's vegan ice cream.

That's been just two guys in Vermont.

That's crazy.

These guys, like.

But then you're like, oh, actually no, those two guys haven't been involved in the company for.

But that's.

I'm not sure if that's true or not anymore, but there is a lot of.

Of research to be done nowadays.

Well, it sucks about Tofurkey, but we're like solidly a field roast family at Thanksgiving time.

Let's not look too far into them.

Yeah, don't tell me about field roasts.

Yes, we can't.

We can highlight Soy Boy, which is local Rochester folks, which I, you know, honestly, randomly, he's a big coffee guy and he comes into the shop.

Well, one of the owners, Andy Schechter, and he's like, super sweet, super, super nice guy.

So, you know, I can stand by his, you know, hippie vegan vegetarianism since the 70s, which is pretty wild.

But, you know, for those that don't know, we have Rich Gashion on tonight.

And Rich and I met in Providence, Rhode island.

Essentially.

That's where we became Friends and you know, just a big monstrous guy that gives some of the best hugs in the world.

Thank you.

So, you know, I just, I just super psyched to have you on.

And recently I think a little over a year now, you know, you opened your brick and mortar shop that's.

That is the Providence Vegan Deli.

That's right.

Congrats, man.

That's amazing.

I'm really excited to hear about some of that journey.

Yeah, I'm excited to talk about it.

There's a lot, there's a lot to talk about.

Yeah, so.

So yeah.

Welcome Rich.

Rich also plays guitar in Edict and he's been in other countless bands throughout, you know, the years of being in hardcore and punk.

That's just kind of what we do.

The trail of hardcore and punk bands when you're 20 leads you to be on podcasts and talking about the good old days.

It's.

It's a pipeline nowadays.

That's where we end up.

But I love it, I love to talk, so bring it on.

And we can also get into, you know, magic the gathering and photography like.

Face first into that lately too.

Like there's so many.

There's so much going on.

I have the time for my shop but I also.

An hour or two a day.

There's magic, there's social media stuff, there's music stuff.

I'm really trying to still stay active with all these other peripheral hobbies and stuff too.

And right now they're all.

There's a lot of attention on the things that I'm doing.

So I'm really burning the candle at both ends.

But I'm really excited to be doing the things that I'm doing.

So happy to talk about everything.

I mean I love it because my 10 year old Ren, he's way into magic right now.

So it's been a lot of fun.

Yeah, we just, we just bought like the foundation commanders and getting into commanders, you know, reigniting my interest in it.

Yeah, he had his grandma buy him a lot of 2,000 cards on some like website.

I don't know.

It showed up recently so he's been like digging through those.

It's just so much random stuff.

Is there like a reverb website but for used magic cards?

Because sounds like that should be a thing.

There are, there's a lot of them.

Dude.

We.

So Greg, I don't know if you know this, but Enrich.

I don't know if you know this, but the Millennium Games which is in Rochester, New York is the largest gaming store in the United States.

Whoa.

And.

And they have, you know, magic Pokemon board games galore.

They have a whole, like, tournament room set up and everything.

So we went there recently and they have this.

It's like a jewelry case of magic and Pokemon cards.

And you push a button and it.

It basically escalates the card so you can see them at the top.

It's like, it is amazing.

It was just like, holy cow, this is where we're at in life, you know?

Is that where they keep the Black Lotus card?

Is that the valuable one?

That's.

Yeah, that's the one.

That's the one everybody knows.

And that's the most valuable one.

Yeah.

I'm not a magic person.

That's like the one realm of nerd culture that I, I don't participate in.

I'm more of a Legend of Zelda and Star Trek the Next Generation man, myself.

But I understand that my band's name is in fact from a Magic the Gathering card world purchase.

Oh, yeah.

Good.

All right, cool.

Yeah.

Not even joking.

That's great.

Oh, man, I love it.

Yeah, I love it.

What a book, a show.

It's just nothing but Magic the Gathering.

Because I'm pretty sure there's a card called warnerv too, which is another band from.

That's like a bunch of guys from Western New York.

I'm not, again, not a magic person, but I'm already three deep into magic cards I've named, so maybe I am.

I don't know.

I think you are.

I think that's official.

That's the, that's the, the mark.

If you can name three, you're in.

You can have a show.

There you go.

Three band show.

That's perfect.

I mean, there's got to be a.

Fourth one out there.

There'll be like some random indie rock band that we are contractually obligated to put on a show with a bunch of beat down heavy bands.

I'm here for it.

Oh, man.

Rich.

Did you know that how I also got into coffee was playing Magic the Gathering with Devlin when I was living with him?

Yeah, I, I think, I think if you were.

If you asked me like, hey, guess how I got into Magic the Gathering?

I would think back to your history of jobs and I probably would have ended up there.

Yeah.

Because I remembered.

I remember those days.

I remember Devlin, I remember the, the house.

And I remember that magic was an active thing in that house for the.

At one point a lot, or can't remember who, but at least Devlin and another person, yourself played magic.

And that was When I didn't play magic, but I was like, oh, man, I should get back into mad.

Because magic is like a thing when you're in it.

You have this, like, side group of friends kind of that, like, aren't, like, punk and hardcore people.

Sometimes, like, that's how it's, like, reignited for me.

Like, lately I started playing again.

It was just, like, people I met randomly that I found out played magic.

And I was like, oh, you play all right.

And it was like this, like, kind of secret, like, oh, new friend, new hobby, reignited hobby, whatever.

We start playing and then once you start playing and I started talking about it and, like, posting about it on social media out of the woodwork.

The.

The punk and hardcore friends of mine are like, oh, you play too?

And it's like.

And it just, like, ballooned to just knowing that, like, oh, all these.

But it's this.

I still.

I think it's like, I don't want to tell anybody I play magic because it's kind of nerdy, whatever.

But, like, it's not like, it's fun.

It's social.

It's, like, inventive.

It gets your juices going.

So.

But point is, like, when I heard you were playing back in the day, I had been out of it for a while, and it kind of got me, like, maybe I should play it.

But then realized I was like, no, I didn't buy cards.

Whatever, whatever.

And then, like, 10 years later, I dove right back into it.

So, yeah, and it's, you know, it's one of those funny things where you talk about it and it's like, hush, hush.

But it's like, one.

It's a beautiful thing that brings people together.

It really is not, you know, talking about it, but then also, like, actually getting together to play is.

It's one of those things that still does that doesn't isolate you as much as, like, so many other things can.

And, you know, I really love that.

And just like, that perking up, nerdy aspect, like, people get excited about it.

You know, I will speak on that.

Like, from.

So every.

Almost every Sunday, I host Magic Commander Night at my house.

It's with Alyssa, Mark Humbly, and then our friend Zach, who who I mentioned was like a, like, peripheral friend.

This, my friend Zach was one of my first customers with Born from Pain, which was the seitan company I had.

He just, like, a random person found out about it, started buying seitan and bread from me.

He was buying so constantly that I became friendly with him.

And then in passing, years like now, at this point, like three or four years ago, we said something about magic.

And it was like, what I was just saying, like, we said something about magic.

And I was like, wait a second, you play magic?

I was like, I play magic.

And they were like, we should play magic sometime.

And, you know, you put it out there, you put feelers out.

And then finally, two, three years later, Mark, Alyssa, myself, started playing Commander.

And we needed, like a fourth person.

And I was like, let me just hit up Zach.

And.

Because we weren't even friends friends yet.

And I hit up Zach like, hey, we're going to start playing Commander.

It's my two really good old friends at my house.

You want to come over?

And then like, boom, new friend with Zach.

Zach's got friends.

If Zach can't make it, he's like, oh, I got a friend who plays, so he can.

So it just became this, like, amazing thing that we do almost every Sunday.

We get.

We're like, literally like kids.

Every Sunday, like, everybody walks in and like, it's commander night, bro.

You ready?

Like, you get your ass beat this time.

It's like, Sunday.

Sunday night is like my Friday.

Like, I don't work on Mondays.

So all day at the shop on Sunday, I'm all like, giddy.

I'm like, it's magic nights.

I'm in great mood.

I get home, we get snacks, I get the house cleaned and.

And then people come over and we.

From like 5 o' clock to 11 o', clock, we play magic.

And it gets progressively more salty, progressively more angry.

We start getting in fights with each other.

And it's the best.

It's like the best thing ever.

Because we.

Nobody is socializing.

Then we started socializing.

Years later, we reconnecting, seeing each other here and there.

And then magic was the thing that got friends of mine who I've known for 20, 25 years to, like, be friends again and, like, come over and, like, socialize.

How are the kids?

How's the husband?

How's the wife?

You know, and it's just like, I owe it to magic, the gathering of all the things that, you know, to rekindle these special friendships.

So that Sunday night magic at my house is like the best thing that's happened to me in the last couple years.

Because it's.

It's the game, it's the friends, it's the.

The talking, it's my Friday, you know, so it's awesome.

It's so cool.

I highly suggest it if somebody's out there on the fence, like, I don't know if I really want to play magic, and I don't know, do it because all it's going to lead to is, like, having fun with your friends, so.

Oh, for sure.

For sure.

Don't start a band.

Play magic the gathering.

That's.

You can just end the podcast there.

That's.

That's it.

Just.

I'm just kidding.

I'm just kidding.

I love that.

I love it.

So let's talk about, like, Born from Pain.

Like, what start.

What started that, like, how did you dive into getting into making seitan and bread?

So it came from, like, a lot of things was Pandemic related because I was trapped at home.

The first, like, the first iteration of it was because I knew how to make seitan from a couple of years prior.

I started messing around with it.

It was actually when I lived in California, when I lived in Oakland.

I started, like, kind of messing around with it, but wasn't, like, happy with it.

Then pandemic, sitting at home.

What are we going to do?

Everybody's doing the, like, bread thing.

And, like, that was, like, almost, like, comical at one point, right?

Like, everybody's making sourdough bread.

Whatever I decided to make, okay, yeah, I can make bread.

That's fine.

Let me try to do something that, like, the challenges me.

So I bought the ingredients for, like, a seitan recipe because I just wanted to challenge myself, and I did.

And then it was like, somebody made a comment, like, to me about, like, oh, Satan.

And be like, you.

You make sandwich.

That's, like, two things that go great together, right?

And so I just.

Just honed a couple recipes.

I got the final product down to something that I thought was good.

It took, like, a month of just, like, trial and error and, like, thinking about it.

Because I've been learning that, like, that is what works for me is, like, diving in and figuring it out.

So that's what I did.

I was like, I'm starting a business.

I'm going to just start a business.

And I did.

And the.

The premise was that I would make it.

I was making it at home, which is not like, you know, like, not legal, so to speak.

So I found the legal route, which happened to be Trinity Brewhouse.

They rented me their kitchen because they were closed down at the time.

I worked there, Started making seitan and bread.

They're selling it online and then delivering it to people, like, all over Rhode island or having people pick it up.

That was like the first, like 20, 21 era.

The first year of it was just me, like, making it, having orders in by a certain day of the week and then being like, I'll deliver this to you wherever you are in the state by Friday.

And it went way better than I anticipated.

But it also was, like, a little too much.

So I had to, like, figure because baking bread in, like, your kitchen or like a not bakery kitchen is just hell on earth.

And I like, learned that very quickly.

So that's why I kind of like, eliminated bread halfway through the business.

But that's how it came about.

It was like, challenged myself, made a Thanksgiving dinner, had it with a friend.

They were like, this is good.

I was like, this is good.

They're like, this is good.

And then I just kind of.

I just figured it out.

I was like, let me see.

Because losing your job during the pandemic, not knowing what your future is going to be, not know.

It was just such a weird, weird time.

And I can't believe that was five years ago to like, have this conversation and be like, that was five years ago that, like, I decided I'm, like, gonna start making seitan out of my kitchen and sell it, you know, and.

But, like, I was like, let me just do something.

I was like, in my brain, I'm like, I could probably do a farmer's market.

I could probably do a pop up, whatever.

It was gonna be the thing that, like, got me to the next thing.

Like, that was the, like, real idea.

I was like, all right, let's get through this weird era of pandemic and no job and figuring out where life is going to go.

And it ended up being like.

It literally turned into, like, what my life has become now with.

With the deli and stuff.

But it.

It wasn't the plan, which is another thing I'll.

I can tell you all about.

But yeah, that's form for pain came from just the like, hey, I like to cook.

Let me figure this out.

And I did.

And people liked it.

Did you.

Did you intentionally?

I mean, I know you intentionally, but, like, did you have the name ready to go?

It was.

You could have seen me like, like, like sliding through, like, Earth crisis lyrics and like, Song titles and stuff.

One night I'm like, I'm going to name my business something after Earth Crisis, but I don't know what it is.

And I was like, you know what?

This sounds good.

So I messaged the Earth Crisis Instagram and I was like, hey, I want to start a business.

I want to call it this.

I want to use your font.

Are you okay with it?

Because I didn't want to.

I wanted to do everything like the right way, but like the punk rock right way just by like asking, not like getting something signed or getting a permit.

Like, I just, hey, is this cool?

And I believe Scott runs the Earth Crisis thing.

And he was like, that's awesome.

Go for it.

And I was like, sick.

And then like, like six months later, I think I sent a care package to one of them and they were into it.

And then Carl eventually visited the deli, which was amazing.

But I was, it was ready to go.

It was an Earth Crisis thing, whatever it was going to be.

It was kind of a roll of the dice.

But like, I felt like something that aggressive was like what I had to do to get like, attention.

And like, to this day, like everybody was just kind of.

That was a really aggressive business name.

I was like, yeah, but like, you kind of remember it and you like, you know it and just.

And.

And you get a story about it each time.

It's like, because like the funny juxtaposition was like when I was doing farmers markets and like old ladies older than my mother would come up to the table and they would, they would know what I'm selling.

They're like, they know what seitan is, they know what vegan is.

But they see this like aggressive green and black logo born from paint.

They're like, what is like, literally that's really aggressive.

Why?

What is that?

And then me, a 45 year old man telling an 80 year old woman about Earth Crisis, about straight edge, about hardcore.

So it was the best.

Like, couldn't be further apart in, in your world, right?

But like, that did it.

That brought us together.

Bridge gap.

They learned something and I was able to kind of spread the word and like teach somebody that there's like bands out there that, that promote this lifestyle that, that do this thing that want people to be eating or, or doing or living a certain way that that's not harming animals.

So.

But it was a lot of fun and it got, it got weird a couple times because some people are just like, what do you.

What?

This is just weird.

This is aggressive anger.

I'M like, and you know me, I'm a big guy, got tattoos.

I'm not like, I can't hide the fact that I'm like a big, like mean looking person.

So sometimes, like, people would be stand the name of my business, but, you know, I'm a nice guy.

If you talk to me and you.

Know, yeah, I was gonna say, I was gonna say once they approach you and talk to you, they're like, then really, what is.

Huh?

What, what's going on?

But the name, the name's pretty clever because it works on another front too.

Just.

And the only reason I know this was I took French in high school.

But bread in French is spelled pain.

And I assume that, like, the process for making seitan is somewhat similar to, you know, another wheat product being bread, since, you know, it grew from your experience making bread during the pandemic.

So you could always like pivot to that and be like, no, no, no, it's French.

There were, there were so many.

There were a handful of people who read right into that.

Nice thought.

That's what it was.

Which is awesome that you picked up on it as well.

I over.

I didn't see that in the beginning and then when somebody brought it up, I was like, oh, yeah.

I was like, yeah, no, that was totally what my intention was.

But no, it was, it was cool because some people would see it and get it immediately and then some people.

And then like myself, I didn't even realize what I was doing with a little double entendre there.

Love it.

Yeah.

Something you alluded to too, which, you know, I think a lot of small business owners do and continue to do is just figure it out as you go along.

And I don't think there's any shame in that.

I think there's a legitimacy to just be willing to do that.

And it's super respectful.

And I think the older you get, the more you go along your journey in any kind of business or life, you realize that most people are doing that.

Yeah.

You're 100% as.

As yes.

Then the last five years I have been seeing more and more.

My eyes are open and like, wow, we're all, a majority of us are just figuring it out.

Nobody, like has all the answers.

Nobody knows 100 what they're doing at any time.

Like professionals in an industry, sure they know what they're doing 100 of the time, maybe even not.

But like, the general public is always just figuring it out and you put trust in people all the time.

But now that it's More like I'm an I, my eyes are open and I'm seeing a lot of like, wow.

They're just, I know more than that person.

But they should be the professional.

But, right, Yeah, I, I experienced that in my line of work.

And I even sometimes will like, tell people on staff, jokingly, of course, because I'm infallible and I've never made a mistake ever.

Just in case anyone who, who knows me in my professional capacity is listening.

Sometimes people be like, oh, this sounds like an interesting plan.

How do you know it'll work?

I'm like, I don't.

I'm a pizza delivery man who finagled my way into this leadership role at work and it'll all blow up in my face at some point.

At which point the plan becomes, I'm gonna change my name and leave town forever after faking my own death.

The pepperoni will slide off the pizza on my delivery.

No, I, I mean, it's something that I, I, I learned that.

So this doesn't work for everyone.

As you also said, like, it's something that, you know, some people are inherently like, rule followers and like, need to know all the information upfront and get a B and C in line before D comes.

Right.

I was that kind of person.

My mom is that kind of person.

And that's where I got that from.

But as I got older and I've been on my own for a very long time since college, the way I approach things kind of flipped.

After college and then figuring out what I was going to do with my life and then starting bands, going on tour with bands, getting jobs, touring with bands, then coming back and being like, I need a job before I go on tour again.

And that, that era of like being like 22 to 32 years old really, like, flipped my way of thinking because it was a lot of just figure it.

Well, I'll figure it out.

I'll figure I'll get a job and then I'll go back on tour and then we'll be in the band again.

Not like, okay, I'm going to go to class and then I'm going to come home and then I'm going to do homework and then I'm going to go back to class and I'm going to get a degree and then I'm going to be a teacher.

Like, it didn't, that didn't work for me.

It just the lifestyle and the thought pattern stuff.

So starting the business, all I wanted to do was know what things are mandatory to start a business.

What form, what permit, what thing I have to pay for?

What does the state and government need so they.

I'm not in trouble and I will get those things done.

And then all of the other stuff, let me write down a list and I'm going to figure it out.

And that's kind of how things started working for me is like, get the mandatory stuff, get it out of the way so you don't worry about it.

Ask the questions.

People are there to help you.

One of the things that I've learned about starting a business is that state institutions like taxes and health department, they're there to help.

People are really afraid of these institutions, which they should be if you're not doing the right thing.

But if you're doing the, the, if you're doing the wrong thing there, you'd be afraid of them.

If you're doing the right thing, you call them up and you ask a question that you're not sure if you're going to be in trouble.

If you do or don't do, they'll give you the answer and that's that, that's what they're there for.

And I become really, really happy that I'm just like, I'm just gonna call and ask.

Like I'm, I'm.

I have no problem calling and asking and, and doing that sort of stuff.

So I won't have it come back and bite me in the ass in, you know, a year from now.

Right?

So just figuring it out has become like my, like almost my motto because that's what works.

Overthinking stuff.

I used to be a chronic overthinker and not do anything.

Like all of the stress of, oh my God, what if this happens?

What if this happens?

What if this happens?

Would prevent me from doing step one.

And I was worried about four things that haven't even happened.

So that middle era of my life, the like band and tour and not going back to college for almost 10 years, like that whole nebulous era of my life where I had to figure things out.

It like really channeled into every aspect of what I was doing to this day.

And it's just like, it's comfortable.

I don't worry about stuff anymore.

Like I did because I learned that worrying about things that aren't happening, it's pointless.

You, you're worrying about things that are made up in your head.

And this is.

Was like, I, I went to therapy for a while mid covet era too, to help with this stuff.

And it was just like, therapy helps everybody.

It Just side note, therapy does help.

Cheers.

But it is.

It's something I learned right away that I was like, I was putting too much worry in things that were made up in my head.

So not to get off on too much of a tangent there, but where.

Where I'm at now is like, the.

The just figuring it out.

It's.

It sounds crazy and like, oh, I don't know if that's.

Are you sure you're making the right.

Like, don't get me wrong.

I'm.

I'm doing my research.

I'm.

I know what is a good and bad decision.

So I'm not just, like, you know, throwing my cards up in the air and just running and just making any decision, but it is just, like, it works for me, and it's been working for me, and it's.

It's helped me not stress about owning my first brick and mortar business that's doing way better than I thought it was going to do.

And, like, looking at the paperwork and the numbers and stuff every month, I'm like, this is incredible.

Like, this is crazy.

I never thought I'd be here, but I'm not worried about it because I know what I need to do and I'm figuring it out.

Well, not only is that not a tangent, but that's like, literally the theme of the podcast, which is like, how did being in a band or even just participating in hardcore punk as a community and consuming the creative output influence you in unexpected ways in life?

And I think, you know, and it just kind of is occurring to me now, and I've said this in a couple different ways, maybe in the past, so forgive me if.

If I'm repeating myself.

You, the listener at home.

But, like, in hardcore and in punk, there's, like, not really, like, there's no institutions.

There's no set instructions on how to get from point A to point Z.

You've got to, like, find a mentor and learn from your mistakes and watch what other people are doing.

And it seems like that has been something that you've applied in.

In your.

In your business and then also hooray for, like, going to therapy during COVID I feel like a lot of people that I'm meeting right now that are in, like, a halfway okay place, you know, given the.

The context of the times we find ourselves in started, you know, reached a breaking point, you know, during that whole ordeal where they were like, all right, I actually have to do something about this other than just tell myself a story in my head about my worries and come up with a plan and then a backup plan and then another plan in case that plan fails, which is exactly what I am.

You know, that's what I would do.

And I still lapse into that to some degree.

But hearing what you're saying, like, that's been my experience too.

Once I stopped talking to myself in the privacy of my thoughts and telling myself a story about what I think is going to happen next, I found that the right answer kind of just came to me a little more easily and organically in the moment when I actually needed it.

And I didn't get that from like, you know, staying up all night thinking, trying to think through my problems.

Can you tell us a little bit how you got from Born from Pain to like opening up a brick and mortar store?

Because that always seems like a big step in any business where frankly a lot of people I know, they own successful businesses that they run out of their house and they haven't quite gotten to that point or maybe they don't need that point.

So I'm interested to hear a little bit about, about that.

That part of the journey.

Yeah, it's a very unique one.

And first and foremost, it all has to do with a local business called like no Utter.

They are a vegan ice cream shop and vegan bakery that has been in Providence for I think probably going on 15 years.

I should know exactly how many.

It's around the 15 year mark.

They started in a like a purple truck that would park around Providence with you know, vegan soft serve and treats and stuff.

And they opened up on the east side of Providence as a location.

So Karen, who's the owner of like no Utter and I became friends just through the community.

Like I would go to like no Other whatever.

I knew who she was.

She's like a, A you know, veteran figurehead in the community as far as veganism goes.

Like no Other was like a one of a kind, all vegan spot kosher as well, fully kosher, certified and vegan ice cream shop.

Right.

So when I started Born from Pain and I was doing farmers markets and stuff, Karen reached out to me and we've been friends for a while now.

So it wasn't weird for her to reach out.

She said, hey, why don't we sell some of your.

Because I was, I was selling seitan in like 10 ounce and 20 ounce.

I call them logs.

They're just, you know, like rolls of, you know, like roast style that were vacuum sealed and could be, you know, put in a fridge and, and they last a While.

So she's like, hey, why don't we take, you know, five of each flavor and we'll put them in our fridge and people can buy them here.

I was like, that's awesome.

I didn't have that opportunity anywhere.

So I started doing that for a while and we became.

It was great.

Like I would sell her a bunch of stuff and like almost a week later she's like, hey, I'm out of everything.

Just do it again.

So we developed this like casual business relationship.

They were in this location for a very long time and they got the news like a lot.

And this happened a lot in these last couple years, like landlords and buildings and all this.

There's been just a lot of craziness post Covid so it was an effect of that they had to vacate.

They didn't know where they're going to go.

They weren't planning on leaving.

So they started looking for new locations.

And when they were looking, they're realizing that like, I don't think we're going to be able to do this by ourselves.

There's like they had the perfect location for one business, ice cream shop in a neighborhood.

So Karen reached out to me and said, hey, listen, this is the situation.

We need to find a new spot.

If we find a spot that is suitable for two businesses under one roof, would you want to split the space with me and I.

And goes back to.

I'm going to figure it out.

I just said yes.

I didn't.

This was a moment I didn't think.

I just said yes.

I didn't have the money, I didn't have the, the.

I didn't have equipment.

I did.

I had zero.

I just had the product.

And I had the desire to do that because I knew that if I didn't get this opportunity, it was never going to happen it like that.

The instant thought process was she asked me officially if this happened, would you want to do it?

I instantly said yes, because if I didn't say yes, it would never happen again.

So.

And then I was like, I'm going to figure this out.

So that was the official offer.

There was no place found yet.

She was doing a lot of looking and I have to like, I have to go on record here and I know people are going to listen to this.

I have to make it abundantly clear that my existence as the province Vegan Deli has 100% to do with Karen.

And, like, no water.

There would be nothing going on in my life right now if it wasn't for her and her husband Chris.

So if you guys are listening and you don't know who, like no other is, and you're from Providence or the area, please check them out because they deserve all the praise because they got me to be doing what I'm doing right now, which is like, I'm the happiest I've ever been.

So I just wanted to make sure I took an aside to thank them publicly and forever because I wouldn't be here for one for them.

Karen did all the work.

She found the location.

It was an old laundromat on the east side of Providence on Hope Street.

It was an old laundromat out of business, right next door to a Thai place.

She said, we found a place.

It's really expensive, and it's going to be really expensive to renovate, but if I don't, if I don't hop on it, we're going to.

It's going to be impossible.

And I was like, all right, let's figure it out.

So she was like, all right, she's gonna sign a lease.

She's gonna do a build out.

She did all the work.

And what I did is started a Kickstarter.

And that was my first crowdfunding experience ever.

I used Kickstarter instead of GoFundMe because I didn't do any research.

I just thought Kickstarter was the one to use.

So I used Kickstarter and ended up being very, like, the perfect thing for the project that I was doing.

I set a goal, thousand dollars, which was around the amount of money I was figuring I would need with what, you know, Karen was telling me and what I was doing, research for equipment and stuff.

I ended up raising $24,000, which was more than double.

People from all over the country, friends, family and strangers alike, all donated.

And I'm so thankful.

I have a. I have a.

A list of every single person who donated on the wall at the shop with a little, you know, little plaque saying thank you for donating, because if you didn't, we wouldn't be here.

I had put up the Kickstarter the day I left for a three week tour and had it end right when I got back.

So every single day of being on tour, I was constantly refreshing my phone and worried if this was going to, like, succeed or not.

But in the first 48 hours, it was like 80% funded and I was like, holy crap, this is gonna, this is gonna happen.

So not only was I worried that it wasn't gonna happen, I'm now worried that it is gonna happen because I'm like, oh, this is gonna happen.

Like the relief, the like weird like sense of being like, ah, if this doesn't happen, then I guess I, I don't go into business.

And you know, but it wasn't, it, that really wasn't even an option because I told Karen yes.

You know, I was like, yeah, we're gonna do this, I'm gonna figure it out.

So, you know, there was this like, oh, I guess I could say I.

But.

But at that point, seeing the success of the Kickstarter and the support from all my friends and family and everybody who's like, this is awesome.

Having it hit goal in like three days time and then have like three more weeks to still fund money.

And when it ended, I had twice as much money as I needed and I was able to buy everything I needed, give Karen and like no water some money for the build out expenses.

And then I came back and we had like, I was back from tour and we had about a month still of like build out and stuff and I was back for, to help out with and just.

It's like a blur.

But I did like a, like a friends and family kind of weekend, soft opening the weekend before, which went really well.

But like it was just like from like we're saying point A, point B, point Z in that whole process.

I am so thankful that nothing went wrong.

Nothing went negatively, nothing went, you know, maybe there was something here or there that like, oh, I signed the wrong form or oh, we need $1,000 more for this thing.

We, you know, that's always going to happen.

That's, you're always, you have to be prepared for that when you're opening a business, you know, oh, the plumber said that's going to be $1,000.

And then he's like, it's actually going to be 5,000.

You know, like that's like a real thing that's always going to happen.

So.

All right, well, that's going to happen.

Luckily there were no big speed bumps aside from like health department like weirdness because we were two businesses under the same roof with a lot of shared equipment, which is a very unique circumstance the health department were giving myself and Karen like contradictory information.

Like, we would ask the same question, but we would get different answers.

So that that caused a little bit of like a delay in our.

In our health department approval.

All in all, that is how it happened.

I'm friends with somebody who saw something in me, Karen, from Like no Other.

She had the faith to ask me, and I said, yes, I'll figure it out.

And I have figured it out.

And just so for clarity's sake, like no Other and I are under the same roof in this build out in Providence.

You open the front door and to the right hand side is like no Other with their ice cream and their baked goods and stuff.

And on the left hand side is my deli case and my counter.

And then I have my sandwich station and kitchen in the back.

And we share some equipment, but the back of house is like a shared.

A shared open space area too.

So you can come in and get a gigantic vegan sandwich, and then for dessert, you can get a vegan ice cream sundae and you can take some retail stuff home.

And I think we have, like, one of the most special and unique places that Providence has offered the community in a really long time.

So that's the.

Yeah, that's the long short story of how I went from farmers markets in my kitchen to Hope street in Providence.

Love that sometimes we got to leave space for cutting up episodes.

But the really beautiful thing that sticks out to me is, and I, you know, Greg hinted at it and you hinted at it, but the direct influence almost of figuring it out is often, sometimes how you.

You engage in and learn that from, like, playing music with other people on a stage.

You know, you.

Something breaks or something happens.

It's like you can't stop what you're doing.

You have to, like, push through those moments and you figure it out.

And the other part of that is, like, those times when you don't have to figure anything out and you just, this is where I'm supposed to be.

This is what I'm supposed to be doing.

And I feel like you're having that moment and that energy is resonating, and I love to see it.

Thank you.

Yeah, I 100% agree with the experience with being in bands and working with bands and the very unique circumstance that is either being on stage and doing something with a group of four or five other people at the same time, or being an employee of a band who is in charge of a certain thing every single night.

And if that thing goes wrong, you need to know how to fix it right away because the show has to go on, right?

Those two things are.

I have experience with.

I have.

I'm very thankful that my brain has allowed me to take circumstance, no matter what the context is, and apply it to almost every other part of my life.

Like, oh, my string broke.

I.

What am I gonna do?

My guitar's over there.

So the song has 10 seconds left.

Finish the song, grab your other guitar.

You gotta plug it in.

It doesn't have the wireless, so you're like, this is.

This is like in a.

In an instant.

Don't have the wire, so you're gonna have to plug in the guitar directly to the amplifier.

Okay, song's over.

You do that.

It happens in a heartbeat.

And the show goes on.

So and so called out this morning.

You know that so and so has to leave at 2 o'.

Clock.

You have a.

You have to go to Restaurant Depot and pick up things because you didn't get them yesterday.

So how are you going to.

Okay, so you're going to get up on an hour earlier.

You're going to Restaurant Depot.

You know, it's going to be busy, so give yourself extra time.

If you get to the shop before so and so leaves, you know that so and so might be able to come in and cover for a little bit and then the day will be okay.

It's just context.

It's just like it's problem solving over and over and over again.

Doesn't matter where, when, how.

But it all, for me, it all comes from, like, experience with music.

It all comes from band stuff.

It's like, it's the one thing that was like, I cared about so much and put so much effort into whether it have been being in a band or working for a band.

It was so much fun and it was so much like it was where I felt like I wanted to be at the time.

And all of those things like problem solving, interacting with people, making friends, being somewhere for a short amount of time, and then having to just like cut that off and be somewhere else and being like, okay with all translates to all these different parts of my life.

It translates to friendships, relationships, jobs, owning businesses, interacting with new people.

You know, people say that like, oh, my college experience really honed how I grew as a person, or, oh, my first job, really.

It's like I.

And it sounds.

I don't want it to sound corny, but it's the truth.

It's like the punk and hardcore scene, the people within it, the bands, the experiences you make really was the thing that made me into like, the person I am.

You know, there's a lot of that, like, typical, like, oh, you know, I found myself in music or whatever.

I certainly did.

Like, I didn't really know who I was until I started playing guitar and like, going on tour and working for a band and being friends with people who I never thought I'd be friends with.

It all really turned into this.

I internalized it into how I live my life and learned a lot of those things.

It's.

It's crazy to think that, like, being in what Feeds the Fire was like a job experience.

Like, it was like part of my resume because, like, I went on tour for the first time and I drove across the country and we problem solved.

And like, some bad stuff happened and you had to like, mentally juggle how to, to deal with people's emotions and like, you had to be away from home without the Internet.

Like, it was just like, you learned a lot of stuff young.

And it has.

I've.

It just like stuck.

And it all is like, when I say I'm gonna figure it out, I mean, I don't know if you realize it's just the DIY attitude, right?

Like, it's, it's the same thing.

It's.

When I say that to some people, I mean, you understand, when I say that out loud to somebody else, they're like, the what?

What's the what?

And it's like, people don't know what.

Do it yourself.

That whole ethic and the whole subculture about it is.

But that's what figuring it out is.

You're doing it yourself.

You're.

You're figuring it out.

And here I am, you know, this many years later, still, like, doing it myself with the help of a lot of like, amazing people.

But they are like, like minded people, which I'm so grateful for that a lot of the people that I surround myself with still understand that, like, we are doing this for a good reason.

We're doing it for ourselves.

We're doing it for a community.

We're doing it for our lives.

And there's no, like, I'm not trying to make a million dollars and run off into the sunset and buy a yacht.

You know what I mean?

Like, that's not why I'm doing this.

I'm doing it because I love it.

I'm doing it because I'm making people happy.

Why are you in a band?

Because you enjoy doing that thing.

You enjoy getting on stage, playing a song, have people sing along and, you know, give you a hug at the end of the night.

Great set.

That was awesome.

Whatever.

It's the same thing when I make a good sandwich and somebody's out there eating it and they're like, yo, this is the best sandwich I've ever had.

And I get, I'm like, yeah.

And I want to give a big hug.

What?

I mean, it's like, it's the coolest thing and just like, context, it's just, just like, it can be whatever.

And it's translating so well for me nowadays.

So that's where I'm at.

That's just like, just the punk, hardcore, diy.

Do it yourself, Figure it out.

Just Ethos has just really gotten me really far.

Yeah.

DIY isn't just like a project at Home Depot.

Right?

Right.

Yeah, I, I, I, I get forced to watch a lot of HGTV home renovation shows.

And there's like two kinds of DIYs.

There's like chip and Joanna, who, whatever that couple is.

Rory, I can tell from your laughter, you know who I'm talking about.

And then there's like the Ian mackay diy.

Yeah.

It's like the one thing my mom and I have in common.

She's, she's the Chip and Joanna diy, though.

What is it?

The ship.

The ship lap feature or something?

What?

I don't know, some sort of feature that they talk about in that show.

It's silly, but.

Yeah, I think, I think what you've touched on, Rick, though, is what I think I've learned the most from my, my time in hardcore and punk and doing bands and supporting bands, which is like, it taught me how to be a member of a community in a way that I, I didn't learn in like, like school.

And I don't think school really teaches you how to be a member of a community.

I suppose religiously minded folks might maybe learn that through, like, going to church if, if it's like a healthy religious community.

But I wasn't.

That wasn't me either.

And like, I don't know.

So oftentimes, you know, we think of school and work art as communities, and to some extent they are.

But there's like a teacher you can go and complain to if, like, you've got a problem you don't know how to solve with someone, or there's like an HR department or there's like a bunch of rules that you have to follow and there's like, really no rules and there's no authority to appeal to.

It's just like you and your raw humanity and everyone else's and like, if you can be humble enough to like ask for help and acknowledge when you don't, don't know something and give people the benefit of the doubt or give them, you know, a second chance when they deserve it.

Those are the kinds of lessons that I found have really opened up the opportunities for me in life more so than like a degree with, you know, some certification or a title or credentials or something like that.

It taught me how to, how to give, I guess, without expecting something in return necessarily.

And that's been the lesson that's taken me the farthest, like in unexpected ways, like at work.

The way that showed up for me in my life, like it sounds to me like the way you're, you, you progressed from like losing your job to starting this home based business to having like a mentorship and in a brick and mortar store, you know, it just sounded like all the, all the moons and stars aligned in just the right way and you could like walk between the raindrops that were getting everyone else.

And I, and I, and I'm, and I'm like, I love hearing this story from you and I hope that everyone who's listening has an experience in life like that where the, everything just aligns so perfectly and it's like a movie or like magic or something.

The one example that I have of that in my own life was I work in a public library and then when like the pandemic hit, everything shut down.

Our vendors that sold us books like all stop.

They're like, we're not sending you books for at least three months, maybe more.

So we had like nothing to distribute.

And I was like, all right, I got all this extra money now I'm going to buy 200 Wi Fi hotspots and just like loan them out to people like kids at home who have no Internet.

And I came to find from like my sister in law who teaches in the same town that I, I work at a library.

And like most of her ESL students, they like had no Internet at home.

And she was like, we're going to lose these kids.

They're going to be gone for a year and they're going to be so far behind, like they're already struggling.

And I would like think about that.

And I was like, you know, I'm going to buy some hotspots and I'm going to give them to these kids.

And then like when all was said and done after like a year of no, no school and all online learning, I found out that 75 students in the district had no Internet at home.

And the only access that ever materialized for them for like.

Like staying connected with their.

Their classmates and friends and.

And the teachers were the WI FI hotspots that we let them borrow.

And it.

It just like.

But that kind of ingenuity, that willingness to like, stake my whole career on like, I'm just gonna order 200 hotspots without asking permission.

I'm just gonna beg for forgiveness later if it's a disaster like that.

That came from punk rock.

Yeah, yeah.

I. I wanna.

I just relating to exactly what you did, the generosity and thinking about others, because there's people out there that need it.

At my shop, I. I have a board on my.

On the wall that if you need to eat, just.

You just take a little.

Little piece of paper off the wall and you can come to the counter and just give us a thing and say, you don't have to say anything.

It said, we have a little sign that says, don't say anything if you don't want to feel comfortable.

Bring this to counter.

We'll get you something to eat.

And I started that because I come from a family that wasn't always that well off.

We weren't well off to begin with.

We're at a point where.

On food stamps.

My mom's single mother raising me until I was about 11 years old.

So there was a lot of times that, like, she needed help and was getting help, you know, government assistance and from friends and family and stuff.

And I didn't.

I was as a young kid.

I don't know that until later on learning that my situation was way.

I don't want to use this in the worse than I thought it was.

So when now I open a business and it's successful and there's an opportunity to do something, to give back, like I always want to do.

That is one of.

Kind of one of my faults.

I don't ever want to.

I don't want to pile up savings and just sit there and be like, I have this money now.

Like, I want it to do something.

I don't want to buy myself anything.

I want to make people happy.

So what I do at my shop is I give back to the community.

If.

If we were on the front page of the Providence Journal in February, out of nowhere, like the biggest Rhode island newspaper, they.

They did a story about us and put me on the COVID And I didn't know I was gonna be on the COVID And I was on the news like two days later telling.

It was telling the community about what I Do.

So if you need a meal, you can come in and get one.

No questions.

Just come on in, take a thing, bring it to the counter, and we'll get you fed it.

That's it.

That's all.

I want people to be able to eat, Especially nowadays where people are losing the assistance, people are losing the ability to eat food, to have shelter, all this kind of stuff.

I also feed touring bands on the house.

If you're a touring band coming through Providence, if you're just driving through, if you're playing a show, whatever it is.

I obviously, I've been in a band.

I know what it is to, like, not have enough money to have a good meal.

I know, but I also know how much fun it is to be in a new city and find that vegan spot that, like, you're like, oh, I heard about that spot.

So I did both.

I combined the two, and I feed touring bands.

I give you a sandwich, a bag of chips, and a drink on the house.

Because I know how hard it is to be in a band.

And especially nowadays, things are expensive.

So if you just come on in, be like, hey, we're in a band and we've been getting so many people coming in.

It's the word of mouth thing.

People tell other.

Other people, and it's so rad to see.

Just like all of these things that, like, I feel so passionately about, which is the happiness and comfort of other people.

I do put other people before myself.

Like, I can admit that openly.

Like, I do not care for myself as much as I do for other people.

So.

But that's why I'm on this earth.

And not to get too hippie dippy, but my mom had always been like, you only got one life to live, and once you realize you're your life's half over, you're going to think about it every day.

And let me tell you, I think about it every day now that, like, my life, I'm 47 years old, I'm halfway there.

So I needed to put something in the universe that was positive and that was doing something for other people.

So when my physical being is gone, the memory of somebody doing something for other people because they were able to own a vegan sandwich shop in Providence, you know, I want that to be something that remains.

So it's.

It's good to be good to others.

That's how I feel about it.

That's a wonderful sentiment.

I love that.

I mean, it's amazing.

You know, I think Greg and I all being in bands that have traveled, toured, like, always looking out for that vegan spot.

I know, you know, when I was touring in Soul Control, that was the.

The ongoing joke for me.

It was like I would save up my money to spend it all at, like, greens in Austin, Texas or whatever it was, you know what I mean?

Like, but.

But, you know, you.

You.

That's the.

The hub, you know, it becomes the hub.

It comes the place and it feeds itself, which is awesome.

And being able to give back and speaks to me, you know.

Like, my upbringing was like.

My mom was like, I'm on food stamps.

You're not on food stamps.

Like, I am.

Like, that's.

That was the thing.

Like, I.

You don't.

You don't be ashamed.

Like, that's on me.

And it's like I grew up in that environment too, and.

And having that, like, food insecurity and knowing, like, it's not bestowed upon me, but knowing in the back of your mind, like, oh, that's.

That's a legitimate concern of food being on the table, you know, and, you know, that offering that and doing.

Doing good and paying that forward.

I think a lot of us are doing that.

And that's also.

A lot of us found community within hardcore and punk of likenesses like that, because we see that in others.

You know, whether that was like, food not bombs at the time, which is a huge thing.

All the benefit shows that, you know, any.

All of us have played throughout the years and continue to still do and.

And lift each other up when and where we can.

And I think that's what really binds this whole community and makes it as strong as it is without a necessary home, you know what I mean?

And I think that's why when someone does put out a call to support a business or to engage in a business in that way that so many people do.

And I think that's also a thing that Greg and I really wanted to highlight is there's so many people doing really rad things that came from this culture, in this world with those ethos in mind, and it's a testament to what we have all been a part of.

Yeah, really, it really, like, I do it not thinking about, like, where it came from, but you're 100% right.

It came from what we have done for each other in bands and as bands, for other people.

It just.

It just becomes.

It's so second nature that, like, when.

When somebody asks, like, why do you do it?

Sometimes I have to think, like, it's like, so ingrained that, like, I don't even remember that it came from being in a band and learning that community is important and do.

And being selfless and helping others and doing things for the good of people is just so second nature in the company we keep, right?

That, like, it just.

It's like, wait, what?

How did I get here?

And then like, oh, yeah, sure, like, you have to.

I have to do some, like, soul searching sometimes.

Like, how did I get?

Well, yeah, also my family situation and also just like, you know, knowing where I come from and, and how, you know, it's really important to just like, look back and see what your parents did for you and how they got you into a positive spot.

And then when you grow up, if, if you're a parent, how you're getting your kids into a positive spot, and if you're not a parent, you're doing something for others.

And that's where I am.

I'm not, you know, I'm not married.

I don't have kids.

And, you know, I have a dog and a cat that I care about.

But I think my version of caring for other beings is obviously being vegan, but also is just like, I own a restaurant.

What's the most easiest thing to do is just feed somebody for free if they need it.

So that's, you know, that's just kind of so second nature.

And I, I love doing it and I wouldn't, I wouldn't change any part of it either.

And I do want to also just add to that the funding of the like of the, the free meal program for people in need.

Not the banned one, but the people in need.

There are people who donate directly to us regularly.

You can.

I'm not asking for donations.

You can if you feel like it.

We do have a thing on our website of a donation.

Don't feel obligated at all because we're okay.

But I do want to make sure that I thank again publicly all of the wonderful, like, customers and friends who just, like, straight up come in and just give us some money for the, for the free meal fund, because we are a place that does that.

That's not a very common thing anymore.

Or like, I know there are places who do it, but in Providence and Rhode Island, I don't really know of that many, if any.

So it is wonderful that we are surrounded by, you know, friends and customers and people who appreciate it and keep it going.

Common Thread is co hosted by Greg Benoit and Rory Van Grohl with creative support from Rob Antonucci.

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Hxcpi for news and updates, contact us@commonthreadhxcpodcastmail.com Common Thread is a part of the Lunchadore podcast network.

Visit lunchadore.org for more information on other great podcasts.

SA.