Join host Erika Audrey in Episode 15 of Clover Club as she sits down with the insightful Rachel Baba of Seed Factory. In this candid conversation, they dive into the tough topics—cancer, the essence of life, and the often overlooked realities of small business ownership. Navigating the COVID era, EIDL loans, ADA compliance, and the daily grind of learning on the fly, come explore what it takes to do your best every day. Tune in for an honest and enlightening discussion that goes far beyond the surface of entrepreneurship.

Shop Seed Factory here

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Reach out to pod@hawkinsandclover.com if you'd also be interested in forming a small business group, where we come together to discuss challenges and foster mutual growth.

Welcome to Clover club.

2

Uh, this is your host, Erica I'm

just, I'm so excited for my guest today.

3

I, as soon as I started this podcast, she

was on my list of people where I was like,

4

oh, I got to get her in the chair up here.

5

, my guest is Rachel Babba.

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She owns a seed factory and she

is also a friend and a client and

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just overall awesome human being.

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And , we're going to get into

all sorts of topics today.

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So I hope you guys enjoy this

episode and let's welcome, Rachel.

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Hi, Rachel.

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Excited to be here.

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Thank you for having me.

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Okay, thank you so much for coming.

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Do you like my taco bell table?

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I do.

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I do.

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Do you know the story behind it?

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That you stole it out of a taco bell.

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I wished that was the story.

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That's way cooler than the story.

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Man.

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I, time traveled to 1989, went into

a taco bell and hijacked this table.

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And then I time traveled back.

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To 20, 23 to put it in my podcast.

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That's the story.

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And I'm sticking to it, sticking with it.

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I love that.

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I'm already so energized.

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so Rachel.

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I was thinking about this

on the way over here.

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We've known each other.

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I think for at least 15 years, I think so.

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Yeah.

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So yeah, we met, we met

in my early twenties, so.

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A little while ago.

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, and we became close while a mutual friend

was going through a cancer journey.

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And, uh, If you haven't had

that experience, that brings

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you close to a lot of people.

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, The person who's sick almost

becomes like this anchor and

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everybody in the peripheral.

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, Why what's the best way to describe it?

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I feel like there's just like a

lot of like love and support and

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community that is sort of blossoms

in a time of sadness and hardship.

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And I feel like my friendship with you

a really growing through that is one of.

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You know, a good thing to

come from something awful.

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Sure, sure.

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I think everybody.

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Yeah, everybody comes in

to help everybody kind of.

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Sets in.

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And Trump wants to protect and

wants to be around this person.

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Absolutely.

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I think you're, you're a doer,

you're an action oriented person.

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And so am I, and so I

think it was really easy.

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, for me to connect with people like

you during that process, because it's

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like, We don't want to sit around

and think about things and be sad.

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It's like, what type of action

steps can we put behind, uh,

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you know, this experience?

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And it's just kind of crazy.

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. So we had Rebecca Cummings on who is

a state and trust in Will's attorney.

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And we talked a lot about what

happens when we die legally.

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And why you need a will and what happens

if you don't have a will and just kind of.

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Exposing a lot about the topic of

death that I think a lot of people,

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if they're not forced to contemplate

it, I don't think about because

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it can be really uncomfortable.

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And I think for me, yeah.

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Throughout my life.

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Having had friends, especially

cancer, I think is, is.

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Different than a suicide or old

age, or, you know what I mean?

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There's just.

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Because you get a heads up, Erica, we

did meet when a mutual friend was sick

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and everyone came in close and wanted

to protect them and, . A lot of intense.

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Relationships kind of formed around that.

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The first people that I have shared

certain things with or people that I

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got to know during that experience.

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Yeah.

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So my brother has been diagnosed

with a stage four glioblastoma,

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which is an aggressive brain cancer.

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My brother is 53.

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And had a child with

his wife late in life.

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So they have a six-year-old daughter

and they live overseas in Switzerland.

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So that's a lot of layers to try

to get to that person and, and do

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the same thing, protect, you know,

Setting around them and protect them.

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And, I'm going to even

reference another podcast.

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But it was, um, I found it profoundly

helpful in the first moments of diagnosis.

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When you're, I'm trying to

take care of my parents.

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I'm trying to.

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Take care of my brother.

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I'm trying to get over there.

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I'm trying to make sure that my

business that I can step away.

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Yeah.

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And I'm not sure how I found it,

but it was Anderson Cooper, CNN.

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And it was called all there is.

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And I say it was because

it was very short.

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It was maybe a seven or

eight episode podcast.

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Okay.

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And the entire thing is about grief.

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Oh, wow.

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And, , I found it so powerful

and ironically, I listened to

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it in the car, driving home.

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Yeah.

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Not, not a terribly spiritual

place, but it was private.

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And I could have my own kind of

reaction and it was never a reaction

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that I needed to pull off the road, but

some were really tender and poignant.

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And a lot of what he talked

about was anticipatory grief.

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, and I were highly recommended to everyone.

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Yeah.

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I will immediately download that.

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Yeah.

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It was well done , And.

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I think when you get a

diagnosis like cancer or, or.

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Another, , Kind of.

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Relationship, you know, you're,

you're entering into this.

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And in some cases you are

told, this will be the thing.

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Yeah.

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And it takes you a while to wrap

your mind around the fact that.

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Like at first, you, you kind of react

like this is the thing that's that.

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And then you.

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You.

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Just start to work your way into it.

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You have to, and then you realize, oh,

we're still here where we're doing this.

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With cancer.

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We're living with cancer.

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And I think that.

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Was sort of, that was a pretty profound.

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Description.

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To me.

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,

I think, , this episode is going to air in November, Thanksgiving.

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Yeah.

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Nothing makes me more thankful for

the little daily present moments.

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Then having experienced.

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Loss and especially, I don't, again,

there's something specific about

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cancer because you have not necessarily

always a lot of time of a heads up.

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It really depends on the type.

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Right.

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But I'm, I'm thankful for those

experiences because they really

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permanently there's science behind this.

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It permanently changes your neurochemistry

to, to go through that, like beginning,

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middle end, that whole process.

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, and so I I'm, I'm thankful

that I have witnessed this.

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I'm thankful that I know people like you

who are comfortable sharing their stories,

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because I know there are people listening

who haven't experienced this yet, but.

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You will.

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I mean, lucky you, but.

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You're going to get

bad news at some point.

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, I just this weekend, , I have

one of my favorite clients.

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She's, she's gotta be in her mid fifties.

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She came in and, , She's been diagnosed

with stage four liver cancer and I a.

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Learn this information in a

professional setting and it was.

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It was very difficult to get

that news because I love her.

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She's amazing.

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And, you know, it's so interesting to

think that eight weeks ago I saw her

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and she's just bubbly and full of life.

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And we're talking about shopping and I

showed her this necklace I really liked.

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And she got it too.

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And a.

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The fact that that can be growing

inside of you and that you can not find

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out until there's a number four after

it is just in comprehensible to me.

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And it's easy for your

mind to go straight to a.

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The impending worst phone call, but

you're so correct that the time that you

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have in between, it's so important to a.

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And just squeeze every drop out of it.

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Absolutely.

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And just like we've seen before.

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So, so in my brother's case,

he's doing really, really well.

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So it's it's you ha you go through

these little mini shifts as you

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move through this, where oh.

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Everything's okay today.

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And.

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And you just keep moving through

these it's like, time becomes

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less of a broad, long thing.

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Yeah.

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And more of a short.

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You know, incremental thing.

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Yeah.

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And, and I think.

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, I'm not sure how I feel about

that whole live everyday.

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Like it's your last, I

almost feel like that's.

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A very difficult thing

for the human mind to do.

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It's a lot of pressure.

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Yeah.

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And what does that mean?

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Yeah.

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Does it need to be

something so magnificent?

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As, , I'm you know, the proverbial

climbing Mount Everest, or is it.

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Just that simple clarity

about what matters.

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What doesn't what I have

control over what I don't.

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Yeah.

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What I can do, what I can't.

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Yeah.

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It's really a life lesson when

you, or, or someone very close

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to you has a diagnosis like that.

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Because it.

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It does shift.

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There's a lot of sort of

tectonic shifts that happen.

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, And then you still get up.

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You still move forward.

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You go through treatment.

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You know, you do what you can.

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And you're still, you're still in it.

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You're still, it's like a

backpack that you can't take

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off, but people don't see it.

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, and it's.

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Interesting earlier this year in February,

my grandfather passed away and he was

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98 years old, lived an amazing life.

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I mean, it's.

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He, he had a good, , and my family,

you know, we got together and we went

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to lunch that day and we went to a

restaurant that we've been eating at

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since I was a baby and a bassinet.

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And we just had lunch as a family.

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And, , all of us had

just experienced this.

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It came as a surprise.

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So we have this surprising, you

know, Permanent change to our

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lives, but from the outside,

we're just a family having lunch.

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And I think when you experience things

like that, to me, it makes me so much

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more compassionate because you never

know when you see somebody, you know,

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Turn without a signal or, , taking

too long in line at the grocery

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store, these irritating little things.

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I really try.

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And I don't, I'm not always

successful at it, but I try really

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hard to be like, I don't know what

type of day this person is having.

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Yeah.

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But I like to kind of carry that

with me of giving people, grace,

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and just like, what if this

person just had got horrible news?

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What if this person's

experiencing something that.

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Why would, I know, you know what I mean?

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, and I think it's easy to, uh, have a

little bit of like a saltier lens maybe.

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When you haven't been forced

to deal with stuff like this.

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And you and I, in particular, I

mean, we have a lot of mutual friends

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who have also experienced this.

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, it's kind of interesting, actually it, my

mom said to me once she was like, I can't

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believe how many people, you know, who

have passed away, not just from cancer.

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, and I'm not even 40 yet

and it's fucking tough.

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Yeah.

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It's fucking tough.

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, I don't know if this is

an insensitive pivot, but.

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Being a solo, small business

owner is also tough.

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And there are also things

that you deal with in that.

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And I think that there are kind

of some takeaways and carry overs.

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, that helps support me as a

business owner that I've learned

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through observing people's lives.

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You know, Maybe coming

to an early conclusion.

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, do you feel that way?

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Like, do you feel like having

gone through this with our mutual

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friend and now with your brother?

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, does it change the way you look

at or approach your business?

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I think it,

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,

Yes.

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Yes.

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Um, Uh, I think.

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Trying to think of the

right way to phrase it.

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There's a, there's a lot more that I.

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Let go of you have.

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There's a lot more that I'm

like, it doesn't matter.

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It does.

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But it doesn't.

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Yeah.

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And that's not, you know,

we're not doing it any better.

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We're just trying to do

it the best we can, right?

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Absolutely.

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I think for me over the past year is just

a lot of letting go of little things.

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Um, and I would describe myself

as a fairly controlling person.

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Yeah.

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And I think, , I think that's

one of the reasons why I.

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Went into business for myself

was that then I could kind

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of exercise those things.

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Those urges.

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And, um, and really work at making

something the best that I could make it.

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Yes.

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, and it also has a lot

of time behind it now.

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Right?

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So the store is 20 years old and

there's a lot of things that we can.

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Kind of let, let.

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Not be on autopilot, but just,

they're just, it's smooth.

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Yeah, right?

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Yeah.

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And I think, , you know,

if it's purple, not green.

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It's okay.

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What.

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Whatever it is.

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I can't, I can't even think of

a, good example at the moment.

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I just feel that there's a lot of

things that, , and, and to your point,

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even being salty with someone in

line or in traffic or whatever, Yeah.

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There's there's.

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Those are two very different examples.

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One carries with it, a.

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Threat the other.

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Not so much.

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But even in those areas, I've

just found it's all good.

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Yeah, it's \ It's not worth

sweating, not worth it.

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Yeah.

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It's just literally not worth it.

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Yeah.

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I shared a story a couple of

episodes ago about a lady that

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I saw littering and traffic, and

I said something to her and now.

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I wouldn't say a damn thing.

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I'd just be like litter away.

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Like I'm not getting shot over this.

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I'm not going to , get a feathers ruffled.

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, I just, I don't know why, man.

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I think, I think the other thing

is, is there something that I can

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share or something that I can do,

that's going to change that right.

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Can I, I mean, it sounds like it's not in

a position where I can even kind of swoop

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behind and pick it up or take care of it.

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Yeah.

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So it's almost like what

is, is my reaction to this?

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Going to create any benefit.

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Just amplify what's already happening.

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Yes.

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And I that'd be an amplifier.

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Yeah.

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That whole thing.

312

Maybe that's the, what I'm

really trying to get to.

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That's the thing that's become.

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So achingly clear.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Agree with that.

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, It's.

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I mean, you've been in business.

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For an impressive amount of time and

you wouldn't have that track record,

321

if you weren't good at what you do.

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Right.

323

, but it's interesting even 20

years and to think of evolving

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mindsets and approaches and.

325

Uh, I think that's something.

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, I think he even wrote this

down in my notes that.

327

You can't be a successful solo business

owner, if you aren't flexible and

328

open-minded and willing to adapt because

there's no room for rigidity in this.

329

Yeah.

330

, that's the that's the great irony,

I think, is so many of us think.

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No, I really want it to be

specific to, to what I want.

332

And I want to control these components

or, or, you know, , the environment.

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Yup.

334

And I think, going into business

for yourself as one of the.

335

Least opportune places

to control everything.

336

Kind of design everything.

337

The grand scheme, but I think.

338

You're constantly pivoting.

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And, and sometimes when I think

back on that time span of having

340

a children's store that long.

341

It's been several different

businesses within that time span.

342

And in the, you know, when we opened, I

had a cash register and a carbon notepad.

343

And that's how we rang people up.

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Good Lord.

345

Um, And.

346

Not.

347

It's so 1986, my husband would say.

348

, did you open in 1986?

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I was like, wait a minute.

350

I was born then.

351

That was the year that I

graduated high school, Erica.

352

Sitting at this very taco bell.

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Booth in Chamblee, Georgia.

354

Um, no, 2002.

355

Okay.

356

, But I think there was no internet.

357

I mean, yes, but.

358

But not in there.

359

At prestigious universities.

360

Crazy big corporations.

361

Nobody on the scale of retail

that I was in was, was using

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a POS system at that time.

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Right.

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Nobody was doing business by

email at that time, again, not

365

at that, not at that scale.

366

Yeah.

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Just like a true classic

brick and mortar store.

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Got it.

369

And then I think, all of the women that

I've had the opportunity to work with in

370

the store have all kind of planted there.

371

You know, imprint and their

fingerprints on the store.

372

And I can remember one woman

saying , we gotta be on Facebook

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and we've got to have a blog.

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And I was like, if you'll

help me, we'll do it.

375

Yeah.

376

And then there were other

times where we were leaner on.

377

Crew and someone would say, let's do

Pinterest and I'd be like, absolutely not.

378

Yeah.

379

Because if anything changes

right now, that'll be all me.

380

And I can't commit to that.

381

So that whole sort of that.

382

You know?

383

Yes.

384

, and now it's, it's almost the

opposite and I think we're even

385

in a moment where it's like, We're.

386

Re-inventing again.

387

Yes.

388

, and trying to.

389

I feel like we've exhausted.

390

Everything we need to do on social media.

391

Yes.

392

Now, what do we do?

393

So.

394

It's a podcast.

395

Right.

396

It's the new Pinterest.

397

Um, and, and.

398

And yeah, a lot of times I've

thought about the number of women

399

that I also, you and, and Amy at an

aviary or, or Kristen at Rose Finch.

400

Not that I'm just going to the spas, but.

401

Annie it star and just these other

women in business that I talk with.

402

And I think man, somebody should

really set up like some sort of

403

council or some sort of, can we make

that happen because that's a very

404

flattering list of women to be in with.

405

Um, for sure.

406

And I know other people that

I would add to that list.

407

I think, well, there's, , I like, I

went into a, I went into a young woman.

408

I went into her business.

409

It's fairly new.

410

We don't know each other well,

but recognize each other.

411

Okay.

412

Waived.

413

I was excited to be there and try.

414

And she came out and just sort

of was like, what do I do?

415

And, and, and told me a couple of stories

and we didn't really have time to get into

416

it, but I was just like, boy, I would've

loved to have given her, , Some thoughts.

417

, And maybe it would help, you know, Sure.

418

But I feel like you haven't heard that.

419

The number of things that have happened

in 20 years where my learning curve

420

was straight up and down, dude.

421

There's no handbook for this.

422

And there literally are,

but there's no handbook.

423

That's gonna teach you everything

you need to know because each

424

business has its own unique set

of circumstances and challenges.

425

And, and expectations.

426

Absolutely.

427

And at the end of the

day, it all falls to us.

428

And I find myself, especially since

I've pivoted into more of a retail

429

based business, , uh, Struggling

with striking the balance of handing

430

over power and responsibility to

my employees and trusting them to

431

do the job I've hired them to do.

432

But also knowing, like you

said, if something happens

433

to them, fuck that's on me.

434

, do I have time for this?

435

I think that there's this, glorification

or romantic, this is what it is.

436

It's a romanticized concept

of what it's like to be.

437

A female brick and

mortar retail shop owner.

438

Sure.

439

Um, I just rewatched, if

you seen practical magic.

440

Uh, ages and ages ago.

441

So I realized this.

442

, they played it at the Plaza the

other night for Halloween, and I

443

went with a girlfriend to see it.

444

And Sandra Bullock's character opens

this little potion shop and just like

445

adorable little new England town.

446

And I think that literally

planted the seed in me as a kid

447

of just like that looks so cool.

448

Like I want to go to a cute little shop

where I can control the aesthetics of it,

449

and I can just make people happy all day.

450

And I think from the outside,

everybody would be like, yeah, you are.

451

But what they don't show in that movie

is like the taxes, the business life.

452

Sure.

453

All of this crazy shit that you only find

out you did it wrong when you get an angry

454

phone call or a letter from somebody.

455

Yeah.

456

It's really tough.

457

And like, I, the learning curve

couldn't be more vertical.

458

Yeah.

459

It's tough.

460

And I think the other thing

that's interesting is I

461

think we also have this idea.

462

Well, there's a lot of.

463

Um, We're about to crack

the can on this one.

464

There's a lot of things that I

think are happening that are really

465

interesting in business right now.

466

Like people would look at us and say,

oh, those are two small business owners.

467

Yes.

468

And we are.

469

But it's interesting that the

small is typically a finance

470

or a financial qualifier.

471

Yeah.

472

but I do think that we collectively

are now approaching businesses

473

with a set of expectations.

474

That are neither big nor small.

475

We kind of are approaching

all businesses with the same.

476

Expectations, absolutely reuse the word.

477

And I think those expectations are going

to be different for different people.

478

But I think they're very rarely about.

479

Um, this is the scale of this business.

480

So, what can I expect?

481

You know?

482

Yes.

483

And is that even, I don't even

know that that's the responsibility

484

of a patron to go in and.

485

Yeah, I know exactly what

you're meaning gets it.

486

Whether it's a national brand that goes

into, , a development that a business

487

like yours or mine would be in.

488

Or a local business, the expectations

are kind of the same and we don't

489

have the same resources, but we don't

have a budget for paying people to

490

put together amazing viral tech talks.

491

Right.

492

And all of the stuff that.

493

You know, I, uh, There's a constant

navigation of which horse do you jump on?

494

Which horse do you let leave?

495

Cause we can't do it.

496

All right.

497

, but optically, we need to look like we do.

498

Um, Yeah, I think, , and back

to that piece about just our,

499

like, if, if you walked into.

500

Seed factory.

501

Or if you walked in to target.

502

Two vastly different retailers.

503

Fastly, what would your expectations be?

504

Like you're, you're looking for a shirt.

505

You're going to get a gift.

506

Go.

507

I honestly, my expectation will be higher

from you and it's almost unfair, right?

508

Like you don't have the ability.

509

I mean, like the Royal, you have

like a small retailer, right.

510

But you don't have the staffing of

that, but I would, I expect more

511

of a personal connection when I'm

shopping with a local business.

512

I expect, , Not necessarily the same.

513

Color options or size options.

514

I expect like a more curated.

515

Uh, specialized, uh, Group of offerings.

516

But I think my expectations for

my experience as a customer are

517

actually higher in a local business.

518

Cause I'm like, there's still a human

being who has their finger on this, as

519

opposed to a big corporation where this

is all just kind of on autopilot, right?

520

It's interesting.

521

I think, I feel similarly.

522

And I don't know if that's just because of

the space that we occupy during the day.

523

Yeah.

524

If I, my expectation, I don't need

them to have a stellar tick talk.

525

Right.

526

, I'm not looking to them for those things.

527

I need them to be.

528

Accessible.

529

Someone if I have a question

or if someone can help me.

530

Absolutely.

531

And just kind absolutely.

532

Nice smiling face where you

feel like you're welcome.

533

And, , like you, yeah, just

feeling welcome in a space.

534

Yeah.

535

And often I will want to look

for what I want to look for.

536

Yeah.

537

But I may seek someone out to break down.

538

Where would I find

children's white t-shirts or.

539

No, that kind of thing.

540

Yes.

541

Or, Hey, I've narrowed it down to these

two, which do you find to be the most.

542

Popular.

543

Crowd friendly or whatever.

544

Yeah.

545

, but I think there's also benefits too.

546

I mean, your store is hyper

curated and the best way.

547

I mean, if you haven't shopped at

seed factory, please check Rachel

548

shop out because it is gorgeous.

549

I mean it's so.

550

Uh, a big chain retailer cannot

accomplish what you have done.

551

, and it's easier to say no

to things when you're small.

552

So people come in and they're like,

oh, you don't have enough men's stuff.

553

And I'm like, I know I have some like

men can a hundred percent shop here at

554

men are more than welcome to shop here.

555

But they're not my hero customer

or like my customer archetype.

556

And as a small business, I can

say , no, this is my curation list.

557

Here's the reason why that's that?

558

But big companies, I feel like

are under a really big microscope

559

on, , well, the main, the main

reason for us would be budgetary,

560

you know, Absolutely cost of goods.

561

Can't be that high.

562

, Especially because there's not.

563

but enough, like a thousand

square foot retail space, you

564

only have so much storage room.

565

You only have so much floor space.

566

There's only so much you can do.

567

Yeah.

568

, and there's only so much you can purchase.

569

Absolutely.

570

Yeah.

571

Absolutely.

572

You have to make those choices.

573

Yeah.

574

Yeah.

575

Yeah.

576

, I did an episode with the

two dudes that opened up this

577

retail shop right behind me.

578

And, uh, , we were talking about like,

God, the upfront cost of the inventory

579

alone and the amount of money just

sitting on shelves at all the time.

580

I mean, thousands of thousands, sometimes

hundreds of thousands of dollars.

581

Yeah.

582

, It's got to come from somewhere

and that's shifted since COVID.

583

And before COVID most of your most vendors

would offer some sort of payment terms.

584

I can buy this line in.

585

And then give it 30 days to begin to

generate some revenue before I have to.

586

Absolutely pay for it.

587

Right.

588

And, I remember that fall

589

it's Cod now that's right.

590

And it was, get the money up front.

591

I don't want to have.

592

Are you kidding me?

593

Yeah.

594

, that's a big, that's a massive change

to the way our businesses operate.

595

Yeah.

596

So on that note, going back to

597

really interesting things happening.

598

I don't remember the specifics

and you may not want to.

599

Discuss this, but, um, let's

see, there was a small business

600

administration offered.

601

Ah, let's get into this relief loans.

602

It was called the COVID

idle loan emergency.

603

Economic disaster.

604

Thank you.

605

, And that I remember being

sent out, um, in early April.

606

Yep.

607

Before PPP was even mentioned.

608

Yup.

609

That was the first wave.

610

Yep.

611

So, , I talked to my accountant.

612

I talked to my family, I talked

to other business owners and

613

I ended up taking one out.

614

I didn't take the full

amount they were offering.

615

I scaled it back.

616

Yeah.

617

, But I took that.

618

And essentially that was that.

619

took care of that spring

season that we were closed.

620

Um, how long were you close to her?

621

Two and a half months.

622

Yeah.

623

Yeah.

624

, And it's amazing.

625

The, that sounds so.

626

Little, you know, But it's

using the income in the pond.

627

Yeah.

628

, And we have, , I mean, we have a brick

and mortar store one, and then we have an

629

online store, but the things that we sell

in both of those are completely different.

630

Isn't that interesting.

631

And it was never one where I was buying.

632

So much inventory for the web

store it's always been shared.

633

So it's easy to have those

things represented in the store.

634

Right.

635

But for the most part, we

sold them more readily online.

636

It was a lot of our, , Waldorf

and Montessori wooden toys.

637

Open-ended wooden toys.

638

Love those.

639

, but in the store we primarily sell

children's clothing and books.

640

Yeah.

641

, And so what was interesting is as soon

as the door closed on March 14th,, we had

642

this shift and then people were contacting

us and they wanted the wooden toys.

643

And so we began to sell that.

644

We just don't have as much inventory.

645

, and.

646

Now we can't get our hands on anything.

647

Right.

648

Cause.

649

Everywhere else has shut down too.

650

And so now I'm like, but

what about all these clothes?

651

Totally.

652

Like now we have two.

653

How about a onesy?

654

, you like to raps?

655

So got you.

656

Um, and so that was really

interesting because we had to

657

sort of adapt to, to survive.

658

Absolutely.

659

And then, because the PPP was really.

660

, Proportionate to your regular payroll.

661

You know, the, the.

662

Previous year , not calendar year,

but the previous 12 months of payroll.

663

Right.

664

So our PP P wasn't that.

665

Outstanding.

666

It certainly wasn't going

to pay for that inventory.

667

Nope.

668

, so nice little bandaid on things.

669

Yeah, but yeah.

670

So now here we are.

671

Repayment began on that COVID idle loan.

672

Yup.

673

And it was the sort of

thing that it was either.

674

. I tell everybody they have to go

home today and they don't have a job.

675

And we just sort of drown.

676

Or I take out this relief loan

and, Maybe we can continue.

677

Right.

678

And I can affect.

679

I remember talking to my accountant and

he was like, what's a 30 year repayment.

680

And I was like, that sounds great.

681

Cause you know what, it's not today.

682

Exactly.

683

But I didn't really have any time or

clarity to think about, am I going to be.

684

Doing this when I'm 80, right.

685

So., the, the year rolls through and

686

And I paid on that for a year and a half.

687

I've never had any direct

contact with the SBA.

688

I got a letter in the early

days just saying heads up.

689

This is starting and I

set up the auto-draft.

690

That was kind of the end of it.

691

And then, , at the end of 2022 or working

on corporate taxes and my accountant says.

692

Do you realize that that $10,000

that you've paid back towards that

693

loan has gone entirely to interest?

694

And I was like, well, that's not.

695

That's not how I understood that.

696

I understood that it was going to be

a 3% interest rate, but if they're

697

doing that, that suddenly taps it up

to a 6% interest rate, that's very

698

different than what's written on paper.

699

So.

700

I reached out to someone at the SBA

and I didn't, I couldn't get anyone.

701

At this point, they're trying

to shutter that program.

702

As quickly as they can.

703

Yeah.

704

And now it's impossible to get anyone.

705

They literally closed the office.

706

Right.

707

Literally shuttered that office.

708

So, um, Yeah.

709

So I stopped paying, , because I

thought, well, now I just can't

710

get anyone to return my calls

to discuss the terms of this.

711

And then I was like, I think.

712

I think I have just an

ethical dilemma with.

713

An emergency relief loan.

714

And I, I know they're

not limited to COVID.

715

These would be given in times of.

716

Hurricane in a coastal town.

717

Or, or tornado or, you know,

other other event that could be

718

devastating and people would have

to close for a long period of time.

719

Right.

720

What the hell is that?

721

Why are they charging interest on a relief

loan that they're giving to a business?

722

So that you can stay open.

723

You've asked me to close I've closed.

724

And now, , We opened

with a boot on my neck.

725

Your.

726

And you're, you're

earning money off of this.

727

Yeah, it's fucked.

728

So I have some.

729

I have some issues with it, for sure.

730

And I literally like I've contacted

Senator offs, offs office.

731

We went in and sat with them.

732

They were very responsive.

733

It was not only myself, but a couple other

business owners that happened to be women.

734

Yeah.

735

At some point, my accountant contacted me.

736

And said, if you go back in, if y'all

have another meeting, can I join?

737

He said, all of my businesses are

reaching out to me and I have no council.

738

I can't get anyone at the SBA.

739

Yeah.

740

So not to, not to disparage the SBA, but.

741

You just can't, it's just, um, It's empty.

742

Yeah, there's nothing.

743

You can't get anything.

744

So you can't discuss it.

745

You can't.

746

Ask for an audit like they

did in the case of the PPP.

747

Right.

748

You know, come in and look at exactly

how we use these funds to see if

749

there's some other compromise.

750

Talk to us office office about doing.

751

Community service as a

means of paying it off.

752

I was like, help me, help me get to them.

753

And discuss any other option.

754

But this, . Financial burden has,

has just been, we've just been

755

dragging it along since, COVID.

756

Yeah.

757

And.

758

I don't know what to do with it.

759

Well, and I don't think you're

supposed to know what to do with it.

760

Right?

761

It's like you, as a small business

owner made a choice that was the best

762

choice for you to make at that time.

763

Along with thousands and thousands and

thousands of other small business owners.

764

And it makes me wonder if you can't

even get someone on the phone,

765

who's monitoring the repayment of

these loans in the first place.

766

Oh, I don't think anyone is.

767

What, what happened if you

just straight up stopped?

768

Um, I have.

769

And she's here to tell about it.

770

And my cell phone number is no.

771

I have, and I've reached out and

I've reached out to the senator's

772

team and been told repeatedly that

they've reached out on our behalf.

773

And we should be expecting the

call, but that's been going on

774

for seven or eight months now.

775

Dude.

776

So, , you just get silence

for a little while.

777

There were like, , I

want to say two months.

778

in the spring, we got some robo calls.

779

, Those have stopped and it, and I asked

the team at, , Senator Ossoff's office.

780

I was like, I would be curious to know

how many of these loans were given

781

out and how many have already closed?

782

How many businesses have already closed?

783

Um, and they didn't, I mean, they,

that wasn't their specific tasks, so

784

they didn't have an answer for that.

785

But it is a curious question.

786

Yeah.

787

Yeah.

788

The true cost of all of that.

789

Yeah.

790

Yeah.

791

Rachel, you're happily married, but

there is a term if you're single

792

called matching energy and when you're

dating somebody, it's like, you want

793

somebody who matches your energy.

794

, and so I think this is a good

opportunity to practice that with.

795

The SBA.

796

And like, if your energy is leaving me on

red, I'm going to do the exact same thing.

797

Yeah.

798

Yeah.

799

Yeah.

800

It's just not worth it.

801

Yeah.

802

It's wild, but it's, and the whole

reason that I initially contacted them.

803

Was because even a year and a

half in of repayments, , I was

804

like, I need a breather on this.

805

So I reached out to them to sort of.

806

See if there was some financial

hardship that you could press

807

pause for a moment, right.

808

And like I said, I just never,

I never got anything back.

809

So.

810

oNce I realized it was a little,

what was written on paper was

811

different than what was being

practiced with the interest rate.

812

I was like, just pause.

813

Just everybody.

814

Pause.

815

Until, Till we know what's going on.

816

Yeah.

817

Yeah, absolutely.

818

It's so stressful and

there's so many moments.

819

My business has been open for

half the time that yours has.

820

But I think of all of these little

moments where I was dealing with some

821

sort of big, scary entity, whether

it's my landlord or the government

822

or whatever, and just overwhelmed

and trying to do the right thing.

823

But there's really not a lot of clear

guidance and it feels intentional.

824

It feels.

825

I'll go as far as to say a bit predatory,

because so much money is made off of

826

interest off of fines off of us, not

knowing what to do, and it's not.

827

, it's a crime of nothing, but

it's, what am I trying to say?

828

It's not negligence.

829

It's literal ignorance.

830

You know, it's like, we don't

know, but we don't know.

831

I think the assumption is that if you're

a business, then you've got council.

832

I have an accountant, but I don't,

I don't keep a lawyer on hand.

833

That's not a business.

834

Vulnerability to admit that,

but I can remember the year

835

that, gosh, when was this?

836

This was pretty early on

because when I first opened

837

the sales tax rate was broader.

838

I want to say it was

7%, something like that.

839

And then they ended up layering

in the city of Atlanta.

840

To Fulton county.

841

And so you have the two sort

of multiple jurisdictions.

842

And I can remember.

843

Doing some cleanup at the end of the year,

just financial stuff and realizing that

844

the sales tax payable that I had entered

was different than what I had been paying.

845

I don't know.

846

And it was, it was, I assume

you weren't paying more.

847

I was not.

848

Um, And it, was one of those things

where, the department of revenue

849

had really done no outreach To let

businesses know that now there's this.

850

New layer of sales tax.

851

It's coming in on top of the old layer.

852

And so I was responsible

for a year's worth of.

853

A percent and a quarter of sales

tax, and it just so happened that.

854

That was a moment in time when, when

the business could pay off the penalty,

855

you know, And I remember calling

the department of revenue and just

856

saying, if I pay everything at once,

can I avoid penalties and interest?

857

, if I clean it off right now, And they did.

858

Good.

859

But it was just like, how do I know

if this is going to happen again?

860

Uh, and some version of that.

861

Well, yeah.

862

And it's not the first time

something like that's happened and

863

it's not the first time that, uh,,

government agency essentially has

864

said you have to come to our website

periodically and just stay informed.

865

Okay.

866

That's easy enough.

867

Are there websites.

868

True.

869

Um, hold.

870

Eight point font.

871

Doesn't do it for ya.

872

I think in the grand scheme of all

the things that you want to design and

873

you want to control in your business.

874

There are so many things that you're,

, I didn't, I didn't open a children's

875

store because I was a business major.

876

I.

877

Because you love compliance.

878

A stickler for compliance.

879

It's totally, I am a creative and

that's what I wanted to do with it.

880

So naive, whatever.

881

, There are some learning curves

in there that are expensive.

882

And like you said, there.

883

Absolute vertical inclines.

884

And they also layer in to the number

of things that a business owner.

885

Smaller large, but the large

ones typically we'll have a team,

886

you know, in place to do so.

887

Yeah.

888

So now every January I'm scrolling

that website just to make sure.

889

You know, , and there's a

lot of things like that.

890

They didn't always have the city

of Atlanta business license.

891

You had your state registration.

892

But then at some point they

started the actual city license.

893

And that was another

one of those instances.

894

Yeah.

895

, and , so it's difficult because you do

have to be., Nimble your own agent, your

896

own advocate in a lot of these areas.

897

, and one of the newest ones is, and we got

ahead of this, but is the ADA compliance?

898

For your website, Erica have to do it.

899

, and you may have already.

900

I don't.

901

I think the majority of people listen to

this are like, what are you talking about?

902

So, uh, so what are you talking about?

903

If I am M visually or hearing impaired,

and I go to shop on your website, then

904

their software or tools that I could

use that would make your website.

905

, Accessible to me, it might, it might be a

reader that's reading off the descriptions

906

of the imagery and the products.

907

It might be, and then walks

me through a transaction.

908

Should I choose to go there?

909

Sure it may be, , a children's

sweater that I have a photograph of

910

and all that all text is describing.

911

The blue and the style and the fabric and

the content, so that someone who can't see

912

the picture can understand the product.

913

Sure.

914

And, I think the.

915

The, again, the learning curve there is

that when you open a brick and mortar,

916

you have, , inspections along the way.

917

Yeah.

918

Uh, team building out your space.

919

When you finish, you'll have a

certificate of occupancy, right.

920

And that just sort of.

921

Stamps that, , everything's been

done to make this a safe and

922

accessible space, physical space.

923

Right.

924

And so you develop a website,

but the interesting thing is that

925

is, a little bit of a wild west.

926

In that, , someone had mentioned it to

me and was like, Hey, heads up for this.

927

So, , I start looking around, I

even talked to, or web developer.

928

And there's just not a lot of

guidance or information about it.

929

And, , one day I called

the, , department of justice.

930

'cause I was looking@theada.gov website.

931

And.

932

They were the sort of

governing body of this.

933

Yeah.

934

And, um, and I'm looking for just, just,

I need a bullet point outline of what I

935

need to do to make our website accessible.

936

And they don't have one.

937

They do, but it's like, It

just speaks in abstracts.

938

Of course.

939

, your font needs to be.

940

A certain percentage, variable, unknown.

941

Of the overall size to be

used with particular reader.

942

But I'm assuming there's multiple readers

or devices out there to assist someone.

943

So It didn't read like a list that you

could just go and tackle and check off.

944

Do you think that's intentional?

945

Aye.

946

I don't necessarily, I

think it's negligent.

947

And I think it's one of those

things that we tend to do to

948

ourselves where it's like, Let's

fix this or let's respond to this.

949

And then deal with the

problems that occur later.

950

We'll fix those as they

become clear to us.

951

And, , I didn't get much help

from the DOJ from calling them.

952

And trying to get, you

know, , a clear list.

953

Yeah.

954

And then in the end,

955

I ended up purchasing a

widget to put on our website.

956

And I'm not even a hundred percent

sure that that's a foolproof solution.

957

But in speaking with a few different

lawyers, , it's my understanding

958

that these ADA compliance suits.

959

, Someone could see you at any time.

960

They could say that they've had problems

historically, using your website.

961

, It's often done in a

federal circuit court.

962

So

963

it's kind of out of the question for,,

owner-operated business to say, yeah, I've

964

got the resources to sit on this for a

couple of years while we wait for it to.

965

You know, come to trial, right.

966

, that's one that I feel like, Everybody

should be made aware of, but.

967

I don't know.

968

That's the type of thing that

I would just presume that the

969

professional that I'm paying to build

my website would be knowledgeable

970

about and, build in accordance.

971

Like it wouldn't even occur to me

to, check on that, which I think

972

is exactly what they're preying on.

973

Well, and I think.

974

I mean these lawsuit

people like for sure, DOJ.

975

DOJ, even when you go to someone who's

building a site and asking them about

976

it, like our, new site is through our.

977

POS platform, right?

978

So it's not an individual, but, we did

that just to kind of mesh everything

979

together, even when you contact them.

980

And this is a huge corporation.

981

Right.

982

They'll say that's not on us.

983

That's on you.

984

What?

985

Yeah, that's actually insane.

986

So, and they're doing kind

of a template website, right?

987

So, I'm sharing this with you.

988

In the hopes that.

989

Anybody who's listing.

990

That might be like, oh, I need to get,

uh, we, we did a widget called accessibly.

991

Okay.

992

And what it does is it just presents a,

, little icon on the homepage on every page.

993

And when you click on that icon,

it'll open a menu that can help

994

you choose the specifics, , that

can help you navigate a website.

995

If you are sight or hearing impaired.

996

I wonder if that widget is installed.

997

If there's with, you could say with

reasonable effort, I have done my

998

best to provide an experience for my.

999

Impaired website, user, right.

00:44:54,443 --> 00:44:56,933

How much extra Otis can come on me.

00:44:58,343 --> 00:45:00,023

Um, I think the S.

00:45:00,053 --> 00:45:01,793

The circuit court.

00:45:01,853 --> 00:45:03,323

I would answer that one.

00:45:03,323 --> 00:45:04,073

I don't know.

00:45:04,523 --> 00:45:07,013

Um, but to me, that's this.

00:45:07,673 --> 00:45:11,993

This is like, where I say we're in

this moment of re-invention again.

00:45:12,023 --> 00:45:12,323

Yeah.

00:45:12,423 --> 00:45:13,563

, or seed is.

00:45:14,403 --> 00:45:15,603

I think that's part of it.

00:45:16,443 --> 00:45:16,893

, I'm.

00:45:17,793 --> 00:45:20,673

Dealing and trading and things

that I don't wholly understand

00:45:20,673 --> 00:45:22,353

that aren't my background.

00:45:23,013 --> 00:45:25,383

, Website, design and accessibility.

00:45:25,833 --> 00:45:29,673

So again, the learning curve is

straight up and down as you try to,

00:45:29,763 --> 00:45:35,723

to make your business as, accessible

and user-friendly to all people.

00:45:35,773 --> 00:45:38,593

, and hope that you hope that

you've stuck the landing and that

00:45:38,593 --> 00:45:39,853

everything's working correctly.

00:45:40,003 --> 00:45:40,273

Right.

00:45:40,333 --> 00:45:40,723

Yeah.

00:45:41,053 --> 00:45:41,353

Yeah.

00:45:41,383 --> 00:45:46,183

It's and I think once you tackle something

like that, the next something like

00:45:46,183 --> 00:45:50,193

that comes there may be a little in

between, but I feel like I'm constantly

00:45:50,193 --> 00:45:51,903

learning about something I'm doing wrong.

00:45:52,323 --> 00:45:53,103

Accidentally.

00:45:53,643 --> 00:45:54,033

Yes.

00:45:54,183 --> 00:45:56,133

Yeah, I feel.

00:45:56,463 --> 00:45:58,113

I think from the outside,

looking in, people would look

00:45:58,143 --> 00:46:00,213

at both of our businesses and

be like, they're doing great.

00:46:00,243 --> 00:46:03,513

Like, these are two, you know,

women who are doing the damn thing.

00:46:03,873 --> 00:46:06,873

Uh, and we literally are, but

there's so much stuff like this.

00:46:06,873 --> 00:46:09,813

Like I think it's really nice that

you're open to talking about this

00:46:09,813 --> 00:46:12,063

on a platform like this, because.

00:46:12,663 --> 00:46:13,863

This is the type of thing.

00:46:14,013 --> 00:46:17,343

That people like you and I talk about

behind the scenes, , and on social

00:46:17,343 --> 00:46:19,953

media, we're like, oh my God, look

at this cute new thing that we just

00:46:19,953 --> 00:46:24,993

got in, but it's, you don't know how

stressful and how many nights you're up.

00:46:24,993 --> 00:46:27,783

Just like, how do I solve this problem?

00:46:28,213 --> 00:46:32,143

, and I'm, I consider myself a

problem solver, but I'm not a

00:46:32,143 --> 00:46:36,103

millionaire and well, and you

don't always have all of the.

00:46:36,613 --> 00:46:39,733

There are multiple people

in some of these problems.

00:46:39,793 --> 00:46:40,723

Absolutely.

00:46:40,753 --> 00:46:44,113

Or the solutions I should say

for some of these problems.

00:46:44,443 --> 00:46:48,233

So it's not always, , like

sometimes you need to ask for

00:46:48,233 --> 00:46:50,093

help or counsel or whatever.

00:46:50,363 --> 00:46:52,013

So it's not always.

00:46:52,613 --> 00:46:54,053

, Just your.

00:46:54,053 --> 00:46:55,973

Singular problem to solve.

00:46:56,633 --> 00:46:57,293

Absolutely.

00:46:57,343 --> 00:47:01,243

I'd be curious how many

businesses in and around Atlanta.

00:47:01,783 --> 00:47:04,423

And maybe it's maybe it's female owned.

00:47:04,513 --> 00:47:04,843

Yeah.

00:47:05,173 --> 00:47:08,113

Would be interested in

some sort of group or.

00:47:08,113 --> 00:47:10,033

I'm not quite sure what it is.

00:47:10,483 --> 00:47:11,263

I just.

00:47:11,953 --> 00:47:12,673

Let us know.

00:47:12,883 --> 00:47:16,123

Yeah, I'd be curious if I

feel like that's a thing.

00:47:16,783 --> 00:47:21,737

Um, and it's even one of the things that

we proposed to, , I say we just, because

00:47:21,737 --> 00:47:25,587

there were other people there, but I don't

feel like it's, People have different

00:47:25,587 --> 00:47:27,417

degrees of how comfortable they are.

00:47:27,670 --> 00:47:29,380

Kind of peeling the

onion on their business.

00:47:29,380 --> 00:47:29,860

So I don't.

00:47:30,490 --> 00:47:32,290

That's not mine to say that's there.

00:47:32,290 --> 00:47:36,290

So, , but I'll, I'll just say

we, , but that was one of the things

00:47:36,290 --> 00:47:39,830

that we mentioned was just that

there's not a lot of guidance for,

00:47:39,890 --> 00:47:41,360

Owning a business, you know?

00:47:42,350 --> 00:47:43,460

Uh, and.

00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,700

Do you mean specifically a

brick and mortar business?

00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:47,990

I know.

00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:48,860

Not necessarily.

00:47:48,890 --> 00:47:49,340

Okay.

00:47:49,370 --> 00:47:54,170

Because I think now that, , I mean, all

this stuff that I learned about the.

00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:55,280

The.

00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:56,900

ADA compliance online.

00:47:57,020 --> 00:47:58,520

Yeah, that was complete.

00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,280

Digital it's totally digital.

00:48:01,700 --> 00:48:05,600

Um, And it was completely

new territory for me.

00:48:05,660 --> 00:48:05,720

Yeah.

00:48:05,930 --> 00:48:09,850

So I, it's one of those things

where I feel like I, I plugged

00:48:09,850 --> 00:48:14,890

some things in and I've tried to

start, , getting ahead of this.

00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:17,830

, but I don't, it's not my.

00:48:17,830 --> 00:48:18,730

What's the right word.

00:48:19,090 --> 00:48:20,500

It's just, it's not my.

00:48:20,633 --> 00:48:21,113

Field.

00:48:21,113 --> 00:48:25,193

So I, I feel unsure of where

I am on that learning curve.

00:48:25,703 --> 00:48:26,003

Yeah.

00:48:26,183 --> 00:48:26,603

Yeah.

00:48:26,723 --> 00:48:29,873

And I think every day, all you

can do is the best that you can.

00:48:30,023 --> 00:48:33,593

And some days that's more than others,

but I think that there are a lot

00:48:33,593 --> 00:48:36,353

of people who would be interested

in some sort of group like that.

00:48:36,353 --> 00:48:40,643

And I did a women's mastermind group

for the first half of this year.

00:48:40,913 --> 00:48:42,323

And are you familiar with

the mastermind group?

00:48:42,563 --> 00:48:42,863

No.

00:48:42,953 --> 00:48:46,403

So the way that it's structured

is, , there's a host facilitator.

00:48:46,703 --> 00:48:48,743

And then each person

you meet once a month.

00:48:49,103 --> 00:48:51,473

And you bring in some

sort of business issue.

00:48:51,503 --> 00:48:54,113

And so you have, I can't remember

the minutes, but let's say you've got

00:48:54,113 --> 00:48:55,643

three minutes to state your issue.

00:48:55,643 --> 00:48:59,643

And then there's eight minutes to kind

of go around the group and . People

00:48:59,643 --> 00:49:02,403

aren't supposed to tell you what to

do, but they ask clarifying questions

00:49:02,433 --> 00:49:06,433

and they help you come up with, , some

clarity and action steps, and then

00:49:06,463 --> 00:49:09,913

you implement them and you, and you

choose an accountability partner.

00:49:09,943 --> 00:49:11,833

Somebody takes notes for

you and send some to you.

00:49:12,223 --> 00:49:14,893

, and of course you can communicate

through that month in between

00:49:14,893 --> 00:49:18,763

meetings, but I found it, I think

that wasn't the group for me because

00:49:18,763 --> 00:49:20,353

our business types were so varied.

00:49:20,573 --> 00:49:25,823

, but if I could find a group of women

that had more overlap in the type

00:49:25,823 --> 00:49:27,143

of businesses that we had, I think.

00:49:27,233 --> 00:49:28,373

It would be invaluable.

00:49:28,373 --> 00:49:30,143

And I can think of off the top of my head.

00:49:30,803 --> 00:49:33,023

A solid number of people that

would be interested in that.

00:49:33,083 --> 00:49:33,443

Yeah.

00:49:33,653 --> 00:49:38,603

So if anybody listening feels the

same and maybe even we could do, and

00:49:38,603 --> 00:49:41,113

I know this is a thing, , I've got a

friend whose husband's in a group like

00:49:41,113 --> 00:49:43,333

this, but basically you sign an NDA.

00:49:43,363 --> 00:49:44,803

So whatever's discussed in that group.

00:49:44,833 --> 00:49:45,973

Doesn't leave the group.

00:49:46,573 --> 00:49:49,243

Inviting people to be

more comfortable sharing.

00:49:49,633 --> 00:49:50,983

Maybe more detailed.

00:49:51,403 --> 00:49:51,973

Issues.

00:49:52,033 --> 00:49:54,733

And the numbers and stuff like that, where

it's like, I don't want this out there.

00:49:54,733 --> 00:49:57,403

This is extremely personal,

but like, I need help.

00:49:57,703 --> 00:49:58,873

And I'm doing this on my own.

00:49:59,023 --> 00:49:59,203

Right.

00:49:59,203 --> 00:50:00,253

We might be onto something here.

00:50:00,253 --> 00:50:00,523

Yeah.

00:50:00,793 --> 00:50:01,153

Yeah.

00:50:01,273 --> 00:50:01,783

I like it.

00:50:01,843 --> 00:50:02,203

Yeah.

00:50:02,323 --> 00:50:02,863

I do too.

00:50:03,463 --> 00:50:03,733

Hmm.

00:50:03,733 --> 00:50:05,233

It's all about just navigating.

00:50:06,013 --> 00:50:06,433

It is.

00:50:06,613 --> 00:50:07,243

Yeah.

00:50:07,483 --> 00:50:08,413

And, and.

00:50:08,413 --> 00:50:12,043

Navigating learning, stripping away, ego.

00:50:12,673 --> 00:50:13,453

Oh, my gosh.

00:50:13,573 --> 00:50:16,783

It's a very humbling

experience, truly, truly.

00:50:17,443 --> 00:50:18,463

Oh, I agree with that.

00:50:18,923 --> 00:50:22,853

Something that's interesting

that you just said was, , The

00:50:22,853 --> 00:50:26,783

idea of being in these groups and

signing a non-disclosure so that.

00:50:27,443 --> 00:50:28,553

You can feel.

00:50:29,543 --> 00:50:30,293

Safe.

00:50:30,653 --> 00:50:34,253

Talking about the finances of

your business or the struggles.

00:50:34,763 --> 00:50:37,343

Could be the financial struggles

of a bit of a business.

00:50:37,883 --> 00:50:41,213

, And something that this is a bit

of a jump, but something that I

00:50:41,213 --> 00:50:45,293

found interesting is, Last year,

my brother was diagnosed with,

00:50:45,323 --> 00:50:46,973

very aggressive brain cancer.

00:50:47,503 --> 00:50:48,313

A year ago.

00:50:48,733 --> 00:50:50,433

And, , I can't believe it's been a year.

00:50:50,523 --> 00:50:50,913

Yeah.

00:50:51,603 --> 00:50:56,313

And at first you sort

of, everything falls out.

00:50:57,003 --> 00:50:59,813

You, , my father struggles with dementia.

00:51:00,353 --> 00:51:04,253

And, , advanced dementia

and couldn't remember.

00:51:04,883 --> 00:51:06,713

My mother fell apart.

00:51:07,203 --> 00:51:08,073

Hi.

00:51:09,873 --> 00:51:13,053

I immediately wanted to go travel

because my brother and his young

00:51:13,053 --> 00:51:14,523

family live in Switzerland.

00:51:15,273 --> 00:51:17,643

, But I had to make sure that the

business was covered, which I

00:51:17,643 --> 00:51:19,353

know I can do for a short time.

00:51:19,353 --> 00:51:21,273

I can, I like a small team.

00:51:21,933 --> 00:51:22,953

And I know I can.

00:51:23,553 --> 00:51:26,283

Kind of put that on them

for a short amount of time.

00:51:26,343 --> 00:51:26,673

Right?

00:51:26,883 --> 00:51:28,893

It was the end of October last year.

00:51:29,443 --> 00:51:33,013

And I think coming back from

that, my brother's doing quite

00:51:33,013 --> 00:51:34,693

well within his diagnosis.

00:51:34,693 --> 00:51:37,393

So now we kind of have our

footing again, right now.

00:51:37,393 --> 00:51:41,333

We're, we're all living in

navigating , with this cancer

00:51:41,333 --> 00:51:43,653

and, I remember somebody.

00:51:44,433 --> 00:51:46,653

Asking me something about the business.

00:51:46,743 --> 00:51:54,273

And I, I just had this very clear

moment where it was like my self-worth.

00:51:55,143 --> 00:51:58,143

Isn't necessarily tied to.

00:51:58,983 --> 00:52:01,653

The finances of my shop.

00:52:01,713 --> 00:52:02,073

Yup.

00:52:02,133 --> 00:52:02,583

Good.

00:52:02,943 --> 00:52:03,573

And.

00:52:03,573 --> 00:52:05,793

My shop is its own entity.

00:52:05,833 --> 00:52:10,663

And of course the goal is for it to

always be healthy, but there were moments.

00:52:10,713 --> 00:52:14,703

in some ways 20, 23 has been

harder than the past couple years.

00:52:14,793 --> 00:52:15,573

So interesting.

00:52:15,993 --> 00:52:20,013

Coming out of COVID and all the

volatility that we had there.

00:52:20,433 --> 00:52:25,203

I feel like in some ways, 20, 23

wants to be kind of normal again.

00:52:25,263 --> 00:52:26,703

Yeah, whatever that means.

00:52:26,823 --> 00:52:27,123

Right.

00:52:27,533 --> 00:52:30,593

, and yet it's been very

difficult to predict.

00:52:31,073 --> 00:52:35,873

And very difficult to forecast and

they're very difficult to inventory

00:52:35,873 --> 00:52:36,893

and very different, you know?

00:52:37,403 --> 00:52:38,933

And landscape's completely changed.

00:52:38,933 --> 00:52:39,323

Yeah.

00:52:39,323 --> 00:52:42,793

And you just saying something

about the NDA, just kind of

00:52:42,823 --> 00:52:44,143

made me think of that somehow.

00:52:44,143 --> 00:52:45,433

I feel like we need to.

00:52:46,073 --> 00:52:50,293

Put a little, bit of grace or

a little gap in between that.

00:52:50,343 --> 00:52:55,421

My value as an individual

and the well, the.

00:52:55,421 --> 00:52:57,161

Um, the course.

00:52:57,971 --> 00:52:59,261

Hmm.

00:52:59,981 --> 00:53:01,361

Like the status of your business?

00:53:01,391 --> 00:53:01,931

Yes.

00:53:02,021 --> 00:53:02,441

Yeah.

00:53:02,651 --> 00:53:07,571

It's really easy for those two things

to get really deeply intertwined.

00:53:07,781 --> 00:53:08,141

Yeah.

00:53:08,201 --> 00:53:10,841

I mean, I definitely, especially,

I mean, this is all you have,

00:53:10,901 --> 00:53:12,281

like, I dunno kids, I'm single.

00:53:12,581 --> 00:53:12,971

I'm.

00:53:13,601 --> 00:53:16,511

I am my business for all

intents and purposes.

00:53:16,541 --> 00:53:17,111

And.

00:53:17,741 --> 00:53:20,591

When one aspect of that.

00:53:20,755 --> 00:53:23,065

Is put at risk or there's something

that happens in your personal

00:53:23,065 --> 00:53:24,475

life that makes you question.

00:53:24,865 --> 00:53:25,855

The future of it.

00:53:25,885 --> 00:53:28,405

It startles your foundation.

00:53:28,435 --> 00:53:28,705

Yeah.

00:53:28,915 --> 00:53:33,065

And, , I think that I would

imagine every business owner.

00:53:33,395 --> 00:53:37,055

Large or small, you wouldn't be

in it if your identity wasn't

00:53:37,055 --> 00:53:38,765

also so tightly wound to it.

00:53:39,075 --> 00:53:42,735

But being able to separate the two and

know that if something happens here, I

00:53:42,735 --> 00:53:44,775

am still a whole and worthy human being.

00:53:44,835 --> 00:53:45,075

Yeah.

00:53:45,075 --> 00:53:46,695

Very important lesson to learn.

00:53:47,685 --> 00:53:48,945

I hate that something.

00:53:48,945 --> 00:53:54,285

So news is upsetting as you've gotten

about your brother is what's, you know,

00:53:54,645 --> 00:53:57,495

invited you to re reassess that, but.

00:53:58,005 --> 00:53:59,805

It's fucking life.

00:54:00,075 --> 00:54:00,465

Yeah.

00:54:00,555 --> 00:54:04,875

And it's, you know, it's just

one of those sort of big shifts.

00:54:05,415 --> 00:54:05,685

Yeah.