In this episode, Gary chats with Jeff Bajorek, founder and principal of Parabola Consulting. With two decades of sales experience, Jeff shares insights on selling with authenticity, uncovering organizational blind spots, and understanding why customers buy. The conversation covers improving customer relationships, leveraging unique value propositions, and the importance of genuinely believing in the product you sell. Jeff also discusses his Seven Steps to Sell Like You framework and delves into how organizations can better understand and serve their best customers. For those looking to enhance their sales team's performance, Jeff offers practical advice and resources available on his website.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

00:57 Jeff Bajorek's Background and Career Journey

03:11 Understanding Sales Blind Spots

06:59 Strategies for Sales Success

10:54 The Importance of Customer Relationships

15:28 Navigating Corporate Challenges

19:40 Ethics and Modern Sales Practices

24:34 Believing in Your Product

28:44 Jeff Bajorek's Consulting Services

32:04 Conclusion and Contact Information

jeffbajorek.com/blindspots

linkedin.com/in/jeffbajorek

[00:00:18] Jeff Bajorek: Thanks Gary, good to be here. I, I, you know, we were chatting a little bit before we recorded. I don't know how we lived so close to each other for so long, and this is our first time actually getting a talk, but yeah, happy to, happy to cut it up with you today.

[00:00:45] Jeff Bajorek: Well, hopefully my accent isn't too pronounced for your listeners who are used to something else and, you know, we can, we can have a good session here.

[00:00:56] Jeff Bajorek: That's fair.

[00:01:08] Jeff Bajorek: Sure. Geez, I've been selling now for 21 years. I feel younger than someone who, you know, I feel like I'm younger than someone who would say that, but then when I look at the calendar, that's what it is. I spent the first 11 years of my career in orthopedic medical device sales. And when the best job I'd ever had was no longer the best job for me, I decided to own, or I'm sorry, I decided to start, and now I own a coaching and consulting company that helps salespeople better understand how to sell in a way that is authentic to them, that they can feel good about doing, and motivated to go out and grow their businesses. Without feeling like, I don't think, like they're taking something away from people or, you know, they're not a good human, you know, because they're in sales. It's funny, I, I joke around because, you, you know, I like to say that my mom has a hard time reconciling who I am and what I do. And I've never had a hard time reconciling that. But I think a lot of people grow up with this impression that salespeople are trying to take things. I was brought up at a time and, and trained and mentored by someone who showed me that selling is really nothing more than solving problems, and bringing your own unique point of view to those problems so you can solve them in a way that other people wouldn't be able to. And I've leveraged that, you know, motivation and, and really, I've leveraged the feeling that I get from solving complicated problems to help sales teams in multiple industries get a better feel on how they interact with their customers, how they build relationships, how they build loyalty, and ultimately how they grow their businesses efficiently without having to do so many of those, well, let's call them dissatisfying activities, right?

Like the, you know, all the networking, all of the prospecting, the cold outreach. I mean, that's the, if you do it right, you can minimize how much of that unsavory stuff you have to do.

[00:03:31] Jeff Bajorek: Sure. It,

[00:03:33] Jeff Bajorek: it, you know, a couple of years ago, I developed a framework that I used with all my training and consulting engagements. It's called the Seven Steps to Sell Like You. And step one is know yourself, step two is know your best customers. And I think those represent the biggest two blind spots that most sales organizations have. When I say know yourself, the, the first things you need to think about are, you know, what makes you different in the marketplace? What makes that difference valuable? And why do. Those differences matter, right? What are the outcomes that your differences can provide? And most people will say, oh, we actually care about our customer's business, unlike our competitors.

Or they'll say, well, you know, I've got great relationships and I know the industry for a long time. And it's like, okay, I, I understand the feeling behind that. But I don't think you, I don't, I don't think that means what you think it means to someone who, you know, can't quite articulate what it is that you do. Because, you know, when you look at, look at any company out there who's got three or four primary competitors in the marketplace. Line up all their websites next to each other just and, and remove the branding and the colors, right? But if you just took the copy from those websites, and I've actually done this exercise with clients before, you're gonna have a hard time telling which company is which.

And what's really funny. Is when you ask some of these reps to identify which website is theirs and they pick their competitors, that's when you know that there's a lot of watering down of the messaging out there. And, and Gary, you're a marketing guy, you know this stuff is important, but you, you know, you have to mind that balance between what we do here and what the market expects to talk about.

Right? So it's a really fine line you have to walk. Well, after a while all that messaging just kind of runs together. And so what do you have? Well, you have relationships, you have knowledge, you have expertise and guidance and things like that. But you can't put that copy on a website. And you also, as a rep, you wanna, you wanna speak clearly, you wanna speak in language that your prospects and your customers can understand.

You also wanna, well let's just say you, you don't wanna be so vulnerable that it's uncomfortable for you to be out there talking about things that might not work. Well, most companies fall into this trap where they can talk about what they do, but they can't talk about why they're so good at it. And there's a lot of psychology that goes into that too, but that's blind spot number one. Blind spot number two is even when you have a pretty good hypothesis of what makes you different, you haven't validated that with your best customers. And what I like to say is if I ask a hundred salespeople, you know, why their best customers buy from them, five would know because they've asked. 15 are pretty intuitive and you know, they're picking up on subtleties and remembering things, so they guess right. But 80 would be shocked. And with 80% of the salespeople out there being totally unaware of the actual reasons that their best customers buy from them, it becomes impossible to replicate. Which means that you're working harder than you need to in order to find new customers.

And whether that's growing or just, you know, making up and, and filling up the gaps from some attrition that might happen. And so when we talk about blind spots, those are the big two I think.

And yeah, they, eight of them have a pretty generic answer. You're like, okay, that sounds right. How, how do you actually figure out what, what the real answer is to something like that?

But when 25 to 45% of your sales force is meeting the expectations of the company, it's a problem. Right, because there's a, a lack of alignment between the delivery and the expected delivery, right? So to, to discover those blind spots and to give specificity to them, you need to acknowledge that what you're doing right now probably isn't as good as it could be. And that means that, you know, what we've been doing thus far is not getting the results that we're looking for. So we need to change the inputs in order to change the outputs and choose your hard. Do you wanna go out there without the right tools and work harder than necessary to hopefully accomplish something or, yeah, maybe we work on the tool set a little bit. Maybe we get comfortable inside the office or inside, you know, our brains. And then we go out and test something that has a higher likelihood of, of, of working and, and winning. And so that's step one is really get specific where you haven't before. Step two is take it to your best customers. The ones that you feel safe with, the ones you can get a little vulnerable with. And you have these deep, meaningful conversations that have a lot of benefits I can go into if you want. But you know, identifying what makes you different than validating what makes you valuable to your best customers so you can go find more customers like them.

[00:11:09] Jeff Bajorek: You know, when I can be more specific than I've been I'll, I'll still have to be a little bit generic. But you know, the real reasons end up coming back you know, you're doing things for me that I didn't expect you to do. You understand me in a way that I didn't expect to be understood or that other people don't understand me.

You understand the in-between stuff. The workings of, you know, the organization here, right? Like, it, it's, it's not about delivering product. It's about the way you work within my systems, the way you read the room, if I'm the customer, the way you read the room. You know, the, the way you understand when to call, when not to call, the, the way you communicate. A lot of times it's the presence you have when you're, when you're in person, you know, are you someone that makes people feel safe? Or are you someone that you know, you, you come in with, you know, a bad energy and you disrupt everything, you know, in the operation. It's a lot of this touchy-feely stuff that, that people tend to stay away from, right?

In business we're taught that we can measure what we can manage, or sorry, we can manage what we can measure. And it's harder to measure some of these intangibles, but there is that feeling that comes along with asking those questions. There is the feeling that comes along with a really good customer relationship. In my last full-time role before I started my business, I went to my biggest customer in a hospital that you and I have both got familiarity with living where we live. And I remember sitting down with the two people, they were my biggest account, one of the biggest accounts that the company had. And I sat down and I said, I have to let you know at the end of this month, I'm, I'm leaving this company and without missing a beat, the, you know, first lieutenant, I was there with the director and, and her first lieutenant. And this first lieutenant says, what are we gonna do without you? I felt hurt because I cared deeply about these people and I didn't wanna let them down.

But I also felt at the same time, like, did I just win? I think I just won. Right? Like that was the point. You become indispensable in ways that are difficult to describe. But when I go back and think about the things that I did with them, and I was in medical device sales, we were talking about this a little while ago, you know?

I managed conversations with their surgeons. I orchestrated the schedule. I did more than just maintain inventory. You know, I, I saw where I could help them. I saw where I could help them, whether it was with my product or, you know, they should pick something up from a competitor. You know, I was there as an asset to their department, not just a rep and, and a, and a trusted vendor, right? And, you know, when you really dig deep, it's like, okay, what does it mean to be a trusted vendor? Okay, well, it means showing up on time. It means making sure stuff is delivered on time. It means being proactive about concerns. It means being proactive about problems and returns when they inevitably happen.

It means all of these things, and when you get more granular like that, you start to recognize what it takes to be a really successful rep. And then you start to remember why it's easy for Joe, who's been doing this for 20 years to tell Sarah who's, you know, brand new in the role. Oh kid, just develop great relationships and pick up the phone when they call, right? Like it's, it's a hard thing to articulate even when you know it.

I was like. I, I, I don't think I need that right now. I mean, like, they, they had done nothing to build up me having any desire to, any extra desire or show any extra, you know, effort that was gonna get me to sign a, a contract that day, which it was, I don't, I don't know that it ever worked for any rep that did, but that was, you know, right.

The managers, you know, breathing down their necks. It's like, Hey, we gotta hit, you know this number. Get, get it done. And so it's like that, that's the last, you know, that's the only thing they knew how to do at that point was, well, we can discount it, can we, can we get a sale.

I was not gonna lose this portion of my revenue, which by the way is a hundred percent commission at the time. So this was gonna be a hit. I was gonna be on the market, right? But I remember calling my customers, so, because the hospital wants this. But the hospital doesn't deal with me every day. The people in that department at the hospital deal with me.

They were gonna vouch for me, but they kind of had to play neutral middleman. Right. but my surgeon customers, I called them and I said, here's what the hospital wants to do. And they said, no. Here's the reason, Jeff. We like your product better. It feels better in our hands. The data out there shows that it's worth, you know, using.

And, oh, by the way, Jeff, we just don't have problems. We don't have customer service issues. And oh, by the way, when we do have customer service issues, Jeff, we get you. You, I'll sign anything you want, Jeff, but administration's not moving back to your competitor. We're gonna use what we want to use, or I'll take my business elsewhere. That's the kind of thing you can't put on a website, right? That's the kind of thing that, you know, it allows you as a sales rep to think more specifically, or you as a marketer to help you think more specifically about the things that you are driving for that business. And it helps you communicate in ways that really get at the motives of your very best customers, because I think you know, one of the things that gets lost in all the top of funnel, new acquisition stuff, who are we acquiring? Now I say this all the time, you'll never have a better day in sales than when you fire your worst customer. Well, why do we attract people who could be our worst customers? We could focus on replicating the ones that we love doing business with the most, the ones who love doing business with us the most. And now we get more than a transaction. We get more than a relationship. We get real fulfillment out of the people that we get to work with every day, and that is something that is achievable if you're willing to do the hard work first.

So choose your hard.

[00:18:17] Jeff Bajorek: Hmm.

So pretty much, you know, like clockwork, it's, you know, all my, you know, agreements with the offices in the United States that I worked with, because they're a big global consulting firm. So all the ones in the US he is like, oh, well this isn't, nope, we need to cut that, need to cut that, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna bring it in-house, or something like that.

So, you know, we, we wrapped it all up and, you know, turned it all back over and now, you know, it's the end of the year here. And, more, I've gotten more business from them, from the individual offices and they're like, can we please come back?

[00:18:57] Gary Ruplinger: Because the, the, the corporate, you know, methodology for this sucks, that they wanted to put in place.

So. and you know, it was one of those, built a relationship with them, worked with them for years and, you know, really worked together, you know, send them. Right, right. We're, as we're recording this, it's, just before Christmas and when it comes out, it'll be a little bit, it'll be the new year, but you know, they get Christmas, you know, packages from me, just little, little gifts and things you saying, Hey, you know, I think, you know, just appreciate the, the work we do together, types of things.

And, that's, you know, brings them back to the day, you know, even, even after, you know, somebody comes in and like. We're cutting, cutting all this. We don't need it anymore, so.

And if there was no business purpose, not only would I not get reimbursed for it, I was told not to spend that money. Right, because it was considered an enticement. And, we're seeing that in other, you know, in, in other, industries as well. And I think what is, you know, I'm, I'm talking a lot about being specific.

I'm talking about finding your best customers, you know, all that thing or all those things. But used to be that your expense account could buy attention. And because of restrictions in the industries, because of the way, quite frankly guys our age, spend their time differently. You know, I, I don't wanna go play golf with a stranger. I have a hard time finding time to play golf with my friends. You know, I don't want to go to that new fancy restaurant in town. I mean, well, of course I do, but if I go without my wife, I'm gonna be in trouble, right? Like, and, and by the way, I can afford a steak dinner. So it's like, it's, it's one of those things where the, the whining, the dining, the entertaining, while it's still very valuable, it's harder to leverage now for new relationships. And so the way you get people's attention is by speaking very specifically about the value you can provide for them. You have to be someone worth talking to. You have to have something worth talking about, and it has to justify the time investment you're asking for somebody. And, you know, that was one of the things that I learned really early on when I thought, okay, well I'll have an expense account and I can, you know, put on events and things like that.

And then it was right before I took that job, all the, the landscape started to change and they're like, nope. That's not how this works anymore.

[00:22:00] Jeff Bajorek: so,

go ahead I'm sure you can relate

But they've been working on it. And you know what, our, the president of the company had, you know, come down with ethics policies and said, you can't accept gifts above this much. If it is, it just goes straight to corporate. Just put, put it in the intercompany mail. It's ours. You don't get to keep whatever that is.

So. I remember like one of our, you know, employees was like, guy brought me cookies. He is like, so are you sending that back to corporate? You're probably supposed to, right? And I was like, yeah, I'm probably supposed to, but I'm not going to. It's cookies. But that was, that was the mentality there. I was accepting gifts was not allowed for, for that because they didn't want people to think that, oh, they can just basically bribe. Because that's what people had done. And especially in that industry, it was, you, you hear stories all the time of, you know, guys getting, you know, kickbacks from vendors to use their services or, you know, getting, you know, new, new washing and not washing machine and dryer installed in their house because they signed up with this vendor and, you know. It was like, it is the wild west out there. So I, I totally understand the, the ethics side of it and needing to clamp down on some of it, even though it's, you know, obviously it worked. That's, that's why.

I mean, it's, it's, it's really incredible and it's just something that, wasn't tested for a long time. And now because it's had to be tested, I think we're learning things.

At what point can you say, yeah, it's, it's good enough? It's not, it's not a rip off. It's just not, you know, it's also not the best though.

And then you start to put it in front of more people who this isn't just good enough for, it's something that makes things, that makes the impossible possible. Now you're onto something. So might be good enough for you, but it's perfect for somebody else. Why?

[00:28:41] Jeff Bajorek: I do my best.

[00:28:55] Jeff Bajorek: Well, first thing I do, and there's an assessment on my website you can go to. It's jeffbajorek.com/blindspots. And you know, you mentioned these blind spots, we talked about them at the beginning. There's a very brief self-assessment, takes you less than 10 minutes and I'll give you some insights right away that'll help you just decide how you wanna change the things inside your organization. Whether or not you wanna do them on your own, whether or not you have someone in place that you could work with to do this, or if you wanna call me and, and have me, you know, help. But, I do think I, I work with sales teams in a couple of ways. I, I do sales training, I do some consulting and some leadership coaching, and I also do some, a little bit of sales coaching on an individual basis when it's necessary, right. You know, I started my business as a sales trainer, but what I recognized really early on was that the training is only as good as the people who demand that it gets implemented inside the organization. So I can come in and train, I can write the books, I can record the videos, I can give you all the information that you need. But unless there's a leader holding the reps accountable to the behavior change, the results are gonna stay the same, right? And, you know, it's, it's, another thing that's kind of come along with AI is, you know, the cost of knowledge is going through the floor. It's quickly approaching zero, but the value of expertise has never been higher. And so, you know, I, I want to make sure that I leave an organization with the expertise to use those lessons, more than I'm concerned about making sure they have access to the material. So my business has more, from more training into more consulting and advisory work. But, you know, there are things inside an organization that prevent that organization from thriving. And so I help companies identify what those blind spots are, including the two I already talked about.

But you also have, you know, are the right people in the right roles? Is your comp plan, you know where it needs to be? Are they enabled? Do they have the tools that they need? Do they feel, do the team, does the team feel like they're prepared to go out there? And, and those are things that I help remediate as well.

So, kind of runs the gamut in terms of what you need me for. But there are a lot of resources that I can deploy to help teams get better.

[00:31:14] Jeff Bajorek: It, it, it ranges. I, typically in the five to 15 reps range, I've trained. I've got a, a, an organization, right now I'm training about 50 reps. It's a virtual organization, so we just do a couple of different cohorts. You know, if we're training virtually, then, you know, we have to make sure that the room is manageable enough and probably 30 or so in a room is, is still manageable. When I'm training in person, it's, you know, the, the rooms can only be so big usually. But I mean, I've, I've trained in rooms with several hundred people and I've trained in rooms with just four or five people in them. It really depends on the company and what they need, but, I, I find a typical engagement for me is five to 15 reps or so.

[00:32:19] Jeff Bajorek: Yeah, jeffbajorek.com is the website, forward slash blind spots is, if you want to go in and take the assessment, it's totally free. Go check it out, you'll learn something. Or you can find me on LinkedIn, just at Jeff Bajorek.

[00:32:40] Jeff Bajorek: Thanks Gary. Good to be here.