When your department side-eyes your comprehensible input teaching, it can feel isolating—this episode shares real strategies, survival tips, and encouragement for CI teachers.

🎁 Grab your free CI Survival Kit here: https://imim.us/survival — your go-to resource for staying confident and effective with comprehensible input in the classroom.

In this episode of Comprehend THIS!, we sit down with Jackie Deming-Plunk and Kelly Ferguson to talk about what happens when colleagues and departments aren’t exactly cheering for your CI approach. From awkward meetings to subtle digs, we cover the real struggles teachers face—and more importantly, the practical strategies that help you keep your sanity, win over skeptics, and stay true to acquisition-driven instruction. Whether you’re the lone CI voice in your building or just navigating some side-eye, this conversation will remind you that you’re not alone.

#ComprehensibleInput, #LanguageTeaching, #WorldLanguageTeachers, #CITeaching, #AcquisitionDrivenInstruction, #LanguageTeachers, #SpanishTeachers, #LanguageTeachingTips, #TeacherSupport, #CISurvival

Hosts:

• Scott Benedict - https://www.instagram.com/immediateimmersion
• Jackie Deming-Plunk
• Kelly Ferguson - https://www.instagram.com/kelferg17

Resources & Links:

• Dynamic Discipline: https://imim.us/discipline
• CI Survival Kit: https://imim.us/survival

Join the Conversation:

Got thoughts or your own story? Share it in the comments or tag us @ImmediateImmersion!

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<b>Good morning, everybody.</b>

<b>Welcome to comprehend this.</b>

<b>How is everybody doing this morning?</b>

<b>Today we've got some great guests online.</b>

<b>We've got Jackie with us again.</b>

<b>She's been on before.</b>

<b>We've all loved her before.</b>

<b>And now we've got Kelly</b>

<b>Ferguson joining us today.</b>

<b>And today's topic is when your</b>

<b>department side eyes your CI.</b>

<b>Let's go ahead and welcome</b>

<b>them both online with us.</b>

<b>And if I can hit the right button.</b>

<b>There we go.</b>

<b>Good morning, Jackie and Kelly.</b>

<b>How are we doing this morning?</b>

<b>Good morning.</b>

<b>Doing great.</b>

<b>Well, just want to introduce you guys.</b>

<b>Jackie go ahead and give us just a little</b>

<b>bit about yourself</b>

<b>before we go and then Kelly</b>

<b>as well.</b>

<b>What are our intro videos?</b>

<b>Well, I am a Spanish teacher</b>

<b>in Southern Western Tennessee.</b>

<b>This is my eighth year teaching.</b>

<b>And I've been using CI for basically my</b>

<b>entire career at this point.</b>

<b>Awesome.</b>

<b>Awesome.</b>

<b>Yeah, so I'm Kelly.</b>

<b>I teach Spanish in Madison, Wisconsin.</b>

<b>Whereas everybody else hears</b>

<b>it when I say it, Wisconsin.</b>

<b>And I have been doing some type of CI</b>

<b>since probably about</b>

<b>1999, 2000 when I went to my</b>

<b>first TPRS workshop.</b>

<b>Awesome.</b>

<b>So great to have you both.</b>

<b>Let's go into our intro and our preview</b>

<b>videos and then we'll go</b>

<b>ahead and get started here.</b>

<b>Let me switch screens again.</b>

<b>I'm not used to doing this lately.</b>

<b>I've been on to practice for two weeks.</b>

<b>Here we go.</b>

<b>There we go.</b>

<b>So ever been in a department meeting</b>

<b>where you're gushing</b>

<b>about how your students are</b>

<b>actually speaking the language and</b>

<b>someone across the table</b>

<b>hits you with the side eye.</b>

<b>So you're so hard, you</b>

<b>almost fall out of your chair.</b>

<b>That's what today's episode is all about.</b>

<b>We're talking about what happens when</b>

<b>your colleagues aren't</b>

<b>exactly throwing you a CI</b>

<b>parade and how to survive it without</b>

<b>throwing your whiteboard</b>

<b>marker across the room.</b>

<b>With us are Kelly Ferguson and Jackie</b>

<b>Deming-Plunk, two teachers</b>

<b>who've been here, side eye and</b>

<b>all.</b>

<b>Go ahead and we'll be right back after</b>

<b>these two short messages.</b>

<b>Ever feel like you're clinging to the</b>

<b>edge of your teacher</b>

<b>planner, just hoping today's</b>

<b>lesson magically appears?</b>

<b>Enter the CI Survival Kit, a monthly</b>

<b>membership made for</b>

<b>teachers who love comprehensible</b>

<b>input, but also love not reinventing the</b>

<b>wheel every Sunday night.</b>

<b>Each month you get fresh, ready to use</b>

<b>lessons, time saving</b>

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<b>from someone who gets it.</b>

<b>Sign up at mm.us.survival and let the</b>

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<b>heavy lifting for once.</b>

<b>Welcome to Comprehend This, Real Talk for</b>

<b>Real Language Teachers.</b>

<b>No drills, no dry theory, just honest</b>

<b>stories, practical ideas,</b>

<b>and a reminder you're not</b>

<b>alone in the CI trenches.</b>

<b>Let's dive in.</b>

<b>And we're back.</b>

<b>So welcome again.</b>

<b>So we're talking about the side eyes when</b>

<b>your department or your fellow colleagues</b>

<b>or your district, whatever it might be,</b>

<b>kind of gives you a side</b>

<b>eye to what you're doing.</b>

<b>It doesn't exactly</b>

<b>wholeheartedly belong to the CI world.</b>

<b>Let's start with you, Jackson, since</b>

<b>you've been here before</b>

<b>and you kind of know how</b>

<b>we're going here.</b>

<b>So when did you first realize that your</b>

<b>department or team wasn't</b>

<b>totally on board with CI?</b>

<b>So I kind of pushed for it at my first</b>

<b>school that I taught at.</b>

<b>In my second year teaching, we ended up</b>

<b>with two new Spanish teachers.</b>

<b>So I was the only one</b>

<b>who had been there before.</b>

<b>I only had a year of experience teaching,</b>

<b>but I was kind of like the most go-getter</b>

<b>with it.</b>

<b>And so I kind of pushed for</b>

<b>us going in this direction.</b>

<b>And both of the other teachers had been</b>

<b>teaching for longer than</b>

<b>me, one of them a lot longer.</b>

<b>And she was a lot used to a very</b>

<b>different environment.</b>

<b>So it kind of intimidated her, I think.</b>

<b>And the other guy was just, he was there</b>

<b>to get a paycheck and coach football.</b>

<b>I mean, he didn't really</b>

<b>care one way or another.</b>

<b>And I actually recently found out that he</b>

<b>has continued using CI</b>

<b>in his classroom when</b>

<b>he is being a more active teacher.</b>

<b>So that was encouraging to find out the</b>

<b>other one at that time.</b>

<b>She's I think left</b>

<b>teaching at this point, possibly.</b>

<b>Or she's not</b>

<b>specifically teaching Spanish.</b>

<b>I'm not exactly sure who's lost touch.</b>

<b>So that was kind of the first</b>

<b>time I got pushed back on it.</b>

<b>I've gotten pushed</b>

<b>back from admin before.</b>

<b>That usually goes away</b>

<b>once they do an observation.</b>

<b>And then I got it some at my second</b>

<b>school, but I tried to</b>

<b>kind of just shut my door and</b>

<b>didn't care.</b>

<b>How about you, Kelly?</b>

<b>I actually encountered any sort of side</b>

<b>eye a little bit later.</b>

<b>Then after I had started doing some CI, I</b>

<b>left a job after</b>

<b>working in my first school</b>

<b>for five years.</b>

<b>And that's when I moved to Madison and</b>

<b>was no longer the only</b>

<b>like Spanish teacher or</b>

<b>one of two kind of just like in our</b>

<b>rooms, didn't really see</b>

<b>what each other were doing</b>

<b>as much.</b>

<b>And so I kind of flew under the radar.</b>

<b>Not that I was trying to be subversive,</b>

<b>but just so often we</b>

<b>don't really know what is</b>

<b>going on in other teachers classes.</b>

<b>But then, as you mentioned, at department</b>

<b>meetings, I would</b>

<b>start mentioning things.</b>

<b>And some of my colleagues were incredibly</b>

<b>traditional, very much</b>

<b>the final exam is 100</b>

<b>multiple choice questions that I can put</b>

<b>through the Scantron machine.</b>

<b>So it grades it instantly.</b>

<b>And this other teacher does a lot of real</b>

<b>tough work the first</b>

<b>week of school to scare</b>

<b>away the students that, in her words,</b>

<b>didn't deserve to be there</b>

<b>in her upper level classes.</b>

<b>And so some of these really like old</b>

<b>mindsets kind of, you</b>

<b>know, tied to some of the very,</b>

<b>very traditional ways that</b>

<b>teaching has always been done.</b>

<b>That's where the side</b>

<b>eyes started coming in.</b>

<b>And fortunately, it, you know, we still</b>

<b>kind of just shut the</b>

<b>door and four walls of the</b>

<b>classrooms.</b>

<b>It didn't have any</b>

<b>real consequences for me.</b>

<b>Other than the side eye.</b>

<b>Yeah.</b>

<b>Well, for me, when I first started</b>

<b>teaching, I started with C.I.</b>

<b>My second semester, my first school, and</b>

<b>I got talked to by my</b>

<b>department chair many</b>

<b>times about that was when the AP exam was</b>

<b>still focused on grammar.</b>

<b>And so they go, we are really great</b>

<b>teaching to the AP exam.</b>

<b>We really need to have some</b>

<b>explicit grammar in there.</b>

<b>And they used to always say for the</b>

<b>finals, oh, we're not</b>

<b>putting speaking on the final</b>

<b>because it takes it's too hard to grade.</b>

<b>And I'm like, I thought we were teaching</b>

<b>to the AP exam and</b>

<b>they're speaking on the</b>

<b>AP exam.</b>

<b>So we had that little battle.</b>

<b>I got laid off from that school and then</b>

<b>I got to work with</b>

<b>Carmen Andrews for a while,</b>

<b>for many years.</b>

<b>And so I was in a whole</b>

<b>TPRS type school district.</b>

<b>And then I moved to California and I</b>

<b>taught at middle school</b>

<b>and we were a whole C.I.</b>

<b>TPRS department.</b>

<b>So never had a problem.</b>

<b>I left middle school to go to high school</b>

<b>last year and got a</b>

<b>shock because this school</b>

<b>I trained in C.I. and thought and they</b>

<b>came and observed me</b>

<b>at the middle school.</b>

<b>So I thought that they were C.I.</b>

<b>That's why I chose the school.</b>

<b>And I get there and</b>

<b>they are no longer in C.I.</b>

<b>They're in their second</b>

<b>year of a strict textbook.</b>

<b>The textbook teaches time in the first</b>

<b>chapter, which I think is</b>

<b>really weird to teach time</b>

<b>so early in the year.</b>

<b>I'm supposed to start teaching it the</b>

<b>second week of school.</b>

<b>I'm thinking they</b>

<b>barely know the numbers yet.</b>

<b>You want me to start</b>

<b>teaching time to them.</b>

<b>And then they are not, they're very</b>

<b>traditional in their teaching.</b>

<b>Like what are we going</b>

<b>to put on our midterm?</b>

<b>Well, it depends on</b>

<b>where we get to at that time.</b>

<b>I need to plan ahead to make sure that</b>

<b>I'm covering, especially</b>

<b>since I'm a new teacher</b>

<b>at this school.</b>

<b>I don't know where even where I'm</b>

<b>supposed to even try to get to.</b>

<b>And they're still under this.</b>

<b>Well, we'll get to the final.</b>

<b>We'll tell you, we'll find out what's</b>

<b>going to be in the final</b>

<b>a week before we'll figure</b>

<b>it out because we'll find</b>

<b>out where we're going to be.</b>

<b>And I'm like, this was, and I got a</b>

<b>shocker at the midterm</b>

<b>because they didn't tell me</b>

<b>they went out of order in the chapters.</b>

<b>So a week before they say, oh, we're</b>

<b>really heavily, we go</b>

<b>chapter one, two, four, three.</b>

<b>Well, I went one, two, three.</b>

<b>Four was all the family</b>

<b>members and stuff like that.</b>

<b>And I hadn't even started that yet.</b>

<b>And that was all in the</b>

<b>final, on the midterm.</b>

<b>So I had to go and teach that.</b>

<b>And then when I saw them, they</b>

<b>specifically took all of</b>

<b>the stuff straight out of the</b>

<b>textbook.</b>

<b>So all the questions, all the things.</b>

<b>And a writing assessment for them was</b>

<b>answering single sentence</b>

<b>questions or fill in the blank</b>

<b>with the right verb.</b>

<b>That was the writing section of the test.</b>

<b>And then what threw me really off was</b>

<b>they had to do this</b>

<b>writing part, which made more</b>

<b>sense orally, but either</b>

<b>way, it was a waste of time.</b>

<b>You had to ask them the question, how do</b>

<b>you write your name?</b>

<b>But instead of responding orally to it,</b>

<b>they had to respond written to it.</b>

<b>And then nobody would ever respond to</b>

<b>that written because you</b>

<b>would just write out your</b>

<b>name.</b>

<b>But we had to write it out phonetically</b>

<b>in the spelling of the Spanish letters.</b>

<b>So if it was Michelle, they would have to</b>

<b>go, say escribé con emme emme mayuscula.</b>

<b>E, se, spelling it, C-E, ace, you know,</b>

<b>and spelling, no one</b>

<b>has ever in the history of</b>

<b>the world spelled out</b>

<b>their name that way.</b>

<b>It makes sense to do it orally, but it</b>

<b>makes no sense to do it written.</b>

<b>But that was on the test.</b>

<b>That was the writing part</b>

<b>for level one and the midterm.</b>

<b>That was the whole writing</b>

<b>part that they had to do.</b>

<b>So that was my kind of thing.</b>

<b>I'm lucky that I teach in a satellite</b>

<b>area where we do the</b>

<b>Career and Technical Academy.</b>

<b>So I'm in a satellite place four miles</b>

<b>down the street so no one sees what I do.</b>

<b>I cover everything I'm supposed to cover,</b>

<b>but it's just always a fight.</b>

<b>I got them to remove that question off.</b>

<b>So if we're going to do</b>

<b>it, let's do it orally.</b>

<b>And there was another question they were</b>

<b>doing that I was</b>

<b>like, really, do we really</b>

<b>need to spend all this time</b>

<b>on this type of a question?</b>

<b>Doesn't tell us anything.</b>

<b>And they're big about the standards.</b>

<b>But I'm like, answering that question</b>

<b>doesn't fulfill the standard.</b>

<b>And so that's kind of my thing.</b>

<b>It's not like I'm getting a side eye.</b>

<b>I'm just getting a,</b>

<b>well, this is what we do.</b>

<b>And this is very, we're</b>

<b>very, very, very traditional.</b>

<b>And I'm the only</b>

<b>non-native speaker in the bunch.</b>

<b>So that also makes it like fighting back</b>

<b>here, like we know</b>

<b>better because we're native</b>

<b>speakers.</b>

<b>And then I'm like, well, let's see, did</b>

<b>you learn to do it that way?</b>

<b>How many times have you spelled your name</b>

<b>phonetically in Spanish that way?</b>

<b>Being native speakers, how often was that</b>

<b>something that happened?</b>

<b>So I'm slowly getting them to be a little</b>

<b>bit more proficiently based.</b>

<b>But and they're really nice people.</b>

<b>They're, you know, they've got the best</b>

<b>intentions in mind, but</b>

<b>they're just stuck in the very</b>

<b>traditional way.</b>

<b>And the not backwards planning is really</b>

<b>drives me for a loop</b>

<b>because I need to plan and even</b>

<b>know what I need to cover.</b>

<b>And I can't find out the week before</b>

<b>midterms that I didn't</b>

<b>cover a whole section because</b>

<b>I didn't know it was</b>

<b>going to be on the test.</b>

<b>That's kind of where</b>

<b>the traditional fights in.</b>

<b>So there, there's still like in the 1990s</b>

<b>and early 2000s where</b>

<b>in my last school, we</b>

<b>were very backwards planning.</b>

<b>We knew we had common assessments that we</b>

<b>all planned in advance.</b>

<b>And they were, you know, we all knew what</b>

<b>they were going to be.</b>

<b>We didn't teach to the test, but we knew</b>

<b>where we're going to be.</b>

<b>And when we had to do it, and here it's</b>

<b>more willy-dilly kind of a thing.</b>

<b>It's wild.</b>

<b>That's amazing.</b>

<b>In 2025, not backwards planning.</b>

<b>I mean, I remember doing that back with</b>

<b>the text before, what chapter are you on?</b>

<b>Which, you know, every time you saw him</b>

<b>in the copper room,</b>

<b>which chapter are you on?</b>

<b>It was like a competition</b>

<b>who got to the chapters faster.</b>

<b>But it's funny because I went to a</b>

<b>presentation within my school district</b>

<b>done by Paul Sandrock,</b>

<b>who many of you may</b>

<b>know from from Actville.</b>

<b>He's from Wisconsin.</b>

<b>So we've been very fortunate that he like</b>

<b>lives down the road and is</b>

<b>always at our conferences</b>

<b>and such.</b>

<b>And I remember he asked us the question</b>

<b>in this workshop of how</b>

<b>do you know when you're</b>

<b>done teaching a certain topic?</b>

<b>How do you know when you're done with</b>

<b>that theme or that unit?</b>

<b>And I jokingly said, when you've done all</b>

<b>the pages in the</b>

<b>workbook, I may have said</b>

<b>that a little louder than I intended.</b>

<b>But he knew I was</b>

<b>being sarcastic about it.</b>

<b>And that really is where a lot of</b>

<b>teachers come from, is we're</b>

<b>given this textbook written</b>

<b>by people that we perceive as experts.</b>

<b>And I mean, who am I</b>

<b>to question the experts?</b>

<b>I'm just Kelly from Wisconsin.</b>

<b>And then, you know, they've</b>

<b>come up with these activities.</b>

<b>And so the textbook must be</b>

<b>a thorough way of doing this.</b>

<b>And it must be some magic to the order of</b>

<b>the things in the book.</b>

<b>And I think it's new that teachers are</b>

<b>being given or taking the</b>

<b>agency to really control</b>

<b>what they actually are teaching.</b>

<b>And a lot of teachers don't come from</b>

<b>that background of I can</b>

<b>decide what's right for</b>

<b>my students.</b>

<b>Because well, this textbook teaches</b>

<b>activities before it</b>

<b>teaches places to go.</b>

<b>And that must be the right way to do it.</b>

<b>And I can't flip it because the</b>

<b>activities in the textbook</b>

<b>for the places to go rely</b>

<b>on knowing the</b>

<b>vocabulary of the activities.</b>

<b>And it's, I think, a really big mind</b>

<b>shift for a lot of</b>

<b>teachers to just think that you</b>

<b>also have all the answers.</b>

<b>Yeah.</b>

<b>And now when we look at this book, when</b>

<b>we go to all of us</b>

<b>disagree with the order of</b>

<b>the teachers, that's kind of why they</b>

<b>keep rearranging the chapters.</b>

<b>But they, I mean, activities aren't even</b>

<b>taught to level two.</b>

<b>I mean, I can't even imagine because I</b>

<b>always start and I still</b>

<b>start my level twos and</b>

<b>my level ones the same way because they</b>

<b>don't get taught in level one.</b>

<b>I asked them what do they like to do?</b>

<b>What's their favorite activity?</b>

<b>That's something that</b>

<b>we can all bond around.</b>

<b>I mean, how do they not know how to play?</b>

<b>To say I play basketball until level two.</b>

<b>But they're telling time in week two.</b>

<b>The order of the stuff they put in there</b>

<b>just doesn't a lot of make sense.</b>

<b>And even though our book is online, it's</b>

<b>an online textbook, we</b>

<b>have the paper printed</b>

<b>versions, but I only use it online.</b>

<b>The electronics section, they have a</b>

<b>whole chapter on the</b>

<b>electronics and they're already</b>

<b>the stuff that they're talking about.</b>

<b>We don't use anymore.</b>

<b>They still got the DVD recorder and the</b>

<b>stuff that they do to have a DVR.</b>

<b>They do that in there and then they teach</b>

<b>us really long word</b>

<b>for streaming music and</b>

<b>streaming thing.</b>

<b>I'm like, come on, people</b>

<b>don't even say that in English.</b>

<b>We just say Spotify or</b>

<b>YouTube music or Apple music.</b>

<b>We don't say I listen to a online</b>

<b>streaming service that does</b>

<b>music, you know, those kinds</b>

<b>of things.</b>

<b>Like even my kids, like when am I ever</b>

<b>going to use this vocabulary?</b>

<b>I'm like, you're right.</b>

<b>Let's just cross this one off.</b>

<b>Cross it off.</b>

<b>Because it makes sense some of the</b>

<b>vocabulary that they have</b>

<b>in there and the order that</b>

<b>they put it in, it just it</b>

<b>doesn't always make sense.</b>

<b>So it's been a while since I had to work</b>

<b>from a textbook, but I</b>

<b>remember what a traditional</b>

<b>I've worked like in</b>

<b>three textbooks before.</b>

<b>And this order, I don't know where they</b>

<b>got this order from.</b>

<b>I've never seen one so haphazard before.</b>

<b>Well, and that's the thing that always</b>

<b>like has befuddled me</b>

<b>about textbooks is like it's</b>

<b>always such low frequency vocab and it's</b>

<b>like always out of date.</b>

<b>You know, like I just I've never</b>

<b>understood why they</b>

<b>structure things the way they do.</b>

<b>It's like I'm honestly surprised that</b>

<b>there isn't a textbook</b>

<b>yet that takes the idea</b>

<b>of like Super 7 16 and front load that</b>

<b>and then start doing</b>

<b>other things like it would</b>

<b>do it just makes so much more sense to me</b>

<b>because when I first</b>

<b>started teaching my thought</b>

<b>process was oh, I'm going to teach him</b>

<b>how to conjugate all</b>

<b>the verbs like the first</b>

<b>two weeks of class because their</b>

<b>conjugation Spanish is not</b>

<b>hard unless you make it hard,</b>

<b>you know, but I can teach all of the</b>

<b>president's conjugations in</b>

<b>like what two weeks maybe.</b>

<b>And then we just spend the rest of the</b>

<b>semester playing with it</b>

<b>and like talking about stuff</b>

<b>and building in the rest of the vocab.</b>

<b>I mean, it didn't work.</b>

<b>I'm going to put that out there.</b>

<b>It did not work.</b>

<b>But I also didn't know what I was doing</b>

<b>because I was a first year teacher.</b>

<b>So like, you know, but it's</b>

<b>just it's no strange thing.</b>

<b>Like I just don't understand how these</b>

<b>textbook writers think.</b>

<b>No.</b>

<b>And I remember Bill Van Patten saying he</b>

<b>said the way the textbooks</b>

<b>because he made a textbook</b>

<b>that didn't have grammar in it.</b>

<b>I forgot what he called it, but it didn't</b>

<b>sell because they were</b>

<b>they're flipping through</b>

<b>the book and they couldn't find any the</b>

<b>grammar boxes, you know,</b>

<b>the conjugation boxes and</b>

<b>all that stuff.</b>

<b>So then he just haphazardly</b>

<b>said then I made this textbook.</b>

<b>I took the exact same textbook.</b>

<b>I didn't change anything, but I added</b>

<b>grammar charts to it and started to sell.</b>

<b>I didn't do anything different.</b>

<b>Just added the grammar charts because</b>

<b>that's what they're</b>

<b>looking for and it started to</b>

<b>sell.</b>

<b>But he always says that textbooks always</b>

<b>put first what's easiest</b>

<b>to teach, not necessarily</b>

<b>what's easiest to learn because they'll</b>

<b>put gender and verb and</b>

<b>gender and adjective agreement</b>

<b>first, which are really difficult</b>

<b>concepts for English</b>

<b>speakers because we don't have</b>

<b>that.</b>

<b>And he goes and subjunctive isn't coming</b>

<b>to level three when</b>

<b>actually subjunctive is really</b>

<b>easy to do.</b>

<b>It's not easy to explain as a teacher,</b>

<b>but it's really easy.</b>

<b>It's one of the early tenses that kids</b>

<b>acquire who naturally acquire the</b>

<b>language do it really</b>

<b>early.</b>

<b>And he goes textbooks have always</b>

<b>arranged themselves that way.</b>

<b>And Kelly, you're so right when teachers</b>

<b>like when we first was</b>

<b>it 2002, 2003, I can't</b>

<b>remember right around there.</b>

<b>We were going to be adopting a new</b>

<b>textbook and we had this</b>

<b>textbook called Yavadas, which</b>

<b>they had been using for a long time and</b>

<b>they didn't explain it</b>

<b>to us and standards were</b>

<b>just coming out.</b>

<b>So we really didn't</b>

<b>have the good concept.</b>

<b>They said write down the things that you</b>

<b>want to teach and when</b>

<b>you want to teach them so</b>

<b>that the idea was behind it that once we</b>

<b>got that down, we</b>

<b>were going to look for a</b>

<b>textbook that kind of went with what we</b>

<b>thought was important to teach.</b>

<b>But what did we do?</b>

<b>We went back to our old textbook and</b>

<b>says, well, when do they teach that?</b>

<b>We'll put that there.</b>

<b>When do they teach that?</b>

<b>But we couldn't think for ourselves and</b>

<b>just say, we are language teachers.</b>

<b>This is what our kids</b>

<b>need to know in level one.</b>

<b>And this is what our kids need to know at</b>

<b>the end of level two.</b>

<b>They couldn't do that kind of a thing.</b>

<b>That's where some teachers are still</b>

<b>stuck and they get the</b>

<b>textbook and they can only</b>

<b>teach it in that particular order and</b>

<b>they can't think for themselves.</b>

<b>They say, okay, I've got to use the</b>

<b>textbook and I've got to</b>

<b>get know this by the midterm</b>

<b>or the final, but I can rearrange the</b>

<b>order of it and teach it</b>

<b>however I want up until</b>

<b>that point as long as they get to that</b>

<b>same point at the end.</b>

<b>I always think of it like if we're all</b>

<b>going to go to a</b>

<b>conference, let's say we're going</b>

<b>to go to a conference in San Antonio, we</b>

<b>all get there a different way.</b>

<b>Some of us are close</b>

<b>enough to where we can drive.</b>

<b>Some of us take the train</b>

<b>because we don't like to fly.</b>

<b>Some people fly, but we all get to the</b>

<b>same place and it</b>

<b>doesn't matter how we got there</b>

<b>as long as we get to the same place.</b>

<b>And that's kind of what a lot of</b>

<b>teachers, they don't</b>

<b>think that they have the power</b>

<b>to do that.</b>

<b>Yes.</b>

<b>Yeah, I agree.</b>

<b>So how did you guys deal with any of that</b>

<b>pushback or that for</b>

<b>teachers who are going</b>

<b>through it now, how</b>

<b>are you combating that?</b>

<b>Is it just keeping your door closed and</b>

<b>not speaking, which is</b>

<b>kind of like what I did</b>

<b>last year.</b>

<b>I kept my mouth shut most of the time.</b>

<b>Or are you trying to actively or</b>

<b>subversively add in some</b>

<b>more CI type activities or how</b>

<b>are you handling the situation or how did</b>

<b>you handle that situation?</b>

<b>Whoever would like to go first.</b>

<b>Sure, I'll let you start.</b>

<b>Yeah, thanks.</b>

<b>I think the thing that is most successful</b>

<b>when you're getting</b>

<b>pushback is to make sure</b>

<b>you are not trying to shove</b>

<b>too much towards everybody.</b>

<b>I know I went to my first TPRS workshop.</b>

<b>Donna Tatum Johns did a demo in French.</b>

<b>I still remember, "Ilette Arrive," and</b>

<b>the gesture for arriving.</b>

<b>I arrived on a plane from</b>

<b>that workshop like 26 years ago.</b>

<b>Obviously, when you see a demo of a</b>

<b>lesson, when you get to</b>

<b>experience comprehensible</b>

<b>input in a language you don't know and</b>

<b>you are so amazed at</b>

<b>how much language you seem</b>

<b>to have acquired in just a few minutes,</b>

<b>it's really easy to go</b>

<b>back and be super overzealous</b>

<b>which anytime you want to convince</b>

<b>someone of something, being too</b>

<b>overzealous is always</b>

<b>a turnoff.</b>

<b>I used to work in retail and they said,</b>

<b>"No one wants to be sold anything.</b>

<b>Everybody wants to buy something."</b>

<b>I think that just like if you have</b>

<b>friends or maybe you are</b>

<b>that friend who got involved</b>

<b>in a business opportunity, multi-level</b>

<b>marketing, all of that, and</b>

<b>immediately every conversation</b>

<b>turns to this revolutionary yoga pants or</b>

<b>Tupperware or</b>

<b>whatever that there's nothing</b>

<b>wrong with the product.</b>

<b>It's probably a great product, however, I</b>

<b>don't need you to just</b>

<b>everything I say remind</b>

<b>me that you've got an</b>

<b>essential oil for that.</b>

<b>I think it's the same when we're getting</b>

<b>wrapped up in how</b>

<b>amazing our students are</b>

<b>doing, how wonderful things are going for</b>

<b>us that if you try and say, "Hey, there's</b>

<b>this whole new philosophy of teaching</b>

<b>that could completely</b>

<b>revolutionize your class,"</b>

<b>it's just too much.</b>

<b>People are not generally</b>

<b>receptive to making big changes.</b>

<b>I think my strategy to deal with pushback</b>

<b>is to not try to push, but really do what</b>

<b>I do, get the results I get, not throw it</b>

<b>in people's faces how</b>

<b>my kids are better than</b>

<b>their kids, and maybe start</b>

<b>from more of an activity level.</b>

<b>Here's a thing I did today in class, not,</b>

<b>"Here's how you can</b>

<b>change your whole year."</b>

<b>I think those bite-sized pieces get a lot</b>

<b>less pushback because</b>

<b>no one has to change</b>

<b>in order to just do</b>

<b>this one activity today.</b>

<b>That's very true.</b>

<b>I remember, Susan Gross used to always</b>

<b>say that the best way</b>

<b>to convert people over is</b>

<b>one activity at a time.</b>

<b>Take this one activity and replace it</b>

<b>with this other</b>

<b>activity, and slowly you do that</b>

<b>one at a time.</b>

<b>Eventually, you'll get there because if</b>

<b>you tell them, "This is</b>

<b>the way," and you become</b>

<b>overzealous about it, and you tell them,</b>

<b>"This is the way," and</b>

<b>you get all these magical</b>

<b>results, and especially if they've been</b>

<b>teaching a while, then</b>

<b>they get this personal feeling</b>

<b>like I have disappointed and have</b>

<b>disservice my students previously.</b>

<b>If I accept this new way,</b>

<b>then that's what I'm saying.</b>

<b>I was a bad teacher for the first 10, 15</b>

<b>years, five years,</b>

<b>whatever it may have been, and</b>

<b>now I'm doing better.</b>

<b>That's overwhelming</b>

<b>for a lot of teachers.</b>

<b>I always like to think of Maya Angelou's</b>

<b>saying, and I don't have</b>

<b>it exactly memorized, but</b>

<b>she says, "Do your best that you can, and</b>

<b>then when you know better, do better."</b>

<b>It's not that you did bad the first five</b>

<b>or how many years, but</b>

<b>now that you know that</b>

<b>there is maybe a more effective way, now</b>

<b>that you know better, you can do better.</b>

<b>It doesn't mean that everything you did</b>

<b>before was a bad thing,</b>

<b>but I think a lot of people</b>

<b>have that giant hill, and using that one</b>

<b>technique at a time, that</b>

<b>one activity at a time, it's</b>

<b>less overwhelming because there are very</b>

<b>few of us who went in</b>

<b>and jumped in all in.</b>

<b>I was one of those, but</b>

<b>very few of us were those.</b>

<b>We did the slowly activities, activities.</b>

<b>We have all the different gamut on here,</b>

<b>and a lot of people just can't do that.</b>

<b>It's too much of a</b>

<b>big change all at once.</b>

<b>What about you, Jackie?</b>

<b>What are you thinking about?</b>

<b>I have at my current school, there's one</b>

<b>other language teacher,</b>

<b>and I was very cautious</b>

<b>with sharing anything I was doing just</b>

<b>because the teacher who</b>

<b>came before me was not a good</b>

<b>teacher at all, and happened to use the</b>

<b>same curriculum that I do.</b>

<b>I knew I had the chops, and I knew that a</b>

<b>lot of it was just</b>

<b>because that previous teacher</b>

<b>was not fluent enough to really be</b>

<b>teaching the language, I don't think.</b>

<b>I was very slow to share</b>

<b>things that I was doing.</b>

<b>I started with, if I had my kids to a</b>

<b>written exit ticket, I</b>

<b>would be flipping through them</b>

<b>in the hall between classes, and I would</b>

<b>show them to this other</b>

<b>teacher and be like, "Yeah,</b>

<b>this is what we're doing."</b>

<b>They would see multiple sentences written</b>

<b>in Spanish, and be like, "Oh, wow, that's</b>

<b>really good."</b>

<b>Fast forward to the start of this school</b>

<b>year, I actually lent</b>

<b>that teacher, I think I had</b>

<b>the seventh edition of the TPR</b>

<b>storytelling book, the</b>

<b>Green Book, from Blaine Ray and</b>

<b>Connie Seeley, and I lent them that, the</b>

<b>TPRS 2.0 book that they wrote.</b>

<b>I gave them both to her and was like,</b>

<b>"Here, if you want to</b>

<b>read these," because we had</b>

<b>to do so many hours of professional</b>

<b>development here at the school district.</b>

<b>I've never been in a district that</b>

<b>required us to find</b>

<b>10 hours of PD somehow.</b>

<b>That was an adhered.</b>

<b>You might be able to do these as a book</b>

<b>study or something like</b>

<b>that for your PD this year.</b>

<b>I've already got nine because I went to</b>

<b>TPRS over the summer.</b>

<b>She started reading through those, and</b>

<b>it's been working through that.</b>

<b>I was like, "If you ever want to come and</b>

<b>observe in my room while we're doing some</b>

<b>of these things, feel free."</b>

<b>That's the tack I take with it, because I</b>

<b>know what I'm doing</b>

<b>when it comes to teaching</b>

<b>with CMI at this point.</b>

<b>I'm always like, "Hey, come on in.</b>

<b>If you want to observe, feel free."</b>

<b>I say that to admin.</b>

<b>I say that to other teachers.</b>

<b>At my first district, I even invited my</b>

<b>superintendent to come</b>

<b>and observe in my classroom.</b>

<b>He actually did it, which surprised me.</b>

<b>I find that that's one of the ways that</b>

<b>works really well, along</b>

<b>with what Kelly was saying,</b>

<b>is that don't push back, but be firm.</b>

<b>You are a rock.</b>

<b>If they want to push on you, that's fine.</b>

<b>Don't move, but don't be</b>

<b>aggressive back with it.</b>

<b>It works even better that way.</b>

<b>Absolutely.</b>

<b>Last year, for me, it was just staying</b>

<b>under ... They knew what I did.</b>

<b>They hired me.</b>

<b>They know what I taught, because they</b>

<b>came and observed my classroom.</b>

<b>They knew exactly what I was doing.</b>

<b>I didn't get any overt pushback, and it</b>

<b>helped me that I was not</b>

<b>in the same building as</b>

<b>they are.</b>

<b>I am four miles down the street.</b>

<b>I told the kids, "First of all, I'm not</b>

<b>hauling, because I'd have</b>

<b>to go pick up the books from</b>

<b>the library, pick up 32 of those big,</b>

<b>heavy books, and then</b>

<b>cart them into my room, and</b>

<b>then have to cart them back</b>

<b>at the end of the school year."</b>

<b>I'm like, "No, we've</b>

<b>got an online version.</b>

<b>If there's anything that they require me</b>

<b>to do that I have to</b>

<b>actually pull from the textbook,</b>

<b>we will go online, because all of our</b>

<b>kids have Chromebooks.</b>

<b>We'll go online and do it that way.</b>

<b>You don't have to worry</b>

<b>about carrying a textbook.</b>

<b>I don't have to worry</b>

<b>about carrying a textbook."</b>

<b>That's it.</b>

<b>I keep the teacher's edition in my room,</b>

<b>on my desk, but it</b>

<b>never moves from that spot.</b>

<b>It stays there from August, and it goes</b>

<b>back in the file cabinet in June.</b>

<b>That's where that is.</b>

<b>Now, what I did do to help myself keep on</b>

<b>track, because I'm still doing total CI.</b>

<b>I don't do any activities in the book at</b>

<b>all, but what I have is</b>

<b>I printed out the scope</b>

<b>and sequence from the textbook.</b>

<b>I know what order</b>

<b>we're doing the chapters.</b>

<b>Every year we change the order of the</b>

<b>chapters that they want to</b>

<b>do, which it makes it also</b>

<b>difficult because if we're doing chapter</b>

<b>four before chapter</b>

<b>three, it assumes they</b>

<b>already know chapter three vocabulary,</b>

<b>and they don't know</b>

<b>chapter three vocabulary,</b>

<b>so it causes more problems than it's</b>

<b>worth, to be quite honest.</b>

<b>But I've got the scope and sequence that</b>

<b>I'm following along the way, so I know.</b>

<b>Okay, I've got to cover these parts</b>

<b>before the midterm,</b>

<b>and I just look at it.</b>

<b>I look at what grammar I need to do, what</b>

<b>my general vocabulary</b>

<b>is, and I don't teach</b>

<b>all the school stuff all at once.</b>

<b>Then it just becomes</b>

<b>a list of vocabulary.</b>

<b>I just write stories, and</b>

<b>I insert the vocabulary.</b>

<b>Actually I cheat.</b>

<b>This is what I do.</b>

<b>It's really subversive here.</b>

<b>I write my stories about my kids.</b>

<b>So like we just had a kid.</b>

<b>Oh, he told us a story that I asked what</b>

<b>he's doing the weekend.</b>

<b>He's like for his football team, they're</b>

<b>doing a car wash, and he</b>

<b>said he was going to wear</b>

<b>his speedo to do the car wash.</b>

<b>So we made a story about him being in the</b>

<b>car wash and him</b>

<b>posing in his speedo to try</b>

<b>to get more people to</b>

<b>come into the car wash.</b>

<b>So I wrote this story about him, but I</b>

<b>had this vocabulary</b>

<b>that I had to enter in.</b>

<b>So I put my story.</b>

<b>I copied and pasted it into chat GPT, and</b>

<b>then I gave the</b>

<b>vocabulary list that I also</b>

<b>had to teach.</b>

<b>I put chat GPT.</b>

<b>But this vocabulary, a few of them, not</b>

<b>every single one,</b>

<b>naturally within this story, throw</b>

<b>it into this story and add it in there in</b>

<b>a funny kind of a way.</b>

<b>And so that's kind of what I did.</b>

<b>And with some school supplies, it was</b>

<b>like instead of pulling</b>

<b>out a sponge, he pulled</b>

<b>out an eraser out of the bucket and just</b>

<b>funny little things that they did.</b>

<b>And he would write on the windows with</b>

<b>the dry erase markers,</b>

<b>those kinds of things,</b>

<b>and so then he could wash them off and</b>

<b>show off more in his bathing suit.</b>

<b>So it was just kind of a little funny</b>

<b>little story, but that's</b>

<b>how I get that vocabulary</b>

<b>in there.</b>

<b>Because I can't think of ways to put some</b>

<b>of this vocabulary in there.</b>

<b>I don't know funny ways to get a stapler</b>

<b>and staples into or a</b>

<b>thumbtack into a story.</b>

<b>So I'll write my stories about my kids</b>

<b>and then tell chat GPT to</b>

<b>insert that strategically</b>

<b>within the story in</b>

<b>some kind of a funny way.</b>

<b>And it comes out funny and the kids are</b>

<b>always like, we love</b>

<b>these stories because they're</b>

<b>about us.</b>

<b>There are funny stories about them and</b>

<b>over something dumb that</b>

<b>they say in class or like</b>

<b>I have a kid who also</b>

<b>likes to flip chairs.</b>

<b>So he wrote a whole story about him</b>

<b>flipping the chairs and</b>

<b>then the chairs got revenge</b>

<b>and they flipped him and</b>

<b>left him alone in the room.</b>

<b>And so just funny little</b>

<b>stories that come up with kids.</b>

<b>I mean, these are freshmen, so they do a</b>

<b>lot of weird things.</b>

<b>But that's how I kind of get that</b>

<b>vocabulary in that I have</b>

<b>to teach and still stay true</b>

<b>to my CI that I do.</b>

<b>Yeah, learning to do improv comedy is one</b>

<b>of the best ways to</b>

<b>learn how to work in weird</b>

<b>vocab.</b>

<b>Yeah.</b>

<b>Because once you learn how to</b>

<b>do improv, it's a lot easier.</b>

<b>Yeah, I've just never had to insert vocab</b>

<b>like I'm good at</b>

<b>inserting the super seven,</b>

<b>the sweet 16.</b>

<b>Those are easy to get in there.</b>

<b>But it's really hard for</b>

<b>me to work in thumb tech.</b>

<b>It just is just not one that comes off my</b>

<b>off my tongue very easily.</b>

<b>So I use chat GPT cheat to get</b>

<b>those kind of things in there.</b>

<b>They only get those about gravity only</b>

<b>show up in the readings.</b>

<b>Because when I'm spontaneously coming up</b>

<b>with stories orally, it</b>

<b>I just can't think to get</b>

<b>that vocabulary in there.</b>

<b>I'm working too hard to</b>

<b>get the super 16 in there.</b>

<b>I was super 16, the sweet 16 in there.</b>

<b>I don't even think I know the word for</b>

<b>some pack in Spanish.</b>

<b>I definitely don't.</b>

<b>It is.</b>

<b>That is definitely a word I've never</b>

<b>needed if I ever learned it.</b>

<b>But I think that's the other thing, you</b>

<b>know, textbooks, they</b>

<b>don't want to leave off some</b>

<b>vital word because there is some teacher</b>

<b>who is going to look in</b>

<b>that school supplies chapter.</b>

<b>And if they don't see thumb tack, they're</b>

<b>not going to want to</b>

<b>buy that book because</b>

<b>their word, what they think</b>

<b>is important isn't in there.</b>

<b>So the book just throws it all at you.</b>

<b>Yeah, that's bonkers.</b>

<b>Yeah.</b>

<b>Oh, Ching Ching.</b>

<b>The only thing I always make fun of the</b>

<b>word paperclip because</b>

<b>the paperclips always in</b>

<b>the school chapter and I'm like, okay,</b>

<b>you guys are at the height</b>

<b>of using the word paperclip.</b>

<b>And unless you're going to work in an</b>

<b>office after you</b>

<b>graduate, you'll probably never</b>

<b>use the word paperclip again.</b>

<b>But it's a mandatory</b>

<b>word to teach paperclip.</b>

<b>Even when I had actual desks with chair</b>

<b>and table attached, I</b>

<b>still called them either</b>

<b>table, chair or seat.</b>

<b>I never use the word pupitre because that</b>

<b>is so limited in the</b>

<b>context of when you can</b>

<b>use it.</b>

<b>And there is nothing wrong of saying, you</b>

<b>know, like go to your</b>

<b>seat instead of your</b>

<b>desk.</b>

<b>You're going to use seat all the time.</b>

<b>You're going to take a train or an</b>

<b>airplane or, you know, whatever.</b>

<b>Take all the seats.</b>

<b>And so I think, you know, looking at that</b>

<b>even and winnowing</b>

<b>down the vocab list that</b>

<b>the textbook gives you, that that is not</b>

<b>what kids all need to master.</b>

<b>If it shows up on the test because you're</b>

<b>copying it right out</b>

<b>of the textbook, there</b>

<b>is no law that says you can't put dumb</b>

<b>tech equals chinchay up</b>

<b>on the board while the</b>

<b>kids are taking the test.</b>

<b>If you are not going to require kids to</b>

<b>know that word because you get to decide.</b>

<b>Yeah.</b>

<b>And that's funny thing you talked about</b>

<b>and it just made me</b>

<b>think of something twice.</b>

<b>I lost the first one though, but sorry.</b>

<b>But the other that's okay.</b>

<b>The second one I was going to say is we</b>

<b>had this this this</b>

<b>little epiphany went off, not</b>

<b>on me, but this other teacher we were</b>

<b>talking in a department</b>

<b>meeting a couple of weeks</b>

<b>ago and she's like, you</b>

<b>know what I'm noticing?</b>

<b>We spend a really long time on certain</b>

<b>things like the capitals</b>

<b>of the countries and the</b>

<b>alphabet and we could probably get much</b>

<b>further in the book if we</b>

<b>chop some of this not it's</b>

<b>not really important stuff out.</b>

<b>And I'm like ding, ding,</b>

<b>ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.</b>

<b>And she's like some</b>

<b>of this vocabulary too.</b>

<b>Shouldn't we maybe limit like because</b>

<b>when I used to teach</b>

<b>with Carmen Andrews and we</b>

<b>used to do.</b>

<b>Um, when to me and when to me, my that</b>

<b>those those books back</b>

<b>then we went and we would</b>

<b>go through each chapter and we would</b>

<b>decide which words we</b>

<b>wanted to actually teach from</b>

<b>the chapter as a group.</b>

<b>So we would go through and we would say</b>

<b>we don't want to teach like they taught.</b>

<b>Um, Lobo and Coyote and we're like, do</b>

<b>they really need both</b>

<b>those words plus the pictures</b>

<b>in the book?</b>

<b>They looked almost exactly the same.</b>

<b>So why bother?</b>

<b>So we only taught Lobo</b>

<b>because coyote was a cognate anyway.</b>

<b>Um, they had a way for, I</b>

<b>can't remember what they used for.</b>

<b>They used a word that was only used in</b>

<b>Mexico and wasn't versatile enough.</b>

<b>So we took that word out and</b>

<b>replaced it with another word.</b>

<b>We didn't want to teach shepherd.</b>

<b>It wasn't a big important word, but</b>

<b>that's in their first</b>

<b>story because it's the boy</b>

<b>who tells who yells wolf.</b>

<b>It's kind of that story.</b>

<b>So we didn't teach, um, pastor.</b>

<b>And then you kept using, uh, quite a</b>

<b>little bit of talk for Crow.</b>

<b>Well we taught in Vegas.</b>

<b>So all of our kids knew</b>

<b>what quite a little was.</b>

<b>It was a drink.</b>

<b>It was not a bird.</b>

<b>And so we didn't have to teach that where</b>

<b>we just changed it to</b>

<b>part, which is a more</b>

<b>universal word anyway,</b>

<b>just a generic word for bird.</b>

<b>Because we went through that and that's,</b>

<b>I think now the wheels are spinning.</b>

<b>And so I'm hoping that we go through and</b>

<b>go through the hundred</b>

<b>vocabulary word that we're</b>

<b>supposed to teach every two weeks.</b>

<b>Cause we're on the four by four.</b>

<b>So we have to teach it so much quicker,</b>

<b>um, that we can go and</b>

<b>whittle down some of that</b>

<b>vocabulary to the point where we don't</b>

<b>have to teach all of these words.</b>

<b>And I'm with you.</b>

<b>Um, I am, I've always been</b>

<b>the out of bounds teacher.</b>

<b>I am very out of bounds.</b>

<b>I do not stay within bounds and I find</b>

<b>that my kids do better</b>

<b>because I don't stay in</b>

<b>bounds.</b>

<b>But what I do do is I give</b>

<b>them the words they need to know.</b>

<b>So if it's a reading right next to the</b>

<b>word in parentheses,</b>

<b>I'll put what it means.</b>

<b>I don't gloss it at the bottom because a</b>

<b>lot of, you know, um,</b>

<b>kids who've got learning</b>

<b>disabilities can't track.</b>

<b>So if they go, they see the word here,</b>

<b>they go to the bottom,</b>

<b>they can't find where they</b>

<b>left off back up here.</b>

<b>And so then they have to start all over</b>

<b>again from the beginning.</b>

<b>So I just put it right next to it because</b>

<b>they don't have to look</b>

<b>or search for it anywhere.</b>

<b>It's right there for them.</b>

<b>And when I'm doing it in class orally, I</b>

<b>just write it up on the board.</b>

<b>I don't stop my Spanish.</b>

<b>I just put it up on the board.</b>

<b>But what I find is like, when I, my, I</b>

<b>gave it to another</b>

<b>teacher, my reading, because</b>

<b>the readings in Spanish one in the</b>

<b>textbook are like this big.</b>

<b>They're like four or five sentences max.</b>

<b>And they're really simple.</b>

<b>And I'm like, she goes,</b>

<b>and I give them my reading.</b>

<b>That's 300 words.</b>

<b>And it's got a lot of words that they</b>

<b>wouldn't know, but I</b>

<b>need it for the story.</b>

<b>So I put them in there and</b>

<b>she's like, you give that.</b>

<b>I go, yeah, that's my second reading we</b>

<b>did on the third week of school.</b>

<b>And she's like, that</b>

<b>is really, really hard.</b>

<b>I go, but my kids on their</b>

<b>own, they got an average of 87%.</b>

<b>And reading that is practice.</b>

<b>So and now guess what they can do later?</b>

<b>They're going to be, they're going to</b>

<b>have more language under</b>

<b>their belt, not necessarily</b>

<b>the vocabulary, but they're going to be</b>

<b>exposed to the grammar in</b>

<b>much more detailed way that</b>

<b>they can actually start picking it up.</b>

<b>And my kids do so much better.</b>

<b>So when they do give us those textbook</b>

<b>readings that we have to</b>

<b>give for the final, my kids</b>

<b>nail it every time because they're like,</b>

<b>that was a piece of cake</b>

<b>because it was only five</b>

<b>sentences and we're used to 300 words.</b>

<b>So it makes a big difference.</b>

<b>So yes, I definitely agree</b>

<b>with that, that vocabulary.</b>

<b>Yeah.</b>

<b>Having that data also</b>

<b>definitely helps with the side.</b>

<b>Because if you can, because, you know,</b>

<b>everybody's about data now.</b>

<b>So if I can go, here's what</b>

<b>my Spanish one children did.</b>

<b>Like we just did our</b>

<b>second fluency, right?</b>

<b>And I had used a technique that I got</b>

<b>from Craig Sheehan over</b>

<b>the summer about, you know,</b>

<b>you do their first one and then you take</b>

<b>all that data, you</b>

<b>figure out what the 20th</b>

<b>percent of how it was.</b>

<b>And then that many words in</b>

<b>10 minutes, that's your fee.</b>

<b>And I took that and I</b>

<b>modified it a little bit.</b>

<b>And I did a one three ten free write with</b>

<b>my Spanish one children.</b>

<b>And then we're, we just</b>

<b>finished week five of school.</b>

<b>So at the end of week five, I had kids</b>

<b>who the majority of my</b>

<b>children wrote over 100</b>

<b>words in 10 minutes.</b>

<b>So I mean, I haven't</b>

<b>read what they wrote yet.</b>

<b>So I mean, I just I haven't had time.</b>

<b>I liked it a very quick skim.</b>

<b>I just wanted to see what</b>

<b>the numbers were looking like.</b>

<b>So I was like, OK, 42 words in 10 minutes</b>

<b>was my 20th percentile.</b>

<b>I'm sure most of my kids will get that.</b>

<b>And I think I might have</b>

<b>five who wrote less than that.</b>

<b>So we're coming up to our fifth week this</b>

<b>week will be our fifth week.</b>

<b>And I'll do my eyes on the when I taught</b>

<b>a year round, it'd be</b>

<b>my third month where I</b>

<b>start the writing.</b>

<b>But in a four by four,</b>

<b>it's about week five I start.</b>

<b>And we're going to do our first one three</b>

<b>ten this week and see how that goes.</b>

<b>So I've never graded my fluency rights</b>

<b>based off number of words</b>

<b>because I have kids also</b>

<b>has met with their ability.</b>

<b>What's in their head is fine, but they</b>

<b>are slower writers or</b>

<b>they have some other kind</b>

<b>of writing.</b>

<b>So I never thought that was and I could</b>

<b>have kids who wrote 100</b>

<b>words that had nothing</b>

<b>to do with each other.</b>

<b>I made no sense.</b>

<b>And I had kids who wrote 30 words that</b>

<b>made beautiful Spanish.</b>

<b>So I only grade the ones.</b>

<b>They all go in the grade book under the</b>

<b>zero categories so I can</b>

<b>track them and I'm looking</b>

<b>for growth over time.</b>

<b>So if this kid starts at 20, that's fine.</b>

<b>That was his baseline.</b>

<b>I just expect him to</b>

<b>be improving over time.</b>

<b>But when I pick random ones to grade and</b>

<b>I grade them on</b>

<b>proficiency, that's how I've</b>

<b>always done it.</b>

<b>Just because I've seen, you know, kiddo</b>

<b>write 300 words, I'll be amazed.</b>

<b>I look at his paper.</b>

<b>All he did was list all the words that</b>

<b>were on the board all around the room.</b>

<b>They were just a list of words.</b>

<b>I didn't put that in there.</b>

<b>Or they wrote things that made no sense.</b>

<b>I did put the caveat on there that they</b>

<b>had to write at a novice</b>

<b>mid level of proficiency,</b>

<b>at least.</b>

<b>And then if they wrote at a higher level</b>

<b>of proficiency, then</b>

<b>their score got a bump.</b>

<b>So like 42 words was at a</b>

<b>novice mid level was an 80.</b>

<b>And then if they wrote at a novice high</b>

<b>level, that bumped it up</b>

<b>5% for my regular students.</b>

<b>So I do, I kind of modified it a little</b>

<b>bit because I did</b>

<b>notice that when I was just</b>

<b>doing timed writes, and I just wanted to</b>

<b>know the number of</b>

<b>words, I had students who I</b>

<b>knew could write a lot better, who just</b>

<b>started doing the listing</b>

<b>the words off the board.</b>

<b>And that's novice low at best.</b>

<b>Yeah.</b>

<b>And frankly, lazy.</b>

<b>So I do put the caveat on there.</b>

<b>I'm like, you need to try to write</b>

<b>something that makes sense</b>

<b>and try to communicate an</b>

<b>idea.</b>

<b>But this is where I would also get the</b>

<b>after they learn they couldn't do that.</b>

<b>This is what they did next.</b>

<b>There is a very, very, very, very, very,</b>

<b>very, very, very, very,</b>

<b>very, very, very, very,</b>

<b>very, very, I go time fat boy.</b>

<b>And right when I said time, they'd add</b>

<b>the last two words,</b>

<b>but everything in between</b>

<b>was very, very, very, very, very, very,</b>

<b>for 75 words as fast as</b>

<b>they could write it down.</b>

<b>And thank God in</b>

<b>Spanish, only three letters.</b>

<b>So they did that really, really quickly.</b>

<b>And they didn't put the commas down</b>

<b>because it would slow them down.</b>

<b>So they would just list</b>

<b>them all the way through.</b>

<b>And so that's why I went through, I said,</b>

<b>the number of words isn't an indicator of</b>

<b>ability because I had some really smart</b>

<b>kids who thought through</b>

<b>their words or I had kids</b>

<b>who had, I mean, I don't know about you,</b>

<b>but I have kids who write</b>

<b>like they're kindergarteners.</b>

<b>Their handwriting is still like they're</b>

<b>kindergarteners because they stopped</b>

<b>teaching handwriting and</b>

<b>they worked on the keyboard.</b>

<b>And now in California, they put the</b>

<b>handwriting back in the</b>

<b>standards because I have a kid</b>

<b>who now writes, his letters are two to</b>

<b>two and a half inches</b>

<b>to three inches big.</b>

<b>So he goes seven words is half a page for</b>

<b>him because he writes so big.</b>

<b>And he goes, I wrote a half a page</b>

<b>because he wrote seven words.</b>

<b>And the handwriting is just so horrible.</b>

<b>So they don't have that high, that eye</b>

<b>hand coordination, that</b>

<b>fine finger movement to</b>

<b>be able to write quickly.</b>

<b>And I noticed that when I started</b>

<b>teaching middle school,</b>

<b>my sixth graders just could</b>

<b>not write quickly.</b>

<b>And they were never asked to even write</b>

<b>100 words in English,</b>

<b>let alone in Spanish, write</b>

<b>five sentences, write a paragraph.</b>

<b>And I always ask you, how</b>

<b>many sentences is a paragraph?</b>

<b>Because teachers trained them that a</b>

<b>paragraph was X amount of</b>

<b>sentences, but it's never</b>

<b>been X amount of sentences.</b>

<b>You know, five sentences, eight, it's not</b>

<b>a, it's not a</b>

<b>standard, you know, number of</b>

<b>sentences in there.</b>

<b>So teaching them to do that was always,</b>

<b>always backfired in my classes, at least.</b>

<b>A French teacher colleague of mine did</b>

<b>the low key cultural</b>

<b>lesson about French handwriting</b>

<b>and how it's a different font of like</b>

<b>penmanship than what we do</b>

<b>here and had the students</b>

<b>practice writing and writing in cursive</b>

<b>in the French font,</b>

<b>because so many things were</b>

<b>so unreadable that she turned it into a</b>

<b>handwriting lesson,</b>

<b>basically, but you know, within the</b>

<b>context of culture.</b>

<b>So there you go.</b>

<b>That's funny.</b>

<b>That's funny.</b>

<b>I'm not wasting my time with that.</b>

<b>But they're putting handwriting back in</b>

<b>the curriculum at the younger ages.</b>

<b>So hopefully that will, because they went</b>

<b>all one direction</b>

<b>towards the keyboard and</b>

<b>neglected the handwriting part.</b>

<b>Now kids can't, they</b>

<b>can't even sign their names.</b>

<b>Oh, no, they can't.</b>

<b>They don't know what the difference is</b>

<b>between signing and printing.</b>

<b>Yeah.</b>

<b>And, and sometimes when you look at a</b>

<b>print, I'm like, I call</b>

<b>one kid, his nickname was</b>

<b>roller coaster.</b>

<b>Cause even if he had lines on the paper,</b>

<b>his handwriting went all</b>

<b>over like this, you know,</b>

<b>like the lines are</b>

<b>supposed to be the guide.</b>

<b>The bottoms of your</b>

<b>letters should touch those lines.</b>

<b>Because he would just like write and it</b>

<b>would go down to like the</b>

<b>third line and then come</b>

<b>back up.</b>

<b>And I'm like, he's like, he thought they</b>

<b>were a suggestion, not a guide.</b>

<b>It was hilarious.</b>

<b>But I have so many kids and I thought it</b>

<b>was really a middle school thing.</b>

<b>And I go back to high</b>

<b>school after 10, 11 years.</b>

<b>I was 11 years away from high school and</b>

<b>back and like the</b>

<b>handwriting has not improved.</b>

<b>They really can't write.</b>

<b>And it makes it so difficult.</b>

<b>They're so used to typing, typing,</b>

<b>everything, typing,</b>

<b>everything, and they can't type either,</b>

<b>which is things.</b>

<b>So both things have failed because you</b>

<b>see him typing like this.</b>

<b>They don't know what a</b>

<b>capital letter is or a period.</b>

<b>Cause it's text.</b>

<b>They just know what a text is.</b>

<b>They type as they text.</b>

<b>It's kind of funny.</b>

<b>Okay.</b>

<b>So we're getting close to our end.</b>

<b>Do you have any, I'll do, we'll combine</b>

<b>two of these things together.</b>

<b>Do you have any survival strategy when</b>

<b>you are the sole CI</b>

<b>person and you feel outnumbered</b>

<b>and or do you, what would you say to a</b>

<b>lone CI teacher now to</b>

<b>give them confidence to</b>

<b>not give up and continue the tough fight?</b>

<b>Keep your receipts.</b>

<b>You know, I keep my kids</b>

<b>writing samples from year to year.</b>

<b>And that is what I look at.</b>

<b>And I, because I was taught in the</b>

<b>traditional way and I could</b>

<b>not read Spanish for a very</b>

<b>long, um, it was not until I took an</b>

<b>intro to lit class that</b>

<b>I learned how to read in</b>

<b>Spanish.</b>

<b>Um, and so I think about that and how my</b>

<b>kids are able to read</b>

<b>so much more and so much</b>

<b>better.</b>

<b>Like, and I show my kids every year at</b>

<b>some point, the first</b>

<b>short story that we had to</b>

<b>read and it was like,</b>

<b>I have a page at best.</b>

<b>And it took me at least 45 minutes, if</b>

<b>not longer to read and understand that.</b>

<b>And now I know that if I taught my kids,</b>

<b>and it's stories and</b>

<b>part of it and imperfect,</b>

<b>I could probably hand them</b>

<b>that at the end of Spanish too.</b>

<b>And they would have to</b>

<b>have it read in five minutes.</b>

<b>You know, so that knowing that what they</b>

<b>were able to do</b>

<b>because of this and keeping</b>

<b>the receipts of how to keep their samples</b>

<b>of their writing and</b>

<b>look back on that when</b>

<b>you're feeling discouraged.</b>

<b>And you know, it, you can use that also</b>

<b>when you were being</b>

<b>pushed on by, by, by colleagues</b>

<b>and you can say, look, this is what my</b>

<b>kids are able to do.</b>

<b>Are your kids able to do that?</b>

<b>No.</b>

<b>Okay, goodbye.</b>

<b>And then you showed your door and you</b>

<b>teach like it in</b>

<b>Tennessee, at least, you know,</b>

<b>I have never been in a really strong</b>

<b>world language department</b>

<b>where we have our department</b>

<b>meetings and common</b>

<b>assessments and all that.</b>

<b>And I've never had an admin who knows</b>

<b>another language or has</b>

<b>any experience really with</b>

<b>world language.</b>

<b>So they all just kind of go, we trust</b>

<b>that you know what you're doing.</b>

<b>And we're just gonna let you do that, I</b>

<b>guess, you know, but it's</b>

<b>just keeping your receipts.</b>

<b>Yeah, it goes back to the data.</b>

<b>Goes back to the data, the proof, the</b>

<b>proof back of what you're doing.</b>

<b>What about you, Kelly?</b>

<b>I agree.</b>

<b>I think number one, don't get fired.</b>

<b>Yeah.</b>

<b>You need to leave a particular position,</b>

<b>but don't get fired.</b>

<b>Do what you need to do.</b>

<b>My video died.</b>

<b>Do what you need to do</b>

<b>in order to keep your job.</b>

<b>And sometimes that's going to be maybe</b>

<b>have to jump through a</b>

<b>hoop that you don't agree</b>

<b>with.</b>

<b>But you know, do the best that you can do</b>

<b>within the context that you are in.</b>

<b>And if it's untenable, then look for a</b>

<b>new job, but don't get</b>

<b>fired from the one you</b>

<b>have.</b>

<b>Exactly.</b>

<b>The other thing is, you know, finding</b>

<b>those subtle ways to</b>

<b>encourage more and more input</b>

<b>driven work in the class, you know, it's</b>

<b>not unusual to have a</b>

<b>paragraph on a textbook</b>

<b>test.</b>

<b>It's a paragraph, read this, answer</b>

<b>questions, or read this</b>

<b>and fill in the blank.</b>

<b>Okay.</b>

<b>The first time kids read</b>

<b>shouldn't be on the test.</b>

<b>And that seems kind of like a no brainer.</b>

<b>And so that might be something, you know,</b>

<b>you encourage with</b>

<b>your colleagues that, hey,</b>

<b>if we're going to have them read this kid</b>

<b>talking about their schedule on the test,</b>

<b>maybe we need to bring in a few of these</b>

<b>beforehand, right, and ask</b>

<b>questions so they know how</b>

<b>to think about this reading.</b>

<b>And suddenly you're kind of like, you</b>

<b>know, asking the story of</b>

<b>this reading without changing</b>

<b>their whole philosophy to comprehensible</b>

<b>input or, you know, what have you.</b>

<b>And working in those individual</b>

<b>activities, I start</b>

<b>the year with card talk.</b>

<b>And you know, at one point, you know,</b>

<b>circling with balls or PQA</b>

<b>or, you know, whatever name</b>

<b>people give, I think you say compelling</b>

<b>conversations or</b>

<b>something like that, right?</b>

<b>There's, but we start the year with that.</b>

<b>And the biggest selling</b>

<b>point is it is almost zero prep.</b>

<b>Yeah, exactly.</b>

<b>Now it is probably takes a little bit</b>

<b>more skill to do that</b>

<b>day one, level one, lots</b>

<b>of flooding them with language.</b>

<b>But someone who teaches level two or</b>

<b>level three, where they</b>

<b>know those kids will know</b>

<b>some basics.</b>

<b>That's a pretty low stress way to start</b>

<b>the year because you</b>

<b>don't have to get a ton of</b>

<b>copies ready.</b>

<b>And you don't have to</b>

<b>have a brilliant slideshow.</b>

<b>You need like a whiteboard.</b>

<b>Yeah.</b>

<b>And so selling it as things that will</b>

<b>make things easier and</b>

<b>that will support students</b>

<b>in doing whatever they're already going</b>

<b>to do might be a way to</b>

<b>coexist without really</b>

<b>pushing something.</b>

<b>Absolutely.</b>

<b>To go on with don't get fired.</b>

<b>What I always tell people is do what you</b>

<b>need to do to keep your</b>

<b>job, but advocate for what's</b>

<b>best for your kids.</b>

<b>So go to your administration, go to your</b>

<b>department chair, talk to</b>

<b>your fellow students, your</b>

<b>fellow teachers and</b>

<b>advocate for what's best for kids.</b>

<b>And really, nobody</b>

<b>can fault you for that.</b>

<b>If you have kids best intentions in mind,</b>

<b>then nobody, they</b>

<b>might disagree, but they</b>

<b>can't fault you from where you're coming</b>

<b>because it's not coming</b>

<b>from a motive of I want this</b>

<b>because I want this.</b>

<b>I want this because</b>

<b>it's best for my kids.</b>

<b>No one can fault you for that.</b>

<b>So as Kelly said, keep your job, do what</b>

<b>you have to do to keep</b>

<b>your job, but advocate for</b>

<b>your kids.</b>

<b>It's not working if you're just finding</b>

<b>that kid perspective</b>

<b>is not hitting with your</b>

<b>administration, with your fellow</b>

<b>colleagues, then you might</b>

<b>want to look for another job</b>

<b>for the next year.</b>

<b>I remember in my old school, the best</b>

<b>principal I've ever had,</b>

<b>and I only had him for four,</b>

<b>maybe five years, was he always said that</b>

<b>I will never say no</b>

<b>if it's good for kids.</b>

<b>If it's good for kids,</b>

<b>we'll find the money.</b>

<b>We'll find a way.</b>

<b>We'll find whatever we need to find</b>

<b>because if it's good for</b>

<b>kids, it's good for kids.</b>

<b>And that's what we</b>

<b>should be doing, period.</b>

<b>It's not to make the state happy.</b>

<b>It's not to make the district happy.</b>

<b>It's not to make parents happy.</b>

<b>We are here to service the kids.</b>

<b>And if it's good for</b>

<b>kids, then it's good, period.</b>

<b>And we will find a way.</b>

<b>And I thought that</b>

<b>was really eye-opening.</b>

<b>It's kind of like why we do what we do</b>

<b>because teachers would</b>

<b>always complain at the end</b>

<b>of the year that their</b>

<b>kids didn't know anything.</b>

<b>At the end of the year, they're like, "My</b>

<b>kids didn't know</b>

<b>anything, and I'm going to</b>

<b>do things differently in the fall."</b>

<b>And when the fall comes, they do exactly</b>

<b>the same thing that</b>

<b>they did the previous fall.</b>

<b>And then at the end of that next year,</b>

<b>they complain about all</b>

<b>the things that the kids</b>

<b>still don't know and do.</b>

<b>But they don't want to make that change.</b>

<b>They're not thinking about</b>

<b>what's best for their kids.</b>

<b>And that's why we made that change</b>

<b>because we saw that our</b>

<b>kids were not learning or</b>

<b>acquiring what they should be acquiring</b>

<b>from what we were doing before.</b>

<b>And so then we looked for</b>

<b>something else that worked better.</b>

<b>And as Blaine always says, the inventor</b>

<b>of TPRS, he said,</b>

<b>"TPRS is the best way that</b>

<b>I know how to do this right now.</b>

<b>But if something else comes down the line</b>

<b>tomorrow that works</b>

<b>better than TPRS, I am</b>

<b>wholeheartedly switching tomorrow."</b>

<b>So he's not, even though the system that</b>

<b>he invented or</b>

<b>hodgepodge together from different</b>

<b>ideas, he came up with that.</b>

<b>He is not completely 100% tied to that.</b>

<b>He is tied to the idea</b>

<b>what works best for kids.</b>

<b>And I think if we go in with that</b>

<b>mindset, we can't be wrong.</b>

<b>We may have different ideas of what's</b>

<b>best for kids, but we</b>

<b>can't be wrong when you think</b>

<b>about things like that.</b>

<b>And then I'll say also with the data,</b>

<b>because we keep talking about that.</b>

<b>And our administrators are</b>

<b>all about data right now.</b>

<b>They all want data, data, data.</b>

<b>And I use, and I've moved, this year I</b>

<b>moved exclusively,</b>

<b>everything that I do that my</b>

<b>kids turn in in language</b>

<b>class is done on formative.com.</b>

<b>Love formative.</b>

<b>Yeah.</b>

<b>Because, I take it back, one thing, quick</b>

<b>writes, those they do</b>

<b>on handwriting and they</b>

<b>do that one.</b>

<b>But everything else is done on formative.</b>

<b>My warmups are done on formative.</b>

<b>My exit tickets are done on formative.</b>

<b>My speaking is done on formative.</b>

<b>All of this is done on</b>

<b>formative because it gives me data.</b>

<b>I can tie it to a standard.</b>

<b>I can see which questions they got right,</b>

<b>which questions they got wrong.</b>

<b>I can see which standards they're hitting</b>

<b>and which ones they're missing.</b>

<b>I can see it all and much</b>

<b>better than my grade book.</b>

<b>I take all those grades and I put them in</b>

<b>my grade book, but</b>

<b>everything is there and</b>

<b>my kids know, go to</b>

<b>formative, that's where it is.</b>

<b>That's kind of like my learning</b>

<b>management system</b>

<b>because our school has two.</b>

<b>We have Google</b>

<b>Classroom and we have Canva.</b>

<b>And some teachers use one and some</b>

<b>teachers use the other.</b>

<b>Last year I was doing things on Canva and</b>

<b>on formative and I'm</b>

<b>like, why am I repeating</b>

<b>everything twice?</b>

<b>So I stopped using Canva because I don't</b>

<b>like Canva assessments at all.</b>

<b>And I like formative's assessments and I</b>

<b>have all my assessments</b>

<b>there and I can record</b>

<b>a listening on there and</b>

<b>they can hear the listening.</b>

<b>I can put my writing up there and it</b>

<b>works just so well for me.</b>

<b>So I use formative for everything now and</b>

<b>this is the first year that I also put my</b>

<b>exit tickets and my warmups on there.</b>

<b>I used to have them both write them in</b>

<b>their notebook, but I don't</b>

<b>have them do that anymore.</b>

<b>I put them on there and I can read them.</b>

<b>I can see them.</b>

<b>I can evaluate them right there and I can</b>

<b>compare if someone asks me.</b>

<b>I don't say, well, I have to go get three</b>

<b>notebooks for my kids</b>

<b>so you can kind of see</b>

<b>a thing.</b>

<b>I can show you the kids stuff that's all</b>

<b>written right in there</b>

<b>and it works so well.</b>

<b>And I used to love Flipgrid, but Flipgrid</b>

<b>went away and I've</b>

<b>used formative to replace</b>

<b>that because they can</b>

<b>record videos on there as well.</b>

<b>So they can record those videos on there</b>

<b>and I can see their</b>

<b>videos or they can just record</b>

<b>the audio.</b>

<b>And for my, I pay for it.</b>

<b>It's $15 a month.</b>

<b>It's worth it to me.</b>

<b>It comes out of my own pocket, but it's</b>

<b>worth it to me because</b>

<b>of all the features that</b>

<b>it has.</b>

<b>And it's one I highly recommend.</b>

<b>And if you need to keep track of data,</b>

<b>that is a great one to</b>

<b>do it because it doesn't</b>

<b>automatically without you having to</b>

<b>manually figure anything</b>

<b>out or go back to the grade</b>

<b>book and try to figure it out</b>

<b>and do all that kind of stuff.</b>

<b>Because in my old school, we used to have</b>

<b>to give data reports to our admin.</b>

<b>We go into department chair, department</b>

<b>meeting, and we'd have to</b>

<b>have all the data and then</b>

<b>we have to give it to them in a folder so</b>

<b>that they had all the</b>

<b>data so they could compare</b>

<b>where the kids were.</b>

<b>And then we can analyze the questions and</b>

<b>we're supposed to ask</b>

<b>questions about they</b>

<b>got question number four wrong.</b>

<b>Why did they get that wrong?</b>

<b>Did they not know the vocabulary?</b>

<b>Was the question written</b>

<b>poorly or was it too tricky?</b>

<b>And we found out problems</b>

<b>that helped us teach better.</b>

<b>Like in level two, our kids were having</b>

<b>trouble with dates and weather.</b>

<b>Well we taught it really heavily in level</b>

<b>one, but they forgot</b>

<b>it and we never touched</b>

<b>it over in level two.</b>

<b>So we said, oh, we're going to start</b>

<b>adding it back to level</b>

<b>two a little bit, sprinkling</b>

<b>it in and it did.</b>

<b>And then they got better on that.</b>

<b>Or we realized that middle schoolers have</b>

<b>a real tough time</b>

<b>with all of the above or</b>

<b>none of the above or questions that say,</b>

<b>is it A and C or is it B and D?</b>

<b>They couldn't figure those things out.</b>

<b>So we stopped writing those questions and</b>

<b>then we also taught</b>

<b>them how to answer those</b>

<b>questions in the classroom, not on an</b>

<b>assessment type thing.</b>

<b>Because they didn't know how to approach</b>

<b>those questions, had</b>

<b>nothing to do with language.</b>

<b>They didn't understand those types of</b>

<b>questions that they asked.</b>

<b>So we're trying to prepare them for</b>

<b>standardized tests where</b>

<b>they might ask some of those</b>

<b>types of questions.</b>

<b>But we did, we would never have known</b>

<b>that without analyzing the</b>

<b>data question by question.</b>

<b>So I said formative or a alternative</b>

<b>program that works like</b>

<b>that is a really handy way</b>

<b>for the data.</b>

<b>Because you can back</b>

<b>up what you're doing.</b>

<b>You know, like right now I've got a</b>

<b>period that is underperforming.</b>