A Broadway classic gets a haunting new life in Michael Johnson’s 1997 minor-key take on “Almost Like Being in Love.” In this episode, Trist and Elaine focus on its acoustic texture, slide guitar, reverb, jazz chords, and tension-building pedal tone, describing how the arrangement turns an exuberant love song into something more reflective and uncertain.

In the Mailbag segment, Elaine and Trist discuss touring’s physical demands, from disrupted sleep, flights, and time zones to the constant need to perform and socialize at full energy, comparing it to other types of business travel. They also compare traditional touring with other types of touring opportunities, like longer-term cruise ship work.

Listen to the song

• YouTube - https://youtu.be/1vUGpubwbCE?is=E0rrX8m_S3z24SIt
• Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/track/6Q5LVfycFDxVZYgThynTTW?si=130b165357eb4eae
• Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/song/almost-like-being-in-love/691175510
• Amazon - https://music.amazon.com/tracks/B00EOZW8RU/?ref=dm_sh_CNFsOdPCL4cTynB6rf0P83KNX

Other links

• 1978 version of this song by Michael Johnson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPXmzJ392VA
• Musician’s Loupe episode on Björk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-V4pfEMr4g&pp=0gcJCTcMAYcqIYzv
• Playlist of the songs we’ve reviewed
• YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5bn23baJ4xQ1t0TMqukELY5W95HwuMoT
• Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4uCOVpr4NcWT5SGWlZEnnw?si=8j8p7QwlQxmTNNFwFMvCeg
• Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/songs-reviewed-on-the-musicians-loupe/pl.u-V9D7maah06JNo
• Amazon Music - https://music.amazon.com/user-playlists/57132299c0b9470dbd67fcab0b41db79sune?ref=dm_sh_LYPlw2RWiTdf09DUmvLHjqGve

About us

Trist Curless is a Los Angeles-based vocalist, educator, and sound engineer. As a performer, Trist has toured worldwide as a co-founder of the pop-jazz vocal group m-pact and a 10 year member of the Grammy-award winning The Manhattan Transfer. In addition to these two vocal powerhouse groups, he’s also performed with Take 6, Bobby McFerrin, New York Voices, Vox Audio, Naturally 7, and The Swingle Singers. His latest venture, The LHR Project, is a new vocal group collective celebrating legendary jazz vocal group Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross.

As an audio engineer, Trist has toured nationally with several vocal groups and bands in a large variety of venues, working for Grammy award winners Pentatonix and Take 6, as well as prominent a cappella vocal groups Straight No Chaser, VoicePlay, and Accent.

Elaine Chao, M.Ed is a San Francisco Bay Area-based vocalist, multi-instrumentalist, vocal percussionist, and songwriter whose career spans a cappella, contemporary worship, and classical music. She has leveraged her training in classical and choral music over the course of her contemporary performance, including in orchestras for musical theatre and in sacred spaces. In addition to music, she also is a martial artist and published author. She currently leads a product management team at a major software company dedicated to creative expression. All statements in this podcast are her own and do not reflect the opinions of her employer.

Elaine: Hey, Trist, what do we have this week?

Trist: Oh, it's time for show tunes.

Elaine: Okay.

Trist: That's right.

Trist: From your favorite Broadway musical, "Brigadoon."

Elaine: I. What?

Trist: Please note, listener, that is not her favorite musical.

Trist: Yeah, this song is from the musical "Brigadoon," but most

Trist: people who even know the song don't necessarily know that.

Trist: And the version, of course, here on The Musician's Loupe, we

Trist: don't play the very original thing too often.

Trist: It's always like a friend of a

Trist: friend of a friend of a friend,

Trist: right?

Trist: This is really cool artist,

Trist: bigger in the 70s and 80s, named

Trist: Michael Johnson, doing his

Trist: version and kind of a flipping

Trist: on its head, a reinterpretation

Trist: of "Almost Like Being in Love,"

Trist: from

Elaine: Huh!

Elaine: Okay.

Trist: from Brigadoon.

Elaine: That sounds kind of familiar,

Elaine: but I'm going to have to listen

Elaine: to it to see if I actually know

Elaine: this one.

Trist: Well, this is one of those instances that it's so different

Trist: that you might listen to it and you might not even realize that

Trist: you know it right away.

Trist: Just

Elaine: Okay.

Trist: just warning you.

Elaine: Got it.

Elaine: So as we get into this, can you remind us how we should be

Elaine: listening to music as a part of The Musician's Loupe community?

Trist: Well, we just like to encourage you to improve your listening

Trist: situation, if at all possible.

Trist: When you can, grab the nicer headphones, grab the nicer

Trist: living room, the nicer listening situation, get the better car

Trist: with the better stereo, whatever you have to do.

Trist: Again, as always, if you're

Trist: listening to us on your walk and

Trist: you only have the headphones you

Trist: have, we are glad to have you

Trist: also.

Trist: But if you can, we just highly

Trist: encourage better listening when

Trist: possible.

Elaine: So we are going to leave the

Elaine: links to this song in our show

Elaine: notes.

Elaine: So please pause, listen to the song two or three times and we

Elaine: will be right back.

Elaine: And we're back.

Elaine: Okay. I did recognize this song.

Elaine: And also, this was a very bizarre version of the song.

Trist: That's what we do.

Elaine: It was, like, easy listening,

Elaine: but also in a minor key, and it

Elaine: just did.

Elaine: Wow.

Elaine: I have no idea where to go with this.

Trist: I happen to love, when a key change, an inflection change,

Trist: just a vibe shift can make basically the exact same words

Trist: tell a different story.

Trist: Or at least imply a different story.

Trist: I do love that about this particular tune.

Trist: And I think we'll probably include several things

Trist: eventually in the listening.

Trist: The interesting thing here, is Michael Johnson, he actually had

Trist: another version of this before the one that I've chosen.

Trist: So, his biggest hit was a song called "Bluer than Blue."

Trist: Pretty big AM Gold; for you AM Gold fans out there, you'll know

Trist: what I'm talking about.

Trist: If you don't, check it out.

Trist: Tune from the seventies.

Trist: Great song, great singer songwriter.

Trist: He had this version of this tune

Trist: that's still minor, but a little

Trist: bit more trying to be hip, funky

Trist: 70s production.

Trist: It's hard to explain.

Trist: You'll have to listen to the link we share.

Trist: It's not as acoustic based.

Trist: So he did the key change flip on it, the flip of the vibe of the

Trist: lyric once already.

Trist: And then this one that I've

Trist: chosen is a little bit different

Trist: because it's a little more

Trist: fresh.

Trist: I love the sound of the recording.

Trist: I like the vibe of it with the acoustic instruments.

Elaine: Let's talk a little bit about that because I wrote down as I

Elaine: was listening to it, the instrumentation was very simple,

Elaine: but everything had a lot of reverb, so it sounded

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: like you were in the middle of.

Elaine: I wrote down kind of late 90s.

Elaine: There's a very mushy echo sound to it.

Elaine: And when I saw that it was 1997,

Elaine: I was like, oh, that totally

Elaine: makes sense.

Elaine: Not quite 2000s, not exactly

Trist: Right.

Elaine: this rawer feel, but

Trist: Right.

Elaine: a very kind of more legato feel, I guess is what I would

Trist: Right.

Elaine: say.

Trist: Which is way different than, again, I think the other one he

Trist: did in '78, maybe?

Trist: So definitely a "life out on the streets" vibe, kind of

Trist: detective-showy sound to it.

Trist: Again, a minor key, turning the vibe of the song on its head.

Trist: Um,

Elaine: But

Trist: so

Elaine: there was a slide guitar in

Trist: yeah,

Elaine: it as well.

Elaine: Right.

Trist: I

Elaine: And

Trist: like

Elaine: I

Trist: that.

Elaine: felt like that was something that was very different as well.

Elaine: Just thinking about, well, what

Elaine: about this song doesn't sound

Elaine: 70s?

Elaine: Because I was looking on YouTube and I was like, all right, you

Elaine: know, here we go.

Elaine: Michael Johnson I'm like, wait a minute.

Elaine: There are multiple versions of this.

Elaine: How do they differ?

Elaine: And yeah, tell me a little bit

Elaine: more about what you hear in the

Elaine: instrumentation.

Elaine: I've just mentioned two things.

Trist: Like the previous episode about bluegrass artists, it's very

Trist: much like that where there's a lot of acoustic instruments.

Trist: I like the addition of the slide guitar solo in it.

Trist: I just like the acoustic openness of the sound.

Elaine: I wanted to add in that there is this guitar in there that are

Elaine: playing a lot of I wrote down jazz chords, which to me is

Elaine: generally like major sevenths, nines that you have thrown in

Elaine: there as well.

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: But the thing that really struck me was the bass and what the

Elaine: bass was doing.

Elaine: There was what I would call a poll bass in there.

Elaine: The entire song is moving around

Elaine: it, but the bass is holding the

Elaine: same note.

Trist: I think we've talked about that before.

Trist: Because, listener, Elaine and I

Trist: come from different backgrounds,

Trist: even though we're both

Trist: musicians, you'll hear different

Trist: things.

Trist: I've always heard that as a pedal tone.

Trist: But I've heard this before as well.

Elaine: I think

Trist: Yep.

Elaine: I don't know where I got this

Elaine: poll tone thing from, but I feel

Elaine: like maybe it's from church

Elaine: bells where

Trist: Could be.

Elaine: like- but that's tolling, right?

Elaine: And

Trist: Yep.

Elaine: not necessarily polling, but, um,

Trist: This happens

Elaine: there's a

Trist: frequently,

Elaine: sense of like, it doesn't change.

Elaine: And

Trist: Right.

Elaine: like the entire song moves around the single note, whether

Elaine: it's a pedal tone or a poll tone

Trist: it does pedal for quite for quite a bit of it.

Elaine: What does it do for you to hear that?

Trist: That's always an interesting energy thing, because the chords

Trist: are indeed changing.

Trist: But it gives a different vibe, there's a grounding to it.

Trist: But then almost adds a little bit of a tension, like you're

Trist: waiting for it to move.

Trist: Even before you realize that's what it is.

Trist: There are examples of pieces of

Trist: music and songs where it never

Trist: does happen and it just builds

Trist: tension throughout.

Trist: Some film scoring has this technique as well occasionally

Trist: just to build.

Trist: Even with changes happening in

Trist: the chord, sometimes keeping the

Trist: bass note the same, pedaling

Trist: through the whole section can

Trist: build tension.

Trist: You're wanting it to change with everything else.

Elaine: And we talked about that last

Elaine: season with the Björk "Overture"

Elaine: tune,

Trist: Ooh

Elaine: right,

Trist: yeah.

Elaine: where we were talking about.

Elaine: There was this pedal tone.

Elaine: And I think that was not necessarily a bass tone.

Elaine: I think that was somewhere in the middle in the orchestration,

Trist: Oh,

Elaine: I

Trist: I

Elaine: can't remember.

Trist: don't recall.

Elaine: Yeah. We can all go back to that episode.

Elaine: I'm sure we'll link to it at some

Trist: And

Elaine: point in time.

Trist: share with a friend.

Elaine: Exactly. But I agree with you in

Elaine: that this single note that holds

Elaine: this thread can introduce that

Elaine: sense of tension because this

Elaine: note is not necessarily in the

Elaine: chord of the changes that are

Elaine: being made.

Elaine: And so your brain is going on the one hand with the change in

Elaine: the chords and what's happening in the treble.

Elaine: And you're like, oh, but this is

Elaine: not necessarily a part of the

Elaine: chord.

Elaine: Maybe he's holding a fourth,

Elaine: maybe it's holding a second, and

Elaine: it changes the way that you feel

Elaine: that chord.

Elaine: That's part of the reason why I feel like that's such a big part

Elaine: of this song for me, is that it does introduce that tension

Elaine: between the minor key and just these changes that we are not

Elaine: hearing in the bass.

Elaine: It's introducing a lot of texture that I think would not

Elaine: be there otherwise.

Trist: Absolutely.

Elaine: So tell me a little bit more about the song.

Elaine: Why did you choose this particular song?

Trist: Just the multiple dimensions that we're talking about, the

Trist: original: "What a day this has been / what a rare-" I guess

Trist: that's the one difference is right away, instead of "what a

Trist: day this has been," It's "what a night this has been."

Trist: So that is the change in the lyric.

Trist: There's a few others, but most of those are generational rather

Trist: than changing the mood.

Trist: Like "when that bell starts to peal," like no one says that.

Trist: So, um, that lyric is altered.

Trist: And again, the musical mood and

Trist: key and textures that are around

Trist: that and the way that it's

Trist: delivered can absolutely change

Trist: it from just extolling the

Trist: excitement of a new love, to not

Trist: that.

Elaine: So tell me a little bit more about how the original song

Elaine: manifests in "Brigadoon."

Elaine: Like what, at what point in time in the story and what kind of

Elaine: story is it trying to tell?

Elaine: What kind of emotional value does it have in the musical?

Trist: Oh, I'd love to sound like I'm super educated and I know any of

Trist: the answers to that question, but I have zero idea whatsoever.

Trist: It's an amazing question, if I

Trist: actually knew any of the answers

Trist: to that.

Elaine: All right.

Elaine: So I guess we have some research to do afterwards,

Trist: Can't,

Elaine: but.

Trist: can't know, can't know everything.

Trist: That's why people can write in and they can let us know here at

Trist: The Musician's Loupe.

Trist: They can let us know how this character feels in the show.

Trist: I could imagine what it would be, but I do not happen to know

Trist: in this particular show.

Elaine: I see, so that means that you

Elaine: also do not know whether the

Elaine: Frank Sinatra version is closer

Elaine: to the original, or whether

Elaine: that's a reinterpretation that

Elaine: Frank Sinatra brings to a lot of

Elaine: his songs.

Trist: Oh, I do know that.

Trist: I do know that most of the

Trist: versions of it that you ever

Trist: hear are far closer to the vibe

Trist: and feel of the original

Trist: musical.

Trist: I just don't know where in the show it goes.

Trist: I don't know anything about the characters.

Trist: I don't know the show itself very well.

Trist: I'm not very well versed at that part of it, but I have heard the

Trist: music from the original show, and there's going to be a Nat

Trist: King Cole, there's an Ella Fitzgerald- It's a pretty

Trist: frequently done Great American Songbook song that's been sung

Trist: and played thousands of times.

Elaine: So with that, how would you

Elaine: contrast this version of it to

Elaine: the versions that everyone has

Elaine: done before?

Trist: it is thought of like, "What a day this has been," it says it's

Trist: almost like being in love.

Trist: Of course, that's the wink wink joke.

Trist: The joke is in the line.

Trist: "It's almost like being in love."

Trist: And they explain all of these things that are being in love.

Trist: I think most people, as they hear this, if they've not heard

Trist: this version before, will be surprised and for the first time

Trist: think that those lyrics could be interpreted in another way that

Trist: you can't really glean from the performance that you usually

Trist: would hear of this tune.

Elaine: I agree that I hear a bit of melancholy in

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: this version of it.

Elaine: First of all, minor key.

Elaine: Second

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: of all, just the tenderness in his voice.

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: It is not something that is really sung front and center.

Elaine: It's not very exuberant.

Elaine: It's almost a little bit reflective.

Elaine: And

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: in a way that is almost, I don't know how to put it.

Elaine: It's not exactly depressive, but

Trist: Right.

Elaine: it is not necessarily something that is good.

Elaine: It's almost like Eeyore, like

Elaine: what, happens if you stick

Elaine: Eeyore in front of a love song

Elaine: or something?

Trist: Right.

Elaine: Like, ohhh-kayyy.

Elaine: The line that really sticks out

Elaine: to me is: "Can't believe this is

Elaine: real."

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: And so I don't know whether what I'm hearing is a fear that's

Elaine: coming out that

Trist: Right.

Elaine: potentially what I'm feeling right now is something that I'm

Elaine: afraid is not real.

Trist: Right.

Elaine: And so there's a sense of, I think I'm falling in love, but

Elaine: I'm not entirely sure.

Elaine: And how do I feel about this?

Elaine: And almost talking yourself out of it in some ways,

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: I don't know if that's exactly what you hear.

Trist: I want to clarify, I think just

Trist: the presentation being so

Trist: opposite.

Trist: I don't think it becomes a non love song anymore.

Trist: It's showing that these lyrics can be seen in a different way.

Trist: It doesn't feel like brand new love that you're excited about.

Trist: It's almost like, oh man, I

Trist: really shouldn't be falling in

Trist: love with this person, and yet I

Trist: am.

Trist: It's resistant new love.

Trist: It's just a different attitude

Trist: all around that you get from

Trist: this delivery than from the

Trist: musical or your favorite

Trist: interpreter of the Great

Trist: American Songbook.

Elaine: Just thinking back on the songs

Elaine: that we've reviewed over this

Elaine: season and last season, thinking

Elaine: about the covers that we've

Elaine: covered.

Elaine: Certainly, earlier this season we just reviewed "Cool," from

Elaine: West Side Story in the cover that Patti Austin did.

Elaine: Last year, we did "Over the Rainbow," with Lorez Alexandria.

Elaine: There was the George Michael

Elaine: version of "I Can't Make You

Elaine: Love Me."

Elaine: And so as I think about it, you

Elaine: and I have talked about this

Elaine: before.

Elaine: There are some covers that are a

Elaine: little bit closer in style to

Elaine: the original.

Elaine: And so it's more like, oh, I'm trying to sound like this.

Elaine: We just did one last week, where

Elaine: they were even trying to sound

Elaine: like the indie rock band as

Elaine: opposed to sounding like

Elaine: themselves.

Elaine: And then there are these

Elaine: reinventions where it really

Elaine: just takes it in a different

Elaine: direction.

Elaine: I guess it just brings to mind

Elaine: this perennial question we've

Elaine: tried to talk about on this

Elaine: podcast: it's two different

Elaine: approaches, and I'm wondering

Elaine: how much of a spectrum there is

Elaine: in between these two extremes of

Elaine: really strong reinvention versus

Elaine: as faithful to the original as

Elaine: possible.

Trist: I tend to feel like the straight

Trist: ahead cover is more common for a

Trist: live setting.

Trist: The saying I like to say is, well, the world already has

Trist: that, so why record it as close to exact as possible again?

Trist: We've already got that.

Trist: Now, if in a live concert you'd like to try to replicate this

Trist: thing and like present it as part of the set of songs you're

Trist: sharing and, remember how cool this song is?

Trist: Great!

Trist: And so even all those singers

Trist: who might sing this similarly,

Trist: there's still an arrangement

Trist: that's done, like someone's

Trist: arranged and put their horn

Trist: parts in it or maybe changed a

Trist: few chords.

Trist: This song does have a verse in

Trist: front of it that's frequently

Trist: done.

Trist: now when you're recording, it's

Trist: like, ooh, I'm going to

Trist: completely change the mood of

Trist: this.

Trist: I'm going to talk about a love that's a different kind of love,

Trist: or I'm going to talk about a love that maybe happens to two

Trist: people later in life or that are more mature, or it's not always

Trist: just bright and happy.

Trist: Like there can be a melancholy to these kinds of things.

Trist: And so that kind of an

Trist: arrangement, it's like, yeah, I

Trist: want to document that, I want to

Trist: record it.

Trist: It feels more like the less

Trist: originality you bring to it, the

Trist: less you hear people wanting to

Trist: necessarily do a recording of

Trist: it.

Trist: Because the world has it already.

Trist: is what I like to say.

Elaine: Well, when you were talking, what came to mind were a couple

Elaine: of indie bands that I was really into for quite some time.

Elaine: One of them, Moxy Früvous and

Elaine: the other one, Da Vinci's

Elaine: Notebook.

Elaine: And you and I both know people from DVN.

Elaine: And both of them had just sheer out reinventions of some of

Elaine: their core pieces that they recorded as studio.

Elaine: So they have two different studio versions.

Elaine: One of them is more of, oh, okay, here's an upbeat version

Elaine: that everyone knows and loves, knows all the lyrics to.

Elaine: And then here's another version that's like the grunge version.

Elaine: Or like, what would happen if

Elaine: you reinvented this so that this

Elaine: is the like depressive,

Elaine: alcoholic version of this, I

Elaine: don't know.

Elaine: But there is something

Elaine: delightful about those

Elaine: reinventions as well, because

Elaine: people have such a grounding in

Elaine: their original that it breaks

Elaine: their mind to hear something

Elaine: different or it tickles them

Elaine: because it is a reinvention of

Elaine: something that they know so

Elaine: well.

Elaine: I go back and forth about that because I enjoy both of them.

Elaine: And I think it's an artistic choice that people can make.

Trist: And this is where, of course, the jazz fan in me comes in,

Trist: where I like the variety.

Trist: I like the essence of jazz music is taking these melodies, even

Trist: if it's a melody you've written.

Trist: But then, immediately kind of your own theme and variations,

Trist: which is also an old thing.

Trist: You've got classical musicians: Oh, this is variations on a

Trist: theme from this other composer.

Trist: I think that's always been

Trist: around like combining the

Trist: familiar.

Trist: Like you said, with a cappella

Trist: groups better than with cover

Trist: bands, a cappella group's like,

Trist: great.

Trist: If I sing this just like the song, I already have an original

Trist: element in that we're doing it with our voices.

Trist: So there's an original element and then, hey, we're doing a

Trist: song you've already heard, so you already like it.

Trist: So we don't have to do the work

Trist: of creating a brand new amazing

Trist: song, even though that could be

Trist: the case.

Trist: It happens a lot, whether we're

Trist: a regular cover band that just

Trist: covers it.

Trist: It's like, okay, that's fun.

Trist: You're not listening to their artistry.

Trist: You're going out for a fun night

Trist: to hear a band play songs that

Trist: you know, instead of just

Trist: listening to a DJ play the

Trist: songs.

Trist: Even being in like an a cappella

Trist: group, again, you have this

Trist: original element with the

Trist: familiar.

Trist: So I think that's sometimes the case here too.

Trist: It's like, okay, here's this

Trist: familiar song, but what am I

Trist: going to do to get your

Trist: attention?

Trist: And so you've got the magical combination of this thing that I

Trist: know, so I'm drawn to it.

Trist: Oh, now that you have my attention, let me check out all

Trist: the things that you've done with it that are your creative.

Trist: So it's almost like writing a

Trist: brand new song using an existing

Trist: song.

Elaine: Right.

Elaine: Well, anything you want to add before we wrap up?

Trist: I think that's it.

Trist: I'd love to hear from folks

Trist: about their favorite versions of

Trist: these.

Trist: And maybe what your favorite version is even of the two

Trist: Michael Johnson versions.

Trist: Or your favorite Great American Songbook singer.

Trist: There's a lot of great versions.

Trist: I'd love to hear from folks about that.

Trist: And you can do that where?

Elaine: You can contact us via email at

Elaine: [email protected] or

Elaine: via Threads or Instagram

Elaine: @themusiciansloupe.

Trist: Please do that.

Elaine: All right.

Elaine: So we're going to switch over into our.

Trist: Mailbag!

Elaine: That's right. The Mailbag.

Elaine: And we're looking forward to

Elaine: hearing from you about any of

Elaine: the topics we've talked about

Elaine: above.

Elaine: Definitely drop us a line if you have some thoughts.

Elaine: We love hearing from you.

Elaine: So this week we are once again in Threads.

Elaine: And this is a message from

Elaine: @silhouette13studio from August

Elaine: of 2026.

Elaine: And he writes: "Musicians, what's the most physically

Elaine: demanding part of touring?"

Trist: Hmm.

Elaine: And you have done probably 100 times more touring than I have.

Elaine: So I would love for you to go first.

Trist: It really depends on each person.

Trist: A lot of it depends.

Trist: It depends on what kind of tour, what kind of musician you are.

Trist: What do you play?

Trist: What do you sing?

Trist: What are the demands?

Trist: What kind of environment?

Trist: Are you lucky enough to have luxury touring?

Trist: I kind of joked about it in saying that the answer is the

Trist: most physically demanding part of touring is touring.

Trist: But there's a little truth in that it really is just every

Trist: part of it.

Trist: Because physically you might be

Trist: sleeping in different places

Trist: every night if you're on a bus

Trist: tour.

Trist: For some, that's way better.

Trist: For some that's worse.

Trist: If you're doing a lot of flying, obviously the physical demands

Trist: that flying requires.

Trist: So it's knowing what you're doing.

Trist: Are you a vocalist?

Trist: So you need to maintain things for your vocal health.

Trist: But even if not, just being

Trist: healthy and getting some

Trist: workouts in, because you're not

Trist: just sitting in some kind of

Trist: transportation, whether it's in

Trist: the sky or on the ground, making

Trist: sure that you're still able

Trist: bodied and have all of your

Trist: facilities to perform at your

Trist: best.

Trist: And just making time to make sure you have the amount of

Trist: sleep that you need to the best of your ability.

Elaine: And that's not even talking about time zone changes.

Trist: Yeah, you just never know.

Trist: And, it really depends.

Trist: In Europe, being a smaller,

Trist: concentrated area, like you

Trist: might be in a different country

Trist: every day.

Trist: And if you're doing that and flying around.

Trist: Every day, that means probably a 4 or 5 AM lobby call to make a

Trist: flight that gets you to the place that has a buffer just in

Trist: case there's something wrong or delayed with the flight.

Trist: All of that built into it where,

Trist: if you get lucky enough that you

Trist: can route even a week of it just

Trist: on a bus where you, can sleep in

Trist: a bunk on a bus, that might not

Trist: sound great, but man, for me,

Trist: that's amazing.

Trist: Don't have to worry about checking in and out of a hotel,

Trist: checking in and out of a flight.

Trist: You're just there.

Trist: You save so much more time and you get so much more sleep.

Elaine: As you were talking, one of the

Elaine: things that came to mind was

Elaine: business travel.

Elaine: I've definitely done some

Elaine: business travel on behalf of my

Elaine: company.

Elaine: And some of the hardest things

Elaine: for me has been the extroversion

Elaine: and having to be "on" at all

Elaine: times.

Elaine: Especially if you're traveling

Elaine: with people, okay, let's

Elaine: coordinate dinners.

Elaine: What time are we meeting?

Elaine: How much time do I have to myself?

Elaine: And then when I'm on the road

Elaine: and talking to customers all the

Elaine: time, it's like, okay, I got to

Elaine: be on my A game for this 90

Elaine: minute meeting.

Elaine: And then we got to sit in traffic to this other thing for

Elaine: this lunch that we're having with another customer and

Elaine: another customer over here.

Elaine: I need to go another 90 minute meeting.

Elaine: And then we have like a 200

Elaine: person event that we need to

Elaine: host.

Elaine: And so all of those things is a lot of output.

Trist: Sure.

Elaine: Um, and when you're talking about just emotional output, so

Elaine: there's this sense of having to be an extrovert.

Elaine: And I am a little bit of an

Elaine: extrovert, I'm not as much as I

Elaine: think I might seem, but that

Elaine: focus on, well, how "on" do I

Elaine: need to be at all points in

Elaine: time?

Elaine: And so travel days, great.

Elaine: I can be in my t shirt and jeans

Elaine: and whatever, and we can have a

Elaine: three hour train ride to another

Elaine: location, but it does take it

Elaine: out of you to be constantly on

Elaine: the move.

Elaine: But more than that, constantly surrounded by people.

Trist: Indeed.

Trist: And if you're partaking in something where you need to also

Trist: have a just before or just after the show where you're doing a

Trist: meet and greet or you're signing items for fans.

Trist: That's another thing.

Trist: Sure, you're not performing.

Trist: But like you said, you have to be "on."

Trist: You have interviews where you have to be "on."

Trist: You don't get to downshift.

Trist: That plays an important part as well.

Elaine: For me, business travel is also, oh man, like hair and makeup.

Elaine: That takes twice as long as any other type of thing.

Elaine: Me getting out of the house, I need to be fully prepared for

Elaine: all the things that might happen when I'm at the venue.

Elaine: So do I have all of my charging gear?

Elaine: Do I have backups for my backups?

Elaine: Do I have my water bottle?

Elaine: Does it have a filter on it?

Elaine: All of those tiny little things

Elaine: that can make or break an event

Elaine: is the type of thing that you're

Elaine: thinking.

Elaine: It's like a wedding every day.

Elaine: You're like wedding planning every day.

Elaine: I do wonder, hearing me talk about business travel, how close

Elaine: do you think it is to your experience of touring?

Trist: I think it's a lot of similarities because there's a

Trist: lot of different kinds of business travel also.

Trist: Different people have different experiences.

Trist: There are a lot of different levels to it, even financially,

Trist: that maybe your company can or can't afford to do.

Trist: So to some degree, some people would think, "Oh wow, that's

Trist: your business travel?

Trist: That's like luxury.

Trist: That's like not even traveling" when they would see maybe what

Trist: you got to do.

Trist: I'd say it's probably comparable.

Trist: There's a lot of the similar things in terms of like, we both

Trist: even use the phrase of like "being on" all the time.

Elaine: The impact on the body is also probably pretty heavy as well.

Elaine: And I will also say that one of

Elaine: the privileges of working in a

Elaine: corporate touring environment, I

Elaine: guess, is that the number of

Elaine: late night events is very, very

Elaine: low.

Elaine: So we're not necessarily doing two shows a night and then

Elaine: having to unwind and go to bed and then get up at five o'clock

Elaine: in the morning.

Elaine: If we get up at five o'clock in the morning, we generally don't

Elaine: have anything beyond like an early dinner the night before.

Elaine: And so I think that is a little bit better.

Elaine: I do have some friends who for decades of their lives, worked

Elaine: as corporate evangelists.

Elaine: And so they were on the road for, I think the first year that

Elaine: I got to know them, these three gentlemen were comparing how

Elaine: many days of the year they were on the road.

Elaine: And it was somewhere between, I

Elaine: think they were like 269, 270,

Elaine: and 271.

Elaine: And that to me is more than comparable to someone who is

Elaine: full time as a touring musician.

Elaine: I'm also curious because recently the algorithm has been

Elaine: sending me a lot of videos from people who are working on cruise

Elaine: ships and who do that full time.

Elaine: I know that you've done a couple of cruise ship gigs as a

Elaine: traveling musician, but did you have a chance to talk with full

Elaine: time musicians on cruise ships and what their life was like?

Trist: Yeah, you'll occasionally get to talk with folks like that.

Trist: It's very different.

Trist: I've only been on as what they usually call a "fly on" act.

Trist: So, part of an entertainment

Trist: that just goes on the boat for

Trist: one week.

Trist: We arrive in the middle of one cruise, perform one night only

Trist: for those people on that cruise, and then they leave the ship,

Trist: new people get on the ship, and then you perform one night only

Trist: for the next set of people.

Trist: So they at least get two shows out of you, and you still get to

Trist: be on for a week.

Trist: So you kind of leave in the middle of the next cruise.

Trist: So those are "fly on" entertainment that's usually

Trist: concert pianist, string quartets, comedians, acrobats,

Trist: just a variety of shows that could be that.

Trist: But then there are musicians who

Trist: are, oh, I'm a bass player on

Trist: this ship, so I play for that

Trist: one singer in the lounge on

Trist: Tuesdays.

Trist: On Wednesdays I play in the show band in the theater.

Trist: So a musician that just plays all over a ship, they have

Trist: contracts that are usually 3, 6, or 9 months, I believe?

Trist: So that's a completely different thing.

Trist: Snd I have very much enjoyed the fly on and just be on for a week

Trist: and leave because it's just like you're just on a cruise and I

Trist: had to perform two times.

Trist: So it's like you're on a cruise and instead of paying for it,

Trist: you get paid to be there and you quote unquote work two nights of

Trist: the seven that you're on.

Trist: So, very much spoiled in that regard.

Trist: Whereas also the working

Trist: musicians that are on most of

Trist: the time, they also have other

Trist: duties.

Trist: When you get on and you have to

Trist: do all of the emergency

Trist: procedures, like, oh, I'm the

Trist: bass player, but I'm in charge

Trist: of Deck 2A at the beginning of

Trist: every cruise to tell the cruise

Trist: people where to go in case of

Trist: emergency and where their life

Trist: preserver is.

Trist: And I always have to clean up

Trist: that area on Thursdays or

Trist: whatever.

Trist: There's just other random duties because they become more helpful

Trist: in being crew to keep a whole ship in shape.

Elaine: One video that I was watching recently had to do with the

Elaine: social turnover and thinking about the social impact of

Elaine: living on a cruise ship for, 3, 6, 9 months or even longer,

Elaine: depending on what type of contract you have and whether

Elaine: you renew your contract or not.

Elaine: And just thinking about the social bonds that we form.

Elaine: We all have friends, we have

Elaine: friends that we've known for a

Elaine: really long time, we get to talk

Elaine: with them.

Elaine: And so when you're – I don't want to say – trapped in a tin

Elaine: can, but if you're on the ship for a long time, you don't have

Elaine: the benefit of being so close to the people that you love.

Elaine: And I think that that is something that is a good

Elaine: reminder to me about the sacrifices that people make to

Elaine: be able to make this type of living and thinking about the

Elaine: differences between the tours, and then you go back home in

Elaine: between, or the tours where you're part of a traveling city

Elaine: for 6 months.

Elaine: I know you and I both have friends who do that as well.

Elaine: The impact that it has on your families, your friendships, your

Elaine: activities that you do outside of work, etc..

Trist: Well, two things.

Trist: This is also why it's usually great for younger entertainers

Trist: right out of college.

Trist: It's a great place to just get reps to get better at your

Trist: craft, out as a professional.

Trist: And then the thing you're talking about, the fact that

Trist: there's so many people coming and going, but then you become

Trist: even stronger and even closer to the people who are on all the

Trist: time, the people who have the longer contracts that you're

Trist: there with, because most of the boat is changing every week.

Trist: And so you have your crew, all

Trist: of your people that you know,

Trist: that are in your shows with you

Trist: or just other people in other

Trist: parts of the crew that are

Trist: longer lasting members on the

Trist: boat.

Trist: Really, there are a lot of things that, you would think

Trist: aren't attractive about it, but man, to someone just coming out

Trist: of school, they don't have any other jobs that they've been

Trist: offered anyway, or they're not paying as much, or it pays about

Trist: as much, but this is consistent and it's always happening.

Trist: And all your stuff is kind of taken care of because you're

Trist: living on a boat.

Trist: So there's a lot of positives about it for a young entertainer

Trist: coming out of school.

Elaine: Well, any last thing to say about this before we wrap up?

Trist: No, I mean, touring is tough just because of touring.

Trist: That's it.

Elaine: Well, I agree with you.

Elaine: So before we wrap up completely, we would love to remind you that

Elaine: we have playlists and we would love for you to share them.

Trist: That's right.

Trist: One big, long Season 1.

Trist: And now we're slowly adding to Season 2.

Trist: It's a really good road trip playlist, that Season 1, a

Trist: variety of artists on there.

Trist: Share that with some friends.

Trist: And even if that's it, they'll just know we exist.

Trist: And if they come across a song that they want to know more

Trist: about, well, then they can check out that episode.

Elaine: We really appreciate you.

Elaine: Thank you for joining us this

Elaine: week and we will see you next

Elaine: week.

Trist: See you soon.

Elaine: I was like, what?

Elaine: That's not.

Elaine: Is that really where it's from?

Trist: All right.

Trist: Thanks for joining us this week.

Elaine: You surprised me.

Elaine: The stunned look on my face like, wait,

Trist: I was like,

Elaine: what?

Elaine: My language is already starting to go.