Balancing the needs of aging parents while supporting young adult children is no easy task—and for millions in the sandwich generation, it’s a daily reality.

In this episode of the Where Parents Talk podcast, host Lianne Castelino dives into the realities of the sandwich generation—those balancing the care of aging parents while supporting young adult children with guest Dr. Shirley Davis.

A seasoned HR leader, global workforce expert, best selling author, podcaster, entrepreneur, CEO of SDS Global Enterprises and mom of one, Davis is also part of the sandwich generation. She shares hard-earned wisdom on navigating hormonal shifts, protecting emotional well-being, and mastering the subtleties of communication.

The conversation explores how technology, device dependency, and social media can blur boundaries, challenge consent, and strain family dynamics. Dr. Davis also offers practical strategies for fostering independence, addressing bullying, and creating healthy, respectful relationships across generations.

Takeaways:

• Navigating the complexities of the sandwich generation requires open communication and understanding among family members.
• Emotional health is paramount for caregivers; self-care practices like exercise and relaxation ensure well-being amidst responsibilities.
• Balancing device usage and social media can empower teens to communicate effectively while maintaining their independence and emotional health.
• Setting boundaries is crucial for caregivers, as it fosters a respectful dynamic with aging parents while allowing for personal space and discipline.

This podcast is for parents, guardians, teachers and caregivers to learn proven strategies and trusted tips on raising kids, teens and young adults based on science, evidenced and lived experience.

You’ll learn the latest on topics like managing bullying, consent, fostering healthy relationships, and the interconnectedness of mental, emotional and physical health.

Links referenced in this episode:

• whereparentstalk.com

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• SDS Global Enterprises

FOREIGN.

Welcome to the Where Parents Talk podcast. We help grow better parents through science, evidence and the lived experience of other parents.

Learn how to better navigate the mental and physical health of your tween teen or young adult through proven expert advice. Here's your host, Lianne Castelino. Foreign.

Welcome to Where Parents Talk. My name is Lianne Castelino. Our guest today is a global workforce expert and a best selling author.

Dr. Shirley Davis is also a former HR executive, a podcaster and an entrepreneur. She is the CEO of SDS Global Enterprises and has more than 30 years of experience advising organizations on leadership and workplace culture.

Dr. Davis has her own foundation. She's also a mother of one and a member of the sandwich Generation. She joins us today from Tampa, Florida. Great to be with you. Thanks for joining us.

Thank you. It's wonderful to be here. I appreciate the conversation.

Well, and we're talking about the sandwich generation, and you describe yourself as being proud to be a member of the sandwich generation.

Why is that? Well, part of it is because I have the pleasure and I would say the responsibility of taking care of my own parents who are in their 80s now.

Dad's 82 and mom is 81.

I'm really proud to be a part of that generation, to be able to take care of them in a way that allows them to live their, as I say, their next to last chapters, their best life. And I'm glad to be able to give that to them. I am also one of the sandwich generations that's still working.

And also my daughter is, you know, in her 30s and helping her navigate through careers and, you know, relationships and life. So it's a, it's a wonderful opportunity to be able to balance all of that.

And let's talk about that balance because just that description would give a lot of parents, you know, a reason to feel sort of faint and wonder, how does she do all this? Because many parents find themselves in the same boat as you. So how do you go about striving to find that balance?

Gosh, you know, it's a lot. It's never going to be even like this, right? Where everything is all, you know, on the same level. Some of it, sometimes it's just prioritization.

Sometimes I have to delegate, I have to ask for help. I have to say, look, I need a timeout. I have to do a lot of my own work to make sure that I'm not overburdening myself. I've learned how to say no.

I work with my parents to set boundaries. And so it's all of those things. Right. Asking for help and making sure that you practice some self care and me time and prioritizations.

You can't do everything. And so don't feel guilty when you can't. It's all of those things together and being able to manage all of those expectations.

Absolutely.

And now, as somebody who is involved in so many different things over and above and beside caring for your parents and your daughter, what was the hardest part for you to. What kind of adjustment was the hardest for you to make to accommodate all that balance that you're trying to achieve?

Yeah, you know what the hardest is, and most people can probably relate, is trying to get your parents to give up the life that they've known. My parents have been in the Same House for 40 years.

It was my dad who always prided himself on taking care of us and being the head of the household and the man of the house and. And now I'm asking him to uproot everything, sell everything, or most everything.

There are some things I said you can bring those things with you, but a lot of things I had to. That can't transfer to Tampa from. From Washington D.C. which is where they're from.

So the hardest part was just making sure I convinced dad, not necessarily mom, because I had her at hello.

It was dad, the man of the house, who really wanted to hold on to, you know, what he knew, hold on to comfort and familiarity and hold on to his sense of manliness.

And I had to really work with him and help him to see that this wasn't a loss, that this was a gain, this was a blessing that you'll be able to sell you your home and not have to try and take care so much as you get older. And if you get sick and aren't able to do it, you'll already be with me and I can be able to help, you know, help take care of you in those ways.

So I think that was what was able to really convince him.

Any particular obstacles that you personally had to overcome as this high achiever with all this stuff going on when it comes to managing this?

A lot of them, you know, actually I did put my love life on hold. I'm single.

And so, you know, the dating had to kind of subside a little bit because I knew that that was my priority is helping them to sell their home, helping them to pack up, helping them to move, and then once they got here, helping them to get acclimated to a whole new environment, new doctors and, you know, new medical procedures and Just navigating, just geographically. For me personally, it's very time consuming and so I had to, when I knew that they were coming.

I recommend that people have some time and space so that they do be able to commit to. They can be able to commit to.

Helping them to navigate being available, helping them to set up everything, making phone calls, going with them to doctor visits, helping them to transfer their driver's license and their, you know, their tags. It's those little things that we don't always think about that were helpful. So for me, it was just balancing the types of relationships that I had.

Dating got put on hold for a little bit, make sure that they're good. The other thing too, it's just being open to their ideas and giving them flexibility. And I had to give them a lot of ways that they could do things.

So give them options, not make them feel like now they gotta buy by all your rules. But let's set rules together.

Let's have family meetings, let's talk about what's working, what's not working, you know, consistently, not when you allow things to kind of get a little bit more stressful, but let's minimize stress and let's have those kinds of conversations early on. So it's making those kinds of adjustments. And I would also say the last thing, lots of patience. Yeah. Being patient and understanding.

And I looked at it the opposite way versus saying this is a burden. I looked at it as a blessing and I said, you know what? My parents are not going to be with me always and they may not be mobile always.

And so I have the opportunity to enjoy them now and to help the rest of their lives be the best of their lives. And that mindset from a growth perspective really helped me to. To be more patient and understanding.

Certainly you have amassed a lot of lived experience when we talk about the sandwich generation. But curious as to what inspired your deeper interest in this area. To the extent that you talk about it and you've got a podcast that deals with it.

What fuel that?

A couple of things. I'm a human resources veteran. I've been in HR for over 30 years, so I've been deal with it a lot. Even in workplaces.

It's a lot of what my clients have been requesting over the last seven to 10 years as we are now dealing with five generations. And the sixth generation Alphas came in last year. Right. They're the youngest of us.

But because companies are dealing with a lot of the demographic shifts and the complexities, one of the most common calls that I was getting was, can you come in and train us on how to lead more effectively across generations?

So I knew it was a challenge inside of companies, I was consulting with them on strategies for how to really shift their archaic and sometimes their outdated policies to be accommodating now of a much younger generation. When you look at the statistics, it's really startling, right?

Because recent research tells us that nearly 30% of the U.S. adults are actually in that sandwich generation. But about 67% of them, 67 million, I should say, of them are actually dealing with this and trying to navigate.

Navigate work as well as home life balance. So it's an issue at work and at home. And because I'm in hr, it became a real thing.

And we got a chance to live together.

And I had lived with my parents for over 40 years, so we were reintrod, introducing ourselves to each other because I left home at 17 and never went back. Right. I went to college and then started my life.

And so I got to understand and reintroduce myself to my parents as an adult grown woman, a career woman and a mom. And they introduced themselves to me again as older parents because I knew them when I left in their 30s and 40s. Right. So very different.

And I got a chance to see that my parents had slowed down. I got a chance to see that the things I used to ask them to do, they couldn't do them as fast or as much anymore.

Some things that my dad couldn't do anymore, like going way up on the top of the roof of the house. Right. So I started to see those things and that's what precipitated the interest.

And I'm like, wow, this is millions of us that are dealing with this, companies are dealing with it. So let us take it on, head on and provide some strategies and real world, raw experiences.

So building on that point a little bit more, are there any particular stressors that you're seeing affecting today's sandwich generation?

You talk about your parents being in their 80s, your daughter being in her 30s, but there are all different kinds of sandwich generation demographics. But are there any other stressors in particular that people today are facing who are part of this group?

Yeah, I think the biggest stressor that I hear a lot from focus groups that we do, and even when we do worker engagement surveys, they want to be able to balance it all. They want more flexible work. So that's the biggest thing, right, is they want flexible work.

And now companies are returning to the office, many of them to a very different degree. Right. Some two and three days a week, some one day a week. But at some point, there's that transition that's happening again.

So flexibility is the number one stressor.

Those who feel like they don't have enough flexibility at work to be able to handle it all, and then those who are being asked to come back into the workplace when they sort of had gotten into a routine of how they could work from home and take care of their parents, some of them are having to deal with elder care.

And whether that's putting them in facilities or senior assistants, assisted living, or having home health care providers come in, those are stressors, in addition to having younger children at home that also have responsibility. So there's a lot of that back and forth. That's the biggest stressor.

So what would you say then to somebody who finds themselves in one of those examples?

Let's say they've been hybrid or remote since the pandemic and now are being asked to go back into the office multiple times a week when they have figured out how to be flexible, being, you know, at home for most of it, maybe there's not a choice in their lives and they're managing again, elderly parents, young kids, whatever the situation is for them. What would you say to them?

It's a couple of things.

So one is I always ask them to, you know, make sure that you're checking in with your parents, seeing how they're doing, what their needs are, so that you sort of a needs assessment even of your parents and of your children. What are the needs? And then I'm big on making sure that you build a network of support. You cannot do it alone.

You and your husband, or you and your spouse and partner can't do it alone. So be willing to ask for help.

Look at what are some of the resources that are available both at home in your community, but also in your organization. Because sometimes people don't realize that the employee assistance programs are available to them.

They're not always aware of some of the benefits that their companies provide, whether it is elder care benefits or if it is, maybe some kinds of discounts or partnerships that they have. So that's very important.

I think the other part of it is boundaries, is making sure that you set boundaries with your parents, with your children, and set some clear expectations.

Like I told my daughter, I was a single mom when I was growing up, and I said, look, I won't be able to make every single event that you're involved in, but let me know what's really most important to you. And those are the things that I will prioritize. And so she'll tell you that there is rarely anything that I missed. I think that's important.

And then I think the other part around the boundaries is, and the expectations is start to delegate and make sure everybody is pitching in, that everybody is carrying their load to the extent that they can so that you don't feel like the burden is all on you or your spouse. So everyone has to be a part of living together and making it work. Well, all of those things I think are very, very key and critical.

And the other last one I'll say is just don't over commit to things that, you know you can't do.

If it's not something that's in your wheelhouse of expertise or you just don't like it, or it wears you out and stresses you out, be willing to delegate and ask for help that way too.

As you know, as a mom, guilt is a formidable force and especially as a caregiver. And now you've got, you know, these two sort of ends pulling at you.

Are there unique differences with respect to culture, gender, age groups that you found with your experience when it comes to caregiving and the load and how to manage it?

Obviously, if you are helping, you know, taking care of your elderly parents, there's a huge generational gap in the ways that they were raised and the values that they hold versus the younger generation, your children that may be in their 20s and 30s. And so I think it's important to continue to talk about those things, but also to meet in the middle.

You won't be able to do everything for your parents at the way that they want it. Like, a lot of my time is spent even with my parents just trying to navigate technology.

So what I've been able to do is sometimes I'll be like, I delegate it to my daughter, say, look, can you help your grandparents with all the technology stuff, the TVs that they watch, the cell phones and stuff that they have Those are important, but then it's also value. Sometimes they don't understand each other.

I've got a different value system as a Gen Xer than my daughter, who's a millennium than my parents, who are traditionalists, right in their 80s. So we all have to talk and we all have to come together to an agreement as you know what, that's your era. But this is her error.

Whether it's things that require like for example, shifting mindsets around dinner time, like my daughter is not necessarily one that every Sunday you're going to have dinner. That's the way we grew up. That's the way my parents grew up.

But the younger generation, right, they want to sit and watch TV and eat at the same time or they may not be at the table.

If they're going to be at the table, they're going to have their, their technology with them, making those kinds of tweaks and adjustments and talking about them. So you won't be able to swing everybody to the extreme pendulum. So find a way to meet in the middle.

So Sunday is that day where we come together and we have dinner and no phone zone, right? Just come and let's talk and let's, you know, enjoy each other. But that's not something you're going to do every day, those little tweaks like that.

Dr. Davis, what would you say are some of the common or most common emotional challenges that people within the sandwich generation may experience and what they should, should they should be mindful of, really?

Yeah, I think you hit on one of them, right. Is guilt that I may not be able to do all the things.

I think the other common emotion too is just the stressor of the financial pressure that that might also require.

I mean, I know for me, you know, when my parents moved in, I'm not asking them to, to pay, you know, anything, but, you know, to contribute if they want to, to help with food. But your bills are going to go up, right? Because utilities, the lights are on more, water is being used more.

And so I found that to be a somewh a stressor because it increased. So that's something to think about. The other stressor is sometimes just seeing your parents getting old in front of you older, I should say.

And some of the illnesses that they may experiences and the challenges, sometimes the emotional stress can also be, is that they want you to take them places. So you become the Uber driver as well. And you're helping, you got to take care of them and make sure they're good. So it's those kinds of things.

So it ranges everything from guilt to, for me, what I think on the other side of it is complete excitement, joy and peace that I can spend as much quality time with them while they're here. Same thing with my kids. They're spending quality time with their grandparents as well.

And I just feel like whenever that time does come and they transition to their next life, that I will not have any regrets. So I'm grateful to be able to have that opportunity now to spend that. But it's also that toll can be a lot of may feel a sense of. What's the word?

Overwhelmed. Because they know that that day is coming. And, you know, for me in their 80s, I hope they live to be over 100. Right.

But that may not always be the reality.

Yeah, I. I'm curious, was that always your mindset, in terms of looking at it as, you know, a blessing that you have this time to spend?

Because it seems to me that if entering this kind of phase of life as a sandwich generation individual, if you have that mindset, you're already ahead of the game. Did you start with that?

I didn't. Let me tell you why. Most of my career of 30 years was in corporate America. I traveled 60 to 70% of the time. I really didn't think about it.

And I knew that I lived alone and I knew I was going to make sure that they were cared for. I didn't see any of that until I got to live with them again. And I began to see how much I seen them change and slow down and not do as much.

And they were aging, and it was those three years of snowbirding with them during those four months that I started saying, wow, we've lived together for these four months. We've been okay. We haven't had any real issues and any disconnects. We've been able to talk things out, get along.

And I started to see then the importance of not being so busy that you forget about your parents or being so busy that you don't see the shifts and the changes that they're going through as well. That's when it started, it's like, wow, I've had the chance now to spend really good quality time with them.

As they're getting older now to their 80s, I want to spend more time with them. And as I've gotten more successful in my career, I can afford to now take care of them as well. So that's when it started, was just a few years ago.

So, no, I hadn't always had that. I've been a great daughter.

I've always loved my parents and we've always been really close, but I wasn't always thinking of, I'm going to take care of them because I've got three brothers, right? And so we just hadn't talked about it, but that's when it came up.

You've talked about boundaries a few times. Certainly so critical to the success or lack of when you're talking about the sandwich generation.

What would you say that healthy boundaries should involve? What does that look like?

So a couple of things. I had to remind my parents that while I'm still the daughter, I'm a very grown adult woman who has her own mind and who can take care of herself.

So some of the boundaries was, I'm not gonna have a curfew, right? Just because you living with me now, if I'm not home by 10 or 11 o', clock, I'll just let you know, I'm not gonna be there.

But you don't need to ask me where I'm at, what am I doing when coming home. So boundaries around still maintain your level of independence and your lifestyle also boundaries around, right?

Who's going to take care of certain responsibilities around the house? So for my dad, because he's still mobile, I'm grateful for that.

He wants to be able to take care of the lawn and if things are irrepared, he wants me to check with him first. Before calling a repairman, I was always used to calling contractors in.

It's those boundaries of giving them some freedom, them some liberties, but finding out what they can't do.

So when my dad can't do certain things, what we've agreed to is I'll call the contractor and make him the foreman, so he's the one that deals with them, he lets them in.

Even with mom, some of the boundaries are, I can't always take you to every doctor's appointment, but I'll go to the ones that are key and critical so that I can ask questions and be there. It may be, for example, my. It's funny with. With my dad, he's you know, I'm such a daddy's girl and he's so protective. But my dating life, right.

We had to set some boundaries around that is, I'm not going to introduce you to everybody, you know, that I'm going out with, but when it's time, I'll bring them home. But you don't need to ask questions until I'm ready.

So those kinds of things, when I'm here working from home and they're here, we have to set boundaries around noise levels and time frames of when they're going to be walking through, past the camera in the office. Office. Right. Those things and the noise level. So certain things like that. It's so many of those kinds of boundaries that we just had to, to.

To think about and work through.

Many of the parents who will be watching and listening to this interview will have parents too.

We are parents will have kids who are in their teens and the, you know, the always adventurous adolescent years in many households at the same time, time as managing their older parent or their parents as well in an older age group. What would you say to that group of parents?

Because it is so demanding when you think about the Internet and social media and relationships and, you know, isolation and all these things that are currently affecting young people today.

Yeah, there's so many shifts and changes and their challenges a little bit different than my parents challenges or either ours right in the middle. And so I think it's very important to be very observant with the kids, know who their friends are, know what they're looking at online.

I did the same thing with my daughter, who's a millennial now, was I set boundaries about her phone time. I do have access to her phone itself, to her records, how much time she's spending on it.

There's a certain time where curfew is in place after 11 o', clock, you know, lights are out and, you know, put cell phones and stuff down. So it's those kinds. I'm grateful now that the school system has kind of set some of those kind of ground rules as well.

But I think those things are important. But it's talking to them and it's understanding what their needs are, but also what they're struggling with, what their challenges are too.

And so coming together and trying to meet in the middle and have some rules, some consistency, but also being open and understanding when you don't always see the things that they're faced with.

So much of what you're talking about really is rooted in communication and clear communication across generations so what could you say in terms of offering tips or suggestions on how families can really have productive conversations who are in this group of being in the sandwich generation?

Yeah. I think it's important to ask them, you know, how was your day? Just checking in with them. And when you ask how is their day, be interested. Right.

Sometimes parents, we can ask the question in the middle of doing something else and we're really not listening. So I think that's a very important one, is to not just be visible, but to be present, be present with them.

Perhaps that's the dinner time conversation. Tell me about your day. What went great about your day? I like to always celebrate what went well.

With my daughter when she was in school, I stayed in touch with the teachers. I didn't miss parent teacher meetings when those went on. When she was in events at school, I was making sure that I was there.

But also just observing what's going on around the environment. Right. Who she's hanging out with and how she's perceived.

The other thing too is around the observation of them and the communication is to just watch them and how their countenance may change or their moods change.

A lot of times kids are dealing with things online and are dealing with things at school and if their countenance continues to change and their disposition and behavior shifts, be willing to go a little bit deeper and find out, make sure they're not being bullied at school or feeling isolated or. Or those kinds of things now that kids are dealing with, now that we didn't deal with to that extent in that degree. So I think those are important.

I've also too, I recommend that sometimes if it's not just asking them, it is having them to just tell you.

Maybe I had my daughter sometimes just write down suggestions of how can I be more informed, how can I better support you in what you're doing and what are you really interested in doing outside of school? Extracurricular activities. I kept my daughter very, very busy because I didn't want her to be so idle.

And when she was busy, whether it was dance, gymnastics or playing sports, I was very involved with that as well. That allows them to build trust with you. It allows you to be able to see things they may not say.

But then I think always having that open communication and not being so quick to judge and not being so quick to always give the solution, sometimes they just want you to listen and they want you to mirror back what you just heard them say. We can ask them, how can I support you? What would you like for mommy to do to help you with that, those kinds of things.

Where does self care fit in the grand scheme of all the different things that you do? When we talk about the sandwich generation and what would you advise somebody entering this phase of life with respect to self care?

It's so critical.

It is going to be one of the most important and significant aspects for you, you to remain, you know, stable minded, to, to keep peace, to be balanced and to stay focused. So for me I, I do practice self care on a daily basis, right. So I make sure I get my sleep. For me I, I love to get massages.

That's a great way for me to decompress. I power walk every day. So in the morning I'm up at 7 walking 3 miles.

In the evening before I go, you know, before I go down, I decompress by walking again. So I'm doing those six miles a day. Some people may exercise, I think that's important. I will sometimes just take a vacation.

Even if it's just a two day getaway. What I call a me treat, where it's just me retreating away.

Going to the ocean and going to the water is a great way for me to also de stress and decompress. I encourage people to do that. That's so important.

Even if it's sometimes self care can just be for me, my prayer time, my meditation time, it can be yoga class. But we've got to have an outlet. Sometimes it's talking to friends and venting to them and hopefully that feels better.

Sometimes it might just be, you know, watching a good comedy and making you laugh because laughter really is a medicine. So it's those kinds of things.

But I encourage people find a list of things that you can do on a daily basis to make sure you're practicing this self care, but totally get to sleep, eat right and make sure that you're getting the proper exercise. Because you can't give from an empty cup. You can't put poor.

Absolutely not.

When we talk about the numbers and you, you went through some of those numbers at the beginning of our conversation with respect to the sandwich generation and it's just going to continue to grow.

When we, you know, talk about where we are with the elderly and, and all of that, do you see a need for fundamental policy change or you know, significant shifts in the workplace place to be able to better address this proactively?

Absolutely, absolutely. So I still work with companies and their HR departments and their leaders.

HR from a perspective of setting new policies and making sure that they're upgrading and updating based on the needs of, you know, this new demographic of talent. I call it the new generation of workers, which is six generations now.

So making sure that if you want to attract top talent, top talent cares about flexibility. So embedding in your policies opportunities for people to have flexible time just like they have vacation time, just like they have sick time.

Allow that if they, and I tell leaders on the opposite end is, you know, manage to results and not butts and seats. Just because I'm not there with my foot in the seat doesn't mean I'm not being productive. Not mean, doesn't mean I can't work.

Because just because someone is at work and their butt is in the seat doesn't mean that they're productive. Doesn't mean that they are actually, you know, connected. They may be online and disconnected and disengaged.

So I think all of those things are very important. Important. So hr yes.

Thinking about how we can formalize these policies, how we can include elder care as a benefit as well as flexible work policies being very open to. When you talk about return to the office, that can look very different. It doesn't have to be four or five days a week set at eight to five.

There's a lot of jobs that can be get, you know, can get done and can be flexible based on the output and not just hours, hours and number of days worked.

If you could leave parents who are either about to enter the sandwich generation or early into it with a one piece of advice that could be game changing for them. What would it be?

Yeah, I would say as we enter into these new stages, let's embrace life as it comes and treat it as an opportunity to continue to grow, grow and not only grow older, but to grow in grace. We have to have grace with each other. We have to grow old and as I say, age gracefully as well and be willing to make the age adjustments.

There are certain things I know in my 50s that I can't do anymore that I used to do before. Be willing to just lean into that and know that you are still worthy, you're still enough. There's still so much that you can give.

There's a lot that you can give back and pay it back forward that the next generation needs.

So no matter how old we are, what stage we're entering into, as I say, make the adjustments, but know that you are still worthy and you're still valuable and we still need you as well.

So much insight to consider. Dr. Shirley Davis, podcaster, entrepreneur, author, Sandwich Generation Member, thank you so much for your time and your pleasure.

What a pleasure. Thank you. Great talking with you. To learn more about today's podcast, guest and topic, as well as other parenting themes, visit whereparentstalk.com.