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Bill Russell: Today on Keynote

Theo Theodosiou: (Intro) An organization deals with the environment. An enterprise dances with the environment. An enterprise actually helps shape the environment.

Bill Russell: My name is Bill Russell. I'm a former CIO for a 16 hospital system and creator of This Week Health, where we are dedicated to transforming healthcare one connection at a time. Our keynote show is designed to share conference level value with you every week.

Now, let's jump right into the episode.

(Main) . All right. It's keynote today and I am really excited to be joined by Theo Theodosiou, a founder and chief practice officer for the Theo Transformation Advisory and someone who played a significant role in my life at St.

Joe's. Theo. Welcome to the show.

Theo Theodosiou: Thank you, Bill. Pleasure to be here.

Bill Russell: really looking forward to this conversation. But before we get into it too far, people are going to say, who is this guy? He's not a technology guy. Why are we talking? Talk a little bit about about Theo advisory.

What do you do and how do you engage with health systems?

Theo Theodosiou: Bill, it would be the greatest understatement , on earth to say that our industry in healthcare has been undergoing significant change and transformation, but I would say most of that change and transformation has arrived at the doorstep of the industry.

It has not been initiated. with intentionality. And at the end of the day, what we do at that view of Transformation Advisory is guide good leaders and worthy organizations on the path to becoming true enterprises, on the path of becoming defining organizations. And so that's what we do.

Bill Russell: Would it be Safe to call it culture work, or is it more than culture?

Is it leadership? What aspects do you really focus in on?

Theo Theodosiou: are three platforms, for lack of a better word that we focus on. And you could actually imagine how each of them relate to technology and a commitment to infrastructure as a strategic advantage, the first platform is talent transformation.

So we focus on. Individual talent and how that talent, advances, how it is selected, how it is invited, and is the entire person invited to contribute all their gifts, or are they being given a box the moment they arrive to live in, if you will. So the first one is leadership advisory.

The leadership advisory being the key offering of talent transformation. Then you go to culture transformation. Because as you know very well, Bill, you have to go to culture transformation if the changes that you're affecting in individuals don't come to be embedded or locked in the culture of the organization, they're short lived.

They are around while those people are around it. You and I have experienced organizations that experienced the change in leadership. And when the individuals left, a lot of things left with them. So culture transformation is about that intentionality to build a strategic culture, a leadership culture that enables transformation and of course, improves present performance.

And then the third level is enterprise transformation. And that is, indeed, how does the organization fit in its environment? And is it an enterprise? An organization deals with the environment. An enterprise dances with the environment. An enterprise actually helps shape the environment. And as you could see from the, just the simple standing of the three platforms, we operate at the micro, at the meso, and the macro level at once.

That's what we do.

Bill Russell: I opened this by saying it was one of the transformational events in my career. I will say that I was sponsored and I remember this process of sponsorship. You were an integral part of it. That my sponsor was Deborah Proctor, who was an amazing leader at St.

Joe's. And I remember walking out of that meeting. And I want you to talk about sponsorship a little bit. And the difference it made to me as an individual was dramatic. Like I went home to my wife and I'm like, I've never had a conversation like this in my entire life. business career. I feel so valued right now.

It was just transformational. I want you to talk about sponsorship a little bit.

I

Theo Theodosiou: would be delighted to, Bill. I believe it's a transformational construct. And so the usual relationship between a leader and the organization is that the leader is engaged to bring their talents to the organization, to bring their competencies, align those competencies with the organization and make a contribution.

You don't see, however. is the creation of an enabling structure around the leader, no matter how senior and how capable a leader is. We like to say that 60 percent of your success depends on your contribution, and the other 40% depends entirely on sponsorship, both in having the sponsorship and feeling sponsored.

And so think of sponsorship and performance as different rails on the same bridge going in opposite directions. Performance goes in one direction, but so the expectations of the organization of what you will contribute. Sponsorship goes in the other direction and that is how the organization will enable you to grow, will invite all of you, will anticipate your needs and ensure that you have everything you need to be successful.

And so if you if greatness requires a measure of safety and a feeling of safety, performance environment does not create safety. It creates tension. It creates anxiety. And honestly, your success last year becomes your punishment the next year because more is expected of you, right? That happens to talented people everywhere.

And so that's one model without the sponsorship, there isn't a true invitation. To the individual. And I believe that invitation that was issued to you was very meaningful in the setting that you and I shared, And I believe sponsorship can be not only an accelerator to your contribution, but it's also a fantastic retention mechanism because people who feel sponsored are not as inclined to surrender the opportunities they have.

Bill Russell: really is a transformational concept. want to dispel some thoughts here, in that it was a very honest conversation. about who I was in the organization, where I was running into walls, where I was causing problems in the organization.

It was a very, but it started with this whole concept of we are sponsoring you. We want you to be successful. We want you to you, you are a part of our vision for what this organization can be and we want to help you. And as we talked about the areas where I was causing challenges for the organization and people who listen to this show can imagine.

I say some provocative things. As a CIO, I would say provocative things and people would get and you and Deborah were sitting there going, yes, there's a time and a place for that, but here are the times and places for it. Here are the times and places not for it. And I still remember, I, this is crazy.

Cause it's over 10 years ago. And I remember. Both of you really talked to me about gratitude and you're saying, look for me personally, I was very grateful for the people who are doing all these things. But I was not expressing my gratitude to the organization, to people.

And that lives with me 12 years. That kind of conversation lives with you because it was, Hey we're in your corner. We're going to make this, we are committed to you and we're going to make you better. And by the way there's a commitment from you as well. And so it's not like you're not holding them accountable.

It's not like you're not,

Theo Theodosiou: No, on the contract. We have friend, the more sponsored you are, the greater the expectations. But let me go to, you said that conversation, that was a sponsorship dialogue. And so I want to define what a sponsorship moment is. So someone can tell you, Bill, you're being disruptive.

And , that message is coming to you in the context of a discussion of performance and all that. You'll become defensive. You're likely to try to explain why, you've experienced that way and that you actually misunderstood. But if the person you're speaking to is your sponsor, and they say to you, Bill, we need to have a sponsorship moment.

And in this sponsorship moment, I'm giving you this information that your experience is disruptive with your creative ideas. The very idea that this is a sponsorship moment changes everything, because obviously I am attempting to give you a gift, because I am here to ensure your success. So from the very beginning you're likely to receive the very same words, receive them differently, and actually process them differently.

And then from that comes Insight that you generate and trust that is built with your sponsors. And the moment you don't feel alone, the moment you don't feel isolated, you take your Dukes down a little bit and then you can express the gratitude.

Bill Russell: think one of the things that people listening to this might feel like, what happens If performance gets so bad, I have to let that person go. If they're sponsored, can you let that person go? So a sponsorship

relationship is an organizational relationship. It is not to be confused with a personal relationship and a personal friendship. I may fire you one day and invite you to my house for dinner the next day as my friend.

The, sometimes the finest action of sponsorship is to actually guide a leader. beyond the boundaries of this organization that you're in. But here's the thing, when you're highly sponsored, these things are not surprises.

Right.

Theo Theodosiou: Because you're in the flow, you're in the dialogue, you know what's coming.

And, your sponsors are aware. I will tell you the greatest sponsor I've ever met. I'll give you a story that you're going to enjoy. The greatest sponsor ever met. is up there, but Marianne Thody, she was the president of Northern California for Kaiser Permanente. She was a phenomenal sponsor, not only because over time she demonstrated her commitment to the talent that she had responsibility for and guided them, but she was famous for doing the following.

She would walk up to someone's desk and she would put a resume, a job posting in front of them that came from another organization. That's it. And they would say, I wanted you to know that this existed, but you know fully I would hate to lose you. No one ever left.

Bill Russell: Yeah.

Theo Theodosiou: How much must you care about that person to ensure that they're aware of their opportunities?

Where else would that person go and have anyone who cared that

Bill Russell: much about them? My two questions about sponsorship, and then I want to move on to culture because culture is so important. Somebody listening to this might say what you just described is not the culture of my entire organization, but can I do this within the IT organization?

and still function well within a culture that's maybe not wholly there as a larger organization.

Theo Theodosiou: I have seen it done. I've seen it done in finance organizations. I've seen it done in IT organizations. What it requires is a leader who's determined to create that kind of a sponsorship environment.

Now, the limitation is that , until it becomes a cultural phenomenon, if you will. If your people are transferred out of the IT organization, it's exactly like that. Might as well have transferred them to another country. Exactly. Exactly. And that's the limitation, but can you create a, can you create a, an environment where people feel sponsored?

And by the way, to what you said before, there are expectations. And one of the key expectations is that if you're sponsored. You're expected to sponsor others. So the sponsorship gift doesn't stop with you. It goes from you to others. And you are expected to bring yourself fully, both in your present capabilities and in your potential.

Bring yourself fully to your work.

Bill Russell: So two quick questions. How long after you hire somebody before you sponsor them? And how many people can, and again, you're saying it's not an individual thing, but it is, how many people can a person sponsor?

Theo Theodosiou: So dear friend, I don't think you should ever recruit anyone who's not sponsorable. Interesting. And people who are so individualistic from the beginning, so self sufficient and independent are probably going to have other issues in addition to that. But anyone who's not open to a sponsorship relationship is probably at risk.

Because at a minimum, whoever all reports to them, they will not even have the benefit of sponsorship because they're unlikely to extend it to others. So that's the first thing. I would say before you have a handshake that actually initiate the sponsorship commitment.

You need to have perspective on how committed the individual is to the greater cause to the purpose of the organization. How committed Are they to the success of others? And so it's not an immediate thing. However, we're six months into someone joining the organization and you're finding that you cannot sponsor them.

I'm not saying you have to make a decision on that day, but you pretty much know that whatever you're building will not be built on the foundation of this individual. When you cannot sponsor someone, there are reasons you cannot, and those same reasons play out in other ways.

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Bill Russell: Let's talk about culture.

There's no culture that's perfect. By definition, If I'm in the culture, it's not perfect. If people are in the culture, it's not perfect. But there's an intentionality of building a good culture. What does a good culture look like and feel like?

Theo Theodosiou: So to begin with, dear friend, if I say nothing else today.

You just offered the biggest gift that can come out of this podcast. And that is any culture that is intentional is a great culture. Any culture that is intentional, most cultures that are default cultures assembled, like European villages are, in the beginning, and then something was added and then something else.

And these spaces, isn't that face of West. The default cultures are almost always problematical, but intentional cultures, so the very idea that you set out to weave something that would be weight bearing, the very idea, the moment you decide that You have, I think, a significant advantage.

And so what I would tell you is just to build on that, because you'll make it very obvious, the definition that the firm has introduced for culture and we've used very consistently is in very simple terms, culture is the lived version of your values, Bill. Culture is simply the lived version of your values, not the stated version, but the lived version.

Bill Russell: one that's on all your PowerPoint decks. It's the one That people actually experience.

Theo Theodosiou: Precisely. So therefore, you're intentional as a leader determining the values and committing to those values. And then allow people to live those values as individuals, but to live those values.

Gravit just gravitating to those values, you can just see immediately how the weave begins to come about. That's where that is. And a range of behavior, one of the things that, I'm an organizational theorist, right? I did my, doctorate work at Northwestern.

And I am I am so thrilled that organizational behavior exists because human behavior is quite unpredictable. Organizational behavior, however, is quite predictable. So we, yeah, because what defines an organization, the very elements that build an organization, create a narrower band of behavior that's acceptable and productive.

So as a leader if you're intentional about building a culture, where a consistent set of behaviors, are generated that create the unity within, the value for your clients, your impact on the world. You truly can do that. probably why I considered the organization concept to be a brilliant concept.

It's not just a collection of people. It actually is a living, breathing, institutional being. that guides behavior collects energies and resources, marshals them and aims them at creating value. And so that's where behavior and culture come together and values are right in between there.

Bill Russell: laugh sometimes I see value statements or I see a list of values and there's 12 of them and I'm like, it feels like it's too many.

And the thing I loved about working at St. Joe's was our values were based on the work of the sisters, which was like 100 and something years old. And essentially we were there because they lived out their values, because they went into towns and they said, how can we serve? And so service is absolutely a core value.

But then those will fade away if you don't have stewards of those values. And one of the most impactful things I think that Debra did was the Values in Action program. Which just it just constantly every year brought up. This is what we're about. This is what we value. This is what's important.

And they made videos around the people that were living out the value. guess that's the intentionality that we're talking about.

Theo Theodosiou: Yes. Bill, it's not that hard if you are determined and consistent. Then why are there so many bad

Bill Russell: cultures in organizations?

Theo Theodosiou: Because there's so few leaders in the world, Bill.

Because there's so few leaders in the world. The world is filled with officers and executives. It's not filled with leaders. So if you see yourself as a leader and you're shaping, you're creating something, you're shaping an environment that will make a difference for years beyond your service, you're Most executives associate service with their own tenure.

Don't see the possibilities beyond that. We need more leaders. We need more leaders.

Bill Russell: That's a fascinating distinction. And, you touched on it earlier, is going on beyond you. Obviously, the sisters from a hundred years ago were not around when I was there. But their intentionality of establishing the the values.

Let's assume that I just became a CEO of a company that has one of those lists of 12 values on the thing. It wasn't founded by sisters with that intentionality, or maybe it was, and we've gotten so far away from it. How do you bring it back?

Theo Theodosiou: For one thing, I would say if you have a chance to hit the reset button and actually redefine the values for a modern time, do that, just trying to revive something that has lost its energy is much harder to do.

But Interview a thousand people. One of our clients recently included north of 4, 000 people in this process of redefining their values, asking very simple questions about tell me what's important. Tell me why you joined this organization. And more importantly, Bill, tell me why you're still here.

The answers to those two questions are often different. And so take that, you take that data and you content analyze it to find out what are the consistent sources of meaningful behavior in the organization that attach themselves to the purpose. And so with modern media, with modern technology, the ability to engage more people, and then of course to validate through focus groups and other things.

Doing the work. And of course the very process itself communicates that you value the perspectives of people and that you value the people themselves. And so I do believe that if you have a chance to hit a reset at a time that a new vision is articulated, for example, right? How you'll achieve that is the

values.

Yes.

Bill Russell: So when you come in as a new leader, that's an opportunity. I to reset. What about those organizations where the leader leaves and how do you if it was a great leader, the continuity would be there. But I was thinking like, if the leader leaves and the.

The culture starts to spiral a little bit. How do you I don't know, I guess it comes back to the first word, which you said, which was intentionality.

Theo Theodosiou: Yes, it is intentionality, dear friend. And I will tell you this, the reason I mentioned the culture transformation, just as you said, culture being so important, it's exactly because of that continuity of whatever the unique.

combination is in the organization that creates the value that explains it, its existence, and the purpose it serves. It has to be locked in the culture. And so one of the constructs that we've advanced, and I'm a great believer in, is this concept of community in leadership. Beyond teaming, it's the idea of actually building communities of leaders.

And I will tell you, I can give you three stories and three examples of major organizations that build a community of leadership at the very top. And so when the CEO stepped down or retired or whatever the case may be, it was that community of leadership that actually provided the continuity.

Bill Russell: Yeah, I could see that and I can appreciate that.

so we have talent, we have culture and then we have enterprise is another area. That was an interesting one for me to hear you say, because the first two are just natural conversations and make perfect sense. The third one must have been something you've seen, something that you're like, Hey, Something's changing here, and these organizations are struggling with something that you decided step into.

Theo Theodosiou: Actually, Jeff, it's exactly the opposite phenomenon. And that is starting all the way back to my days at Northwestern, but then my days at Ernst Whitney and Ernst Young, and then for this past 22 years with this firm. Boy, that's a lot of stops, isn't there? But the, what was noteworthy is that so few organizations and companies were noteworthy.

So few were noteworthy. Most of them built in, followed in the wake that was created by great organizations. Found niches that had not been filled and moved into those or, created an alternative and what have you. As it became clear to me from the beginning , that while I believe that every human being is extraordinary, I do.

That's one of the foundations of my life. I believe that every human being is extraordinary. It's just some of us like you or me, Bill, had the good fortune to discover how we're extraordinary earlier in life and we're able to invest that gift, if you will. While I believe that. Every human being is extraordinary.

I do not believe that , every organization is extraordinary. The ones that are have a defining impact on society and their sectors. And so therefore identifying those leaders and those institutions that have the potential. to transform a sector. So you mentioned St. Joseph Health System, for example.

St. Joseph had a profound impact on the entire Catholic healthcare sector. It moved it closer to its original intent. It moved it closer to that, and it established why that sector should exist. Why? What's unique? What is unique about that sector? What contribution is being made? And so then we went from there to, okay, so how are these organizations different?

And the first part would be intentionality in viewing the world as a world that would tangle with. Not a world they need to survive in. And most organizations are figuring out how to hold on to their present prosperity and how to become sustainable. How many times have you heard that word sustainable?

It's everywhere. Sustainability is about holding on to your present, prosperity and impact, if you will. But true enterprises recognize that today's prosperity was invented five years ago. Where will your prosperity come from five years from now? What impact will you be making five years from now?

Therefore, the willingness to see yourself as an enterprise, to assume the enterprise attitude. And in a major sector, a major academic organization, a 5 billion organization that is now a national organization, over this 15 years, we've worked with the CEO, we've worked with the CEO.

And created, first and foremost, that attitude that goal was not to survive. Their goal was actually to successfully defeat the disease category they're operating in. And as a result, they conceptualize themselves and become the first academic national organization. in their sector. No one thought there was a basis or any motivation for anyone to be a nationally distributed.

If you wish to be a sustainable organization, stick to your knitting, stay close to your primary market, right? All those things that you hear they didn't do that. They didn't do that. They instead conceptualized themselves as an enterprise. And building a culture that allows an organization to be an enterprise is critical.

So you can see you have to have the leaders who believe that they're there to do more than oversee performance, you have to have a culture that is so embedded in the values and the purpose that basically says, we have a reason to be here and we will fight to be here in order to serve. And then you have the enterprise opportunities.

So for me, if I were to Reflect on all the sacrifices I've made in my career, in my life, as I'm sure you have. If the majority of those were invested in these true enterprises, when the time comes, I will close my eyes and be at peace. If, on the other hand, I kept organizations alive that were not unique, didn't have anything particular to contribute I would debate that.

Bill Russell: When I look back on my years at St. Joe's and I have conversations with people, a couple of things strike me. One is the executive team. And I was not on the executive council, exec council. I forget what it was called the president's council or whatever it was.

I was a part of the larger leadership team, but not. The smaller group of advisors. That group had a lot of different personalities were very very strong opinions in that room and whatnot. It was interesting to me how external to that room, they portrayed a, a common, Common vision.

And some of that was the culture that the sisters had established. Yes. Some of that was the work that was done to build that community of leaders. that even though they did this, it was very and I'm doing the two fists coming together. And even though they did this in that meeting, when they came out of that meeting, there was a yes.

But as it got out further, you got out to the president's council, got out to the individual ministries, you would have things like, My favorite was the silent veto. The person who sat in the meeting, maybe didn't say anything, or said something, didn't like the way it went and then, everyone says, yeah, this is the way they're going.

You would go to their ministry and you would try, the ministry being the hospital, and you would try to do something and they would say, yeah, I don't have any of those resources to give you. We're not going to be able to support that project. it's interesting. It does take a lot of time and a lot of intentionality.

And plus it's a constantly evolving thing. You're constantly bringing in new leaders, converters and acquisitions. They're, it's a living, breathing thing. I

Theo Theodosiou: mean, how do you, it is different. It is. We've got a fundamental that you will remember because you've lived it. And that is.

It's so foundational. When you think of the other leaders you're serving with, do you smile or do you embrace yourself? Do you smile? If you smile when you think that the people that you're leading with you're in the right environment and absolutely does not suggest they're just like you or anything like you, but you're fond of them and you choose them.

You've all been chosen, but you choose them. So I would say there has to be and fondness. in a senior leadership that will actually function successfully to lead something complex, as St. Joseph was at the time. So that'd be first thought. The second part is that I believe for large organizations, large systems, and I have no doubt that you see this in the technology sector all the time, that everyone would love to have the outcome of something, but few are willing to make the sacrifices and investments that are necessary to bring it about.

I remember years ago when I was a partner at E& Y, we were doing a big transformational project with Coca Cola. This is decades ago. And I ran into Tim, the partner who was overseeing that very large engagement at E& Y. going at Coca Cola, Tim? I'll never forget his answer. He says, they're going well, they're going as to be expected at the end of the first year.

They want to know why the benefits of the seventh year have not appeared yet. So the game of expectations is a complex game to manage. However, I would offer this concept that and this is a concept that is being implemented as we speak across different organizations with significant success.

One of the enemies is not the unavailability of resources. One of the enemies is the endlessness of priorities. Oh, gosh, yes. so there is a concept that we have introduced called a SPOT or SPOTS, that every large system, should have system wide priorities on target.

Theo Theodosiou: That's what SPOTS stands for. Our system wide priorities that are on target, because they can only be on target. There are only so many of them, but any activity involving a spot moves to the top of the queue. So whatever flexibility you have in human resources, in supporting various priorities, any request that comes from a spot goes to the top.

Obviously, you have to be very thoughtful as to what are those few absolutely non negotiable things that are the building blocks for the future, but it's very well received because it is the direct means of actually reconciling the many things that we do to tend to the needs of the organization today.

versus the things that we're doing to ensure the organization's future and impact.

Bill Russell: Can I give you a story? So if healthcare IT organizations look back on COVID with fondness, it's for one reason and one reason alone. It's because the number of priorities came down to Very few, and they were able to really focus and get things done.

They don't look at the pandemic with fondness for any other reason other than, and I say to them, I'm like, how's it going? And they'll say, we've snapped back. There are a million priorities. They're all expected to get done. there's limited resources. And, oh, by the way, they told me I've got to cut 10 million out of my budget and still do all these things.

It's like there's an inability in the culture To either say no or just say yes to a few things that are so important that we have to get them done.

Theo Theodosiou: Yes, definitely. It's probably one of the biggest challenges that I see, which is why we need new ways of thinking and new constructs to allow leaders to behave in some other than the political manner, right?

Because every one of those priorities is sponsored by someone in the organization. So therefore, anything being secondary priority will run into resistance and challenge. However, the chief executive and the cabinet at the top of every system should every year define what the spots are.

Bill Russell: And that's not happening.

And when I talk to the IT, again, A lot of stuff comes down to IT and when they describe how things are happening, I'm like did you set a three year or five year or whatever objective? Did you identify? And they'll say yeah, we have this five year thing, but we don't tie anything to it.

I'm like, I think back to what the work Annette did and the work that Debra and that team did to help us to say no, these are the five things that are important. Every project has to align with those five things. If it's outside of those five things, there's going to have to be some really amazing thing that argument that's made for it, because we've already decided that this is what we are about as a health system.

I didn't realize how enabling that was for me as an IT person, because it wasn't me saying, no, it's look you're There's no money for this. These are the things we're doing.

Theo Theodosiou: So that was a spot. So I would say this to your audience, which I know it includes many strategic, chief information officers and the like.

If you're a part of an organization where for three years in a row, The investment in infrastructure and technology has not become a spot. Examine your options. you're downstream in essence. You're downstream. investing your best of energies in an uphill battle. On the other hand, if you have made that list, Don't waste it.

Don't waste it. Deliver the value. Deliver the acceleration. Deliver what it is that people for. But must say, over the past 10 years, and even coming of the pandemic, just the number of priorities. Organizations right now are very thirsty beasts. And so to go back to the concept of the tyranny of the known, these beasts are very thirsty, and they want to drink now because they're thirsty.

But if they drink everything they have now, there'll be nothing left. There's no future, which is why intentionality, back to that concept that you introduced, and I keep going back to intentionality, in actually providing for a future, And not getting locked in to the immediacy of the known with due respect to the known, because all value that is created by any organization is created by the known, it is created by what you have now, but again, that was decided five years ago, what what will differentiate you, what value will you create five years from now and what transformational change do you need to make in your talent, in your strategy, in your infrastructure, in your culture, in order to ensure that's the

Bill Russell: case.

one of the phrases I hear over and this we'll, I'll start to bring this to a close, but I could talk to you for another three hours. Same here. There's a movie called St. Elmo's Fire and St. Elmo's Fire refers to this light that was out in the ocean and the ships would go towards it, but it didn't actually exist.

And they would just. be shipwrecked. They would go off into nowhere. I hear this phrase all the time. We're hoping to return to pre pandemic performance. And it feels to me like that is chasing the past. Yes. And wonder what you would say to a leader saying, Look. We want to return to that.

We're going to do cuts. We're going to do this. We're going to do this. We're going to return to that. Does that world even exist anymore? The pre pandemic world, by definition, where the post pandemic

Theo Theodosiou: It doesn't exist, dear friend, and it cannot exist. It's I was born and raised in Cyprus and every immigrant has a secret dream that at some point they would like to return home.

Except for the problem that the home they're referring to is no longer in existence. And in fact, even what they remember was barely in existence, it's been assembled by our memories. And so there is no such place to return to. And I would say the energies of people, talent that is coming up in the next generations that are different than our own they don't want to take anything that restore anything back to whatever they want to know what relevance will their efforts and their organization have in the future.

So think even any energy expended into that it's just, unproductive nostalgia. think the question to be asked and answered. is what responsibility do you have for your extraordinary gifts as a leader to translate that into an impact and a legacy of your organization, not your own?

That's the question I ask myself every day.

Bill Russell: Theo, I want to thank you for coming on the show and sharing your wisdom with the community. I am inspired every time we have a conversation and I hope everyone else is. I've noticed you started posting some stuff on social media. If people wanted to hear more of the things you're doing, they can probably follow you on social media or the company on social media, I would imagine.

Theo Theodosiou: That'd be fantastic. Thank you, Bill. Thank you for including me. It's a pleasure to chat with you and see you very much on the path of remaining controversial. Thank you. Hey, thanks again. Appreciate it.

Bill Russell: Thanks for listening to this week's keynote. If you found value, share it with a peer. It's a great chance to discuss and in some cases start a mentoring relationship. One way you can support the show is to subscribe and leave us a rating. it if you could do that. Thanks for listening. That's all for now..