Your probationary year is the year the law protects you least — and the year your agency can move you out without proving much of anything. Though these days, many people who have survived their probationary year feel like they're under similar strain. Regardless of how you feel about your legal protections, and regardless of what those protections are, are there other steps you can take to protect your career?

Southworth PC attorneys Shaun Southworth and Lydia Taylor break down surviving the federal probationary period — and why, after 18 months of RIFs and reorganizations, even employees with years of service feel just as exposed. They're joined by communication coach Ken Canion on handling a boss who's decided they don't like you.

The Docket

Trump v. Slaughter: The Supreme Court held 6-3 (the week we recorded) that the president can remove independent-agency heads "for any reason or no reason at all," overruling the 90-year-old Humphrey's Executor. Most feds' EEOC and MSPB rights don't change — but the agencies enforcing them may feel new pressure from the top. Lydia's takeaway: don't panic, pay attention.

Trump v. Cook: A 5-4 majority blocked the removal of Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook — for now — holding that "cause" still has to mean something. A narrow win, and a reminder these protections are weaker than they used to be.

The Case File: Surviving the Probationary Period

Probationary employees have the fewest protections in federal service — but not zero. You're still protected from discrimination, whistleblower reprisal, and other prohibited personnel practices. Beyond the law, they walk through the survival skills that protect any federal employee: turning vague criticism into a written record, building a "brag file" of your wins, and working a PIP so thoroughly your supervisor has to justify any action against you. You'll know exactly what to send after your next "you're not a good fit" conversation.

The Interview: Ken Canion

A communication coach who trained Southworth PC's leadership team — and a star of MTV's Caught in the Act: Unfaithful — Ken breaks down handling a supervisor who's turned on you, including the reframe that gets your boss to put expectations in writing. Listen for why "the person who asks the question controls the conversation."

Ask Shaun & Lydia Anything

"I'm 10 months into a one-year probation at the VA, and we just got a new acting director. Everybody's on edge. Do I keep my head down and hope this blows over?"

"My supervisor never puts anything in writing. She says I need to step it up, but when I ask what it means, she gets vague. What should I do?"

"My position just got moved to Schedule Policy/Career. Am I about to get fired, and what should I do now?"

Chapters:

00:00:00 — Welcome: the most dangerous year

00:09:03 — The Docket: Trump v. Slaughter

00:16:57 — The Docket: Trump v. Cook

00:23:52 — The Case File: what still protects you

00:27:25 — Documentation & the brag file

00:34:16 — When you're put on a PIP

00:36:51 — The Interview: Coach Ken Canion

01:02:23 — Ask questions, control the conversation

01:13:10 — Ask Shaun & Lydia Anything

01:21:10 — Wrap-up: build what a file can't capture

Resources mentioned:

Ken Canion — coachkencanion.com

Dorothy Leeds, The 7 Powers of Questions

Have a question for the show? Email [email protected] or reach us on social. (Answering on air is general information and doesn't create an attorney-client relationship.)

If this episode helped: leave a five-star review wherever you listen, and share it with a coworker who needs it. Subscribe so the next episode comes to you automatically.

Learn more / get help: attorneysforfederalemployees.com

Free daily newsletter for federal employees: fedlegalhelp.com/newsletter

Podcast home: fedlegalhelp.com/podcast

A quick note: This podcast is legal information, not legal advice. Listening does not make you a client. If something is happening to you at work, talk to a lawyer about your specific situation.

This show is proudly ad-free and sponsored by Southworth PC. Your service is worth protecting — let's protect it together.

Civil Rights for Civil Servants

Episode 2 — Probation: The Most Dangerous Year of Your Federal Career

This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and readability.

A quick note: This podcast is legal information, not legal advice. Listening does not make you a client. If something is happening to you at work, talk to a lawyer about your specific situation.

Ken Canion: Most people think we have to agree, and communication is not about agreement. Communication is about having the platform of expression. That's what it's about — expressing yourself in a respectful way so that you understand me better. Communication is about understanding; it's not about agreement. So what's it costing us? It's costing us relationships. It's costing us the ability, especially in the workplace, to move up. It's costing us, many times, our careers, because we don't say anything. We let others pass us by, we let things happen, and then we harbor the resentment. What else is it costing you? It's costing you your physical wellbeing, too many times, because the anxiety leads to stress, stress leads to cortisol, and cortisol leads to weight gain and high blood pressure. There are so many physical elements associated with just being quiet. It's costing people a lot.

Lydia Taylor: And that's from today's episode of Civil Rights for Civil Servants.

Shaun Southworth: Welcome to Civil Rights for Civil Servants. I'm Shaun Southworth, founding partner of Southworth PC, a law firm dedicated to representing federal employees nationwide and worldwide before the EEOC, the MSPB, the Office of Special Counsel, and everywhere else your career gets decided. I've spent over 20,000 hours fighting for federal employees, and I'm also a longtime mindfulness practitioner — because protecting your career and protecting your peace go together.

Lydia Taylor: I'm Lydia Taylor. I'm the managing partner and co-owner of Southworth PC, and I have the privilege of running the firm's day-to-day operations. I come from the world of public sector HR, where I worked with public sector employees and union representatives on the various issues that come up every day for employees. And now I have the privilege of working directly with federal employees. I've been working in the HR world and the EEO world for going on 20 years — not to give my age away — but I have quite a bit of experience in this field, and I love what I do, especially now, working with Southworth PC.

Shaun Southworth: And together, Lydia and I represent the people who keep this country running. We have different backgrounds and perspectives, but — previewing today's topic and our work with Coach Ken — I think Lydia and I communicate very well, and our differences, and our ability to communicate about them, are really helpful. So each episode, we're going to follow what we did in the first episode — this is our second. We're going to break down the news that matters to your career, we're going to walk you through something you can actually use as a federal employee, and we're going to sit down with people worth hearing from and answer your questions. Let's get to work.

Lydia Taylor: So today's episode, we're going to focus on the year that launched your federal career — that first year in federal service — and the fact that it's also the year most likely to end your federal service.

Shaun Southworth: And in that context, with everything that's going on, this doesn't only impact probationary employees. A lot of people feel like they're effectively living their probationary period again — even if not legally. We're also going to discuss two Supreme Court decisions that landed this week that move the ground under every federal employee.

Lydia Taylor: And we're also going to talk to the communications expert who trained our leadership team on how to handle a boss who's decided they don't like you.

Shaun Southworth: All of that today, coming up on Civil Rights for Civil Servants. And before we begin, just a quick reminder: we're not beholden to any sponsors, so you're not going to hear any ads. This podcast is ad-free, but it's sponsored by Southworth PC. So you won't hear us pushing any crazy products — like a toaster that also plays music, or a yoga mat that doubles as a sleeping bag.

Lydia Taylor: And we have one small request for you. If you enjoy the show, if it's been helpful to you in any way, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, and share the episode with a coworker — someone you think needs it. And if you have a question for our Ask Shaun and Lydia segment, please email it to [email protected], or reach us on any of our social media platforms.

Shaun Southworth: And of course, we're a law firm, so we have to have a little disclaimer before we get going. One final thing: this show is legal information — it's not legal advice. Every case is different, and listening doesn't make you our client. And even if you are our client, we're not giving you legal advice on your specific case through this podcast. If something is happening to you at work, you might want to consider talking to a qualified federal employee attorney about your specific situation. If that's you, you can reach our firm at attorneysforfederalemployees.com.

Lydia Taylor: Welcome to Civil Rights for Civil Servants. Today we're going to be talking about probation — what we call the most dangerous year of a federal career. And why do we call it that? It's the year the law gives you the least protection, and your agency can walk you right out the door without having to do or prove much of anything.

Shaun Southworth: And this episode isn't just for people in their probationary period. I think after the last 18 months, people who've been in their jobs for years — people who felt safe — are in the same spot now, mentally if not legally, as those serving their probationary period. Whether it's Schedule Policy/Career, RIFs, reorganizations, or the new suitability rules that dropped this week, a lot of people's protections are decreasing. So let's talk about the probationary period. There are legal implications, but we're not just going to give legal tips — we're going to give practical tips, so that whether you're in your probationary period or not, here are the things you can do to protect your career.

Lydia Taylor: So the question probationary employees have always had to answer is: how do I survive this probationary season when the law barely recognizes that I'm even here? And the answer, to your point, Shaun, really isn't a legal question. It's about how you communicate. That's why I'm so excited about this episode — we're going to give some great tips to probationary employees, but these are tips that go well beyond that probationary year. These are tips you can carry throughout your federal service. It's about how you communicate, how you document, how you handle difficult situations, how you deal with a difficult boss. All of these things apply whether you're probationary or not.

Shaun Southworth: Exactly. A lot of people feel like their protections are gone, but most federal employees have strong civil service protections today. I don't want people to be misled by that — but a lot of people are feeling that they're gone. So today we're focusing on: if you have weak protections, or think you do, what can you do overall, regardless? And for the communication piece, we brought in Coach Ken Canion, who's a communication expert and trains leaders on exactly this — and who, full disclosure, also worked with our own leadership team. You might have seen him across social media and on MTV, so stick around.

Lydia Taylor: Absolutely. And just a reminder of how our show goes: we're first going to go over The Docket — federal news you need, in plain English, so you understand how it affects you personally. Then we'll go over The Case File — one topic we break all the way down into things you can do starting Monday morning in your federal career. And then, finally, our special guest, Coach Ken Canion. And of course we'll answer any questions you have.

Shaun Southworth: We're going to start today with The Docket. I'm going to take the first Supreme Court decision — one of two — and Lydia will take the next. There were two Supreme Court decisions I think every federal employee needs to know about that dropped on Monday of this week. The first is called Trump v. Slaughter. The last names in legal opinions are sometimes kind of hilarious to me, and this one's appropriate, because the Supreme Court has really slaughtered what we know as the concept of an independent agency.

Lydia Taylor: The irony, right?

And the Chief Justice essentially wrote that if anything was left of that case, the Court was overruling it — so it's gutting it. The practical impact is that there are roughly two dozen multi-member agencies, including the MSPB and the EEOC, and ones that oversee labor disputes and workplace fairness. Now, the Supreme Court says that if the leaders of those agencies are executing presidential power, the president needs to have the power to remove them, regardless of what Congress said. So this was pretty shocking to me.

Lydia Taylor: Yeah, another gutting by the Supreme Court this year.

Shaun Southworth: For sure. And perhaps the most notable one in terms of executive power — they're embracing this concept of the unitary executive. As a lawyer, something that stands out is whenever a Justice reads their dissent aloud from the bench; that's notable, and it happened here. Justice Sotomayor read her dissent and warned that chaos will follow.

Lydia Taylor: There have been some pretty emotional reactions from the bench from the liberal Justices.

Shaun Southworth: Yeah. The New York Times reported that when Justice Sotomayor was reading the line about chaos following, Justice Kagan was emotional. You don't see that very often.

Shaun Southworth: I really do think, if you give the president so much power, what could stop the president from removing the leaders of agencies that are supposed to be independent? Then how are those agencies really independent anymore?

Lydia Taylor: And I think that's the point.

Shaun Southworth: Yeah. Now, I don't want everybody to run for the hills, because this doesn't affect most federal employees' day-to-day EEOC or MSPB rights, or their civil service protections. But the bottom line — why most federal employees should care — is that they usually enforce their rights through the EEOC and the MSPB, and those leaders are certainly feeling less independent when the president can control even the people who are supposed to oversee the process and make sure the executive branch is following the law. It's much harder for those agencies to be independent. So I think that's the big concern to watch.

Lydia Taylor: Agree. I'm curious, Shaun — if a federal employee, a GS-9, called our office and asked, 'What does this mean for me? What actually changed with this decision for the average federal employee?'

Shaun Southworth: First of all, that's such a great question, Lydia, and I'll answer it directly. The reason I appreciate it — and why we need this podcast — is that it's so easy for an average GS-9 employee to be confused by what's going on. So we want to keep bringing the practical stuff. The practical impact is: nothing. And I want them to know that. For almost every federal employee outside the probationary period who's watching or listening today, their rights are the same right now. What they should watch for is, one, that the leaders at their agency are probably feeling they have to be more beholden to the president — and maybe some people say that's the point. And they should watch for the creep: how far does the president get to go in firing employees? I don't think they'd extend this to your rank-and-file employee, but what's the direction of the Court? Where are they going? The bottom-line takeaway for a very busy GS-9 is: nothing happened to you — but keep watching, so you know what's coming down.

Lydia Taylor: That's huge, Shaun. I think the message here is: don't panic, pay attention. And keep in mind that the people who run the EEOC and the MSPB — those agencies being the gatekeepers of your rights as a federal employee — could be impacted by this decision. What happens at the top could potentially trickle down. So it's important to pay attention to what's happening with the leaders of those agencies, because they're the ones responsible for enforcing your rights. And yes, their decision-making could be directly influenced or impacted by this decision.

Shaun Southworth: A hundred percent agree. And these issues are happening right now. This decision came down on Monday, but the Sunday before, the New York Times reported on what could be seen as the president trying to influence the MSPB. They're trying to expand the president's rights in one other area, and the New York Times reported that people perceived the administration to be exerting pressure — in a case where the administration says they were just calling in the acting chair to see if he wanted to be made full-time. Some people perceived it as, 'The MSPB needs to follow this new Department of Justice guidance.' And that's now being heard by the full Circuit Court of Appeals — about the extent to which the president's power over higher-level employees could override statutory protections, including Title VII and the Civil Service Reform Act, for these very employees.

Shaun Southworth: This is happening under an administration where many people see corruption issues. Part of these protections were supposed to stop corruption. And if I'm going to call a spade a spade — some people, some Republicans, have said we need to drain the swamp, which is really talking about your rank-and-file federal employee. But they're not the swamp. The politicians are the swamp. I guess the best I can say is that at least the Supreme Court, in the decision you're going to cover, did hold the boundary — at least for a little bit, in one particular case. But I'm not sure how strong that's going to be.

Lydia Taylor: Glue and tape.

Shaun Southworth: Exactly.

Lydia Taylor: So next up on The Docket is the Trump v. Cook decision, which also came down on Monday. The Court was split 5-4 on this one, in the other direction, saying that the president cannot fire Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook — at least for now. The majority, which included Chief Justice Roberts and, in a shocking twist, Justice Kavanaugh — who joined the other three liberal Justices — said that the Federal Reserve is a different body. Because of its unique structure and history, a different set of rules applies. So what the Court is saying, Shaun, is that even when a president does have the power to remove someone for cause, that doesn't mean he can do it for any reason or no reason at all. Cause actually has to mean something when the president is removing someone like a Federal Reserve governor.

Lisa Cook — the Federal Reserve governor who brought this lawsuit after President Trump tried to remove her last year — is a Black woman, an economist who grew up in Georgia during segregation. She has degrees from Spelman College, Oxford, and UC Berkeley. She built a distinguished career and became the first Black woman ever to serve on the Federal Reserve Board. But last year, around August, President Trump attempted to fire her for alleged mortgage fraud — claims that arose before she even served on the Federal Reserve Board. Had the president succeeded in removing her, she would have been the first governor removed from the Fed in its 111-year history. But on Monday, the Supreme Court said no — they're going to let this play out a while longer.

Talk to me, Shaun, about the distinction here. In the first case, Trump v. Slaughter, the Court said the president can remove the heads of these agencies for any reason or no reason at all. Whereas in Trump v. Cook, the Court is saying cause has to mean something. So what's the distinction between these two decisions?

Shaun Southworth: I think that's the question, and it's a little complex. The Trump v. Cook case really only applies to the Federal Reserve. They basically just said, 'Nope, the Federal Reserve is different,' and that's it. They tried to apply what's called originalism to come up with their rationale, but it was pretty weak — they basically just carved it out differently. Do I agree that it's different, and should be specially protected? Yes. To put it in context: a lot of people know there's the Supreme Court, Congress, and the president — but up there, and not talked about as much, is the Federal Reserve, which sets a lot of our monetary policy and interest rates. They truly need their independence.

Lydia Taylor: Such a conflict of interest, right — to allow the president to have such broad power over the Federal Reserve, because of the body of policy they govern.

Shaun Southworth: Yeah. But really, what's happening is they're just saying this one is different, so this one gets to be a little more independent — and that's it. So that rule will not help anyone else, I don't think. There's nothing historically at the level of the Federal Reserve. And I want to point out how unusual, and how horrible of this administration, this is. As you said, this would have been the first governor removed in the Fed's history. Cook is amazing — super talented. You don't get to this ability to influence the country without being very well-qualified. Bottom line, I think people believe he just wanted her out. So these mortgage fraud allegations — if you think, 'Ooh, mortgage fraud' — no. It was from way before, and it's something a lot of people do inadvertently: you apply for a property, you say it's your primary residence, and you get a little better of a deal. This is widespread. Nothing that would have seriously impacted her ability to do this job.

Lydia Taylor: And it wouldn't be the first time this administration has made this kind of claim, either.

Shaun Southworth: Right. In fact, there are concerns that they went digging for mortgage fraud allegations like this — the same thing with the person who's now in charge of the intelligence agencies. They go through and dig for stuff most people wouldn't care about, just to achieve their ends.

Lydia Taylor: Letitia James was also on the receiving end of the same type of mortgage fraud allegations.

Shaun Southworth: Yeah. And again — you didn't hear about this, for good reason. So what if someone says, 'This is my principal residence'? It's not really fraud in a serious sense. I guess technically it is, but it's not a serious thing — it's widespread. I think people would be surprised. When I think of fraud, I think of wire fraud. Have you committed wire fraud? Did you tell a lie that went across the internet somewhere? Are we going to start charging everybody with wire fraud? I'm not saying we've all done it, but —

Lydia Taylor: It's what we in the legal world like to call pretext.

Shaun Southworth: Yes, exactly right. The other thing I'd say: this is barely holding the line — and I don't think it holds at all, even for the Fed. Because, one, they said she can keep her job, but they can try again, as long as they give her an opportunity to respond, which they didn't give her before. So if they rerun the play, and this time give her an opportunity to respond, I think the Supreme Court might uphold it. Look at how these two cases went: the first one, Slaughter, was 6-3 — all the conservatives versus the liberals. In this one, none of the conservatives except Kavanaugh went along with the Chief Justice; they had to build a coalition with the liberal Justices. So the takeaway from Trump v. Cook is: technically, she keeps her job for now.

Lydia Taylor: For now.

Shaun Southworth: But it's really attacking the independence of the Federal Reserve at the end of the day.

Lydia Taylor: I absolutely agree. Do I see this ruling as a victory? Yes — with some cautious optimism. But to your point earlier, these protections are weak at best. I don't know that it's a long-term victory, because the Court left it open-ended. But for now, Governor Cook keeps her job, and I'd consider that a victory.

Shaun Southworth: I think that's a perfect thing to consider as we get into the next section, The Case File, because we're talking about rights changing as we go along. Prior to any of this, people would ask, 'What's your weakest point in your federal career, when you don't have as many rights?' And that would be probation.

Lydia Taylor: Sure.

Shaun Southworth: So today, in The Case File, we're going to talk about what we can learn from probation — whether we're in probation or not — some tools and tricks we can apply to protect ourselves beyond our legal protections. Probation is still the most dangerous year for feds, as you said. It has the fewest guarantees, but there are still some rights there, and still some lessons we can learn from it. As we go through this, we'll spend a few minutes on what the law still gives you, and then the rest on what the law can't.

Lydia Taylor: So one of the things we covered in our last episode, Shaun, was that if you don't know your rights, you effectively don't have any rights. Yes, the probationary period is the most dangerous time for a federal employee — but I want to highlight what you said, because it's when you have the least protection. You didn't say probationary employees have no protections. They have less than tenured employees, but there are still certain protections in place. So let's go over what those look like.

Discrimination is one of those protections that remain in place. You cannot be fired for a discriminatory reason — meaning your race, color, sex, national origin, age, disability, or genetic information. You are protected from being fired for any one of those reasons.

Whistleblower protections also survive. If you've reported waste, fraud, or abuse, or any type of legal violation, they can't lawfully fire you for that, even if you're probationary. They cannot fire you for prohibited personnel practices, retaliation, or any of the rest of that list — those apply to probationary employees as well. So it's important to know that even if you're in your probationary period, if you suspect any one of those reasons is behind why you were terminated, you need to act, and act quickly.

Shaun Southworth: Let's talk about this not just from a legal-protections standpoint, but about the survival skills we've seen people use to practically protect themselves. In other words, maybe there's no legal protection there — but what can people do, or what situations should they think about, to protect themselves? Last time, we talked about the importance of protecting yourself with documentation. That's one thing. Here we're also talking about protecting yourself with communication. So I'm wondering if you have specific advice or tips about non-legal protections or workplace communication — given your experience representing federal employees, but also in HR — for people going through this.

Lydia Taylor: Sure. One thing I've always told employees — in my role as an attorney and in my role as an HR executive — is that documentation beats conversation all day, every day. So if you have a supervisor giving you vague criticism — 'you have an attitude problem,' or 'I'm not sure you're a great fit' — turn those conversations into documentation. Anytime you hear something like that, follow it up with an email asking them to give you specific examples of your not being a good fit, or your attitude problem. Ask them to get specific, in writing. The great thing is that it's a win-win: either they respond with specific things you can work on, or they don't respond — thereby creating a record that they never gave you any concrete feedback about what the issues actually are.

I'd also say, when you receive verbal counseling without any written warning, document it. Send a confirming email: 'Thanks for the conversation. My understanding is that you'd like me to do X, Y, Z.' Be really clear about what they're asking, and make sure that counseling is now documented. If they didn't document it, you document it. That's really important.

Shaun Southworth: Those are really good examples. You talked about things to watch for — because when this is actually happening, it's hard for people to know what's going on with their supervisor. When you're in your probationary period and you see something like 'you're not a fit' or 'fix your attitude,' that should set off alarm bells — but it's not always that obvious. That's one reason mindfulness fits into what we do at Southworth PC: we don't want you documenting while you're emotional as all this is happening.

Lydia Taylor: You have to be wise about when to protect yourself. If there's anything I'd like federal employees to take away from our conversation today, it's this: trust your instinct. If you have the impression that your supervisor is coming for you, and there doesn't seem to be any particular reason why — trust that instinct, and start to document. Another important tip, Shaun, is not to match that person's energy; that can escalate a situation that's already difficult. To your point, mindfulness is really important, because it's very easy to become emotional when you feel targeted. But this is when you need to be the most clear-eyed and rational, so you're clearly documenting what those conversations look like and capturing information that will help you if you find yourself having to defend your job.

Shaun Southworth: And to your point, other people will sometimes take advantage of this. They'll use your emotions to try to set you off or weaken your position. I think about it as the ambush: 'Hey, we've got to do a quick chat.' You walk in, and unexpectedly, there are people sitting in that room.

Lydia Taylor: Agree. One of the strongest things you can do as an employee — federal or otherwise — is keep a brag file on yourself. Number one, you should be proud of the work you do. And number two, always keep in mind that you are your own best advocate. You know yourself and your work better than anyone else. So anytime you get an email that says, 'Great job on that project,' or 'Great presentation today,' that goes into your brag file. Anytime you receive an award for your work, that goes into your brag file. Your evaluations should be there. Your SF-50 that denotes any promotions you've received — all of it. Keep all the documentation on your wins. You should be able, at any moment, to go into that file and pull out that information — in the event that you hear words like 'not a good fit' or 'not a great attitude.' You have the documentation that shows otherwise.

Shaun Southworth: It helps you keep perspective on what's going on — if they've said things and then start to change their mind. So if you feel you're being ambushed when something's going down, having that brag file and keeping your documentation puts you in a more powerful position going into that conversation. People think they have to address everything right away, but it depends on the situation. If you're feeling ambushed, you can slow it down: 'Can I follow up in writing this afternoon? Can we come back to this?' — so you have time to go through those files. That's the value of this conversation: everything is fact-dependent, but you definitely want to keep those documents, be more intentional about knowing your performance expectations, keep records of all of it — and, of course, listen to this podcast. These are some of the best things we've seen for doing this well.

Lydia Taylor: One thing we should mention, Shaun: last year the IRS let go of about 7,000 probationary employees — and 99.5% of those probationary employees had either fully successful ratings, or hadn't been rated at all. That wasn't even taken into account when they were let go — regardless of the claims that the government was getting rid of unsuccessful employees, or employees who weren't contributing. The data says that's not true. I bring it up to reiterate how important it is to have that brag file, to have those fully successful evaluations you've received — because ultimately that documentation mattered when those probationary firings were overturned.

Shaun Southworth: Yeah, for sure. And that's an amazing statistic. Other big tips right now for people going through issues with their employer?

Lydia Taylor: The one that comes to mind is: if you're placed on a performance improvement plan. A PIP can be a powerful tool to help an employee improve — with metrics that help them improve in a measured way, or achieve the performance their supervisor is looking for. It can be a helpful tool. It can also be something that's weaponized. So the important thing to take away is: if you're placed on a performance improvement plan, work that plan. Become more zealous about your performance improvement plan than your supervisor is. Make sure you're checking all of the boxes — because if the PIP is being weaponized, being used as a medium to get rid of you, it can't be used that way if you in fact check all of those boxes. Or, if it is used that way after you've checked all the boxes, shown up for every PIP meeting, and met every metric, then your supervisor now has to defend why they got rid of you — why you were fired, in your probationary period or any other period of your federal service, after you successfully completed that performance improvement plan.

Shaun Southworth: I definitely agree. If you think your career is worth protecting at that point, talk to an attorney. And to your point about working the plan — a lot of people will work with us because it makes financial sense to them, but also because they're trying to protect their career; it varies case by case. When we help people with that, they might not have a claim yet. We're familiar with the things some HR departments can do to make someone fail the plan without even realizing they're failing it. And the reality is, a lot of PIPs involve performance standards where there's no real benchmark. The more it matters to you, the more you might want to work with experienced legal counsel who knows the plays they try to run. But definitely take it as a very serious thing.

And trying to discuss this, Lydia, is so hard, because we're trying to cover everything that might apply, but these situations are so fact-intensive. That's why, if so much is at stake, working with a qualified federal employee attorney could be beneficial. But sometimes people can't do that — so we're just trying to give them some of our insights, so they can think about it.

Lydia Taylor: So our guest today is someone we know personally, and someone I'm sure a lot of you have already seen. His name is Ken Canion. He's a relationship coach, a communications expert, a consultant, and a star of MTV's Caught in the Act: Unfaithful. He reaches millions of people online, but we love and appreciate him as Coach Ken — because he came into our firm and coached our leadership team on how to communicate better when our firm was in high-growth mode and we really needed to understand how to communicate with each other effectively to sustain that growth. So we're really excited to have him. Civil Rights for Civil Servants — please welcome Coach Ken Canion. Thank you for joining us today.

Ken Canion: Thank you guys for having me. Good to see you, Shaun, Lydia. I see how much you've grown, and I'm so proud of you. I'm over the moon about your growth — it's exciting.

Shaun Southworth: I was talking to Lydia about how much you helped us during a time of extreme growth, as federal employees were being impacted so much. Lydia and I have to make hard decisions rapidly, all the time. I thought our relationship was pretty solid before, but creating the space for us both to say what we needed to say, and to build that relationship — all those practices you put us through were really game-changing for us. So thank you so much for that. That was amazing.

Ken Canion: My pleasure. Love it, love it.

Lydia Taylor: So, Coach, we're so excited you're here — and thank you for coming and working with our firm and our leadership team. Before we jump into our main questions, can you talk to me a little about when you knew that relationships and communication were your gift and your calling?

Ken Canion: That's a very good question. Let me see. I've been talking a long time. Even when I was young, I would talk — but my mom used to say to me, 'I wish you would shut up. Boy, you talk too much.' And I'll never forget the day I said, 'Mom, somebody's going to listen to me one day.' I think I knew at an early age that, number one, I liked people, and I wanted to be around people. Even when I was little, in school, I would raise my hand — even if I had the wrong answer, I was always willing to speak. And I knew back then that there was some power in that, because everybody who spoke, in a way, people would listen. I won't say it was innate, but all my life I've been the one who wasn't afraid to speak up, even in the hard conversations. I just knew, growing up, that I wanted to speak, and that people would listen.

Shaun Southworth: Well, again, thank you, Coach Ken, for being here. Many people know you as a relationship expert, a leadership and communications expert in the boardroom. You deal a lot with helping people communicate in difficult circumstances. And I think federal employees right now would say they're in a difficult circumstance with their supervisor — maybe they like them, maybe they're worried about their career. So why are we so afraid of hard conversations, and what does avoiding them actually cost us?

Ken Canion: Those are two good questions. Let me answer the first. Fear creates anxiety, because anxiety is the visceral, nervous reaction — the body reacting to the unknown, to uncertainty, when we don't know. Anxiety and excitement are the same emotion — the same emotion with different anticipated outcomes. When you have anxiety, you anticipate the outcome to be negative; notice how you think of all the things that might go wrong. When you're excited, your body does the exact same thing — your breathing changes, your body tenses up — but you anticipate the outcome to be good. I'm excited about going to the game; your body does the same thing. The difference is the anticipated outcome. So, to go back to your question, why are we fearful of having those conversations? Because we anticipate the outcome to be negative. No one wants to walk into a negative situation, because we've convinced ourselves the outcome may be negative. Notice how we think about uncomfortable conversations: we ruminate over the possible negative outcomes, creating more anxiety, leading to more fear. So that's the reason people don't want to have those conversations. And if you couple that with a lack of tools — not only am I worried about the other person's response, but I don't know how to deliver it, I don't know how to say it in a way that might get a different response — that leads to more anxiety and more fear. So that's the first question. What was your second?

Shaun Southworth: What does avoiding hard conversations actually cost us?

Ken Canion: Everything. Here's the thing. I sat with a family recently, and I told them something they didn't believe. I said, 'Do you know that 93% of your problems could be solved in 30 seconds to two minutes?' Here's why: if I were to tell you what I'm feeling and why I'm feeling it, and then I gave you the opportunity to do the same, without condemnation — do you know those things could be solved? It doesn't mean we have to agree. Most people think we have to agree, but communication is not about agreement. Communication is about having the platform of expression — expressing yourself in a respectful way, so you understand me better. Communication is about understanding; it's not about agreement. So what's it costing us? It's costing us relationships. It's costing us the ability, especially in the workplace, to move up.

It's costing us, many times, our careers, because we don't say anything. We let others pass us by, we let things happen, and then we harbor the resentment. What else is it costing you? It's costing you your physical wellbeing, too many times — because the anxiety leads to stress, stress leads to cortisol, and cortisol leads to weight gain and high blood pressure. There are so many physical elements associated with just being quiet. It's costing people a lot. And I think you all can attest to this — when we came in, there were things you maybe didn't say. Notice how the only time people really feel comfortable saying something is when they get angry. The problem is, anger is a secondary emotion, not a primary one. I always tell people: anger happens because you feel another emotion — hurt, despair, you feel overlooked, isolated — and anger is the result of that.

Anger is the secondary emotion, not the primary one. So when I teach people to communicate, I say: let's tell people the primary emotion I'm feeling, and why I'm feeling it. And all of a sudden, that opens us up for dialogue.

Lydia Taylor: I'd love to piggyback on that, Coach. Why do you think people are so uncomfortable with the primary emotion they're feeling — that they struggle to communicate it, and so they mask it with something secondary, like anger?

Ken Canion: Primarily because we've been taught not to. Think about this for a moment. You're both great attorneys — you've been taught how to practice law. You've been taught how to drive a car. We teach people things we think will help them in the world. But notice: if you go back to your childhood, you were never taught what to do with your emotions — especially little boys. If you're feeling something, what do they say? 'Suck it up. Don't be a chump.' So we've been taught to suppress our emotions. We were never taught what to do with them, because we were taught they were signs of weakness. What do people say? 'Just get over it.' I hate those words — 'just get over it,' 'just let it go.' We use those terms because we don't know how to process it.

People want us to sweep it under the rug — don't talk about it — and they think it'll go away. But the effects don't go away. The effects grow inside of you. I always say every seed planted grows into something; you just don't always know what it's going to grow into. So that's the reason people do it, Lydia — because we've never been taught to. That's why, a lot of times — I grew up in the South, and our parents would say things that, in hindsight, are ridiculous. Let me give you an example. My dad used to say things like 'money doesn't grow on trees.' We've been taught to believe certain things that aren't true, y'all. Belief is a statement or a thought you've accepted as true — it doesn't mean it's true, doesn't mean it's accurate. So that's my thoughts on that.

Lydia Taylor: I think that dynamic is at play a lot in the federal workspace — particularly, I'm thinking about our probationary employees who work for the federal government. What a lot of them express is that, in a work environment where they're very new — learning skills, learning the environment, learning the people they're working with — they very often feel as though they're working for a supervisor who is hostile toward them. So my question is: how does a new employee navigate a situation where they feel like the person responsible for them, in charge of them, with control over their burgeoning career, is difficult? How do they navigate that relationship? What can make it better, and what sometimes quietly makes it worse?

Ken Canion: There are layers to this question, but I want to keep it simple. A lot of people want the answer, but there are two ways to look at it. One: do you want something that works to change it? Or two: do you want to feel good? Notice what I just said. Do you want to change it?

Lydia Taylor: Yeah.

Ken Canion: Why is that important, Lydia? Because a lot of people go into it saying, 'I want to feel good. I'm tired of people treating me wrong. I don't deserve this,' and they begin with their own emotions. So when I go in and teach people — and I did the same thing for you all — I start with: what is your goal? In a perfect world, what would you like to happen? I start there, because if your goal is to get your supervisor to stop being hostile, or if your ultimate goal is to get promoted, whatever it is — what you do next will be the catalyst to get you to that place. Not necessarily to feel good — but getting to that place will ultimately make you feel good. And they say, 'Ah, Coach,' because a lot of people don't want to do what I'm about to say next.

Lydia Taylor: Involves a little work, right?

Ken Canion: I always tell people: you think people are hard? They're not. We are simplistic. There are a few things we all want that resonate with everybody. So the first thing I tell people, when you're in a hostile environment, is: determine where you want to go. That's important. Let's say, hypothetically, I want to get promoted — but I've got to go through this supervisor. The first thing is: seek to understand, then to be understood. That's the 7 Habits — Stephen Covey. First, you've got to understand: why are they acting that way? I'm just observing — because maybe they're overloaded too. A lot of times we look through our own lens, but I always ask: why are they acting that way? Are they overloaded? Do they feel stressed? Are they under pressure? When you sit back and watch people, and try to understand them, then you know how to approach them.

Here's the thing, y'all: seek to understand them. Second thing — you know where you want it to go. Now, here's what happens: when you give a person what they need, they'll give you what you need. In the federal government, there's a lot going on. But remember, people are still people.

Lydia Taylor: True.

Ken Canion: At the end of the day, they have families, they have hurts, they have desires, they have dreams. If I can be seen as a person who is not antagonistic to what you want, you'll give me what I want. So here's what I tell them to do. First things first — if I just got on the job — let me give you the practical steps. I set up a meeting with my supervisor and say, 'I'd like to talk about how I can be a help to the organization, and a help to you.' Notice what I'm doing first. And they say, 'Can we meet?' It might be 10 minutes, might be 15. Now, if the person is hostile, they're not going to trust it at first. Okay, fine — because I have to recondition their mind toward me. All I'm doing, y'all, in psychological terms, is conditioning and programming them.

Then I start with our common goal: 'I want to be the best employee I can be. I want to help you be the best you can be.' Now, some people aren't going to want to do that, but I always tell them, this is what we're going to do. Why? Because human behavior simply says: I want to meet your need first. I want to help you grow — and while growing, I want to grow too. What did I tell you, Lydia? I want to help y'all grow. The first thing I said to Shaun was, 'Shaun, I want to help you grow this to 50, 100 people in your firm.' I told you that. And so when I wanted to help you grow, now we're seen as being on the same side. The law of reciprocity says you want to help me grow.

See, that's why I'm on your podcast right now — it's psychology. So when you meet with the person, you say, 'I want to help you grow.' And then you tell them this — this is the third thing — you ask this question: 'What can I do to help you do your job better, or be better?'

Lydia Taylor: I love that. Can you say that again, Coach? Because I don't think a probationary employee would intuitively be thinking that way about that type of conversation with a supervisor. That's really powerful.

Ken Canion: And that's why it would work — because they're not used to seeing that. Somebody who says, 'I wanted to meet with you. I want to be better. I want to help you be better. I want to do a job that helps us be better.' Then you ask: 'What can I do — daily, weekly, monthly, whatever — to make your job better, to make you better at what you do? What can I do to help us run more effectively, to operate more fluently?' Notice what I'm doing: I'm actually making the supervisor tell me what's wrong.

Think about what I just asked. I didn't say, 'You get on my nerves.' I didn't say, 'You're tripping.' I said, 'What can I do?' Now the supervisor is forced to think. They might just say, 'Just get your stuff in on time.' Okay, I'll do that. And then, once you start doing the thing they said, you remind them that they said it: 'Am I still doing that?' Notice what I'm doing — I'm programming them. 'I've been getting my work in on time, like you wanted me to. Hey, once a month, can we meet for five or 10 minutes, just to make sure I'm still doing what you want me to do?' What am I doing? I'm conditioning the person to the thought that I follow through.

That I'm a leader. That they don't have to worry about me doing what I say I'm going to do. So now, all of a sudden, when they think about who's moving up — because remember, my ultimate goal is to move up — who are they going to think about? All I'm doing is programming the outcome that I want.

Shaun Southworth: So many good insights — and sometimes it's the most basic stuff that people don't even do. When you're communicating with someone, think about them, what they want, and their goals. Just being intentional about communication is something most people don't do. One question: I know you're really good with emotions and hard conversations, and as a mindfulness practitioner, I remember learning that there's an emotion, a thought, and a feeling. Do you have any advice for people who have that pit in their stomach before they go to their supervisor? In an office setting, you don't want to process emotions the way you might in a personal setting. How can they help themselves learn more about that?

Ken Canion: I think most people don't understand that they're feeling something — they can't explain it or define it. So with my clients, I have an emotion sheet, with all different kinds of emotions on it, that helps them explain what they're feeling. I do this because, when I began understanding myself, I'd think, 'Okay, what am I feeling? Am I feeling awkward? Baffled? Bewildered?' And when I started going down the list with them, they'd say, 'Yeah, that's what I'm feeling — concerned, doubtful, fearful.' So the first thing I tell people is this: the first step is deciding that you're going to communicate. The word 'decision' comes from the Latin root decidere, and it means to cut off any other options. 'I'm going to talk to my supervisor.' Once you decide you're going to do it — that's the hardest part, the decision.

Most of us wrestle with it internally: 'I should talk — no, what are they going to say? They might fire me.' So the first thing is to decide that I'm worth it. My job is worth it. What I want is worth having the conversation. That's the first thing. The second thing is this. You asked me about processing emotions — a lot of people don't know how. That's why, when you're having a difficult conversation, write this down, anybody listening: here's the rule of thumb. If you don't know what it is, how to define it, how to articulate it, the first thing you do is ask for permission to talk. You never just blurt it out — 'I'm sick and tired of this.' Instead you say, 'Hey, Shaun, could we talk for five minutes at the end of the day?' Now I'm asking permission for your time.

Whenever you ask permission for somebody's time, and they give it to you, what they're saying is: what you have to say is important. Because I'm giving a piece of my life to you — time is my life. So you ask for permission, because most times people just blurt stuff out — they come into somebody's office, 'I want to tell you this.' No, don't do that. Second thing: once they say sure, you say, 'I wanted to talk to you about this, because I'm feeling this.' You tell them what you've noticed and what you're feeling. 'I notice that when we talk, I don't get all the information,' or 'the voice is raised, and I feel a little concerned, because I'm not able to do everything I need to do.' When you ask for permission, you tell the person what you noticed and how you feel about it — what you notice, and what it does to you.

'I'm not able to complete my job. When this happens, it hinders me from doing X. And I just wanted to clarify, or have a conversation with you about it.' The most powerful thing people can do is express themselves and say how they feel about it. That is so powerful. Think about it, Lydia — you've talked to Shaun before about things. You two have a great relationship, but there are things you don't agree on. When you go to him, you tell Shaun in a respectful way — you don't raise your voice, you tell him what you feel, what you notice, and why you feel that way. Why is it that, in a workplace, we don't talk about how we feel?

Lydia Taylor: Because, to your earlier point, we're taught that's inappropriate — that our feelings don't belong in the workplace. There's a definitive line between professionalism and our emotions.

Ken Canion: If I work with you all, and I tell you I feel disorganized by the way assignments are given to me — should I not say 'disorganized'? That's an emotion. Should I not say I feel confused? The truth is, y'all, we express emotions all day long. There are certain emotions they don't want us to express in the workplace. If I say, 'I'm excited, we're moving' — that's an emotion, and we express it, right? 'I'm encouraged. I'm energized.' We want people to say that. So isn't it a contradiction to say we don't want emotions expressed? Yes, it is. The truth is, what we don't want is emotions that make us feel uncomfortable.

Lydia Taylor: Exactly right.

Ken Canion: So now the question — it's a double standard, but the truth is every emotion should be expressed. It's just how you do it. If you're feeling doubtful, if you're feeling fearful, you should say that — because now Lydia, as my supervisor, knows what I'm feeling and why. Why is that important? Why is the part of telling the person 'why' so important? This is the part people miss. What 'why' does is add context.

Lydia Taylor: Sure.

Ken Canion: 'Why I'm feeling this is because maybe I didn't get the training,' or 'I'm not fully understanding it — that's why I'm feeling a little doubtful.' Now, when I'm talking to my supervisor or any coworker, all of a sudden they speak to the context.

Shaun Southworth: Yeah. In my experience, a lot of people are concerned — we're animals, we do have these emotions, whether we're in the workforce or not. You're saying you can find different ways to express them; we have to do a little dance, or do something a little differently, in the workplace. But what I see a lot from our clients — and rightfully so — is that they're afraid that if they say something to the supervisor, it could be used against them, particularly after they're in litigation. For those people, any thoughts on how they could stay honest and human without handing their boss ammunition?

Ken Canion: That's a very good question. There's a book I read called The 7 Powers of Questions, by Dorothy Leeds — an older book, super powerful. She says that whenever you want to control the conversation, you ask the questions. So if you're afraid of your boss, and afraid it could be held against you, you take the statement you want to say and phrase it in the form of a question. Now the boss has to make a statement, which creates liability for them — and then you just respond to the statement. Let me give you an example. Give me an example of somebody afraid of something, and I'll show you how to do it in real time.

Lydia Taylor: Maybe an employee is afraid of being fired.

Ken Canion: Okay. Why?

Lydia Taylor: Because they sense their boss has been hostile toward them — they've been getting lots of emails telling them they're doing things wrong.

Ken Canion: Okay. So you don't want to go in and say, 'You're hostile toward me.'

Lydia Taylor: Probably not the way to start out.

Ken Canion: So then what could you do? Could you make it a question? You go to your boss and say, 'I've been wanting to talk to you, and I want to make sure we're on the same page. Tell me — are there things I could do to create a better working environment here? What could I do to make our team more efficient?' Now, what am I doing? I'm taking the reason the person says 'I might get fired' and turning it into a question, which leads to a discussion. So I just asked you, Lydia: 'Tell me — I want to make sure I'm on the same page with you. I know you're thinking about firing me because I'm not getting my job done. Tell me: what two things do I need to be doing to make sure we're operating in a synergistic manner?' Now I just asked my supervisor that question. Give me an answer, Lydia.

Lydia Taylor: Well, you can ensure that you're getting me your reports on time.

Ken Canion: Okay — reports on time.

Lydia Taylor: You can ensure that you're showing up to meetings on time, with the materials you need to contribute to the conversation.

Ken Canion: Okay. Thank you so much. As I look back at what I've done — are there any times you've seen that I didn't get reports in on time, or times I didn't show up to meetings on time? Notice what I'm doing: I'm making you tell me.

Lydia Taylor: I love that.

Ken Canion: Just by asking the question — 'Were there times I didn't show up on time?' — and you might say, 'Yeah, you didn't show up last Wednesday.' 'Oh, wow. I didn't know that; I thought I'd shown up on time. Well, you never brought that to my attention. In the future, if I don't show up on time, could you bring it to my attention? I just want to make sure I'm in compliance.'

Lydia Taylor: One of the things we've been talking about in this episode, Coach, is employees making sure they're documenting — asking very specific questions, requiring their supervisor to get specific, moving from being vague to being specific. And very often, they don't have that specific information.

Ken Canion: That's what I'm doing by asking the question.

Lydia Taylor: Right.

Ken Canion: But notice — I didn't do it by making a statement. Here's the thing: when you ask the question — and anybody listening to this, this doesn't take a PhD to do — anything you want to know that you're not sure about, you put the onus on them by simply asking: 'What can I do to be better? Are there areas where I'm not living up to the standard you want to create for the department?' You ask the question. The person who asks the question controls the conversation. They control the direction — and now that gives you all the ammunition you need to do what it is you need to do.

Lydia Taylor: That's awesome.

Shaun Southworth: I wanted to talk a little about how you helped us as communicators — and also about a situation that just happened with Lydia. We brought everybody in the firm together in Atlanta to do some training, and one of our longstanding employees came up and said, 'Lydia, you're so good at communicating things' — which was amazing. He had a lot of specifics about translating complex messages clearly. Lydia, I'm going to ask you: you've been listening to Coach Ken for a while, and you're really good at communicating, creating this culture, communicating things to people in a way that they receive it. I know we're here to interview Coach Ken, but what are some of your favorite Coach Ken teachings?

Lydia Taylor: Anybody who knows me knows I'm passionate about relationships with people. I believe in being intentional about relationships, and that's something I learned from Coach Ken. It's not something that happens by accident. People assume that because human beings are relational, we come with these built-in skills for building relationships. That's not true — it's a skill that requires building, like anything else. So when it comes to our employees, I take the time to listen to them. I ask them questions. That's something I got from Coach Ken. I look for context. I'll use an employee as an example — I won't name names. An employee came to me and said, 'Listen, I'm going to need this time off. If you need me to get a doctor's note, I will.' And there was a tone behind it that had me concerned. So I had a conversation with the employee and said, 'Where is this coming from — that you feel you need to get a doctor's note? That's not something I've ever required from you before. So where is this feeling coming from?' And what it stemmed from was a feeling of anxiety and overwhelm. We got to that through conversation, and that conversation required some intentionality. So that's probably the biggest principle I've learned from Coach Ken: being truly intentional about the relationships I build, in my personal and my professional life. I learned something, Coach — can I learn something?

Ken Canion: But you've always been super smart. All I had to do was present it.

Lydia Taylor: Oh, you know I love talking to you. I could talk to you for days. You make it so easy to talk to you, and to learn from you. If you had to boil it all down to one habit our listeners could take into Monday morning — on how to become a better communicator at work — what would it be?

Ken Canion: Decide you're going to be better at communicating. Decide. I'll give you a personal story. My wife and I have been married 25 years. In marriage, I simply thought that because you feel a certain way about people — because I loved my wife — it would work. I didn't realize I didn't know how to communicate very well. We were at the brink of going to divorce court, because I grew up in the South, in Atlanta, and we would just talk loud. Everybody talked loud, everybody talked over everybody, and then once you finished yelling, everybody moved on. It wasn't healthy — I didn't know it at the time. My wife was taught that when people yell, she shuts down. So you can imagine, in a marriage: she's shutting down, I'm talking loud, and we're not getting anywhere — we're arguing.

It was a mess. I decided I was going to be a better communicator. The first step was admitting to myself that I wasn't very good at it. A lot of us think that because we say it, we're good at communicating. That's not true — because you say it doesn't make you an effective communicator. During that time, I had to decide. That's why I said I decided. Then I got a coach to help me, because nobody taught me, and I got better over the years. I realized that was the catalyst for me deciding I wanted to help people with communication — because I realized what it did for me. The first thing is deciding. Decide, 'I'm going to be better. I want to get better.' You don't know everything — whether you pick up a book on it, or go to somebody who knows, like Lydia, who can teach you.

You don't have to be an expert like me. Just being better at saying how you feel will change everything about your workplace experience.

Lydia Taylor: Yeah. And you know what, Coach — honestly, even if you think you're a great communicator, and you may very well be, it's something we all can continue to aspire to be better at: getting to know who your audience is, who you're speaking to, and how to speak to them in their language, so communication is effective.

Ken Canion: Totally agree.

Lydia Taylor: Thank you so much for coming to spend time with us today. Thank you for all you've done for Southworth PC, to help us grow into better communicators. If our listeners want to find you, where can they follow you?

Ken Canion: They can find me on social media at Coach Ken Canion, or you can go to coachkencanion.com, which will tell you a little more about me. And if you're interested in talking about your situation, you can reach out, and maybe we can help you through that.

Lydia Taylor: Awesome. Thank you so much.

Shaun Southworth: Yes, thank you.

Ken Canion: Appreciate y'all.

Lydia Taylor: So this is the segment of the show where you get to ask the questions — this is Ask Shaun and Lydia. Again, if you have questions you'd like us to answer, please send them to [email protected], or send them to our DMs or comments on any of our social platforms. No questions are off limits here — the only bad question is the one that never gets asked. So if you have a question about an employment issue as a federal employee, we'd love to hear it. I'm sure there are others out there with the same question, so we'd love to answer it here on this platform. Let's get started. I'll ask the first question that was sent to us.

'I'm 10 months into a one-year probation at the VA. My supervisor has been great, but we just got a new acting director, and now everybody's on edge. I haven't done anything wrong — my last review was successful. Do I just keep my head down and hope this blows over with the new acting director?'

Shaun Southworth: This is a great question. Hearing this — someone a few months away from finishing their probation, whose supervisor has been great but maybe isn't always the person in charge, and now an acting director has people on edge — a lot of people in the probationary period probably feel this. They're in a nervous stage. They want to do whatever's right. But when they ask, 'Do I keep my head down and hope this blows over?' — absolutely not. You need to be informed about what could happen. One, I'd re-watch this entire podcast; our conversation with Coach Ken was great, and we've been addressing all of this. There are no easy answers, but keeping your head down is a common mistake we see. And that IRS number from earlier, Lydia, proves why: 99.5% of the people who were let go were fully successful, and they still did something. I don't think they're going to do something mass like that again — but quiet competence isn't protection.

So start the brag file, like you said. Know your last review. Keep doing great work, and try to make it more visible. It varies case by case, but you want to find ways to prove and show your competence and your desire for the position. That'll vary based on personalities, but we're no longer in a place where you can just sit back and hope to make it. You need to be a little more proactive about your situation.

Lydia Taylor: I absolutely agree. The climate has changed, and silence can be interpreted as acquiescence or acceptance. So you definitely want to be speaking up and advocating for yourself at every possible opportunity.

Shaun Southworth: Sounds right. So here's another question we got. This person says: 'Lydia, my supervisor never puts anything in writing. She pulls me aside and says I need to step it up, or that people have concerns — but when I ask what it means, she gets vague. I feel like something's being built against me, and I can't see it. What should I do?'

Lydia Taylor: So the first thing you should do is absolutely trust that instinct. If you feel like something is being built against you, you're probably right. Err on the side of believing that instinct. Often, vagueness is purposefully used when something can't be specifically articulated. So the right thing to do is: you create the writing. When your supervisor comes to you and gives you something vague — 'I don't know that this is a great fit,' 'your attitude should improve' — you start the communication in writing. Send an email after that conversation, and ask specific questions. Ask your supervisor what you can do to improve. Ask them to cite specific instances of the vague description they're giving you. Either you'll get usable feedback, or you'll get nothing — which is the record itself. So my suggestion is: trust that instinct, and start creating that written record by having those timestamped email conversations with your supervisor, to try to get more specific answers from them.

Shaun Southworth: I totally agree. And I think people are naturally — and rightfully — afraid to do that: 'How do I do this?' Owning that fear and concern is right. And what Coach Ken said —

Lydia Taylor: You're nervous. You're already anxious.

Shaun Southworth: You ask them questions, and plan to come in ways that aren't confrontational, that aren't likely to make them defensive — but that try to create the record. You can plan this to show you're genuinely trying to do what should be done. It might be difficult, but that's why more planning, thinking about it, and learning about it is better.

Lydia Taylor: Sure. It's very difficult to defend an adverse action against an employee who has asked, multiple times, 'How can I improve? What can I do better? What are the specific instances?' — and gets literally no feedback. So take the anxiety you're feeling, and channel it into making sure you're creating a sound record.

Shaun Southworth: Perfect. We've got one final question here.

Lydia Taylor: Yep, one more. 'Shaun, my position just got moved to Schedule Policy/Career. Nobody really explained what that means for me. Am I about to get fired? And is there anything I should be doing right now?'

Shaun Southworth: Great questions. We answer this on YouTube — we put together a whole hour on Schedule Policy/Career, so you can go check out that video. A lot of people don't know what's happening with this, but it's part of a targeted pattern right now, where they're putting high-level people at risk to pressure them — some people go even further and say it's part of corruption, or a way to get their will done. People aren't losing all of their rights, but a lot of them. And people who've been there for many years now probably feel like they're probationary again. That's right — but not really, because you've built all these relationships. So there might be some pressures here or there to think about, but following all these best practices is good. I do want to mention — it's not really the question, but this just broke yesterday: OPM and the MSPB have a new proposed regulation out to get rid of the Douglas factors.

They've been around for 45 years, and they go to penalties. You don't have to know all the ins and outs of what's moving around right now in the federal sector — just know you probably need to be intentional about tightening your documentation, getting your performance plan, and keeping your records. You need to be intentional about improving your communication, and being mindful of it — that preparation will help. People in Schedule Policy/Career will still have Title VII EEO rights, but there's a huge case where maybe they're going to take those away from some people, and say the president can override other statutes in certain circumstances — and that's being debated at the Federal Circuit. So there's going to be a lot of uncertainty in this time. But you still have a lot of rights. You still need to tighten your documentation, and I still think you need to be mindful about communication — realize there are other things besides the law you should be thinking about, in terms of managing your relationships with your boss and your agency.

Lydia Taylor: Great advice. Again, please send your questions to us at [email protected]. We'd love to answer them for you.

Shaun Southworth: Thank you, Lydia. I think we've made it through our second episode, which is awesome. We've already got some other people scheduled.

Lydia Taylor: I've got our next special guest.

Shaun Southworth: Yes — and congratulations. There was one person who guessed Ken's identity, so good job to that person. Thank you, everybody, for following us. If you want us to cover anything, we love feedback here — feel free to email us at [email protected]. And that does it for this episode of Civil Rights for Civil Servants. So this week, we told you: build the things a file can't capture — like the way you communicate, the relationships you protect, and the record you create, one ordinary email at a time.

Lydia Taylor: We talked a little today about the two Supreme Court decisions that came down on Monday. Underneath all of it is the quiet truth that protections are not as strong as they used to be. So creating that record for yourself is going to matter all the more as we continue to move forward through this interesting period in history for federal employees.

Shaun Southworth: And before we let you go — thank you for your time. If the show has helped you, please leave a five-star review wherever you listen, share it with a coworker, and go to fedlegalhelp.com/podcast and subscribe, so the next episode comes to you automatically. And if you don't know, our firm produces a free daily newsletter for federal employees — breaking news, mindfulness tips, and legal tips. Around 4,000 feds get it every day. If you're interested, go to fedlegalhelp.com/newsletter.

Lydia Taylor: Awesome. That's it for us. We'll see you at our next episode. Thank you for spending a little piece of your day with us.

Shaun Southworth: Yes. Take care, everyone.

Lydia Taylor: Bye.

Civil Rights for Civil Servants is a production of Southworth PC.

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