We're diving into a super important topic today: unlocking hidden talent in the workforce. Our guest, Dr. David DeLong, has spent over thirty years helping leaders address the challenges posed by an aging workforce, and he offers some fresh insights on how businesses can tap into marginalized talent pools—such as refugees, formerly incarcerated individuals, and people with disabilities. His latest book, "Hidden Talent: How to Employ Refugees, the Formerly Incarcerated, and People With Disabilities," is a treasure trove filled with practical strategies and real-world stories that demonstrate how embracing diversity can not only strengthen teams but also enhance overall business success. We've got some fantastic stories lined up that highlight the incredible potential these individuals bring to the table, and trust me, you won't want to miss this discussion! So grab your favorite beverage, kick back, and let’s explore how we can build more inclusive workplaces together!

Stepping into the world of hidden talents offers a refreshing perspective on the often-overlooked potential within marginalized communities. Our guest, Dr. David DeLong, is a beacon of knowledge with over thirty years of experience navigating the complexities of workforce dynamics, particularly as they relate to the aging workforce. In his latest work, 'Hidden Talent: How to Employ Refugees, the Formerly Incarcerated, and People With Disabilities', David shines a light on the pressing need for businesses to tap into these underutilized talent pools. This conversation delves deep into why inclusivity isn't just a nice-to-have but a necessity for companies striving to stay competitive in today's rapidly changing job market.

David shares fascinating insights drawn from four years of research, illustrating how accommodating diverse backgrounds can lead to a richer workplace culture and improved productivity. With stories that tug at the heartstrings, like those of individuals overcoming immense odds to find employment, he challenges conventional hiring practices that often screen out candidates based on biases or outdated perceptions. We laugh, we learn, and we challenge ourselves to reimagine what talent looks like—hint: it’s often hidden in plain sight!

Join us on this journey as we unpack not only the strategies businesses can adopt to embrace diversity but also the profound impact such inclusivity can have on society at large. Spoiler alert: it’s a win-win situation. So, grab a seat and get ready to rethink how we approach hiring and employment in an era where every voice counts, and every story matters.

Takeaways:

• In this episode, we dive into how companies can tap into marginalized talent pools, including refugees and formerly incarcerated individuals, to enhance workforce diversity.
• David shares insights from his extensive research, emphasizing the importance of recognizing hidden talent that exists in plain sight in our communities.
• We discuss the misconceptions employers have about hiring individuals with criminal records and how these biases can be overcome by understanding their capabilities.
• The conversation highlights the transformative impact that inclusive hiring practices can have on company culture and operational success.
• David's personal experiences shape his advocacy for hiring individuals with disabilities, revealing how minor accommodations can yield significant productivity gains.
• Listeners are encouraged to seek partnerships with local organizations that support marginalized groups, fostering a collaborative approach to workforce development.

Links referenced in this episode:

• readhiddentalent.com
• smartworkforcestrategies.com

Welcome to Becoming Bridge Builders, where we explore the stories shaping our world and the voices driving change. Our guest today is someone who has spent more than three decades helping leaders navigate the challenges of a challenging aging workforce.

Dr. David DeLong is a researcher, author and speaker whose work has influenced organizations from MIT to Harvard and beyond.

In his latest book, Hidden Talent how how to Employ Refugees, the Formerly Incarcerated, and People With Disabilities, David turns his focus to one of the most pressing issues in today's labor market. How businesses can tap into marginalized talent pools and build stronger, more inclusive teams.

Drawing on four years of in depth research, David brings practical insights and real world strategies to the table. Lessons that can help any organization rethink how it recruits, retains and empowers overlooked talent.

Stay with us as we dive into the stories behind hidden talent and learn how unlocking potential and unexpected places can transform the future of work. We welcome David to the podcast.

It's great to be with you, Pastor Keith.

Pleasure to be with you too, Dave. I'm looking forward to this conversation. This is one of the topics that I, in my own experience in the church, have tried to work with.

We had a individual who was hiring incarcerated people and had a whole business model to get those people back into the workforce because that job has a way to impact and really influence and change the trajectory of someone's life, especially those people coming out. So I'm looking forward to this conversation.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

So let's start with my favorite question. What's the best piece of advice you ever received?

My mother.

It actually came from my mother who taught me to, and through her own role modeling, to always be prepared for change in life and to be able to cope with and manage change.

It's ironic that this has ended up being my field of study around change management, but my mother was someone who had to get divorced when she was about 40 years old and she had to go to work to put her kids through school and college and raise the family. And she got married again at age 78, very late in life. And she, she just modeled continual change and evolution through her, through her life.

She was an alcoholic and she had to stop drinking and join AA for 40 years without a slip. You know, just amazing. And she just was such a role model for me and just taught me how important.

Coping with and managing changes throughout your life.

Well, it's funny how sometimes the advice becomes the, the life, the blueprint for our lives, right?

Yes, absolutely.

I'm curious as you think about your journey and we seem to be about the same age I'm curious. Who are some people in your life who served as mentors or maybe inspiration on your journey?

You know, that's an interesting question, Keith, because I had.

One of the sadnesses in my life is I never had sort of a traditional mentor, someone who seemed to take you under their wing and be the great role model. I never had one of those. But what I did have is a lot of people in my life who, at various points, whether it's family, friends, or professors or.

Or bosses early in my work career, who were very helpful and who I knew cared about me as a person and cared about my success. And they had advice and they had. They just modeled behavior, some of which I wanted to. To replicate, but some of which I didn't.

You know, that didn't. Wasn't perfect. But. So I'm always. I unconsciously probably was always looking for people to learn from. That's the.

I guess the message I take away when I think about mentoring is who can I learn from in my career, even if I don't buy the whole package that they're. That they're proposing? You know, one. One piece of advice I got that I learned long ago was strong people have strong weaknesses.

And that never surprises me.

When somebody who's brilliant in one part of their life turns out, you find out they have some real weaknesses and some, you know, some areas that they really struggle with, and they may.

May be interpersonal, it may be hard to get on with them or something, but they are brilliant in some other way, and we can learn from that, but we can also forgive them. We can always have some grace for accepting some of the.

The weaknesses that they demonstrate, even though they can add a lot of value in our lives in other ways.

It's funny you mentioned that, because I've also noticed that even the things that you have as a strength can be a struggle for you. For me, I learned to be much better at public speaking.

But the anxiety before each talk, each sermon, my wife says we joke about this is like, don't be around him on Saturday night before church on Sunday, because he's just not pleasant to be around. But no one would know on Sunday morning that I'm dealing with nerves the entire. Until I get in the pulpit and start the presentation.

Wherever I'm doing up until that point, the nerves are just, like, eating me alive.

Absolutely true. Absolutely true. And you're speaking to another speaker, so who's been through this? And it's. Yeah, it never goes away.

But there's a saying, you know, if you weren't nervous as a speaker would be. You didn't care.

Right.

You know, the nerves is a sign that you really care about impacting your audience and communicating a message that will add value.

Right.

So I totally understand that.

Yes, exactly. So, Doug, I'm curious. It's fun. I'm sorry, David.

No problem.

You spent 30 years researching workforce trends. What inspired you to focus your latest work on marginalized talent pools like refugees, formerly incarcerated people, and people with disabilities?

Two things really, Keith. One is I've been speaking to executive audiences for over 20 years about solutions for critical skill shortages. I wrote several books before this.

One on one was called Lost Knowledge Confronting the Threat of an Aging Workforce. And then another one's called High Impact Talent Management.

And these books looked at the problems, the changing demographics of the workforce, the fact that we have retiring baby boomers, we have fewer young people coming into the workforce, and so on. We have a number of factors. Fewer men of working age actually participating in the workforce, age 18 to 54.

That's a trend that's been going on for 20 years. We didn't understand it, but I've been speaking to executives. Okay, what do you do about this? And I continually heard from them. I just can't.

From the executives. I just can't find people who will show up and pass a drug test and, you know, be there for work.

And I've been listening to this for more than 20 years, and I've been proposing some solutions.

My wife, about eight years ago, went to work for an organization, an agency here in Massachusetts that works with young adults coming out of prison and gangs.

And we saw firsthand the challenges these young people faced in starting a career when they already, at age 20 or 22, had a criminal record and had spent time in prison.

And we developed some great empathy because my wife was around these people, these young adults all the time, and loved them and just found them fantastic folks. But we saw the challenges they faced. And I'm really a storyteller. That's the way I view myself as.

I've been a writer and a speaker through much of my career. And I love telling stories as a way to engage people with practical solutions.

So I thought there must be companies that have cracked the code of trying to employ these marginalized workers, in this case, formerly incarcerated, also people with disabilities and refugees or immigrants. People were foreign born workers. And these are three groups that face major explicit barriers to employment.

And I wanted to tell stories that would engage managers. And I'm aware this workforce field is Actually also, it can be mind numbing to a busy manager, a busy, A person who's got a busy job.

They just don't want to hear about all the technicalities of it.

So I said, how can I write a book that will keep people engaged with stories and impart lessons that will be very practical in how can we get started? How can we tap these talent pools? Because the other major talent pool, traditional talent pools, are continuing to shrink.

I love that. As you think about the title of your book. I just finished a book to myself and I think I agonized more so over the title than anything else.

Tell us what the phrase hidden talent means to you and why is it so important, especially in today's labor force?

Sure, sure.

Well, again, executives, managers, hiring managers are always looking for good people, by good people, people willing to learn, who can learn, who may bring some skills to the job and who will have a work ethic, will show up, are committed to being there. The notion of hidden talent was these, these talent resources exist in plain sight. You know, they're there, but we don't see them.

We don't think about, you know, I need this CNC machinist or I need this entry level operator or a, or an entry level research technician up, you know, somebody to work in a lab or somebody to work in retail. And I don't even think about, I don't even think about what if somebody who has a. Was formerly incarcerated but has turned their life around.

They could be a potential employee. Instead, I've got HR systems that screen them out.

They don't even get an interview because of the applicant tracking systems, the technology we have now that reads resumes and will screen people out before they even get a chance. Or someone with level one autism who's very high functioning but is very, would be very quirky in an interview, in a traditional interview.

And all these folks are, again, they're, they're there, they're in plain sight, but we don't know where to look for them or how to look for them or how to hire them and what slight accommodations they need in order to be successful.

So this book took four years of research. I'm curious. I know my own research was kind of fascinating for me. I dug into it for a while and I need to figure out, how do I communicate?

All I've learned. What was the most surprising thing you discovered in your research that went into your book?

A number of things.

First of all, how incredibly productive and effective this kind of marginalized talent can be when you Find them, make some minor accommodations and bring them into your company. How hiring these folks can truly change your culture, your business, the way you view the world.

We all carry around these unconscious biases that we have about folks who, well, could that person with autism really work with me or could that person with limited English skills really add value in our business? Can we accommodate their need for translation and just the stories of these people? You know, a quick story.

This company, MDI Minnesota Diversified Industries in Minneapolis, hires as about half its workforce is people with disabilities. And the operations manager there one day said, we had a snowstorm recently and I had employees calling up saying, gee.

I had an employee call up say, gee, boss, I've got a four wheel drive, but I don't think I can make it through this 2 inches of snow and this snowstorm.

Meanwhile, I knew that I had workers who have disabilities who were going to take two buses and take, go through a two hour commute to get to work and they were going to show up. You know, that's, that's, you know, one of the examples of the kind of inspiration you hear of the obstacles people have overcome or traumatic past.

You know, a couple of women who grew up in refugee camps for 10 years with very limited food and are now working as training managers in US companies having mastered enough English and you know, just have this unbelievable commitment and drive to, to succeed and to create a better life for their families.

I'm curious, your, your book is about. You say you love to tell stories and I'm curious what story in your book was one of the one, one of the ones that most compelling for you?

There, there are so, so many because I have a dozen.

The book has, while the book is built on 10 case studies of businesses that have committed to hiring from these talent pools and what they've learned from the process, that's the most important, what they've learned from the process of hiring. But it also has a dozen profiles of individuals who've overcome great obstacles to, to find sustainable employment.

And you know, one example would be Musso.

This woman who came from Myanmar, which used to be Burma, who was family was, became refugees because they were being persecuted by the government in their country. And this young girl, when she was a young girl, you know, fled with her mother and her other children to a refugee camp in a neighboring country.

And she spent 10 years in a refugee camp with barely enough food to get by. And finally at about age 18, she got permission to, to move to the U.S. this is very normal immigration practices. And she came with her husband.

She had a young husband, they had a child, and they came and they moved to Akron, Ohio.

And a friend, somebody from her home country, got her a job working in a motel cleaning rooms for $6 an hour, 675, which is a totally unsustainable wage even for her.

So, so here's a young woman, she finally finds an opportunity in this bakery, Main Street Gourmet, and they hire her as their first foreign born employee and they just dive in. And she has very little English, but she just is so determined to succeed and to learn English.

And she's speaking when she's on the job, when she says thank you. Initially people thought she was using the F word because the accent was so bad.

And they had to gently correct her and say, no, no, that's not the way you say thank you.

And so she's spent her career learning, mastering English and she's become the training manager in this company which now has 35% of its employees are foreign born. And she was, she was the first one. And she now trains the new, new employees coming in. But just seeing she, she and her husband had bought a house.

Just the stories, the perseverance is just so powerful and so, so impressive.

As I looked at the list of employees you're trying to kind of promote as the hidden talent, each of those come with misconceptions.

So I'm just kind of curious, what are some of the biggest misconceptions employers had to overcome when they're dealing with, say, people who were incarcerated before and then maybe talk about, you know, the unique challenges that those who were refugees dealt with as well.

Sure.

Most of us have this real unconscious bias about I'm gonna work, you're gonna ask me to work next to someone with a criminal past who might have had, you know, gone to prison for a drug addiction, for crimes committed when they were addicted to drugs only to support their crime, or they might have a 10 year old weapons charge from when they were 19 years old and they spent a few years in prison. And you're going to assume that these people, I can't work with these people, that I'm scared of the risk.

Well, the research shows the chances of them committing another crime are incredibly low once they have particularly the more time that's elapsed from their, from their, from their crime, their offense to, to today. So time is a, time is a huge fact, is timing is a huge factor. But that sense of fear, fear of the unknown is really what it is.

Because in each of these cases, I found that we found personally in our family, the more time we spent with these folks, they're just folks, you know, they have often gone through incredible trauma.

Right.

You know, at youth, you know, with dysfunctional families, lack of food, you know, lack of resources, lack of role modeling of, of parents who had jobs or were working. So there are a lot of variables.

So let's talk about refugees. That's a hot topic. No matter what side of the coin you, you fall on. What are some of the biggest misconceptions about hiring refugees?

First of all, finding them, you know, finding, finding refugees who are work ready, who have enough support to, to be work ready. Figuring out what jobs they can do for you. I mean it's important.

Obviously you're not going to put a refugee or a, again we use these terms, refugee, immigrant, Asylee, these are, these are technical terms that have to do with one's immigration status.

And I'm assuming, by the way, in my book I only write about people who are legally authorized to work in the US I'm not talking about undocumented workers. Sure. That that is just too complicated an issue and there's all kinds of legal issues around that.

So I'm talking about people who came here, who followed the rules and who came here and are looking for work. One is figuring out what jobs they can do, where we can use them, where there won't need extensive English.

Again, for example, you don't put them in a customer facing role. They might be working in this, in a warehouse or in some back office position or in a factory. It's underestimating what support they'll need.

It's not realizing how dedicated they can be. They will be if they come with just enough prep, enough background and support.

One of the things that we have to understand is when you hire people from other cultures, other countries, they come with a set of expectations. I'll give you a simple example. In Nepal, this one bakery I studied commercial bakery, I studied, hired, ended up hiring a bunch of Nepalese.

Well, they, there are very strict rules in this bakery about, about mixing different products because of allergies. Like you can't have nuts, can't have nuts in, anywhere near, you know, in a, in a certain part of the, the machinery used to produce the products.

Because of allergies. Well, in Nepal there are no allergies. They don't have these kinds of peanut allergies. That's not in their culture.

So these folks had to be educated about that. So it's understanding what sort of cultural nuances or accommodations we have to do.

But again, Keith, the real answer here is just trying and diving in and just taking a chance. It's sort of, again, the fear of the unknown. Why do we resist or what do we have to overcome in hiring refugees or immigrants? Is, is not.

Is because we don't know. We don't know the benefits they can bring to the business.

I love that.

I've, I've talked to a lot of people who work in business and entrepreneurs and those likes, and they always tell me that the strongest organizations are the ones that are inclusive and have a diverse workforce. Can you kind of talk about how do you convince people? Because you've, you've taught organizational change at Babson College.

And how is inclusivity really making the workforce stronger and the company stronger?

We've been having fewer babies here in the United States. So we have fewer young people graduating from high school now and college going into the workforce.

And then I mentioned the problem of men, just fewer working age men in the workforce today. So for a variety of reasons. So the workforce is shrinking and we need to recognize that.

So being inclusive gives us a chance, a better chance of having the staffing we need. One of the benefits that the companies I studied in my book or wrote about in my book was they said we couldn't staff the second shift.

We couldn't find people.

But by opening themselves up to hiring refugees or immigrants, they suddenly had a new talent pool they could bring in for that, that evening shift, late afternoon, evening shift that they couldn't. They, they couldn't find. So that's one, two is sort of just opening yourself up and feeling better.

This company, Classic Wire, a medical products manufacturer in California, hires seven people at once with autism, with high level autism, who have been trained as CNC machinists. And these were wonderful stories. And they just, this was a huge transition. The leadership there would tell you we didn't know anything about autism.

We didn't know what it was or what the constraints were. And they've now become core in our culture and they've made us a better place, a more. They're really good, they're really good workers.

They're a little quirky sometimes, but we manage that and we have coaching for it and gosh it's just made us, we just feel better about ourselves. And this, by the way, let me stress, this isn't about hope. You can tell I have no passion for this.

No, you're kind of, you're kind of hiding it.

They, they just, they're just amazing and they just bring so much to the business. It's just, just incredible.

If you were in a small, small or advising a small or mid sized business who wanted to start this journey and they feel overwhelmed just by the possibility, give us kind of a practical first step you'd recommend for them.

Sure. First of all, figure out what jobs are you have that are really hard to fill. You probably know this or where you have constant turnover.

You know, get, get a, get a handle on, on what those jobs are and then look for local partners.

Look for organizations in your region who work with one of these groups, whether it's formally incarcerated people with disabilities or immigrants, and connect with them and see what they have in terms of folks. Talk to them. Start to develop a relationship with these agencies, these partners so that, so that you can find. I'll give you a quick example.

You know, a painter, local painting company here in Massachusetts, just a employee. People this owner could not find. Can't find people who want to be trained as painters. Then these are people painting high end. How high end?

Residential properties, very fussy work. I mean these people will show up and, and, and, and do the work and who are trainable.

And he went to the local, he finally, in somewhat in desperation, he went to the local shelter which was sheltering folks who had come to this country, this is about a year ago, reasonably soon. And he, and he told the shelter manager, I'm looking for painters. Do you have anybody who I could interview?

He interviewed a couple of, a couple of people. He had used Google Translate on his phone to translate with them.

And, and he ended up hiring two of them and he had them at work within a week after that, after they were there. So sometimes I think local businesses think it's going to be too complicated to get started.

So find a partner, find somebody who's working with these folks and start a conversation, but ask hard questions. I'm very clear about this. You've got to be skeptical. As an employer, I want be super clear.

Not everyone in these pools, I'm not saying every formerly incarcerated person, person with a disability or immigrant is right for you or for the jobs you have. You know, we're looking to find the diamonds in the rough here. The people in those talent pools who can be great employees.

I'm on the side of the employer here. I'm not pretending everybody coming out of prison is going to be a fabulous employee. In fact, I'm very clear. It's a spectrum.

And there's a bunch that are going to be great. There's some that are going to need a little extra help and coaching. We're going to be really good if you're a little patient.

But there's a group down the other end who you just don't want to touch. So, you know, who just aren't ready.

They haven't grown enough and decided to change their life direction so that it's, it's tricky, but it's always a spectrum. And I'm trying to help employers find the ones, the employees, the potential employees who can be great. And there are lots of them out there.

That's great.

If you're advising an HR department who are trying to support the workers that are coming on board, what are some best practices you can help HR to go, okay, here's how you support these new workers you're trying to bring into the company.

Well, I'd say first is coaching. You have to recognize that the reason, you know, Keith, if this was easy, everybody be doing it right, Every employer would be doing it.

We wouldn't be having this conversation. But I am very clear. Hiring people who have to overcome barriers to employment is not simple. It takes some extra work.

And so you, you need to, you need to up up your coaching game. And that may mean getting coaches from outside who work for these agencies, who work with these folks all the time. It may be bringing them in.

I see that particularly with folks with disabilities. They're just some fabulous coaches out there. But you need a good coach and someone who knows how to push and knows how to back off.

And that's one of the things that employers learn and people in HR learn is how much we can push.

Folks at Classic Wire, when they first brought in these CNC machinists who had level one autism, the managers were, they said, admitted to me we treated them as handicapped or disabled because we didn't know what to do. We didn't know how much we could push them. And their coach said, hey, hold them accountable. They got to show up. They're adults.

There are things you have to bend on a little bit. But by and large, you don't let them just do what they want. You have rules and processes and they're expected to follow them.

So it'd be that coaching piece would one one thing and then One other would be, don't underestimate, don't miscommunicate longer on boarding. It might take a little longer in all three of these groups to get them on board and get them productive, but don't confuse that with productivity.

And because taking a little bit of time on board to get someone on board who will then stay and won't be leaving in three to six months, like a lot of your other new hires, is worth a lot of money. So sometimes it takes a little longer to onboard.

I love it. I love to ask my guest this question too, David. What you want your legacy to be.

I want to be helpful. I want to make a difference. I want to help businesses and societies, cultures address hard problems and solve hard problems.

And I recognize a lot of problems are really difficult, and that's why I engage with this one. You know, it isn't like you're saying, oh, this is simple. We'll just do this, this, and this.

No, there's tension and challenges, and I want to be helpful in. In sharing lessons about that that will help people lead more fulfilling, productive, loving lives. And ultimately, you know, as we get older, we.

We all seem to say, I want to be remembered as kind. You know, I really do. I want to be kind. I want to be known as gently pushing people towards solutions to challenging problems or confronting them.

But I want to be. Be kind.

That's great. So in season six of the podcast, we're doing something new. We have a surprise question.

So pick a number between one and three for your surprise question.

One. All right.

A lot of people pick one. I noticed that about people.

Oh, they do.

They do.

I was thinking, I'll be different and I'll pick one because nobody picks one.

So here's your question. Would you rather be the best player on a horrible team or. Or the worst player on a great team?

I'd rather be the worst player on a great team because I can learn from others I don't need. It's not about my ego being the best. No, I'd want to be. That's a great question. I'd want to be learning from others, and I'd want my team to succeed.

And I love working with great people. That's very rewarding. And it's, in fact, one of the keys to life, I think, is our relationships, of course, and quality relationships we have.

Yeah, that's one of my favorite questions. I like that one. So where can people find your book and learn more about the work that you're doing?

The book is Hidden Talent how to employ refugees, the formerly incarcerated, and people with disabilities. It's available from your local favorite online bookseller or you can order it from a bookstore.

You can read the introductory chapter by going to my book's website, which is readre a d hiddentalent.com all one word, read r e a d hidden talent.com you can go there, you can download the introduction so you get a sense of the framing of the book. And, and again, I'm very. This is all about, I, I can't emphasize this enough. This is not charity. We're not doing this just to be nice.

We're doing this because it makes good business sense. It's, it's economically, it's a win for the business, it's a win for the individuals, and it's ultimately a win for society and communities.

So there are a lot of advantages here, but it's not simple. So you can again read hidden talent.com or just google the the title of the book or you can also go on my website and you can email me.

You can reach me there. I have a another website called smartworkforcestrategies.com which is even more information than you'd ever want about my work.

So what's next for you? What's up? What's upcoming projects are you working on?

Well, Keith, I'm trying to build bridges.

There you go.

I'm trying to build bridges.

Right now I'm working on a project here in Massachusetts trying to build bridges between state probation department and employers that as I'm continue to do research in this area, I'm an inveterate researcher. So literally every week I'm having interviews with people in the field who are trying to say, what are you seeing? What's happening.

Of course, since the book was published in January, I have, you know, the immigration issue was blown up. Of course that's become much more complicated. That would be a whole other podcast, but, you know, it's, it's heartbreaking to see, but it's.

And complicated, very complicated.

But I'm trying to build bridges between those agencies or those organizations working with these different talent pools supporting them and employers helping. How do we bring those two groups together to help educate employers about the potential here?

And I'm continually looking for opportunities to do that to help employers get more confident and comfortable in tapping into these talent pools over time.

Because the talent, even if right now, when we're recording this, we're having a little dip in terms of employment and unemployment numbers, these challenges are going to come back for employers. The shortage of workers is going to be with us for the next two decades. The demographics are immutable so we have to look for solutions there.

Well, David, thanks so much for coming on and sharing your passion and I can tell your passion for this topic and for the employers and employees who are out there and the talent sometimes overlooking And I just really thank you for helping us to look beyond the surface and look deeper at what really is right in front of our face sometime in terms of the people that could really impact our corporations and our company. So thank you for the work that you did. And people go out and get hidden talent.

Leave a review for David on the website because that's how people find the book even more. So we really hope you go do and check it out. So so thanks again.

Thank you Keith. It was my pleasure. And thanks for the great work you do in bringing people together to think about building bridges.

It's really an honor to be to spend time with you and to share my ideas. I hope it was helpful.

It was helpful. Thank you so much David.

Thank you.