Shownotes
Can you coach anyone on anything?
It’s a question that sounds simple but exposes some of the deepest tensions in the coaching profession.
In this episode of The Coaching Clinic, John and Angie unpack what really sits behind this debate. Not just imposter syndrome, but credibility, boundaries, ethics, and the uncomfortable moments coaches don’t talk about openly.
They explore:
- The difference between pure coaching and consulting or mentoring
- Why having tools matters more than having the “right” background
- What happens when sessions drift into territory coaches are not trained for
- How credibility crises show up when clients are more senior, successful, or powerful
- Why relatability, rapport and interest matter more than matching life experience
- When it is right to say yes, and when it is essential to say no
Through real client examples, including NASA executives, world-famous speakers, and moments where sessions crossed into unsafe territory, this conversation brings clarity to a question many coaches silently wrestle with.
If you are a coach questioning your authority, your boundaries, or whether you are “qualified enough”, this episode offers a grounded, grown-up perspective on what coaching really requires and where its limits are.
Chapters
00:00 – The question that stops coaches cold
An innocent client conversation triggers a deeper credibility dilemma.
02:00 – Can you coach anyone on anything?
Why the answer is both yes and no.
04:30 – Coaching vs consulting vs mentoring
Where many coaching relationships quietly shift.
06:45 – Imposter syndrome and credibility crises
Why senior or high-status clients trigger self-doubt.
08:00 – Tools over titles
Why coaching effectiveness is not about shared life experience.
10:30 – Hard boundaries and knowing your lane
Why saying no is sometimes the most ethical move.
13:00 – When sessions go somewhere unsafe
Abuse, trauma, and moments that change the coaching relationship.
17:30 – Relatability, rapport and interest
Why wanting to coach the topic actually matters.
20:30 – Generalist vs specialist coaching
How coaches naturally steer conversations.
23:00 – Training, certification and real standards
What credentials do and don’t guarantee.
26:00 – So… can anyone coach anyone on anything?
The nuanced conclusion most coaches need to hear.
Want to contact the show? You can leave us a voicemail. It's free to do, and we might feature you on our next episode. All you need to do is go to https://speakpipe.com/thecoachingclinicpodcast and leave us a message. You can also find our clips and full episodes on the exclusive Coaching Clinic YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@coachingclinicpodcast
You can send us a video or voice message on LinkedIn:
John's LinkedIn Profile or go to PresentInfluence.com for coaching enquiries with John
Angie's LinkedIn Profile or visit AngieSpeaks.com
2023 Present Influence Productions Coaching Clinic: scale your business, acquire high ticket clients & master coaching skills 82
Transcripts
Hey John.
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John: Angie,
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Angie: I had a very interesting
aha moment this past week.
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John: oh, I love your aha moments.
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What was it?
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Angie: This is an interesting one.
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So it was, I was having a conversation
with a fellow coach and she said something
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to me and it just jarred me like.
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Almost cold water on the face.
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John: What did she say?
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What did she say?
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Angie: Well, it was interesting.
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She was really feeling challenged
by the coaching relationship
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that she was about to embark on.
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It was a new client and she was kind
of, I, I, I don't wanna get into it.
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It wasn't like imposter syndrome
as much as it was turning into.
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I have no knowledge of what
they think they need from me.
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Can I coach them?
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John: Ooh, do.
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Do you think this relates to
something I often chat about
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with fellow coaches of can?
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Can you coach anyone on anything?
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Angie: I think it's right
in that right there.
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Can you coach anyone on anything?
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John: there's a conversation worth having.
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Let's get into it.
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Angie: Yeah.
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I think what jarred me was the fact
that I didn't like, although I was
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asking that question to her and.
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Kind of coaching her.
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Right.
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But the reality after the
conversation was, huh.
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I dunno if there's like a
black and white answer to that.
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John: It is, it is an interesting
question and I think sometimes,
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sometimes it even shows up as an
internal conflict with coaches.
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Angie: Mm-hmm.
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John: it shows up as a
professional conflict with coaches.
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Well, I guess we can sort of get into
that a bit more, but when I first learned
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coaching as a skill, when I did my,
correspondence course in coaching before
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they had all these like places where
you can actually go and even study you.
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I think there's like a, a
college course somewhere or
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several in the UK now teach it.
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before all of that.
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When I, when I learned coaching, I
learned the, the basics of coaching
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and, and I guess it was mostly along
the lines of ontological coaching.
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You asked the questions, you helped
draw out the answers from people,
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and in that sense, you should be
able to coach anyone on anything.
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If you are, if all you're doing is
asking the questions and trying to.
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Pull stuff out of them to
get the answers inside.
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And you, if, if, with the right sort
of questioning and in interrogative
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skills, you should be able to pull,
help, pull those answers out for people.
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without, without.
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Consulting without mentoring.
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so the question often comes up as,
you know, criticism of coaching,
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that coaches often haven't done
the thing that the person going to
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them coaching wants success with.
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And that can end
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up, yeah.
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Angie: Go ahead.
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Because I just like I'm saying, but
you know what, if we were required
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to have, like if I'm coaching a
surgeon or I'm coaching, like I
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have coached so many people from so
many different backgrounds under so
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many different roles, and I wouldn't
even be a coach per se, but, okay.
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Sorry, go ahead.
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I just had to, I was like, yes, and
there are people that believe that,
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John: right.
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It turns into, what you could call
a, a crisis of ethos or a crisis of,
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not necessarily confidence, although
that is related to it, but a crisis
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of credibility, because you think,
do I, do I have the credentials
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to be able to coach this person?
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and, and then it's the thing of,
well, I think a lot of people
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don't really understand coaching
and the reality is no, but.
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let's say this, I get, I get
asked about doing certain types of
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communication coaching, and I have a
hard boundary on relationship coaching
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because I'm not a relationship coach.
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I don't enjoy relationship coaching.
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I don't want to do relationship coaching.
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so I have a hard boundary about that
and I say, no, I'll do this, but
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I won't do relationship coaching.
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and
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Angie: the question though.
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Even if you choose not to,
because you don't have an interest
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in that, could you, right.
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Without being a counselor or a therapist,
could you be a relationship coach?
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John: Yes,
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Angie: Yeah.
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John: a point.
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To a point, and, and so you end up,
you sometimes end up with this thing
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as well, where I've seen this, actually
a friend of mine who wanted to be a
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relationship coach at the time did
not have a successful relationship.
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And it's like, can I be a, can I be
a relationship coach without having
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a successful relationship myself?
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Angie: Sure.
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John: The answer is yes.
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Do do You have to have success
in the thing that you are
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helping or coaching somebody in?
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Not necessarily.
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So I think the answer lies somewhere
in like, is the answer to the question.
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Can you coach anyone in anything?
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We talked about this before, but the
answer is yes, and the answer is no.
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because officially, technically yes,
you can ask the questions, you can
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coach anybody, I think there, there are
certain times in coaching relationships
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where you may need somebody who at least
has an understanding of where you're
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at or what you're looking to achieve.
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You know, if you are looking
to work in the area of sales
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or, um, uh, a competitive area.
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But the thing is, is like in, if it's
pure coaching, the answer is yes,
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you can coach anyone on anything.
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Angie: Yes, and I agree.
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This is really kind of the
answer I came to and it's in, in
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alignment with what you just said.
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When you are purely coaching, there are
definitely tools that you can use as a
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coach to dig and dive and dig and dive.
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I think where it becomes the no is
when there is a level of consulting
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that needs to be done, right.
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If somebody's like, Hey, I'm the CEO
of eight different companies and I
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do have a client right now that is
something like seven or eight that
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are all tethered, can I coach them?
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It is a very long
commitment and it's a very.
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Um, technical, it's like a, it's
almost like the string of Christmas
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lights, trying to keep everything
in order and unravel things.
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So there is a different level of
expertise there, but I'm able to
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do both because of experience.
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If it's not something that's in
your wheelhouse, number one, do
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you want to, that's, I think first
and foremost always the question.
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And I think the second
check in with yourself is.
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Do you have tools?
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Right?
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Because then it doesn't really matter.
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And are you comfortable using them?
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And if you even move forward though,
and you come to a point where you're
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stuck, you are actually stuck with the
client, even if they don't realize it.
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That's something from which
you need to grow as a coach.
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But to your point, right, there has to
be, I think some discernment in between.
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Will this require me to
also be a consultant?
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how far into that do I even wanna
go because I am a coach, right?
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How am I spo what's my role here?
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And asking yourself that.
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But it is a yes and no question.
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It definitely is.
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And it can start with imposter syndrome.
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It.
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You have to work through that and
say, well, how do I coach this person?
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I remember I had a client who
was a high level executive with
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NASA and my initial, I'm not even
gonna, I'm not gonna lie, right.
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Full transparency.
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My first thought, when I found out
that this was going to be a client
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of mine, I was like, what, what
could I, how can I possibly coach
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this high level person from NASA?
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Then it was so funny because I had
to be coached in that moment and
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realize it had nothing to do with me.
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Right.
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Coaching had nothing to do with me,
and I didn't need to be an executive at
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NASA to be able to coach this person.
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And we actually ended up having
a very successful multiple
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rounds of coaching relationship.
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So it really is like understanding
what your role is, I think.
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And.
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Using your tools, using like, I think
it's important as a coach that you
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don't just get on calls with people
and just like have conversations.
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Like you need to be able to have
almost like a, okay, not that we
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should be therapists, but therapists,
psychiatrists, psychologists have
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specific tools to help patients.
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Deal with specific challenges.
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If it's anger, if it's anxiety,
and I'm not talking about pills or
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anything, I'm just saying there's tools.
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So as a coach, there should be tools in
your tool belt that you can utilize to
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give to your clients to help them grow.
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So it was just a really
eye-opening conversation.
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'cause I don't think I thought of it
in the depths that I went to with it.
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John: Yeah.
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Uh, de definitely no have no shade
on generalist style coaching.
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I think it can be very valuable.
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Uh, ontological coaching can
definitely be very valuable.
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I often find when I employ that in my
own coaching sessions, clients will come
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back and say that they got more outta the
sessions from, from that style of coaching
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than from just about anything else.
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However, with the kind
of work that I mostly do.
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There is an expectation that I have
an understanding of the industry, that
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I have a good understanding of how
things work and what needs to be done.
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That there is a level of consulting
and even mentoring that needs to happen
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within the kinds of coaching that I do.
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I had a client, I had a client a while
back who was, was, and still is, uh,
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an internationally well-known, world
famous speaker, and um, and you can.
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Can you imagine the kind of imposter
syndrome that I was getting with that?
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Like, this guy's much more, much
more successful than me as a speaker.
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People know who he is.
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People don't necessarily know who I am.
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Um, what am I, what am
I gonna coach him on?
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How's that gonna be?
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And this, this even is my wheelhouse
than I, he is more successful to
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me, but he wants me to be his coach.
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Um.
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The coaching actually went really well.
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It was very effective.
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It was good.
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But yeah, goodness me, the stuff
that was coming up for me in, in
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the meantime, um, was definitely
questioning myself and my ability, my
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credibility to be able to coach him.
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But that wasn't what was
even important to him.
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Um, it was more important that he had had
a coach that he could trust, who he knew,
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knew, knew enough to be able to help.
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And, uh, um, and.
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Kind of wanted someone to listen, but
also someone to help help him dig into
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stuff and see what he couldn't see.
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Um, and that's what we were
able to do in, in the sessions.
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And probably a bit more besides, but
I do think that, that there's this,
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there is an element to which if you
go to somebody for coaching on, uh,
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back to relationship coaching, right?
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Because I, me not, no, no, no.
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Relationship coaching is like,
don't worry, just tell me to do
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it.
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Angie: Enough relationship coaching
with me in our relationship.
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No, i'm joking.
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John: Can I do it?
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Yeah.
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Has it come up in coaching
calls in other ways?
218
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Yes.
219
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And, and I'm fine with that,
but I don't want to specialize
220
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as a relationship coach.
221
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Um, I wouldn't enjoy it.
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It's not, it's not my area as such.
223
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But for those who is great, is someone
who wants to be a relationship coach,
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gonna do a better job of coaching
someone in relationships than me?
225
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Yes.
226
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Because they want to do it.
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'cause they have a better sense of
the kinds of questions or the kinds
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of issues that come up in that area.
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They have the experience to be
able to sort of get a better
230
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sense of what's going on.
231
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They'll tune into things more
effectively than I would because
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I'm just sort of thinking, can
we talk about something else?
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Uh, whereas they're
thinking, oh, tell me more.
234
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This is really interesting.
235
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Right.
236
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So, so it is definitely important.
237
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And it doesn't mean, again, it
doesn't mean that you can't do that.
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I think this maybe does speak more to the,
uh, why it's so valuable to find the way
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that you coach best, the things you like
coaching people on the most you can bring.
240
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All of your coaches skills and experience
through that because everything will come
241
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up and become relevant at some point with
certain clients, but the majority of the
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work that you do and the things you focus
on are already gonna be predetermined
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by the kind of work focus that you have.
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Angie: You know what's interesting,
and I do believe that is true, but
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there is something that I, again,
I've been reflecting and thinking
246
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about this, that I am very opposed
to the level of information.
247
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Okay, wait.
248
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I'm very opposed to gaining
too much information about a
249
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prospective client ahead of the game.
250
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So if I do, for example, if I'm doing
like corporate coaching, I'm working
251
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for a corporation and I meet with the
leadership of the people or persons that
252
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I'm going coach, I always say, let's meet.
253
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I wanna get an in some insight.
254
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Um, but when they say, and I
always ask like, what's the best,
255
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what is the best outcome that
you would like to see from this?
256
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That's, I want to know that, but I have to
be honest with you, it is not how I guide.
257
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I still will guide my sessions
with that person organically.
258
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Right, without setting an expectation
like, we have to hit this, I just,
259
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it doesn't work if I'm, if I'm going
after like a specific thing, right?
260
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If the client says, Angie, I've
noticed this is my biggest challenge.
261
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I really wanna go, and it may be something
that I've never even worked on before.
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I still have the tools to help them then
kind of hone in on what is necessary, but.
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It's almost like I just, I don't
know why I thought of this.
264
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I've never watched the show a
day, but the Masked Singer they
265
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call, I think that's a show.
266
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But anyway, it's like we don't.
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John: Yeah,
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Angie: Yeah, I, I, it's like I, the
less I know, I almost feel like the
269
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better the outcomes because I am still
human and I don't want to have an,
270
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a positive or a negative expectation
because that's what happened when I
271
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was, and I'm gonna keep using this
example, this client, this NASA client.
272
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It was kind of, you know,
um, I, it didn't matter.
273
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It really didn't matter.
274
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What was most important was
why are you talking to me?
275
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So even my pre.
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Discovery call surveys, and then
my pre-coaching surveys, they're
277
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very short and they appear to be
ambiguous, but that's done with
278
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intention because I don't want the,
the, the Reader's Digest or the Cliffs.
279
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Oh boy.
280
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Am I dating myself?
281
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Geez.
282
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Version of what they
think the issue should be.
283
00:15:24,582 --> 00:15:30,852
I wanna be able to have the ability to go
into sessions with the tools that I use.
284
00:15:30,852 --> 00:15:36,012
And there are things that I do, by the
way, very consistently, no matter whom,
285
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no matter where they've come from.
286
00:15:38,622 --> 00:15:39,972
Like it doesn't matter.
287
00:15:40,422 --> 00:15:43,752
There are certain things about
my sessions in the way, in the
288
00:15:43,752 --> 00:15:46,452
course of working with me that are.
289
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Specific and repe re repetitious.
290
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I do them every single time.
291
00:15:52,682 --> 00:15:59,492
And as a result of that, I am less
inclined to be, uh, affected or,
292
00:15:59,492 --> 00:16:08,552
or at all influenced by the belief,
the need, the what the expectation
293
00:16:08,552 --> 00:16:10,022
is, even though I'm aware of it.
294
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And more and, and able to
ultimately get better results.
295
00:16:15,257 --> 00:16:21,047
But it would, it took time to recognize
that for me, there were specific
296
00:16:21,047 --> 00:16:27,797
tools that needed to be in place in
order for me to get out of my own way.
297
00:16:28,382 --> 00:16:29,372
Can I do this?
298
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Should I be doing this?
299
00:16:31,202 --> 00:16:36,302
And, and that doesn't mean like, have
you ever been in, in, in a relationship
300
00:16:36,362 --> 00:16:41,672
of coaching with somebody and out of
nowhere they say something that is
301
00:16:41,672 --> 00:16:50,252
so, um, shocking that you say, uh oh,
we've now gone into the danger zone.
302
00:16:50,312 --> 00:16:51,482
I do not.
303
00:16:51,917 --> 00:16:53,327
Coach on this.
304
00:16:53,597 --> 00:16:56,327
So I've had it a couple
of different times.
305
00:16:56,807 --> 00:17:02,447
Both times it was two different, well,
both times it was abuse, different types
306
00:17:02,447 --> 00:17:10,097
from different, and I was like, oh, and
that can definitely disrupt the flow.
307
00:17:10,682 --> 00:17:14,642
When somebody says, and this is what
happened, and you're like, wait, what?
308
00:17:14,702 --> 00:17:16,892
You just said that like, oh,
I just bought a loaf of bread.
309
00:17:17,492 --> 00:17:20,821
So things like that can be
unforeseen because we don't know.
310
00:17:20,821 --> 00:17:24,061
And of course we know we have to know
how to navigate those things, which we've
311
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kind of talked about in other sessions.
312
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But I
313
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mean,
314
00:17:26,342 --> 00:17:26,672
other I,
315
00:17:28,114 --> 00:17:31,684
John: They can completely change
the coaching relationship as well,
316
00:17:32,134 --> 00:17:34,024
uh, to, to some, to some degree.
317
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And I can remember a client I was working
with several years, we'd been working
318
00:17:37,624 --> 00:17:44,074
together before, before suddenly that
comes up in, uh, in, uh, a conversation
319
00:17:44,434 --> 00:17:49,084
because of an incident that happened
before the call that her partner was not
320
00:17:49,084 --> 00:17:51,454
only married, but was also beating her up.
321
00:17:51,904 --> 00:17:53,674
And, um, it's like, well.
322
00:17:56,139 --> 00:17:59,134
We, we need to, we need to look at
this, but you know, where, where we
323
00:17:59,134 --> 00:18:02,854
had been primarily focused on business
and everything else, it's like suddenly
324
00:18:02,854 --> 00:18:07,864
this becomes about, you know, my, my
immediate concern is wanting to help her.
325
00:18:08,539 --> 00:18:09,829
Get away from that.
326
00:18:09,829 --> 00:18:11,719
And, uh, but you
327
00:18:11,822 --> 00:18:12,362
Angie: Right
328
00:18:12,589 --> 00:18:14,659
John: she still has to, she
still has to figure out what
329
00:18:14,659 --> 00:18:16,189
she wants to do within that.
330
00:18:16,189 --> 00:18:19,699
But it's like, okay, well we
are not gonna be talking about
331
00:18:19,999 --> 00:18:23,119
your, your, uh, your resume or
anything like that in this session.
332
00:18:23,389 --> 00:18:24,109
Let's, uh,
333
00:18:24,122 --> 00:18:25,862
Angie: here therein
lies the problem, right?
334
00:18:25,862 --> 00:18:28,172
Because that can forever
change the dynamic.
335
00:18:28,172 --> 00:18:32,702
Because even if you say the right things,
like, listen, Angie, listen John, you know
336
00:18:32,702 --> 00:18:35,372
I, this is way out of my level of now.
337
00:18:35,372 --> 00:18:37,982
Unless of course you are a licensed
psychologist, psychiatrist,
338
00:18:37,982 --> 00:18:39,422
and you kind of do both.
339
00:18:39,692 --> 00:18:41,252
You coach and you, that's fine.
340
00:18:41,372 --> 00:18:42,152
That's on you.
341
00:18:42,547 --> 00:18:46,297
For me and for John, for myself and
John and for most coaches, right?
342
00:18:46,297 --> 00:18:49,027
We're not, we don't have the fancy
letters at the end of our last
343
00:18:49,027 --> 00:18:52,207
name to even begin to address that.
344
00:18:52,447 --> 00:18:54,967
So that changes like a, a session or two.
345
00:18:55,357 --> 00:19:01,897
But you as a coach still, it's like you
can't unhear and unknow what you now know.
346
00:19:02,377 --> 00:19:06,152
And I think it's really difficult
to navigate past that because.
347
00:19:07,037 --> 00:19:11,747
Once somebody says something to you and
they share it with you and confess it.
348
00:19:11,747 --> 00:19:15,887
If it's that kind of a thing, now
you're like the safe person for them
349
00:19:15,887 --> 00:19:17,117
and they wanna keep bringing it up.
350
00:19:17,117 --> 00:19:19,037
It can be very, very challenging.
351
00:19:19,037 --> 00:19:21,317
I mean, that's like a whole
different ball of wax can of
352
00:19:21,317 --> 00:19:22,787
worms, whatever you wanna call it.
353
00:19:23,237 --> 00:19:27,827
But, so the point is though, we don't
always know what's going to show up
354
00:19:28,397 --> 00:19:35,747
and but, but I do think it's really
important to be able to get out, like.
355
00:19:36,302 --> 00:19:37,562
I don't know.
356
00:19:37,562 --> 00:19:42,782
I think for me, at the end of the day
is if you don't have tools to help you
357
00:19:42,782 --> 00:19:47,972
navigate and not nec, we're not saying
John and I be all things to all people.
358
00:19:48,242 --> 00:19:49,652
That's not what we're saying.
359
00:19:50,102 --> 00:19:52,922
It really depends on who
you wanna be as a coach.
360
00:19:52,922 --> 00:19:54,722
Do you wanna only focus on one area?
361
00:19:54,962 --> 00:19:58,142
Do you wanna focus on all
areas, whatever that is.
362
00:19:58,592 --> 00:20:01,112
But do you.
363
00:20:04,397 --> 00:20:09,557
Outside of imposter syndrome, ever
feel like, Hmm, I don't know if
364
00:20:09,557 --> 00:20:12,107
I can do this or should do this.
365
00:20:12,664 --> 00:20:18,544
John: I, I even also think that as
a coach, you will naturally find
366
00:20:18,544 --> 00:20:20,499
yourself steering, coaching calls.
367
00:20:21,154 --> 00:20:24,964
To the areas where you like coaching
on where you, where you can be
368
00:20:24,964 --> 00:20:26,344
most helpful and useful anyway.
369
00:20:26,464 --> 00:20:30,364
Uh, and you know, if that's already clear
from the start, like you, and let's say
370
00:20:30,364 --> 00:20:34,774
that you are like me, a speaker coach,
that we are gonna keep bringing steering
371
00:20:34,774 --> 00:20:38,464
stuff back to that if we start, if we
start veering too much off those topics,
372
00:20:38,464 --> 00:20:39,724
we're gonna keep taking it back to that.
373
00:20:39,994 --> 00:20:43,594
But I'm talking more like this may happen
in generalist coaching calls as well.
374
00:20:43,984 --> 00:20:44,404
Um.
375
00:20:44,604 --> 00:20:48,744
I am, I am more likely in generalist
coaching calls to probably steer things
376
00:20:48,744 --> 00:20:51,924
a bit more towards the professional
side of life, the business and financial
377
00:20:51,924 --> 00:20:56,574
side of things, uh, which I would rather
work on with people than their personal
378
00:20:56,574 --> 00:20:58,494
situations or, or anything like that.
379
00:20:58,554 --> 00:21:02,844
But that stuff will come up
inevitably from, from time to time.
380
00:21:03,294 --> 00:21:03,774
Um.
381
00:21:03,917 --> 00:21:05,027
Angie: you think there's value?
382
00:21:05,027 --> 00:21:10,847
Do you think there's value for somebody
to, I think to have any, I would have
383
00:21:10,847 --> 00:21:12,492
any type of training in coaching.
384
00:21:13,442 --> 00:21:15,422
Beyond like, Hey, how
do you start a business?
385
00:21:15,572 --> 00:21:15,992
yeah.
386
00:21:16,442 --> 00:21:16,802
Right.
387
00:21:16,802 --> 00:21:17,492
To help.
388
00:21:18,632 --> 00:21:18,752
Yeah.
389
00:21:20,599 --> 00:21:24,919
John: Yeah, I'm, I'm not, I'm not,
uh, completely sure how valuable,
390
00:21:24,919 --> 00:21:29,899
like, um, unless you actually want
to be a, a certified coach for the,
391
00:21:29,989 --> 00:21:32,389
you know, or you need certification
for the kind of work you wanna do.
392
00:21:32,389 --> 00:21:36,889
I'm not sure how valuable those particular
certifications are, but, but certainly
393
00:21:36,889 --> 00:21:39,934
better than just sort of calling yourself
a coach and setting up a business with.
394
00:21:40,624 --> 00:21:41,674
With not none of that.
395
00:21:42,184 --> 00:21:46,834
And then again, I do know people who've
had no coach training whatsoever,
396
00:21:46,834 --> 00:21:48,604
who are excellent at coaching.
397
00:21:48,604 --> 00:21:50,194
They're just naturally good at it.
398
00:21:50,194 --> 00:21:53,314
Or they, they've just maybe
built up experience over time.
399
00:21:53,374 --> 00:21:54,244
Uh, I say naturally.
400
00:21:54,244 --> 00:21:54,364
Good.
401
00:21:54,364 --> 00:21:59,464
Maybe it's not just, just if it's
come more naturally to them and, and
402
00:21:59,464 --> 00:22:02,254
they figured things out, um, it's, it,
403
00:22:02,297 --> 00:22:06,227
Angie: even outside of the certification
though, piece, like I feel like there
404
00:22:06,227 --> 00:22:10,697
are, like, and this is something John
and I've even talked about, right?
405
00:22:10,697 --> 00:22:11,567
What do we do next?
406
00:22:11,567 --> 00:22:15,917
Do we actually take and combine our
expertise and create something because it,
407
00:22:15,917 --> 00:22:23,327
it kind of makes sense to actually put out
some, what I would call maybe like core.
408
00:22:23,867 --> 00:22:30,887
Coaching tools, topics, themes,
that can work in any type of co, any
409
00:22:30,887 --> 00:22:35,477
type of coaching, any type to any
person at any time, and it's not.
410
00:22:35,912 --> 00:22:37,592
There's not an abundance of that.
411
00:22:37,592 --> 00:22:41,792
It's not like, oh, there's 85 different
modules to this, but like there are
412
00:22:41,792 --> 00:22:46,742
some core concepts that can really
help you, even if you're naturally
413
00:22:46,952 --> 00:22:51,002
inquisitive and and empathetic and
all of the things we've talked about.
414
00:22:51,302 --> 00:22:57,992
There are definitely some core concepts
that if Applied can keep your sessions
415
00:22:57,992 --> 00:23:04,442
out of the weeds because you can always
go back to them and make sure that.
416
00:23:05,222 --> 00:23:08,972
Not make sure, but make you
more open to be able to coach
417
00:23:09,032 --> 00:23:10,922
more people if you so choose.
418
00:23:10,922 --> 00:23:14,192
If you're not somebody who's like,
this is my coaching and this is my
419
00:23:14,192 --> 00:23:17,162
little world and, and, my avenue, um.
420
00:23:18,249 --> 00:23:18,969
John: Yeah, I agree.
421
00:23:19,029 --> 00:23:24,129
Uh, um, I, I would never, I would never
really coach anybody on spirituality or
422
00:23:24,129 --> 00:23:25,104
anything like either, 'cause it's not.
423
00:23:26,644 --> 00:23:28,414
It's just not something
that appeals to me.
424
00:23:28,894 --> 00:23:32,164
And, and, uh, it would very
much depend on what that meant
425
00:23:32,164 --> 00:23:33,394
to the, to the person as well.
426
00:23:33,394 --> 00:23:34,624
But it's not an area I'd go into.
427
00:23:34,624 --> 00:23:36,214
But there are people who
really want to do that.
428
00:23:36,214 --> 00:23:38,164
Who do who, who focus on that?
429
00:23:38,524 --> 00:23:41,614
Are they gonna be the right person
to go to for business coaching?
430
00:23:41,614 --> 00:23:45,064
Well, you know, if, if you want to
be aligning your chakras instead
431
00:23:45,064 --> 00:23:51,214
of your, uh, instead of your profit
and loss, um, then, then sure.
432
00:23:53,137 --> 00:23:54,152
Angie: I am so sorry.
433
00:23:54,474 --> 00:23:55,519
John: There, there there is a
434
00:23:55,772 --> 00:23:59,822
Angie: says things sometimes
is so shocking to me, so matter
435
00:23:59,822 --> 00:24:02,042
of fact, I'm like, oh, okay.
436
00:24:05,089 --> 00:24:06,799
John: But it's not gonna
be right for everyone.
437
00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:09,979
There are some people who will take
that spiritual approach to business
438
00:24:09,979 --> 00:24:11,149
and that will be right for them.
439
00:24:11,149 --> 00:24:14,359
And there are some people who really won't
and that's just not gonna work for you.
440
00:24:14,659 --> 00:24:19,789
So, you know, you, you do have to take
things from, um, the right coach with the
441
00:24:19,789 --> 00:24:22,039
right kind of situation that you're in
442
00:24:22,082 --> 00:24:22,712
Angie: The tools.
443
00:24:23,087 --> 00:24:23,307
Yes,
444
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:23,749
John: Tools.
445
00:24:23,989 --> 00:24:28,099
And if you go to, and I do think if you
go to a coaching company particularly to
446
00:24:28,099 --> 00:24:33,049
want to work with a coach, they should
have coaches that at least have met a
447
00:24:33,049 --> 00:24:38,659
certain standard and have the experience
to be able to deliver what they are
448
00:24:38,659 --> 00:24:40,759
offering to you and and deliver it well.
449
00:24:40,789 --> 00:24:42,349
'cause I can remember, and I'm not.
450
00:24:42,859 --> 00:24:44,089
Well, maybe I'll name names.
451
00:24:44,089 --> 00:24:48,379
Well, I can remember coaching people
who belonged to another coaching
452
00:24:48,379 --> 00:24:52,699
company from a very well known
coach, very well known life coach.
453
00:24:53,209 --> 00:24:56,299
And their coaching ability was not good.
454
00:24:57,619 --> 00:24:59,779
Their business was not good.
455
00:25:00,499 --> 00:25:02,479
What they were getting paid was not good.
456
00:25:02,829 --> 00:25:05,049
Like the whole setup was not good.
457
00:25:06,249 --> 00:25:07,029
And, uh.
458
00:25:07,419 --> 00:25:07,779
Yeah.
459
00:25:07,779 --> 00:25:10,719
And just thinking, well, you know, are
people getting what they pay for there?
460
00:25:10,899 --> 00:25:12,159
No, probably not.
461
00:25:12,249 --> 00:25:15,669
But people are trusting the name
that they're operating under, and
462
00:25:15,669 --> 00:25:18,369
so they're getting clients through
from it, but they're not get,
463
00:25:18,609 --> 00:25:20,079
they're not getting treated well.
464
00:25:20,079 --> 00:25:24,414
They're not getting, what they want out
of it, and they're not really equipped
465
00:25:24,744 --> 00:25:27,654
to deliver what is actually being sold.
466
00:25:27,924 --> 00:25:29,454
And that stuff is really important.
467
00:25:29,454 --> 00:25:32,454
But you look to something like BetterUp
now, which one of the big companies
468
00:25:32,454 --> 00:25:36,504
we talk about, uh, you do at least
have to have your ICF certification.
469
00:25:36,594 --> 00:25:37,944
Does that make you a great coach?
470
00:25:38,004 --> 00:25:39,264
Not necessarily.
471
00:25:39,324 --> 00:25:42,054
But you at least have met
a certain standard already.
472
00:25:42,897 --> 00:25:43,497
Angie: Yes.
473
00:25:44,007 --> 00:25:45,447
Understood and agreed.
474
00:25:45,507 --> 00:25:45,867
I don't know.
475
00:25:45,867 --> 00:25:48,147
I think it's something, I don't know,
John, you know, I need to consider
476
00:25:48,147 --> 00:25:51,297
something about some next steps here
because No, it was a really great
477
00:25:51,297 --> 00:25:56,157
conversation and the interesting thing
is that what I shared with this person
478
00:25:56,427 --> 00:26:02,577
shifted their entire perspective and they
don't ha, it was like one conversation
479
00:26:02,577 --> 00:26:08,937
and all of it changed because of
the self expectation and how do you.
480
00:26:10,272 --> 00:26:13,092
is there anybody, if you're a coach
out there already, I'm curious.
481
00:26:14,427 --> 00:26:15,087
Do you share?
482
00:26:15,087 --> 00:26:20,787
Have you ever had those moments where you
felt either intimidated or even, not that
483
00:26:20,787 --> 00:26:25,467
somebody was above you, but maybe like,
you know, I'm a 57-year-old woman at this
484
00:26:25,467 --> 00:26:30,177
point, and if some, if a 20-year-old girl
comes to me and says I need life coaching,
485
00:26:30,627 --> 00:26:32,787
I am, I could coach her, I'm sure.
486
00:26:32,787 --> 00:26:35,697
I'm not sure that I am as relatable.
487
00:26:36,312 --> 00:26:40,302
As I might think I can be depending
on what they, that she needs
488
00:26:40,302 --> 00:26:42,042
from me or he like whomever.
489
00:26:42,372 --> 00:26:47,022
So I think it's can, it can be like an
individual challenge to think about,
490
00:26:47,022 --> 00:26:51,222
but I also believe at the end of the day
that there are some core concepts that
491
00:26:51,222 --> 00:26:56,502
can be delivered and I believe and have
experienced and delivered myself that.
492
00:26:57,507 --> 00:27:01,257
I don't care if NASA comes as an
entire entity and says, we want you
493
00:27:01,257 --> 00:27:03,207
to come here and coach all of us.
494
00:27:03,297 --> 00:27:03,957
Okay.
495
00:27:03,957 --> 00:27:05,877
The answer is, okay, I can do that.
496
00:27:06,507 --> 00:27:08,217
That wasn't always the case for me.
497
00:27:08,217 --> 00:27:09,417
So there's that.
498
00:27:10,489 --> 00:27:13,754
John: Look, you have to be able to
create rapport with your clients.
499
00:27:13,784 --> 00:27:15,134
If you can't do that, the.
500
00:27:15,537 --> 00:27:16,197
Angie: Yes,
501
00:27:16,229 --> 00:27:17,849
John: Coaching is gonna go nowhere.
502
00:27:17,849 --> 00:27:20,969
So relatability, uh, is
a really important part.
503
00:27:21,269 --> 00:27:24,719
And, and so is your interest in being
there for the kind of coaching, it's like
504
00:27:24,744 --> 00:27:30,179
these, these are all critical elements,
that no re rapport is probably the
505
00:27:30,179 --> 00:27:36,059
main reason why human coaches will do
better than AI coaches in, in a lot of
506
00:27:36,059 --> 00:27:40,859
situations because what kind of rapport
can you really have with a computer?
507
00:27:41,817 --> 00:27:42,357
Angie: Yeah, no,
508
00:27:42,357 --> 00:27:46,257
I'm, you, know, we can have That whole
conversation again, but yeah, I agree.
509
00:27:46,767 --> 00:27:50,487
I'm always gonna stand by the human
element, you know that that's where I sit.
510
00:27:51,104 --> 00:27:51,614
John: Yeah.
511
00:27:51,704 --> 00:27:52,484
Yeah, I would too.
512
00:27:52,514 --> 00:27:55,514
And whilst there was these people and
including ourselves who get plenty
513
00:27:55,514 --> 00:27:58,034
of value out of like AI coaching and
stuff like that, there, there are
514
00:27:58,034 --> 00:28:01,754
elements of coaching, which I just
would not go to AI for, where I, I
515
00:28:01,754 --> 00:28:05,634
need some human interaction, where
I need rapport, where I need, people
516
00:28:05,634 --> 00:28:07,494
to hold space and, and whatever else.
517
00:28:07,494 --> 00:28:08,424
So, um, yeah.
518
00:28:08,854 --> 00:28:11,164
I think that this stuff, this
stuff is already important.
519
00:28:11,164 --> 00:28:14,434
So can anyone coach anyone
on anything Still, yes or no?
520
00:28:14,734 --> 00:28:17,224
Uh, but I think you maybe
understand a bit more at this point.
521
00:28:17,424 --> 00:28:19,224
Why is both answers like yes?
522
00:28:19,447 --> 00:28:20,877
Angie: Yeah, definitely.
523
00:28:21,207 --> 00:28:21,927
I agree.
524
00:28:22,914 --> 00:28:23,274
John: All right.
525
00:28:23,304 --> 00:28:26,094
Let's wrap things up there for this week,
but we'll be back again pretty soon.