For the most part Paul had to live with the stereotypes and negative perceptions of society towards obesity. This episode focuses on being more mindful of other people, and to have better relationships. Now paul is changing - after starting to take shots for diabetes, Paul noticed that his brain's wiring changed. Which took a while to acclimate and reset into.

and I'm merch Citi.

This is the Audi Ford Advisors and, uh, we'll get

to the advice in a minute, but Rich, let's get personal today.

Okay?

around Christmas.

I came to you and I.

Something weird is happening.

You did,

I, I had told my wife and I told you.

And I, I'll just put it out for the listener.

I've also, I've written about this in Wired, I'm being public about

it, so, um, I am a very big person.

I have what is known as morbid obesity, or as I like to call it, fatal thickness.

yes.

sound

group.

No, it's not great and uh, it's an absolute curse in my

life and has been for 38 years.

Let's just put that part aside for a minute.

Let's just leave that

Alright, so, I mean, uh, can I ask you a question about that?

Any question you want.

It's not, it is a product of you eating you're

big because you eat a lot.

You used to eat a lot.

It wasn't like, there are other conditions that have nothing to do with

it's not like a, it's not a thyroid condition.

not a thyroid condition.

Okay.

Okay.

Keep going.

and so, uh, I've wrestled with this.

I, at one point lost a hundred pounds and then watched it come back.

And when I say watched it, it's a very surreal process cuz I'm

a bright fellow and I just like, Couldn't keep the weight off.

I just kept eating,

Which is a classic challenge,

Well, almost everybody who loses weight gains it back.

And then some even interventions like gastric bypass, uh, often

don't succeed in the long run.

So,

re regain weight.

Yeah.

Meanwhile, the society is not really empathetic about that whole thing.

They're like, yeah, whatever, fatty.

And so it's just something that I kind of was like, well, I live with this.

I'm probably gonna die with it.

My, the culture I live in doesn't really have a lot of sympathy for me,

so I better just focus on my life and my friendships and do the best I can.

That's my

Can I, can I mimic society for a moment?

ahead.

He's big because he has no self-control.

Absolutely.

That's what society thinks

and it's on him.

Absolutely.

That's, that is, look, I, I can negotiate with that and I can,

you can't talk back to society.

You can't.

No.

So, but what, what science found, and God knows, no one cared, but science

was like, yeah, man, once that weight comes on, it just doesn't come off.

You can lose it.

Absolutely.

You, you don't eat in the exercise.

It works.

But once it's, once it's.

Even if you lose it, your brain just sets itself and it's like,

no, no, we gotta get back there.

Gotta get

Got it.

It's, it's, it's a gravitational pull.

Yeah.

Back to a

thins in your body right now.

Right.

And so, um, so as you can imagine, this was a, a source of tension in my entire

life, in every moment of my, my existence.

Well, I, I've, I've spent, I've probably spent more time with you

over the last 10 years than anyone else.

Well, you know that, like that 10,000 hours rule,

you're an expert in Paul Fort.

an expert You're like a world expert

You, you are.

You are one of my closest friends and we work together.

Yes.

Even you, you could have really close friends, but you don't

spend eight hours a day with them.

We

actually work together.

actually comes down to pacing

It comes down to

to pacing.

Yeah.

Um, and I will say this, as your friend of the

past 10 years, I had no idea.

I had no idea that you were dealing with the world perceiving you that

way because you kind of buried it.

I, you, you sort of have to, when you have, and look, people

will be, Like I said, I lost the weight before and people will have all

kinds of judgements, but the reality was kind of no matter what I did, I

just couldn't get it under control.

And like I said, you're just, I'm gonna keep going.

I'm a boss, I'm a successful writer.

I'm doing all kinds of things.

And if I bring that part of myself, if I bring that part of myself

that's obese and outta control into that world, it gets real messy.

So I just kind of draw a little curtain.

Yep.

Okay.

And you know, it's you.

I mean, and it's not like you and I didn't talk about.

And we talked about food and behavior, and sometimes I was losing weight

and sometimes I was gaining weight.

Anxiety was a part of it.

So like you were in the mix on it.

And then ultimately it came down to me and my body.

There's like nothing anyone else can

No, I, I, as a friend, I, I worried about your

Yeah.

You should

I didn't, I didn't judge you as someone that was gluttonous or

doing terrible things to themselves.

I didn't, I I was, because I know you well enough and you're self aware enough that

it, that wasn't in my mind, it was more like, you know, take care of yourself.

Trust me as a fat person, I know the difference in a friendship.

Wow.

That's interesting.

Yeah, I know.

I know.

You are a kind and loving person who wanted, who wanted wish.

Well, for me, sometimes you'd give me shit, but that's fine.

You're my friend.

Yeah, right.

Like there are people who aren't as kind, but you, you had a fundamental

kindness to you, and it's one of the ways that we work together.

Um,

So It is dark.

And so I came to you and I was like, so I, I am type two diabetic, which

is a normal outcome of being this big.

Sure.

And I see an endocrinologist and he had me on, I, I, I have

a pretty well managed condition.

He had me on a thing called Ozempic Ozempic, A zick, um, stimulates the

production of insulin in the body.

It's not insulin.

Very popular drug, one of the most popular drugs.

And it's great because you're not putting insulin in your body.

You're telling your body to make insulin.

So very good, very healthy.

Side effect of of ozempic is it makes you a little less hungry.

Satia is like, sort of like, just kind of diminished.

And so you see it now, um, Hollywood Diet, the Mindy Kaing loses 50 pounds

and everybody says, is it, is it Ozempic?

Oh, okay.

Okay.

Okay.

So a lot of discussion about this.

Very successful drugs, um, good for type two diabetics.

I took it and I, I was able to maintain and lose about 10, 15

pounds and that was good, but that is not a significant change in my.

It was, but it was

a small percentage of what you need to.

lose.

But what was great for me was the sense that I was maintaining instead of

increasing, I was like, okay, cuz I'm, I'm something, my health was at risk.

And so I'm like, all right, well at least my health is at less risk.

Okay,

Okay.

So I go see my endocrinologist and it's typical doctor, you

know, Mount Sinai system.

You're like, Hey, how?

He's like, how you doing?

Oh, your A1C s are great.

You're doing really good.

You'll lose weight.

I'm like, no, not really.

I lost like 10 pounds.

He was like, ah, you gotta try this new one.

I'll give it you.

It's called Manjaro.

I'm gonna give it to you.

I'm like, okay, cool, thanks.

He's like, see you in May.

Bye.

Okay.

So that was the entire intervention that I received from my, um,

he's like, yeah, political.

Yeah, yeah.

incredibly thoughtful.

It's like, ah, numbers look good.

Bye.

Okay, so.

Okay.

Click

December, 2022.

Yeah, they're about early December.

So I go, I get the prescription, it comes to the house.

I'm like, all right, well, we'll try the, I'll use the Azam pickup and

then I'll switch to this so about two weeks in, I go, what happened?

Because suddenly my brain feels really, really different.

And I wrote a, I wrote about this.

I'm not hungry.

Like, I'm not hungry and I didn't realize before I took this med how.

My energy, like maybe I would, I would.

Something ridiculous amount, 30%, 40% of my brain was just always going.

How am I gonna get those calories?

Gotta get 'em.

Gotta get those calories.

Yeah.

Click.

Okay.

So in the test,

a switch

I

decided to walk home from here.

Uh, to my home and, or at least most of the way.

Sometimes I do that.

Take a bus, get, get a little exercise and I was like, uh, that's dinner.

You know what?

I'm gonna go in.

And I was really kind of testing myself on seventh Avenue Park Slope.

There's this kind of old school Chinese restaurant.

Like

No,

no.

Like seated.

Like see, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

So I go on in and I sit down.

I'm like, there's nobody else there.

A fat guy in a Chinese restaurant.

We've all seen that before.

And I order General SOS with broccoli

sweet and spicy fried

And if you are someone who is looking for calories,

boy this is just hot gold.

Like he just, just get it in there.

So I have like five bites and I go, oh.

And that, that has not happened in 30 years.

Wow.

I'm just, I'm good.

I ate all the broccoli and I was like, God, this isn't that good.

how did you feel at that moment?

Extremely confused.

Confused.

Well you're, you're talking about like fundamental wiring.

You know, we don't, we haven't talked about on this podcast, but

we didn't, you had brain surgery.

And you had a lot of meds because you had a seizure condition that were

managing that, and then you had brain surgery and you didn't have it anymore,

and you went off the meds, right.

So you, you had a transitional moment in your life where you

went from like having this thing that was always extremely present.

Always in the background.

Exactly.

And then now it's not.

not.

So when we were talking about this, you compared it to, and I was

like, yeah, it, it feels that way.

So then as a side effect, I just started shedding weight cause I'm not eating.

Okay, so

but no, let me be clear too, I am enjoying food more.

I'm eating healthy stuff.

I did all that work to lose that a hundred pounds.

So my nutrition knowledge is really good.

You're

not running to sugar and cake

No, and it's carbs

New York City is brutal.

Every office, every bodega, every, every pl they just love to give

you another, you know, can of

what my favorite is?

Yogurt muffins.

There's like no yogurt in them.

And then there's like white yogurt, pretzels.

Everything is a Twinkie.

Right?

Everything.

So, so you've seen me and you've, you've noticed the behavior to the

point that you now call me out on it.

You're like, don't order the fu if you're not going to eat any of the noodles.

you we went out to eat out of Vietnamese place.

You left I think 80% of the noodles.

and I was

the meat, but you

left meat.

I wanted the protein.

I was just flat out full.

And I should have had a salad.

You should have had a salad.

Because, and it wasn't like I should have had a salad because that

would be virtuous for me as a big guy.

It was, I should have had a salad because I wasted 80% of the food.

How much weight have you lost?

Um, first of all, just before, no, I will, I will say

the number, but before I say it, let me just say the weight loss.

People think that weight loss is very virtuous and that you are working hard.

Yeah,

and I've done that.

I, I used to work, I did a three.

You

a hundred pounds.

bite you.

I would ride my bike three hours a day.

I would track every calorie.

I built a calorie tracker.

Um, so this is different.

This is different, but I've lost, um, let me think.

So 34 pounds.

Wow.

In the last three months.

months.

Okay.

That's a lot.

It's a enormous amount of weight to lose without a focused weight

loss strategy, like typically to make

not late.

This is not consuming your life in terms of this is my project for my

life.

now, you know, when you would see results like this, you'd literally

see them on the TV show, the Biggest Loser, cuz it was a full-time job.

It's all they did.

It's all they did right?

You just were gonna, and we cooked the food for you and you run on the

beach and we're gonna, we're gonna teach you about nutrition and so on.

It was the biggest Loser would get these kind of results and then it would

a horrible show and a horrible name for a

It was really bad.

Size.

Uh, at one point GQ Magazine asked me to write about being

fat, and I, I almost did.

And I was like, I'm, I'm not gonna do that.

I'm not

don't join the fray.

leave, gonna leave myself.

That last little bit.

Okay.

Um, I mean, uh, let me, let me talk about this from my perspective

and what I've seen, cuz we

Sure.

a lot, we were working together, we have a startup together.

And, and, uh, first off,

As a baseline, I'm just happy for you.

Uh,

good to have control over this part of

I mean, uh, it's, it's great to ha to get this opportunity

to take care of yourself without it being like a massive life commitment.

And that's, that's the way to put it.

Or surgery.

I have to take a shot every week probably for as long as I

have to take the shot, like forever.

And that gives me the ability.

To make very well controlled decisions about my own health.

I'm still out in terrible shape.

I still have to like,

there's a road ahead

course.

No, but I started working out again.

I started lifting weights and like, you know, you just, it's just so much easier.

What shocked me?

So that, I mean, that's the, the thing that's sort of overarching, right?

It's like, great, you've got a plan and you've got, I mean,

it's, this is a miracle, right?

It's like, it's, it's like antibiotics, right?

It's, it's a big thing.

I mean, obesity's a huge problem, not just in America, but around the world.

Even in poorer countries, the poorer you are, the worst shape

well, just so many cheap calories,

so many cheap calories.

So it's great that this exists.

Hopefully it becomes something that is available to, to pe to

everyone that need it, needs it.

The other thing I just started to notice was like, you're a little wired.

Yes.

talk about that.

And then there's a third thing I noticed.

So number, so one of the ways that this new medication works is

it doesn't just produce the insulin, um, or, or hit the, uh, centers of

your brain that are hungry, but it kind of gives you a little extra energy.

Yeah.

And so at first, especially at first, it was very s.

Spiky.

Like I was losing, I was shedding a lot of weight and I had

this like spiky energy push.

And so I literally had, and I, I communicated th this to you and actually

to the leadership of the company we share cuz I had pressured speech.

I was a little wide-eyed.

I was, I was literally kind of doing squats in the office

just to kind of burn energy.

What I didn't know is, That life around you, uh, was very distracting

as you were sort of rebooting yourself.

You, you were almost agitated with anything else coming at you.

It's less and less now.

No, I tried to communicate that.

I couldn't process almost anything.

anything.

You were, I, I'd ask you to do something.

At at work and you were like, why are you on my back?

And meanwhile, I asked you nicely like a minute prior.

Like it wasn't like I was yelling at you, you were kind of, you were agitated

because I think you were still kind of

No, in my, in my head I was, Who is this new guy?

Meaning me?

Yeah.

and going And you'd be asking for things and I'm like, what's that?

Like, I just couldn't parse the world.

Yeah.

The third thing I noticed, and it wasn't a notice you said it, um, is

that you were kind of revisiting a lot of your relationships throughout

your life and you were pretty angry.

Yes.

That's real.

Right?

So it it's

just talk through that.

Well, there's a few things I would say.

It just feels either that they slammed my, my sort of self back into my body or

that I, sometimes I'm, I'm thinking about now, I'm a couple months in and I think

about myself as the other guy from a few months ago because that guy was just like

living in, he was sleepwalking, right?

So there's a lot of.

but why are you angry with everybody else

It's fading.

But for a while I was, I, because this thing dominated my life and I had doctors

saying, you know, just kind of yelling at me.

I had people just kind of treating me with various kinds of disrespect.

Yeah.

And, um, I was in a lot of pain over that time.

Yeah.

And, uh, and so, you know, I was just like, God man, the world kind of didn't,

kind of had it in for me for a while and I felt really bitter at the same time.

Then you, you go through those feelings and thoughts and then you

go, well, I know who my friends are.

Yep.

I love my family.

People have stood by me many times.

And then you focus on that.

You, uh, uh, I'll share an observation.

Uh, you had a perfect storm, uh, hit you, which led to a lot of brutal judgment.

Um, I mean, first off, people drew conclusions about you.

Oh, meaning when I was a fat boss,

Well, yeah, I mean, you, you, you, you found a lot of success

Oh,

and you were, you were a fat boss and, and for those people

it's much easier to rationalize and by not, by the way, it doesn't have

to be boss, it could be colleague in, in the media, it could be anybody.

It doesn't matter people, uh, you were in a situation where,

People drew conclusions without even knowing you very well about

how gluttonous and greedy you are.

And they do that.

They do that not to be mean.

They do that because A, it helps them feel better about themselves.

It's like, wait a minute, I have like 2% body fat.

Why don't I see Paul Ford's success?

People are crazy,

Oh, no, no.

The irony of being.

are

Being a fat successful person means that when people

look at you, they go, yeah, but

Exactly.

It's like, and it's like, don't think, I don't know.

Right.

Like it's, of course

we, we built a business in New York City.

It is a brutal place.

Yeah.

It is a judgmental

Oh my God.

Is it competitive

Right.

And on top of that, you're a big guy.

Oh yeah.

Me, I'll just barrel right through.

And, and same for me, by barreling through I've learned who my friends are

and who I can trust and who I can't.

What I love is I'm also like, I'm a media guy and I'm a public figure.

Like it's a disaster.

You're a stereotype.

Oh yeah.

You, you, you were the layup.

You were

Oh, of

to stereotype and they did it because it's easier.

You know what's wild is, is then people would interact with me with

that sort of portrait of me in their head and I could tell, and you would just be

like, oh, you just completely hate me.

And I don't know why.

Exactly.

One of the things that's actually, it's very, very bizarre about running

a business and having successes.

Every now and then we'll make a decision that really pisses people.

off.

Mm-hmm.

and they'll look at me and they'll, they'll be really angry

with me, and they'll want to say something about it, and I can see

it in their eyes, and it's almost a relief to know why they hate me.

Yeah.

Because most of the time I felt hated without knowing why.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, so anyway, here we are.

We should give people some advice.

That's the, that's the podcast.

So here we are.

I'm in the middle of all this.

I think what I would say is, if you're someone who has the same challenge I

do, um, don't be afraid of these drugs when they get FDA approval, go for it.

Um, right now, Manjaro is for type two.

It's being prescribed off label, but when the supply chain stuff is resolved and you

can get a steady access, it's pretty good.

Definitely look into

straight up, concrete piece of advice.

you'll, you'll live longer and better.

There's that, it's, there is, there's also, we talked a lot

about the social aspects of it, but you'll also be healthier

No, it's fun to scamper up the stairs.

it is,

It sure

is.

Yeah.

I'm gonna give a piece of advice for everyone else.

I'm gonna tell it through a story.

I remember this story and I don't know why it stuck in my mind.

I went to, uh, a fast food place.

This is, I'm, I kid you not 25 years.

It.

This fast food place is called Roy Rogers

Oof.

It was burgers and fries and roast beef sandwiches.

like, it's like a Hardee's but maybe worse.

I don't

it was in Brooklyn.

It was like a Hardee's and, and I went in.

And I was like a smug 25 year old and it was busy.

It was kind of chaotic in there and it was like six o'clock and the

person was kind of gruff and pushy with me, like as I ordered my thing.

Can we just pause for one sec?

There is no chaos.

Like Brooklyn.

Fast food

camp.

It's crazy,

mean, Manhattan doesn't come close.

I've never been anywhere where just stuff can just feel like it's

about to spiral out of control.

So this person was rude to me.

Yeah.

And not nice to me.

Not rude.

Uh, rude is probably too strong.

He was just kind of like, didn't give a shit.

He was like, what do you want?

Like, he was kind of smug and, and a little bit of anger there.

And then, uh, and then I made a joke.

I was like, and what about that customer service?

And he looked up at me and he said, I've had a really long day and I, at that

moment, I realized that it was about me.

Yeah.

And this person had probably dished out 6,000 burgers.

Yeah.

Over like a 10 hour shift.

And here I was saying, making a comment about how he wasn't nice

just showing how you were a little bit in control.

Right.

Like, just a

bit of that.

And also I was a little hurt.

I thought I was being funny and smart and nice, and this

guy wasn't being nice to me.

And the, the advice out of that is I've, we, we meet all sorts.

And some people, some people look genetically, Are just satanic.

They're just terrible.

You ever meet like a nine year old who's just a piece of shit?

It's terrible, right?

I was like, oh my God.

Poor child.

Poor, poor, everybody.

It's

a sad situation.

You just see where it's gonna go.

But for most, there's stuff going on.

Yeah.

And

And pause and think about the stuff that's going on for people.

That is, and I am, if anyone who works with me or knows me, I'm a bulldog.

Like I'm an aggressive person.

And I've tried over the years to better understand what's going on with people.

Uh, and it's a healthy thing.

You get, you get better relationships out of it, and you feel better, frankly.

It's not about you always.

Paul, I'm happy for you.

Well, let's see how long it lasts.

But I will say the, you know, the funny thing, the weight loss is great.

Like obviously I feel better, feeling better, but, uh, the clarity is, is all,

Look, this is so good that I've heard you numerous

times say that you're worried about it, like no longer working.

It's their supply chain issues with the drug and so on and so forth.

I will say also the, um, I'm back to work, right?

Like it took a minute.

It actually, this

was

you, you needed to reset.

This was a, this was a huge, huge thing for you and you are settling down.

Yeah.

I have a little ways to go

psychologically and socially and whatnot.

I have a little ways to go, but here we are.

It's great.

Uh, boy, this was a special one, Paul.

Very special episode of Z Ford

Uh,

check out the article by the way.

It's great.

That's right.

We'll put a link

at wired, uh, wired.com.

Uh, thanks for listening to the Zian Ford podcast.

You can find us in all the usual places where podcasts are made available, and

on Twitter, ziti ford ziti ford.com.

Send us an email hello to audi ford.com.

Let's uh, get back to work.

Bye.