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Hello.

Hello.

Today we're going to talk about why it's important to have a woman at the front of the room.

Everywhere, really.

Yeah.

Welcome to Beauty and the gi, a podcast about Jiu Jitsu and so much more.

I'm AJ Klingerman, a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt obsessed with Jiu Jitsu.

I'm.

And I'm Jennifer Risser, also a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt, full of nonsense and tomfoolery, but maybe not quite this week.

I don't know how serious this one is.

I don't think it has to be, like, a super heavy topic or anything.

It kind of started, I'm gonna be honest, with an argument.

I got Facebook.

One of our friends, Joanna, posted that a red flag is a man running a women's only class at your Jiu Jitsu gym.

I was not arguing with her.

I was arguing with one of the men in the comments.

What was really funny about it, not funny, but, you know, I guess also not surprising is that all of the women in the comments were like, yes, absolutely, 100% blah, blah.

And the couple men in the comments were triggered.

Triggered.

They were triggered.

They were arguing about it.

Well, they're teaching women's only classes.

Yeah, yeah.

And the one guy specifically was very much like, I'm not a creep.

I'm a good guy.

I have a wife and daughter.

You know, I would never do anything like that, so why is it that I can't run our women's only class?

First of all, lots of creeps have a wife and a daughter.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And how many times do women say, or anyone say, you know, well, I didn't expect it to be him or, you know, he seems like such a nice guy.

You know, it happens a lot.

I mean, learned a lot and grown a lot.

But this is a hard thing.

You know, this is a really complex topic.

You know, we've been on sort of both sides of it in a sense.

You know, not necessarily the man at the front of the room situation, but, you know, having men who we thought were nice guys, not actually be nice guys.

Yep.

The thing about the loaded gun is something that you mentioned that I think is, like, really relevant.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I heard it basically as, you know, the concept that you should treat every gun as if it's loaded, Even if you're 100% sure it is not loaded.

You treat it like it is.

You don't point it at people.

You don't pull the trigger in someone's direction.

You.

You treat it as if It's a loaded gun.

And I heard that in reference to how women kind of handle men, and that is, you know, we treat them like they're a loaded gun, even if we know that they're a good guy and they wouldn't do anything.

Never.

A hundred percent know that.

Agreed.

You know, I think Marcel Gonzalez is a great example of.

He was arrested several years ago for having an inappropriate relationship with a 14 year old student of his, that he was taking her to tournaments across the state and that kind of stuff.

And I knew that guy, that man stayed in my house, I stayed in his house.

Like he had a wife and a kid.

And I, you know, when I first heard about it, when people first contacted us, I had the moment of like, no way.

Like, I.

No way.

That's wild.

But immediately was like, okay, yeah, that's.

He did it and he needs to suffer the consequences for that.

But, you know, there's always these moments where people are like, not that guy.

Yeah, it could also be that guy.

Yeah, I mean, it's more people than we think.

It's more men than we think.

You know, this is anecdotal, but recently we had a woman attend our judo class couple months ago, who had never done judo before, but she had been doing jiu jitsu with us.

Now, we knew that she had a difficult past.

She's been through some things that can be really triggering for her in the jiu jitsu setting.

So, you know, I think we'd been trying to be really careful telling her that consent matters.

She can opt out of anything, you know, but she went to that judo class.

There's more men around.

It's a male dominated class, and the male instructor worked with her.

You know, the male instructor did not do absolutely anything wrong in this context, other than his response to what happened.

But in the moment, he was just teaching her some new stuff.

Right.

It's typical that the black belt is gonna, you know, work with the newer students.

That's gonna happen sometimes.

But for her, it was a large man with his arms around her, behind her, and it really triggered her into a panic attack.

And so I don't think that men really appreciate or recognize how hard it is for women to enter spaces like this that are so male dominated.

It takes a lot, takes a lot of courage.

Takes a lot, takes to get us in the door in the first place.

And we need women's only spaces.

We just do.

You know, we've had moments at our gym where we've thought, you know, all our guys are really Good.

We've really weeded out the guys that are not good.

You know, do we really need a women's only class?

And the answer is always yes, because it's not our decision about if the men are safe.

Right.

You know, you can think, well, I'm one of the good guys.

You might be, but a woman off the street doesn't know that or feel safe.

Like, this is about providing training opportunities for women where they can feel safe and like they're in a place where they're building their own strength and resilience and finding their own power, especially for women who have been assaulted in some capacity.

Yeah.

So this isn't an anti man podcast at all.

This is not meant to be.

Like, the men can't be in the front of the room because they're all creeps.

That's not what we're saying.

But as a woman, you never know which one is.

And so when you come in as a new person, if there's a man at the front of the room, it can take away some of that comfort.

Yeah.

And that's not everybody.

Right.

There are going to be tons of women that are comfortable, no matter who's at the front of the room or who their training partners are.

But the topic specifically, I don't know if we said this, but the topic specifically was basically men cashing in on providing women's only classes.

And they're running the women's only classes.

It's cashing in on the need for safe spaces for women without actually providing a safe space for women.

And so that's a very specific thing.

Yep.

Right.

And so it kind of gets down to your why.

Like, is your why just because it's another class you think can, like, bring you in people, and that's why you want to do it.

You know, it's a good marketing opportunity.

Or is your why truly that you want to provide a safe space for women where they can feel comfortable, they can feel heard, and they can let their guard down enough to get into these really awkward positions that are jiu jitsu.

Yeah.

I mean, and Joanna's point was simply, put time into the women that are at your gym.

Put enough time into them that they can be at the front of the room.

You started teaching women's only classes at blue belt when you were gone.

I started teaching women's only class at, like, three stripe white belt.

Those women don't need fancy stuff that requires a purple belt or above.

Those women can learn to UPA or do a scissor sweep or A guillotine.

Right.

Like they, they need the space more than they need the really high level technique.

Technique.

Right.

Being in a safe environment and finding their strength or their power is what that's about.

And if you can't listen to women say that to you, then it is about money, not about creating a safe space for women.

I don't know how else to say it other than that.

Yeah, yeah, I think you're right.

I think then your reasoning is not the same as mine.

That's the reality of it.

And like, that was the purpose of the post.

Yeah.

Is invest in the women you have at your gym so that they can be creating these spaces.

It doesn't need to be a black belt man at the front of the room.

It doesn't need to be a man at the front of the room.

Exactly.

In fact, like, there was a local school here that was running a women's only class and there was a man leading the class.

And we know that that man is stalker.

Like he stalked his previous girlfriend.

And you know, we saw all the screenshots and like a lot of the stuff, it was very public.

And that man also had met that girl as a white belt at the gym.

But, you know, then that's the man that's leading your women's only class.

Like.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't know why people can't kind of look at the toxicity that's in jiu jitsu.

Like even if you look at the Andre Galvo stuff that's been coming up or all the, the predecessors before that, you know, look at the big ones like Lloyd Irvin or what's the guy's name in Florida?

Cyborg.

But the reason he, you know, was because he tried to hide Marcel.

Like.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, so it is such a culture and, you know, you don't even have to.

Okay.

You know, you don't believe the women.

First of all, that's a problem.

You probably shouldn't be running a women's class.

We don't believe the women.

But go look in the comment section of a female blue belts reel about Jiu Jitsu where she's just in no geek gear or something.

Like, go read the comments.

Go read the comments.

Like that should tell you everything you need to know about why women need a safe place and why it's not with a man at the front of the room.

Yep, yep.

You know, like, I, I believe that there are a lot of men out there that have good intentions, but when you're not listening to women's Voices telling you, hey, you might be well intentioned, but you're wrong.

Well, yeah.

And you know, we have learned from past things.

You know, at our women's only camp, we have had men in the past that have taught.

But then, you know, some of them got up in the front of the room and made jokes.

Yeah.

And it was so gross that we were like, this is.

This isn't it, this isn't it.

And well, that wasn't even on purpose.

It was like the person canceled last minute, Right?

Yeah.

So, you know, that was not an ideal situation in any sense of the word.

But like, that man was a real jerk and he continues to be a jerk.

Yeah.

So at the time we thought, this guy's good at jiu jitsu, he can be a good replacement last minute.

Cause it was the week of camp that we had to replace the instructor.

And I think it would have been better had, you know, I taught or something at purple or brown, whatever I was then, you know, I think I was brown because I didn't get it.

2019.

You're right.

Sorry.

Anyways, but you know, I think it would have been better to have a woman in the front of the room that cared about the women there.

And so, you know, we've learned from this as well.

Like, I think that's something that we're asking for is just learn and do better.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't think, I don't think we're asking for perfection.

I think most people aren't.

Like, we have certainly made mistakes in this realm which we own.

But if you, if you're not listening, if you're not trying to do better, what are you doing?

You know what I mean?

Like, you know, it's, it's one thing to say, you know, I've made a mistake.

I'm listening.

But most of the men in those comments were just doubling, tripling down.

And that's just wild to me.

Like, you're cashing in on us without hearing our voices.

Yeah.

You know, we were at an open mat this weekend.

We were supposed to go to 2.

We're both black belts.

I am of a fair size.

I mean, same.

We're both in the heavyweight division.

Yeah.

I consider myself a high calorie grappler,.

As some might say.

And we were still really nervous about going to open mats, you know, especially ones with men at them, because you just don't Know what you're going to get, you know, what's the setting going to be if you've not been to that gym?

If you don't really know those people, you just don't know.

Yeah, yeah.

So even at black belt, we're telling you, like we're nervous sometimes to step into a new room to roll with new people.

Like, if we're nervous, the woman that's coming in for the first time might be terrified.

Some people are very outgoing, very into new things.

They're not going to have a problem.

But some women are, you know, really going to struggle and having a woman at the front of the room is going to make them more comfortable.

Now, I would like to also argue that those women should be at the front of the room in your co ed classes.

But if you are running a women's only class, it needs to be run by a woman.

Yeah.

And I hope that nobody takes this as anti man.

It certainly isn't.

There are tons of well intentioned men.

There are tons of great men in jiu jitsu.

We know a lot of them.

You know, we know that they're out there.

We're not saying men are creeps.

We are saying that women have to protect themselves.

You know, like they're coming in for a safe space, some of them, because they've been attacked, they've been assaulted, they deserve to have a comfortable space to train.

Yep, yep.

And if you are committed to doing this and all you have is one blue belt woman that is able to teach the class, work with her, you know, work with her on like what the curriculum is going to be and you know, make sure she knows the moves to teach anything like that.

But give her the opportunity to be a leader for those women.

Yeah, absolutely.

And honestly, sometimes someone newer to jiu jitsu can be a better instructor.

They may not be getting all the details exactly right, but they remember what it's like to be new and they can be very helpful because of that.

Yeah.

They're closer to the struggle.

Yep, that's true.

Yeah.

So as we're kind of wrapping this up here, I have an overall question for you and for our audience.

What is your thought?

Like, is it better to have no women's only class or is it better to have a woman's only class led by a man?

That's a tough one.

I mean, I think if you're going to have a man led women's class, you need to be really clear about it, you know, because like, you don't want people showing up Thinking they're going to be in this women's space and they're not.

Yep.

You know, like, that's still run by a man.

It's just different.

It just is.

You just have to take our word for it.

Yeah.

What do you think?

Yeah, I think that best case scenario, you have a woman that can teach it.

Next best thing is you can teach another woman how to teach the class.

And at least you can have a space and a time when the women can get together and train together, even if it's not specifically a class.

You know, maybe it's a women's open mat on a Saturday or something where they can train together.

But I think all of those things are better than having a man lead the class and a woman anticipating that she's coming into a women's only place and it's actually.

No.

Yeah, I agree.

You know, probably you're not starting a women's only class with zero women at your gym.

Right.

You've probably got, like, one to two at least before you're going to start a women's only class.

Yeah.

Why can't that one or two teach a setup sweep?

Yep.

Or like you said, hold a women's open mat.

Yeah.

I think having a women's only space is more important than having, like, a class that's, like, perfectly run and taught.

You know, I think that if you're going to have a man run it, you need to be really clear that that's what's happening.

But I would vote you allow a women's only space rather than agreed.

Have a man lead it.

Yeah.

I started our women's only class.

I think, like, the week I got my.

It's like the next week I started the class and I was very nervous about, like, can I teach this?

Like, do I know enough jiu jitsu?

And sometimes I would, like, run over to the other mat and grab a coach and be like, okay, I was gonna do this.

Is that how I do that?

Is that right?

And then I'd run back to the women's mat and be like, okay, I've got this.

I'm ready for it.

But all in all, it just mattered that I cared about the women and that I cared about their comfort level and trying to help them progress.

And, I mean, Here we are 13 years later into our women's program, and I think it's going pretty well.

Yeah.

Having a good time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's my thought.

Yeah.

So invest in your women.

Find a way to empower them.

Yeah.

Send them to camp yes.

Yeah.

Send them to camp.

We'll help them build their women's community.

Was this a long con for a Role Model camp?

When is it not?

Every podcast ends with all the women should come to Role Model Camp.

That's just Truly, though.

You should.

Truly.

Yeah.

If you haven't booked your hotel room for camp, you should do that.

The cutoff is June 9th.

Ninth.

So that's very soon.

When this podcast comes out, you won't have that much time left.

So make sure you get that booked.

That's really important because we'll lose our discount at that time.

Yes.

And the rooms regularly are about a hundred dollars more a night than what we get their deal for.

So make sure that you are getting your room booked before June 9th.

Yeah.

Please register if you haven't contact.

If you could use a scholarship, we have some of those available.

Specifically, we would love some help with our booth and.

Or putting the mats down.

I know we've got a couple people helping, but it's always easier when we have multiple people helping.

If we have a whole crew, it just comes together in no time.

So we would love some help.

I promise it'll be me and not mean aj.

I'm not mean.

That's what makes me so nice.

AJ will be busy running just every workshop, apparently, or something.

I don't know.

Maybe.

Maybe.

But yeah, usually, like, we on Friday morning, we throw the mats up in the morning, so you'd still be able to attend the workshops.

And then sometimes we ask for some help at the booth at various times.

So you would still get to train a lot.

It wouldn't be the kind of thing where you're, like, working through all of training.

So we would love some help with that.

Yes.

Yeah.

I'm getting excited.

When this podcast comes out, we'll be right at five weeks, so it is right around the corner.

Right around the corner.

Holy crap.

Right?

We got a lot to do.

We got a lot to do.

Okay, well, how does this thing end?

I think we just say, where do they find us?

Yeah.

Okay.

They can find us at Beauty and the Ghee podcast on Instagram, which I have, I think, fully taken over now.

I think we've released Jen of all of those duties.

So if you message us, I'm doing my best.

Yeah.

So.

And I'm AJ Klingerman everywhere you go.

And we just got a hold of the YouTube, so we're going to post some of these videos now that we have the YouTube back.

Yes.

Get registered for camp@role models wanted.com.

All right, well, until next time, we'll.

See you on the mat.

Beauty and the Ghee is a production of the Whiny Pibble podcast Company and.

Brought to you by Role Model Grappling.

I was going to suggest Whiny Pibble.

Ra.