Season One: State vs Steffen Baldwin / Episode 6: The Con Whisperer

We will be diving into the stories of Baldwin's victims. In this episode, we discuss:

• Chesty
• Romeo
• Belle
• PeeWee, and Coco

Some of these dogs survived him, others were not as lucky. We want to share their stories and that of the people who cared about them.

Throughout the next episodes, we will talk about the animal and human victims of Steffen Baldwin. These episodes include interviews, news stories, and courtroom testimony during Baldwin's trial.

These episodes cover sensitive topics such as animal abuse and domestic violence, so please take care of yourself as e recognize these victims for their sacrifices.

Det. Jim Conroy:

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Like there's just no reason to even lie.

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Just, you know, he doesn't have to lie

in this particular situation, but he

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would lie and I would be like, what?

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Why?

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Like, I just didn't understand.

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DrG: Hi, and welcome to the

Animal Welfare Junction.

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. This is your host, Dr.

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G.

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And our music is written and

produced by Mike Sullivan.

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This is Season one State

versus Stefan Baldwin.

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And this is episode

six, the Con Whisperer.

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Now, this episode is probably the

hardest, but to me the most important

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because we're going to go over all the

victims of his actions, both the animals

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and the humans, and the organizations

that he just conned to, to get his way.

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This episode,

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the, the next few episodes are gonna be

somewhat triggering because we are going

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to be discussing animal abuse, animal

cruelty, just the things that he did to

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these animals that did not observe the

fates that they, that they ended up with.

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And then also things

like domestic violence.

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And, you know, it's very important

to understand that the Link is

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real, the Link between interpersonal

violence and animal abuse.

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So we are going to be discussing

both the animals and the

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human victims of his actions.

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If you need to take a break, if it's

too triggering, take care of yourself.

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Just pause and come back.

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But in general, I feel that it is

really important to share these

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stories because these are the stories.

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These are the heroes, right?

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These animals, these victims,

these are the heroes that got

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him where he is imprisoned today.

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Blake Jordan, MVPC: My name is Blake

Jordan and my wife and I founded the Miami

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Valley Pit Crew about, uh, 13 years ago.

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We basically take Pit Bulls, German

Shepherds, actually any breed,

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but those are our two specialties

out of kill shelters, um, and

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rehab them and find them homes.

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I'm a foster based organization and

we mainly take medical cases, like

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severe medical cases, burns, gunshot

wounds, stabs, heartworm cases.

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Those are, are, those are our specialties.

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So that's what we do a lot of.

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Okay.

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And we work with shelters all over

the eastern, half the United States.

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Dr. G:

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Let's start with Chesty's story.

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How did you come about

knowing about Chesty?

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Blake Jordan, MVPC: Well, um, my wife and

one of her friends with another rescue

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here, local, got an ask for help, um, to

help feed some Great Danes that were part

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of a criminal case here in Dayton, Ohio.

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Um, they went down to ARC or

the Animal Resource Center here,

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delivered a whole bunch of food

and donations for those dogs.

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And one of the kennel staff took

my wife back into the police

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hold area and showed them Chesty.

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From the story that I gathered,

, the Dayton Police went on a,

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I think it was domestic call.

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Um, and Chesty was basically sleeping

under a bush outside of these folks'

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front door or by the porch of some sort.

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Um, got startled when Dayton PD nudged

him to see if he was alive or not.

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Um, when he jumped up, um, the

police officer shot him in the

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back, barely missed his spine,

and shattered his shoulder blade.

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When he was taken to ARC, with

him being a police case, they

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don't give any medical care.

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That is how we were

approached to take him.

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That was September 28th, 2013.

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We took him once he was released to us,

straight to our vet, our vet did a couple

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of surgeries, released him back to us,

and we rehabbed him to the point where he

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was able to be placed in a foster home.

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I wanna say probably through

mid-October, uh, maybe end of October,

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um, just as his gunshot wound was

healing, um, all the bone fragments

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had been removed, all that fun stuff.

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Steffen had applied to Foster for us.

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Um, not knowing much about him at that

point, 'cause he was still just a kid

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living in a beat, beat down, rundown

house in, in Marysville at that point.

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Um, went to his home and do what we do.

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We did the home check.

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We did the background check.

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Um, everything seemed

kosher at that point.

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Um, probably a month after that, I

think it was the eighth, maybe the

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7th of November, uh, 2020 or 2013.

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Um, he asked if he could adopt him.

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Absolutely.

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Uh, we let him adopt and it

was all downhill from there.

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Dr. G:

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So he was completely healed up by the

time he was that you released him, right?

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Yeah.

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Because that's one of the things

is like Steffen makes it sound like

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Blake Jordan, MVPC: absolutely not

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Dr. G:

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helped with the rehabilitation

and he was part of everything.

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Almost like he just railroaded you

guys out of the story of Chesty.

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Blake Jordan, MVPC: He absolutely did.

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And that was where he started that,

um, storyline after he adopted him.

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To help to get himself status.

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Um, and we argued and argued

and argued and pleaded for years

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for him to stop doing that, um,

because it wasn't the truth.

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Dr. G:

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How did him adopting Chesty affect Chesty?

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Blake Jordan, MVPC: Well.

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My biggest problem that I had, um, when

he started his bouncing around from

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shelter to shelter, um, in Northern Ohio

at this point, was he was using Chesty

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basically to do behavioral tests on

the dogs he was taking into his house.

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So he would take these, I won't

say vicious dogs, but dogs who have

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had bite records and behavioral

issues, and he would just dump them

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in the backyard with chesty and

shut the door to see what happened.

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That's, that's how he did his evals.

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He used Chesty basically as bait.

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Dr. G:

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It, it's kind of funny.

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As long as I

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worked with with Steffen,

I never met Chesty.

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Blake Jordan, MVPC: Really?

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Dr. G:

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Yeah, so I never actually got to meet him.

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I saw him on pictures, I saw him on

videos and that kind of stuff, but

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wonderful, as far as I know, I don't

know that I ever did meet him in person.

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Blake Jordan, MVPC: Beautiful dog.

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Beautiful inside and out.

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Um, just the, the amount of love

that Chesty had was just crazy.

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I can tell you that from day one.

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He was very manageable, even, even

with the gunshot wound, even with

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the agony of the post-surgery.

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He just wanted to be loved.

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That's, that was it.

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That was his thing.

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Dr. G:

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So how did, how did this whole thing

unfold as far as once he took him and

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he started taking notoriety with him?

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I know that you guys kind

of clashed about that.

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Absolutely.

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So how did that whole thing go on?

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Blake Jordan, MVPC: Um,

it was several of us.

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Um.

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That basically tried to call him

out, um, quite a bit saying, Hey, you

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know, that's not the story he's lying

about how he rehabilitated Chesty.

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Um, he had nothing to do with that.

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He basically housed Chesty for a month,

um, fed him and uh, then adopted him.

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And that was his involvement

with Chesty's rehabilitation.

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And we called him out on that a lot.

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And every time that he would make

a post on Facebook or try to do his

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YouTube thing that he was trying to get

up, um, we would always go on there.

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'cause e even, um, I, I forget, what

was the girl's name out of New York?

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Who was, uh, working for the newspaper?

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Uh,

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Dr. G:

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Katie Nelson, or, yep,

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Blake Jordan, MVPC: that's her.

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Um, he was attached to her pretty

heavy, and she was, she was putting a

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lot of misinformation out on his behalf

that I don't know if she knew about.

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Um, but every time she would post

an article or post a video, we

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would always basically interact

and say, Hey, that's not the story.

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That's not how that happened.

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We, we, as a rescue fundraised

for him, paid for the surgery.

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All Steffen did was feed the dog.

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Um, and every time we did that,

we'd get push back and threats.

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Dr. G:

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How, how bad did the threats get?

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Blake Jordan, MVPC: Um, the threats

got to a certain point, uh, I'd

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say about two years into it.

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Where, um, he sicked Gordon Shell on

myself, my organization, and my wife.

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Um.

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Physical threats, verbal threats,

basically telling us what huge pieces of

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shit we are and we're liars, and if we do,

if we keep it up, he would hunt us down

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and, and, and basically kick our asses.

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I, I openly invited him several

times to come to my home.

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He never showed.

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Dr. G:

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That doesn't surprise me.

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'cause I think that a

lot of it is just talk.

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Right.

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Just like the same way that

they pump themselves up about

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the, what they do for the dogs.

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Right.

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Right.

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No talk and no actual action.

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Blake Jordan, MVPC: Zero action.

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None.

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Um, they were, I can tell you

that the three of them, Luke

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included, were all about the press.

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Um, all about getting their pictures

out, all about building themselves up.

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And we can see where two of

those three are right now.

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KFox Investigates: It's

an update to a story.

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K Fox 14 investigates first uncovered

in 2019, the former director of the

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El Paso Humane Society admitted to

charges of fraud and theft in Ohio.

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K.

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Fox 14 Investigative reporter Estefania

Seyffert takes us back to how this

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story unraveled and what happens next.

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The last time we spoke with Westerman, he

denied all allegations made against him.

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I haven't had any person ever

ask me anything or question

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my, my honor and my integrity.

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December 27th, 2018, Luke Westerman,

who was the executive director of

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the Humane Society of El Paso at

the time was indicted with charges

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of theft and securities violations.

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Accused of ripping off some Ohio citizens

of about $700,000 over eight years.

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A week later on January 7th,

2019, he turned himself in and

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was booked into an Ohio jail.

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He was fired from the Humane

Society in El Paso The next day.

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The Humane Society announced a new

Chief Executive Officer, Deb Benedict.

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That same year in October, our

sister station WKEF in Dayton, Ohio,

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reported Westerman was indicted

in a second case, which included

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securities fraud, misrepresentation,

and theft from additional victims.

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Last week, Westerman pleaded guilty to

all 19 charges filed against him in Ohio.

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Prosecutors said he solicited at least

19 Ohioans to invest over $1 million

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into companies owned or controlled by

him, and used the money on personal

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expenses unrelated to the businesses.

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Dr. G:

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So did you guys try to get

chesty back at some point?

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Blake Jordan, MVPC: We, we tried

a lot, um, through the years, um,

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through the police departments,

through, um, we actually had some

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lawyer contact back and forth.

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Um, and when everything started going

down with act falling apart and the

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Ohio, the charges here in Ohio starting

to build up against him, when he moved

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to California, we actually got the

authorities involved out there as well.

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Dr. G:

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You did not get him back until

he got arrested, is that correct?

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Blake Jordan, MVPC: Correct.

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Um, we worked, uh.

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Not closely, but we worked in tandem

with the detectives here in Ohio, um,

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who put us in contact with his girlfriend

that he was, had his rehabilitation

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ranch with out in, out in the desert out

in California, um, to get Chesty back.

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Um, when we were approached and finally

got some information out of the girlfriend

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and the police department, uh, we found

out that he had, uh, basically dogs

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living in shacks out in the desert.

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And Chesty was one of those dogs,

and I believe at that point he

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was probably 12 or 13 years old.

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Dr. G:

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And I know that, you know,

there's a, there's a jail call

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from him to his girlfriend.

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And when, you know, while he was

in jail and she's just telling her

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how chesty doesn't react to her

and doesn't care about her or, or

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00:13:01,912 --> 00:13:05,152

whatever, like, it sounds like the,

there was just no relationship there.

230

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Blake Jordan, MVPC: That's kind of what

I understand as well, and I can tell

231

00:13:10,072 --> 00:13:17,662

you, um, that the interaction that I was

told about from my volunteer who we flew

232

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out to California to pick up Chesty, um.

233

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From what I understand, he was very

happy to see her and he hadn't interacted

234

00:13:25,477 --> 00:13:27,817

with her at all up until that point.

235

00:13:28,507 --> 00:13:34,147

So I'm not sure what the relationship

was between Steffen, Steffen's girlfriend

236

00:13:34,147 --> 00:13:40,147

and Chesty, but I can tell you that when

the dog got back here, um, he remembered

237

00:13:40,147 --> 00:13:43,682

me from all those years and he was

very happy to see myself and my wife.

238

00:13:45,922 --> 00:13:45,923

Dr. G:

239

00:13:45,923 --> 00:13:47,752

And how was, how was that reunion?

240

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Because like it had been

how many years about

241

00:13:51,562 --> 00:13:54,022

Blake Jordan, MVPC: It had

been like, what I think eight

242

00:13:54,022 --> 00:13:55,097

years, nine years at that point.

243

00:13:55,097 --> 00:13:55,098

Dr. G:

244

00:13:55,098 --> 00:13:55,347

Eight years, yeah.

245

00:13:56,242 --> 00:13:57,922

Blake Jordan, MVPC: So

it was, it was beautiful.

246

00:13:58,102 --> 00:14:04,192

Um, I was more intrigued by the

trip home and all the things that

247

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he got to see and experience.

248

00:14:06,202 --> 00:14:08,032

So that was, that was

the highlight for me.

249

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Um, he actually is currently living in

retirement with that volunteer and is

250

00:14:15,232 --> 00:14:17,332

just, couldn't be happier for him or her,

251

00:14:19,112 --> 00:14:19,113

Dr. G:

252

00:14:19,113 --> 00:14:21,602

He's just one of the lucky ones, right?

253

00:14:21,692 --> 00:14:21,962

Absolutely.

254

00:14:21,962 --> 00:14:23,057

'cause he actually made it alive.

255

00:14:23,837 --> 00:14:24,527

Blake Jordan, MVPC: Absolutely.

256

00:14:24,587 --> 00:14:30,407

Um, tho that is a, that's a hard

number to hit for, for any dogs in that

257

00:14:30,407 --> 00:14:31,937

came outta that situation with him.

258

00:14:32,237 --> 00:14:36,197

So the fact that he was able to

make it outta there alive, not get

259

00:14:36,197 --> 00:14:39,467

mauled with all of the bullshit that

he was put through is just amazing.

260

00:14:40,797 --> 00:14:40,798

Dr. G:

261

00:14:40,798 --> 00:14:44,967

People that I have been talking to

have been sharing how this, these.

262

00:14:45,327 --> 00:14:49,617

Experiences have changed the way that

they do rescue or they see rescue.

263

00:14:49,947 --> 00:14:53,637

How has he affected the way

that you guys do your thing?

264

00:14:54,567 --> 00:14:58,167

Blake Jordan, MVPC: We're a little more

diligent, but it's so far in the past now

265

00:14:58,257 --> 00:15:03,567

that whatever we did to adopt, to adapt

to it is just part of our daily now.

266

00:15:03,567 --> 00:15:07,947

So it's not really something that we,

we try not to dwell on too much anymore,

267

00:15:07,977 --> 00:15:09,447

but we, we definitely don't forget.

268

00:15:10,107 --> 00:15:13,827

Our, our biggest thing for the past

several years as this was going on,

269

00:15:13,827 --> 00:15:17,787

we, we stayed pretty low key about

it, but our biggest goal and biggest

270

00:15:17,787 --> 00:15:20,007

openness was getting Chesty back to us.

271

00:15:20,427 --> 00:15:23,547

And that was, I, that was our major

concern and that was the out outlook,

272

00:15:23,547 --> 00:15:26,997

the outcome that we wanted and

we're happy that, that it happened.

273

00:15:26,997 --> 00:15:28,617

So we were very fortunate.

274

00:15:29,367 --> 00:15:29,368

Dr. G:

275

00:15:29,368 --> 00:15:32,937

And I'm super excited that, that he

was able to, again, he, that he made

276

00:15:32,937 --> 00:15:34,857

it and that you guys got him back.

277

00:15:35,397 --> 00:15:36,177

Because it's amazing.

278

00:15:36,207 --> 00:15:39,627

He's, he's a good guy and

he deserves a good life.

279

00:15:39,957 --> 00:15:40,587

Blake Jordan, MVPC: Absolutely.

280

00:15:40,587 --> 00:15:41,547

And he's living it, so.

281

00:15:44,686 --> 00:15:48,165

DrG: Next is the story of Romeo, and

Romeo is a dog that he took in for

282

00:15:48,165 --> 00:15:52,096

both medical and behavioral issues,

and he just did not do right by him.

283

00:15:52,645 --> 00:15:52,646

Det. Jim Conroy:

284

00:15:52,646 --> 00:15:56,905

He had set Romeo up saying that he had

a cancer spread throughout his body and

285

00:15:56,905 --> 00:16:00,805

had to euthanize him when Romeo did not

have cancer spread throughout his body.

286

00:16:01,015 --> 00:16:05,335

He just had a simple tumor, uh, low

grade that wasn't going to spread, that

287

00:16:05,395 --> 00:16:06,865

all it needed to do was be removed.

288

00:16:06,865 --> 00:16:07,405

That was it.

289

00:16:08,005 --> 00:16:09,925

Uh, but he claimed he had it

throughout his whole body and

290

00:16:09,925 --> 00:16:12,565

had to euthanize, um, uh, Romeo.

291

00:16:12,565 --> 00:16:17,155

So that's, that's, you know, how it

would've in depth, you know, liar

292

00:16:17,365 --> 00:16:19,885

he was, is he, and he is smart too.

293

00:16:19,945 --> 00:16:20,665

I'll give him that.

294

00:16:20,665 --> 00:16:22,105

He's a very smart individual.

295

00:16:22,615 --> 00:16:26,935

Um, he would set these things, things

up months ahead of time, you know,

296

00:16:26,935 --> 00:16:30,205

so people who, you know, aren't

thinking like these things are the,

297

00:16:30,745 --> 00:16:32,335

they're not gonna figure that out.

298

00:16:32,605 --> 00:16:35,155

You know, he's been upfront with

him about this cancer for months.

299

00:16:35,585 --> 00:16:36,740

Melissa Chase: Would you state

your name for the record?

300

00:16:36,740 --> 00:16:37,020

Alex.

301

00:16:37,170 --> 00:16:37,940

Alex Armaly: Alex Armley.

302

00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,670

I took Romeo in from a coworker.

303

00:16:40,730 --> 00:16:43,010

I had him for a total about six months.

304

00:16:43,580 --> 00:16:46,700

And he lived with me as a dog of my own.

305

00:16:47,570 --> 00:16:50,810

He had a, well, I was

told a cyst on his leg.

306

00:16:51,470 --> 00:16:54,200

He had severe allergies

to the food he was on.

307

00:16:55,250 --> 00:16:57,050

He had never been to a vet before.

308

00:16:57,050 --> 00:17:00,480

He never had any shots, he lived

in a crate most of his life.

309

00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:02,040

He wasn't really let out much.

310

00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:05,150

I waited about two days after I got him.

311

00:17:05,150 --> 00:17:10,910

So I would say probably March 3rd, 2014,

and I took him to Rascal Animal Unit.

312

00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,410

I went there 'cause I knew he needed

shots and they would be cheaper there just

313

00:17:15,410 --> 00:17:17,210

to get started, his initial assessment.

314

00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,650

DrG: So Alex brought him in

to Rascal Animal Hospital.

315

00:17:21,650 --> 00:17:25,160

We did his vaccines, we did an

evaluation, and you know, a lot of

316

00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:29,570

people throw around the word cyst,

like every, every mass or tumor is a

317

00:17:29,570 --> 00:17:32,300

cyst and that's normally a misnomer.

318

00:17:32,300 --> 00:17:37,550

So the way to identify what was going

on was we did a fine needle aspirate

319

00:17:37,610 --> 00:17:42,830

in which we put a small needle into

the mass, took some cells, and then

320

00:17:42,890 --> 00:17:45,050

identified what the cells were about.

321

00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,380

And the results of that were

that it was a mast cell tumor.

322

00:17:48,410 --> 00:17:48,860

Now.

323

00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,550

The, the problems with a fine

needle aspirate is that it

324

00:17:52,550 --> 00:17:54,200

doesn't tell you what grade.

325

00:17:54,230 --> 00:17:56,390

It just tells you what cells are in there.

326

00:17:56,630 --> 00:18:00,290

However, it's a really good place

to start, especially by letting

327

00:18:00,290 --> 00:18:04,670

the owner know that it's not just

a cyst, it's not a benign process.

328

00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,430

It can potentially be a problem

that needs to be addressed.

329

00:18:08,179 --> 00:18:11,539

Alex Armaly: They took a sample of

his, the tumor on his leg to send,

330

00:18:11,539 --> 00:18:15,379

to get lab work done, to confirm it

was a cyst, like I was told, which it

331

00:18:15,379 --> 00:18:18,199

was not as well as an allergy test.

332

00:18:18,199 --> 00:18:20,119

He was severely allergic

to the food he was on.

333

00:18:21,144 --> 00:18:25,824

I would say maybe about a week and

a half after we went to Rascal,

334

00:18:25,914 --> 00:18:28,554

so maybe like mid-March 2014.

335

00:18:28,824 --> 00:18:29,274

Dr.

336

00:18:29,274 --> 00:18:34,854

Bader, She was the vet that myself and

all of my friends were very close with.

337

00:18:34,914 --> 00:18:39,384

We all took our pets to her, so I

took her, I took Romeo to her as well.

338

00:18:40,194 --> 00:18:40,195

Dr. Cheryl Bater, DVM:

339

00:18:40,195 --> 00:18:43,104

I am Cheryl Bater and I'm a

doctor of veterinary medicine.

340

00:18:43,104 --> 00:18:45,624

I see small animals in general practice.

341

00:18:46,104 --> 00:18:47,624

DrG: One thing that I

have to say about Dr.

342

00:18:47,624 --> 00:18:51,944

Bater is she has been doing this for a

really long time and she is so thorough.

343

00:18:51,944 --> 00:18:53,204

She is an amazing veterinarian.

344

00:18:53,709 --> 00:18:57,129

And I am really happy that

that's where Romeo went.

345

00:18:57,549 --> 00:19:00,909

Uh, Alex already had a relationship

with her, so it makes sense that she

346

00:19:00,909 --> 00:19:02,979

would go there for follow-up care.

347

00:19:03,309 --> 00:19:08,349

But in the, in the end, in the trial,

it was very helpful because Dr.

348

00:19:08,349 --> 00:19:13,269

Bader was able to participate as, as

an expert witness, but also as somebody

349

00:19:13,269 --> 00:19:15,434

who had firsthand knowledge of Romeo.

350

00:19:16,198 --> 00:19:16,199

Dr. Cheryl Bater, DVM:

351

00:19:16,199 --> 00:19:22,198

Romeo was a patient of mine, and, uh,

Alex Armley, his owner, brought him to

352

00:19:22,198 --> 00:19:27,118

me for examination for a mass that he

had on him, so he was a patient of mine.

353

00:19:27,333 --> 00:19:34,563

So he had, uh, a lump on his, uh, right

rear leg that she wanted me to evaluate.

354

00:19:34,563 --> 00:19:38,763

Apparently he had been, um, had this

and she wanted my opinion 'cause

355

00:19:38,763 --> 00:19:40,413

she knew me from her other dog.

356

00:19:40,413 --> 00:19:43,113

Alex Armaly: I believe a cell

mast tumor is what I was told.

357

00:19:43,113 --> 00:19:43,983

A low grade.

358

00:19:44,598 --> 00:19:48,468

Um, I believe x-rays were also done

on his chest to confirm it was not

359

00:19:48,468 --> 00:19:50,808

metastatic and it has not spread.

360

00:19:51,108 --> 00:19:51,109

Dr. Cheryl Bater, DVM:

361

00:19:51,109 --> 00:19:51,943

A Mast cell tumor.

362

00:19:51,943 --> 00:19:56,713

Mast cells are normally in the body,

respond in the case of, they're

363

00:19:56,713 --> 00:19:58,393

part of the immune system response.

364

00:19:58,633 --> 00:20:05,053

So a, a tumor that arises from a

mast cell, um, has characteristics

365

00:20:05,053 --> 00:20:06,613

of that that are exaggerated.

366

00:20:06,613 --> 00:20:12,493

So a mast cell tumor arises

from abnormal mast cells.

367

00:20:12,698 --> 00:20:15,968

At the time I saw him, it

was, uh, pendulous, like

368

00:20:15,968 --> 00:20:17,828

it was on a pedicle almost.

369

00:20:18,068 --> 00:20:23,528

So it looked like it sort of was hanging,

it was about the size of a lemon perhaps.

370

00:20:23,828 --> 00:20:27,818

Um, I would say it was

five to five centimeters.

371

00:20:28,118 --> 00:20:32,268

So what I presented to Alex, which

I present to all my clients, is a,

372

00:20:33,138 --> 00:20:36,978

um, there's a spectrum that we can

offer whenever we have a tumor.

373

00:20:36,978 --> 00:20:41,478

And this was newly, he was newly

adopted, uh, at that time too, is

374

00:20:41,478 --> 00:20:42,678

kind of the good, better, best.

375

00:20:42,678 --> 00:20:44,028

So these are our options.

376

00:20:44,028 --> 00:20:48,258

And I said the first thing we wanna do,

all we had was a fine needle aspirate.

377

00:20:48,528 --> 00:20:53,628

And a fine needle aspirate gives

us an idea of, of what, what

378

00:20:53,628 --> 00:20:58,338

family of tumors it's in, but not

what the grade is of the tumor.

379

00:20:58,578 --> 00:21:04,788

So I offered her estimates for diagnostics

to assess him, uh, to see is there any

380

00:21:04,788 --> 00:21:08,658

evidence that it's spread anywhere and

what's his general health if we're gonna

381

00:21:08,658 --> 00:21:10,968

consider surgery to remove that tumor.

382

00:21:10,968 --> 00:21:12,348

He also needed to be neutered.

383

00:21:12,618 --> 00:21:16,548

She wanted to think about it, but she

came back, um, and decided that she wanted

384

00:21:16,548 --> 00:21:18,348

to do those diagnostics and came back.

385

00:21:18,438 --> 00:21:19,428

May 15th.

386

00:21:19,428 --> 00:21:19,848

May six.

387

00:21:19,848 --> 00:21:19,998

Yeah.

388

00:21:19,998 --> 00:21:23,268

She came back for, uh, to do

the diagnostics and that's

389

00:21:23,268 --> 00:21:27,048

where we did pre-anesthesia

diagnostics to look at his health.

390

00:21:27,288 --> 00:21:29,498

She elected to start with

that, to see where we were.

391

00:21:29,498 --> 00:21:33,398

'cause if we already had evidence

of metastasis from what was

392

00:21:33,398 --> 00:21:36,848

potentially a malignant tumor,

then she wasn't gonna proceed.

393

00:21:37,178 --> 00:21:39,968

But there was no evidence

of spread at all anywhere.

394

00:21:40,028 --> 00:21:44,918

So I thought he was a really, really

good candidate to, for it to be, uh, low

395

00:21:44,918 --> 00:21:48,458

grade or, and to be able to successfully

take it off and be done with it.

396

00:21:48,508 --> 00:21:50,548

Alex Armaly: He was four

years old when I got him.

397

00:21:50,938 --> 00:21:52,258

Um, extremely loving.

398

00:21:52,258 --> 00:21:55,618

You could tell he hadn't

really been loved much before.

399

00:21:55,618 --> 00:21:58,198

So when I gave him a little bit

of attention, it went a long way.

400

00:21:59,158 --> 00:22:02,818

Um, he got very attached to me

and very clingy, which I think is

401

00:22:02,818 --> 00:22:05,818

what resulted in him and my dog

not getting along down the road.

402

00:22:06,748 --> 00:22:11,308

DrG: In addition to having that mass,

Romeo also was not neutered, and that

403

00:22:11,308 --> 00:22:15,718

presented a problem because dogs that are

not neutered tend to be more aggressive,

404

00:22:15,718 --> 00:22:20,398

have more behavioral issues, and Alex

had another dog, and the two of them

405

00:22:20,398 --> 00:22:25,133

were having issues probably because of

Romeo's dominance and then her other dog

406

00:22:25,478 --> 00:22:28,118

had already established

that that was his home.

407

00:22:28,418 --> 00:22:33,218

So not only was the cost of surgery

a concern for her, but in the long

408

00:22:33,218 --> 00:22:36,728

term, having two dogs that were not

gonna get along with each other and

409

00:22:36,728 --> 00:22:37,663

could potentially hurt each other.

410

00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,830

Alex Armaly: I started asking

around if anyone knew of shelters or

411

00:22:40,830 --> 00:22:42,390

someone that could help me take him.

412

00:22:42,930 --> 00:22:51,360

Um, I posted on a couple animal pages,

um, and then I was directed to ACT Ohio.

413

00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,770

I was hoping to get him medical

treatment as well as someone

414

00:22:55,770 --> 00:22:57,510

to just give him a new home.

415

00:22:58,860 --> 00:23:01,290

Jennifer Kasouf: She had taken

him in from a friend who couldn't

416

00:23:01,290 --> 00:23:02,940

take care of him anymore.

417

00:23:03,180 --> 00:23:06,600

Um, there was some aggression

issues between Romeo and her dog.

418

00:23:07,530 --> 00:23:13,620

And Romeo had a large lump on his leg

that she wasn't able to really care

419

00:23:13,620 --> 00:23:16,350

for and was looking for rescue for him.

420

00:23:16,770 --> 00:23:21,695

I had asked Steffen if we could help

rehab the dog and try to figure out

421

00:23:21,695 --> 00:23:25,749

what was going on with his leg, and

he was just gonna take the dog in, try

422

00:23:25,749 --> 00:23:29,919

to rehab him and find him new home and

see what we could do about vet care.

423

00:23:30,444 --> 00:23:33,594

Alex Armaly: I told him about how

I got him, about the dogs fighting

424

00:23:33,594 --> 00:23:35,844

after that last month or so.

425

00:23:36,234 --> 00:23:40,374

Um, his health, me going to the vets

and getting information as to what

426

00:23:40,374 --> 00:23:43,434

was going on with his health and

just what I had hoped for for him.

427

00:23:44,469 --> 00:23:47,799

I couldn't afford having it

done at the time, and also the,

428

00:23:47,799 --> 00:23:49,599

the fighting between the two.

429

00:23:50,174 --> 00:23:53,714

He said he could get him the surgeries

he needed and help him with his

430

00:23:53,714 --> 00:23:57,764

aggression and other dog being around

other dogs and find him another home.

431

00:23:58,604 --> 00:24:03,134

I don't know who told me, but I believe

one of them told me that everything was

432

00:24:03,224 --> 00:24:07,694

essentially pro bono because of their

organization with Rascal and the vet.

433

00:24:07,994 --> 00:24:10,334

And they just took him and

they could do it for free.

434

00:24:10,900 --> 00:24:14,470

DrG: It is really funny that he told

her that the service would be for free

435

00:24:14,470 --> 00:24:19,460

because it goes along to imply that

he didn't really have any interest in

436

00:24:19,460 --> 00:24:24,125

paying us back, just running up a bill

that he thought he could just write off.

437

00:24:24,799 --> 00:24:26,839

Alex Armaly: I felt very

confident that he could help him.

438

00:24:27,409 --> 00:24:30,379

He was very positive and

seemed excited to help him.

439

00:24:30,379 --> 00:24:31,909

And hopeful.

440

00:24:32,399 --> 00:24:35,999

Melissa Chase: Did you sign any kind

of transfer papers, any documents?

441

00:24:36,179 --> 00:24:36,869

Alex Armaly: No, I did not.

442

00:24:37,649 --> 00:24:39,149

I believe he was still my dog.

443

00:24:39,659 --> 00:24:42,749

Um, he was just helping

find him another home.

444

00:24:43,355 --> 00:24:45,155

Jennifer Kasouf: I think in the

beginning it was more of a concern

445

00:24:45,265 --> 00:24:49,115

with the training and just making

sure that he could be placed.

446

00:24:50,370 --> 00:24:51,870

Before it was a medical thing.

447

00:24:52,380 --> 00:24:54,690

We were completely unaware it was cancer.

448

00:24:55,140 --> 00:24:58,715

Alex Armaly: As far as I know, he took

him about two days later to have the

449

00:24:58,715 --> 00:25:03,185

surgery done, um, which was successful,

neutering him and removing the tumor.

450

00:25:03,635 --> 00:25:07,385

And then from then on, I, I

believed that he was cancer free

451

00:25:07,385 --> 00:25:09,605

and he was healthy and good to go.

452

00:25:10,355 --> 00:25:15,275

I was told that it was not a metastatic

tumor and that it would not spread and

453

00:25:15,275 --> 00:25:16,715

if they removed it, he would be fine.

454

00:25:18,035 --> 00:25:21,155

Melissa Chase: To the best of your

knowledge, where did Romeo's surgery take

455

00:25:21,155 --> 00:25:21,635

Alex Armaly: place?

456

00:25:21,875 --> 00:25:24,125

As far as I know it took place at Rascal.

457

00:25:24,718 --> 00:25:25,858

Melissa Chase: And what's the message?

458

00:25:26,098 --> 00:25:27,748

Alex Armaly: Tumor and testicles are gone.

459

00:25:28,190 --> 00:25:29,120

That's the next day.

460

00:25:29,794 --> 00:25:30,514

My baby?

461

00:25:30,514 --> 00:25:31,654

I have tears again.

462

00:25:32,869 --> 00:25:35,539

I'm so happy for him to finally

get the tumor taken care of.

463

00:25:35,629 --> 00:25:37,459

I wish I could be there to comfort him.

464

00:25:37,519 --> 00:25:40,399

Let me know about the additional

tumors they found and kiss him for me.

465

00:25:40,713 --> 00:25:41,688

Thank you so much.

466

00:25:41,688 --> 00:25:42,258

He looks great.

467

00:25:42,258 --> 00:25:43,398

How is his leg healing?

468

00:25:44,658 --> 00:25:45,858

You bet he's a champ.

469

00:25:45,918 --> 00:25:47,598

Wasn't even limping the morning after.

470

00:25:47,598 --> 00:25:49,038

He's at Rascal until Monday.

471

00:25:50,178 --> 00:25:50,568

Awesome.

472

00:25:50,568 --> 00:25:51,918

That makes me happy to hear.

473

00:25:52,468 --> 00:25:57,223

DrG: Now remember he just told

Alex that we did the surgery

474

00:25:57,253 --> 00:25:58,963

at Rascal Animal Hospital.

475

00:25:59,323 --> 00:26:00,583

So keep that in mind.

476

00:26:01,264 --> 00:26:01,894

Melissa Chase: Doctor.

477

00:26:02,044 --> 00:26:02,794

Uh, good afternoon.

478

00:26:02,794 --> 00:26:04,054

Would you state your name for the record?

479

00:26:04,894 --> 00:26:04,895

Dr. Amy Welker:

480

00:26:04,895 --> 00:26:06,194

Amy Lynn Welker.

481

00:26:06,784 --> 00:26:08,434

Melissa Chase: And

doctor, are you employed?

482

00:26:09,154 --> 00:26:09,155

Dr. Amy Welker:

483

00:26:09,155 --> 00:26:13,234

Um, I'm no longer employed with Union

County Humane Society, but I was

484

00:26:13,714 --> 00:26:17,104

just recently up till October 2023?

485

00:26:17,104 --> 00:26:24,769

He was a pit bull type, male, blue

color, and five-ish years old.

486

00:26:25,609 --> 00:26:32,419

I neutered him that day and removed a

tumor, actually two tumors as it turned

487

00:26:32,419 --> 00:26:35,569

out, and, um, sent them for a biopsy.

488

00:26:36,559 --> 00:26:42,189

I sent both, at least parts

of both in to be evaluated by

489

00:26:42,189 --> 00:26:44,559

the pathologist at IDEXX lab.

490

00:26:45,399 --> 00:26:51,309

They were Mast cell tumors, and

it had a mitotic index which

491

00:26:51,369 --> 00:26:54,519

evaluated basically the prognosis.

492

00:26:54,519 --> 00:26:58,689

I believe he went home as soon as

he was awake enough to go home.

493

00:26:59,559 --> 00:27:00,729

DrG: So you got that, right?

494

00:27:00,909 --> 00:27:05,604

So he tells Alex that we did

the surgery at Rascal Animal

495

00:27:05,604 --> 00:27:06,894

Hospital, which is not true.

496

00:27:07,644 --> 00:27:08,934

It is absolutely not true.

497

00:27:08,934 --> 00:27:09,234

Dr.

498

00:27:09,234 --> 00:27:12,204

Welker at the Union County

Humane Society did the surgery.

499

00:27:12,204 --> 00:27:14,634

She removed the mass that

Alex was concerned about.

500

00:27:14,634 --> 00:27:15,694

She found another mass.

501

00:27:15,714 --> 00:27:17,754

She removed that and she neutered him.

502

00:27:17,994 --> 00:27:22,464

And then what he did was after

surgery, he brought him over to Rascal

503

00:27:22,464 --> 00:27:26,184

Animal Hospital for hospitalization,

but really more for boarding.

504

00:27:26,454 --> 00:27:31,074

And he was there for about four to five

days, which was not really necessary.

505

00:27:31,164 --> 00:27:31,344

Right.

506

00:27:32,169 --> 00:27:34,659

Most animals, most patients

are released to their owner,

507

00:27:34,659 --> 00:27:35,799

and the owner takes him home.

508

00:27:36,039 --> 00:27:41,409

So at that time, I did not think about

why he needed to hospitalize or board him.

509

00:27:41,949 --> 00:27:44,079

Now, hindsight is 2020.

510

00:27:44,139 --> 00:27:49,119

He just wanted somewhere to just shove

that dog for several days until he

511

00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,959

could figure out what to do with him,

especially since he was dog aggressive.

512

00:27:53,317 --> 00:27:53,318

Dr. Cheryl Bater, DVM:

513

00:27:53,318 --> 00:27:55,177

Grade one is like getting an A on a test.

514

00:27:55,207 --> 00:27:55,597

Yay.

515

00:27:55,627 --> 00:27:58,237

This is the, the best we

can have and the best idea.

516

00:27:58,897 --> 00:28:05,317

Um, so if it's a, a low grade, uh,

many of the oncologists now will say,

517

00:28:05,377 --> 00:28:07,327

no, no additional treatment needed.

518

00:28:07,327 --> 00:28:10,537

Just observe it and if it comes back,

or you can go back and take a wider

519

00:28:10,537 --> 00:28:12,727

margin if you want a little extra.

520

00:28:13,087 --> 00:28:18,277

But for most dogs, if it's a low

grade, no additional therapies needed.

521

00:28:19,237 --> 00:28:24,187

So, uh, the clinical assessment at the

bottom, the pathologist, uh, stated that

522

00:28:24,187 --> 00:28:28,777

based on what the pathologist said, it

was expected to have a very, very low

523

00:28:28,777 --> 00:28:35,167

risk, um, of shortening his life at all,

uh, in a very low risk of metastasis or

524

00:28:35,167 --> 00:28:37,447

spread to otherwise parts of his body.

525

00:28:38,047 --> 00:28:42,127

Um, and once you have that grade.

526

00:28:42,782 --> 00:28:50,462

And the behavior, and then knowing what

I knew about seeing Romeo then is highly

527

00:28:50,462 --> 00:28:56,582

improbable that, that that low grade

tumor would have become aggressive.

528

00:28:56,582 --> 00:28:58,562

They don't become grade threes.

529

00:28:58,892 --> 00:29:02,912

A grade one isn't going

to become a grade three.

530

00:29:03,392 --> 00:29:03,932

Um.

531

00:29:04,987 --> 00:29:10,597

So it was highly improbable that there

was dissemination of that tumor in his

532

00:29:10,597 --> 00:29:15,067

body that would cause him to be premature

to prematurely die for any reason.

533

00:29:15,537 --> 00:29:17,997

Alex Armaly: I think he checked

in with me here and there to send

534

00:29:17,997 --> 00:29:22,887

updates, but overall, it was about

two weeks later when I got notified

535

00:29:22,887 --> 00:29:24,027

that he had been put to sleep.

536

00:29:25,182 --> 00:29:25,667

Jennifer Kasouf: I was home.

537

00:29:26,667 --> 00:29:30,507

Um, right afterwards that Romeo

had cancer and was put down.

538

00:29:31,407 --> 00:29:35,907

I was confused how a dog could be put

down from cancer that quickly because,

539

00:29:35,907 --> 00:29:40,647

in my experience, pathology and

biopsies take a long time to come back.

540

00:29:40,917 --> 00:29:44,187

They're just, they're

not done within 24 hours.

541

00:29:44,847 --> 00:29:49,287

Are you aware, Jennifer, how Alex

Armley found out about Romeo?

542

00:29:49,863 --> 00:29:53,223

Uh, I sent her a text message

or a Facebook message.

543

00:29:53,613 --> 00:29:58,113

Not word for word, but I had just

explained her that, um, Romeo had

544

00:29:58,113 --> 00:30:00,543

to be euthanized due to cancer.

545

00:30:01,858 --> 00:30:05,068

Alex Armaly: They took him for a

follow up and there had been cancer

546

00:30:05,068 --> 00:30:08,818

that spread through his whole body,

so aggressively radiation and nothing

547

00:30:08,818 --> 00:30:12,508

else would help, so they put him down

before he felt any pain and suffered.

548

00:30:13,663 --> 00:30:16,813

I was at lunch for my birthday with

the guy I was dating at the time.

549

00:30:17,493 --> 00:30:19,563

I was hysterical and

we had to leave lunch.

550

00:30:20,017 --> 00:30:22,537

Melissa Chase: Would you read into

the record what you wrote about Romeo?

551

00:30:23,167 --> 00:30:23,917

Alex Armaly: Today sucks.

552

00:30:23,917 --> 00:30:24,847

I'll love you forever.

553

00:30:24,907 --> 00:30:26,767

Romeo, rest peacefully sweet boy.

554

00:30:27,482 --> 00:30:31,352

So this is where we part my friend,

and you'll run on around the bend,

555

00:30:31,922 --> 00:30:33,812

gone from sight, not from mind.

556

00:30:34,382 --> 00:30:35,372

New pleasures there.

557

00:30:35,372 --> 00:30:36,272

You'll surely find.

558

00:30:37,322 --> 00:30:39,602

Your place I hold, but you'll be missed.

559

00:30:39,842 --> 00:30:41,762

The first stroke to the nose I kissed.

560

00:30:43,982 --> 00:30:47,917

And as you journey to your final rest,

take with you this, I love you best.

561

00:30:48,727 --> 00:30:53,742

DrG: So he picks up Romeo

from us on August 12th.

562

00:30:55,332 --> 00:30:56,802

The dog is doing fine, right?

563

00:30:56,802 --> 00:30:59,892

It has had his medications,

pain, pain control and all of

564

00:30:59,892 --> 00:31:01,352

that stuff, and he takes him.

565

00:31:01,662 --> 00:31:02,892

We didn't do the surgery.

566

00:31:02,892 --> 00:31:05,652

We did not send the biopsy, so

we didn't have that information.

567

00:31:05,922 --> 00:31:10,212

So then fast forward to the

28th, he sends a text saying

568

00:31:10,767 --> 00:31:16,287

that Romeo's information came back and

that the tumor has spread and that it's

569

00:31:16,287 --> 00:31:20,637

really malignant and really aggressive,

and that, you know, dog's gonna suffer.

570

00:31:20,637 --> 00:31:24,297

And with him being dog aggressive,

it's not fair to keep him in a crate.

571

00:31:24,717 --> 00:31:28,977

And basically saying that, you

know, quality of life is poor

572

00:31:29,037 --> 00:31:30,477

and he needs to euthanize him.

573

00:31:30,917 --> 00:31:37,037

However, this was all a lie because

he never received anything from

574

00:31:37,097 --> 00:31:41,087

any veterinarian saying that the

cancer had spread, that he had

575

00:31:41,087 --> 00:31:43,847

metastasis, and actually the.

576

00:31:44,477 --> 00:31:48,617

The pathology on the mass came back

as a grade one mast cell tumor,

577

00:31:48,947 --> 00:31:53,537

which is the lowest grade, and they

usually have an excellent prognosis.

578

00:31:54,475 --> 00:31:54,476

Dr. Cheryl Bater, DVM:

579

00:31:54,476 --> 00:31:58,435

There, there was no documentation of any

veterinarian that said, Hey, this, this

580

00:31:58,435 --> 00:32:01,315

dog looks like we have a spread of cancer.

581

00:32:01,825 --> 00:32:06,505

Uh, there was no veterinary assessment

that said, um, somebody, there

582

00:32:06,505 --> 00:32:08,005

must be another cancer somewhere.

583

00:32:08,005 --> 00:32:09,355

Somebody threw us a zinger.

584

00:32:09,355 --> 00:32:13,555

There was nothing that indicated

that a veterinarian assessed him

585

00:32:13,555 --> 00:32:15,865

to have metastatic cancer anywhere.

586

00:32:17,755 --> 00:32:18,955

Melissa Chase: So what was your

conclusion with respect to the

587

00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,025

euthanization decision of Romeo?

588

00:32:21,625 --> 00:32:21,626

Dr. Cheryl Bater, DVM:

589

00:32:21,626 --> 00:32:23,485

I think it was tragic.

590

00:32:23,485 --> 00:32:26,215

It was, it was, it was tragic.

591

00:32:26,215 --> 00:32:26,905

It was sad.

592

00:32:26,905 --> 00:32:27,655

It was heartbreaking.

593

00:32:27,655 --> 00:32:30,325

Literally when I read it, I was

like, it tightened my chest.

594

00:32:30,325 --> 00:32:33,235

I'm like, it was a grade one tumor.

595

00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,785

It, it was unnecessary

and tragic, in my opinion.

596

00:32:39,405 --> 00:32:43,785

DrG: This case is one that is really

upsetting because whenever a pet

597

00:32:43,785 --> 00:32:48,465

owner brings you their, their dog

or cat or rabbit or what may be,

598

00:32:48,765 --> 00:32:53,205

and tells you, you know, this is the

medical history, this is the story.

599

00:32:53,205 --> 00:32:56,655

This is what has happened, and

this is my pet's quality of life.

600

00:32:56,955 --> 00:32:59,745

That's sometimes that's all the

information that you have and you

601

00:32:59,745 --> 00:33:01,785

have to make a decision based on that.

602

00:33:02,025 --> 00:33:03,705

And at that point we had just.

603

00:33:04,380 --> 00:33:05,670

Started working with him.

604

00:33:05,790 --> 00:33:10,530

So he comes in and spins this

story about how the dog had cancer.

605

00:33:10,530 --> 00:33:13,770

We knew that it was a mast cell

tumor, so that part made sense.

606

00:33:14,070 --> 00:33:19,650

But he spins how the dog had this

horrible cancer and it has metastasized,

607

00:33:19,710 --> 00:33:21,810

and the dog has a poor quality of life.

608

00:33:21,870 --> 00:33:25,920

So the best thing for the dog at that

point would've been euthanasia if that

609

00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,220

was true, but unfortunately it wasn't.

610

00:33:29,310 --> 00:33:30,180

And like Dr.

611

00:33:30,180 --> 00:33:33,390

Bader said, it was just

unnecessary and it was tragic.

612

00:33:36,657 --> 00:33:42,757

One of the dogs that he had for a long

time and he made a ton of publicity

613

00:33:42,757 --> 00:33:44,857

out of, was Belle Belle the Bait Dog.

614

00:33:45,607 --> 00:33:52,927

And it's, it's amazing how he

turned he, her story and he

615

00:33:53,107 --> 00:33:54,787

took advantage of her issues.

616

00:33:55,192 --> 00:34:02,332

To then create publicity and fundraise

and even make a book about the hotdog man.

617

00:34:02,702 --> 00:34:03,932

Ed Jameson: My name's Ed Jameson.

618

00:34:03,932 --> 00:34:07,142

Um, at the time I was the Chief

Animal Control Officer for the city of

619

00:34:07,142 --> 00:34:09,027

Cleveland, Ohio's Animal Care and Control.

620

00:34:09,447 --> 00:34:11,437

DrG: How you came to

get possession of Belle?

621

00:34:11,456 --> 00:34:12,657

Like what was her backstory?

622

00:34:13,917 --> 00:34:16,556

Ed Jameson: It was an

injured, injured stray call.

623

00:34:16,617 --> 00:34:21,117

Um, and the dog had major, major

medical, um, particularly in the face.

624

00:34:21,117 --> 00:34:25,286

It definitely had been in some type

of a, of a fight and had got the, not

625

00:34:25,286 --> 00:34:26,847

the good end of the, of the fight.

626

00:34:26,907 --> 00:34:32,097

And so we rushed the dog to emergency vet

care, which, um, we were able to get that.

627

00:34:32,712 --> 00:34:36,042

And then we had very little isolation

areas in that, in that old kennel in

628

00:34:36,042 --> 00:34:37,542

Cleveland, which is no longer in use.

629

00:34:37,542 --> 00:34:41,292

But, um, she was in that room, the

one room we were able to isolate

630

00:34:41,292 --> 00:34:44,411

and just had all kinds of stents

and stitches and things like that.

631

00:34:44,891 --> 00:34:46,992

Um, and was really sweet to humans.

632

00:34:46,992 --> 00:34:51,417

Need to say in that situation, it

was a very noisy, chaotic shelter.

633

00:34:51,806 --> 00:34:54,987

It appeared to us that she had animal

aggression, but we also couldn't do

634

00:34:54,987 --> 00:34:58,467

any real, she couldn't do playgroups

'cause of her medical condition,

635

00:34:58,467 --> 00:35:01,557

but any dog walked by the cage and

she, she totally lost her mind.

636

00:35:01,557 --> 00:35:03,642

So, um, reached out to Mr.

637

00:35:03,642 --> 00:35:04,077

Baldwin.

638

00:35:04,497 --> 00:35:07,887

Um, 'cause 'cause other than that,

she was a, she was a great dog.

639

00:35:08,217 --> 00:35:10,167

Steffen Baldwin: So we got the call

from the Cleveland Animal Control.

640

00:35:10,317 --> 00:35:13,437

Um, they, we were the only group that

they trusted to take this dog because

641

00:35:13,437 --> 00:35:16,197

of her dog issues, because of her

fear and what she had gone through.

642

00:35:16,481 --> 00:35:17,651

DrG: Is there any truth to that?

643

00:35:17,997 --> 00:35:20,907

Ed Jameson: I didn't know him to

know how much I could or couldn't.

644

00:35:20,907 --> 00:35:25,212

I knew that he at least had, um,

said that, you know, and had some

645

00:35:25,212 --> 00:35:27,252

success, especially with bully breeds.

646

00:35:27,832 --> 00:35:30,292

Um, being able to, to get them

in, you know, there, there's.

647

00:35:31,902 --> 00:35:34,482

I didn't know him well enough to say

that he was the only person there.

648

00:35:34,482 --> 00:35:37,062

There's very few people that

actually can responsibly take, you

649

00:35:37,062 --> 00:35:39,972

know, animals in that condition to

begin with, but he was one who had

650

00:35:39,972 --> 00:35:41,892

shown some type some success, so.

651

00:35:42,456 --> 00:35:43,866

Steffen Baldwin: Bell

came to us from Cleveland.

652

00:35:43,866 --> 00:35:46,746

I got a call from the dog warden up

in Cleveland, the chief dog warden.

653

00:35:47,076 --> 00:35:50,616

And, uh, they had found her, uh, through

part of an investigation where they're

654

00:35:50,616 --> 00:35:52,356

looking at dog fighting organizations.

655

00:35:52,386 --> 00:35:55,356

And, uh, she is what you

typically know as a bait dog.

656

00:35:55,626 --> 00:36:01,026

DrG: So did any of your staff say

that they instructed Stefan that

657

00:36:01,476 --> 00:36:05,586

Bell had been from a dog fighting

case or an investigation or anything

658

00:36:05,586 --> 00:36:09,366

that would've left him to start

doing all that advertising for her?

659

00:36:10,116 --> 00:36:12,636

Ed Jameson: No, maybe, maybe

that, Hey, we are looking into it.

660

00:36:12,636 --> 00:36:17,586

She, again, it was obvious she got her

butt kicked by a most likely dog, um,

661

00:36:17,586 --> 00:36:21,456

in the city of Cleveland, but there was

zero evidence of anything organized,

662

00:36:21,576 --> 00:36:24,096

like literally zero evidence of that.

663

00:36:24,456 --> 00:36:27,606

So we, we never talked like that

internally without there actually

664

00:36:27,606 --> 00:36:29,376

being some type of facts to back it up.

665

00:36:29,646 --> 00:36:32,051

Is it a true statement to say that

Bell probably was in a dog fight?

666

00:36:32,706 --> 00:36:33,126

True.

667

00:36:33,846 --> 00:36:36,546

Is it true to say there's any evidence

that it was an organized dog fight

668

00:36:36,546 --> 00:36:39,606

and anything different than just

two loose dogs in the streets of

669

00:36:39,606 --> 00:36:41,256

Cleveland tussling with each other?

670

00:36:41,826 --> 00:36:42,636

Nothing.

671

00:36:42,636 --> 00:36:43,446

Nothing more than that.

672

00:36:43,446 --> 00:36:46,776

And they said you, you knew Bell,

she was spicy around other animals.

673

00:36:46,776 --> 00:36:48,156

There was no question about that.

674

00:36:48,156 --> 00:36:49,746

The sweetest thing with humans.

675

00:36:50,066 --> 00:36:54,176

DrG: My experience with Belle was, uh, as

you say, she was super sweet with people,

676

00:36:54,176 --> 00:36:59,066

but she would see another dog and she

would just go crazy, and she was so small

677

00:36:59,096 --> 00:37:04,796

that she picked fights that she could

not, you know, hold, hold her into, I, I

678

00:37:04,796 --> 00:37:06,981

compare her to a chihuahua right there.

679

00:37:06,981 --> 00:37:06,991

Yeah.

680

00:37:06,991 --> 00:37:09,806

Like the angry chihuahua

that sees another dog.

681

00:37:09,836 --> 00:37:14,156

And it doesn't matter how big the dog is,

it wants to go after it, but it's gonna

682

00:37:14,156 --> 00:37:16,256

lose because it's just not big enough.

683

00:37:16,726 --> 00:37:18,916

Ed Jameson: That was very inappropriate

and that that was something, I

684

00:37:18,916 --> 00:37:22,456

mean I saw that, um, I, if I'm

not mistaken, I think I was out on

685

00:37:22,456 --> 00:37:23,896

the road when he actually came in.

686

00:37:23,896 --> 00:37:28,996

So my team actually released the dog

to him and before I even made it back

687

00:37:28,996 --> 00:37:32,776

to the kennel, I saw some notification

pop up on my phone and he was like,

688

00:37:32,776 --> 00:37:36,196

Facebook liveing it only a couple

minutes out of being outta the shelter.

689

00:37:36,586 --> 00:37:38,746

I remember thinking, and this

is great for this dog, but yeah,

690

00:37:38,746 --> 00:37:40,186

if there is actually anybody.

691

00:37:40,936 --> 00:37:43,456

That, that there is something

nefarious going on and they see

692

00:37:43,456 --> 00:37:45,046

this, it just drives 'em underground.

693

00:37:45,046 --> 00:37:48,106

You, you literally will lose the

case, right, right then and there.

694

00:37:48,346 --> 00:37:51,616

Um, again, that anybody knows

anything about investigations, forget

695

00:37:51,616 --> 00:37:53,206

about even sensationalizing of it.

696

00:37:53,206 --> 00:37:54,736

Hey, I understand how fundraising works.

697

00:37:54,736 --> 00:37:58,576

There'll be a time and a place you

could fundraise not six or seven minutes

698

00:37:58,576 --> 00:38:02,116

after leaving the shelter, when I told

you that we're, we are looking into it.

699

00:38:02,116 --> 00:38:06,136

So had there been a case that would've

absolutely harmed, um, harmed the case.

700

00:38:07,621 --> 00:38:10,591

Steffen Baldwin: And, uh, she is what

you typically know as a bait dog.

701

00:38:10,861 --> 00:38:15,871

She was bred smaller and used specifically

for fighting dogs to practice on.

702

00:38:16,111 --> 00:38:18,901

Her teeth have been filed down straight

across, so she can't fight back.

703

00:38:19,796 --> 00:38:20,306

Ed Jameson: Yeah.

704

00:38:20,366 --> 00:38:23,636

And that's, um, there's a lot of people

who say that that is very catchy.

705

00:38:23,636 --> 00:38:26,156

And so we will see well-intended

advocates who don't really know, oh,

706

00:38:26,156 --> 00:38:27,656

this dog's gonna be used as a bait dog.

707

00:38:28,286 --> 00:38:29,636

Mul, multiple things.

708

00:38:29,696 --> 00:38:33,656

Um, dogs, the one that have microchips

are not eye candidates for that.

709

00:38:34,361 --> 00:38:36,971

In my experience, they are, um,

they're actually dogs who don't

710

00:38:36,971 --> 00:38:38,351

have any chance of winning at all.

711

00:38:38,351 --> 00:38:43,481

And so even so, pit bull, bully types

are not even, um, necessarily that thing.

712

00:38:43,541 --> 00:38:44,681

They, they, they want dogs.

713

00:38:44,681 --> 00:38:48,071

They have dogs that are for sure gonna

lose for, so they're fighting dogs.

714

00:38:48,071 --> 00:38:49,361

One don't get injured in it.

715

00:38:49,751 --> 00:38:52,151

Um, and it just sounds so

sensational when people say that,

716

00:38:52,151 --> 00:38:53,831

yes, this dog was used as bait.

717

00:38:54,211 --> 00:38:54,511

DrG: Yeah.

718

00:38:54,511 --> 00:38:57,811

In my experience, usually when we

see bait animals, it's going to be

719

00:38:57,811 --> 00:39:01,321

like really small dogs, or it's gonna

be cats, or it's gonna be wildlife.

720

00:39:01,321 --> 00:39:04,471

And they're used really more

to drive that prey sense.

721

00:39:04,471 --> 00:39:04,561

Right.

722

00:39:04,951 --> 00:39:06,511

Instead of actually fighting.

723

00:39:06,511 --> 00:39:11,161

Because one of the things that Jeanette

mentioned was the fact that, you know,

724

00:39:11,161 --> 00:39:15,301

like Belle, yeah, she's smaller, but

she can still cause injury and you don't

725

00:39:15,301 --> 00:39:19,921

want a high price pit bull to get injured

during, during a training session.

726

00:39:20,296 --> 00:39:20,716

Ed Jameson: Exactly.

727

00:39:20,716 --> 00:39:21,916

E Exactly.

728

00:39:21,916 --> 00:39:24,796

So yeah, that's, I hear that

all the time with people saying

729

00:39:24,796 --> 00:39:27,286

that from animals leaving the

shelter, particularly bully types.

730

00:39:27,286 --> 00:39:30,676

And it's just like, yeah, that's not

your, and most shelters are able to have

731

00:39:30,676 --> 00:39:32,506

animals fixed now before they leave too.

732

00:39:32,506 --> 00:39:35,776

So again, they're not, they're not

trying to take altered animals.

733

00:39:36,196 --> 00:39:36,556

Yeah.

734

00:39:36,796 --> 00:39:38,446

Bell was not what I would've said.

735

00:39:38,446 --> 00:39:41,476

If, if, you know, if there was an

organized thing that would be a of a bait

736

00:39:41,896 --> 00:39:44,266

dog that this, that this doesn't add up.

737

00:39:45,316 --> 00:39:46,876

Steffen Baldwin: I mean, you

can't really tell from now.

738

00:39:46,876 --> 00:39:49,696

I mean, you can see the scars of

course, but her jaw was falling apart.

739

00:39:49,696 --> 00:39:51,946

They had to do reconstructive

surgery to put it back together.

740

00:39:51,946 --> 00:39:52,906

She was emaciated.

741

00:39:52,906 --> 00:39:53,296

She was.

742

00:39:53,536 --> 00:39:55,486

You know, she was basically

left for dead almost.

743

00:39:55,486 --> 00:39:55,816

So,

744

00:39:55,906 --> 00:39:57,946

Robyn Haines: and that's kind of

where your relationships come in.

745

00:39:57,946 --> 00:40:00,556

I know you work with Rascal Animal

Hospital, obviously, and other

746

00:40:00,706 --> 00:40:03,436

groups that kind of help you

when you have a case like this.

747

00:40:03,496 --> 00:40:03,796

Steffen Baldwin: Correct?

748

00:40:03,796 --> 00:40:04,036

Yes.

749

00:40:04,036 --> 00:40:05,986

So we got the call from the

Cleveland Animal Control.

750

00:40:06,136 --> 00:40:09,256

Um, they, we were the only group that

they trusted to take this dog because

751

00:40:09,256 --> 00:40:12,016

of her dog issues, because of her

fear and what she had gone through.

752

00:40:12,016 --> 00:40:15,696

So we picked her up, we drove her down

to Rascal Animal Hospital here in Dublin.

753

00:40:15,726 --> 00:40:16,716

Uh, and Dr.

754

00:40:16,716 --> 00:40:18,366

G took great care of her physically.

755

00:40:18,606 --> 00:40:22,416

So, and that's our partnership with

Rascal, that they heal the, the, the

756

00:40:22,416 --> 00:40:24,276

body and we heal the mind basically.

757

00:40:24,306 --> 00:40:25,266

And then we have a whole dog.

758

00:40:25,921 --> 00:40:31,801

DrG: How far was she into her healing

process when you released her to

759

00:40:31,801 --> 00:40:35,731

Stefan because when I saw her,

she was, she looked really good.

760

00:40:35,791 --> 00:40:38,311

Like the, the treatments

that she had received and the

761

00:40:38,311 --> 00:40:39,811

drains and all of that stuff.

762

00:40:39,811 --> 00:40:42,301

She was looking really, really good.

763

00:40:42,301 --> 00:40:47,641

But he makes it sound like, you know, he

took her while she was still all ripped

764

00:40:47,641 --> 00:40:51,991

up and that we did a lot of the repair.

765

00:40:52,021 --> 00:40:54,026

When in reality all I did was the recheck.

766

00:40:54,627 --> 00:40:57,267

Ed Jameson: If I'm not mistaken, she had

been with us for a couple weeks between

767

00:40:57,267 --> 00:41:00,687

she, when she went to the emergency

vet care and then ultimately came back.

768

00:41:00,687 --> 00:41:03,687

And that's why we knew, trying to

look, man, this is gonna be hard to

769

00:41:03,687 --> 00:41:05,397

find anybody who'll take this dog one.

770

00:41:05,802 --> 00:41:08,622

Um, yes, it has all this medical

that is healing up, but then

771

00:41:08,622 --> 00:41:12,702

two, obviously, um, the, the, the

dog aggression component of it.

772

00:41:12,942 --> 00:41:16,602

But I am, I think we had her for a

couple weeks and we were really, really

773

00:41:16,812 --> 00:41:20,442

happy with the work that was as wet

Park, west Park Animal Hospital was.

774

00:41:20,442 --> 00:41:23,622

So we had the contract with, at least

when I was the chief there, and they,

775

00:41:23,622 --> 00:41:27,042

they had put all of those drains

and stitches and things like that.

776

00:41:27,042 --> 00:41:30,612

And so she was on her way to heal

medically, um, when she left.

777

00:41:30,612 --> 00:41:32,982

'cause I remember telling him

that, I said, I'm not a vet.

778

00:41:33,507 --> 00:41:36,867

But other than some rechecks, hopefully

everything, unless something gets

779

00:41:36,867 --> 00:41:40,707

infected, hopefully the medical

component, that wasn't the main

780

00:41:40,707 --> 00:41:41,967

reason I was reaching out for rescue.

781

00:41:41,967 --> 00:41:43,527

I was reaching out because

of the behavior component.

782

00:41:44,254 --> 00:41:48,884

DrG: I remember, uh, and I have a picture,

examining her when he first got her.

783

00:41:48,884 --> 00:41:52,124

And actually there is also a

picture of him driving with

784

00:41:52,124 --> 00:41:53,954

her after he picked her up.

785

00:41:54,404 --> 00:41:57,914

And in that picture, I mean, it's

like completely different dog

786

00:41:57,914 --> 00:42:01,034

compared to the pictures with all

the drains and all the injuries.

787

00:42:01,274 --> 00:42:03,764

So, you know, a little bit also,

788

00:42:04,149 --> 00:42:09,069

he was trying to fundraise based on, she's

a bait dog and everything else, but also

789

00:42:09,069 --> 00:42:13,509

trying to lead people to believe that he

needed to fundraise for her medical care,

790

00:42:13,509 --> 00:42:15,699

which you guys had already taken care of.

791

00:42:16,266 --> 00:42:17,706

Ed Jameson: I, I just think it's tough.

792

00:42:17,736 --> 00:42:20,046

Um, animal welfare.

793

00:42:20,131 --> 00:42:22,326

It, it goes through its different

iterations and we're in a

794

00:42:22,326 --> 00:42:23,826

really tough time right now.

795

00:42:24,306 --> 00:42:29,856

Um, the, the painting sad stories,

I totally understand that, that

796

00:42:29,886 --> 00:42:32,436

that can generate donations.

797

00:42:32,826 --> 00:42:36,756

It doesn't necessarily do the best for

our cause, especially shelter animals

798

00:42:36,756 --> 00:42:40,206

that the general public who doesn't

live lives like we do and think about

799

00:42:40,206 --> 00:42:43,986

animals all day long, it makes 'em think

that all of our animals are broken.

800

00:42:44,586 --> 00:42:48,936

Um, and I, I, I am fortunate enough

to be the CEO of an organization

801

00:42:48,936 --> 00:42:50,136

called Operation Kindness.

802

00:42:50,136 --> 00:42:53,616

Now we stay positive, we do

forensics work for the city of

803

00:42:53,616 --> 00:42:58,206

Dallas, um, and, and other, um, um,

entities throughout North Texas.

804

00:42:58,206 --> 00:43:01,686

And we still try to remain positive

as opposed to going to the negative.

805

00:43:02,051 --> 00:43:05,021

Um, yes, you can generate some dollars

on that, but the long term, if we're

806

00:43:05,021 --> 00:43:08,231

really trying to get the public to be

more involved, most people don't want

807

00:43:08,231 --> 00:43:09,641

to be involved with something sad.

808

00:43:09,671 --> 00:43:13,991

They would much rather be involved with

something that's got positive to it.

809

00:43:14,051 --> 00:43:16,661

It's still, I remember thinking, why

are we painting a story that we just

810

00:43:16,661 --> 00:43:19,271

don't know what's true as opposed to,

Hey, I'm trying to help this dog that

811

00:43:19,271 --> 00:43:20,681

obviously went through something rough.

812

00:43:21,176 --> 00:43:23,606

Has shown a bunch of good

qualities around human beings.

813

00:43:23,606 --> 00:43:26,576

Like I, I thought that that dog could

have been marketed that way as opposed

814

00:43:26,576 --> 00:43:29,546

to getting, I mean, they could think you

named the bell the bait dog before it

815

00:43:29,546 --> 00:43:31,016

was outside the city of Cleveland Limits.

816

00:43:31,046 --> 00:43:32,486

And that, that was disappointing to me.

817

00:43:33,776 --> 00:43:38,996

DrG: Over time we realized that Belle

was a really sweet dog with people,

818

00:43:39,446 --> 00:43:45,386

but Belle was an asshole with other

dogs, and she would see other dogs and

819

00:43:45,386 --> 00:43:49,556

she would go, like, she would lose her

voice because she was growling and, and

820

00:43:49,646 --> 00:43:52,526

barking so hard at these other dogs.

821

00:43:52,916 --> 00:43:58,676

So Bell is one of those dogs that he

had that had multiple fights in his

822

00:43:58,676 --> 00:44:04,016

house, I believe, uh, that at one point

even a neighbor hit her in the head

823

00:44:04,016 --> 00:44:08,366

with a shovel because she got out and

she was, she was being aggressive.

824

00:44:08,876 --> 00:44:14,906

So, I mean, the Belle to me is one of

the biggest examples of how he took a

825

00:44:14,906 --> 00:44:21,026

narrative and took this poor dog and

used her to, to make fame and make money.

826

00:44:21,596 --> 00:44:21,597

Det. Jim Conroy:

827

00:44:21,597 --> 00:44:23,126

Yes, you are correct.

828

00:44:24,146 --> 00:44:28,466

Um, all of that you have pretty good

understanding of, uh, bell was the,

829

00:44:28,586 --> 00:44:32,906

the Face of Act Ohio and what he,

he used as the Face of Act Ohio.

830

00:44:32,906 --> 00:44:37,766

And this, this bell story was

part of the all-encompassing

831

00:44:38,426 --> 00:44:39,986

telecommunications charge.

832

00:44:39,986 --> 00:44:40,646

You know, we did.

833

00:44:41,186 --> 00:44:45,026

You know, a telecom communications

charge for each of the dead dogs

834

00:44:45,026 --> 00:44:46,526

that he had posted as adopted.

835

00:44:46,916 --> 00:44:50,216

Then we did the all one encompassing

charge for all these other stories,

836

00:44:50,606 --> 00:44:54,326

you know, uh, about other dogs

that didn't necessarily die, um,

837

00:44:54,356 --> 00:44:56,066

but we're fraudulent stories.

838

00:44:56,066 --> 00:44:59,366

The Bell story is a complete fraud.

839

00:44:59,396 --> 00:45:00,596

It's all a lie.

840

00:45:01,166 --> 00:45:03,026

And it started from the very beginning.

841

00:45:03,231 --> 00:45:07,646

He, he made Act Ohio based on

Belle the bait dog, and as you

842

00:45:07,646 --> 00:45:10,796

said, wrote a book, which you

wrote a very glowing comment about,

843

00:45:11,576 --> 00:45:11,816

DrG: allegedly

844

00:45:11,906 --> 00:45:11,907

Det. Jim Conroy:

845

00:45:11,907 --> 00:45:11,996

in

846

00:45:12,536 --> 00:45:12,986

Amazon.

847

00:45:12,986 --> 00:45:13,706

No, you did.

848

00:45:13,706 --> 00:45:14,306

It was Dr.

849

00:45:14,306 --> 00:45:17,756

G and you were, had a glowing

review of it, which we know you

850

00:45:17,756 --> 00:45:19,316

didn't do, but he he did it.

851

00:45:19,856 --> 00:45:19,946

Yep.

852

00:45:19,946 --> 00:45:20,186

Um,

853

00:45:20,306 --> 00:45:20,307

Det. Jim Conroy:

854

00:45:20,307 --> 00:45:26,396

he wrote the review for you, but, um,

it was all a lie it's, you're right.

855

00:45:26,446 --> 00:45:29,386

She was not a bait dog, never was.

856

00:45:29,536 --> 00:45:30,856

We know the whole story.

857

00:45:31,246 --> 00:45:34,186

But he created this whole, he wrote

a book about her Belle, the Bait

858

00:45:34,186 --> 00:45:37,306

dog, you know, um, it was all a lie.

859

00:45:37,396 --> 00:45:38,686

There was nothing true to it.

860

00:45:38,686 --> 00:45:41,626

And then Belle was the number

one fighter in that house.

861

00:45:41,866 --> 00:45:46,276

She, I documented 13 different

fights that she started.

862

00:45:46,456 --> 00:45:48,106

She attacked other dogs.

863

00:45:48,496 --> 00:45:52,096

You mentioned the shovel one where,

where she escaped the house, went

864

00:45:52,096 --> 00:45:53,626

over and attacked the neighbor's dog.

865

00:45:53,926 --> 00:45:58,066

The neighbor hit her in the head and,

and split her head open with the shovel.

866

00:45:58,576 --> 00:46:00,616

Um, and she was rushed to the hospital.

867

00:46:00,676 --> 00:46:03,466

Baldwin happened to be

getting Amanda Walton.

868

00:46:03,466 --> 00:46:04,636

That was when he was moving.

869

00:46:04,636 --> 00:46:05,416

So he wasn't home.

870

00:46:06,226 --> 00:46:08,896

He was getting, picking

her up with the U-Haul.

871

00:46:08,896 --> 00:46:14,356

That Act Ohio paid for this whole entire

trip to move her back to Act Ohio, to live

872

00:46:14,356 --> 00:46:18,286

with him, to be on his TV show and Bell.

873

00:46:18,286 --> 00:46:21,736

That's when Bell got loose

and, and, and was hospitalized.

874

00:46:21,786 --> 00:46:24,606

Belle was the number one fighter.

875

00:46:25,576 --> 00:46:30,856

I documented 13 fights Belle was in and

she started all of 'em, or most of them.

876

00:46:37,286 --> 00:46:40,166

DrG: Peewee came from a

hoarding case in Union County.

877

00:46:40,866 --> 00:46:45,461

And he had called us and said that he

had this warrant and he was going to

878

00:46:45,461 --> 00:46:49,121

go in and they were taking all these

animals out of this hoarding facility

879

00:46:49,271 --> 00:46:52,241

or this house that was a hoarding place.

880

00:46:52,691 --> 00:46:55,691

And Peewee was one of the many

dogs that came from there.

881

00:46:55,871 --> 00:46:58,991

And I actually have pictures of

my staff with Peewee, and he came

882

00:46:58,991 --> 00:47:03,311

in that they were cleaning him up

because all of these dogs were a mess.

883

00:47:03,311 --> 00:47:06,611

Like they were matted, they

were covered in like caked

884

00:47:06,611 --> 00:47:08,831

in urine and feces and stuff.

885

00:47:09,401 --> 00:47:12,431

Um, but realistically, Peewee was old.

886

00:47:13,001 --> 00:47:19,091

Uh, he was a senior guy, but nothing

really significant with him But then he

887

00:47:19,871 --> 00:47:26,691

sends him out to foster, and Peewee ended

up being victim of Steffen's shenanigans.

888

00:47:27,451 --> 00:47:27,452

Det. Jim Conroy:

889

00:47:27,452 --> 00:47:33,001

In, uh, January of two 15, I think it

was the 25th of January, uh, Peewee

890

00:47:33,001 --> 00:47:34,681

was part of a, a hoarding case.

891

00:47:34,681 --> 00:47:39,361

So many animals, like maybe a

dozen or so that, that were removed

892

00:47:39,361 --> 00:47:41,371

from a house, uh, by Baldwin.

893

00:47:41,401 --> 00:47:43,831

Stephanie Van Brimmer: We received a, um,

894

00:47:46,276 --> 00:47:52,621

a tip or a call, um, basically saying

that there was an injured beagle, that

895

00:47:52,621 --> 00:47:55,291

the owner was refusing medical treatment.

896

00:47:56,031 --> 00:47:59,511

When we first went out there,

Steffen and I went on that call

897

00:47:59,511 --> 00:48:03,591

together, um, and we met with Mr.

898

00:48:03,591 --> 00:48:09,111

Martin and, um, he

brought out one dog to us.

899

00:48:09,501 --> 00:48:12,711

But it was not the dog that fit the

description that we were looking for.

900

00:48:12,921 --> 00:48:16,161

Uh, he refused to let us inside the house.

901

00:48:16,461 --> 00:48:20,421

He, he did walk us out back to

where two dogs were chained up,

902

00:48:20,931 --> 00:48:25,791

and then we, we knew right then

that, um, he wasn't being truthful.

903

00:48:25,791 --> 00:48:31,491

So we just documented what we saw and what

we heard that day, and then we went back.

904

00:48:31,981 --> 00:48:37,711

I took the information that I gathered

from that, um, when we were there

905

00:48:37,711 --> 00:48:42,091

and I went back to the person that

originally filed the complaint and

906

00:48:42,091 --> 00:48:46,141

showed her pictures of the dogs

that we witnessed that day and

907

00:48:46,261 --> 00:48:49,801

confirmed if that was the, one of

the dogs that she was talking about.

908

00:48:49,801 --> 00:48:51,721

And she said no.

909

00:48:51,781 --> 00:48:56,341

And so then we, um, moved forward

with obtaining a search warrant.

910

00:48:57,221 --> 00:49:02,771

Steffen and I with the sheriff,

um, went back to the house

911

00:49:03,131 --> 00:49:05,336

and, um, when we went in,

912

00:49:13,734 --> 00:49:15,114

Melissa Chase: do you

need, do you need a minute?

913

00:49:19,694 --> 00:49:21,824

Stephanie Van Brimmer: There were dogs.

914

00:49:22,364 --> 00:49:30,224

There was one dog chained to

a bed in horrible conditions.

915

00:49:31,724 --> 00:49:34,964

Um, flea infested, covered in urine.

916

00:49:37,214 --> 00:49:45,074

Probably three inch nails, um, chained

to a hospital bed covered in feces.

917

00:49:46,604 --> 00:49:51,764

Um, across the room, in the same room

across was a dog chained to a wall.

918

00:49:55,319 --> 00:50:04,514

In the kitchen, there was a made

shift crate or fence that you would

919

00:50:04,514 --> 00:50:14,144

see outside with straw and a dog

laying there covered in feces, matted.

920

00:50:14,565 --> 00:50:15,255

There were 24.

921

00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:19,555

Melissa Chase: Who were the two

dogs that were chained outside?

922

00:50:20,035 --> 00:50:22,465

Stephanie Van Brimmer:

Um, Peewee was one of 'em.

923

00:50:22,465 --> 00:50:24,835

And King was the other.

924

00:50:26,105 --> 00:50:29,165

I don't remember the complete

conversation with Rick.

925

00:50:29,285 --> 00:50:35,465

Um, but the Martin case was a little

bit different because, um, they, they,

926

00:50:35,495 --> 00:50:40,505

they did something, uh, it's called,

um, owner surrender in lieu of charges.

927

00:50:40,775 --> 00:50:40,895

Mm-hmm.

928

00:50:40,901 --> 00:50:47,505

Um, and that was, um, an agreement

that Steffen had, so when we removed

929

00:50:47,505 --> 00:50:53,025

all of the animals to Rascal, Steffen

stayed back and Steffen talked with Mr.

930

00:50:53,025 --> 00:50:53,475

Martin.

931

00:50:53,775 --> 00:51:00,915

He built, um, um, more of an

understanding of the, the bigger

932

00:51:00,915 --> 00:51:02,745

picture and the more of the situation.

933

00:51:03,165 --> 00:51:08,945

And later there was a later conversation

between me and Steffen and Steffen

934

00:51:08,945 --> 00:51:12,555

what Steffen's recommendation

where he thought would be most

935

00:51:12,555 --> 00:51:14,565

impactful for this situation.

936

00:51:14,985 --> 00:51:16,035

And he, um.

937

00:51:16,095 --> 00:51:21,075

Um, proposed the, um, owner

surrender in lieu of charges,

938

00:51:21,495 --> 00:51:23,025

um, instead of moving forward.

939

00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:27,930

We transported all of the

animals to animal, um, Rascal

940

00:51:27,930 --> 00:51:29,280

Animal Hospital in Dublin.

941

00:51:29,990 --> 00:51:37,970

Pee Wee was a senior dog that

was, um, chained up outside

942

00:51:38,450 --> 00:51:40,850

with no access to food or water.

943

00:51:41,180 --> 00:51:45,170

His body condition, I would

say was probably fair.

944

00:51:45,230 --> 00:51:47,750

Um, he was matted.

945

00:51:48,290 --> 00:51:49,850

Um, and a,

946

00:51:51,260 --> 00:51:56,660

he had some, um, health conditions

that were being treated at Rascal.

947

00:51:57,412 --> 00:52:02,332

DrG: So at one point when Stephanie

is at Rascal Animal Hospital, bringing

948

00:52:02,332 --> 00:52:05,152

in the dogs, taking care of the dogs,

she realizes that the people that

949

00:52:05,152 --> 00:52:08,932

got the dogs taken away from them,

they were outside and they have been

950

00:52:08,932 --> 00:52:12,742

threatening her, I believe, online,

but she thought that they were outside.

951

00:52:12,862 --> 00:52:17,662

So I texted Steffen and I said, Hey,

um, Stephanie thinks that they're

952

00:52:17,662 --> 00:52:19,342

here and she's afraid to go outside.

953

00:52:19,912 --> 00:52:23,182

And he just blows it

off, like literal words.

954

00:52:23,212 --> 00:52:28,162

It's like, tell her to put on her

big boy pants and just deal with it.

955

00:52:28,492 --> 00:52:30,952

And that's how, that's

not how that works, right?

956

00:52:30,952 --> 00:52:33,562

You have to protect your

staff and your people, right?

957

00:52:33,562 --> 00:52:36,082

Like you don't know how these

people are going to react.

958

00:52:36,082 --> 00:52:38,752

You just took their animals

like they could be volatile,

959

00:52:39,442 --> 00:52:41,182

so completely inappropriate.

960

00:52:42,033 --> 00:52:42,034

Det. Jim Conroy:

961

00:52:42,034 --> 00:52:45,603

I know that Peewee came to,

uh, Rascal Animal Hospital.

962

00:52:46,173 --> 00:52:48,693

He had, I think a heart

murmur or something like that.

963

00:52:49,053 --> 00:52:50,823

He was deemed to be eight years old.

964

00:52:51,303 --> 00:52:57,633

Um, and within a week he went to a, a

woman, uh, a foster named Theresa Balsiger

965

00:52:58,093 --> 00:53:02,773

Theresa Balsiger: I'm Theresa

Balsiger and I was PeeWee's Foster.

966

00:53:03,643 --> 00:53:11,983

And we got Peewee because, um, the humane

agent, Stephanie VanBrimmer, who worked

967

00:53:11,983 --> 00:53:19,903

with Steffen, advertised on their Facebook

page that they needed, um, fosters for

968

00:53:19,933 --> 00:53:22,873

these, this humane case in Marysville.

969

00:53:23,413 --> 00:53:28,093

So we got in touch with Stephanie

and decided to foster Peewee.

970

00:53:28,093 --> 00:53:33,733

So we just went down to Rascal and they

brought him out to us and we brought him

971

00:53:33,733 --> 00:53:35,743

back here and that's how it all started.

972

00:53:37,273 --> 00:53:40,543

DrG: So what was your, what was your

impression of Peewee when you got him?

973

00:53:41,473 --> 00:53:44,923

Theresa Balsiger: He was, uh, a goof.

974

00:53:45,363 --> 00:53:50,908

Like he just had that face

that you just wanted to pet.

975

00:53:50,938 --> 00:53:56,488

You know, he just, he

seemed very sad, but he,

976

00:53:57,883 --> 00:53:59,503

he was interested in things.

977

00:53:59,503 --> 00:54:05,443

So when we like brought him home, we had

a chihuahua, Phyllis and Phyllis fell

978

00:54:05,443 --> 00:54:10,993

in love with Peewee, and I don't know

if it was because of the hair, but he

979

00:54:10,993 --> 00:54:15,583

would, if he was outside laying, then

she would get up and like kind of knit

980

00:54:15,823 --> 00:54:20,743

his back like a cat does, and then curl

around and then lay there with Peewee.

981

00:54:21,133 --> 00:54:22,453

So they hung out a lot.

982

00:54:22,453 --> 00:54:23,923

Peewee and Phyllis were buddies.

983

00:54:24,418 --> 00:54:28,138

So usually wherever he was, she

would follow him and they fo they

984

00:54:28,138 --> 00:54:29,278

would go all around the yard.

985

00:54:29,278 --> 00:54:35,778

But to me he just seemed like he was

a senior dog, but on the young side

986

00:54:35,778 --> 00:54:40,788

of senior who was still interested in

learning about life, if that makes sense.

987

00:54:40,788 --> 00:54:44,568

He just didn't have, sometimes he showed

little puppy characteristics when he

988

00:54:44,568 --> 00:54:48,258

would gallop around the yard and we're

like, oh, he's finally feeling like

989

00:54:48,258 --> 00:54:50,328

he can run, you know, or do something.

990

00:54:50,898 --> 00:54:55,278

Um, so yeah, we, we kind of,

we, we said we'd keep him for

991

00:54:55,278 --> 00:54:56,658

as long as he needed to be kept.

992

00:54:56,658 --> 00:54:58,548

'cause I didn't think he

would ever get adopted.

993

00:54:59,418 --> 00:55:00,678

DrG: And how long did you have him?

994

00:55:01,338 --> 00:55:07,638

Theresa Balsiger: We had him, I

wanna say close to five months.

995

00:55:08,258 --> 00:55:08,259

Det. Jim Conroy:

996

00:55:08,259 --> 00:55:11,228

Uh, so on February 1st, he was with her.

997

00:55:12,068 --> 00:55:18,728

And, uh, and had been with her, uh,

and he was like a really sweet dog.

998

00:55:18,758 --> 00:55:21,518

He wasn't, wasn't a Pit Bull

or it was just not a typical

999

00:55:21,608 --> 00:55:22,958

dog that Baldwin dealt with.

1000

00:55:22,958 --> 00:55:27,278

It was just this very sweet, gentle,

I'm not sure what type of dog it was,

1001

00:55:27,368 --> 00:55:31,238

but so it did really well at her house.

1002

00:55:31,598 --> 00:55:35,618

And, um, she said it was like coming

back to life and, and the light was back

1003

00:55:35,618 --> 00:55:37,268

in his eyes and he was enjoying life.

1004

00:55:37,328 --> 00:55:41,558

And, and in, uh, may they

took him, well, first she took

1005

00:55:41,558 --> 00:55:43,658

him to her own vet in April.

1006

00:55:44,198 --> 00:55:48,668

Uh, and then in May, her, it was her

son or her daughter at Ohio State had

1007

00:55:48,668 --> 00:55:53,438

some sort of, uh, uh, a thing with

animals like out in the corridor,

1008

00:55:53,498 --> 00:55:54,938

one of the main parts of campus.

1009

00:55:55,628 --> 00:56:00,158

And, um, you know, peewee, they,

they, you know, Theresa said that

1010

00:56:00,158 --> 00:56:01,688

he was in the height of his glory.

1011

00:56:01,688 --> 00:56:05,738

He was so happy and, and loving

life and, and he just was a

1012

00:56:05,798 --> 00:56:07,748

completely changed and different dog.

1013

00:56:08,348 --> 00:56:16,358

And then, uh, a month later in, uh, June,

um, Baldwin has another dog named Coco.

1014

00:56:16,478 --> 00:56:22,388

And, uh, Balsiger's would have to go out

of town and they have a, a bigger dog.

1015

00:56:22,748 --> 00:56:26,708

So they asked Baldwin to watch this

bigger dog as they went out of town.

1016

00:56:26,823 --> 00:56:28,718

And, and he agreed to.

1017

00:56:29,088 --> 00:56:36,408

Theresa Balsiger: Coco came from Franklin

County Animal Shelter and we've had Coco,

1018

00:56:36,408 --> 00:56:43,368

I think since 20, well, at Peewee went in

2015, so that's how long we've had Coco.

1019

00:56:43,368 --> 00:56:48,978

So we've had him 10 years and he, and.

1020

00:56:50,628 --> 00:56:55,608

It, it, I, I really, every time I think

about it, I go, I could just throw up

1021

00:56:55,608 --> 00:56:58,368

because of, of what happened with Remy.

1022

00:56:58,368 --> 00:57:03,948

But we had went on vacation and we're

gone for two weeks and we have a dog,

1023

00:57:04,938 --> 00:57:11,488

Kozar We took him everywhere and he was,

part Newfoundland and part Rottweiler.

1024

00:57:11,748 --> 00:57:17,148

He developed this fear type aggression,

so we, I couldn't have a regular pet

1025

00:57:17,148 --> 00:57:22,128

sitter come for fear that they would

get bit, so I had asked Steffen to

1026

00:57:22,128 --> 00:57:26,073

watch Kozar, and he did for two weeks.

1027

00:57:26,073 --> 00:57:30,603

He watched Kozar and I'm think, man, I'm

so glad nothing happened to that dog.

1028

00:57:30,883 --> 00:57:30,884

Det. Jim Conroy:

1029

00:57:30,884 --> 00:57:35,023

So when they came back, Baldwin

says, Hey, you know, uh, you

1030

00:57:35,023 --> 00:57:36,883

know, your dog and our dog, Coco.

1031

00:57:37,258 --> 00:57:40,168

Well, the dog he was talking about,

uh, you know, hit it off and they're,

1032

00:57:40,198 --> 00:57:43,318

they're wonderful, they're great, and

he'd be great to foster at your house.

1033

00:57:43,348 --> 00:57:47,038

You know, Coco, well, Coco

was a, a another problem dog.

1034

00:57:47,668 --> 00:57:53,128

And, um, this was just him getting rid

of a problem dog for whatever reason.

1035

00:57:53,708 --> 00:57:55,928

Theresa Balsiger: He brought

Coco over to our house.

1036

00:57:56,708 --> 00:57:57,818

They just did.

1037

00:57:57,818 --> 00:58:00,068

I mean, they took off and did great.

1038

00:58:00,638 --> 00:58:05,708

So I said, I will bring Coco

in, and then he was gonna take

1039

00:58:05,708 --> 00:58:08,258

Peewee and I said, he's so good.

1040

00:58:08,708 --> 00:58:11,078

I said, there's, he's so easy.

1041

00:58:11,408 --> 00:58:14,498

He just wants to, you know, relax.

1042

00:58:14,498 --> 00:58:15,068

He slept.

1043

00:58:15,743 --> 00:58:16,703

Stretched out.

1044

00:58:16,703 --> 00:58:21,113

He was not on a chain anymore,

so he just kind of meandered.

1045

00:58:21,113 --> 00:58:23,933

And then every now and then he

would get this gallop going.

1046

00:58:23,933 --> 00:58:27,563

And we always said he looked like a

goat out there frolicking in the yard.

1047

00:58:28,193 --> 00:58:30,023

So he said, okay.

1048

00:58:30,423 --> 00:58:35,583

So we kept Coco continued to

foster him, probably thinking

1049

00:58:35,583 --> 00:58:37,203

in our minds we would adopt him.

1050

00:58:37,743 --> 00:58:42,633

And then we sent Peewee with Steffen

who he said, oh he'll just, you

1051

00:58:42,633 --> 00:58:47,583

know, live his quiet life, uh, you

know, being out in the backyard and

1052

00:58:47,583 --> 00:58:49,503

in the house and doing his thing.

1053

00:58:49,503 --> 00:58:51,783

And I said, oh, said that works for me.

1054

00:58:52,503 --> 00:58:58,023

So then we brought Cocoa in and then

that's how Steffen got Peewee back.

1055

00:58:59,193 --> 00:58:59,194

Det. Jim Conroy:

1056

00:58:59,194 --> 00:59:02,013

Now, she didn't ask him to take

Peewee back, he just took Peewee back.

1057

00:59:02,853 --> 00:59:07,503

And, um, that was like

on a Saturday evening.

1058

00:59:07,893 --> 00:59:14,673

And then, um, Monday morning, uh, he

messaged you that he needed to bring

1059

00:59:14,673 --> 00:59:19,893

in a dog, uh, that was, uh, needed to

be euthanized and, uh, that was Peewee.

1060

00:59:21,003 --> 00:59:27,603

And Peewee, he said Peewee was 14 years

old and had neurological condition

1061

00:59:27,603 --> 00:59:32,733

and problems, and his quality of life

was poor and that he needed, you know,

1062

00:59:32,733 --> 00:59:36,213

to be euthanized due to, you know,

all of those issues that he's having.

1063

00:59:36,213 --> 00:59:37,503

So, you know, he brought him in.

1064

00:59:37,713 --> 00:59:40,623

It was like 40 hours later

from when he took Peewee,

1065

00:59:40,948 --> 00:59:41,168

and,

1066

00:59:41,173 --> 00:59:42,933

and the day in between was Sunday.

1067

00:59:42,933 --> 00:59:46,353

So, you know, we know he

didn't take Peewee anywhere.

1068

00:59:46,773 --> 00:59:51,783

So he had Peewee euthanized at

your place on that Monday morning

1069

00:59:51,813 --> 00:59:53,853

or noon right around there.

1070

00:59:54,603 --> 00:59:58,863

And, um, yeah, this was one of the

tougher stories for me because I remember,

1071

00:59:59,343 --> 01:00:02,793

when I had read this and found out

that Peewee had been euthanized,

1072

01:00:03,153 --> 01:00:04,473

I couldn't sleep that night.

1073

01:00:04,473 --> 01:00:06,693

It was like one in the

morning when I saw the story.

1074

01:00:07,263 --> 01:00:09,063

Um, and it just really bothered me.

1075

01:00:09,093 --> 01:00:14,133

'cause when I had talked to Theresa

Balsiger she was one that did not know

1076

01:00:14,133 --> 01:00:18,483

that that that Baldwin had euthanized

Peewee, uh, she, you know, through

1077

01:00:18,483 --> 01:00:23,393

messages, tried to contact him about,

uh, Peewee after Baldwin took her back,

1078

01:00:23,593 --> 01:00:24,963

and always asked about Peewee.

1079

01:00:25,515 --> 01:00:26,355

Theresa Balsiger: How's Peewee doing?

1080

01:00:26,355 --> 01:00:27,285

Oh, he is doing great.

1081

01:00:27,315 --> 01:00:28,155

How's Peewee doing?

1082

01:00:28,155 --> 01:00:28,455

Great.

1083

01:00:28,455 --> 01:00:32,655

He kept that whole time, he kept saying,

he's doing fine, he's doing fine.

1084

01:00:32,685 --> 01:00:35,715

He's out sleeping under my kayaks.

1085

01:00:36,405 --> 01:00:37,545

You know, he would give me.

1086

01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:40,770

I mean, where he slept most of the day.

1087

01:00:40,770 --> 01:00:42,540

He had a good dinner, you know this.

1088

01:00:42,750 --> 01:00:45,720

So it was stuff that he made up

1089

01:00:46,020 --> 01:00:47,100

Can you come over here?

1090

01:00:47,100 --> 01:00:49,110

'cause Coco's was bad.

1091

01:00:49,110 --> 01:00:50,610

He was horrible dog.

1092

01:00:51,150 --> 01:00:57,360

He would, I mean, he wasn't aggressive,

but he would run and, and chase and, um,

1093

01:00:57,540 --> 01:01:02,280

when you would come in the, like into the,

the backyard from the garage, he would

1094

01:01:02,700 --> 01:01:06,120

run at you and jump like lung at you.

1095

01:01:06,810 --> 01:01:12,390

And he knocked me over several times

because he's just so excited you're home

1096

01:01:12,990 --> 01:01:14,730

and want to give you that attention.

1097

01:01:15,435 --> 01:01:19,005

So I said, can you come over

here and help me figure out how

1098

01:01:19,005 --> 01:01:21,105

to get him to stop doing this?

1099

01:01:22,155 --> 01:01:25,905

Um, well I can't because I've got my son.

1100

01:01:25,935 --> 01:01:31,275

I can't because I'm this, I can't because,

and I said, well, if you don't come over

1101

01:01:31,275 --> 01:01:35,805

here and help me, I said, then I'm going

to get, you're gonna take this dog back.

1102

01:01:35,915 --> 01:01:38,615

He now, he is so good mannered.

1103

01:01:38,825 --> 01:01:40,655

He doesn't jump on anybody.

1104

01:01:40,685 --> 01:01:46,685

He's still ex exceptionally excited and

happy when anybody comes to see him.

1105

01:01:46,985 --> 01:01:52,625

So I mean, it just, but I thought you

adopt out these dogs that are very strong

1106

01:01:52,630 --> 01:01:55,295

and muscular and then you just walk away.

1107

01:01:55,625 --> 01:01:59,315

You don't give any extra help with.

1108

01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,090

How can I fix this problem?

1109

01:02:02,630 --> 01:02:06,590

And then, and if I wouldn't have stuck

with it and he would've went back to

1110

01:02:06,590 --> 01:02:11,060

Steffen's I wholeheartedly believe Coco

would've been put down for some reason.

1111

01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:11,681

Det. Jim Conroy:

1112

01:02:11,681 --> 01:02:16,270

She told me she eventually,

um, confronted him some place

1113

01:02:16,270 --> 01:02:18,760

maybe back in like December.

1114

01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:22,840

Um, after, you know, he had taken him

in June and he said, oh yeah, Peewee

1115

01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:26,980

had passed away, you know, recently

and, you know, due to the old age.

1116

01:02:26,985 --> 01:02:28,330

And, and that's what he had told her.

1117

01:02:28,670 --> 01:02:31,790

Theresa Balsiger: Do you remember

when the Mars Food Company

1118

01:02:31,790 --> 01:02:33,800

always did those adoption events?

1119

01:02:33,830 --> 01:02:34,010

Yes.

1120

01:02:34,190 --> 01:02:37,890

Did you, so it was during

that adoption event.

1121

01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:46,070

We went, and I saw Steffen

and I said, how is Peewee?

1122

01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:52,550

Because I think if I, if I remember

correctly, I'm not positive, but I think

1123

01:02:52,550 --> 01:02:59,370

Stephanie had given me some kind of, I

need to talk, you need to talk to Steffen,

1124

01:03:00,170 --> 01:03:06,890

and I was bound and determined, and when

I finally saw him during that event.

1125

01:03:07,370 --> 01:03:10,700

He said, well, I never wanted to tell.

1126

01:03:10,700 --> 01:03:16,430

I always wanted to tell you to your face

that I had put, had to put Peewee down.

1127

01:03:17,020 --> 01:03:17,021

Det. Jim Conroy:

1128

01:03:17,021 --> 01:03:21,070

So I told her that no Peewee

was euthanized on June 8th.

1129

01:03:21,610 --> 01:03:26,860

You turned Peewee over to him on June

6th at like 6:00 PM on a Saturday night.

1130

01:03:27,250 --> 01:03:28,960

And she refused to believe me.

1131

01:03:28,990 --> 01:03:30,190

She would not believe me.

1132

01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:34,450

She's like, there's no way that

Peewee was euthanized on the eighth.

1133

01:03:34,450 --> 01:03:37,570

And I, I'm like telling you, I am

looking at the records right now.

1134

01:03:37,810 --> 01:03:38,950

He was euthanized.

1135

01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:41,830

She was beside herself.

1136

01:03:42,550 --> 01:03:46,510

She thought that Peewee had died,

you know, due to just getting older.

1137

01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:47,590

Um.

1138

01:03:48,715 --> 01:03:53,695

And she just was, again, another

devastated person from hearing about

1139

01:03:53,695 --> 01:03:56,545

just a sweet dog that she had videos of.

1140

01:03:57,205 --> 01:04:01,525

Um, and this was just a sweet,

gentle dog that did not deserve that.

1141

01:04:01,862 --> 01:04:04,262

Theresa Balsiger: He kept that

whole time, he kept saying, he's

1142

01:04:04,262 --> 01:04:06,062

doing fine, he's doing fine.

1143

01:04:06,092 --> 01:04:09,122

He's out sleeping under my kayaks.

1144

01:04:09,812 --> 01:04:10,952

You know, he would give me.

1145

01:04:11,807 --> 01:04:14,177

I mean, where he slept most of the day.

1146

01:04:14,177 --> 01:04:15,947

He had a good dinner, you know this.

1147

01:04:16,157 --> 01:04:21,377

So it was stuff that he made up

because Doc then, um, detective

1148

01:04:21,377 --> 01:04:27,467

Conroy told me the very next day, so

I think whenever day we gave him on

1149

01:04:27,467 --> 01:04:33,557

a Sunday or a Saturday, he said that

next day is when he was put down.

1150

01:04:34,697 --> 01:04:36,737

And I went, you're kidding me?

1151

01:04:36,737 --> 01:04:37,607

And he said, Nope.

1152

01:04:38,237 --> 01:04:41,387

I am not, he said, and I'm sorry

to be the one to tell you that.

1153

01:04:41,627 --> 01:04:41,628

Det. Jim Conroy:

1154

01:04:41,628 --> 01:04:47,927

Thankfully, you know, so when I got

the vet records, um, you know, what he

1155

01:04:47,927 --> 01:04:50,717

had told, uh, whoever had euthanized.

1156

01:04:50,717 --> 01:04:53,657

I don't remember if it was you or

someone else who had euthanized.

1157

01:04:53,657 --> 01:04:53,717

DrG: No.

1158

01:04:53,717 --> 01:04:58,547

he brought him over to Rascal Animal

Hospital and told the doctor, Dr.

1159

01:04:58,547 --> 01:05:04,877

Decker at that time, um, told her

that he was having problems, and I

1160

01:05:04,877 --> 01:05:10,157

think even seizures and neurological

conditions and just not doing well.

1161

01:05:10,210 --> 01:05:10,211

Det. Jim Conroy:

1162

01:05:10,211 --> 01:05:10,540

Yeah.

1163

01:05:10,540 --> 01:05:15,100

And neurological conditions, poor

quality of life, um, you know,

1164

01:05:15,100 --> 01:05:18,790

palliative care and end of life, you

know, needs just need to be euthanized.

1165

01:05:18,790 --> 01:05:25,779

Well, thankfully Theresa Balsiger had

taken Peewee to her vet and that report

1166

01:05:25,779 --> 01:05:32,290

was nothing like, uh, what Baldwin gave

to you guys, which was complete opposite.

1167

01:05:32,350 --> 01:05:34,570

You know, Peewee had a

very good quality of life.

1168

01:05:34,660 --> 01:05:37,029

Peewee had no neurological conditions.

1169

01:05:37,330 --> 01:05:41,950

Peewee was just a sweet boy that

was just starting from, lived

1170

01:05:41,950 --> 01:05:47,620

a life of, of a horrible life,

neglect in a hoarding situation.

1171

01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:52,270

Um, I believe he was tied outside,

uh, to a chain, uh, and a very

1172

01:05:52,300 --> 01:05:56,500

short chain at that and, you know,

to finally get a chance in life.

1173

01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:58,060

And there was no reason.

1174

01:05:58,820 --> 01:06:00,170

Theresa Balsiger: I'd had him to Dr.

1175

01:06:00,170 --> 01:06:03,190

Sullivan, who was my regular vet.

1176

01:06:04,255 --> 01:06:06,385

And he said he was fine.

1177

01:06:06,385 --> 01:06:12,685

He goes, he walked in circles, but he

said he walked in circles because he was

1178

01:06:12,685 --> 01:06:15,145

on a chain for eight years of his life.

1179

01:06:15,625 --> 01:06:22,090

And he goes, he will eventually

transition out of that, but you just

1180

01:06:22,090 --> 01:06:23,770

have to let him do it on his own.

1181

01:06:23,830 --> 01:06:24,670

And I said, all right.

1182

01:06:24,670 --> 01:06:28,180

So we didn't force him and we would, he

would get out and he would go out in the

1183

01:06:28,180 --> 01:06:33,250

yard and he would start meandering around

with the other dogs and doing things.

1184

01:06:33,250 --> 01:06:36,220

So he was slowly getting out of that.

1185

01:06:36,850 --> 01:06:40,360

My life is not at the

end of this chain always.

1186

01:06:40,750 --> 01:06:41,080

DrG: Yeah.

1187

01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:43,720

So he had like obsessive compulsive type,

1188

01:06:44,529 --> 01:06:49,300

activity as far as just the circling,

that was not a neurologic problem.

1189

01:06:49,300 --> 01:06:49,390

Yes.

1190

01:06:49,450 --> 01:06:52,330

But more of a behavioral issue

from the condition that he

1191

01:06:52,330 --> 01:06:53,920

was kept for so many years.

1192

01:06:54,220 --> 01:06:55,060

Theresa Balsiger: Yes.

1193

01:06:55,270 --> 01:06:56,350

That's what I mean.

1194

01:06:56,350 --> 01:06:59,860

That's what we were, I, uh,

I don't know if you knew Dr.

1195

01:06:59,860 --> 01:07:00,400

Sullivan.

1196

01:07:00,550 --> 01:07:05,600

He passed, but he was one of

those, he just, he knew his stuff.

1197

01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:07,040

He just was a great vet.

1198

01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:07,850

And then he passed away.

1199

01:07:07,850 --> 01:07:09,620

But he was like, no.

1200

01:07:09,620 --> 01:07:16,565

He goes, keep him . So if I would've

seen any signs of Peewee not being where

1201

01:07:16,565 --> 01:07:21,425

he couldn't make it, then we would've

not, we would've, you know, taken

1202

01:07:21,425 --> 01:07:23,435

him in because I would've kept him.

1203

01:07:23,435 --> 01:07:28,175

I've kept all of my dogs and I

would've kept his ashes, but I

1204

01:07:28,175 --> 01:07:30,665

was, I, I feel like I was robbed.

1205

01:07:31,645 --> 01:07:31,646

Det. Jim Conroy:

1206

01:07:31,646 --> 01:07:34,375

She did not ask him to take,

he just took Peewee back.

1207

01:07:34,915 --> 01:07:38,215

But he knew that no one, no

one would ask about Peewee.

1208

01:07:38,215 --> 01:07:39,595

Peewee belonged to nobody.

1209

01:07:39,835 --> 01:07:42,385

He belonged to a hoarding

house that he took Peewee from.

1210

01:07:42,385 --> 01:07:44,035

No one was gonna ask about Peewee.

1211

01:07:44,515 --> 01:07:47,540

He was getting, you know, he was

getting rid of a problem dog named Coco.

1212

01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:49,945

And he's getting rid of a dog

1213

01:07:49,945 --> 01:07:53,125

no one's gonna ask about, 'cause he didn't

like older dogs, which he had made the

1214

01:07:53,125 --> 01:07:54,925

comment, he didn't like smaller dogs.

1215

01:07:55,705 --> 01:07:59,605

Now, Peewee was only eight years

old, but when he euthanized

1216

01:07:59,605 --> 01:08:01,915

Peewee, he had Peewee at 14.

1217

01:08:01,915 --> 01:08:03,145

Now he would do this a lot.

1218

01:08:03,145 --> 01:08:07,585

He would exaggerate ages and or

ailments or lie about ailments of what

1219

01:08:07,585 --> 01:08:11,725

dogs did or have or that they did,

or who they fought or didn't fight.

1220

01:08:12,055 --> 01:08:14,725

He would lie about all those

things when he had dogs euthanized.

1221

01:08:15,154 --> 01:08:19,955

DrG: This case was really sad for

many reasons, but the impact that

1222

01:08:19,955 --> 01:08:24,755

it had on the people that care about

Peewee, especially the humane agent,

1223

01:08:24,935 --> 01:08:30,575

who thought that she was out there

helping him and taking him out of this

1224

01:08:30,604 --> 01:08:36,484

horrible situation, eight years tied

to a chain, and now he's finally living

1225

01:08:36,484 --> 01:08:44,645

his best life and she finds out that he

actually was euthanized for no reason.

1226

01:08:45,198 --> 01:08:47,174

Stephanie Van Brimmer: I'm, I'm sad.

1227

01:08:49,779 --> 01:08:53,774

I, I don't know that I

completely understand all of

1228

01:08:53,774 --> 01:08:57,314

the, the decisions that he made.

1229

01:08:58,634 --> 01:09:02,564

I am really disappointed that we

didn't give Peewee another opportunity.

1230

01:09:04,844 --> 01:09:06,734

I'm really disappointed that

1231

01:09:10,922 --> 01:09:18,932

I wish that I was in a position and

1232

01:09:21,032 --> 01:09:22,261

that I, I could have

1233

01:09:23,022 --> 01:09:25,877

helped, I guess, and I.

1234

01:09:26,955 --> 01:09:33,495

I struggle with, um, understanding the

thought process on a lot of things.

1235

01:09:34,635 --> 01:09:37,575

So I did not know that

Peewee was euthanized.

1236

01:09:37,995 --> 01:09:46,785

And I know for a fact that if that was

the situation that Peewee was in, I

1237

01:09:46,785 --> 01:09:48,615

know Theresa would've taken him back.

1238

01:09:50,385 --> 01:09:50,535

Um.

1239

01:09:50,835 --> 01:09:56,625

Um, I know it is difficult

to find fosters and own adopt

1240

01:09:57,165 --> 01:10:00,375

adoptions for senior dogs, but um,

1241

01:10:01,408 --> 01:10:04,077

I think there could have been

an op other opportunities.

1242

01:10:05,248 --> 01:10:05,249

Det. Jim Conroy:

1243

01:10:05,249 --> 01:10:11,308

That one really bothered me for

a long time, uh, that he was just

1244

01:10:11,308 --> 01:10:14,128

so callous and cruel to do that.

1245

01:10:14,128 --> 01:10:14,788

Like nothing.

1246

01:10:14,788 --> 01:10:16,768

There was no thought to it.

1247

01:10:17,068 --> 01:10:21,148

And then to lie about it, because he

did tell her in a message early on that

1248

01:10:21,148 --> 01:10:23,638

Peewee was laying under the hammock.

1249

01:10:24,298 --> 01:10:25,077

Out Sunning.

1250

01:10:25,077 --> 01:10:26,008

Peewee was dead.

1251

01:10:26,038 --> 01:10:30,418

He was making his lies about Peewee, you

know, how he was living life at his house.

1252

01:10:31,288 --> 01:10:36,730

Um, it was just, I was, that's a tough

one, uh, that I really struggle with.