Mike and Chaya sit down with Bradley Lewis Foster, a creative force in the marketing world who discusses his experiences as a neurodivergent entrepreneur and the often-misunderstood traits associated with ADHD. Brad shares on leveraging neurodiverse thinking through different artforms, leading to greater understanding of both himself and the larger world.

We Also Cover:

• The power of embracing neurodivergent perspectives in creative industries
• How exploring different mediums leads to discovering your unique talents
• The philosophical nature of neurodivergent thinking and its benefits
• Finding your authentic voice in a world of conformity
• The importance of trying new things to discover your true potential
• Creative outlets leading to self-discovery
• Rethinking failure as a learning tool
• Redefining success on personal terms
• How neurodivergents are natural entrepreneurs

Quotes:

• "For people who are unhappy with their jobs, which is probably most people, go read a bunch of books, go explore, go do things you've never done before, because you may not ever know in your whole life what your passion really is if you don't do that."
• "I think the people who cannot see your vision are actually pushing you to believe in yourself. So I actually am very grateful today to the people who have rejected me."
• "What we're taught in schools is essentially preparing us to be good little workers, but they're not preparing us to be critical thinkers or entrepreneurs."
• "So if you're just constantly listening to what everybody else is telling you to do, 'be like everybody else, take the safe road,' then honestly, you'll likely fail because it's redundant. What is the point of being someone else?"

About Bradley Lewis Foster:

Bradley Lewis Foster is originally from a small town in Montana and spent over 15 years in marketing for some of the best brands in the world including companies like Amazon, Microsoft, Disney, AT&T, MillerCoors, and The Oscars. He has also helped hundreds of small businesses and developed a marketing training and mentorship program. He currently runs a full-service ad agency called EPONYMOUS that brings the science and methodologies used by top brands to businesses of all sizes.

Connect with Bradley:

• Bradley Lewis's Website
• @BradleyLewisFoster on Instagram
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradley-lewis-foster-5613b29/
• https://bradleylewisfoster.com/books
• Bradley Lewis on YouTube

As always, thanks for lending us your ears and keep igniting that spark!

Stay Connected:

• Website: https://sparklaunchpodcast.com/
• ADHD Coaching & Workshops: https://www.sparklaunch.org/
• Chaya on Instagram
• Mike on Instagram
• Want To Be a Guest? https://sparklaunchpodcast.com/booking

Mike: 00:00:30

Hello there. I'm Mike

Chaya: 00:00:31

I'm Chaya.

Mike: 00:00:32

And today we're excited to welcome Bradley Lewis Foster, an adhder and seasoned marketing professional with over 15 years of experience at industry giants like Amazon, Microsoft, Disney and many more.

He has used this experience to help hundreds of small businesses and developed his own training and mentorship program emphasizing the power of creativity and storytelling in both marketing and personal growth. Currently, he runs a full service ad agency called Eponymous that brings methodologies used by top brands to businesses of all sizes.

Welcome, Bradley.

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:01:05

Thank you for having me. Good to be here.

Chaya: 00:01:06

Welcome. Brad, your bio said you are, you have ADHD and then you have all these accomplishments.

So why don't you start off by talking some of the challenges you might have experienced as being an adhder and then how you overcame and where you are today on your journey?

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:01:27

Sure, I guess, like, for me, I never considered my particular wiring to be something that I focused too much on. I think everybody probably has their own, you know, wrinkles. So I just thought that's just normal. Right. Because that's just how my brain works.

I just figured that's how everybody's brain works. I figured everybody's a night owl who stays up till 2 or 4am because that's just like, why wouldn't you, like, be more productive?

And so there's obviously some drawbacks to it and I think everybody probably has a different experience. But for me, like, I think it can kind of be a superpower if you have figured out how to harness it.

And it took me a while to figure out how to harness it, but I think just like anything in life, it's a matter of like, over time you will figure out who you are. And that's, that's one of your missions in life, is to get to know yourself really, really, really well. I think it's.

It's essentially your duty is to figure out who you are and you can do that in a lot of ways. Traveling, for example, can do that.

Going and being out in nature, finding your tribe, as people say, like going and being around others, meeting other people. Seeing how they see the world and how they approach their, their own problems.

But I never thought of it as, oh, I've got this problem and oh, this is, you know, my burden or something. No, I just, it doesn't. What I figured out in life in order to be successful, it does not matter.

And what I tell people in my mentorship is if you spend your time, or I should say it this way, you are better off spending your time not trying to change the rules of the game that you're playing. Like, if you're playing a board game and you're trying to change the rules, that is a big waste of your time.

Instead, you should figure out how should you best play the game.

And the sad truth is, in life, we're all going to start out at different places and some people are going to have every advantage in the world and some people are going to have none. But you can't change the rules of the game.

So you're better off accepting this is the game we're playing and putting together a really good strategy for how you can win, whatever that means for you. And everybody has a different version of what winning means. So for me, you know, maybe I had trouble staying focused on one task.

Well, that's awesome because that means I'm going to accomplish a whole lot of things if I put in a whole lot of effort. Yeah, it could create some issues with focus.

And maybe I wasn't the most organized when I was younger, but as I got to know myself and I went on that journey, I figured out, okay, Brad, that's part of how you're wired. This is just how you are for whatever reason. So what are you going to do with it?

Are you going to try to change the rules to the game or are you going to accept this is how you are and how do you manage it?

And so these days there's, you know, so many more options and there's so much more exploration into it and I think less stigmatization towards any sort of wrinkles, as I call them. You know, any kind of different wiring, whatever that means. I don't think there's any normal wiring. I think everybody has different wiring.

But I think now that people are much more open about these private matters.

And so I think that that actually really helps people because it's okay to even recognize it within yourself, which I think a lot of people have trouble doing because they don't want to acknowledge it. So that's a really long answer, but I think that's kind of how I approach It.

Chaya: 00:04:24

I think everybody has challenges, right? However, your situation is, what kind of family background, where you're born, all of that is so different from one another.

But I think in life we all have challenges. And you mentioned knowing yourself. I think that is key.

Figuring out who you are, your authentic self, and not listening to the noise of the external world and believing in yourself and in your own journey and going along that journey. And of course we're going to have bumps, different kinds of challenges along the way.

That's part of life and that's where we need to embrace fearlessness. And life is a mystery. Let's just accept that nobody knows what's going to happen next. So if we embrace that not knowing what's next part, we'll.

We'll get to where we need to go.

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:05:27

I completely agree. And by the way, it's okay to make a whole bunch of mistakes.

I think if you have a mindset of living in fear, you will not make many mistakes, but you will also not accomplish much. And I don't mean like from a career perspective or business or finance or anything like that.

I mean that sacred duty of learning who you are, because that's the key to everything. Like, it's like the expression, you can't love someone else until you learn to love yourself. It's that same thing.

Like, how could you go be successful in something if you don't even know the.

Like you haven't read the user manual to yourself, which you will never fully read because you're constantly getting to know yourself and we constantly change and grow and all these things. So I think if you live in fear, you. You're trading that security for realization and accomplishment and ultimately fulfillment.

And I always tell people that we focus too much on happiness and not enough on fulfillment. And the truth is that the more you focus on fulfillment, the happier you will be.

Mike: 00:06:24

In your bio, I mentioned the role art and storytelling play, both personally and in your career as a. As a marketer. And going off of what you were saying, how does art forms sort of connect to that and how.

I guess in some ways, at least how I view life. Life itself is an art form and you can play it a lot like that and curious how that goes for you.

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:06:46

Sure. Well, life is the ultimate creation. Yeah, I think so.

I have no idea if it's a nature or nurture thing for me, but I'm a very creative person, a very artistic person. I have no idea what the combination was that led me to that. My brother's also extremely creative as well. He's in film. Why are we this way?

I have no idea, you know, but so I actually intended first. Like, my first love was not marketing. It was music. And I taught myself guitar. And I've been playing probably since I was 13 or maybe even younger.

It's a great way to express yourself. It's also like, I think everybody, like, meditates in their own way.

For me, it's like writing and playing music for me is very meditative, and it's a very helpful thing. It's like a. A tool essentially for me. And so I actually wanted to be a musician before I ever wanted to be a marketer.

And I went into marketing because I was like, I don't know what else to do. I'm creative. And back in Montana, there weren't many opportunities. So I was like, well, go into business school. It's kind of a safe thing to do.

And so I was like, well, what's the most creative thing that I can do in business? And that's marketing. And so it translated very well. And then when I was right around 27, I started writing, which is now my.

My greatest passion outside of marketing. But I think that I have this expression that I like to say, which is marketing is the art gallery of economics.

And so I think the secret to being a good marketer is being well studied in economics. And it's kind of the secret because it's the study of incentivized behavior.

And so the marketing is just the facade that we see behind actual economics. And so if you can be both an artist and an economist, you'll be very successful at marketing.

Chaya: 00:08:27

You talked about creativity, and creativity is not taught in school. It's not the art class that you take in class and. But how did you find that creativity? Because I have my own creative journey.

How did you find creativity? Because what you're not good at in school and the things that they tell that you're not good at is what leads you to creativity.

I mean, there's a whole connection of not following the rules, especially not following the rules, because we adhders are always dinged for that, not obeying the rules. But if you have that creative gene in you, you are not going to follow the rules. And so on my journey, I had to embrace that.

So how did you figure out you were creative?

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:09:19

I think my teachers would probably say I was too creative. I like to talk a lot and easily distracted and distracting. So, yeah, I mean, I. I think I always had a really good sense. I.

I've always been really good at reading people. And I have no idea, you know, specifically where that comes from. I think part of it is growing up in Montana.

But I've always had a good sense of where the line is with people, especially teachers. So I knew how far I could push them before I would go too far. And sometimes I would, but I've always found that.

And I think part of it is just a fascination and, like, social experiments, maybe. But what a great question. Where does creativity come from and what sparked it for me?

I think my parents would tell you that I've always been creative. I was always telling jokes as a kid and telling wild stories.

Sometimes I would tell wild stories that would get me in trouble, that adults wouldn't be able to tell if I was telling the truth or not. So I think I've just kind of always been that way to some degree. But I think part of it is that I've always had a big sense of humor.

And they say that comedy is rooted in truth. And, you know, the best art is art that is, you know, uncovering a truth or that it's. It's saying something.

So I think really where it took off for me, though, is when I started playing guitar and my mom played, and so, like, she gave me a book and, like, taught me some of the basic chords, but it was very difficult. I don't know if you ever tried to learn guitar. It's very difficult at first. And so I quit three different times before I finally stuck with it.

And I'm really, really glad I did, because once I did, then my creativity really took off. But before that, and maybe this is a good lesson in creativity. Before that, what do we. What do we all do to see if we're creative or not? Well, we.

We draw, right? And I can't draw to save my life, so. So if I was to. If someone said, oh, are you creative? And I would. I would own.

The only thing I had before guitar is my drawings. I'd be like, no. But it turns out I am extremely creative.

It's just the medium was critical that I had to try different mediums before I figured out where I'm creative. And, you know, like, it amazes me how people who can draw or paint really well. Just, like, how does your brain do that?

Connect your perception to your hand? I have no idea how that works and why you're able to do that and why other people aren't.

But it just goes to show that that's why you have to go experiment, get to know yourself. You have to try everything, to figure out what you love in this world.

Because if I never picked up a guitar, that would be such a shame for me because it's brought me so much joy and fulfillment and like I've grown so much through that. Like, I've learned so much about myself and my philosophies and everything else through it. So try everything.

And it's a, what a what an important outlet for people. Like for me, just a great outlet.

Chaya: 00:11:57

Yeah, what a beautiful point. Creativity exists everywhere. Not just art, not just music. It exists in your marketing, it exists in business. It exists, it thrives in freedom.

So we need to find that space to splash that paint or whatever that is and make mistakes. Because creativity is all about making mistakes. Trying out this, trying out that, and what resonates with you, with your heart.

And that's how you create anything. Allow yourself to make mistakes which, which unfortunately in the real world it's not presented. Institutions don't present making mistakes.

You're, you're penalized for that. And, and so we have to seek our own freedom and allow ourselves to, to create that environment where we can create.

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:12:53

I agree very much.

And I would also say something you're alluding to earlier ties in with that, which is what we're taught in schools is essentially preparing us to be good little workers, but they're not preparing us to be critical thinkers or entrepreneurs. And that's too bad.

I also, and maybe it's, maybe it's a product of being from Montana, but I also think about what about the real world skills that we never really learned. Like I think we learned how to grow one bean, you know, but like what a real world skill? Growing food. What could be a more important skill?

Certainly things like finances, investing, taxes, things that you will actually be doing as an adult. When you're responsible, like autonomous, you're not taught those things. You're taught how to have a safe, secure, employee minded job.

And while that's great, it's, that's not an inherently bad thing. It's just like you said, it's restrictive and it doesn't give you the freedom to pursue the thing that you really care about.

And actually something that you said at the beginning kind of struck me too, which is I heard the story of this. A gal who really struggled in school, was not getting good grades, could not pay attention, busy body, you know, really struggled in school.

So her parents came in and the teacher's like, you know, this student really struggling. And the parent, well, what are they doing? And they said, well, she's dancing all the time. She's constantly dancing.

And she's always kind of, you know, playing all. She just loves to play. And it's. It's kind of a problem.

And so then they talk to the principal, and who knows, I'm probably getting some of these facts wrong. But they talked to the principal who said. They asked the child and they said, well, why don't you want to do the schoolwork?

And she's like, because I love to dance. And the principal goes, you have a dancer on your hands. Like, you have some. You have a very creative child on your hands.

So you're trying to turn them into like an engineer or something, but they're a creative. They're getting the complete wrong structure for themselves.

So she went on, and I wish I knew her name, but she went on to be like this incredible, like, costume designer for Broadway. And she's like, won all these awards. Like, she's this incredibly talented person, like, very well esteemed.

But it was all because one person in authority recognized, you know, who's supposed to be developing children recognized. Yeah, we're taking the wrong approach here because we're trying to do a one size fits all. But think of all the jobs out there. It makes no sense.

So I would love more creativity in schools and more critical thinking as opposed to just go memorize this stuff. Trust me, I'm right.

Instead, you know, it'd be great for people to not only fundamentally understand how things work, because I don't really like this idea of, oh, you don't need to know how things fundamentally work because you can just go Google it or go on chatgpt. You should fundamentally understand how things work, but also go pursue what you really care about.

Because even though I have done so much math in my career, I have never used trigonometry. What was the point of that?

Mike: 00:15:37

So much of it is antiquated. So much of it is, as your story pointed out, stuffing people into a box.

You know, you have to go do this because the test you took pointed towards you are, you can be a mail delivery person, you can be a police officer. You can. And this is true of all kids. But I think neurodivergent people in, in general are all kind of are very starving artists in a lot of ways.

You said a lot of education is geared towards the employee mindset. It's very worker B, which is sad on a lot of different levels and, you know, can be helpful to a certain degree.

But when you are getting people whose brains function more like Us, we don't interface with that whole idea as well as maybe some others.

We tend to be able to go off on our own or work better on our own, or are able to create in some form, even if it is something that is, you know, like she wanted to be a dancer also great costume designer, you know, and. And they're related, but it's also using another piece of creativity that she's able to find on her own. And for us, we.

That's why so many, I think, neurodivergent people also make really good entrepreneurs and business owners. Which is funny since most people would peg them as having difficulties with dealing with the minutia of that.

But it's different when it's in our control and it's something we were actually able to focus on and have a passion for. It's all the other stuff, you know, I can probably apply algebra if it's related to my own business practices.

If you just asked me to do an algebra question, I would tell you to get out of my house.

There is needing to be like that change of practicality and real world application to nurture those kind of minds who want to go out and go off the beaten track a little bit.

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:17:32

I totally agree. I mean, I think if it's almost like the more differently that you're wired, the more original your thoughts can be.

One thing that I talk a lot about in music is, you know, a lot of musicians, there's kind of two mindsets. It's either this is a vehicle to make a lot of money and fame, or it's a vehicle to express myself through art.

And if you want to go make a lot of money, you would think, well, let's just go sound like everybody else. Because we know that that's popular and that's the trend. So I should just go do what they do because you know, that will make me a lot of money.

But in reality, how to make the most money is to be original.

Because when Led Zeppelin came out, let's say nobody asked for Led Zeppelin, but they showed up and said, here you go, and everyone went, whoa, this is incredible crazy music I've never heard before. I had no idea that I wanted this sound.

So if you're just constantly listening to what everybody else is telling you to do and telling you, be like everybody else, take the safe road, then honestly, you'll probably be way more likely to fail because it's redundant. What is the point of being someone else? They already exist. Go be yourself.

Mike: 00:18:37

I remember years ago, I was watching A panel with famous voice actor. And it was kind of like a workshop panel, sort of. So it was a lot of aspiring actors and stuff.

One of his pieces of advice was he gets a lot of people who send him demo tapes of, like, doing Fred Flintstone or Homer Simpson and stuff. He's like, yeah, they're all good. They already have people who do that. So, like, you can't like, sending that in as an audition piece.

Doesn't get you anywhere because. Cool. You did that voice we already have an actor for. And I think a lot of that kind of already applies.

You have to kind of find yourself and be yourself. And what are you trying to express with what you're doing?

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:19:17

Absolutely. Yeah. That's a funny example.

Mike: 00:19:19

I like that going off of that as far as what you're communicating emotionally and from yourself, regards to your art. What are you trying to say with that stuff?

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:19:29

I mean, it really depends on the piece, right? I tend to be pretty philosophical. I think one of the reasons why we're here is to pursue truth.

And I think the kind of the catch to it is that you have to know going in is that you'll never get it. But I think it's your job to get as close to it as you can. And so I think I enjoy exploring those kinds of concepts, but it really just depends.

Just like anybody, I, you know, write about love or betrayal, disappointment, excitement, things that are just out of reach. You know, what is God, Why are we here? I love reading. I love referencing history and art and tying things into my music and my writing.

But I also enjoy tying that into my marketing. I think having a really good memory, which is one of my superpowers. I don't know why, but I have a tremendous memory.

It really helps me in marketing, which I've talked to.

Like, I remember in an interview with Amazon there, that's one of their common interview questions is, you know, what would you say is your superpower? And I said, well, I have this crazy memory. And they were like, that's not a superpower.

And I said, well, actually it is, because, you know, good marketing ties into zeitgeist. And even really good marketing can create its own zeitgeist, like the caveman commercial from Geico, which they've recently brought back.

Good marketing can create, as I think about diamonds, like, we have our own opinions of diamonds simply because of the marketing, and the price tag reflects that. So.

So the more that you have both the ability to recall and integrate history, art, all of society, the better your marketing can be and the more it can resonate with people. So they rejected that answer, which I tried to explain it is. And I go, okay, fine, it's my, it's my super creativity.

And they go, okay, now we're talking. Okay.

Chaya: 00:21:16

I think memory is misunderstood in many ways. I feel what they test in school is not real memory. That's the working memory, that's the short term memory. And I suck at that even today.

But I remember deep conversations. I remember which table we sat at in a restaurant 10 years ago. I have no idea how that's going to be useful, but there is an emotion attached to it.

Maybe that's how you remember things. Something that triggered in you for you to remember that well.

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:21:53

I mean that's a fascinating topic unto itself. Because where is memory stored in the brain? It's stored everywhere and nowhere. There isn't a memory center of the brain.

I think there's areas of higher concentration, but there isn't one center. And they've done tons of experiments around that.

I even talked to a NASA neuroscientist about that because I read it and I was so curious if that was true. And she said, yes, that is largely true. And we don't really understand memory.

And it begs this question of is this world of projection and our consciousness exists at a deeper level and our body is just projecting this consciousness. Who knows, maybe that's kind of a weird exception to this world that we think we live like a Newtonian universe.

That if it's a Newtonian universe, then how can that be true? That memory doesn't really exist in any single place. So it just raises a lot of questions about consciousness.

So I think memory is super fascinating and I love this question I heard before, which is if you could go on a vacation for a month and it's your dream vacation, but you wouldn't remember it when you got back, would you go and it's like there's no right answer. It's just it, it brings up the point. Yeah, if we don't remember things, then what is, what really is the point?

Because memory serves such a critical function for growth and self identity.

Chaya: 00:23:05

I would answer that by saying I think it's stored in my body. Even though I might not consciously remember it, it's somehow become a part of me. And for that reason I would go.

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:23:18

I would go too. Yes, absolutely.

Mike: 00:23:22

It's always been an interesting conundrum that I've, ever since I was a kid because I've always been very philosophical and existential and I think a Lot of neurodivergent people tend to be naturally. I always kind of joke that we can all kind of just see the strings of everything. And I've always been sort of obsessed with the idea of, like, are.

Of whether or not we are the collected sum of memory, or we exist also outside of that memory equally. And are we someplace in the middle? You know, if can. If memories were then replaced, do I. Am I still the same individual?

You know, because I think I mentioned this on the podcast before, on my favorite kind of philosophical exercises is the ship of Theseus.

Like, I just kind of love that idea of taking the ship and then slowly removing parts of it, and then is it still technically the same ship once it's all new parts?

And I think about that in regards to myself and how also easily memories can necessarily be altered by events in your life or even by other people in certain ways. And what. Like, how can the core of you remain amidst all that?

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:24:26

Yeah, our own bodies, ourselves, replace themselves. So we are literally not the same person we were when we were younger. So, yeah, it's a great example. I mean, it's even true for us.

Mike: 00:24:38

Talk about your marketing a little bit as well, as far as the strategies you implement. How has your neurodiversity shaped that approach?

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:24:48

Well, I think. Well, the joke that I make to people, because it's. It's common, people will want to hire me as a consultant.

And the joke that I make is that people rent my brain. So. So essentially, whatever wiring that I was born with, that I've received or that has developed therefrom is in demand. So it serves a purpose.

It has, I guess, some inherent proclivities that people find useful when combined with my experience. So, yeah, I. It just kind of happened that way.

I don't know why, but one thing I would say about that is, and again, this is something that I teach in my mentorship program is we think about the gym as a way to get into good health and to strengthen our bodies. And the next time we go to the gym, we'll be stronger, we can lift more weight, but we don't think about our brains in the same way.

And that's a shame, because I remember what I was like, like, my intellect before and my curiosity before I started reading heavily and after. And it did not take many books.

And I mean, difficult books, not just like cheap, easy, fun books, books that make you question things, books that use words you've never read before. I remember the before and after of that.

And so I think both through my experience and my own intellectual pursuits, I have spent a lot of time at the gym for my brain. And that's why it's worth renting it. So if you don't do the same thing, why would anybody want to rent your brain?

And isn't that something you should want? And if you had to choose between someone renting your body or your brain, which would you choose?

Chaya: 00:26:27

What a fascinating thought. And that's why it's so important not to be on autopilot and just keep doing things in an automatic way, but to actually exercise your brain.

Exercise, not blindly exercise, exercise it filled with passion and with the love that you want to do. You should enjoy it.

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:26:50

Absolutely. And it goes back to what we were talking about earlier. The more that you exercise your brain, the more you will find what you like.

And the more you find what you love, like the more you can go find what you love and pursue it in depth. And people make entire careers out of things that they love.

So for people who are unhappy with their jobs, which is probably most people, go read a bunch of books, go explore things, go do things you've never done before, because you may not ever know in your whole life what your passion really is if you don't do that. Probably the best way to figure out what you should be doing, your mission in this world.

Like, I like to talk about potential a lot and I think about this idea that you were given certain gifts when you were born, and maybe they're physical, maybe they're intellectual, maybe they're both. But if you don't try a bunch of different things, you will never find out the thing that you're best at in this world.

For example, I might be the greatest fencer in the world, but I have never tried it. And so I will never know.

But what a shame that it would be that somewhere in the world, and I actually think that this applies to many things, that somewhere there's the greatest fencer that never tried it. Somewhere there's the greatest dart player that ever tried it, but never tried it.

And so the people that we have at these things, who we think are like the all time greatest, may actually be third or fourth or fifth. But it just goes to show, like, go, please explore and figure out who you are and what you love to do.

Chaya: 00:28:09

Yeah, I think there are clues. The universe puts, gives us clues and this is where we have to tap into our instinct and our intuition to actually go try it out. Right.

If the fencing opportunity was not in your radar, you probably were not meant to be a good fencer. That's just my theory. But we are always given hints and clues. So we, I think to.

To bravely tap into those hints, we have to stop listening to the noise from others and just trust ourselves and just go after it and try it out. You don't like it, that's fine. You've actually learned something about yourself.

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:28:54

Absolutely. In fact, that's an important lesson in entrepreneurship because it's. It's very common. There's a lot of instances of this.

The one that I can think of off the top of my head is bottled water.

That the guy who created bottled water, supposedly he created it as his master's thesis, and when he presented it, he was laughed at and said, why would anybody buy bottled water? And he's like, why? Based on my research, I think it actually, there's a big demand for it. And they laughed at him.

And, you know, look at bottled water now. In fact, think of all the evolutions of bottled water to today. And it's something that I tell entrepreneurs.

There is a cycle that happens when you decide to split off from the pack and take yourself out of the kind of employee mindset and say, I have this passion and I'm going to go pursue it. In fact, some of this is bolstered by Chris Gardner, the figure behind the Will Smith movie Pursuit of Happiness.

When I worked at AT&T, he was our spokesman for Business Circle, this small business community that we created. And he's one of the most inspiring people that I've ever talked to, ever met. He's an unbelievable person.

He was talking about how the struggles he went through, which were portrayed in the movie, which in real life were actually even more difficult than what the movie showed, if you can believe it. But he said, as an entrepreneur, and then just in life, he said, don't listen to anybody. And I found what happens when I. Because I.

I've worked with hundreds of entrepreneurs, what happens is when you split off and you take yourself out of the employee world, people will question you, they will laugh at you, they will think you're crazy. They will lecture you, they'll call you and be like, are you out of your mind? Are you okay?

Like, everybody will tell you not to do that because it's not safe.

But it's important not to listen then, because what eventually happens now, not every time you're successful at that, but that's actually not a bad thing because you learn from failure. And at Amazon, that's part of the culture there, by the way, that Amazon views failure as opportunities to learn.

And it's the only place I ever worked where they did not punish failure. They actually. We would have meetings on it. We'd say, okay, what did we learn? That didn't work at all? So what did we learn?

What can we do with this information? Like, it was a very positive approach to failure. Which. It's. Everyone should do that. It's. It's brilliant. You should do it in your own life, too.

So even if you fail, what ends up happening? Inevitably, always, every single time, eventually, if you stick with it, you will succeed.

And those same people who questioned you and laughed at you and did not support you, even take 10 seconds out of the day to write you a review or the most minute thing. Your best friends in the world, your family members, anybody. It's very common.

The second you become successful, they'll tell you how much they believed in you all along. And they want to, hey, can you give me a job? Can I come along for the ride? Every single time? But don't forget that. Don't forget those people.

Don't forget. More importantly, though, don't forget who supported you, because those people will be very rare.

Chaya: 00:31:36

Yeah. There are people who support you and the people who don't support you who cannot see your vision. Right.

But I think the people who cannot see your vision are actually pushing you to believe in yourself. So I actually am very grateful today to the people who have rejected me.

I've forgiven them because they were indirectly telling me it's there in you, you know? So there's always lessons, and we need to learn those lessons from rejection and implement that.

And it's, I think, filling up the shadow side of ourselves and then keep going.

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:32:17

I think it's a beautiful perspective. I totally agree. I think it's important to see the positive, even in negative people. There's essentially two people in this world.

There's the yes people and the no people. And the no people will always be skeptical, and they'll always tell you why an idea won't work. And then there's people like myself.

I'm a yes person, that if I think it's a good idea, then I'm like, well, then we'll figure out how to make it work. If it's the right idea, then there's got to be a way we can do it. We have to bet on our ingenuity. But no people are so fast. Like, that's stupid.

That won't work. You're done. What? And it's so. It's great to View that as. Thank you for that, for that feedback. That only fuels me more.

Chaya: 00:32:54

Yeah, the, I see the no people as people who see obstacles and there are people who see the way. Right. I see myself always seeing the way. So. And the people who see the obstacles could be in your inner circle. That's your challenge.

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:33:10

But they're important too. Like you need, you need that. It's, it's important to not always have that yes brain on.

Like, it's not that it's inherently bad, it's just that your default setting should not be no.

Mike: 00:33:23

Yeah. Because that's a lot of self projection, honestly.

And a lot of, you know, you should be able to be able, you should be able to be objective to pretty much anything and be open minded when you're presented with, with ideas. I think when it comes to a lot of no people, a lot of it is sometimes insecurity, projecting that insecurity onto you.

Sometimes it's a bit of a know it all thing. People enjoy tell saying no to others and telling them why they're wrong. And it's not a good place for growth or actual learning.

Because when it's a no, that comes with some sort of lesson, that's to me, that's a little bit different, that's constructive. That's all right. You're actually helping me figure out this problem when it's just, no, you're an idiot. That's just a brick wall.

There's no fork in the road there. You're telling me like, oh, I should go over on this, on this side. Cool, thanks. You're just saying like, there is no road, just turn around.

So it is a little bit of rewiring your brain in how it reacts to rejection and how it reacts to failure. And that's really with any facet of life, not just professionally, but just with relationships and rewiring yourself.

So whenever you are met with a wall that's been thrown up by somebody, you don't take it as gospel and you don't take it as oh no, I shouldn't have said anything. And I think that's kind of maybe our default.

This is teaching me that if I do try something, I'll be rejected and then everyone will think I'm an idiot. Everyone will think I'm lesser. So I'm not going to put myself out there.

I'm not going to turn myself inside out and show all the parts that, that make up me in this idea or anything else and having to rewire that. So you go, okay, you're Just not the right person that I should have told that to. I'm going to continue to do that. I will take it under advisement.

Thank you for your, your assessment of my work.

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:35:19

I completely agree. Absolutely.

I found that too because you were talking about the insecurities and I found that exact same thing like, or people get jealous or certainly some things are like, there's more at play than what seems at the surface.

And one of the weird phenomenons I found is when I would apply, like after I'd work for all these big companies and I go apply for a job at another big company, one of the difficult companies to get into, I would be very well respected, I would be treated, did very well and we'd have very good conversations.

And of course individual interviewers can sometimes be more or less fair, have their own issues and maybe it doesn't feel like a fair interview or something and their issues are seeping through. But on the whole, the interviews I felt would be very good and fair.

But then when I would go interview at a small company, they would treat me horribly. And I found that so often and I was like, what is that about?

And what I figured out is that a lot of times I'd be talking to someone who had not accomplished much in their career in marketing. And so when they would talk to me, they would try to talk down to me.

I even had one CEO yell at me and tell me I was a liar because there's no way I did all the stuff that was on my resume and I've never lied on my resume in my life. And I was like, that's what I've done. I don't know what to tell you. And he's like, no, you're just a pencil pusher at a big machine.

You know, you're just a cog. I'm like, this sounds like your stuff, my stuff, because I did all that.

I don't know, like I don't know what your deal is, but I found that at a lot of the smaller companies that that would happen is that these people who have their own insecurities, it would start leeching into our conversation. And I'm like, this seems like a win win for everybody to have me come work here, but okay, I definitely don't want to work with you.

And you would think it would be the opposite, that I'd be big leagued at the big companies, but actually I think I could say pretty reasonably that I was treated with more respect at Amazon than at any other company I ever worked for.

Chaya: 00:37:09

Great Point. It took me this long, this many years to figure out that people were projecting their insecurities on me. And.

But once I figured that out, I was like, oh, my God, that's. But they. But they said it with such confidence and plus their position in the job. I believed it was.

I blindly believed the system of power, because the world is built that way. You know, nobody tells you that you have to figure it out yourself. And that's when I realized, oh, yeah, they.

They might have been seeing me from a very colored lens. And. And it. But nobody told me it was up to me to figure that out. So there is that beautiful self and everybody.

And as you mentioned, Brad, every single person has something beautiful to offer. Right? It's not just about career. It's in relationships. It's in just interactions, whatever that may be. But it's up to us to find that.

And once we find that, we should offer it to others. And maybe you can call it a job, it can be volunteering. And that's where you find inner happiness.

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:38:23

Absolutely. One thing I remember I was talking to someone, this is a long time ago, and I was talking about entrepreneurship.

And they said, well, not everybody's cut out for entrepreneurship. And I said, well, most people actually are. It's just, I think in the world that it exists as it is now.

It just doesn't seem like it because everybody just goes and gets jobs with other people, which. There's nothing wrong with that. If you spend your whole career working for other people. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I fully promote it, but I do push back against the idea that most people aren't cut out to be entrepreneurs because we have so much time on this earth. I mean, it's very short, but it is also very long. And so it's impossible to spend it without becoming an expert in something. Like if.

If you're completely unemployed, you've never had a job, and you're 30 years old, and all you do all day is watch the Price is Right every single morning. Congratulations. You're a renowned expert on the Price is Right. You could create an Instagram account around it.

You could create a blog, you could write a book. Like, you are an expert in it. You're an expert in something. Like, it's just we spend so much time doing things, even if it's just eating Taco Bell.

Like, you are an expert in something, you just may not realize it, and you're not doing anything with that knowledge. And some knowledge is just more valuable to society than others. But you will become an expert in something in your life, I guarantee it.

Mike: 00:39:39

Yeah, and we're such a negative reinforcement society that it's not valuable to society because of a lot of archaic rules and ideas of what's important. Like you said, being an expert in anything is honestly impressive. I don't really care what the subject is. It's interesting.

I love hearing people be randomly experts in things I've never even heard of before. Just like, a lot of my special interests are in weird offshoot history.

Things like, sure, people can teach history on like World War II or something like that. But yeah, I can tell you a lot about like, medieval England.

Just like we heard, like, not super useful to my life, but it's kind of cool that I, you know, I got that information and everyone has like an equal opportunity to absorb information and use it in a positive way.

And like, like you said, I think nurturing that in a positive way instead of saying that one thing is more important than the other, like one thing might have more uses, but doesn't mean that the other thing doesn't have any use. And hell, it may just have a use to you, which is still impressive. Like, what's wrong with that?

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:40:42

That's the whole idea behind fulfillment that I was saying earlier. Fulfillment is unique to you. Specifically you. It has like, it's not a team sport. It's not judged by anyone else.

It is purely what makes you happy and feel like you are living your life's purpose.

And if that is being an expert in Taco Bell or medieval history, which sounds awesome to me, by the way, I enjoy reading a lot of different periods of history, so I totally get it. Then by all means, do it. Like, it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks about what fulfills you.

But that's why it's so important, is because whether it pays or not, that is the point of life. Like, you cannot take the money with you either way. So we know that that doesn't matter. So are you growing? Well, what's the way to grow?

Well, thing that you care about doing, becoming fulfilled and learning yourself. So I agree. I think that's one of the beautiful things of life is there's countless things to go explore.

And who knows, there may be something you enjoy even more than that you haven't even gotten into yet. Very likely so for me too, because, like, I really enjoy, like, paleontology and I like ancient history and like all these random things.

And it's like, you know. But I know before I started getting into those things, which means what's ahead of me. I can't even imagine.

Chaya: 00:41:52

And I think fulfillment keeps changing, right? That, that our interest, interest based nervous system that we adhders have it.

What fulfilled us, what satisfied us one time might not satisfy us in this moment. So we need to make that physical shift and, and get on the new lane to pursue our next passion.

And I think a lot of people just are fearful to do that.

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:42:22

I completely agree that that's the importance of not living in fear.

Mike: 00:42:25

Yeah, definitely, 100%. So as we wrap up, I wanted to ask you to tell us a little bit about eponymous and how that got started and your kind of mission statement with that.

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:42:37

Yeah, essentially it's like you said at the beginning, I created the company to help people because I know how difficult it is to be an entrepreneur. It's very difficult. It's stressful. It's a burden that you never have as an employee. You have different burdens as an employee.

It's like, let's say you're unemployed and you're employed or unemployed, you're equally stressed. It's just about different things. Entrepreneurship is just as stressed. It's just about different things, but it's a very stressful thing.

And I admire people who are willing to step out and do things on their own and embrace their own destiny and overcome that fear and be constant problem solvers.

So what I wanted to do is create an ad agency that, as you said, brings the science and methodologies that I used at the big corporations to businesses of all sizes. And I don't think people really understand how much science, how much data, how much philosophy is used at these big corporations.

The ads that you see by McDonald's, Nike, Amazon, they're not an accident. And they're not just, oh, we'll just buy a whole bunch of media. There is so much data.

There's business intelligence teams, there's social listening war rooms. Like you cannot imagine the amount of science that goes into the marketing at these big companies.

So I wanted to bring that to as many companies as I could. And so my team is largely composed of former big tech people, former agency, like big agency people.

And so I only work with really positive, really great, top expert people. And so I've got a great team. And I look for clients who are looking to grow and who are unafraid and want to have the best.

Because one of the other things that unfortunately has occurred for a lot of small business owners is that they deal with very bad ad agencies.

Ad agencies that rip them off, don't help them it's not uncommon when I come in for consulting work to perform an audit on the contracts with their ad agencies. And the contracts are practically unethical, if not literally unethical. I mean, they are horrible contracts that some.

Because these business owners just have no idea what agencies should be charging them. They don't know how often they should be meeting with them, you know, what kind of work they should be getting.

So what I say is, I want to be the best agency that you've ever worked with. And most agencies only stick around two or three years. I want to be the agency that you want to have forever. Because we actually do a good job. We do.

We do good work. We listen, we. We do what we say we're going to do, which is a big problem with ad agencies. So that's what we're trying to do.

And you know, speaking of fulfillment earlier, it's very fulfilling work. And if anybody wants to check it out, it's eponymous agency is the website.

And find me on Instagram at Radley Lewis Foster, they can find me on LinkedIn. I have my own personal website. Bradley Lewis foster.com. pretty easy to find me.

You know, I'm happy to help anybody and I take calls with anybody because I literally just want to help people. And it's not uncommon. I help people for free. Sometimes even I just want to provide useful information.

Mike: 00:45:32

That's. That's awesome. That's what we need more of in, in this world, particularly from the business side of things.

Need more of the helping hand and actually doing positive work in these particular sectors. So thank you for, for doing that.

I hope everybody checks you out and sees what you're offering and just follows along with you for what you're doing and, you know, any of your writing or anything like that as well. Love for people to check that stuff out.

Chaya: 00:45:55

It was an absolute pleasure and fun. We touched so many different random topics.

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:46:02

Absolutely. We really did.

Chaya: 00:46:04

Yeah.

Bradley Lewis Foster: 00:46:05

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on. This was great. Yeah, it was great.

Mike: 00:46:08

Yes. Thank you so much. And we will see you all next time.