In this episode we unpack Chapter 7 — Listening: How Our Filters Impact What We Hear — and explore why listening is one of the most foundational leadership and coaching skills. We discuss the difference between hearing and truly listening, and why effective leadership requires more than simply paying attention to words. We also dive into the connection between listening, presence, trust, and understanding, and how intentional listening strengthens relationships and communication within teams.

Throughout the conversation, we explore the difference between linear and non-linear listening, and how remembering context, emotions, and previous conversations helps people feel understood and valued. We also discuss limiting beliefs and how leaders and coaches can listen beneath the surface to uncover fears, assumptions, and internal barriers that may be getting in someone’s way. Through personal stories and practical examples, we highlight how curiosity, thoughtful questions, and deeper listening can help people grow, build confidence, and move beyond self-imposed limitations.

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Damian Goldvarg, Ph.D. 0:00

Hi, welcome to Lead with a Coaching Mindset, a podcast where we explore how leaders unlock their followers' potential. I am Dr. Damian Goldvarg, and I am very excited to discuss my new book, Lead with a Coaching Mindset.

Elaine Padilla 0:13

Hi, everyone, I'm Elaine Padilla. I'm also coach, and I will be the host of this podcast. We hope that you find this space inspirational and thought-provoking. Let's get into it.

Damian Goldvarg, Ph.D. 0:26

Welcome to Lead with a Coaching Mindset. We meet every other week with Elena Padilla to explore my book, Lead with a Coaching Mindset. And today the focus is on listening.

Elaine Padilla 0:39

Yes, good to be here again, Damien. So, I want to start off with, you know, what made it important for you to make to dedicate a chapter to listening, because you talk about this, like, throughout the entire book. So, why highlight it specifically?

Damian Goldvarg, Ph.D. 0:57

Well, listening is a foundational skill, and we explore all of the competencies are related in one way or another, but particularly listening to all of the other competencies, and in terms of listening is one of the ICF core competencies for coaches, so in my book I follow ICF framework, the coaching competency that that coaches are trained to demonstrate to become professional coaches, use that framework for the book. So each chapter in the book is one of the ACF core competencies, and one competency is listening. So that's the reason why we have such a chapter on listening, but you're right, for all of the other competencies you need to listen, like when you are contracting and agreeing when you are building trust, when you're asking questions. All of the competencies are related, but particularly listening is the one that allows for clear agreement for building trust. If you don't listen, people will not trust you. When you are listening, you are showing presence. So, I think that this is the competency that in some way is related to every other part of the book.

Elaine Padilla 2:08

Okay, so for those people who are not aware of, like, the distinction between hearing and listening, how do you explain that to somebody? Like, what is the difference between hearing and listening,

Damian Goldvarg, Ph.D. 2:22

well, hearing is not a physiological function. It's when we hear people talking, we not necessarily are paying attention to what they're saying. So we can be in a place and there is a TV and we hear the sound, but not necessarily we're paying attention to what is going on, and that happened very often when we are in teams or in relationships, when one person is speaking and the other one is hearing, because they are talking, but they are not really paying attention. So, the difference between hearing and listening is that it is not only a physiological part of paying attention to what people are saying, but also finding meaning and showing understanding. So, when we are listening, we are paying attention, plus understanding what people are saying, and as a result of that, there is a conversation and a connection. We cannot have a conversation if we are not paying attention and understanding what people are telling

Damian Goldvarg, Ph.D. 3:24

important distinction. Because to coach and to lead effectively, we need to go beyond hearing. We really need to listen, we need to spend time, we need to pay attention, we need to be intentional, and we need to demonstrate understanding. So, there is a relationship between listening and showing understanding of what people are saying, and many times there are misunderstandings, because people mean something, but they are understood differently. So we're paying attention, and we are listening. We may check to be sure that what we heard and what we understood is what people said, or what they meant.

Elaine Padilla 4:01

Yeah, so going deeper, you're reminding me of I'm trying to be more mindful. Sometimes I get distracted and realize that I heard, but I didn't understand, and so I'm like, I'm sorry, can you repeat that again? Because I got distracted and I didn't actually understand what you told me, so can you tell me again?

Damian Goldvarg, Ph.D. 4:23

Yeah, no, that's very common, and that is because we are not fully present.

Elaine Padilla 4:27

Yes,

Damian Goldvarg, Ph.D. 4:27

like you go to places and you introduce yourself, and people tell you their names, and two minutes later, what was the name of the person, because you really didn't make an effort in listening and retaining the name, which I heard the name, and keep going.

Elaine Padilla 4:43

Yeah, yeah, I try to do little tricks to remember, you know, their name. If you know, let's say it's Thomas, and then I'm like, okay, this person was tall, it's a name with the T, it's Thomas,

Damian Goldvarg, Ph.D. 4:56

That's smart. That's a smart by association, yeah, that's a really good way to remember things,

Elaine Padilla 5:01

yeah. Because I know I appreciate when somebody remembers my name, but so you know, in your chapter, one of the things you talk about that I found really interesting, I had never considered, or I was not, I was actually not familiar with, but when I read it, I was like, okay, this makes sense, linear and nonlinear listening, that was found that section to be really, really fascinating. Tell the listeners more about about the difference between those two types of listening.

Damian Goldvarg, Ph.D. 5:32

Well, the linear listening is when we're paying attention to the last thing that was, so we're having a conversation, we just talk about remembering people's names, so this is what the last part of our conversation. I remember what was what you said, and I continue on paying attention only to that, but when we're paying attention in a nonlinear way, and where we are listening in a nonlinear way, we're not listening only to what you just said and what was the last thing you said, but also the whole conversation, so that shows up in, we start talking, and I say, or remember Elaine, last time you told me about something related to what you're telling me now, or earlier today you said something that is related to what you're telling me now, so we are listening not only for what's happening right now and what was the last thing you said, but we are connecting our listening to what we have heard on what we know about the person from what happened before in the conversation on other meetings before our current meeting, so leaders who are paying attention and who are listening in nonlinear way, when they're having conversation with people that they work with, they bring to the conversation what they already know that can be helpful to understand them based on what they have heard before in the conversation and in previous conversations, so it's more holistic listening.

Elaine Padilla 6:58

Yeah, no, definitely, especially when you meet somebody new, and they remember maybe the first time you meet them, and they remember something you said earlier in the conversation, it definitely.. it feels better. I mean, it feels like, yeah, they care about what I have to say, but I don't think maybe we may notice when somebody's doing linear listening, but when non-linear is happening, there's a different connection with the speaker.

Damian Goldvarg, Ph.D. 7:30

Yeah, because we feel understood, and the person, by making that connection and by that kind of listening, we feel the person is getting at, getting us, getting understanding as who we are, what is the issue that we're discussing, and that we know they pay attention and they remember something with that happened before, so that bring also closeness to the relationship when we're doing that.

Elaine Padilla 7:55

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I want to pivot to something else that you've covered in the chapter, which is limiting beliefs, and what are limiting beliefs, and what role do they play in listening?

Damian Goldvarg, Ph.D. 8:08

Well, when we're listening, we are not listening only what people are saying, we are also listening to body language, emotions, what is underlying, or what may be saying. So, if we are curious. We realize that many times people's comments or reflections or questions come from some beliefs that they may have, and that they may be aware or not that they are there influencing the way that they are participating and engaged in conversations. Part of the work of coaches is to pay attention to what maybe they believe that people are having, and by exploring them, we can have a better understanding of what be maybe limiting us. These are limiting beliefs, beliefs of what we think is possible and not possible. So, like, you may be talking to somebody and you say, why don't you do this, and the person say, "Oh, I cannot do it, and I say, "How come you cannot do it? Because I don't have the skills. Well, wait a minute. You may think you cannot do it, but I think you can do that, you know. So, so that kind of thing, where we may have limiting beliefs of what is or not possible, and sometimes they are realistic. Sometimes we may not have the age or the flexibility, or or physically in a play where fit to do something like I cannot do a marathon, for example, but you can challenge me, and you may say, well, that's a limiting belief too. If you prepare that, if you really want, you may make that happen.

Elaine Padilla 9:36

Let's start training,

Damian Goldvarg, Ph.D. 9:39

but that's a good example, that's a good example.

Elaine Padilla 9:45

Yes, that's true. Yes, yes,

Damian Goldvarg, Ph.D. 9:50

but, but for example, also about losing weight, like, like I just lost the weight, and I'm very happy because I have some goals, and I accomplished my goals, and it took me a long time to do it. Yes, but I always thought I could get there, but I was not working hard enough to make it happen, and I always find good excuses and reasons why I was not able to accomplish my goal. So I always have really great ideas, but there was a part of me that knew that I could do it, but if I consider the, I was not sure that I could accomplish that. I may have not been able to do it so many times, even though we may have, may take us longer, or maybe obstacles in our way, except that the obstacles are ourselves, we put our own obstacles in our way, so we need to own that.

Okay. Well, so I just wanted to make sure that I was understanding limiting beliefs in this listening chapter a different way of using limiting beliefs. So, would it be, for example, the way you share a story or you're explaining something to me, so then I interpreted a certain way based on my lived experiences, and so then I'm making assumptions about what you're sharing with me, because it's just my perspective, and I can't imagine that there's any other interpretation of what you shared.

Well, this is more in the book, is more from the perspective of me as a coach or as a leader, being curious, or what are the limiting beliefs of others, not your own? You want to pay attention, and you want to listen. What may be in their way to accomplish what they want to accomplish. So, when we are listening, we may be listening in two directions, from the present to the future. So, what is the gap where people are and where they want to be, and we may be listening, and we can see that it's horizontally from the present to the future, as a way to see it visually, and if we see vertically, we can see from the surface to the depth, and when we listen in the surface, people are saying things, but if you start going and exploring underlying what is there, so maybe emotions, maybe limiting beliefs about what is possible or not. So it's a, it's a way, Elena, being curious to see what is underlying.

Okay,

what is not obvious in the conversation is listening beyond the words, beyond people were saying, and being curious to see, okay, what is maybe going on?

Okay. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Now it's clear to me. Thank you. I was wondering if you have anything to share, a story that just highlights the importance of listening, and you know, non and nonlinear. Is there something...

In the book I share a story. In the book I share an example about a limited belief that I had, and my leader challenged me about it, and that was when I was working in a company doing leadership training, and I was new, and it was a process, and in the process, first to learn how to be a trainer, you go as a participant, then as a co-facilitator, and then as a facilitator with feedback, and finally you go and do the training, but my boss called me to the office, said Damien. I need you to go to do this training, and wait, wait, wait a minute, you know this is not how things are done in this organization, you know this is the process, and I was brand new, and she said, well, listen, we cannot go through the process because we don't have time, so we need to send you, you need to go and do this, she said. I know you can do it. I didn't think I could do it.

so my limit is illegal. I cannot do this, you know. I have not done this training, I have not seen it, I have not co-facilitated. It's like Kamikaze kind of thing. And she said, well, I think you can do it. You can prepare. I will help you, you will get some help, you get support, and you'll be able to do it. And I didn't want to do it, and I said, you know, I don't feel comfortable doing it,

Because I knew that there was a part of me that was following company protocol, you know, breaking out of the protocol, and and she asked me a good question about declaring my limiting belief. What is the word that can happen? What is the word that can happen? That's a great question. That's a great coaching question. What is the worst that can happen? And many times in our head, our beliefs are the worst things are much bigger than what we really are. So, the worst thing that could happen here was, okay, that I don't do a good job. So, she said, well, if that happened, what is the word that can happen if you don't do,

yes,

that will get the bad evaluation, and if you get the bad evaluation, what is the word that can happen that will look at the client? Okay, we love the client. What is the word that can happen? I'd say at the end of the day, I am new to Joe, I don't want to lose my job, you know. And she said, don't worry, go, you will get support, do your best, and you will not do your job if things don't go well, so things went well. They have this limited belief that I could enjoy, that I will not be successful, and this is very common and normal. People feel that way, so by having somebody who lives. Them to you and challenge you and goes beyond the surface, beyond the surface. Okay, what's really going on? What is the fear? What is the concern? What is the challenge? That is a great question. Coaching question is what is really challenging for you in this situation.

Absolutely, yeah, that's a great example, and it's really hard to believe that you ever doubted your skills as a facilitator, Damien.

Well, that was too sad. Then that was many years ago, and I was new at that. It was training leaders, and I was new in the company. It was 26 years ago.

Wow, wow. All right. Well, that's it for today, for chapter seven on listening. So we got to understand the difference between hearing and listening, and linear and non-linear listening, which are all great things, all great takeaways, and, and of course, limiting beliefs, the most important thing, right? So, what are those really simple questions you can ask to go deep to understand what's getting in people's way? So great takeaways for those of you who joined us today. Thank you.

Thank you, Elaine. Looking forward to our next session, that we are going to be exploring questions and exploring and going deeper in our conversations, supporting others to pay attention to what they are not seeing through inquiring and powerful questioning.

Great, sounds good. Looking forward to it. Damien.

Alright. Goodbye, everyone. Bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai