Do you want to discover how you can better manage your career?

In the latest episode of the Happier at Work podcast I had a thought-provoking conversation with the accomplished Rosina Racioppi. Rosina discusses her journey from corporate HR leadership to empowering women in their careers, and the key insights she's gained along the way.

We delve into the importance of strategically managing your career, the art of self-advocacy in the workplace, and the need for seeking valuable feedback to understand one's capabilities and strengths. We also explore the significance of networking, mentorship, and embracing curiosity in discovering your passion and strengths.

Rosina shares her perspectives on the challenges individuals face during the post-COVID work environment and the importance of developing a supportive feedback loop for employees.

If you're eager to gain valuable insights to enhance your career, then this episode is for you.

The main points throughout this podcast include:

• The importance of strategically managing your career,
• The need for seeking valuable feedback to understand one's capabilities and strengths
• The significance of networking, mentorship, and embracing curiosity in discovering your passion and strengths.
• The importance of developing a supportive feedback loop for employees.

Connect with Rosina

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-rosina-racioppi-792b941/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/women-unlimited/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/rosinaracioppi

https://twitter.com/womenunlimited

Website: https://www.women-unlimited.com/

Do you have any feedback or thoughts on this discussion? If so, please connect with Aoife via the links below and let her know. Aoife would love to hear from you!

Connect with Happier at Work host Aoife O’Brien:

Website: https://happieratwork.ie 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aoifemobrien/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/happieratwork.ie/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/happieratwork.ie

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HappierAtWorkHQ

Twitter: https://twitter.com/HappierAtWorkHQ 

Previous Episodes:

https://happieratwork.ie/138-stop-being-overlooked-at-work-with-paula-sheridan/ 

https://happieratwork.ie/104-the-managers-dilemma-with-irial-ofarrell/

Mentioned in this episode:

Podcast Live Recording

Register to get your tickets for the LIVE podcast recording: https://livepodcastrecording.scoreapp.com

Podcast Live Recording

Rosina, you are very welcome to the Happier at Work podcast. I'm so pleased to have you as my guest today. Do you want to give listeners a little bit of an introduction to what you do and how you got into doing what you do today?

Oh, well, thank you for this opportunity. I'm looking forward to the conversation. Well, you know, I think of my my career in 2 chapters. The first chapter I spent, leading HR functions, mostly in manufacturing organizations. And during the time that I worked, I worked in the chemical business. I met this woman, Jean Ott, who launched this organization, women unlimited, that partnered with corporations to help them increase women's advancement into leadership in their organization. Jean and I became, you know, professional colleagues as I identified women to put in the program. I was a mentor, to women in the program, And after our youngest daughter was born, I needed to have more harmony in my life.

I left my corporate job, started consulting. Along the way, still staying in touch with Jean who eventually reached out to me and asked me to join Women Unlimited. So I you know, what I love about the work that we do at women unlimited is it's really my heart's work. Because when I was in organizations, I loved helping people find that niche. Right? That that job, that role, that track that spoke to the their capabilities that they enjoyed doing and allowed them to get the momentum in their career. And we do that now on a broader scale within women unlimited because we help women gain that insight that they need to manage their career, and find that the areas that not only they're capable, but they enjoy doing. Right? And to create that momentum for themselves, professionally and personally.

You're absolutely speaking my language with everything that you've just said there. You know, similar background. I worked in market research in the CPG, as they call it in the US, consumer packaged goods, or FMCG, we call it, in Ireland, fast moving consumer goods. So anything sold in a supermarket, basically, Left that almost 20 year career to set up my own business, and one of my areas of focus is supporting women. It's not my sole focus, but it's an area I really care about because I am a woman I am a woman, should I say. I am a woman, and I have experienced those types of issues that only women face in the workplace. I loved how you spoke about managing our careers. So I think it's so important and not something I ever really thought about in a strategic way when I had a you know, I had a career for 20 years as an employee.

I mean, I had I still have a career now, but I had a career as an employee for 20 years. Never once thought about managing my career strategically. So maybe we can dive into that in a little bit more detail to give, I suppose, a bit of my own perspective. And this is what I see a lot of other people, not just women, but people generally speaking, but it probably impacts on women more is just leaving your career to chance and hoping that someone will notice the hard work that you're doing, waiting for an open role or an opportunity to come up in the organization that you're in rather than thinking bigger picture and, like, well, what opportunities are further out there or creating a role for yourself around the things that you've really good at and that you enjoy. So do you wanna talk me through maybe some of the challenges that you see women facing, the women that that you work with?

I think it's that transition, if you will, from academia to our, you know, our career, where, you know, we are successful in school by getting really good grades. We get the good grades and that then we know we're successful. But organizations don't work that way. And and I think there's a fallacy that my work will speak for me. Hard work is enough. And and we hear you know, we've been doing this work for 30 years, and we continue to hear today what we heard 30 years ago from women. I'm not comfortable talking about myself. I want my work to speak for me.

And and that I think is the the biggest lie we tell ourselves. Right? Because oftentimes I don't know about you, but I've been in jobs where in roles where I am functionally capable of doing an excellent job in the role that I'm in. And I really don't like the work that I'm doing.

Yes. Yes. Because I'm a pay off role. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And then so if I wait for my work to speak for me, then what happens is people see me do this work exceptionally well. They just give me more jobs like that where I'm using those skills, but it's not the work I enjoy doing. And what happens to a lot of women is they get promoted, they move along, and they end up getting in this career corner that they don't know how to back out of or get up. And if we don't wrap our voice around our work, then we can't highlight the things that we enjoy. So a lot of the work that we do in our programs with the women that attend is helping them assess their capabilities. Of all the things you can do, what's that subset of skills that when you're doing that work, that's your joy. Like, do you like solving customer problems? Do you like doing anal you know, analytical work? Whatever that is.

And then how do you wrap your voice around positioning? Gee, I when I was meeting with that customer and we solved that problem, I could see how the ripple effect in the organization, you know, were able to build this expertise in the company. You need to be able to position your expertise in a way that the influential leaders in your organization understand what you're bringing to the table. Yeah. What I often say to the women in our programs is your leaders, especially today, are looking at the resources available to solve your organization's problems. If you're not advocating for yourself, if you're not letting them know what you're bringing to the table, they can't leverage you. And if you just wait for your work to speak for you, they're gonna leverage you in a way that maybe isn't really what you want. Yeah. So, you know, we own our career momentum, and this is one way we can make sure that we're getting the momentum that we want.

I forgot to mention. I take notes as I go through, so there may be some gaps. I'm using my trusty remarkable to take notes. But, no, that was fantastic. The we own our career momentum. Absolutely love that as a quote. I want to come back to a point that you made earlier, and this is the idea that I'm not comfortable speaking for myself. And I see this a lot.

As a business owner, I've had to learn to get over myself and do that because if I don't speak about the work that I do, then I don't get business and I don't have a business. So I really had to learn how to do that as uncomfortable as it can be at times. In Ireland, we have this thing called notions. In Australia, I know they have this thing called the tall puppy syndrome. So when you're advocating for yourself or when you seem to be boastful or promoting yourself in some way, other people want to knock you down to size. They want to, you know, take you down a peg or 2. Is that the the biggest fear, or is there something else that you're seeing that's going on that that women as women, were so afraid to speak up for ourselves?

I think I think there's a whole host of reasons. And, you know, for what we hear from a lot of the women in our program, some of the reasons are, there's a discomfort. Like, if I say it, maybe people are going to feel like, oh, no. She's really not that good. Right? That bit of that imposter syndrome. Judgment. Yeah. It's that self judgment.

Right?

Yeah.

It it's also sometimes we are hypercritical of our capabilities. Like, we need to be 100% at everything. A plus plus plus in every avenue when that's an impossible standard for anyone to live up to. Instead, if we view our skills on a continuum, right, if we view our capabilities on you know, in the role that I have today and the role that I aspire to tomorrow, how would my perspective, my skill set allow me to create impact for my company? And that's really the framework that helps us get over, you know, needing to check every box. Right? And and we can then get an understanding of what's the story that I wanna tell about my capabilities so that others who are influential can see that I have a capability, can help put me in in roles or experiences that expand my understanding of the business and expand my ability to create greater impact in the organization.

Brilliant. I love that. And, yeah, the discomfort, and we're so critical of our own capabilities. Like, I have to tick all the boxes. I have to have all of the capabilities. Like, I can't be a big a beginner. I have to have all the answers already, or I have to be an expert already and puts the focus less on you and our own self doubts and more on what impact can I have? Who am I serving here? Who is the end receiver? Who is the end customer of what it is that I'm here to do? Something else I'd I'd love to chat to you about is this idea of knowing what you actually want. And as my career progresses, it's becoming more apparent that most people sort of just landed into the career that they have, and they haven't designed it strategically.

And they're not really sure what to do next because they haven't ever given it that much thought, and they're not sure what they want. Is that something that you see a lot of as well?

Oh, I I see that all the time, and I think even more now when, you know, when I think about what my children and their their peers have gone to school with so many opportunities to have these rich experiences in college that often are in preparation for careers in the corporate world. But when I graduated college, there was a recession and all those jobs went away. So my father said to me, you have a degree. You need to figure out what you're gonna do. And I had worked in the summers while I was in school at, in HR for a large Fortune 50 Corporation. And so I just leveraged that experience to find it was my passion because I I felt that when I worked in HR, I could kinda see what was going on in the organization. You're you weren't doing the work, but you were a part of the work because you were helping getting the people ready to do the work, talking about the organizational design, talking about the systems that intrigued grow and thrive. Mhmm.

I'm intrigued by that to this day. And so I think sometimes you just need to be curious. Like, I was be effective? And there are there are so many people out there that when you pick up the phone and ask them and say, you know, I'm just new to this company. I'm I'm I'm starting a a training department. What are some things I need to be thinking about? And people will tell you, and they'll offer you help. And they'll give you some direction that then helps you create, oh, gee. I like this, then I wanna do more of this, or I'll try something like policy work. Oh, yeah.

I don't wanna do that anymore. So it's like it's a bit of a test and learn. What are the things that when you're doing that work, you're really excited, then how can I find more of those opportunities? Mhmm. I don't think that there's a specific road map. And my advice, especially early in your career, if you're not certain, try on different types of roles. See which ones speak to you, and then you'll know what path to follow.

Do you think that that's maybe one of the downfalls that people are so worried that they don't have it all figured out? And each of the steps mapped out, and I I'm gonna go here next. Whereas, actually, it can be really beneficial and how can I add more value? How can I be more effective in this role? I wanted to to tie this into the idea of knowing what we're good at because, again, I think this is another thing where where women especially fall down. So it's not just speaking about the value we're adding in an organization, but it's actually knowing that to begin with. And oftentimes, we're blind to our own strengths. Do you wanna talk to me a little bit more about that?

But is reaching out and understanding the art of getting valuable feedback to really, narrow the purse your perception. Right? So we all have a perception of, you know, our capabilities. But I don't know if if my perception is accurate. Does that equal what my leaders are thinking about my capabilities? And so I I believe that you don't need to leave it to guesswork, but you could you can refine and and narrow that perception gap by asking some questions. So, when you complete a project or a presentation, you can easily go up to some of the people were And that gives you an an understanding of, gee, in this work that I did, these are the skills, these are the things that were valued.

Yeah.

And that's great because that helps you then say, alright. That's what I thought. Or, gee, I wasn't I wasn't thinking that that was a strength of mine, but nice to hear that people are seeing that. And then this is the great question to ask, which is, if I were to do a similar project or presentation again, what can I do differently to really make it even better? Yeah. Right? So the work is done. You you don't have to redo it, but this gives you additional information, additional insight that next time you're approaching a similar type of work, you can incorporate it. So, you know, sometimes I think when people ask for feedback, they're like, well, can you give me some feedback? Which is a great question, but it's not directed. Right?

Yeah.

You the more specific you can get and especially if you had a So be as specific as you can so that you can make sure that you have alignment between how you're thinking about yourself and how others are seeing your capabilities.

Yeah. I love that. It's yeah. Because it is. It's that perception. And I was gonna say controlling that perception. That might be too strong of a word. But, like, at least managing the the perception that other people have at So I love that.

And, like, what could I do differently next time? It's so easy. One thing I will say is that so many people are reluctant to ask for feedback. I think it's another one of these things that sends a shiver down people's spine when they hear the word. A to to help you to progress in whatever it is that you're you're looking to achieve.

Well and what we see happening too for women, and there's a lot of research that points to this, is that women tend tend to get more transactional feedback. You know, you did good work on that. This worked out really well. Where our male counterparts tend to get more aspirational feedback that sets them up for future roles. I believe, and we believe in the work that we do at Women Unlimited, that that may be true, but we all have the power to change that paradigm. Right? By saying things like, I'm interested in pursuing the VP of marketing role. I've done this work and that work, whatever my my experience has been. What are the things I should be thinking about so that when those opportunities come up, I'm viewed as an as an a potential candidate for that type of role.

Those are questions that we should be asking. We shouldn't be guessing. We shouldn't be looking at others and coming to our own conclusion. We need to do the research. If that's something that we're pursuing, then we need to ask others for some feedback and some thoughts on

that. Yeah.

Would you see me as someone that could be a potential candidate? What roles would I need to take between now and then

Yeah.

In order to better prepare me for that? Mhmm. So those are all questions to manage my career effectively. I need to know those things.

Yeah. And I I think that's that's so valuable to just ask those questions. So first of all, I suppose, find out who is making the decision. Who is in that role already? What was their trajectory? What did they do? When you ask the question, again, I'm thinking, look at the response that you're getting. And if you're watching this on YouTube, you'll see our faces. But look at the response that you're getting about what you ask. And if it's a total shock, if it came out of left field, then there's something going on in how you're managing that perception that other people have of you, that you haven't maybe openly spoken about these aspirations that you have. But I think that gives the opportunity to have some very honest conversations about where the gaps are.

So this is what I aspire to be. You know, and and bringing all of those factors into place while really having a true understanding of what the day to day intricacies role But, yeah, just asking those questions. So I'm interested in pursuing this role. What are the things that I need to do in order to get there? But asking the the right people the right questions, I think, can can really, really help. So thank you. Thank you for that.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's important, right, to, achieve that. And and don't just use one source of input. Right? So we may get one person, oh, we like that answer, so we're gonna run with that.

And that's something I know how to do already.

Yeah. So I'm good.

Yeah. That's a really good sorry. Go on. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I think you need to you need to find, you know, people that are from different pockets of the organization, different parts, people that see you on a regular basis, people that see you once in a while, and get that feedback to make sure that you have the broadest view and the broadest source of input Yeah. So that you can feel more confident in what your final assessment might be.

Yeah. And if I think back to my own career and, specifically, what does it take to get to the I was only looking I I had a new manager, so I I felt like I had to prove myself all over again. He didn't seem to believe that much in me, but we had regular catch ups. And he said, let's catch up every couple of weeks, and we'll review how you're getting on. But thinking you know, reflecting back and thinking, it wasn't just his opinion that mattered, and I should have got input from

several

a little bit more on the front foot and say, listen. This is what other people are saying about my work because he wasn't as close as he needed to be. And at the end of the the agreed 3 months, he said, I don't he he wasn't clear on why I wasn't going to be promoted. And in order to give me some more constructive feedback, he needed to consult the job description, which is the biggest load of Long that I've ever heard. So but it was a really important lesson for me, I think. You know, I'll take that as a valuable lesson that I that I've, that I've heard. So

So I think it's really important, in the work that we do, while the women attend the programs, we also work with their managers.

Yeah.

Because, capabilities as they're creating impact for the organization and their customers. And for managers, not all managers have the capabilities, and I'm gonna say the time. I think that in this post COVID work environment that we're a part of, it seems to me that we are more time compressed than we ever were even prior to to COVID. And so while the manager is focused on organizing work and getting it done, oft And so it you know, the work that we organizations can do to help managers not only understand the value of them providing those critical feedback loops with their employees. And I don't mean feedback by here's what you need to do better or differently. Those feedback loops are, how is this working? What can we do differently? How can we continue to grow your capabilities? That's really what a feedback loop loop looks like. So I think for organizations to focus on how do we help managers be better at that in gender and race creates a broader gap. Right? That you're you're looking to influence across.

You're looking to communicate across. And I will have a lot of women come up to me, you know, women of color say to me, you know, my manager doesn't give me any feedback. I'm like, well, describe your manager. Right? In this world that we're a part of, there's a fear that I may say the wrong thing, so I am just not gonna say anything.

Yeah. So Everyone's afraid to say, what if I, you know, what if I say the wrong thing and it's taken up the wrong way and it's perceived as being, misogynistic feedback, so

I'm gonna help my manager. I'm gonna help my manager Yeah. If I don't get feedback. So I'm gonna help my manager. I'm gonna help my manager

Yeah.

By not just talking about the work that I'm doing, but by asking them questions about how I'm doing the work, what opportunities there might be. So while my manager may not be comfortable today in giving me feedback, I can help them give me the feedback that I need to to continue to grow in my career.

Yeah.

And so it's it's not just the company's responsibility. It's not just the manager's responsibility, and it's not just rise to the occasion Mhmm. If we all understand our role in it.

Yeah. I think it's it's such an important point. First of all, this idea of the the lack of time and compressed time. And as if we didn't have not enough time before, but now after COVID, expectations. This is something I talk about a lot is setting really clear expectations around time and quality, and that allows you to hold people accountable for when they are meeting those expectations or when they're not meeting those expectations. But you have to set those really clear. This is my role. This is your role, and this is what I need you to do.

This is around how long I think it should take, and here is an example of the level of quality. Or this is for something internal. So it's okay if there's typos. Like, don't go an extra hour checking for mistakes or whatever. Or this is going to a customer and it needs to be 99% there. Right. Right. Pretty much.

Yeah, so any any thoughts on on this compression of time then? Like, where where do you think this is coming from? Is this some pressure we're putting on ourselves? Is this organizations are trying to be thrifty by having fewer people doing

what I'm seeing today is, organizations recalibrating post COVID. So we got through it, and we may have, hired more people over during COVID. We responded to COVID to get through COVID. And now we're post COVID, and now we're looking at the organization saying, this isn't the structure that's going to help us get to 2025, 2026 effectively.

So we

need to reconfigure all the deck chairs and reorganize and

hopefully not reconfigure the deck chairs on the Titanic.

No. Hopefully not. But I think what happens is we look at the org. We look at the number of people. We start trimming, but we don't look at the work. Like, there's the structure, but we often don't look at the work that we do. And and like any company, large or small, there's we have habits about the work, and there's things that we do. We and we do it in a certain way, and no one's looking at the relevancy.

So is this really helping us achieve our goals? Does this still need to be done? If so, great. Can we do it more efficiently or differently? If if no, then let's get it off our plate. And I think that's the hard part. Plates are overflowing with work.

Yeah.

And we know that you can't do everything at once, but we're not looking at what are the what are the key priorities of the business this this year, this quarter? How does this work fit into that those objectives? I'll do that work that I know has a clear delineation to the goals. But if you're not getting that input from your leadership

Yeah.

You think that all work is equally weighted

Yeah.

And it's not.

Yes. Exactly. Yeah. And as we're having this conversation, I had a conversation earlier on a what will become a previous podcast episode. So for anyone who's listening in real time, it's an episode that came out last week. But this is one of the things that we talked about is the nature of overflowing plate. People are so busy, but they're so busy being busy that they don't take that step back. They don't take that time to consider earlier point and kinda coming full circle on this, that gives you the opportunity to speak more about the work that you do and how it relates to the team objectives, the department objectives, the company overall objectives, and your contribution that you're making to it.

Not only does that allow you to to share that with your manager, but, again, from research, it shows if we can make a direct link between what we do on a day to day Christina, was there anything else that that we haven't covered? We've covered quite a lot of ground today. Is there anything else that we haven't covered that you you want to share?

I think the last thing that I would say is I think it's critical for people, women in particular, to understand the power of relationships in So who are who are the people in their in their world, if you will, that are their developmental relationships, the mentors, if you will, that can be their resource to help get the input that they need as they're trying to grow their careers and have to recalibrate their skill sets. Mentors are a vital force for your personal growth because they can really tell you what you need to hear. They can, give you the insight and also the support, right, that courage to step outside your comfort zone as you're looking to grow your capabilities. I also think it's important to have, But but back to our point earlier, if you don't have a network that keeps you informed of the key aspects of the business that are critical, You then you're going to fall victim to doing work and have it not be valuable. Right? You need to understand what are the key drivers what to make certain that you understand what's going on in the business and that you are focused on the right things at the right time in the right way for the business? And then you need a network that helps you see around the corners. Right? Who are those individuals that help you better understand the industry you're a part of, or outside your company. Right? Sometimes we get siloed because we don't have time, but we do need to take a step back and understand the broader picture of the organization we're a part of, the industry we're a the industry we're a part of so we can bring it back to say, of everything that I'm working on, these are the things these three things are the most impactful. I'm gonna put my energy here.

These other areas, I'm gonna they'll percolate, and they'll become more important over time, but they don't need my time and attention. And I think well, often I hear, well, I don't have time to network. Well, at a certain point, you don't have time not to.

Yes.

Because if you're not spending time focus on the work, and not think more strategically about what we're working on.

Yeah. Such such a good point. And I think the networking piece, like, beyond anything else, then you hear about potential opportunities industry wide if you've built that network outside of your own organization as well. And I think, Rosina, you've made so many valid points about you can't afford not to network at some stage in your career. You're gonna become stagnant if you don't have those relationships with people. So some things, you know, tying all of this able it's about allowing yourself that time to really critically analyze what are you doing. So you have so much on already, but I promise you, if you spend an hour looking at what you have on, relating it back to, okay, What are we trying to achieve as a team, department, organization? Okay. Who are the people that I need to connect with? Do that focused work that is related to the key priority that you have and build those relationships, then that's when we can start to see a bit of momentum happening, I think.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Brilliant. I've Yeah. So enjoyed this conversation. I think it's it's so honest, and it's so refreshing, and it's so important that we have these kinds of conversations. Yeah. What is what does being happier at work mean to you?

Well, I think for me and and a lot of the work that we do, I feel that we help people find their career joy. You know, when you are in a role that you are using those capabilities that, you know, they are your strengths. Right? And you're doing work that you're excited about, that that yields happiness at work. Mhmm.

So much that you feel excited about it. It is possible. It is possible. The the, the other thing I want you to ask, so I'm sure there are people who will want to find out more about your work, find out what you do, and reach out to connect with you. What's the best way that people can do that?

Just visit our website, which is women hyphen unlimited.com, and you can find out the work that we do. And, you know, if you want to get in touch with me, just pop a note and in in the contact, and I'm happy to connect with you.

Fantastic. Thank you so much for your time, for sharing your wisdom and your insights today. I really, really enjoyed this conversation.

Wonderful conversation. Lovely meeting you today.