Rory and Greg discuss the significant role "third spaces" like coffee shops and libraries have in fostering connections between individuals and creating authentic, organic communities. The hosts advocate for the preservation of these increasingly scarce 'third places,' arguing that they are critical in combating the isolation often brought on by technology and social media.

Greg and Rory also discuss the role skateboarding played in their formative years, and how it introduced them to a community that embraces nonconformity and independent thinking.

This episode also features a segment where Greg and Rory talk about traumatic experiences they had as children, and how the abuse influenced their identity and outlook. The hosts discuss the important role the Standfast song "Elucidate," a song about childhood trauma and abuse, played in Greg's life.

The discussion shifts to focus on the transformative power of shared experiences, the importance of finding ways to show empathy, and the challenges of parenting, particularly in the context of instilling values of autonomy, independence, and communication in children.

Mentioned in this episode:

Behind the Glass

Podcast and gallery focusing on underrepresented artists utilize the space to amplify their work. Curated by @Richardbcolon @qua.jay. Check out the podcast or join them in person first Fridays at 240 E Main St, Rochester, NY! https://behind-the-glass-gallery.captivate.fm

Foreign.

Operating a coffee shop, you know, on the day to day, sometimes you're like, okay, like, yeah, we're.

We want to serve good coffee consistently and treat people, you know, you know, empathetically how they come to us.

But, like, in the broader moments, like, sometimes that get.

The little pieces get lost, and you have to really focus in on, like, hoping that there's a connection being made.

Like, when people come to you and, like, you know, this place is this to me.

Xyz.

And you're like, oh, this is why I do this.

Like, remembering those bigger moments, like, happen all the time.

But the little moments are the ones that are like, wow, this fills me up.

This makes me feel so much.

This is why I do this thing.

Yeah.

And connecting people to things.

Like, same thing at the shop.

Like, there'll be two regulars standing next to each other, and they're talking about the same thing all the time.

Like, hey, do you guys know each other?

Do you.

You know, because you're into jazz and.

And you're, like a jazz, like, musician.

You guys should talk.

And they're like, oh, cool.

And then they start talking, and it's like, you're just the space.

Yes.

Yeah.

And allowing others to exist in that space authentically is huge.

And being able to connect people, whether it's, like, supporting them, helping them with services, or just being what they call now, like, third places.

Like a library.

Yeah, Libraries and coffee shops, they're like the last two third places there are.

And breweries, I think now is a big one.

Yeah, I guess so.

I don't involve myself too much, but that's what they say.

So, you know, it's just.

It's interesting where those people find comfort.

And I think, you know, a beverage like coffee offers that comfort, offers that support.

Library has done that for ages and is such a valuable resource.

And it's so cool that community is still the center point of those things.

Yeah.

It's funny, I was listening to a podcast at one point kind of just about the history of, like, coffee production.

And, like, I think it was, like, in Turkey or maybe.

Maybe it was in, like, France or somewhere.

They were like, oh, coffee.

Coffee cafes.

Because coffee drink is a dangerous drink.

Not because it's, like, unsafe, but because, like, people get together and they're, like, talking to each other, and they're coming up with some radical ideas, and they're like, we don't want these cafes around, like, go to the bars instead, where you get, like, trashed and you can't, you know, like, plot A coup or something.

And I feel like that's still very much present, especially in, you know, the mom and pop authentic coffee shops like Ugly Duck.

You know, I suppose it's a little present in a place like Starbucks, but not really.

You've got like people getting together and having, you know, having like authentic conversations.

There's like this interesting intersection between like community and art too.

And I think of all the coffee shops I can think of, I mean Java's has some interesting art, but you've done some partnerships with artists too and kind of like elevated the profile of the artist and the coffee shop at the same time so it like it's all still there.

And after like libraries, I think of coffee shops and Ugly Duck as a matter of fact, without the WI fi as, as, as like an authentic third place where you can just kind of go and have a conversation with somebody maybe you know or don't know and exist.

Yeah, connection like, like connecting people.

Especially now with, you know, WI FI and Internet and screens being so dominantly placed in our lives.

Yeah, you know, I get that people need a place to work sometimes outside of their homes and need access to that, but we also need access to those things to not exist.

Yeah, yeah.

To, to not be the overcompensing over overhanging fruit that's directly in front of us all the time.

Because we're going to access that no matter what.

Well, and that's the problem that I think exists in, in the biggest way right now, which is most people have most of their relationships, interpersonal or community relationships mediated by some kind of computer screen or phone screen or tablet screen.

And that's helpful if you're staying in touch with people out of town or you know, whatever.

And I do it too.

I'm on social media, you know, it's, it's there, I make use of it.

But like I don't think it's possible to have all of your relationships take place on a computer screen.

That's like psychologically damaging.

And I think that's part of the problem that we see with conspiratorial thinking and this like kind of culture war antagonism where oh, there's this group of people over there doing something I don't like and I don't know anything any of them personally, but I'm going to make it my business to tear them down and attack them.

And I feel like coffee shops, libraries, even hardcore and punk shows, like it's an authentic IRL community where you can have a face to face conversation with Someone.

And yeah, you know, the library has a social media site, and there's all kinds of social media for hardcore and coffee shops.

But I think we're losing track of the fact there's, like, a culture and a people that.

That's just a symbolic.

Like your social media is just a symbolic representation of your relationships.

It's not the relationship itself.

You need to actually see that other person and have a conversation with maybe somebody you don't know, have a conversation.

You don't know how it's going to end at the onset of the conversation.

And I see what you're doing as facilitating that every bit as much as, like, what libraries are doing or the kinds of relationships that pop up, you know, through hardcore, through any kind of music community on a local level.

Really?

Yeah.

I think you hit on some of those, like, main pieces of, like, my life journey, too, in connection with people is that we can make judgments on anyone for anything.

And even my life experience with my brother going through alcoholism and addiction and all these things, like, if you judged him by the person he was 12 years ago, yeah, of course you're gonna think he was a terrible human because he was doing really terrible things.

But if you judge him on the person that he is now, then you wouldn't think that, you know, because he's a different person.

And I believe if you judge a person on what they did or who they are without the potential for growth, that's really damaging for us as a community and us as, like, people.

I'm not saying there's terrible, terrible people out there doing terrible shit like that exists.

But I think if we truly want to build a community and a support network, we have to believe that people can change and grow.

Okay.

And.

And that's something that is super valuable to me in my life and where I've, yeah.

Come from in this world.

And it's.

And since you brought up, you know, your brother, I feel like I can speak to it.

When I, like, got started on recovery, I was, like, addicted to benzodiazepines, which I've been prescribed.

You know, I used them for many years.

Okay.

But once my kids came along, you know, my oldest, when he was born, my psychology completely collapsed.

You know, it sounds silly, but, like, children are terrifying to me.

You know, I had some very significant childhood trauma occur to me between the ages of 4 and 8 that have made me, like, fearful for the children in my life.

I want them to be safe.

And all this awful stuff happened to me in a way that my parents were There, they didn't even notice.

And so I know intuitively, like, love isn't enough to keep a kid safe.

And so when my son was born, I started having like, these awful nightmares that were very much overtly about the abuse I was having or had to endure, you know, when I was like 4 years old.

And so I just began using benzodiazepines, like every night to fall asleep.

And I would wake up in the night and have nightmares, and I would take more because that was the only way I could fall back asleep.

And I would had this, like, mistaken mindset where, like, if I could just get enough sleep, I'd be able to manage the stress of my job, which was becoming more stressful.

And like, I know not getting enough sleep definitely is a trigger for having like a panic attack or, you know, a period of stress.

So more sleep equals less stress equals better life.

And that math didn't actually work out in reality.

That math did not.

Math.

No, it did not work out.

It did not work out.

So eventually I was like, totally hooked and, you know, my life kind of started to fall apart in major ways.

And luckily I was able to, you know, get involved in a recovery program without, like, having any, any major, like, legal or financial problems that so many people encounter.

Our relationship problem, you know, and I had relationship problems.

You know, my wife could do a whole podcast on how tough it was to be with me at that point in time.

But like, you know, it never, you know, I never like, woke up in jail not knowing how I got there.

But I wound up in a, in a, in like an outpatient recovery program, which really helped.

It wasn't the best fit, but it helped get me started.

And one of the first things there, you know, in one of the groups I was participating in was your brother.

And I was like, oh, wow.

I was like, okay, I'm in the right place.

Like, I never announced, hey, I know your brother, because I was like, humiliated that I was there, you know, but I was like, okay, so, you know, here's Rory's brother.

I'm like, this is a good sign.

You know, the universe is winking at me or something.

And I agree with what you're saying about, you know, growth and non judgment.

I think part of my challenge in life was I was very judgmental as a young person in part because I thought, you know, I was a sucker.

I had this like, really negative self opinion that I got like, manipulated into, like, enduring this abuse that I never should have had to endure.

And so I'm Going to be really critical.

Like, what's really going on here?

What's this person's motivations really?

Like, what kind of ulterior motives do people have that they're not actually sharing with me?

And, you know, skepticism is fine to a degree, but it got, you know, for me, mixed with this trauma post traumatic stress response that I would have where I would be super judgmental.

And one of the things that really helped me grow in my 30s was something I heard somewhere.

I don't remember if it was an audiobook or a book I read.

But, you know, tomorrow morning, if I woke up and I was in your body in, like, a Freaky Friday scenario, and I had full access to all of your memories and no access to my own, would I even know?

And I don't think I would.

Like, if I woke up in someone else's body and I didn't remember my life as Greg Benoit and I, you know, knew all their memories, would I make anything?

Would I make any decisions differently than they would have?

No.

And so that really helped me believe, in a way that I never did before, that everyone is actually just doing the best that they can in the present moment.

Now, in the totality of their life, what they do from one moment to the next might not be the best example of their decision making.

But in the context of the moment, we're all just doing the best we can.

I would not do anything any differently if I had lived their life as they had lived it up until that point.

And that really freed me from this trap I had been in where I'm trying to figure out, like, is this a person I can trust?

Is this a safe relationship?

Are they really doing what they're saying that they're doing?

I can, like, separate myself to that, from that to a much greater degree.

And it sounds silly, but that, like, destroyed so many of my relationships as, like, you know, middle school, high school, because I would, like, get the heebie jeebies, or I'd think, like, it doesn't add up.

I'm gonna.

I'm gonna cut them out.

I can't.

I can't handle this.

And I think that speaks to some of maybe something that you stumbled on to maybe a little bit earlier in life that gave you that X factor to help build community, you know, as a younger person.

But I'm grateful that I kind of had those insights and I came to actually believe them as.

As valid and true.

And I'm sure we'll encounter more people on this podcast who've had you Know experiences similar to that.

Yeah, it's wild.

I mean, my childhood was, like, interesting to just even, like, my brother and I spent so much time together.

We were 18 months apart, so super close in age.

But, like, there was so many different elements of life that we experienced together.

Yeah.

And that we process differently is.

He's a little bit older than you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I thought so.

And if you took us side by side, you'd probably.

They're not brothers.

Like, they're totally, like.

I don't think we look super similarly.

We have.

Obviously, if you know us, you.

There's probably things that you could piece together, but, you know, we definitely process things different where, like, he got into drugs and alcohol, and I went the opposite way as a.

As a teenager.

But when we were even, like, younger, I was surrounded by it.

You know what I mean?

Like, I.

I grew up in this city.

I saw cocaine and crack and, like, prostitution and all of that at a young age.

And not that it scared me, but it was just.

It was normalized for me, and it wasn't something that, like, I wanted to be around.

And, you know.

You know, there was drinking and weed everywhere.

But it's like.

And not to say, like, I had a bad childhood because of that.

I didn't.

It was just like, that was normalized in a way that was different.

And I think my brother processed it differently than I did.

And I honestly think, like, to this day, like, I don't.

I think I, like, boxed it up in some place.

I'm sure I'll find it out through therapy at some point.

But he remembers so much more about our childhood than I do.

And I think I put it away somewhere, and I built walls where he might not have.

And so, like, I'll reach out to him.

Like, do you remember this person?

And he's like, oh, yeah.

XYZ this, that, and the other thing.

I'm like, holy crap.

Like, I just.

This person I have no recollection to, and I remember more spaces than I do the people.

Okay.

Involved, which is really interesting.

Like, I remember, like, oh, we were involved in this thing.

We were involved with that thing.

But I don't remember necessarily the specific people or he remembers the people.

Yeah.

So it's really interesting to, like, then, like, step back from that.

Like, okay, we experienced a lot of this together.

And then I went this way and you went that way.

Once we got into the suburban life when my parents got remarried after being divorced and we went out to Fairport.

Yeah.

Well, I'm glad They wound up in Fairport because.

And I didn't mean to interrupt.

No, you're good.

No, I'm glad they went up at Fairport because, like, what you had going with Brian and everyone that was involved with Standfast was, like, pretty critical in my own life, you know, by the time I was, like, I don't know, in middle school, I discovered punk and some friends of mine who had skateboarded where they're like, oh, there's these, like, bands from, like, around here that play this kind of music.

And at that point I was, like, more into, like, no Effects and Green Day and stuff.

But I had heard it, sick of it all.

I had had, like, an epitaph sampler with, like, Straight Face.

There's, you know, some of those kind of more Agnostic Front, like, hardcore and hardcore adjacent bands.

And so, like, when people were like, oh, there's this band, Stand Fast from Fairport, I was like, oh, holy, this is it.

Like, that was the first time I really was aware that, like, this kind of music exists on a local level in my town.

Not just like in Rochester, but like, in my town where I go to high school, these, like, guys are going to high school at the same place I'm gonna go.

And it really just kind of like, opened up a whole world for me, you know, in a way that.

That was very healing.

Like, you know, I'd mentioned the childhood trauma I'd had.

You know, I was abused pretty horrifically between 4 and 8.

And I didn't really know the, you know, the full damage that that was doing to me, but I knew it wasn't right.

I knew I didn't like it.

You know, the.

The physical aspect of it was traumatizing enough on its own, but then you added, like, a layer of, like, psychological manipulation on top of it.

And I've obviously been in therapy.

I've, you know, spoke to that on the other podcast, and I post about it online from time to time.

And one of the things that I've encountered in so many, like, self help books and, you know, podcasts and TV shows and documentaries about therapy and trauma and PTSD is that, like, trauma alters your relationship with reality in a way that you can't go back, you can't come back from.

And the experience that I had kind of, like enduring abuse was similar to this, like, moment of panic I had as a young kid when for some reason I watched my dad take apart a vcr.

For some, I don't know why I was like, all right, you can open stuff up.

And I, like, knew I wasn't ready to disassemble a vcr, but I disassembled one of those, like, little things you'd put on top of a VCR that would rewind the tape when you were done.

Yeah.

So I, like, took that apart because I'm like, oh, it's smaller.

It's easier.

And I took it apart, and I, like, broke some parts taking it apart.

And I was like, I can't put this back together.

I, like, broke this.

I'm so.

My parents are gonna kill me.

I have no idea how much this cost.

I just, like, felt like I fundamentally destroyed this thing.

And, like, that was kind of my.

Like, a mini version of my experience with trauma.

Like, through the trauma, I had somehow disassembled reality, and I did not know how to put it back together.

And I just wanted desperately for it to, like, not go back the way that it was or I wanted it to go back the way that it was and not be the way that it is.

But I was stuck.

Yeah.

You know, it's like I stepped through a porthole to an alternate dimension.

That's another way I sometimes think of, like, the trauma.

It was like a threshold I went through, and it's like, well, the door closes behind you, and now you're in the alternate universe.

It makes me think of, like, when I was growing up, my brother and I would play very rough and how in the house or whatever, but we would at times break the glass on picture frames.

Okay.

And we would just, like.

Like, get rid of the glass and leave the picture frame exposed.

So hopefully they don't.

Their parents didn't notice it.

I don't remember what the ultimate fate of the VHS rewinder was.

If I, like, tried to put it back together and put it there and, like.

Well, maybe they'll just think it's broken and broke on its own.

Or maybe I owned.

I can't remember.

But, like, that analogy kind of like, you know, works because for so many years after, like, the abuse ended through its own course of things, I never spoke up about about it.

To this day, it's one of my biggest regrets in life is not speaking up as a young person.

But I always knew I was, like, damaged from it.

Like, I.

I knew I.

I wasn't.

You know, like, are people gonna find out I'm different?

Are people gonna, like, find out about this and make fun of me?

What.

You know, how is this affecting me?

And I kind of, like, all through elementary school and middle school, I was like playing a version of myself that I thought was, like, this is how a normal person would act.

And when I discovered hardcore and punk, it.

It was almost like, you know, with the analogy of the VHS rewinder.

I didn't put it back together the way that it was supposed to be, but I made something useful out of the parts.

And now I got something to work with that I'm, like, actually proud of.

Like, I have a sense that I overcame some obstacle.

And when I found hardcore punk, that was the experience.

I'm like, okay.

These damaged parts of me that I'm so ashamed of are being spoken to in songs.

I can tell other people have had the exact same thing happen to them or they've had something similar.

And it gave me a sense of, like, pride and accomplishment that I never thought as a younger person I would have had from enduring that.

And one of the songs you wrote in Stand Fast, I mean, at this point, by the time Stanfast had written the song Elucidate, which very much resonated with me, Standfast was already one of my favorite bands.

In part because I like, you know, fast, melodic music, but in part because, hey, these are, like, guys that went to my high school, and, you know, if they can do it, why not me, too?

But now you're speaking to, like, experiences that I've overcome in a way where it's like, there's not a whole lot of songs that are out there.

It was also the first time I met somebody in real life that wasn't, like, a person calling into a radio show or a celebrity or an author writing a book about, you know, surviving trauma.

It was the first time I had met somebody in real life that also survived trauma.

And I was like, oh, holy shit, there's people like this around me.

And I didn't know about it.

Like, I'd known who you were and known you for for several years before, you know, you wrote that song.

So super glad the Van Groes moved to Fairport and you started that band.

Because it really is something that I've returned to, you know, throughout my life.

And, you know, I'm grateful for that, that, you know, I encountered this music and then Stand Fast in the local community that I grew up in Fairport at a time where, like, I was just talking to my brother about this.

And it was just, like, such a cool time to be into music.

And playing music.

So I think I remember from the, like, Instagram, you were a guest post posting on that.

Rochester one.

You moved in, like, middle school maybe to Fairport or beginning of high school, Right?

Yeah.

Right.

Eighth grade.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, like, seventh to eighth grade that, like, end of that summer, moved out to Fairport because I was.

And I was young for my age.

I think I was 13.

Yeah.

Because I graduated when I was 17, so I was 13.

I had just found skateboarding.

Thankfully, moving out to Fairport because, like, I had no friends.

Yeah, it was.

It was such a weird thing.

And we were living in a.

We.

Our house wasn't able to be closed on right away, so my family was living in a motel in Fairport.

So that was just really weird.

Yeah.

And so I was just left to my own devices, like kicking around a skateboard in a parking lot.

Like, I don't know.

No idea.

But the skateboard allowed me to meet people, like, people like myself.

So that was always cool.

Like, I still have a picture of my eighth grade class or whatever.

And there's like, three of us skateboarders, which is really interesting.

And, you know, it was the first time in a long time where I wasn't in the same school as my brother, so my identity wasn't attached to him.

He was.

He was, you know, in a.

In ninth grade.

So he was in a separate school.

As, you know, there's a separate ninth grade in Fairport.

But although it might be going away.

I think it's going away.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, you know, I.

I found a group of friends and one of them lived in our neighborhood ultimately when we got into the house, which is awesome because then that just created that.

Yeah.

Like, friendship of like, oh, skateboarders.

Okay.

Like, you're not hard to find.

There was a time of, like, you know, it was the mid-90s.

And so there's like, small wheels and big pants, which apparently the big pants are huge.

Again, never owned a pair of Jenkos, thankfully.

But, you know, like, Janko pants, I definitely had.

Yeah, I definitely.

Me too.

I never got that ridiculous.

Like, and it was because of skateboarding.

Like, if you try to skateboard in a pair of Jenkos, it was luck.

You can't do that.

It was rough.

It was a rough.

But people.

People went crazy with them, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, and I think the other thing, too, like, being a skateboarder in the 90s was different than it is now because, like, now you go to the mall and there's skateboards and, like, skateboarding's in the Olympics.

And it's like.

And I love it.

I love it.

I'm not talking shit.

I'm not like a jaded 19 year old who's angry because, you know, the thing, the secret thing I like is now on tv, but like, I go to the skate park in Fairport or even the one downtown in the city, and I see like people my age with their kids or like sometimes a little bit older than mine.

My, my kids age and they're like skateboarding as a family and there's like moms skateboarding with their daughters and stuff.

And it's like, it's so cool.

So I think like, in, in general, great thing.

But at that point in time, it was like, it was this edgy, dark thing that like schools kind of discouraged you from doing.

I had to hide my skateboard to get on the bus with it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, they find out you have it with you, they're like taking it away from you and they're making your parents come pick you up and lecture you.

So it was like it.

That appealed to me too, because I was already like a dark, brooding, angry kid because, like, hey, my childhood didn't go according to plan and now here I am.

This thing is like a, a symbol of like my hostility toward the rest of society.

Choose.

Choosing to be othered in a way that was like a positive way.

Yeah.

You know, essentially in my brain, you know, it was like, oh, people that were.

Don't fit in but wanted to do something independently outside of all the, the other tropes that were happening.

Yeah, yeah.

No, it is, it is a perfect sport because it is, it's communal, but you're on your own individual.

Yeah.

You know, it promotes independence in a way that like, you're not gonna get on any team sport, I think.

And that's something I communicate to a lot of people.

It's like it's failing upwards.

It's like ollieing and kickflips and heelflips and all these things.

Like, they teach you that failure is okay because failure will lead to something.

Yeah.

In a bigger way.

Because that feeling of landing that trick after trying it for so long is like, holy shit.

That is like the most amazing thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, I agree.

Totally, totally.

You know, you try something 10,000 times before you get it, and then when you finally get it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's divine.

So to kind of like circle back to a little bit about elucidate Even is that was the last, almost the last batch of songs that Stanfast had wrote.

Right.

What am.

Like who am I?

Like, this thing happened to me.

I can't quite comprehend it.

I also can't.

It's really hazy too.

Like, did this, did I like cover these things up for a certain reason?

Like, this is inhibiting my connection to others.

There's so, so many things.

And you know, I brought, I remember bringing it to band practice and like this is a song that I want to write and like sharing it, letting everyone read the lyrics and everyone was like, oh, okay.

Like, are you okay?

You know, like, it's just remembering it being like, like a very supportive environment to be able to communicate those thoughts and feelings.

And I think without the people around me in that at that time, to be able to express what I was feeling in hardcore and punk in our community wouldn't have been.

I wouldn't have been able to do that.

So confident.

Yeah.

So.

And, and I didn't see other people really doing that at that time, but I did see other people talking about themselves and talking about other things.

Like in a way that folks do it on social media now.

Yeah, yeah, I think you're right about that.

And I kind of haven't considered that before.

But like, even, even if you take the subject matter of elucidate out, like hardcore was a place throughout all points in time and in its existence where like, people can come and have a real conversation about what it's like to grow up in a house where, you know, maybe your dad's gone and your mom's working all the time or your parents are alcoholics and what does that do to you?

And you don't have a lot of places that you can go if you've had like troubled experiences like that where you can just be, hey, this is who I am.

This is what happened to me.

This is how it's affecting me.

And I need an outlet, you know, where I can take the pain from this, do something creative with it and turn it into something that I'm actually proud of instead of ashamed of.

For me, when, when, you know, elucidate came out and that 7 inch came out, that was such a healthy thing for me because I'm like, wow, here's Someone who's like, in my circle, who's speaking to this, they've done something creative.

Now prior to that, I would like, you know, there were tons of other songs.

Like, I think Tori Amos had a song that kind of touched upon things like that.

And like Tom Arnold, the celebrity, he would speak to something like that.

And anytime I would like, hear something like that, my ears would perk up and be like, okay, what do these people know?

How do they know how to survive this and have a decent life?

You know, what can I learn from them?

And it helped me become like, curious about other people in a way that I'm.

I don't know that I would have had a need for, you know, if I didn't have like some kind of traumatic memory lurking in the background.

I also think that's what drives my connection to hardcore and punk, like, the aggressiveness of it, you know, And I felt like victimized and disempowered through much of my life.

And I still struggle with that.

I still feel that.

But when I can like put on certain hardcore records, I put on like Earth Crisis or Agnostic Front or Sick of It All.

I like feel like, okay, now, now I'm like stepping into this version of myself that can handle difficult situations, that knows I can handle difficult situations.

And I can use that skill to help others or I can use that skill to connect with other people who've had similar lived experiences.

And I don't know that I would have had the same need for hardcore in general if I hadn't been kind of responding to this nagging sense of shame and self doubt that never really fully goes away.

Right.

Yeah, I totally feel that because my, you know, those sexual abuse that, that I encountered in my life, like, is, you know, it's still unraveling and it's gonna be a constant.

Like we have kids that we, we.

That's the absolute worst thing.

Yeah.

In the back of my mind that could happen.

And it's not for me.

It wasn't a family member.

So it's like, put it in a situation is very front of mind for me.

Yeah, it's like, oh, like my kid's gonna.

Wants to sleep over at his friend's house.

What does that look like?

Sleepovers?

Like, my kids haven't gone on a sleepover yet, but I'm like, I've already had conversations with my therapist.

I' like, what am I going to do when my kid goes to sleepover?

Like, because that's like a huge, like, trigger point for me.

Like, what's going to happen.

You know, what am I missing that I'm not paying attention to?

Yeah, yeah.

And it's, you know, trying to teach our kids, like, autonomy of their body.

Like, okay, it started.

If you don't want to give your grandparents a hug, that's okay.

Yeah, yeah.

If you don't want to do that, that's okay.

And like, if someone's doing something inappropriate that they shouldn't be doing, telling it like a safe adult, you know, we're not around.

Who is your safe adult?

Like, like make that an actual active part of.

And.

And that's something like, is fucked up.

Like, society seems more up now than it did.

And maybe some of that is my own naivety.

Like, when you're a kid, you don't really know the full extent of how bad things are.

So then when you get older and you do, you're like, oh, it was better back then, but I don't know that it was.

But, like, we're just more.

We.

We're more aware now.

We're access to everything at our fingertips.

Yes.

And they do a much better job telling kids, like, up front about, like, what to be aware of, how to tell an adult, this isn't your fault.

Like, for me, I feel like the first time anyone spoke about it in school, I was like, in fifth grade.

And by that point it was like, done and over.

Like, it started when I was 4.

They weren't going to tell you.

Tell you in kindergarten, you know, so.

Yeah, I mean, like, for all the faults and problems of social media and, you know, contemporary society, it.

It does at least seem like we're doing a better job protecting kids.

But, man, you mentioned in the sleepovers, that's like a huge thing that I think about from time to time where I'm like, I'm.

I'm building, building, building a plan now so I can cope with the stress of it.

Like, I probably won't sleep the whole night the first time my kid goes to a sleepover.

And it'll probably be fine, you know, It'll probably be fine like it is for most kids.

Yeah.

And we've done sleepover.

I mean, grandparents, we've done that.

Yeah.

You know, and we've had cousins, like, group sleepovers and stuff.

And we're trying to build those positive habits, but as you know, the family nucleus is not always the safest place.

And that becomes like, I try not to freak out about it.

And we're in a good place because we've communicated with our kids on that level.

And our oldest is really great about it.

When we moved out to Canandaigua, where we are now, like, first week of school, we get a call.

You know, there was an incident on the playground because, you know, there was a group of kids, and, you know, he was feeling differently about what they felt.

Yeah.

And ultimately, what.

From his perspective, he was sticking up for a kid that was getting bullied, and he didn't like how.

Just like you would.

You don't like bullies.

You know, I know a handful of things about you, but you stand up to bullies.

So, yeah, he's got a spark of me and him and new to the school.

Yeah.

The one kid that was nice to him was getting bullied, and so he's stuck up for him and, you know, face smushed a kid.

And so the first time we go to the school and interact with anyone is, like, getting called to the principal's office, and I'm like, great, okay.

I'm like, I'm sorry, Chris.

Sorry we're doing this.

That's me.

That's part of me.

Because we constantly are saying, like, our kids are reflections of us.

They're our mirrors.

But I love him for that.

I love that he is stepping into those things and will communicate those boundaries and is very comfortable stepping into a situation that is looking to better other people and to be unafraid to communicate what's right and what's wrong from his perspective.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, like, in some way, I think you could be proud of that.

Like, I mean, I.

It's.

It's obviously concerning.

Like, I don't take it the violence, but on another way, it's like, I think you can be proud that, like, he's got the right mindset.

You just got to teach him the right way to cope with it.

Yeah.

And that's.

That's the key, right?

Yeah.

And there we're already dealing with that.

Like, he.

We.

We did, like, a daytime summer camp this past summer, and he was dealing with a bully, and we're already talking about it this year.

Like, how do you prepare?

How do you do these things?

And, you know, we'll see what happens, because we signed him up for the camp, and he's nervous about it, but at the same time, we're saying, okay, this is our game plan.

Yeah.

First step is telling a trusted adult, you know, then telling us that you told that trusted adult.

We'll follow up with that trusted adult.

If it continues to happen.

Well, maybe you do need to take it into your own.

Yeah, yeah.

Hands to get a bigger attention.

Well, and that's like, oh, that's such a healthy thing.

Because, like, when I was a kid, I would just internalize everything where it's like, well, if I'm getting bullied, it's because I'm different.

And on some level, I probably did something to deserve it.

Yeah.

And that was kind of like the mindset, I think, that existed certainly in the, you know, decades before I was born and persisted throughout the 80s and into the 90s.

But now it seems like we have a better awareness where, like, even children have an identity that they need to protect and feel comfortable in.

And it's interesting, you know, you talking about getting a call from the school, because most parents, I think their kids just go through school from kindergarten to senior year, and their kid never gets suspended.

Maybe they get sent to the office once, if at all.

It's like, you know, my oldest, you know, he's got autism, and that causes some behavioral issues.

He's got adhd.

That causes behavioral issues.

First time he got suspended from school, he was in kindergarten.

And I just remember being humiliated because we had to, like, go to this meeting with his support team.

And it wasn't like a shameful, like, you guys are shitty parents kind of thing.

It was like, hey, we recognize he's got these all stem from his neurodivergence.

What can we do to help?

But I just remember thinking, like, oh, God, here I am.

Like, we're in kindergarten.

We're, like, three months into the school year, and I'm having a meeting to, like, get my kid out of.

Out of school suspension.

But that was, like, kind of where the, like, punk rock part of me came in, because it's like, okay, well, he's different.

He's got no choice but to be different.

Just like I had no choice but to be different.

But unlike me, I know he's different, and I can advocate for him, and I can help him kind of come to a sense of peace with how he's different and even maybe to a sense of.

Of pride, you know, so that he doesn't internalize that shame and use it to, you know, cope in unhealthy ways, like addiction or, you know, through having unhealthy relationships or something.

So I guess I'm also glad that.

That you got that call, too.

Yeah.

I mean, there.

I say it all the time, and, you know, I wrote about it in an Achilles way.

It's like, you realize as a parent and people tell you this all the time.

Oh, things.

Things will get better.

Yeah.

You know, this is the hard part.

Things will get better.

I don't believe that.

Yeah, I believe like 100% that, you know, things just change along the way.

Yeah.

Like your parenting, once you feel like you figured it out, it's gonna change.

Yeah.

And you know, it's not that it gets easier.

It doesn't get easier.

You know, it just changes.

It's the evolution of people and kids and challenging and, you know, I hear that.

I hate you, dad.

You're the worst dad.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, you go to bed at night and I still lay down with my 9 year old at night and he's like, I love you.

Yeah.

And it's like, it's about ending the day in that way.

Yeah.

Despite the struggles in the moment that make it, make it so much better.

And that was my day yesterday.

Like yesterday was his birthday.

And at one point in time in the day he was like telling me I'm a terrible father.

And I'm like, okay, well, maybe I deserved it, at least in the moment.

But then at the end of the day, you know, I like, you know, he and I apologize to each other and it was great.

And I'm lying in bed with him and he falls asleep.

And it's, it's interesting because he's 8 and I, and I'll like, you know, it takes him forever to fall asleep.

I never knew before I had kids that this was like there wasn't just gonna be like, all right now kid, you go to go get in your room.

All right, lights out.

I guess that's how I remember learning to fall asleep.

But like, it probably wasn't that way either.

But I also like, anyone on the spectrum, adhd, autism, they like have sleep issues, you know, so my kid is both of them really.

But my oldest is like up just at insane hours asleep for like two hours.

And then that's all he's gonna get for that night.

And one of us is up for the rest of the night.

Thankfully, we're not on that side.

Yeah, no, it's.

It's a wild ride.

I'm really impressed with how much I've been able to do like stress wise at work and physically in the gym while only getting like two and a half, three and a half hours of sleep.

Six hours seems like.

Oh, wow.

Oh, I know, right?

I don't even know that I could sleep.

I don't even know that I could sleep eight hours.

Luckily, our kids will just join us in bed, so we'll get the really crappy kind of sleep.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's us, too.

That's us, too.

Every night.

Ann is the preferred one, too, I think, because at one point, you know, she, like, was, like, nursing, you know, I never had to deal with that.

Yeah.

But, yeah, like, our youngest will just, like, I'll wake up in the night because he's, like, kicking me with his, like, freezing ass cold feet, and.

And I'm like, okay, well, you know.

They'Re wedged in somehow.

Like, Jesus.

I try to appreciate it because, like, on some level, I do like it, because I know someday he's gonna be, like, 17 years old and want nothing to do with me, and I'm not gonna feel like I don't know what's going on in his life.

And it makes me think, like, do.

Do my parents want me to just, in the middle of the night, drive over to their house and climb in their bed and just, like, snuggle up with them?

Because I'm like, I don't want this to end.

Like, you can just.

I'm sure it's gross when they're, like, 15 or whatever, you know?

Like, I think about that from time to time to time, too, but.

Okay, so, like, punk rock definitely shows up in my parenting, in my personality, and I see that it does for you and Chris as well.

Common Thread is co hosted by Greg Benoit and Rory Van Grohl with creative support from Rob Antonucci.

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For news and updates, contact us@commonthreadhxcpodcastmail.com Common Thread is a part of the Lunchadore Podcast Network.

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Ra.