Join Jimmy Vreeland as he delves into a range of real estate strategies, from long-term plays to alternative investments. Explore the profound impact of scarcity on the market in this insightful episode, and tune in for valuable insights and actionable advice to empower your journey in real estate and finance.

Key takeaways to listen for

• [04:28] The importance of shared goals to create a thriving team
• [09:28] Real estate investment tips for high-income earners
• [13:24] Long-term investment strategies for the 2024 real estate market
• [20:28] Alternative ways to build wealth in real estate
• [25:16] How scarcity is reshaping real estate investing

Resources mentioned in this episode

• [01:02] Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert T. Kiyosaki | Kindle, Paperback, and Mass Market Paperback
• [01:56] Kolbe Test
• [05:03] How Leadership (Actually) Works by Larry Yatch | Kindle, Paperback, and Hardcover

About Jimmy Vreeland

Jimmy Vreeland, a West Point graduate and Army veteran, transitioned to the private sector after a distinguished military career. He excelled in sales, then turned his focus to real estate, succeeding in acquiring and managing properties for himself and others. In 2018, he co-founded CashFLow Tactics to empower investors with real estate education.

Connect with Jimmy

• Website: Vreeland Capital
• LinkedIn: Jimmy Vreeland
• Instagram: @jimmyvreeland

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Jimmy Vreeland: 00:00:42

Don't wait to buy real estate. Buy real estate and wait. Stay liquid so you'll never be in danger of losing the asset. And then the math is what? The math is.

Home prices appreciate at 5% a year for the last 70 years. And even in a big crash, they still bounce back to still be on pace for 5% a year.

Neil Henderson: 00:00:56

Well, Jimmy Vreeland, welcome to Truly Passive Income.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:00:59

Hey, Neil, how's it going?

Neil Henderson: 00:01:00

ed that I met you way back in: 2017

I call it the conference that changed the course of my life. But I very vividly remember you and the strategy that you were doing at the time.

And you're not doing it anymore, but you were very memorable back then. So it's great to finally get to talk to you again, my friend.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:01:21

Yeah, I'm glad we can reconnect.

Neil Henderson: 00:01:23

Absolutely.

So, Jimmy, could you share with us the moment you realized that creating wealth wasn't about the conventional paths of fame or profession, but about buying assets? And how did this revelation guide you towards real estate investing?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:01:40

I Learned it in: 2005

You got to be like Steve Jobs, be a great entrepreneur, or be an inventor or be a great athlete. And, you know, I had always dreamed and wanted to be a great athlete, but it just wasn't in the cards for me.

But I had a ton of fun playing sports in high school and college. And then so I was like, cool, I'm just gonna maybe do a military career, maybe be an average Joe. But building wealth?

I didn't think it was on my radar until I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

Neil Henderson: 00:02:12

It's a very common answer. I sort of read the book at the same time. It's not a nuts and bolts book. It's really just a mindset shift.

I credit that book and the four hour work with kind of, like, completely rewiring my brain, made me kind of miserable for a while. When you're, like, still trying to figure out how to actually execute on it, how did you.

Once you'd had that shift in mindset, how did you then go about executing on that shift in mindset?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:02:37

I don't know if you're familiar with the Colby test, Neil. It's a personality test. People like to learn by implementing, acting. They're fact finders, and then there's also implementers.

But in this personality test, I am a 10 quick start. The only way I'm able to learn is by acting. And so when you're deployed you don't have any expenses and you don't pay taxes.

And I was getting combat page. I was making a for a 23 year old guy, I was making a lot of scratch and I couldn't spend any money. More importantly.

So I was sending all my money back to my mom and brother and buying rentals while I was overseas. I saw the concept and then just jumped into it. We didn't know what we were doing.

It led to several family disputes that are kind of funny now, but that's read the book and bought some houses.

Neil Henderson: 00:03:19

,: 2006

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:03:22

And then when people complain about interest rates now I'll never forget like I was on mid to relieve and me and my mom and brother were looking at houses. And now when I was born, my parents bought an owner finance house at 12% and so my mom's like rates are at 6%. They'll never be this low again.

We got to buy now. It's all a matter of perspective. But like they were rentals. So we weathered through the crash and we still sold.

You know, we held them for like 10 years, sold and made 100 grand a pop. Like wasn't bad.

Neil Henderson: 00:03:51

Like people are kind of new. The whole real estate game don't realize that we've got sort of historically average real estate or average interest rates right now.

This is not like historically high. The only thing that was historic was how quickly they went from low to high. And that caught a lot of people with their pants down.

en I bought my first house in: 2005

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:04:15

Yeah.

Neil Henderson: 00:04:15

Which is essentially what they are right now.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:04:17

est with you. I did not enjoy: 2021

So every time I hit the buy button because I do a lot of wholesaling and flipping now, I'm just like, oh, is this the one I get burned on? And then when those rates skyrocket, I got hammered on a few. So I prefer historically average interest rates like we're at right now.

Neil Henderson: 00:04:40

So you have successfully navigated the transition from military service to real estate mogul. Can we call you a mogul now?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:04:48

Now I'm just a dude. I love playing games and I love running teams and I've Been blessed enough to be have that opportunity to do every day.

Neil Henderson: 00:04:57

Yeah. All right, well, I'm going to call you a mogul. You can call yourself whatever you want.

How has your military background influenced your business strategies, especially in terms of like team coordination and leveraging technology?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:05:10

Me and my team, we got coached by a Navy SEAL called Larry Yach. I was an Army Ranger and yes, it is a little painful to me to be saying, hey, my business and military wise.

My two most influential people I believe are Jocko Willick and Larry Yachtsch. So everybody knows Jocko Extreme ownership. When Jocko came out, I was just like, oh, I know all this stuff. Like this is awesome.

I didn't understand how exactly applied to civilian life, but Jocko was does such a great job of showing it how it applies. And so we were able to hit the ground running and implement because I got a bunch of veterans on my team.

And then Larry Yachts wrote a book called How Leadership actually Works. And long story short for Larry, but he believes people are most successful and most happy when they're coordinating action with other human beings.

It would take the course of this podcast to go through the syllogism, but essentially humans are most happy coordinating action with other people because you know, I had this experience and Larry had this experience as a seal. You're in the worst places on earth, but you're happy, you're with a team and you're doing very hard things, very challenging things.

And then he got out, he's doing easier things in more luxurious environments and he's miserable. What's the difference? He's like, oh, I was coordinating actions with other humans and it made essentially teaming with other people. And it's awesome.

It's a ton of fun.

Neil Henderson: 00:06:26

That makes so much sense. I think back on some of the jobs that I've hated, they've been bearable because I've liked working with the people. The job has been terrible.

Retail customer service, like the kinds of jobs that are just mind numbing and I've stayed with them for years because the people were cool and there was this sort of common goal, not to compare it to combat or being in the military, but you often hear that, you know, when guys are in combat, it stops being about the greater world and just about the guy in the foxhole next to you.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:06:58

Yeah, that would match my experience.

Neil Henderson: 00:06:59

What's one thing perhaps from that book that you have been able to implement in your business that you think has really made the most difference?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:07:07

Desired end state for every team member. Like I understand what their desired end state is, is like we don't wake up, me included. I don't wake up to serve my business.

We got to make the business serve us.

And so my team members, we all trade our talents and efforts, we trade amongst each other, trade with the business so that each individual can get to their desired end state. I love my property manager's desired end state. She wants to pay her house off. And now she's heard what I say about leverage.

She's heard, but she wants her house paid off. And so she gets a profit share from the business without interfering with her privacy. I have a rough timeline of when she'll have that target done.

But her desired end state, she shows up every day, she's got a great garden, her backyard, she loves that house. She wants it paid off. She wants it to be hers. And so what Larry shows is that you have to have a desired end state.

And all humans do is get together, trade talents and services, and they help each other get to their desired end state. And so I know each and every one of my team members desired end state, they know mine.

And so that creates a level of vulnerability and authenticity that we all want to work together. And, you know, we're not going to let each other down.

Neil Henderson: 00:08:11

When you say desired in state, is that desired in state in their own personal life or within the company?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:08:17

Both. So we have a corporate desired end state and we have a personal desired end state.

Neil Henderson: 00:08:21

Got it. And how often do you guys review those kinds of things?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:08:24

Every week at our weekly L10 we run on EOS. We've mashed and mixed together, Seal team leaders and eos.

Neil Henderson: 00:08:30

So when I first met you, your company were doing lease option sandwiches. We were in the height of the Great Recession. Well, not the height of the Great Recession, but we were sort on the tail end of the Great Recession.

We were kind of coming out of it.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:08:40

We were coming out of it. Everybody was still scared.

Neil Henderson: 00:08:43

Yeah, everyone was thinking real estate was still kind of scary. So what are you doing now? You said you're doing turnkey, correct?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:08:49

Yeah, we do turnkey. And your passive investors will love this turnkey. And we call them Berkeys. And creative deals. Passive creative deals.

Neil Henderson: 00:08:57

And in particular you were based in St. Louis, as I recall. Before you still in St. Louis?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:09:02

Yeah, St. Louis and Little Rock. We are expanding to Little Rock this year.

Neil Henderson: 00:09:05

Your home base is St. Louis, but the markets you're doing are St. Louis and Little Rock.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:09:09

Yes, sir.

Neil Henderson: 00:09:10

Got it.

So what, you know, the average turnkey, My one issue with the Typical turnkey is that you're buying the future cash flow and you're buying the future appreciation. But most of the value add has been taken out by the operator.

You know, they're the ones that found it, they're the ones who did the renovation and they're handing over a finished product to you. You've got a product out there that you call it a burkey, correct?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:09:33

Yeah, I mean so we wholesale a lot too. I started doing the math and I'm like wait, my local wholesale buyers, what do they want? They want a house that they're all in at 80%.

They'll flip it or they'll keep it as a brrrr. And then I had my out of state buyers, the turnkey buyers. And so turnkey is awesome.

That appreciation with 5% a year and the rent increases, it's a great asset, but it's not a perfect asset. And here is the problem with every people building a turnkey portfolio. Any idea what it is, Neil?

Neil Henderson: 00:10:00

I would say lending for the average person that would just. Top of my head is that a lot of people kind of run up against the lending limits.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:10:06

You made the 20 golden tickets.

Neil Henderson: 00:10:07

Yeah, essentially, yeah.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:10:09

So the reason turnkey really works is macroeconomic factors mixed in with other people's money. And so we can get into that.

So what I found working, you know, we've turnkeyed around 800 houses, but I found like my best buyers, they buy like 7, 8 for me in a year. They're like, I'm like hey, it's the new year. You ready for another seven days? Like Jimmy, I'm out of money.

I don't have any down payment cash and I want them to stay reserves for their first 10. I think they should have three to 5,000 in a bank account for each house because real estate never fails, but the borrower's liquidity does.

So you don't want to get your knees over your toes. Then I'm like wait a minute, I'm selling all these wholesales to bird deals and to local guys.

I'm like why wouldn't I just sell these bird deals to my out of state passive investors? And so that's what we started doing.

Neil Henderson: 00:10:53

So what does it look like for the typical passive investor? Do you have a. Are you calling them up with 10 options of houses they can buy in little rock or St. Louis?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:11:03

Well, I'm going to back up kind of a second. So the people I think we work best with are like high earning W2s who are also generally business Owners or sales, they know how to raise revenue.

Because the other thing I show people how to do is raise private money to then buy the brrrr's cash.

Neil Henderson: 00:11:21

Interesting. All right, you buried the lead there. I think you were trying to get to it and I cut you off. So explain that to me further.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:11:27

So I believe it's the only subsidy a middle class American will get is a 30 year mortgage. If you're poor, you get a ton of subsidies. If you're rich, you get a ton of subsidies. It's the forgotten people in the middle.

And so you can complain about it or you can just look at the system and say, hey, what's out there for me? And a 30 year fixed mortgage, if you buy a $200,000 turnkey, if you buy 20 of them, it's $2 million worth of leverage.

And where else can you go and get $2 million worth of leverage? I believe every American has a patriotic duty to get these loans.

And then after you get to 20, you know, do your syndications, do whatever you need to do, but got to get that leverage really, regardless of the interest rate. And so everybody is going to most likely run out of their own cash.

And so the other thing about most successful middle class Americans is I believe they don't know how to fully leverage their W2 by getting those loans. But then especially the sales community and the business owner community, they know how to raise money, they're just not raising it for themselves.

I show them a few quick tips and tricks and then they're able to raise private lending money and then start buying deals, cash and then refiing them out.

Neil Henderson: 00:12:30

I'm a syndicator and so typically the kinds of people we're working with, they're already high net worth individuals. They're not typically middle class, although a few of our investors are middle class.

And so one of the things I love about I always tell people if they're trying to get started in real estate, you're probably not going to get started buying into a syndication unless you're a doctor who's earning $400,000 a year already.

If you're somebody who's just earning $100,000 a year a syndication, it's going to take too long for you to save enough money unless you've been packing away money in retirement funds for you to make much of a difference.

And I actually encourage people to start off, it's okay starting off in single family rentals, like you said, that's where you're going to get the most Leverage, they're going to subsidize you. As far as I know, there's no country in the world that does 30 year mortgages like we do.

And that's one of the reasons our real estate is such a huge wealth builder.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:13:17

Yep. And then another problem with turnkey just being open and honest, it's. You'll run into a capital deployment issue.

So that's where the syndicate, if you have a ton of cash to deploy, the fastest way you'll get that money to work is a syndication. I think we're discussing an order of operations type thing.

Neil Henderson: 00:13:31

Totally.

that best ever conference in: 2017

And then you start running into things like accredited investor. What's an accredited investor? Oh, I'm not an accredited investor and I can't do that. So how do I get to become an accredited investor?

Well, I start building a portfolio of single family rentals and eventually that's going to get to the point where the equity in that is equal to $1 million. And guess what? Now I'm an accredited investor and I've.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:14:06

Had a few buyers that that's what they've done to be get their accredited status.

Neil Henderson: 00:14:10

It just takes time. And people, Americans are not so patient.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:14:14

I had a funny discussion about this with my ads guy. So he pushed me like, jimmy, get an offer that's like a microwave so people know they can make money right now.

So, you know, I could teach a wholesaling course, which I don't want to do because I think it's boring. And then we can get into wholesaling a little bit. But I was just like, no, people who need microwave money, we will not work with.

I don't want to do that. I'm not selling ketones. I'm not selling how to lose 20 pounds through a course with ketones. I'm selling a course about building wealth.

There has to be a time horizon.

Neil Henderson: 00:14:41

Everybody wants it to happen yesterday. And then the reality is, you know, real estate's not a rich fast, get rich slow.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:14:48

Name one thing where you get wealthy fast.

Neil Henderson: 00:14:52

Luck.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:14:53

No, I mean, I would say like the lottery. You're rich, you're not wealthy. And the data on lottery winners is atrocious. Even like you could say, oh, Pat Mahomes he's only 27. He got rich quick.

Like, no way. I guarantee that guy's been, he was grinding since he's been seven years old.

Neil Henderson: 00:15:11

Look at Taylor Swift. Yeah, Taylor Swift's a billionaire now. Who knew what she wanted to do at age like eight and has been relentlessly pursuing it since she was eight.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:15:22

What's the saying? Overnight success, 20 years in the making, Something of that nature?

Neil Henderson: 00:15:25

Yeah, something like that.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:15:26

So, I mean, sure, anybody on the Internet can make up anything to dispel that fact or you could just accept it. And to work, you're in the single.

Neil Henderson: 00:15:35

Family market, so you really have to have, and you're working investors, you really have to have your eye on the macro economics in the market.

I've heard you speak recently about these topics, so I want to broach it with you is how do you analyze the current real estate market cycle and what indicators suggest to you where we are in the cycle?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:15:56

I mean, there's one overall thing. There's no supply. The first, you know, four cycles of a market, the cycle before recession is hyper supply and there's no supply.

ble right before the crash in: 2006

ere licking their wounds from: 2008

Neil Henderson: 00:16:29

What do you think was the cause of that? Did all the builders just get wiped out? And the ones that didn't just kind of step back and said, yeah, we're not going to push it.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:16:38

That's exactly what happens. Like everybody, I don't want to experience that again. I'm not doing that anymore.

Neil Henderson: 00:16:43

Everyone, you know, there's so many people out there right now. I mean, I feel bad.

There's a whole generation of people that are sort of watching the acceleration in the price of homes compared to their income and it's outpacing it.

And some of them keep waiting for, well, at some point there's going to be a crash again because I watched my parents lose their house in the Great Recession. So there's going to be another Great Recession and, and real estate is going to drop again. I'm just going to wait for that to happen.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:17:10

I've done some interesting math about waiting. So I did the math based off, hey, what if I waited for interest rates to drop or A crash.

There's so much opportunity cost because of the financing, because you're using leverage, that waiting is generally not a great idea. You're not really going to save because if everybody's waiting for rates to go down, most people predict that prices will go up.

And so whatever saving in rate, you are now paying for in purchase price. And so it's just like my philosophy on real estate is don't wait to buy real estate. Buy real estate and wait.

Stay liquid so you'll never, like, be in danger of losing the asset. And then the math is what the math is. Home prices appreciate at 5% a year for the last 70 years.

And even in a big crash, they still bounce back to still be on peak pace for 5% a year.

Neil Henderson: 00:17:58

You were showing a chart on a podcast I saw you on recently where it showed the number of years where there was a decline in home prices over the last 70 years.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:18:09

Yeah. You want me to find that and bring that up?

Neil Henderson: 00:18:11

Sure. I mean, yeah, go for it, man. Not many people watch the video, but it'll be a great for me to talk about it.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:18:17

I love this slide. You don't bet against the champ, Neil.

Neil Henderson: 00:18:19

Bring it up because, you know, I'd like it in front of you so we can talk about it. And it's almost like with the same thing with the stock market.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:18:25

of increase or decrease since: 1941

And five of those years were during the Great Recession.

Neil Henderson: 00:18:44

I mean, so you're talking the little area with a nice long period of red in there. That's what, five years?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:18:50

Yep.

Neil Henderson: 00:18:51

And then outside of that, there was only one year. Is that what I'm seeing?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:18:54

Yeah, you're seeing exactly correct.

Neil Henderson: 00:18:56

You know, you got to be careful in saying, oh, well, you know, real estate only goes up. But the data kind of shows real estate mostly only goes up.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:19:03

You can look at the other side of the coin. The American dollar is always going down because they're printing it. They're continuing to print more money.

So I'm not sure if real estate goes up based off inflation. It still goes up. Not always. But here's what I know. I know there's certain certainties. It's that the government will continue to print money.

Like there's nothing that's really going to ever be done about this inflation issue. It just is what it is. And so, I don't know a better hedge than in real estate. The funniest thing for me in my rental portfolio is my 360th payment.

I can't wait to pay the bank back in worthless dollars. Like, that's always amused me.

Neil Henderson: 00:19:38

That payment is based on an agreement.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:19:40

You made 30 years ago.

Neil Henderson: 00:19:42

Yeah, exactly. This is close to politics as we'll get. You know, just looking at the overall way our government works is.

I always compare it to, we're sort of like a business where half the managers want to just cut revenue and the other managers just want to raise expenses. And nobody will ever really do what they really need to do, which is as a business owner, you need to cut expenses and increase revenue.

And you know they're never going to do it. There's no way. It's political suicide for either side. So we're constantly caught in this. Like you said, they're just going to keep printing money.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:20:13

This is an idea I got from Ray Dalio, but I don't know if you've seen his YouTube video, how the economic machine works. At the end of the video, like, the only solution to this is to become more productive. That's a great thing about being American.

Like, we are the most creative. You know, when our backs against the wall, we figure it out. And so it's like, all right, we're in a pickle. We're just going to out produce it.

We're going to figure it out. So that's why I'm generally always an optimist.

Neil Henderson: 00:20:36

I'm in the same boat. I remember the first time my dad sat me down and taught me how to just invest in the stock market. It was just amusing. Mutual fund, all that.

And he said, you know, a lot of people are afraid to invest in anything. Stock market, whatever. It's like, oh, my God, what happens if it all crashes?

And he says, well, if it all crashes, you're not going to be worried about your stock portfolio. You're going to be worried about a lot more fundamental things than that, and it really won't make any difference.

So like you said, don't bet against the champ, Bet on the champ, and chances are you're going to win. And if you lose, then you wouldn't have won anyway because the whole world has come apart.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:21:10

Yeah, I mean, there's some major catastrophic things have to happen. That's why I really believe real estate works, is because here's why I think it's really hard to get wealthy with traditional financial planning.

It's all on you. You're either tax deferred or after tax dollars. And I don't think you can get wealthy that way.

Now if you can learn to responsibly be a steward of other people's cash, the sky's the limit. And if you look at the wealthiest people, they're able to steward other people's cash.

Neil Henderson: 00:21:35

My partner Clint and I often describe it as you have to play offense, you can't play defense. And you know the traditional way of retirement.

It used to be when they created the 401K and the IRA, that was supposed to be one leg of a three legged stool. It was 401K, Social Security and pension funds.

Well, as soon as companies started contributing to your 401k, well, they got rid of pensions right off the bat.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:22:00

Right.

Neil Henderson: 00:22:01

And I'm not as pessimistic about the future of Social Security as other people, but still it's down to a two legged stool. And most people have not done a great job of playing offense in their 401k or in their retirement funds.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:22:16

I think it's a little bit designed that way because you're giving that responsibility to your financial planner or the corporate financial planner guy. And so I think that's another reason why I think you're seeing that phenomenon.

Neil Henderson: 00:22:29

When you say giving responsibility, who are you talking about giving responsibility to? The average planner or.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:22:34

Yeah, you're not doing your homework. You're not looking with these alternative investment classes which are out there, they're everywhere. They're hiding in plain sight.

But you know, you just got blinders on, say hey, I'll let my financial guy do it. And I'm sure they do a great job for what they're told to do or what their licenses allow them to do. I had never thought of it that way.

Like essentially alternative investing like you and I do, it's a third leg. What should the fourth leg then be? Liquid savings.

Neil Henderson: 00:22:58

Yeah, I mean that's essentially just cash.

The whole financial advisor industry, I mean, not to knock them, but there's a couple of reasons they never really point people in the direction of alternative assets. One, because they can't sell them.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:23:11

Well, their licenses prohibited too.

Neil Henderson: 00:23:13

Correct. And so they're usually.

And they're paid often based on how much either commissions on you buying and selling those equities or they're paid on your net worth of like how much money assets under management you have. So they're not going to really be all that keen on you taking some of that money away and putting into some alternative asset.

I always tell people, look, invest in mutual funds, sure. Put your money in Vanguard Index 500. It's low fee, but set aside some money to play offense with.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:23:45

I agree with that completely.

Neil Henderson: 00:23:47

So given how severely short on houses we are in this country, how should investors adjust their strategy to capitalize on that scarcity?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:23:57

That's a great question. Single family. I, like I said, I got rich in my niche, and so I'm not in multifamily. I don't know that much to speak that intelligently about it.

But I think what's going on with single family is remember how when you and me grew up, there was like Tom's Hardware store on every town, right? And now it got institutionalized and Home Depot and Lowe's just institutionalized everything.

I think if you buy now, you're on the ground floor of that in single family, of it becoming an institutionalized asset. And so 30 years from now, 10 years from now, when you want to sell it, you're going to sell it off as an institutional asset.

And that part of me, since there's no inventory, like, get as much as you possibly can while they're still getting. Because part of me is like, as a turnkey provider, I might be put out of business because hedge funds are going to scoop everything up.

I'll just become a wholesaler and sell to them. But the turnkey game could go away. We'll still manage properties, and those properties will continue to climb in value.

But it's the new inventory in the future that kind of concerns me the most.

Neil Henderson: 00:24:56

And it's the concern is that we talk about this a lot, is we're going to become a renter nation.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:25:01

So you got to get in on the high side of renter nation and be the landlord.

Neil Henderson: 00:25:05

And unless there's some sort of legislative hammer that comes down where they try and at least stop hedge funds from coming in and buying up all the inventory, which I can't see anytime soon.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:25:18

In my reading of American history. There's the man, right? Like John D. Rockefeller, Bill Gates, all those type of guys. I think the safest place to be is the level right below that guy.

So you're not like a target for the government. Like when they took Standard Oil and make it. Made Rockefeller break it up, tripled his net worth. But they're like, we got the big guy.

And he's like, okay, so that's all the hedge funds will do is like whatever's defined as A hedge fund.

They'll stay aligned below the hedge funds and continue, continue to buy these assets because there's no other asset out there where you win in four ways. With depreciation, cash flow, the ability to use leverage and tax advantages. And people know that and they want it.

Neil Henderson: 00:25:51

What's your prediction on interest rates over the next 12 to 18 months?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:25:57

I don't know. I don't care.

Neil Henderson: 00:25:59

You don't care? Why don't you care?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:26:01

Because you date the rate, you marry the house. I personally think rates going down will be horrible for investors.

What I've been selling to people is like, hey dude, once it goes below 6%, the funds are coming back in and then you're out.

Neil Henderson: 00:26:15

Anybody who's been in, I don't syndicate multifamily, but I know a lot of multifamily syndicators and that's how a lot of them got into trouble. Into trouble because rates were so low they were having to compete. I mean, it's just absurd.

I mean, 28 offers on a multifamily project and they were having to basically just drop trial to get in and just acquire the deal. And so then they started getting into these absurd rates and adjustable rate mortgages and things like that.

And that's really where they got into trouble. And you know, I'm in self storage. We're kind of quietly over here in the corner, like it's not such a, not such an unknown asset anymore.

And the rates, interest rates going up has certainly slowed us down a little bit. But it's also, there's not as much competition anymore.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:26:58

en all this was going down in: 2021

Maybe you're a really responsible investor and you're running your numbers at a reasonable interest rate where the guy next to you is unreasonable.

Sure he'll default in five years, but he'll overpay and he'll get the project today because he's not running his numbers at reasonable interest rates.

Neil Henderson: 00:27:25

Last question.

Is there a lesson that you learned from either your father, your mother, or another mentor the taught that significantly influenced your approach to business and real estate investing?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:27:38

I'm very tight with both my parents, both of them, lots of lessons. But I think the story I like to tell the most is in high school basketball, I was a sophomore in varsity, so I thought I was super awesome.

I thought my, you know, whatever didn't stink. And I wasn't getting enough playing time. And so, like, I was complaining to my mom, and I'm like, coach sucks. I'm not getting enough time.

And she's like, whoa. She's like, you don't dribble well enough to play enough. And so she got me two chairs and a blindfold.

And she's like, 20 minutes a day, you're going to dribble around these chairs blindfolded. And so my parents were this great mix of expectation, empathy. Like, it was a perfect masculine, feminine mix.

I always knew I was special because of my mom, but, like, the fact that she didn't be like, yeah, Jimmy, that coach, he's a big meanie. So it's like a version. It's maternal, extreme ownership. I like to think back to that moment, be like, I didn't get what I wanted. What happened?

What could I do to get better? And so that's blindfolded basketball.

Neil Henderson: 00:28:36

You got to put in the reps. Yeah. So what happened? Did you get more playing time?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:28:41

Yeah, my dribbling got it substantially better. But if she had just told me I was special and you're the best, Jimmy, it would have created a sense of entitlement.

I wouldn't have had as much fun playing basketball. So that's a great example, I think, encouraging parenting.

Neil Henderson: 00:28:55

Well, I think we'll end there, Jimmy.

I so enjoyed this conversation, and I wish my partner Clint had been here to enjoy it as well, but he's off on a beach in the Dominican Republic sipping tropical cocktails. Not that I'm bitter.

If any of one of our listeners want to reach out to you, find out more about what you're about, what would be the best way for them to do that?

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:29:15

Probably LinkedIn or Instagram. So I think I probably pop up pretty easy.

Jimmy Vreeland Real Estate V as in Victor R E E L A N D and then I'm coming out with a new website, but it's not up yet. So our website's vreeland-capital.com and then I'm just Jimmy Vreeland at Instagram.

Neil Henderson: 00:29:31

Well, Jimmy, this has been great. Thank you so much, man.

Jimmy Vreeland: 00:29:33

Yeah, Neil, I appreciate you having me on.

Neil Henderson: 00:29:35

Thank you so much for listening and watching the Truly Passive Income podcast.

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