I discovered AC as they were in charge of a moderation at the French Ambassy in Berlin.

The situation could have been tricky due to a lack of time, but AC owned the stage and made it into a very inspiring and empowering moment 🗣

In this episode, AC is sharing their experience from guiding meaningful discussions up to deeply understanding how to engage audiences 💥

You will learn:

1️⃣ The essential skills of a moderator

2️⃣ The balance between preparation and improvisation

3️⃣ How to captivate an audience and keep them engaged

4️⃣ The evolution of conferences and networking events

My favorite take away:

➡️ Moderation is not just about asking questions, it’s about creating a journey for the audience.

➡️ You need to go where it hurts immediately, so the real conversation can happen.

Enjoy!

✍️ Notes on https://www.berlindetoi.com/ac-coppens

💌 Subscribe to the newsletter (FR) at https://substack.com/@berlindetoi

⭐️ 5 stars and a kind comment to support and promote the podcast ⭐️

Hello, everyone.

Welcome on the podcast show.

My name is Gabrielle, and I'm delighted that you're joining us for this conversation.

When I arrived in Berlin a few years ago, I was struggling creating a network, professional

as personal, and I would have loved to hear discussion and conversation from inspiring

and engaged people living here.

This is the purpose of the podcast Berlin de Toit.

In French, German, English speaking conversation, we're going to meet these incredible people,

which makes this place so awesome.

So thank you for tuning in and see you soon.

I'm a Berliner, probably born in France and made in Berlin.

Yeah, and then I'm also a moderator because I have also this performing and acting background.

I've had some actors training also as I was in New York, but also here in Berlin.

Welcome everyone on the show.

And today I'm more than delighted to share our conversation with AC Coppens.

AC Coppens is a strategist, conference curator, host, and a TED speaker moderator.

They founded the Catalyst, an agency for innovative and creative players working at the crossing

of digital tech, film, XR, music, sound, design, and culture to turn conferences into sites

of knowledge exchange and co-creation.

I saw them perform, as I like to say, or moderate on stage, and it was an absolute blast.

In this conversation with AC Coppens, we really talk about the mastering of the art of moderation.

And they gave us so much takeaway, how to organize the discussion, how to go deep dive

where it hurts immediately.

And it was a super fun, interesting, and profound moment.

So I hope you'll enjoy it as much as I did.

Thank you very much.

Let's go.

I didn't knew this whole background when I first saw you, actually.

I had no idea who you were.

You came on stage and I was blown away from how you took it.

So you still have something very magnetic or charismatic in a way.

And you have this capability to capture the attention of people, to make us go away with

a lot of information and insights that we learned about.

And you also have this moderation part where you keep it very in flow.

I saw you perform as a moderator in a situation which could have been tricky because of a

short time that was shorter than what was expected.

And you mastered, and you took the best out of a difficult situation, or you didn't even

take the best.

You just took the situation and turned out to have the best out of it anyway.

Basically, I remember a situation.

I was supposed to have a panel for an hour and then we had, I don't know, 20 minutes

or something like that to finish because everybody was late.

And I remember I went straight to the insights and then I asked only one question to each

one.

Okay, I know you have two minutes, but it was great because the audience had the results

of what we wanted to share instead of, you know, like the German would say, labern, around

a thing like blah, you know, so we went straight to the point.

I like that very much.

You really went straight to the point.

And the other thing is you were very honest.

You let the emotion and you took us with it in a way which was not at all comfortable,

actually.

It's interesting to use, I'm giving clear guidelines and still make it excited.

You know, it's kind of guideline and excitement doesn't always work that well together.

It's good.

I mean, it's a live entertainment, I would say.

You need to to work with what you have in front of you and with you, the people you have with

you and on stage and you have the audience, obviously, and it needs to be with the audience.

I think I would not see my work without the audience anyway.

This is the last thing I'm going to improvise and never improvise moderations.

Actually, I always prep.

I think it's the secret to make it really work.

Of course, I can have great conversations with people because I mean, my job is to ask

questions and you can and people love to talk about themselves.

So this is great.

So you can always have great conversations.

But if I do not know them, I will take time to get to the point to see, OK, where is it

really interesting?

And then if I have two or three people, because the art of moderation is really to be with

more people sometimes.

I mean, at least two, of course.

And you want to go to the point where it's really interesting, because most of the time

you're going to do this not just to have a nice conversation, but to share it to an audience.

I don't want to bore the audience.

I want the audience to be there for the second one, to stay with it and to be like, oh, my

God, you know, I'm just coming back from the Berlinale and somebody in the audience would

say to me afterwards, you know what, with you it's impossible to have a look and check

your mails when you're talking with your panels.

Everybody has to listen.

And I'm like, yes, this is exactly what I want.

You know, I don't want to have everybody on their phones or something.

Otherwise, why are you there?

You know, do you want to be part of this conversation?

So you need to imply the audience.

Right. So if I want to get there and get the best and arrive at a point in the

conversation which is leading to some kind of interesting insight.

So it brings you as an audience further in your thoughts, in your inspiration,

in understanding the world.

Or I don't want to miss the point.

So that's why I want to prepare.

So I read about the speakers and I want to say I'm far too far away to be alone.

I mean, I have a team and they help me to prep like what did the speaker do before?

When did they speak? What did they say already?

Because I don't want to repeat conversation.

And there is a lot of these conversations.

Right. So you want to have these specific constellations with specific topics and etc.

So you you're like, OK, what are they bringing and what did they talk about recently?

And then you want to integrate this and say, well, listen, you said that before.

So now what's your point? And etc., etc.

So you need to know where is where is the speaker coming from, from which perspective?

Then you can organize your moderation guideline.

So you want to have this and to explore first.

You have the definition. OK, great.

And then, OK, well, this is the first hypothesis.

Oh, great. OK. Oh, but there is a contrasting.

And then, oh, you have the end.

Oh, let's put it all of this together and transcend what we've been talking about before.

I think I'm very French in that way.

But of course, I don't do like thesis, antithesis and etc.

It would be very boring.

But I need to have these key angles to to articulate the conversation.

And very often also I announce it on stage.

OK, we're going to do this.

We're going to talk about this.

Then we're going to go and we will do this and then we'll finish with that.

And I want that promise.

And I want to so I organize my time for the conversation

so that I know we're not going totally over time.

It's always so very short.

I mean, the trend is definitely to shorter formats.

People do not want to stay.

But most of the time now you would have like, OK, we have six people

and we have 30 minutes.

You're like, yeah, this is going to be on point.

And this is where the prep is essential, because you need to go

where it hurts immediately so that you want to have it out of the way

and, you know, have it clean and discuss.

Otherwise, I'm obsessed to

make sure that the content is given to the audience.

I'm obsessed to deliver that promise.

Yeah, you make sure that people get what they're looking for,

which also requires a huge amount of courage.

Because you have to get the information,

you have to have the speakers being true to themselves,

because this is the thing I've seen sometimes in a moderation.

You put a note like a music note and people will align on this.

And you have such a huge role as a moderator to make sure that

the excellence where the people will say, OK, I have to show up

to be as good or as precise or as detailed.

So you can you know, so you have to affirm yourself

in your position to make people go like react on this.

And this is only one part, because the second part is

you have to captivate your audience.

I I did one or two moderation, which is nothing to compare to what you do,

because we had like 40, 60 people in the audience.

And I saw how the speakers reacted, which was something I didn't thought about.

So they wasn't they weren't that comfortable, for example.

And then you have to deal with this,

deal with the audience and remember what you want to talk about.

Oh, I don't remember what I want to talk about.

I need my notes.

Otherwise, I can't remember what I want to talk about.

It's just so much.

And then you get derailed and you you need to be really on point.

So I'm very strict with the with the guidelines somehow.

But I still at the same time, I allow this flexibility.

I mean, it has to be otherwise it's really boring.

You cannot offer scripted content.

First of all, you are the master of the time.

And this is really the most important.

Very often I make the joke, I'm the CTO, not the chief tech officer,

but the chief chief time officer.

And this is super important to deliver the promise within the time,

which is also attributed to this thing.

And we know what we're talking about. This is how we met. Right.

But I think you have many things you have also to make sure

that everybody on stage is really going to to talk.

They have been invited to talk.

So you have to be careful that not one speaker is taking the whole

room, the whole space is not too invasive.

So you want this to be also balanced.

You need most of the time. It's really great experts.

So you want both.

You want all of them to to to speak

with a sort of well, somehow equal times. Right.

I'm always thinking of political debate.

Somehow this is they are entitled to speak

in a time which is like, you know, respectful for everybody else on stage.

So it's the time.

It's, of course, the themes that you are covering.

And it's also, yes, the way they have to feel on stage.

It's also the way the audience is.

I love to interact with the audience even during the conversation.

You know, I'm turning to them.

I wonder, what about this? And do you think that?

And then I check, you know, like who is OK with this?

And so that they are keeping it.

And you talk to the audience the same way you talk to the speakers.

So you're as you have the same ex exigens.

Yeah. Some kind of demand.

Yeah. Or expectations.

Because you're you're also in a certain way hard with your speakers, host experts.

And at the same time, you're like public audience.

Do you have a question? It's now or never.

And I want to answer now.

And it's so good.

I know. But this, you know, sometimes it has been reproached to me.

I mean, you learn always like that.

I was threatening the audience, you know, like, yeah, but this is really this is,

you know, it's now or never, really.

And I have to ask who reproached that the audience or someone

who was not in the audience, because there's a huge difference.

I think the audience liked it.

Yeah, that's another story.

But I would say this is something that I mean,

I think I bring a good dose of humor.

You know, I mean, I'm not threatening the audience.

No, you're not.

And I want to engage the audience like, you know, the consolation.

And this is why I'm really so obsessed with time

way beyond the stage is that we we have so little time in life.

I mean, time is so scarce and it's a huge countdown.

And we we really need to move on

and also to stop talking and act.

So let us talk. Let's make good decisions.

Let's be informed about how we want to think about the future.

So let's do it now.

And we have a unique constellation of people on stage.

They are there for you.

You're not going to have them in that way for this conversation ever again.

So now I don't have the time to say all of this right when I'm on stage.

But now I'm telling you, it's now or never.

Do you have a question to the speakers?

So actually, the right word is empowering.

Yeah, exactly. Empowering the audience.

You said at the very beginning

that you organize and prepare your moderation quite precisely.

How much do you have to be an expert to talk with experts,

with an audience which usually are not experts at all?

Well, it depends.

I don't research so much.

I keep it so genuine as I can so that I can.

The audience can identify

with me.

So I'm the one not knowing and I'm asking them stupid questions

or easy questions to speak so that they are transmissible to the audience.

They are transferable, translatable to the audience.

So I am the bridge, so to speak.

Otherwise, if it is experts in the room, I mean, just coming back

from the Berlinale, it's only film professionals in the room.

It's the industry sessions.

And I'm on stage with experts and they know what they're talking about.

And I'm not a film and game techie expert.

So, yeah, but I would research, obviously.

I will research about the speakers, research about the themes,

what is hot, what is coming next.

So I know a couple of things, but I'm not the one doing it.

So I would research what I do not know.

I would read quite a few things and then I would extract

what are the most important questions, what are the most important trends

and what is relevant to the audience today.

And then I would structure the conversation around that

so that it really turns around that.

What does the audience want to get out of this conversation

when you're invited or asked, for example, to do a moderation?

People say this is what we want to have at the end.

Or it's more about we know that you're competent.

Please do it, that we have a good moment.

I mean, what is this?

No, I would say, I mean, most of the time, the head of curations

that we're working with, because most of the time

we are not curators of any conference, we are co-curators,

actually, of any kind of conference, because the clients tell us

this is what we want to discuss.

And they say something like, hey, we need something to talk

and to inquire into this.

And we want something about the trends in this field and etc.

And but they ask us because they know that we know a little bit about it.

So then we elaborate on that.

I mean, people coming to conferences are coming to to learn something.

So they don't have the degree of expertise, mostly of the

of the people on stage.

Mostly, mostly, I would say.

I have to ask a tiny question, please, in relation with

artificial intelligence, Internet and everything.

Do you think there's going to be more conferences?

Or less, because they're going to be everything online,

or do you think this meeting in person in a room?

Oh, yeah.

It's something that's going to stay and become even more important.

I don't know if there will be more conferences.

I think that the business of conference is going to change.

That's for sure.

Because I think that, you know what, I don't want to go to conference

and see panel, panel, panel, keynote, panel, panel,

maybe a little far as a chat and then, yeah, you know, let's have a drink.

And that's it.

I mean, it's so boring.

And I'm reading so much about the development of the business.

And maybe it's very difficult because sometimes you have clients who are like,

hey, you are an innovative conference.

You you really you could do something new, you know.

And and even the super innovative kind of like, yeah, yeah, of course.

Yes. And I'm like, yeah, maybe let's do a shorter format and do this

and then invite that and et cetera.

And then they would like.

And in the end, you have the grid and you have an hour panel, an hour panel

pose, an hour panel, keynote, an hour panel.

You're like, oh, my God, you know.

But on the other hand, I remember working for the European Commission

where you would think, like, oh, are they really innovative?

And yes, they were super.

They would be super open.

And we we did really super innovative and experimental formats for them.

And it was great.

And first, the people would say, like, I'm not sure they're going to talk.

And then everybody would talk.

And we could not stop them talking, you know, with the audience.

It was crazy.

And yeah, OK, great.

You know, so it is something that I really like to do

and to conceive.

And I think that we need more of this.

What is the relevant format for your audience and for the topic

you want to discuss?

And also, there are so many conferences that people don't know

where they need to go.

And it's also very pricey if you go to those conferences

and you have to travel and the hotel and everything.

So which conferences are you really going to go to to make business?

To make deals, to find ways to develop, and it doesn't have to be business

can be also creative practices, right?

So where are you going to go?

And you will need to know and you will be picky.

I don't think this is going to be online.

And because we have more AI, the more AI we will have,

the more human we will need to get.

And we will need to have this kind of trust.

And this will be live.

This is not going to be with a screen.

I don't think so.

I don't think I mean, you will need not a robot on stage.

You will need a moderator able to feel the room.

And able to say, this is what we're going to talk about.

And we need also people meeting and shaking hands

and looking deep into each other's eyes.

And can we work together?

Who are you? How do you, you know?

And it's also like, what's your smell?

Can I smell you? Then I can work with you.

You know, otherwise it's not going to work.

And I really do believe this.

And I think it's going to be even more important.

So the events we change, I hope

we will need some new kind of networks and networking.

We will need definitely new formats,

sometimes less interactive, sometimes more interactive.

We will have to be way more curating this really.

So the crafting part

is also part of your work, right?

Mm hmm. Yeah.

You go to which point do you push this?

So, for example, sometimes after Muslim moderation or the talk,

you know, you have a cocktail party and now and then you see that

people always go in the small groups of people they know.

Would you also enter that area and organize

how people interact with each other as the audience?

Oh, yeah, we actually do that.

We do curate also dinners where we put people together.

Yeah, yeah, we do that.

Or we pick an expert to speak at a dinner, for example.

That's the kind of things also we do.

You should do something nice.

You should do a proper networking event.

You should have people able to curate this life, so to speak, like on location.

How did you learn all of this?

How do you work like digital notes?

Did you research?

I'm talking about the organizational part.

It's a lot of experience, first of all, because attending a lot of conference

where you're bored to death, you're like, OK, I never want to have something

like this ever again or daring to explore formats.

And then we yeah, we do also research.

I mean, at Ars Electronica, we tested a very ancient way,

indigenous way to wave

things and discuss in a round circle.

And so we had people

working with Rafia and and and and talking about AI at the same time,

which was pretty good, very people were very deranged.

You know, they were like, what are we doing here?

And it's great because you are putting them in another perspective.

And so we read a lot.

We we invite experts in specific formats or so to to do it.

And I love also to I don't know, for example, a fishbowl, right,

which is classically you have two or three people in the middle of of

circles, so to speak, and like an aquarium.

That's why it's called fishbowl.

And then the people around them is the audience are looking at them

and there is a free seat and people would come from the audience and speaking.

Sometimes I like to explore and say, OK, so we can do this.

But then we're going to do something specific.

We're going to ask every row.

And then this is what I call the wave out.

And then we we we ask the people in the audience in the circles

to elaborate on key questions.

And then we have some people summing it up

and then we bring it back to a wave back, so to speak.

And then we have all the answers flowing back in the middle of the of the circle.

And then everybody can, you know, like close the thing.

So you need two or three hours to do that.

But I mean, it is something which I like very much.

And it has no name, right?

Well, I'm just coming back from

Ted Nix, which is going to I was in Ted Nix a couple of months ago

and there was a great new format.

I loved it.

And I asked him, you know, like, how did you do that?

There was three people on on stage.

And it's a we I mean, I was invited to Ted Nix

to launch the new 360 degree stage, which is quite a challenge, I must say.

And the the the next speakers

were three people on stage, and they decided to divide the hour

in 20 minutes every time there was a new moderator

animating the discussion with the two others.

And when the time was gone, they would change seats or stand up

and take a next chapter.

It was very engaging, very, very nice.

We talked a little bit about persona.

How do you prepare yourself?

Do you have a specific outfit?

Do you have like a training?

Yeah. Do you have a perfume?

No, I always have the same perfume and I always have the the same outfit.

Indeed, I think it's belonging to your own branding, actually.

No, I just like to wear suits, so I always wear a suit and

and a white shirt or something like that, you know, depending

because sometimes white shirts are not good for the studio or something like that.

So you have to be careful if it is taped or not taped

and if it is a studio or not a studio.

But otherwise, I'm always in the same outfit and prepare myself.

It's just like being performing.

You need to go in this stage frequency. Right.

So I'm I'm very used to it.

So you can have me jump on stage from zero to 100 immediately.

But otherwise, it's good to I love to to be in a separate room

and read my notes and be totally concentrated

to be really in the sphere of the conversation I have to moderate.

I need to be very much with myself and very concentrated so that I

I need to know my line.

Where do I guide these people to?

This must be imprinted in me, so to speak.

So I will read my notes, my guideline, and I have many options

because I don't want to have a said it's not scripted content.

So I just need to be flexible enough to engage them in a conversation,

which is super interesting.

And it needs to be something which I did not prepare

because I need also to be surprised.

Otherwise, I'm going to get bored myself. Right.

But I need to bring them back to the guideline.

And also I brief my speakers in advance so that they know.

So we're going to have three parts.

So please don't talk about this in the first part.

Not about this in the second part.

So that we can cover it in a way which is digestible for the audience.

You can say anything in the first part, in the second part, in the third part.

Please, can we keep it that way?

So I need to bring them a bit so that we can explore this together.

And I mean, I'm aware when I'm telling you this, it looks like I'm so,

super prepared, but believe me.

80% of what's happening on stage has not been really discussed.

You know, it's just like, what are they saying?

You know, and it's great.

You know, it's great.

You I'm asking because I'm also curious.

As I said, you have different individuals

that you have to bring together on stage to talk about something

and go in the direction that you are bringing them to.

Do you have sometimes authority?

Difficulty is a problem where you have to frame very harshly.

Or just did you have from experience a way of seeing it

at the beginning that is enough?

I made the mistake like a lot of moderators at the beginning

as I started to have to prove myself

that I could be in the round with them and speak to them and that I knew.

So I would do very long intros to prove

I knew about the scene and et cetera, et cetera.

I understand that. No, it's I don't have to prove anything.

I have to make them feel that they are the experts and they are.

I'm not. I'm definitely not.

So it's not at all about me.

It's just like I need to be the facilitator

and they need to be the experts.

That's for sure.

So we will interview the speakers most of the time in advance

to see what are they really coming from?

Because sometimes you have an ideal speaker and you talk to them.

You're like, no, wait, this is not what I want to hear.

And this is not the expertise I wanted to have.

So maybe you place them to another conversation or something like that.

But otherwise, you would have

it's part of the research to make sure to train them.

Also, like, make your point, go to the point.

Don't do like AC in this moment to talking like freely about anything,

not having a look at the watch.

It's the format. Yeah, I know.

It's a form. I don't know.

Otherwise, otherwise I would be like crazy looking at the time all the time.

Like, OK, we're over the time.

You talked about being on high energies

during the stage and the performance.

Yeah, it's more a specific frequency.

It doesn't have to be energy.

I mean, yes, it's a specific energy.

That's for sure, because you need the energy to be able to to carry this. Right.

But how do you come down?

Yeah. And how do you regenerate?

You know, you know what I mean?

Yeah, I know what you mean.

I've been also a manager of a music artist for a couple of years.

So I know what is the post show syndrome.

And I know it.

And I think that any attendee also of a conference, you go to a conference,

you are for two or three or four or five days with hundreds of people.

Everybody's talking.

You have all these dinners, networking events, loads of drinks and etc.

And everybody is this collective experience of being life around

something which is putting you together a common interest, common business,

which is so close to your existential

issues, so to speak.

So it is something which is which is existential somehow.

And then suddenly you go and there is no one.

You're alone on the flight.

You go back at home and maybe you are alone if you don't have a family or something.

And then the landing can be really hard. Right.

And on the one hand, it's really great because you have peace.

Oh, my God.

Is, you know, like all these sometimes in conferences, it's so loud.

You know, all these people talking all the time.

I have a dizziness from all these people talking so loud.

And at the same time, you come back and you're like,

whoa, what happened?

But it is something which is coming to anything.

You come back for from a holiday.

You come back from a conference.

You come back from an event, a concert or whatever that is.

And then it was something so wow.

And then you need to land.

So to land, to come down, it needs a little bit of time, I guess.

It's also practice.

You know, I mean, now I'm so

you do this of Deutschland so routiniert, you know, like, OK, OK, no, no, it's gone.

Sometimes I would stay before.

Maybe I would stay longer after with drinks and speaking with everybody.

And now I don't do that.

Also, it's just it's it's a lot of receptions, you know.

So I'm very careful for my health.

And also because I'm traveling so much, I need to be very careful.

When did this international part came?

If I don't mistake, you had this during your studies.

But was it already within like you wanted to cross borders?

I took the track with Paris, Oxford and Berlin, and I stayed in Berlin.

That's how it started.

And it was so fascinating because it was the times where

it was a new era with the integration of West and East.

And it was really super interesting.

Yeah. Was it your first time in Berlin?

It was my first time in Berlin.

And Berlin took your heart?

First of all, yes.

And I remember it was like super exciting and super.

Everything was totally like new.

And I don't know, it was like recreating something.

It was pure creation, sparkling and super creative and.

Free and curious and open

and at the same time, super provincial.

And very strange was you would go to the eastern part of Berlin.

It was really different than the western part of Berlin.

So it was it was fascinating to see like, oh, would you see this two parts

of town coming together?

It was really great to be part of this adventure, I would say.

I never planned to stay for so long in Berlin.

I heard this so many times.

Yeah. Yeah.

Or you always come back to Berlin after you left it.

Exactly. But I think, I don't know.

To be to be honest, it has changed for me now.

I'm not so much.

Das Verliebtsein hat sich jetzt natürlich verändert.

So it's I'm not so much in love with Berlin as I was before,

like passionately in love with everything which was happening.

I don't know. I think I mean, this is change, right?

So change is everywhere in any town and everything.

And it's it's it's the way it is.

And I mean, everybody I mean, you have the people saying like, oh,

it was better before wherever it is.

And back then it was way behind, et cetera.

I think it's just different.

And the way it is now is not so appealing to me as it was before.

And this very unique.

I mean, we were so privileged to be part of this unique change in society

and in different perspectives.

So but I don't know.

I'm I'm not in love anymore.

But when you came at that time, you haven't had any plan.

No, I was pretty sure I would say a couple of years.

That's for sure.

I mean, I wanted this.

And I mean, you know, when you've been investing so much time

to master a language, you want to use it, you know.

And I remember it took me years to bring it to to a level of language

where you could, you know, like have these subtleties

and to understand the not the jargon or dialect or whatever that is,

because I cannot talk Berlinerisch, you know, I don't have the dialect.

OK, ich kann auch sagen ich auch or something like that, but it's not my thing.

And it doesn't feel authentic to me.

But I yeah, I understand it at least.

This is for sure the Berlin at that time

had this very strong political, societal, creative part.

You were talking about your love for new things and technology.

Was it also the case at that time?

Yeah, well, I mean, I remember I was part of the

what was it called? Silicon Alley.

It was something like a

because of I can't remember where we were.

Maybe Prenzlauer Allee, Schönauzer Allee or something like that.

Anyway, so it was called Silicon Alley.

Of course, I mean, I don't need to tell you what parallel to the Silicon Valley,

obviously. But basically, I mean, I don't know if I mean,

we were very creative at night, I would say.

But during the day, I don't know.

There was a lot of also of copycats.

I mean, it was also the reputation of Berlin with the tech scene back then.

So 2000 are etc.

It was really like, I don't know.

Now we have a lot of innovative people, a lot of great technology companies.

Also, also here. And

yeah, it's a

I mean, reflecting from today, I mean, seeing that

cultural budgets, but also innovation budgets to support young

young companies, startups and etc.

are have been slashed by the local government.

It's a pity because it is really like depriving Berlin

from a big part of its DNA.

And I think it's going to harm the city.

It's going to harm the land of Berlin.

I was reading also like a couple of days ago that it is already

not the first startup location in Germany.

But Munich is always, you know, this rivalry, depending on which criteria you have.

But it's going to be hard for Berlin.

Yeah, it's definitely I don't think it is the same that it was.

And I'm less interested in it now.

But I don't care so much

because I'm traveling so much that I love it to be my base.

Now you're freelance on your own.

How did you came to this point?

I don't know. I think I was

I guess I was very impacted by, on the one hand, a very

conservative education for, you know, like MBA business career and etc.

Coming from an international business school, the oldest in the world

with a very conservative way to form, to shape the people somehow.

Do my job to to to leave my profession

was one track in life.

The creative track was totally separated from that.

So I was profoundly also dividing some tracks in my life.

Is it a good thing?

Back then, I thought it was a good thing because I didn't

I didn't want to have my performance

life, my my life as a performer being seen in my business life.

I didn't want this to be mixed up, probably because I have been performing

as a guy on stage for a long time.

And it was really super interesting to reverse the gender roles,

to explore stuff.

I mean, I mean, Berlin is so queer.

You know, this is so much queer culture and it was so much space

to be able to explore this. It was really great.

And it was super interesting also to to to do to do this.

And I didn't want this to impact my job when I had to do it, you know,

like with political institutions like the Senate and everything.

I was like, you know, is it going to reduce my credibility

as a as a professional person and et cetera?

And I think this is today, of course, I can say and I knew back then

it's not really a smart choice to be to be all the time

sort of hiding half of yourself. Right.

But at the same time, I couldn't do it better.

I'm asking because I work in German,

but a big part of my life is in French.

And I still have the the really the sensation

because of the language structure who I talk with, et cetera, that is divided.

And I more tend to say it's good that it's separated.

I like that. I have some conversation with some person in the language

and different ones and another one.

And I was curious to know what you think, because I think it's important

also to have space where you can explore only a part of yourself

and you don't have to be the whole self.

You know what I mean?

All your time.

But still, it's important still to have it like in a frame, maybe.

It's like when you do sport, when you do sport,

you don't always take your business part of yourself on the treadmill, for example.

Yeah, I know what you mean, of course, it's more about.

I would say it was it has it had a lot to do with time boundaries,

like how much time do you invest in this?

How much time do we invest in that?

And also that which people do you see in this world

and which people do you see in those worlds?

So it's a lot of different ecosystems.

It has something which is a little bit exhausting to navigate these

on different tracks, you know, like being on a multilevel all the time.

At the same time, it is super enriching.

I read a book recently of the path of least resistance.

I mean, I guess like every the more you you go on with life,

the closer you come to yourself.

Some people might think like you have a.

A mission or a purpose, a life purpose.

I I think it's only a question of interpretation.

It's always very easy to find your life purpose when you look back.

So like, oh, yeah, sure.

I was supposed to be on stage and look, I was supposed maybe to be a pianist

and that is it.

But then I didn't do it.

And I did that and then look at me now.

I you know, I merge all the parts and I was meant for that.

You know, it's so easy to look back.

But I don't believe in it.

I think it's just like it happened.

But there is no meaning, but there is no something

which is telling us that, yes, you were meant to do that.

I think we look for a purpose in life because it's better before you die.

Thank you so much.

Yeah. Thank you very much for the invitation.

It was a great moment here with you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you so much for your time and attention.

I hope you enjoyed this conversation.

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