Shownotes
We are going to be exploring some big topics around mental health and our mental wellness, but with a different angle. I think we need to talk about mental health more, it's importance and the awareness, but we need to talk about it in a slightly different way to the way that we are doing now.
I am delighted to say that I've brought an expert in to share this space with me today on the mental wealth podcast - The amazing Nova Cobban. Nova is a renowned psychotherapist, psychologist and coach, pioneering transformative strategies for empowering women experiencing pivotal life transitions.
Check out Nova's work:
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Transcripts
Episode 24 - A new look at mental health
Transcript
::Welcome to mental wealth, the podcast to invest in your mind. Here I will help you make sense of your mind and behaviours, giving you the tools to have your best life. There is so much to share, so let's get into this episode and explore another great topic.
::So welcome to episode 24. And in this episode we are going to be exploring some big topics really, but around mental health, but with a different angle, because I think we need to talk about mental health more. But I think we need to talk about it in a slightly different way to the way that we are doing so far and.
::I am delighted to say that I've brought an expert in to share this space with me today and I want to welcome Nova. Welcome to this episode.
::Hi. Thank you so much for having me. Lovely.
::To be here.
::Everyone a bit more about you so that they know why I've picked you to come and share this space with me today.
::So I am Nova Cobbin and I am a psychologist, A psychotherapist and a coach, and I've been doing this work for over 20 years now, particularly working with women who are going through what I term a rebirth. So a challenging time in their life when lots of things are changing around them.
::And finding that quite difficult.
::And that a difficult transition to.
::And those women are a couple of women. They're leaders, they're.
::Women who are.
::At home, they're all kinds of different.
::Women who are going through those transitions.
::Brilliant. And you and I share so much commonality with our backgrounds and our training and I think that's why we know that this conversation is going to have a lot of wealth.
::Hopefully. So what we're going to think about today is we, we were talking before we started recording about mental health. I'm a big fan that we all look after our mental health, that we talk about it more. I think it's important. When I was younger, we didn't talk about it. It was very taboo. So I think that it's a good thing. It's a more than a good thing.
::We need to pay attention to it, but it's slightly swung. Sometimes the wrong way has an almost too much that we're sort of using it to say, oh, I can't do that because and I can't manage myself in this way and what Nova and I want to share today is some of her work and and some.
::Or ideas to think about what might be going.
::On for you.
::And where you might be at in your life, if you're listening to this today.
::So tell everyone a bit more about some of the things that you've been observing.
::I think that you're right. I think that we went through a period of time where it was important to encourage people to be more aware of their mental health and to talk more about their mental health.
::And then and we're trying to find a balance, we're trying to find the right balance between where?
::We were before.
::And where we're going now and I think that we have swung in the opposite direction where we're talking and lot about our mental health. But I think that that that actually kind of leaves us in quite a vulnerable space because we.
::Aren't allowing for people who don't want to talk about their mental health. I think that's one thing that's going on or who wants to keep that private or who don't feel like that's something that they want to be on display.
::And then we've also got people who are talking about it on things like social media and TikTok and things that are quite influential for other young people who are watching it.
::And we are.
::Almost making it a part of who we are.
::That this is.
::Who I am.
::Rather than, this is something that I'm experiencing and working through so that I can come out the other side of that and I feel like we've almost got a little bit stuck in that space of identifying too much with our mental health.
::Hmm, I think that's a really good point. So I think we've spent a lot of time haven't.
::We trying to.
::Whether this is right or wrong I don't know, but we label things we've given lots of kind of context to what people might be experiencing. So we've got different terminology, haven't we now which OK is good, it helps us identify. But I think what we want to highlight today.
::Is how you then start to just really notice what's going on for you and could it be?
::Something exciting. Could it be that you're actually on the edge of something else? And I think something else that we want to highlight is that the difference between your comfort zone and staying safe. Sometimes we stay safe, don't we? Because we're scared of the feeling of scared. We're scared of the feeling of uncertainty.
::So we don't do it and then we don't grow and I think you know, I was talking to somebody the other day and she suddenly realised that feelings that she had were literally just because she pushed herself out of her comfort zone and that meant she was going to be doing something new.
::Oh, yes, definitely. I mean, the work that I do and the sort of women that I speak to and the premise of this idea of rebirth and that being a very natural part of our lives than what we go through, we go through many different rebirths as we grow and go through different stages of life. And I've sort of I I've tried to identify.
::Three sort of key stages of that growth and development that we go through and points at which we can get really stuck in each of those stages.
::And I tried to simplify it into 3 words that were.
::And enable us to sort of.
::Remember them more easily, so I have.
::It as we have one stage that this is.
::Called the rise stage.
::So this is where we're kind of being more curious about the world around us and maybe questioning some stuff that's gone on. Maybe we're questioning our boundaries, maybe we're questioning our relationship.
::Yeah. Excuse me. There's something that is changing and it you'll feel a little bit.
::Uncomfortable you.
::Are going to have to ask difficult questions. You are going to have to address scary things like is this right for me? Is this still what I want? And there are big scary.
::Questions because the consequences of looking into that question and realising that you don't like the answer because the answer means that you would have to change something means that often we can get really stuck in that rise stage where we start to rise up into this new version of ourselves. And it looks really scary.
::And so we.
::Kind of shut it.
::All back down again and we stay there in the curiosity stage. Like just asking questions, but not actually doing anything about the answers that are coming.
::To us.
::OK.
::And if we?
::Can get through that stage.
::Then we can go into the rebirth and the rebirth stage. Again. We can get quite stuck in there. This is sort of when people end up.
::Not really sticking with.
::Anything and kind of having lots of fingers and lots of different pies. And don't get me wrong. You know, we all go through that stage. However, that looks that can look very different.
::Whether it's to do with your work or.
::Your relationships or whatever.
::And rebirth feels really uncomfortable. And the analogy that I use is literally around that kind of birthing process, because if you think about when a woman is going through those contractions, that's that hurts. That is painful. So we can often get stuck there. But if we manage to kind of come through that rebirth.
::Stage, which for me is very much embedded.
::In the idea of authenticity.
::And the interesting thing for me.
::About the word authenticity.
::Is that the root?
::Meaning of it is actually having authority over the self and I think that for many young people or for many people who are in that stage of discovering who they are in terms of their mental health and what that looks like but that.
::Authority over the self is missing it become it. It's missing. We kind of give our authority to all of these external things or this stage that we're going through rather than claiming it back for ourselves.
::But if we can get past that, then we actually move into sort of like the lovely stage that we have.
::After the rebirth.
::Which is where we.
::Actually, remember who we.
::Are we rise? We, we, we we rebirth and then we.
::Remember, and that's the place where we are very.
::Secure in ourselves and we.
::Can go back out into the community.
::Again around us and that is a whole new world.
::At that point, because.
::We know who we are and we.
::Can go back out into the.
::World with all of these.
::Boundaries and standards and ideas.
::Ourselves that are the next stage of our growth, we're we're much more secure in that and and that.
::For me is.
::Kind of embedded in courage, you know, that is the sort of principle that takes you to that point.
::And I think sometimes we mistake.
::Our courage and being vulnerable as the end points and we almost need to take our courage that we showed in being vulnerable to the next point, which is where we move into security again.
::Very important, isn't it? And I think one of the things that's just bringing to my mind is you are sharing that is the root really to our mental Wellness is courage is resilience is.
::People.
::Connections. It's all these things that are around us and yet we are so busy focusing on the things that are not.
::Nice not working, but actually what we're saying is they are all actually.
::Normal, obviously. You know, we're not talking.
::About mental illness.
::Here, where people have really got poorly, but we are talking about generally our mental Wellness. And I think for me being able to identify kind of where you are and I you know I love your story and I and we we're in the show notes we've got your podcast which you were focusing on this topic.
::I'm pleased to be one of your guests there where I was sharing some of my rebirth stories as well, and I think just being able to pause and just notice that where are you near, which bit of what you've just described? Are you at in each stage is going to have some uncomfortableness, some anxiety, some.
::The loneliness some sadness particularly, I think at your rise stage, I would imagine there the emotions because you know that there's something that isn't quite right. You're not quite sure how. And then obviously there's the really uncomfortable where where you're going to do something.
::And then I suppose, like you say, then, wow, remembering who you are, but.
::One of the things I I talk about a lot over is that who you will become is because of the challenges that you've come through. We often are trying to so badly get rid of all that stuff, aren't we? And actually for me, I know for me personally.
::Some of my challenges have become my greatest assets, really because I'm fiercely independent because.
::Of the way.
::That things happen to me. I'm fiercely determined, and that is because I didn't have it easy all the time.
::Ohh for sure you know our a life without challenge is really no life at all because you don't express anything or experience anything that helps you to grow and that growth is kind of.
::The key for for life and feeling like you have.
::Lived a life is is always.
::Growing and then of course will be times.
::Which we kind of pause and we should do. It's nice to pause and and recognise what's going on and we don't want to be challenged all the time because we would, you know.
::End up just.
::Needing a break.
::From that.
::Challenge in itself, I think needs to be reframed as something that is a real positive aspect of your growth and of your future and of you evolving.
::And I you know, I I get it. I understand that when you are feeling vulnerable and when you feel like you don't belong and then you have.
::A huge wave of social media.
::Understanding of mental health that that almost becomes a place where you can belong.
::Because suddenly it's like, oh, here's somebody who understands me. Here's somebody who gets it. Here's somebody else who's going through those challenges. And that's really important. And that I wouldn't any in any way want to sort of take away from that. And I know.
::You wouldn't want to either, but I.
::Think that when we belong somewhere.
::We often belong for a short period of time, or for a period of time.
::And we need to recognise when that.
::That we belong to is actually holding us back from our next stage of growth.
::And I think.
::That potentially sometimes if we over identify with a group, whether that's a positive one or or a negative one, however that sits.
::We need to at some point recognise that we have perhaps outgrown that identity and that we want to move into something.
::Else and not stay there like keep growing. Keep developing. I think that social media has a big hand in us wanting to belong and then finding somewhere to belong and then staying there and making that our identity.
::I think that's really important, isn't it, to remember that. And I like that idea of just remembering you, don't we don't have to be.
::Challenging ourselves all the time, we do need sometimes to just pause and observe the view or whatever, you know, look at, look around and see where you've come from. It's so important.
::And but also to know that we are meant to evolve, you know, we're not meant to stay stagnant. And I do have a belief that some mental challenges are coming because we're staying safe. It's like we are. It's we're known to. We're meant to be doing more things and again we don't want to be doing comparative unitis and looking out for.
::What everyone else is doing is that's another trap. But actually knowing that we're meant to be.
::Doing harder things we're meant to be pushing ourselves, aren't we? And I think just it, trying to see your life in, in that sort of flow of I'm gonna. I'm here I am. I'm rising to something new.
::I'm not going to shy away from it. I'm going to find out how to move forward, but then knowing that you need a little time to just take stock of that and then then maybe something else will come or you'll be aware of something else.
::Is one of the things I say now. I don't know what you do, but you know highly creative people.
::Often are so stifled because they're not just happening, so that's an example I think of when I'm saying it's like we're we're meant to be growing and when we don't, that's what causes us to feel mentally unwell.
::Yeah, it it almost feels like safety's become a destination.
::For us.
::And that it's something that we want to reach for. And I think that we're reaching for the wrong thing if we're reaching for safety. And I don't mean safety as in, like, your physical safety. That's the power amount. You know, you need to be physically safe and and.
::And we want to feel emotionally safe. But sometimes it's important to feel emotionally unsafe.
::You know we.
::Need to be able to feel unsafe enough to take the next step to say the brave thing, to set our standards to vocalise our.
::Boundaries. Those things take courage and they will feel unsafe. And if we don't get unsafe sometimes or if we don't have situations where we need to employ courage, then we've reached a destination which is way below what we're capable of and way below our potential.
::Safety is important.
::But it can become something that's holding us back as well.
::It's almost like a gateway, isn't it? To put when you really push yourself and you dig deep like you say, whatever that might.
::Look like.
::There's something so more, so much more on the other side of that, and for me, almost finding those things that are going to be comfortable enough but uncomfortable to make that happen, I think is, is that balance for some people. I mean, we know that as there are some people out there who do extreme things to push themselves, then that's their.
::The way they are, but then we've also got everyone else in their space wherever they are. And I think it's important for people to to, to be present and.
::Kind really to themselves around what their their thing is going to look like. What their, what their rebirth or what's or more what their starting point really is and where they're going to go.
::So I'd like.
::To just talk about Nova is is just to give people a few examples of what what you mean and what what we're talking about when we talk about the what might be happening, what rebirth kind of things.
::Because I'm sure.
::There's a few people thinking, well, I don't know what exactly that means.
::What? What can we share with them? Just a few ideas. I mean, obviously, I'm happy to talk about my own stuff, but I think you've got you've had some really nice interviews with people and it'd be great to just get a couple of ideas.
::Yeah. And a rebirth in the context of the stories that.
::I've been talking to people.
::About or, they've been telling.
::About has very much been.
::A slow burn to begin with, so they've just slowly recognised that something doesn't feel quite right. Something's starting to feel like it's missing.
::They're feeling a bit lost. They're.
::Feeling a bit.
::Unsure of whether.
::Their expectation has met up to the reality that they wanted.
::That discomfort has led to them realising that something is missing or something is not right.
::And at that point, things sort of escalate a little bit or they speed up a little bit. So I think when the recognition comes, then you almost can't help but do something about it because it becomes uncomfortable to not actually move forward.
::So they've reached.
::This this point of discomfort and then.
::Thing has happened.
::Or they take action, and often if they they've already known it, but if they haven't taken action, something happens. Anyway to sort of push them forward. Whether that's created subconsciously or whether that's just sort of coincidence, we we don't, we don't know.
::But something has happened, so they have decided that they can no longer go to.
::The job that they're doing.
::Or they have decided that they need to.
::Move to a different.
::Part of the country.
::Or end their relationship or something needs to.
::So they made this change and in doing so it has.
::Shifted their entire sense of identity.
::So it has opened.
::Up to them something about themselves that they thought wasn't available to them, like courage or like resilience or like authenticity. One of those kind of key values.
::That hadn't been expressed suddenly gets expressed and it changes the whole way that they see themselves.
::They're like ohh I.
::Do have the confidence to do that.
::Or I do have the.
::Compassion to offer that to somebody.
::Or whatever it is it just.
::Shifts themselves their self-awareness and their self.
::Sense of self.
::And that.
::Is a huge point of growth right when you just something inside you opens up and you realise that you have it. It's part of you and that you can express that more than you thought as possible and feel safe and carry on and move forward.
::I think that's really helpful, isn't it? Just to kind of reiterate what it is that we're saying, because I know everybody.
::Literally, and I'm bravely going to say, literally everybody has got something inside them that they're not quite doing. They're they're staying safe. They are very worried. They don't, maybe they don't even know what it is, you know, maybe they haven't kind of got that realisation yet. But for me, conversations like this help us all.
::Pause and think. Well, what is it and what could it be or what might it be? How will I help myself find out what's my?
::But I think innately, we do know, you know, if anyone's listening to.
::This and they.
::They have got a situation that they're.
::Dealing with that.
::They know that something does need to change.
::And then how isn't it? It's the how then how are they going to be careful? Be mindful, but how are they going to help?
::Themselves move forward.
::Yeah. And what? Who do they need around?
::Them and what do?
::They need in order for that.
::To happen in a way that doesn't risk something.
::Real, you know, I.
::Think the safety part sort.
::Of comes back in here again in that.
::There are real genuine.
::Reasons why people don't make change, you know they don't want their children to.
::To feel like they don't have the safety around them that lose them, they're they're people that they care about vulnerable or they don't have enough money to go and make that change. They don't know how else they financially safe or a whole raft of things where people would rather compromise themselves.
::Then to make a change that might detrimentally affect people that.
::They love and care.
::About including themselves and that's real. And often we will sacrifice things like our own happiness in order for those things that appear more important to happen.
::And I get that and I think that that's to a degree that that's right. But I think that there is also a part of you that will always feel.
::That sense of not being whole if you don't do that.
::And you not feeling whole does have an effect on the people?
::That you love as well.
::I think so. I think it is. That old metaphor, isn't it? Talking about people in an aeroplane with their oxygen masks coming down and you know that so many people I was working with somebody just this week who absolutely could identify with the fact that everyone else does come first. But in internally she is.
::But you know challenges which are affecting her and well-being her physical health and her emotional health. But I think one of the other things that I think is just worth highlighting is when you do make these changes, there will and potentially will be some fallout.
::With others, because if you've been in a certain way or you've gone along with something for a long time, sometimes is a bit of a shock for the people that are around you cause they whoa, hang on a minute. Who are you now? What's this? What's happening? And I think that needs to be carefully thought through and managed, because that can be like a sort of.
::An elastic band back to how it used to be very quickly cause you're just back off and you're scared.
::Or it that people might say not very kind things you know again you to come back to your point, we need the right people around us who are going to encourage us to keep going. Yeah, I know. One of my rebirths was leaving the NHS after 24 years. And there were some people who were like you mad. You are mad. You can't leave your permanent.
::Posting your pension and all that security.
::But actually I.
::Had other people saying, well, if you think.
::You can do.
::It and I needed to make sure that I was listening and being encouraged by some people and maybe not others. So I guess that has to be put into the mix, doesn't it? As we're thinking about what we need to do, we just need to be careful and mindful that some people might not like it.
::They might not like the new version of you for a while because it doesn't suit them. You're suddenly not saying yes to everything anymore or you, you know, using your boundaries ideas. So you know, I think that's something to keep an eye on, isn't it to?
::Yeah, I I.
::Think we can easily kind of capitulate to others wishes when we're uncertain ourselves.
::And they will. They're just reflecting our own doubts and showing us the truth, which is that if they're able to influence that by saying, you know, I think maybe you'll change or that it won't work out, that's probably true in you at that moment, too, is that they are just reflecting your own doubts. And so for me, sometimes it's.
::Quite helpful just to.
::To thank them for that and to.
::Acknowledge that that's.
::True, I do. I'm not sure I.
::Yeah, and be vulnerable at that point and say you're right. I'm it. It it might not work out. And and I'm not sure if it's going to work out.
::But I actually.
::Really want to try and I would love it if you.
::Were alongside me as we did that.
::It's so powerful, isn't it, to be.
::Able to have.
::That positive conversation with yourself, but also with that other those other significant people in that space. So if somebody was listening to this thinking right, can resonate with some bits. I'm not sure which part of the.
::The journey I'm on.
::I might be just knowing I might be in that horrible space where I'm really ready to go. What should we give them as a couple of tips? I like people to have something that they could sort of get going with today. What's the thing that they could do today? What? What kind of things do you think will be helpful for them, Nova?
::I think that for me, when you're.
::On that kind of journey.
::Of thinking that maybe something's not quite right, but you're a little bit.
::Scared to look at it.
::But it's quite good to try and find a.
::Safe way to do that so.
::You're just you're just using.
::Your imagination. Nothing's gonna change. You don't have to.
::Do anything about.
::It, But you're gonna allow yourself and give yourself permission to actually look out into the future and decide whether the trajectory that you're currently on is going to lead you where you want to go.
::And just play in your imagination with that. Just look at, you know, like it in three years time. If everything's exactly the same as it is.
::Now has. Am I going?
::To feel OK with that.
::So that your mind just gets feels a little bit safer about asking those questions, knowing that no one's gonna know, no one's gonna hear your thoughts. You don't even have to write it down or nothing like that. Just play safely in your mind so that the questions can start coming and you can just feel whether that feels OK or not.
::So that would be my first tip is just get curious. Get curious.
::About it, ask some questions.
::I really like.
::Yeah, I think it's so important, isn't it? Just to just to sort of, yeah, I love the word curious for me it's a gateway to to most things if you just wondering, wondering interested what could it be, might it be just get it, get excited really about things, but I think what we want to be mindful of course is that instantly if it's brand new.
::Your mind hasn't got a reference, so it might go. We can't do that, but it's just putting those aside, isn't it? And just allowing yourself to just wonder what might that look like? What is your heart's desire in one of my?
::People is Wayne Dyer and one of his most gorgeous sayings is don't die with the music inside you. You know, whatever your music is.
::Let's think about what that might look like and how will you get get to that. I think something that I want to add to that brilliant strategy is to to to be kind to yourself while you're thinking as well, because again, your mind might start chucking in some doubt, but also be patient.
::You know, I think if you are on the brink of something, you know babies. If we're using your metaphor, you know, they take a long time to.
::Like so you know these ideas that you might have. Let's let's scatter it with some patience as well, because things can't always happen just overnight and and I think that can be a a blocker. It's because you think, oh, I'm frustrated. It's not happening quick enough. I don't know whether you hear people say that, but I certainly do some.
::Yes, definitely. And I you're you're shifting your identity.
::When you're doing this work.
::And that takes some time because your identity is something that's been around for a long time and it needs space and time to open up. And that's exactly.
::Why I use?
::This sort of.
::The I I've used a different version.
::Of the spelling of the word.
::Room, but to illustrate a point that.
::You are sitting in.
::The room at that point.
::And that space where you're just kind of suspended in nothingness, waiting for the next point at which you're ready to birth in that kind of void. That's.
::Where everything's being.
::Built and created and growing and being put together and that takes nine months. And in that metaphor.
::So it it you're exactly right, it is not.
::A quick process and it is a layered process and it is a process that.
::Is often done.
::In isolation and and quiet time and downtime.
::I mean, and a lot of us don't have a lot of that time, right?
::Now so we have.
::To sort of try and carve that out and.
::Allow ourselves to do.
::That and that comes in snippets, so it's not.
::Going to necessarily be quick.
::Yeah, definitely. And I think for me, you learned so much in the process as well. You'll learn. I did you. It is not. Nothing's a failure. It's all like, ohh, OK that I need to. That's just that readjust that need something else there. And I think along the way.
::Is learning all the time, you know, then we need to have a curiosity about that learning space, but also some time where we just pause and we just be OK with what we've got and then we we evaluate ourselves cause because again, the impatience to think the way, the speed that we live at now, these people are just wanting.
::Instant delivery as we can have the next day and it it absolutely isn't. This is the long haul, but also there isn't. That final destination is there. I think that's also something worthwhile. Saying is these rebirths and this challenge and the view and the way that we're asking or suggesting that you might look at your life through this.
::Ends now. It's that. Yeah. You don't really get there, do you? Because there's always going to be a next stretch. I mean, I'm. I'm sure you are as well know. But, you know, we're still stretching ourselves. We're still growing and learning all.
::Ohh I should hope so. Yeah absolutely. I would hate it. I'd hate to think that that wasn't an ongoing process and that finally I was kind of the finished version because I don't.
::I I don't wanna stop here.
::Exactly. But I think some people do get kind of humble on that, though they think that I need to get there and there is the magical.
::Space. But actually, once you're there, you will have probably some different version of yourself and that will encourage you to want to go to the next there and then the next there. And I think that's the thing, isn't it? We we need, we need to just know that it's just a continual journey.
::Yeah, all of these things are states that we enter into. They're not destinations that we arrive at. You know, our potential is a state that we enter. Our happiness is a state that we enter. So all of these things that are available to us at at certain levels depending on where we are all the time and we're just expanding that level all the time. We're not arriving at somewhere completely different. We're just.
::Expanding the leg.
::Brilliant. Wow, I think that's been a lovely conversation I've enjoyed, and hopefully people listening in again, we'll just give them some, hopefully some nourishment really to think about wherever you are, whatever you're feeling and struggling with right now. Just know that lots of other people are right beside you doing exactly the same.
::And yes, it might be difficult. Not doing it becomes difficult. So once we pass that rebirth point, then there is all the new the new enjoying isn't there.
::Absolutely. Thank you so much. I really.
::Enjoyed this, Allison?
::Keep the listening and sharing in this episode of Mental Wealth. Remember, you can subscribe wherever you get your podcast. My last question to you is what is the one small thing that you can take action on from this episode? Message me on Instagram.
::Or through our website with questions you'd like me to explore.
::We'll find the links in the show.
::Notes. I'll be back with more tools and.
::Tips to make sense of your mind in the next step of the.
::In the meantime, be.
::Kind to yourself. Bye for now.
