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Show Notes

In this episode of The Business Of Trust, I sit down with Maya Hu-Chan, a global leadership consultant, internationally recognized speaker, and bestselling author.

Maya walks us through her journey from growing up in Taiwan and studying journalism, to moving to the U.S. for graduate school, to working directly with Marshall Goldsmith. You’ll hear how those experiences shaped the way she built her own firm and why her long-term success has everything to do with relationships, referrals, reputation, and staying relevant.

We also dive deep into the core idea behind her book: “Saving Face: How to Preserve Dignity and Build Trust,” not as a cultural nicety, but as a practical, universal way to build relationships that last.

What You’ll Learn:

• Maya’s origin story and how she found her niche
• The three pillars of a thriving consulting practice
• What “saving face” really means
• The ‘relationship bank account’
• Navigating marketing with integrity
• Her advice for new coaches and consultants

Connect with Maya:

• Book: Saving Face: How to Preserve Dignity and Build Trust
• Website: mayahuchan.com
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/maipie88
• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/mayahuchan

She truly welcomes feedback — your likes, comments, and reactions mean a lot.

Maya Huchan is a globally recognized speaker, author, and leadership consultant. She specializes in leadership, in cross-cultural management, and diversity and inclusion. Maya was recognized as a top coach by Thinker Swifties, by Leadership Gurus, in Marshall Goldsmith's 100 Coaches, and by the Coach Foundation. The Harvard Business School chose her book, Global Leadership, The Next Generation, to be their working knowledge book. She is a columnist for Inc.

and her most recent book, which we're going to talk about today, Saving Face, How to Preserve Dignity and Trust, is a number one Amazon bestseller. In this conversation, Maya tells us the behind the scenes of her success And what it really takes to grow a great firm. Let's get started.

Hello, Maya. Thank you for guest today in the business of trust. I'm so excited to have you here.

Hi Hugo, I am so excited to be here as well. Thank you for your kind invitation.

Thank you for being here. And I want to always like to start this conversations with the Genesis story, if you will. Like you are such a well-recognized global coach and I'm always curious about how did you get into this line of business?

Wow, you know, I started really early. If I tell you how long I've been doing this, you're gonna know, like, gee, I've been around like a dinosaur. so first of all, I was born and raised in Taiwan. And I came to the US to go to graduate school, went to University of Pennsylvania. And then so when I was in college,

My passion really was to study journalism and I want to be a journalist. So I have a journalism degree and also minor in business. The reason that I love journalism so much is because I have such a strong interest in curiosity about people. I love to hear about their stories and I also love to listen.

and I like to ask questions. very curious about people. So ⁓ with that journalism background, then I came to the US and I studied communication and my thesis ⁓ for my master's degree was in cross-cultural communication. ⁓ So with that kind of background, I started thinking about what kind of work can I do? What kind of profession can I?

you

really get into so that I can combine all of my curiosity and interest and passion and also the skill set I have about journalism, you know, put that into use. And so I was very fortunate that when I, after I graduated, I moved to San Diego and I lived in San Diego for many years, but I had an opportunity to work with Marshall Goldsmith, who was the number one executive coach in the world.

And back then, this was decades ago that he was running a leadership consulting firm. So I was working with him directly for a number of years and traveling with him and then really focusing on not on coaching, but it was really our leadership development and running leadership programs for major corporations around the world. And that really got me interested in this line of work.

have been following your content on LinkedIn and I always love it. I love how you show up and everything that you share there is so actionable. And when I'm hearing your story, it just sounds like this was meant to be for you. Like you just find your path in there. Maya, I want to...

I was

very lucky, right? It's not always a straight line, right? ⁓ When I had my undergrad degree, I didn't know where I was going with this, right? I was in broadcasting for a few years and I was in radio, I was in TV and in newspaper and PR as well. But then it's not a straight line, just like most of us. But somehow I was able to find

my passion and stay on this. and keep doing what I love to do. Very lucky.

to think of this as like it's not a straight line the way we want it to be because we're doing a dance with life and we have to let life live through us as we put our intention out there. Something that I'm very curious is I understand that you were working with Marshall which it really gives like a lot of credibility but at the at a moment that you launch your own firm and your own brand under Maya how did you access your first like

your first clients, like the first accounts that started hiring you directly.

since I've been doing this work with Marshall and I wanted to be able to do it independently as well. And by the way, I still collaborate and work with Marshall in various projects, but to be able to get it to be able to do business, to start my own firm on my own that

The first question I asked myself is that what am I going to contribute that I can do the best I can do better than most people. And also that's something that I can offer because of my unique background and capability. So I was thinking about my journalism background and also because I'm Chinese American, Taiwanese American, I came from a different cultural background. So I thought cross-cultural.

type of work in global leadership could be a good way to really capitalize or leverage my strength and experience. so over the years that I have done a lot of research and written books about those topics, specifically related to global leadership, global diversity, and how do you work with cross-cultural teams, virtual teams, and that continued to deepen my expertise.

And over the years, then I started to really make that into my specialty and niche. And so I speak about it and I coach on that. And I also write about it. I create, you know, author, co-author 14 books and related to various topics. But global leadership, cross-cultural leadership, management has always been my go-to. And I just love.

to continue to serve leaders in that space.

It's so amazing to think that like of a life journey where you've written 14 books I want to talk specifically about your last book, Saving Face. perhaps I will let you explain to our audience, like, what do you mean by saving face, but also how does the concept of saving face or honoring face allows us to build trust in our relationships?

What a great question. And you know, as I grow up in my nation, I was born and raised in Taiwan. And faith is such an important aspect of our life. It permeates everything. Both professionally in business and personal and social interactions, it permeates everything. And it's really about really tapping to

the deepest human needs of feeling being respected and heard and appreciated. And so what does it take as I started working with leaders and over the years as I coach them to become the best leader, best version of themselves, both at work and professionally, I also realized that the concept of faith is not just in Asia. It's really a universal concept.

It's something that everybody can apply in their professional life and personal life to build relationships, to build trust, and to really preserve dignity for other people so that you will be able to continue to live the best life you can to create an environment that everybody can thrive. So when I start thinking about what I'm going to write about in terms of my own book,

This idea keeps popping into my head is I want to write about face. Right. And so what does face really mean? Face represents our self-esteem, self-confidence, our reputation, and our identity. It's who we are inside and out. Okay. And so there are three key concepts.

that I think can really apply to the concept of face. And the first one has to do with honoring face. So honoring face means that when you work with someone, when you meet somebody, that you make the other person feel that I hear you, I see you, you matter.

And I love this quote from Maya Angelou people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you make them feel.

And so that's on the reface.

And that definitely applies across any kind of relationship. I mean, I want to share for our listeners that before we hit record in this conversation, you and I had a little chit chat and you started asking me questions about me and that just showed to me. felt flattered. felt like, she wants to know a little bit about me.

in the first five minutes of talking to you, I already had a sense of like, she wants to know me, she wants to learn more about me. I just want to share a practical example of how I experienced it from the other side. And it doesn't surprise me that faith is so important. In episode five of The Business of Trust, I interview our mutual friend, Marcia Reynolds. in her book

breakthrough coaching, Marsha shares that to run into a piece of research that says that respect is the most important factor that indicates that a relationship is going to develop, a trusted relationship is going to develop. Even more important than compassion. And when I read that, I was like so surprised. and I mean, I'm connecting that with the concept of saving face and honoring face. And it all makes so much sense, right? Yeah.

Absolutely,

absolutely. You know, I think that ⁓ to be able to apply those concepts, it's really key to a long term relationship with people. Like I think back in my career that I feel very fortunate that I have met so many wonderful people that helped me along the way. And also, ⁓ I always wanted to keep in mind that how can I give back and continue to help others as well.

most of the people that I work with, we have known each other for 20, 30 years. And this just doesn't just happen by accident, right? It's that very intentional, authentic way of managing that relationship and also really truly show that you respect the other person.

and you admire each other and you'll be able to then continue to cultivate that kind of longevity in terms of relationship and people feel trusted and appreciated as well. And people wanted to work with people they enjoy working with.

beautifully

when I look at your website, you have such an incredible roster of clients that it's very impressive. And I want to perhaps, if you will share with our listeners a story that really stands out for you, like a success story of a big account that you landed or a significant moment in your career when you landed an account that you felt very proud of. how did that happen?

Okay, well, you know, I have several very, very close clients over the years, actually quite a few and. Most of the situations that I work with the client is through referrals. You know, the referrals really is based on could be the client make that referral, make that introduction or other colleagues.

who are making that referral. as I think about over the years that I've worked with the various clients that they're key, the key things here is number one, I think to be able to continue to do the best quality work. Okay. And the kind of work that really adds value and really serves their needs.

And if I can do that consistently and really listen and understand the clients needs and to be able to offer something that's really unique and that's also meet their requirement and their needs. I think that that's be that consistency and high quality work. That's the foundation. That's the given. But then the second key element is about relationships. OK, and.

Mm-hmm.

I look at this type of relationship, business relationship. It's not transactional. It really is long term. So I like to build partnership with my clients and to look at them as something that we can work together over the long haul. You know, it's not just for one meeting, one training, but over a long time, we are strategic partners. And how can I provide the best value for you? And it's not just, it goes beyond vendor and the customers.

but how can we really truly partner together? ⁓ many of the clients that I work with and the coaching clients as well, once the coaching engagement is finished, we stay in touch. We continue to touch base and I have had C-level executives or ⁓ my little managers or high potential clients that I work with, even 20 years later, we're still in touch.

And so it's that kind of relationship I look at as a long-term ⁓ kind of connection. And it's a partnership. It's not just short-term transactional type of relationship. And the third piece that I think is really important is the reputation. Okay. And I consistently look at what is it that I have to offer.

And how can I be consistent in terms of offering that to people? And at this stage in my career, I continue to coach executives and deliver programs, but I'm really focusing on giving back and pay it forward. Okay. So I started looking really closely into the next generation leaders that what can I do to provide the kind of knowledge

and learnings and best practices I have learned as an executive coach and then make that accessible to them. So to kind of continue to build a brand and help people have access to that kind of information. reputation and relationships and high quality work. I think those are some of key things that I live by every day. ask myself, I reflect ⁓ every night.

before I go to sleep, did I do my best to really live up to that kind of standard? And ⁓ if I answer yes, then I can sleep well.

Wow.

Amazing. I mean, you have pointed what I've been referring to the three Rs of a successful firm, which is relationships, referrals, and reputation. That's what really works. And I love how you have put it together. ⁓ And when you were mentioning about how you see these business relationships, it really resonates with me. I always refer to them as

you

lifelong relationships based in mutual respect and admiration for the other person, which is in the context of this conversation, a relationship where face is very much present and respected and

I think of like your career and like how has your sensitivity to saving face as a social currency because you mentioned this in your book how saving face is a social currency. How has that supported your career success over the years?

you

currency is definitely a concept that I think is very relevant in today's world because people seem to feel like there's so much uncertainty in this world. There's so many changes and people are constantly dealing with uncertain situations and required to do more with less. so

how can we continue to really build on this relationship currency so that is something that AI cannot replace, right? That's something that truly can last among people that when we have those true connections. So ⁓ when I think about doing, ⁓ kind of really building that kind of relationships and ⁓ I think about social currency, it's like a

almost like a bank account, right? you know, but we build a supply of those kinds of relationships is by continuously making deposit into this relationship account. Okay. And I think a lot of times people talk about this kind of relationship account, but how do you do it? It really is not like you make a one giant deposit.

and you think, okay, I'm done with that. But it's about like little things, you know, we build trust and we express gratitude and appreciation and we compliment people for their contribution and we recognize them for what they have done, both in public and in private. And we empathize with people.

You know, we put ourselves in their shoes to understand their challenges and we give their voice equal time and weight. And it's that kind of continuous deposit that we're making into that relationship account. And by honoring their face, make them feel heard and understood and appreciated. But someday if we need to make a withdrawal and we're careful not to make somebody lose face. So for example,

If we, you know, in a work situation that if we need to make, we need to actually provide feedback. And so we wanted to make sure that we provide that feedback in a way that saves them safe face and preserve their dignity. And if we mistakenly caused them to lose face and relationship can still be saved if there's enough deposit to cover that withdrawal. So.

our clients, our friends,

Our colleagues says, you know what, Hugo, I know him. he has the best intention. So they give you benefit of the doubt and you'll be able to continue to preserve that relationship because you have put in all the work to continue to cultivate that relationship. And that's why I call this the social currency is that it's something that you know, it's a give and take and but over time.

Mm.

you wanted to have that overdraft protection, right? So that you'll be able to continue to preserve that relationship.

You

this practical term for something that is so subtle and energetically in a way ⁓ but I love how this analogy like it makes it very clear for me and Maya I'm thinking of like all of this marketing techniques that create so much noise and like this funnel this ad like this lead and like all of these things and I'm curious about

I'm sure you are presented with a lot of these opportunities to market yourself this way. And how do you filter those that resonate with you, that doesn't? Do you look at it from a view of like, is this actually providing face, sort of honoring and saving face for my clients? Or is it like, how do you navigate that?

Well, you know, I love feedback. know not everybody loves feedback, but for me, that I think any kind of feedback is a gift. Whether it's people telling me, hey, you know what, this video you made really resonated with me or this coaching session was really helpful. I love to hear that. But I also wanted to hear that, how can I do better? How can I improve?

so when I'm posting articles or videos out there, yes, sometimes I receive comments that may not be positive. And I always wanted to express my gratitude because I know that

You know those kind of feedback is sometimes point out my blind spot that I may or may not have thought of that. Or perhaps that this is not something that applied to every situation. So I think that to have that kind of ⁓ to be able to have that humility and then to be humble about feedback and to continue to kind of reinvent myself. And that's another are I wanted to add to your three hours already. It will be the fourth hour is.

Mm.

Reinvent, right? And to stay relevant and to continue to learn because we're in this field of work that we cannot allow ourselves to be stagnant. There's so much to learn. There's so much that we can continue to enrich our lives. And so how can we continue to ⁓ find new ways to contribute and to ⁓ enhance our knowledge and ability to contribute? So reinvent.

Mm-hmm.

It's something that I always kind of ask myself, is there something that I can do improve and ⁓ to have a better version of myself when it comes to be a better coach, a better colleague, and also a better parent, a better spouse, and a better friend.

I love it. ⁓ Maya, you have shared so much with us today. if someone is starting and they look at you and they're hearing this conversation, what would be perhaps the one piece of advice that you wish you knew when you were starting that you would share to someone who is also getting started on this path of ⁓ coaching and business development?

I would like to...

Maybe tell my younger self that what I know today is just continue to put yourself out there. Continue to learn, continue to put yourself out there and don't hold back. Okay, it's better to do something and to learn from it, even if it doesn't work, than not trying at all. All right, just get yourself out there and

Also just welcome any experience because I think that the more we put ourselves out there and then we learn and then we're going to continue to grow. And that's part of life. don't want to, know, there was a saying that I heard, I'm paraphrasing this, is that at the end of our lives that we wanted to feel like we have experienced everything rather than just all easy and pampered, right? We wanted to put ourselves out there.

Mm.

and experience it and I don't want to have any regrets because I haven't done something that I wanted to try.

Beautifully said, that's a perfect way to end. And Maya, before we close, if people are listening and they want to learn more about you and your work, where would you like to send them?

I think the best way would be number one, go to my website and just my name www.mayahuchan.com. And also I love to have you go to my YouTube channel. And also you can just type my name Maya Hu-Chan, H-U-C-H-A-N. And you'll be able to see a lot of videos I've been posting every week and I love to have your feedback.

either like or subscribe. ⁓ Your feedback is going to be such a gift to me. I really appreciate it.

Thank you, Maria. Thank you so much for the general set of advice that you have shared with us today. I'm so grateful.

Thank you.

Bye for now.

Hey, I hope that you enjoyed my conversation with Maya and that you found it actionable and insightful. I certainly did. So if you like what you heard, please make sure to rate us and subscribe in whatever platform you're listening from.

would like to implement a marketing system for your agency that is not cheap or sell-seed but actually works around building trusted relationships, make sure to check out our work at moondeskmedia.com. I'm your host, Hugo Sanchez, and I'll see you in our next