Jonathan Jones is the host of the ‘Your Podcast Mentor’ podcast and helps entrepreneurs, small business owners, and content creators position themselves as an authority through podcasting. He shares with Hector how short-form video on Tik Tok and Instagram have helped his show and his business. He also covers how YouTube shorts have had a surprising amount of impact and reach.

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M Y P fam, what's going on my name ISTE.

And I'm your host.

And I get way too geeked up about creating amazing podcasts that can

fuel your lifestyle and your business.

And I've been producing and promoting podcasts for over half a decade.

And this show is to help you learn the things that do and do not

work when it comes to marketing and monetizing your podcast.

And today's episode is an interview with Jonathan Jones.

He hosts the, your podcast mentor show, and I just love what he's

been doing on social media.

He's an absolute blast to follow on Instagram, and we talk about the

power of short form video and how it's helped his business and his show.

Don't forget to come and connect with me on Twitter and let me know what

you thought about the episode, but without further ado, let's get into

the interview with Jonathan Jones.

All right, Jonathan.

Welcome to the NYP show, man.

Thanks for hanging out with us today.

Yeah, man.

I'm glad to be here, Hector.

Let's get it going.

Let's get it.

We were chatting a little bit and we were riffing before we hit the

record button about short form video.

And I'd love for you to talk about that because it's something I have

not struggled with, but realized that I strengths that lie in other places.

So prioritized other forms of promotion.

However, I know that it's winning right now, people talking about tos

and YouTube shorts and Instagram real.

So we're gonna talk about that, but I'd love to hear your story, give us the

update and kind of the catch us up on how your show started and why podcasting

ended up becoming such a big part of your.

Yeah.

So this show came about after, I was in the pandemic like many other

people and then I started a show geared towards student athletes.

Initially that show, I did that for a season.

And then, being able to take that and leverage it to get some

speaking engagements at colleges.

And then I partnered up with a coach.

His name is words, Taylor.

He was like, Jonathan, you sound really passionate about

helping people start podcasts.

You sound really passionate about podcasting.

He was like, well, why don't you do a show on podcasting?

And I was like, okay, cool.

Well, I'll do both shows.

And he was like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

You're gonna go ahead and you're gonna stop doing the other show.

and then you're gonna go all the way in, on this show.

So that was when your podcast mentor show with Jonathan Jones came about and

toward the latter part of last year.

And then from there, man, just started doing some howtos just

started doing some podcast news.

And then lately I just added interviews to ultimately, service the podcast

community, help those people who are just struggling to navigate what

happens after, launch just like what you've may mention of with your show.

man.

I was so excited and I'm so blessed to have ran into people like you, who are on

similar path and doing similar things.

Right.

I think that a lot of people might see it as competition.

Or I know in a previous life, I came from the sales world.

I might have seen someone like you as competition, but I've

realized that not only is it not healthy, it's not productive.

And it's not profitable either.

What for you about the podcasting space?

Kind of drew you in what got you so excited that you thought it

was worth, saying no to other things in order to pursue this.

Yeah, so I'll start from earlier in my podcast journey

and bring it back up to speed.

And initially I got started with podcasting because I wanted to

further expand my voice, but I wanted to use it specifically to

get more speaking engagements.

So to establish myself just through the airwaves of people all across the

country so that they can see me and say, oh, okay, well let's bring him in.

He knows what he's talking about and all this other stuff

that was initially to start.

And then as time has progressed, I've realized now, That there are so many

other people who are just like me in that stage who are trying to figure

out well, I have a message to share.

I'm a speaker, but nobody is allowing me to be in front of their audience.

Nobody is allowing me to speak to their group.

So this is why I've really just fell in love with podcasting, because it gives you

the opportunity to create your own stage and to be able to push your message out

to the masses and, you get to control.

Where it goes.

So that's really what I love about podcasting.

You get to build your own stage.

was there a moment where.

It clicked or like an aha moment.

Cause I've had people ask me if they thought the podcasting industry was even

gonna be around, if it was worth creating a career in, was there a moment for you

where you thought, okay, this is something I'm able and willing to go all in on.

Well, for me, honestly, Hector, it was the moment when

I got to a place of struggling.

Right.

Because I was really struggling, trying to figure out.

What am I gonna do now?

This was in the midst of me creating graphic arts at graphic design flyers.

This was in the midst of me working at a seasoning factory.

And then it got to the point to where I'm also a part of a different

community called the morning meetup.

And during this time, I was saying that I'm thinking about making the

transition to help people with podcasts

so wait a minute.

You're working at a seasoning factory as like your day job, and then

you're doing podcasting on the side.

Yeah.

So working at the seasoning factory it was a side gig.

So.

Basically, I was driving Uber.

I'm working at the seasoning factory.

I'm printing.

T-shirts like I'm doing all of these things.

And then it got to the point to where all of these things

were taken up all of my time.

And I wasn't generating like any money.

So I'd love to just dive more into what was going on.

You said you were working at the seasoning factory, you were driving Uber.

You had all these psychics take, me back there.

What, what was going on and what, what ended up happening?

this is gonna, she was like, what's the step?

I said, the step is this funnel.

I promise you it's this funnel.

Right.

Whoever's out there.

They're probably like, I've told my wife the same thing I told my partner.

I told my husband and, and, and I'm at the point to where

I set up this challenge funnel.

Okay.

So I set up a five day podcast challenge funnel I'm at a brunch, and then you

see ding, it comes through cuz somebody bought my, my ebook for like $17.

I'm like, oh, it worked, it worked.

So that, that was when it started.

And then from that five day challenge.

I was able to get one client.

And was like, oh my goodness, it worked, it worked.

And then like a month later I did another challenge, but it, it was, it still

wasn't enough money to sustain like household bills and sustain the business.

So this is why I was still doing, I was still going off and

working at the seasoning factory.

also why I was, you know, printing t-shirts on the weekends.

all of these things, I started to realize.

This is taking up way more time than it should.

And it's taking up way more time than I'm getting compensated for.

So, you know, being in, being in that moment, being in that, like that grunt

or, or being in like the gridlock.

That helped me realize because I've, I've never had a quote unquote corporate job.

I've never had one.

I worked for a nonprofit, but I never worked in the corporate environment.

So, you know, getting locked in for eight hours and it just, it just, it

just wasn't the move Hector cause.

Oh, I'm going along with this story, but I wanna, I wanna just bring it,

bring it to a point to where people can really see, but there was a point

in this journey, like in the middle of this, to where it was like, I

needed to get So I went to home Depot.

I applied, the guy comes up He, he, he comes over to me and paper

or this piece of paper not slice.

He, he was holding up this piece of paper and he had his

thumb under this, this number.

and he said, Hey, Think about that number.

Huh?

Can you, can you handle that number?

And I looked at it and I was like $10 an hour.

Are you serious?

But in that moment I was like, yeah, I I'll I'll take it.

Yeah.

I, I I'll take the job cuz I needed to be bringing in some form of money.

And man, just, just being in that, being in that space being at that time, it

was just like something has to break,

So, you your back's up wall a

lot of people are in the internet marketing space had I know I've had these

things rents Do you know things is in

the at the out to to take you from that place where you were

now

considering

taking job to to you

know podcasting

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, so J just, just like I said before, I, I leaned in, I leaned into, the, to the

podcast that was initially about sports.

So I was, I was doing the one about sports talking student and

what did you do?

What did your back's up against the wall And I feel like a lot of people

who are in the internet marketing space had I know I've had these things

rents Do you know things The wife is in the other room, you're sitting at

the computer trying to figure out what, what did, what did you do to to take

you from that place where you were now considering taking a $10 job to to

you know going in on podcasting

So, just, just to get some context, I want people to think, like I

pulled a speaking engagement outta thin air, but for to date now for six years,

I've been in the, I've been speaking.

So there was, there was prior experience that people have seen

the YouTube videos, or just seen my visibility across social media.

And now they're like, we see it.

So then that one person reached out for a speaking engagement.

I don't know how much it was.

It might have been like 2000 or a little bit more than that.

So now this, and then we add that to the, the money I got from

the first client for podcasting.

And I'm like, whoa.

We might have something.

So then it was like a slow, slow, slow, super slow trickle Hector.

But I mean, it was, it was definitely a God thing because right when

money was getting really thin, then another opportunity came

or then I got another client and I'm like, this is, this is wild.

So it was, it was definitely like the biggest faith test of my life.

And I mean, God works in mysterious ways.

I, I never stopped believing in myself, but I think this was an opportunity for my

wife also just to see how confident I was, but also knowing the amount of work that

I've been putting in, like over the years.

So, yeah, man, here we are.

that's a beautiful story and you made it on the other side because

know that you're doing some great stuff for for people And it's interesting

podcasting earlier and she we were going through was talking about how

and these countries Well can't even I couldn't even pronunciate you know,

I don't even know if I'm correctly

jaded She's that's that's just podcasting That's

You're I don't know but but the that is is

you that's a beautiful story And I'm glad you made it on the other side because I

know that you're doing some great stuff for for people And it's interesting

podcasting I was talking to a client

earlier and she we were going through

her stats and she

was talking about how

she's got listeners and may Mar and all these

countries Well can't even I couldn't even pronunciate I don't even know, if

I'm saying it correctly and you know, she's, she's baffled and I'm almost jaded.

Right.

She's amazed.

And I'm like, that's that's just podcasting

That's how, that's how.

That's how it works.

You get you're, you're charting in Uganda.

You're I don't, I don't, know but, but the universe that God is is putting

our stuff out there and, and when you do it consistently persistently

enough, then you can, you can start to leverage some of those things.

So I just think it's a beautiful story and, and a Testament to your faith.

And, and more importantly, your, your persistence in, in all that, when, when

your backs up against the wall, it's hard.

It's not always easy for people to take action in those moments, freezing up is

shoot something that, that is, is almost the easier thing to do,

but I was still just trying to get some work done because it, it, it

is bigger than me at the end of the day.

Podcasting is bigger than us, Hector.

It just is.

absolutely

Let's fast forward a little bit you know you made it and I found

you because somehow someone

you or said saying great things And so anytime I see that

on the show because I know that

when endorses somebody that's

to endorse themselves online Everybody's the biggest And so you people to

actually you know shut shut then that you're you're doing something right

we a bit before we got started about short video being that's working for You

and what's What are you doing What's what's going on with that

Yeah.

So one

absolutely Let's talk about now fast forward a little bit you know you

made it and I I found you because somehow someone recommended you or said saying

great things And so anytime I see that I just try and get 'em on the show because

I know that when someone else endorses

how can I

recreate something

everybody's trying to endorse themselves online Everybody's

for instance, like I

saw

And you get other people to actually you know shut shut then then

you know that you're you're doing something right So we talked a little

bit before we got started about short form video being something that's

working for You talk to me about that and, and what's what's happening?

What are

you doing What's what's going on with that

to your target audience.

Right?

Because you get a little bit of juice in the cup, but the majority

of the juice goes everywhere.

So, so I just repurpose it by saying, you know, are you, I asked

the question, are you speaking?

Your audience's love language?

Because at, at the end of the day, you know, there's so many

different ways that we can repurpose content, but we just wanna make sure

that it applies to our audience.

For instance, if you go on my page, you're gonna see me call out speakers.

You're gonna see me call out coaches.

You're gonna see me call out consultants.

So I repurpose stuff like that.

I, I I've even.

Just in terms of the reels.

I think a feature that a lot of people, not, not a lot of people,

but I think some people aren't really taking advantage of as well is tapping

into putting the music onto the reel.

Because if you do an Instagram reel and then you add the music

and then you turn the volume low, low, low, then that's gonna help.

Because for instance, the song could be really popular.

So the song is trend.

Therefore everybody who uses this particular song has the opportunity

to get a lot more traction because Instagram is putting a lot of focus

towards the reels and pushing those out.

So this can increase your visibility from, you know, the 500 or 50 or

5,000 followers that you have.

To 50,000 or 500,000, however many, because everybody has

the ability to go viral.

I've never, I've never gone viral.

Let me just say that.

But just seeing the way that it works, like just, you know, creating

something crafty or repurposing some content that's already out there.

You too.

Can, you know, get your face out there, which ultimately

can, will drive to followers.

And then, you know, the followers can then hear your podcast, cuz

that that's what it's all about.

Getting innovative with the reach

that

you not the

I of They make the excuse or reasons or self-awareness whatever you

wanna be the ones dancing on on on videos And I think

a of people that it's gotten a bit past that but

did you fit the the to you

mm-hmm

what

you can of of a way of a time you know

was either easy or difficult

to make it adjust to your audience or

to

You know whatever that look may look

Yeah, well, fir first of all, Hector, that's a,

that's an excellent question.

mentioned that you are not the I think a lot of people.

They make the excuse or reasons or self-awareness whatever you wanna call

it that they're not gonna be the ones dancing on on on videos And I think a lot

of people have realized that it's gotten a little bit past that but how did you fit

the

in, I was in the kitchen with my

the style to you

What what were you, can you think of of a way or can you think of a time that, you

know it was either easy or difficult to actually make it adjust to your audience

or to

Bowl.

tone or whatever that look may look like.

him around, shaking him around and I kind of started

dancing with it, not even really dancing it, but I was just shaking.

I just gave it straight.

And I told her, I said, Hey, grab the, I said, grab my phone, record this.

And then I just, I just posted it.

And I said I, I, I said, the look you have when you're coming up with some

fire podcast content, and then people engaged on it, like crazy because it,

it, I think we have to get to the point to where we understand that we all

have a platform and we all are a quote.

I don't even wanna say influencer, but we all have the ability

to influence other people.

People wanna see us in our day to day life.

People wanna see you cooking people wanna see you working out like people

wanna see these moments in these things.

So I would just suggest if somebody's like, I'm not gonna dance on TikTok

or Instagram or YouTube shorts.

I, I don't really do the dancing, but just find those moments that

you enjoy throughout the day and those moments to where you can

create re relatability with people.

And that's right there.

I feel where you can really capitalize by being yourself.

at the highest level.

Yeah.

that's what's that's

what's shine through I mean, I think there's so many so much There's many

people trying to imitate somebody else and heard That in the king Arthur

legends or the you the Knights Templar that to into the forest but they had to

take their and they couldn't actually you know they couldn't actually take

hero's journey unless they on their own path And they somebody path

Well they going you weren't gonna be

Yeah that's what's that's what's going to

shine through I mean, I think there's so many so much

There's so many people out there

trying to imitate somebody else and

I

heard That in the king Arthur legends or the the Knights Templar that

they all had to go into the

forest but they had to take

their own path

and they couldn't actually you know they couldn't actually take

the hero's journey unless they were on their own path And if they

saw that they were on somebody else's

path

Well they knew that they weren't going to, complete it or you weren't gonna be

successful cuz it had to be on their own.

And I think that I, I found myself going into that rut where I'm, I'm

trying too much to do what other people are doing and not caring

enough about what's inside of me.

And, and I think that you, you landed on that by that's.

What people resonate

with is when you're able to, to actually reveal.

oh my goodness, you, you, you go to sleep with socks on

me too, or, oh my goodness, you take showers.

Slides on me too.

Well, I don't do that, but I'm just saying, you know, it's, it is just, it's

just tho those little, those little things that we can find the relatability in.

And then we say, oh wow, I can connect with that person on a deeper level.

And I think that's really how, you know, you build that tribe and

then really grow that community.

Has any anything that

you've by when it comes to keep it say with with regards to short

perform anything that you've surprised by or something that caught you

off guard throughout the journey that people might not realize

about doing some of these videos

so the reach the reach of YouTube shorts.

Because I, I challenged myself at the beginning of the year.

I said, I'm gonna do a YouTube short video every day.

It might have been O it might have been overly optimistic because I've kind of

fallen off the wagon, but there have been a few YouTube short videos I've put out.

Has there any been anything that you've been surprised by when it

comes to let's keep it let's say with with regards to short perform video

has there been anything that you've been surprised by or something that

caught you off guard throughout the journey that people might not realize

about doing some of these videos

of a day.

So just, I, I, I think that really goes to show that when these

platforms come out with new features, We should at least give it a try.

Right?

We should at least just see what, what what's possible because by me

going through and doing those shorts, then I started to realize, oh wow.

If I word it this way, you know, what's the blueprint to

having a successful podcast or.

How to be a good podcast host, like these are things that are ranking in search.

So then after I would do a short on it, then I would say, well, depending on

the level of engagement and views that it received, then I would say, well,

maybe I should do a full episode on it.

So that, that that's something that, that surprised me in terms of J just

in terms of like reach and in terms of just, you know, traction, I, I would.

Oh, Hector, Hector, you, you muted.

postproduction about my journey but you in a I started my promotion

marketing agency doing social media I mean that's that's kind of what we

did we've moved away from Instagram because of that reach that You

talked about was just going you could use some you could up a know you could the

I've talked a lot about on this show,

my journey but just to fill you in a bit, I started my podcast promotion podcast

marketing agency doing social media I mean that's that's kind of what we did

and

we've moved away from Instagram

A lot

because of that reach that You

talked about was just going away two or three years ago, you could use

some hashtags, you could put up a video, you could get some, you could

work the system post three times a day, get new fol you know, the whole thing.

And, and that just started to disappear where, where it's still

possible to win on Instagram though

is with reels And that's because what you're talking about getting outside

of your followers, we have one show that we launched a few, few months

ago and the Instagram's got, I don't know, 50, 60 followers or something

like that, but it consistently reaches five, 10,000 people, you know, a,

a week because of the reels and the reels are, are getting outside of it.

And you ha we will have one that gets, 60 views.

And then the next one will.

Five 6,000 views.

And it's just, it's it's like playing a lotto.

I heard Colin and Samir say that.

I don't know if you, if you listen to Colin and Samir they

were recommended to me by a spree Devora.

Actually, it was

a recent interview, but they said

just like you're talking about

you know, spree.

Yeah.

She we actually her episode's coming out this week.

But she recommended that and she, they said.

Doing reels or YouTube shorts is like the closest thing to

playing like a, a slot machine.

Like you just, you don't, you don't know, you just pull the handle

and you just see what happens.

Right

The second option is

profile

there, is there tips though?

Is there things you've mentioned titles, you mentioned making relatable.

Is there any other kind of small little tactics maybe that, that someone,

Can utilize to maybe have a head start when they're getting going?

there, you, wanna make sure that the text is able, you wanna make sure

that the text falls into the profile grid.

So what that means is the words are E easy to read versus, you know,

sometimes people have texts and they type, they type it way at the top,

or they type it way at the bottom.

And then you just go, you type in the caption, then you just post it.

But whatever text that you type on the video.

If you're, if you're, if you're attempting to use that text to increase

visibility or whatever it might be, you wanna make sure that it's like

centered so that people can get an idea or a preview of what they're gonna get

when they click that video or whatever.

Cause it it's, it's all about winning the click and those little things

that you can do to help you win the click like that with the text that

that's potentially a game changer.

it's the

is it's the equivalent to a YouTube thumb Making creating

good a good thumbnail so that

when they're browsing through through the other videos in that

or that hashtag or whatever it is they're scrolling that like

said when the click I like that

anything else This has been selfishly an amazing interview for is there else

that you feel is relevant that should be said that hasn't been said today

Yeah, I was.

So I was cause I know, I know a lot of people will either, you know, be starting

out and then they decide to quit or some people are later down the line, they start

to

it's the what I'm hearing is it's like the equivalent to a YouTube thumb

side of people

creating a good a good thumbnail so that people see it when they're

browsing through scanning through the all the other videos in that, song or

that hashtag or whatever it is they're scrolling that you, like you said

when the click I like that Jonathan, is there anything else this, has been

selfishly an amazing interview for me.

was doing some research

anything else that

you feel is relevant that should be said that hasn't been said today

$8 billion industry by 2028.

Imagine.

Now it's 2022.

Imagine that you have a show.

You have 10 engaged listeners who you tell them to comment.

They comment, you tell them to buy something, they buy

it, but you're not satisfied.

And then you quit in the year of 2022 only to see somebody else end

up rolling out the same content or somewhere similar in your neat niche.

And then they capitalize at the highest level.

What I'm saying today is identify something that will motivate you to

continue to do this thing, because there are so many people, Hector,

you know, there are so many people who are looking for somebody.

Who echoes their voice are so many people who are looking for somebody

who they feel encouraged by, because they don't wanna step behind

the mic or whatever it might be.

So, man, that, that's just my final thought.

The money is in podcasting.

Yes.

It's not all about money, but we all have bills, lights

don't come on for free Hector.

Didn't get this Riverside subscription for free.

Like that's not the way life works.

So get your niche on podcasting, serve those people.

If you're not sure of what they want, ask them, what do they want you to talk about?

And then talk about it and then ask 'em again and then tell 'em to bring a friend

and then shout 'em out on the show.

And then after you do that, just repeat the whole cycle.

Oh man.

That's that's a little rant.

Sorry about that.

Hector.

beautiful It's And and it's so true too people see

the the short game in podcast

Mm-hmm

been telling people listen I think are It's podcasting with show in

the sense of as something that's for a season it's gone and in the hierarchy

if you're TV if movie you're you, have Than a TV star for or worse right

It's beautiful.

And, and it's so true And too many people see the the short game in podcast and I've

been telling people anyone who listen that I think

people

are

confusing podcasting with

like a TV

show in the sense of

they see a TV show

as something that's on for a season and it's gone and in

the sense of, in the

hierarchy if you're a TV if you're a movie star, you're you, have

you're much higher.

Than a TV star for better or worse, right.

Just simplicity's sake.

And so in the grand scheme of things, when people are looking at a podcast, they're

looking at as, as something similar to a YouTube channel because of how easy

it is to the hello, the barrier to entry is, but I've realized that it's actually

closer to writing a book because a book, when you write it, it's there forever.

People are reading books, decades, centuries later.

And the same thing is gonna happen with podcasting.

I mean, it's an RSS feed and granted, there's some hosting things that we'll

have to work through, but that podcast, if it's up there, it'll be up there forever.

I mean, our grandkids are gonna be listening to these conversations.

And so when someone puts that stuff in perspective and they start to

realize that they don't have the followers, the downloads, the listen.

that they, that they perceived right away.

I think they're not viewing it in the right perspective, the right window.

Right.

I mean, most, most there's that whole thing about, not appreciating an

artist until they're gone or, not, not appreciated a rapper until they're gone.

Like, like that whole thing

they can just listen

where art isn't appreciated to its, its ma maximum capacity.

You.

in the right when it's released.

And so I guess that that's kind of my thing is that people aren't

realizing that podcasting have a much, it has a much bigger place, in it.

And so I think that that's just echoing a little bit about

what you're saying and, and to

not shortchange the opportunity that

man, I'm I'm, Anyway, I can support, man.

Let know,

this been fantastic And and I'm sure the first of many

conversations mentor your mentor I it's the podcast but the show

your Jonathan Jones Twitter but also on Instagram I just well

else that.

people and and get connected think you have some that

people can can go And, watch

Yeah, you can go to get paid with podcasting.com

to, to catch the, the training.

I'm sure we're gonna have one coming up.

So still doing, still doing the live trainings and yeah, you can go to your

podcast, mentor, show.com and that's where you can catch the podcast.

Jonathan this has been fantastic And, and I'm sure the first

of many conversations your show is your podcast, mentor your podcast mentor

I don't know if it's the podcast but that's the show your podcast mentor.

You're all over social.

Jonathan Jones we connected on Twitter but you're also on Instagram I just

followed you as well Is there anywhere else that people should go and and get

connected I think you have some training out there as well that people can

can go and watch I love it, Jonathan.

Thanks for coming and hanging out.

And we'll definitely have to do it round two.

You guys were listening.

We appreciate you being part of the fam.