Fr. Larry Dowling — Bringing Restorative Practices to Parish Life

Caitlin Morneau

Welcome to Encounters with Dignity, a podcast on restorative justice from Catholic Mobilizing Network. Here, we bear witness to the stories, learnings, and actionable wisdom of people putting restorative justice into practice.

I’m Caitlin Morneau, CMN’s Director of Restorative Justice, and your host.

This season we’re taking a close look at the U.S. criminal legal system through the eyes of those most impacted by it.

Together, we’ll unpack the connections between Catholic values and responses to crime that allow all those involved to understand the impact of the harm—and do what is needed to make things right.

May it be so…

I’m so grateful to share today’s conversation with you. Fr. Larry Dowling is a recently retired Catholic priest in the Archdiocese of Chicago who has championed restorative justice in his parish and the legal system alike.

Fr. Larry’s parishes implement restorative practices like circle process in every aspect of church life—from parenting groups, to bible studies, to parish council meetings. You’ll hear him explain how embracing these approaches has helped to strengthen relationships, heal wounds, bridge divides, and advocate for safer, healthier communities.

His theological understanding of a restorative approach is biblical, pastoral, practical, and rooted in the lived realities of his parishioners.

For the last 17 years, Fr. Larry has served as pastor of St. Agatha Catholic Church, which recently merged with St. Martin de Porres Church to become St. Simon of Cyrene Catholic Parish. These churches serve predominantly African American communities on the West Side of Chicago.

Father Larry, thank you so much for joining us on Encounters with Dignity. It's a pleasure to have you with us today.

Fr. Larry Dowling

It's good to be with you. Thanks, Caitlin.

Caitlin Morneau

Okay, Father Larry, let's dive right in.

Caitlin Morneau

You have been a priest for 33 years, and you've been pastor at formerly St. Agatha Catholic Church, now St. Simon of Cyrene, for 17 years. So help us get to know your parish community a little bit, and how do you see your role as pastor there?

Fr. Larry Dowling

So Caitlin, the parish is situated on the West Side of Chicago in mostly African-American community, mix of African-American growing Hispanic community as well. But an area that really is underserved in a lot of different ways, affected heavily by systemic racism, heavily affected by just violence and so many other things that have devastated these communities over the years through housing abuses and criminal justice system abuses. For me, as pastor on the West Side, it really is about being present to people as much as possible, building relationships, and then out of those relationships, how do we support each other and just kind of lifting each other up as community?

So that focuses on individuals, it focuses on families, it focuses on the whole community and really looking at each of those different levels of kind of relationship building as key in building relationship. Diminishing violence, increasing people's social and economic equality.

Caitlin Morneau

Yeah, I know you have a particular passion for supporting families through violence, conflict and healing. What are some of the wounds that your parishioners are experiencing? And how does the parish attend to some of those needs?

Fr. Larry Dowling

There's no question, I think, that the level of trauma and many types of trauma that people experience in the community, that they carry with them. And in a lot of ways, it's how do you meet people where they're at? How do you get to know them? How do you build trust? And then how do you help them process the grief, dealing with the trauma, so that they are not operating out of that on a daily basis, but instead can emerge out of that. So a lot of what we do is really relationship building, providing opportunities for parents to come together for what we call parent enrichment, really helping them to both reflect on their own self-care, but also how they're caring for their children, how can they improve communication in the home, what are some of the ways that they can resolve conflict in peaceful ways and non-abusive language ways. It's working with the kids and the parents together, oftentimes and kind of helping them talk to each other sometimes for the first time in any significant way, sadly.

It’s providing programs, a lot of work around restorative justice where we bring parents in circle. We bring youth in circles. We bring parents and youth together in circles. We bring men in circles, women in circles. We bring returning citizens from prison and jail, in circles as well.

And again, it's just a way of building community and really moving towards some sort of formal organizing to demand the things that the community and the families deserve in the community.

In terms of the justice system, have done a lot through community organizing, both in the area and beyond the area with other churches and congregations for criminal justice reform in Chicago.

Caitlin Morneau

Awesome, and we're going to come back to some of that community organizing in a bit. But I’m curious, what was your first introduction to restorative justice, and why did it resonate with you?

Fr. Larry Dowling

So my first introduction really was through a friend of mine, a priest friend of mine who's worked with the Precious Blood Ministry here in Chicago, David Kelly. Initially it was, just to hear him express how he had started connecting with restorative justice. It really was about some women who had experienced um losses of loved ones from gun violence coming to him and just asking if he would facilitate helping them to heal yeah and come together. And so he brought them together.

And out of that came some energy to really say, okay, what do we do with this now? I mean, we've all grown from this, we've where there's a connection here. And so they suggested to Dave that they invite the mothers of those who had shot their loved one into the circle. And so they did that. And again, over the course of several months, built this bond. And then they collectively decided to go out together and start doing some peace building in the community and in some pretty significant ways.

So that for me was just a stark example of how that energy of coming together can build a deep bond, there's an energy that comes out of it that is life-giving. And so it's like, what do you do with that energy? And then how do you take that into the world? Well, you invite other people into circling conversations, but you also get out there and do some work that is about changing the world.

Caitlin Morneau

Beautiful. I know Father David was the first episode of Encounters with Dignity where he shares more of the stories that you made mention of as well. And I so enjoy when I get to hear you preach, Father Larry, because you find restorative justice everywhere in scripture and Catholic tradition and sometimes in unexpected places. So tell me some of your favorite biblical or theological linkages with restorative justice or living restoratively.

Fr. Larry Dowling

Sure. I think all of the healing stories, all of the casting out demon stories are not just about individual healing or individual freeing from demonic possession but about, reconnecting with the community, about reconnecting the individual with the community.

Most recently, we had the woman with the hemorrhage, who touched the cloak of Jesus and Jesus calls her out in the middle of the crowd and says, “Who touched my cloak?” And part of it for me, the reason, is first of all to affirm her faith and belief but also to say to the community that had previously ostracized her because of her illness, to say, “She's now whole and you need to welcome her back”.

In that same reading is the story of the synagogue official who comes to Jesus to ask to cure his daughter, who is dying. Again, it's a sense of not only curing her, but reuniting her with her family. Again, there's always a sense of this kind of like connection and community connection that I think we oftentimes overlook because we just kind of look at the individual healing or whatever. But there's always this kind of building of unity that Jesus does.

Even on the cross, I mean, Jesus is being restored. Okay, Father or forgive them for they know not what they do, and opening up to that sense that, okay, we're we're not perfect. The classic thing for me, Caitlin, was a number of years ago, Good Friday, I was sitting and kind of reflecting on that phrase, Jesus, Father, forgive them.

And for some reason, it made me kind of go to parents in the community, because oftentimes parents get blamed for what their kids do and it really made me kind of think about, okay, how are we ministering these parents? Because a lot of these parents want to do their best for the kids, absolutely want to. But they don't know what that looks like sometimes and what that feels like sometimes and so we as Church have the opportunity to do that.

And I think I'm developing my own theology around this, is Holy Saturday and the tomb. And for me, that's a place where, as Christians, we tend to look, okay, we get through Good Friday and now, we just have this day, we're waiting to get to Easter Sunday. Well, there's stuff happening there and that needs to happen. And for me, it's that place where the pain and hurt and struggle and death and all that kind of stuff actually coexist with this infinite love that is not containable, which is why there's resurrection.

But in the midst of that, that's where we have the conversations. That's where we kind of talk about all the hurt and pain and all that. But that's also where there's trust that God is in the mix of it all and ultimately is going to help, through that process of conversation and connecting and deep knowing of each other that ultimately leads us to resurrection. For me, that's the journey.

And I think it's getting us to that point where we stop avoiding the cross or wanting to avoid pain when in reality, we need to go through the cross. We need to go through that. We need to enter into the depth of the cross to re-emerge, in a different way, in a more positive way.

God is always providing, in the midst of all the craziness of life. God is always providing means of resurrection, and we just simply need to tap into that. And that's been my whole philosophy, theology for so many years. It's like, when there's a challenge out there, when something bad happens, it's like, “OK, God, what are you asking me to do in this moment or us to do in this moment, that's going to somehow bring about some new life and new possibilities?”

That's core to the scriptures, it's core to the Eucharist, which is very dear to my heart and that whole sense of even in the Eucharistic prayer, this whole sense of breaking open our lives and pouring out our lifeblood like Jesus for others. But also that phrase, “do this in remembrance of me,” which I always have to remind my parishioners that this isn't just about re-creating this moment, but “doing this in memory of me” means go out and actually break open your life, pour out your life blood for others.

There's a richness, I think, to our tradition, to our faith, to our scripture, to our celebration of the Eucharist and all the sacraments that really are meant to be restorative across the board. No question about it.

Caitlin Morneau

Thank you so much just for breaking those open for us. I think about how restorative practices create this space for nourishing one another and to be in the discomfort, the pain, the transition together. And so share with us about how restorative practices and particularly circles have become a part of the lifeblood of Saint Agatha and Saint Cyrene. How did they begin to take shape in the life of the parish and what do they look like today?

Fr. Larry Dowling

So, initially actually my interest in the circles and and learning restorative justice practices was actually focused on a program that the parish did every year prior to me being there of giving out gifts at Christmas time and people would show up in October, sign up for gifts and then go home and and come back in December and get their gifts. And it was like, okay, there's no connection here. I mean we're just inviting people to come up, sign it… And so let's figure out some way to connect with these people and invite them into a conversation and get to know them and let them get to know us and all that.

Which is when I approached Father Dave and said, “Will you do a training for us?” So we actually had 17 parishioners who stepped up and said they wanted to be trained. The first time we used the circle process was with over 250 parents in a gym space and then breaking into the small groups. And I wasn't quite sure what the reaction would be. But as people were leaving it's like, “Wow, this was great! Looking forward to coming back next week.”

And from that point, I really started talking to other people in the community, especially some of the former gang-involved people who were now trying to get their lives together and all the kinds about this whole process and convinced them to go through training as circle keepers and all that. And they totally embraced it and are using it out in the community in a number of different ways but also at Saint Agatha. They're doing it in the jail every week and do life skill, manhood skill, fatherhood skill, circles with men in there. And when they get out then, there's this relationship already built and we can start connecting them to other resources that are going to help them to rebuild their lives. There's a mutual empowerment to it that I think is really key.

I resist the language of empowerment in terms of I'm going to empower you to do something because for me that implies a hierarchy, that I've got something to give you, but you don't have anything to offer me. I've changed that over the last several years to really kind of say, look really the heart of our faith is this sense of mutual accompaniment. And we mutually empower each other. And so there's not this sense of I'm leaning down to pick you up, but it's like we're getting down together and we're lifting each other up. For me, that's the core of restorative justice. That's the core of circles. It's like, we come together as equals, sharing wisdom, experience, hope, dreams, struggles, all those sorts of things.

The heart of the scriptures for me is going to Jesus’ last prayer to the Father before he goes to his crucifixion. And the phrase that “all may be one,” that, for me, that's the very deepest longing of God that “all be one.” And so it's like, how do we participate in that? How do we work for unity and in, and counter the division in our society, counter the division sometimes in our churches, kind of counter the divisions that are out there and open ourselves up to the power of really, how do we how do we bring people together?

And again, restorative justice, the circles are great ways to do that, to bring people together in this safe space, courageous space, whatever, that you can share freely and in confidentiality and benefit from it in such a way that you're going to go out and things are going to be different.

How do we not only tell people you need to go out and live your life and live a holy life and all this kind of stuff, but how do we do that collectively as a church community or as Church? We're supposed to organize. But yet, at the same time, we struggle oftentimes with that in the Church. But it's this collective, and how do we work together? How do we come together as one and then continue to build those bonds that they'll bring others into this oneness, this unity with God?

Caitlin Morneau

So speaking of working together and how this internal work forms us to go out, tell us more about the restorative justice community courts in Chicago, for our listeners who might not be familiar. And then what does your partnership look like with the parish's involvement in those courts?

Fr. Larry Dowling

So the court really came out of some organizing that we did, particularly with the chief judge here in Chicago, really trying to push for ways to move from the punitive system and instead move toward a restorative model. And so, we convinced the Chief Judge, Timothy Evans, to look at this model and to okay a pilot for it.

So, we had seven leaders in the community come together with seven people from the system, and start imagining what this would look like. It's an opportunity for you to be engaged by community, be supported by community, be loved by community. But also to be held accountable for whatever you did; but accountable in a way that, okay, how could we help you in terms of restoration, restitution, but also how can we help you continue on your path and avoid further involvement in the justice system.

And so, the creation of this from day one was like, okay, what's it going to look like when you enter the doors? What's it going to look like, actually in the courtroom? Where's the sense of equality and all of that?

And so, just imagining this whole structure, where there's a huge round table, and you've got the judge sitting with the person that has done the offense, perhaps somebody that's supporting them as well. You have other community advocates there. You have circle keepers there. You have case managers there. You have social service people there together, to say, okay, how do we engage this journey to help this individual through a process of circle, over several circles typically, really imagine what restoration looks like for them.

So how do they make restitution for what they've done, but also what's going to change for them in terms of their life? And so what are some of the goals they set for themselves, that they realistically can accomplish within a short period of time and then to look at long term as well. But the short term is what helps them to kind of like move ahead and through the circle process of working with a case manager, actually achieve those things, to be able to come back to the judge and say, “I fulfilled all these requirements,” and so for the judge then to be able to say, “Okay, you fulfilled your plan. You no longer have a record.” Go out and continue to stay on track.

And then, even at that point, the community is like stepping up and saying, “Okay, we're gonna be working with you as you now pursue your GED, or now you get a job. Absolutely everyone benefits. Some of the ways that the court system and the prison system actually send people back worse than they went in and and and oftentimes creates situations where they're back in.

The restorative justice court is now in five different areas in the county now. And we hope it's going to just be a norm and focused on nonviolent crimes, though there's efforts now to really expand to some other types of crime that can be helpful in terms of restoration.

Caitlin Morneau

Thank you so much for just explaining how the Restorative Justice Community Courts work and your part in them. So we’ve been exploring some of the wounds that we carry as individuals, as families, and society. I know we both recognize that these wounds show up in the Church too, including the sin of racism. One of the ways that your parish has responded is to host Sacred Conversations on Race. There’s a great blog about it on CMN’s website and it’s linked in the show notes. Would you tell us about those sacred conversations? How did they come to be, and what fruits have you seen from them?

Fr. Larry Dowling

Yeah, I mean the creation of conversation actually came out of an initiative in Chicago that they have every January. I forgot the name of the organization that sponsors it, but basically to have conversations about contemporary issues, but over the last several years has been focused on racism and systemic racism and those sorts of things. So we had a group come together at the parish from two or three different parishes and from the community. Initially about 50 people came together for that first evening, which was meant to be only one evening, and kind of coming together and sharing. And then reporting back to the collective body.

So we did the first evening but by the end of the first evening, I just felt this energy, and so said to the group, “How's everybody feeling? What would you think about coming together once a month to do this?” And I mean, there was just kind of this resounding, “Yes, let's do this.”

It was an opportunity, which we have done for four years, five years now, that really provides an opportunity for people to come together, share a meal, break bread together, and then to break into groups to really do some self-reflection on different aspects of how systemic racism is manifested in our society.

Over time, we've built some strong bonds. There's some good actions here and there. But overall, I think that's kind of like connectedness that really affirmed for those who are Black, people of color, that other people do care. But also opening the eyes of myself and my white counterparts. It's opened me up to kind of reflect on, okay, how do I take what I've learned and then somehow put it into a way that's going to help other people who look like me, like you, to open up and see that it is this cancer, it is this wound that we all carry. None of us chose it. But it's in us and that we need, first of all to acknowledge it and then, okay, how do we work to become a part of the solution rather than continue to be part of the problem and I think that's the ongoing struggle.

For me, the only way to get there is through a spiritual path, because for me, it takes that courage, if you will, to step out and say, I want to take this journey and really move toward, how do I first acknowledge this wound within. It's a cancer in our society. It's a cancer in the Church. It will never destroy the Body of Christ but it enfeebles the Body of Christ.

So if we truly acknowledge this and embrace this and and and take this journey, then we can eliminate the cancer or we can diminish the effect of the cancer, those sorts of things.

And so again, it's acknowledging that stuff, but it's also like, okay, how do I counter that? How do not only I make a difference, but how do we make a difference together in the mix of this?

Caitlin Morneau

And so speaking of being on that journey, what advice would you have for parish leaders, whether lay or ordained, who feel drawn toward this way of incorporating restorative justice, restorative practices into parish life?

Fr. Larry Dowling

From a very base level I think to start from even the level of parish leadership, I think, can be helpful. So, for pastor, for parish council to kind of start out in in a circle mode, if you will, their meetings, to do some prayer together and then to do some faith sharing, to continue to build that bond with each other as a group, as a leadership group.

And I've always encouraged this – we started this a number of years ago at Saint Agatha – was you got to spend at least 20-25 minutes okay in sharing in the first part of your meeting okay and most people was like well that's a waste of time we've got business to cover and that kind of stuff. But what we found was that actually the business got done pretty quickly as these relationships were built because again, there's a sense of connection that helped things move along. But it took some structure. It took some time to do that.

And then, at the close of every meeting to kind of like do a circle, kind of like checking in or checking out. But also in a reflective way to say, “Ok, what decisions we made or whatever, how does that honor the mission that we've been called to do as a parish community?” So, getting people to reflect on that.

I was with a couple the other night that have restructured a process they've been doing for 15 years, a Bible study, restructuring it into this sort of model, and where a member of the group has to come with a topic they want to talk about and they said it's just been wonderful. And they've spent hours processing some of these issues that affect our daily lives. But it comes out of that collective energy of relationship, that's already there.

And I think the key for me in even talking about especially controversial issues, the key for me has always been never start out with that issue. You've got to build relationships. It takes two or three circle gatherings to just kind of build those relationships. And then you can start diving into the hard stuff.

It's like, how do you build these communities? Some people call them small faith communities, but in a lot of ways, they're places where people can come, share freely, share wisdom, share experience. But also in the process, be open to learn new things along the way.

Caitlin Morneau

Thank you so much, Father Larry, all of this rich wisdom. We're so grateful for your leadership and your sharing with us on Encounters with Dignity. Blessings on your continued ministry.

Fr. Larry Dowling

Thank you so much, Caitlin. Blessings on all your great work.

Caitlin Morneau

“The heart of our faith is mutual accompaniment, it’s not me leaning down to pick you up, but together we lift each other up”. This was just one of the many moments of this conversation that will stay with me.

And I love how Fr. Larry articulates restorative justice and circles as fundamental expressions of this imperative – in how we show up as community members with one another and how he’s weaved it into every fiber of his pastoral approach. It has infused all aspects of parish life, from one-on-one conversations, to overcoming conflict, to community organizing for justice and equity.

Fr. Larry’s communities are a living testament of what’s possible when we embrace processes that foster deep listening and honor the human dignity of every person involved.

Over here at CMN, it feels like a perfect time to share with you about a new formation program that we designed to grow restorative practices in our parishes and ministries. It’s called “Conversations in Communion: Parish Dialogues for Connection and Understanding.” The program’s facilitator guide booklet and virtual training equips Catholics to build a culture of connection and understanding using the restorative practice of circle process.

To learn more and get involved with Conversations in Communion, visit: catholicsmobilizing.org/conversations .

I’m left with Fr. Larry’s invitation to live the practices of restorative justice as an expression of our faith. As he recalled in the words of Jesus, “doing this in memory of me means going out and actually breaking open our lives for others.” May we each prayerfully discern ways to do just that.

I hope you enjoyed this episode of Encounters With Dignity. Be sure to subscribe to our show from your favorite podcast platform, or by visiting catholicsmobilizing.org/encounters.

To stay connected with Catholic Mobilizing Network and our mission to end the death penalty and promote restorative justice, follow us on social media or sign up for our emails at catholicsmobilizing.org/join.

Join us next month when we’ll talk with Mike Butler, a retired police chief from Longmont, CO who embraced restorative principles and practices in order to reinvent public safety responses in his community.

Let us close in prayer:

Good and gracious God, thank you for this opportunity to come together, to be in relationship across time and distance. May this conversation remind us that every person has dignity because we are made in Your image and likeness - cherished and beloved. May we participate with one another in the redemption that you made possible by your suffering, death, and resurrection. And may we bear witness to your healing, restorative, transformative work in the world. We ask this in the name of Jesus Christ, your son. Amen.

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