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Impostor Syndrome
Episode 520th May 2022 • In The Bunker • Joshua Maddux
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In this episode Kris Kelso and Joshua Maddux talk about the struggled of Impostor Syndrome. This really hits home as a small business owner and launching this podcast. This episode is packed full of awesome notes and takeaways.

Get a free sample chapter of his book at: https://overcomingtheimpostor.com/resources

Our episode highlights:

  • Change the definition of failure
  • Vulnerability - you have to open up to overcome Imposter syndrome.
  • Humble confidence - Be aware of your limitations, but know that you can learn and grow.

Bio: Kris Kelso is a keynote speaker, entrepreneur, and is the author of “Overcoming The Impostor: Silence Your Inner Critic and Lead with Confidence“.

Trained and certified as an executive coach, Kris has worked with hundreds of entrepreneurs, business owners, and their leadership teams. He is a faculty instructor at the Professional Christian Coaching Institute, an advisor and instructor at the Nashville Entrepreneur Center, a Facilitator / Coach with The Alternative Board, and is a contributing writer for publications including Fast Company Magazine, Yahoo Finance, and The Nashville Business Journal.

Kris has founded multiple companies and has served on the boards of directors of several non-profit organizations. He is an active member of Cornerstone Nashville, where he serves, teaches, and coaches other leaders. He lives with his wife and three teenaged sons in a suburb of Nashville, Tennessee.

Links:

  • LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/kriskelso
  • Website: https://www.kriskelso.com
  • Facebook: https://facebook.com/thekriskelso
  • IG: https://www.instagram.com/thekriskelso

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Transcripts

Joshua Maddux:

Welcome back.

Joshua Maddux:

In the bunker.

Joshua Maddux:

Today's episode is going to be a little different.

Joshua Maddux:

Um, in the sense of, this is a challenge that.

Joshua Maddux:

I myself has struggled with.

Joshua Maddux:

In starting this podcast in the bunker.

Joshua Maddux:

I was faced with the issue of imposter syndrome, myself.

Joshua Maddux:

I planned on launching in the bunker back in January of 2022.

Joshua Maddux:

After prerecording, a handful of episodes.

Joshua Maddux:

However.

Joshua Maddux:

After I had gone through and edited some.

Joshua Maddux:

I just didn't feel like everything was fully polished.

Joshua Maddux:

And wasn't as good as it could be.

Joshua Maddux:

I felt like an imposter.

Joshua Maddux:

And.

Joshua Maddux:

I just, I didn't.

Joshua Maddux:

I didn't hit go.

Joshua Maddux:

I didn't launch.

Joshua Maddux:

And.

Joshua Maddux:

January became February, February became March.

Joshua Maddux:

And then you can't launch a podcast the first week of April.

Joshua Maddux:

And so I just kept pushing the deadline.

Joshua Maddux:

And it wasn't until I started editing this episode.

Joshua Maddux:

I need to put a date on when I'm launching the podcast.

Joshua Maddux:

And so.

Joshua Maddux:

This is a challenge that I, myself struggle with.

Joshua Maddux:

And I think so many other business owners do as well.

Joshua Maddux:

I'm super excited to jump into this episode.

Joshua Maddux:

And have Chris unpack.

Joshua Maddux:

What imposter syndrome looks like.

Joshua Maddux:

How it can hurt business owners.

Joshua Maddux:

And some things that we can do to sort of combat that as well.

Joshua Maddux:

I really do want to thank everyone who has listened.

Joshua Maddux:

As business owners, there are so many things that we

Joshua Maddux:

battle with on a daily basis.

Joshua Maddux:

And.

Joshua Maddux:

Knowing that.

Joshua Maddux:

There are other people out there that struggle with the same challenges as us.

Joshua Maddux:

Is just super relieving.

Joshua Maddux:

Um, and knowing that you have someone else.

Joshua Maddux:

Who you can rely on both for.

Joshua Maddux:

Resources, but also just the aspect of them being there,

Joshua Maddux:

sort of as a sounding wall.

Joshua Maddux:

So I appreciate Chris and everything he talks about in this episode.

Joshua Maddux:

I appreciate you as a listener.

Joshua Maddux:

And I really am excited to jump in.

Joshua Maddux:

So.

Joshua Maddux:

Thanks for being here this week

Joshua Maddux:

Today, we have Chris Kelso on the show with us.

Joshua Maddux:

Chris was faced with a challenge of imposter syndrome.

Joshua Maddux:

So many small businesses feel this, that fake it till you make it type aspect.

Joshua Maddux:

And really, we all go through that in starting a business.

Joshua Maddux:

Chris felt that his success was more accidental than earned and

Joshua Maddux:

he wasn't legit as an honorary.

Joshua Maddux:

There's so much here to learn and to unpack, I'm excited to jump

Joshua Maddux:

in and have Chris on the show.

Joshua Maddux:

Welcome to the show, Chris.

Kris Kelso:

Thank you.

Kris Kelso:

Josh is going to be

Kris Kelso:

here.

Joshua Maddux:

Awesome.

Joshua Maddux:

So let's get to know you a little bit better.

Joshua Maddux:

Let's go ahead and unpack who are you and how'd you get here?

Joshua Maddux:

What do you.

Kris Kelso:

My career has been a sort of twisty turny road, driven a lot by

Kris Kelso:

my curiosity and passions and interests.

Kris Kelso:

I had a short stint in the music industry in my late teens, early twenties.

Kris Kelso:

And then I.

Kris Kelso:

Sort of pivoted into technology and spent several years as a software developer,

Kris Kelso:

working with some large healthcare firms.

Kris Kelso:

And for years I said, I never wanted to own a business.

Kris Kelso:

I had no interest in being an entrepreneur.

Kris Kelso:

I didn't want the risk and the headaches and everything that I saw

Kris Kelso:

that business owners seem to have to deal with just was not appealing to me.

Kris Kelso:

And then.

Kris Kelso:

It was as if one day I woke up and nothing else made sense to me

Kris Kelso:

except starting my own company, like somewhere a switch flipped.

Kris Kelso:

And I just knew that I had to go into business for myself and come

Kris Kelso:

to find out, years later I looked back and realize that I always had

Kris Kelso:

entrepreneurship in my blood, if you will.

Kris Kelso:

I was always trying different things and launching little side

Kris Kelso:

ventures and figuring out what yeah.

Kris Kelso:

Make money.

Kris Kelso:

And and even some of my family history, there's some entrepreneurship there

Kris Kelso:

and maybe that's just what I was running from for a period of time.

Kris Kelso:

Even my wife knew she later told me that she always knew I

Kris Kelso:

would own a business one day.

Kris Kelso:

And even when I was saying that I'd never wanted to do that, she was going, yeah.

Kris Kelso:

Yeah, we'll see.

Kris Kelso:

So I I started my first company about 15 years ago.

Kris Kelso:

It was an it consulting firm focused on working with pretty large

Kris Kelso:

companies that had dysfunctional and underperforming it departments.

Kris Kelso:

And I started that business on my own with just me at the beginning.

Kris Kelso:

I had no real business education, but I went and bought a stack of books at

Kris Kelso:

a bookstore on everything I thought I needed to know to run a business and

Kris Kelso:

I read them all and, and just figured out how to learn what I needed to learn

Kris Kelso:

along the way, very much in real time.

Kris Kelso:

But eventually I grew that company to millions in revenue and had a team

Kris Kelso:

of mostly former CIOs and VP level people that worked together to help our

Kris Kelso:

clients really improve their IT work.

Kris Kelso:

And over the years, I, it I co-founded a second company, a cloud computing

Kris Kelso:

platform ran that a CEO for a couple of years raised a little bit of money

Kris Kelso:

from some investors for that one.

Kris Kelso:

Got it to profitability.

Kris Kelso:

And then for the last five or so years, I have been working independently.

Kris Kelso:

As an executive coach and doing leadership development work primarily with

Kris Kelso:

entrepreneurs and their leadership teams.

Kris Kelso:

So I do one-on-one coaching.

Kris Kelso:

I do some group and team sessions strategic planning and goal

Kris Kelso:

setting and leadership training.

Kris Kelso:

And I do a bit of public speaking and last year or in 2020, I wrote a book

Kris Kelso:

and published it in January of 2021.

Kris Kelso:

It's always interesting to hear the the story of what

Kris Kelso:

that journey has looked like.

Kris Kelso:

And, it's always so different for so many people, but I think it's funny

Kris Kelso:

because I think one of the common things for entrepreneurs that say I'm

Kris Kelso:

never going to start my own business.

Kris Kelso:

Like I think that's the number one telltale sign that you

Kris Kelso:

will be starting a business.

Kris Kelso:

You may be starting.

Kris Kelso:

Yes.

Joshua Maddux:

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux:

Always so good.

Joshua Maddux:

Obviously through this whole path and the journey that you've been on,

Joshua Maddux:

there's been some challenges over the years, what businesses without them.

Joshua Maddux:

I know one of the challenges and obviously the main one that you wrote

Joshua Maddux:

a book on was that imposter syndrome.

Kris Kelso:

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux:

Would love to dive into that a little bit

Joshua Maddux:

and talk through some of that.

Joshua Maddux:

You mentioned how you started an it consulting firm by literally grabbing a

Joshua Maddux:

few books off a shelf and reading them.

Joshua Maddux:

But then the company had multiple different, high level executives

Joshua Maddux:

doing millions of dollars a year.

Joshua Maddux:

So obviously there's a point where.

Joshua Maddux:

You realize oh, we've made it or, Hey, we aren't an imposter anymore.

Joshua Maddux:

So what did that journey look like?

Joshua Maddux:

What is that overcoming the imposter sort of syndrome look like?

Kris Kelso:

As I said, I started my business with no real business education.

Kris Kelso:

In fact, I never even went to college.

Kris Kelso:

I don't have a degree.

Kris Kelso:

And that's a whole, another long story of the history of how I got to where I was.

Kris Kelso:

But at the time I had no real business training, but I knew

Kris Kelso:

there were things I didn't know.

Kris Kelso:

And I I bought a stack of books, as I mentioned I read them all

Kris Kelso:

and and every time I encountered something that I didn't know.

Kris Kelso:

I figured out a way to learn it.

Kris Kelso:

And sometimes in real time, as I was doing it just as the need arose, but

Kris Kelso:

because of that, I always carried this persistent fear, this nagging.

Kris Kelso:

Voice in the back of my head that would tell me that at some point you're going

Kris Kelso:

to encounter something that you don't know that you should know, and you're

Kris Kelso:

going to be exposed as a fraud because you didn't go to business school and you

Kris Kelso:

don't actually know what you're doing.

Kris Kelso:

You just read a few books and you started a company and you've landed your first

Kris Kelso:

client because of a relationship with a former boss that you used to work to.

Kris Kelso:

And he just was throwing you a bone.

Kris Kelso:

And if it wasn't for that, you never would have got this off the ground.

Kris Kelso:

And.

Kris Kelso:

And no matter what I achieved that voice would always come up with

Kris Kelso:

some other milestone that I hadn't hit or some other criteria, right?

Kris Kelso:

You're you're not a real business until you have employees.

Kris Kelso:

You're not a real business until you have a million dollars in revenue.

Kris Kelso:

You're not a real business until you have a physical office space.

Kris Kelso:

You're not a real business until you have a full C-suite of leaders.

Kris Kelso:

And anything that I would accomplish and figure out there was always some voice of

Kris Kelso:

doubt saying there's something else that, that you're missing that you don't know.

Kris Kelso:

And that feeling of, I don't know, what I don't know is this perpetual never ending

Kris Kelso:

fear if you allow it to overtake you.

Kris Kelso:

And it wasn't until years later probably 10 years into my

Kris Kelso:

entrepreneurial journey that.

Kris Kelso:

Learned about imposter syndrome and it was actually with an executive coach that

Kris Kelso:

I was talking to that explained it to me.

Kris Kelso:

And I started to do some real research and reading about it and, oh my goodness.

Kris Kelso:

It was such a relief.

Kris Kelso:

When I learned that not only is this a thing that psychologists have

Kris Kelso:

recognized and that, they've put a label on it because it's a phenomenon

Kris Kelso:

that's common to a lot of people.

Kris Kelso:

It is also something that is more prevalent among high achievers.

Kris Kelso:

It's actually statistically more likely that you have

Kris Kelso:

those feelings of self doubt.

Kris Kelso:

If you're a driven intentional very ambitious and aggressive person people

Kris Kelso:

that just coast through life don't suffer from imposter syndrome because

Kris Kelso:

they don't really aspire to much, but the people that are trying to grow and

Kris Kelso:

stretch themselves, Are often finding themselves in a place of being in over

Kris Kelso:

their head or out of their comfort zone or, feeling like maybe they've

Kris Kelso:

out kicked their coverage, so to speak.

Kris Kelso:

And that's a sign that you're doing great things, but the fear

Kris Kelso:

that comes with it, the worry and the anxiety can be debilitating.

Kris Kelso:

If you let it control you.

Kris Kelso:

And so learning about it was the first big hurdle and it was a big relief, but

Kris Kelso:

then I had to figure out how to manage it, how to master it, how to overcome it.

Kris Kelso:

And that's what I ended up writing this book about.

Joshua Maddux:

As you're talking, I'm thinking through.

Joshua Maddux:

Looking at the aspect of, I think so many companies face that because there's

Joshua Maddux:

always another thing as a business owner.

Joshua Maddux:

When we've been in business 13 years, now, my company has, and going back,

Joshua Maddux:

I don't know, maybe eight or 10 years ago, I'm sitting with a prospect and

Joshua Maddux:

the guy goes you don't have an office.

Kris Kelso:

Yeah

Joshua Maddux:

no, we don't.

Joshua Maddux:

And he was like I'd be more comfortable with, hiring you

Joshua Maddux:

guys if you had an office.

Joshua Maddux:

And for me it was like, oh, we're not a legitimate company, but at

Joshua Maddux:

the same point, if I was to get an office, then I would have to

Joshua Maddux:

increase, my costs by 20, 30, 40, 50%.

Joshua Maddux:

And so I'm like, okay is that client then willing to pay?

Joshua Maddux:

One and a half to two times what I'm estimating their costs are

Joshua Maddux:

going to be, and that client's not.

Joshua Maddux:

So then they either need to be okay with us not having an office because that's not

Joshua Maddux:

the type of business we are or we need to be okay with not having them as a client.

Joshua Maddux:

I think sometimes that's where the fear gets exponential because not

Joshua Maddux:

only is it the fear of, oh, we're not a real business because we don't

Joshua Maddux:

have an office but if we don't have an office, then we lose this project.

Joshua Maddux:

If we lose this project, then we aren't making money.

Joshua Maddux:

If we're not making money, we're not in business.

Joshua Maddux:

So if I don't have an office and there's this spiral

Joshua Maddux:

effect, I think we can go into.

Kris Kelso:

The whole, thing unravels in your mind even before

Kris Kelso:

the first domino has fallen.

Kris Kelso:

You see it all coming apart.

Joshua Maddux:

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux:

And, owning a digital agency.

Joshua Maddux:

We've had clients over the years, come to us and, Hey, we need to look like

Joshua Maddux:

this other company or we need to look like we're five times bigger and we need

Joshua Maddux:

to fake it till we make it or whatever.

Joshua Maddux:

And in reality, Online.

Joshua Maddux:

Yes, you can do that to a point,

Joshua Maddux:

But at the same point, if you're

Joshua Maddux:

looking like another company and you're trying to be that other

Joshua Maddux:

thing, then why are you in business?

Joshua Maddux:

Because if you're trying to be exactly like someone else, then your prospect

Joshua Maddux:

is just going to hire that other person.

Joshua Maddux:

You're trying to.

Joshua Maddux:

Because they're the actual one and you're the imposter.

Joshua Maddux:

So I think there's, for me personally, like that was an element that I had

Joshua Maddux:

to realize with my business of no, we're not going to, be the imposter

Joshua Maddux:

of this other business because we're just being a crappier version really.

Joshua Maddux:

And that's not going to be great for anything.

Joshua Maddux:

Yeah, we need to be our own and be okay with that.

Joshua Maddux:

So what does that look like?

Joshua Maddux:

Obviously there's a whole process to really overcoming this from

Joshua Maddux:

a business perspective, but what is, what does that look like?

Joshua Maddux:

Maybe going back to the, it consulting firm or, something in

Joshua Maddux:

that realm, what did that look like of, working through that or over.

Kris Kelso:

Dealing with imposter syndrome and overcoming imposter syndrome.

Kris Kelso:

The, as I mentioned that the awareness of it is the first big step, and

Kris Kelso:

it really does get you halfway because suddenly that persistent

Kris Kelso:

fear you recognize is a mind game.

Kris Kelso:

And now you can start to play the game.

Kris Kelso:

You can start to figure out the moves to counteract it.

Kris Kelso:

And so when I talk to people about imposter syndrome, just

Kris Kelso:

learning about it often is a huge relief but that's not enough.

Kris Kelso:

Just being aware.

Kris Kelso:

Now you have to start to.

Kris Kelso:

Understand the tactics and to make the right moves.

Kris Kelso:

And so there are two main fears that come along with imposter

Kris Kelso:

syndrome, or really there are the underpinnings of imposter syndrome.

Kris Kelso:

And the first is the fear of failure.

Kris Kelso:

And more specifically the fear of failure in public and the fear of failure

Kris Kelso:

in public, that's gonna destroy you.

Kris Kelso:

That's going to be your undoing, right?

Kris Kelso:

So when you struggle with imposter syndrome, when you feel like maybe I'm

Kris Kelso:

not legitimate, or I'm not what everyone thinks that I am, you worry that any

Kris Kelso:

mistake you make or any admission of a fault is going to erode your credibility

Kris Kelso:

is going to be your undoing and.

Kris Kelso:

So the temptation then is to try to cover up for any mistakes that you make

Kris Kelso:

to try to play it safe and not take risks, which of course business is full

Kris Kelso:

of risk-taking there's risk reward.

Kris Kelso:

And you have to be able to take risks and you have to be able to

Kris Kelso:

make bets when you're not certain of what the outcome is going to be.

Kris Kelso:

But that fear of failure will prevent you from doing that.

Kris Kelso:

And you stay in, in what I call the tour guide zone, where you just make

Kris Kelso:

the same loop over and over again, you stick to where you're comfortable.

Kris Kelso:

You.

Kris Kelso:

You only go where there's a clearly laid out path and a script and

Kris Kelso:

a plan, and you're not willing to cross those boundaries and

Kris Kelso:

get outside of your element.

Kris Kelso:

But if you can change your mindset about failure and you can begin

Kris Kelso:

to see failure as learning.

Kris Kelso:

Then suddenly failure is not something to be avoided.

Kris Kelso:

Failure is something to lean into to embrace.

Kris Kelso:

Not that we want to fail, not that the goal is to fail, but

Kris Kelso:

recognizing that failure is part of the process of success, because

Kris Kelso:

it's the primary way that we learn.

Kris Kelso:

One example and I've got dozens of examples in the book.

Kris Kelso:

One example is a guy named babe Ruth.

Kris Kelso:

You probably heard of babe Ruth.

Kris Kelso:

He was the, one of the greatest baseball players of all time.

Kris Kelso:

And he was known as the Sultan of SWAT because his he held the record for

Kris Kelso:

home runs and slugging percentage and RBI's and a bunch of other records.

Kris Kelso:

Some of, many of them still stand today, years after he's

Kris Kelso:

gone, but he also had a nickname.

Kris Kelso:

That was the king of strikeouts and his record, his career total of 1,330

Kris Kelso:

strikeouts was a major league baseball record for 30 years until it was

Kris Kelso:

beaten by a guy named Mickey mantle.

Kris Kelso:

So Mickey mantle took the strikeout record away from babe Ruth.

Kris Kelso:

And these are guys that we think of as great athletes, incredible

Kris Kelso:

players hall of Famers, but they knew they understand that.

Kris Kelso:

Striking out that failing at the plate was not something to be avoided.

Kris Kelso:

It was part of the process.

Kris Kelso:

You have to take big swings to hit the ball out of the park, and you're going to

Kris Kelso:

take some risks and you're going to miss some, but I guarantee you, every time they

Kris Kelso:

struck out, they were learning something, they were learning about the pitcher.

Kris Kelso:

They were learning about his tendencies.

Kris Kelso:

They were learning about how that ball was going to come across the plate.

Kris Kelso:

And they were applying that to the next at bat.

Kris Kelso:

Just understanding that failure is not fatal, that there's no failure.

Kris Kelso:

That's going to be the end of your career, the end of your

Kris Kelso:

life, the end of your work.

Kris Kelso:

That failure is a learning process that change in mindset.

Kris Kelso:

When I approach a new situation, now I look at it and say, one of

Kris Kelso:

two outcomes is going to happen.

Kris Kelso:

I'm either going to succeed or I'm going to learn.

Kris Kelso:

Those are the two options.

Kris Kelso:

And as long as I do one of those things, I'm going to get something

Kris Kelso:

great out of this experience.

Kris Kelso:

So don't have to be afraid of that uncertainty.

Kris Kelso:

So that's the first big mindset shift that you've got to adopt to, to

Kris Kelso:

start to overcome imposter syndrome.

Kris Kelso:

The second one is a similar mindset shift about vulnerability.

Kris Kelso:

See imposter syndrome.

Kris Kelso:

Fear of being vulnerable.

Kris Kelso:

It's the fear of opening up.

Kris Kelso:

It's the fear of letting people see who and what you really are.

Kris Kelso:

You mentioned the phrase, fake it till you make it.

Kris Kelso:

And I really disliked that phrase and that idea because there's inherent

Kris Kelso:

dishonesty there, but it also can, it actually will feed your imposter syndrome

Kris Kelso:

when you're portraying something of yourself that you know is not real.

Kris Kelso:

You will feel like.

Kris Kelso:

Because in some ways you are, if you're faking it until you make it.

Kris Kelso:

But instead you can have something that I refer to as humble confidence,

Kris Kelso:

where you recognize and are honest with your limitations and the boundaries of

Kris Kelso:

your knowledge and experience, but you also have the confidence to believe.

Kris Kelso:

You can figure it out.

Kris Kelso:

That learning is an important part of the process and that you're

Kris Kelso:

going to learn your way to success.

Kris Kelso:

You don't have to have every experience already behind you.

Kris Kelso:

One of the things that I realized as I was writing this book, I was

Kris Kelso:

doing a a deep dive on my career, looking backwards at the successes and

Kris Kelso:

failures and the lessons I've learned.

Kris Kelso:

And I suddenly realized.

Kris Kelso:

The times when I was the most insecure, when I was feeling the most in

Kris Kelso:

over my head, those were often the most pivotal moments of my career.

Kris Kelso:

Those are the times when you really great things were happening.

Kris Kelso:

And if I chose to pull back and to shirk away from those situations,

Kris Kelso:

I'd miss out on great opportunities.

Kris Kelso:

But when I leaned into those that's when really big moves.

Kris Kelso:

Happened.

Kris Kelso:

And so you've got to go into those experiences with a humility to not think

Kris Kelso:

that you can just fake it till you make it or that you can do anything at any time,

Kris Kelso:

but also with the confidence to believe that, everything I've ever accomplished

Kris Kelso:

in life every first time accomplishment I've ever had has been proceeded by the

Kris Kelso:

same thing, which is a lack of experience.

Kris Kelso:

Every time you do something great.

Kris Kelso:

You've, hadn't done it before that, and you didn't have the experience

Kris Kelso:

until you leaned in and did it.

Kris Kelso:

And so that humble confidence and changing the definition of failure,

Kris Kelso:

and then being willing to be open about where I have strengths and

Kris Kelso:

weaknesses, where I have experiences.

Kris Kelso:

And I have some lack of experience.

Kris Kelso:

The combination of those things will allow you to go into these new

Kris Kelso:

situations or to take on new clients with a humble confidence that.

Kris Kelso:

Sure.

Kris Kelso:

I may not have done this specific thing that you're asking me to do before, but

Kris Kelso:

look at all the other things I've done for the first time before, and I've

Kris Kelso:

been able to be successful at that.

Kris Kelso:

And I'm confident that I can take this on, or I can hire the right

Kris Kelso:

people with the expertise that's needed to do this job, by the way.

Kris Kelso:

That was one of the secrets to my success in my consulting firm is

Kris Kelso:

for the first, probably six or seven years of that company, I was the

Kris Kelso:

youngest and least educated and least experienced person in that company.

Kris Kelso:

I always hired upgrade.

Kris Kelso:

For myself.

Kris Kelso:

And that gave me the ability to go into a situation and say, I

Kris Kelso:

may not be the expert on this, but I do have an expert on my team.

Kris Kelso:

And if I don't, I'll get one.

Kris Kelso:

And so I'm not faking it till I make it.

Kris Kelso:

I'm saying very openly.

Kris Kelso:

And honestly, this is what we are capable of.

Kris Kelso:

And I believe in the quality and the capabilities of the team

Kris Kelso:

that I've assembled around me.

Kris Kelso:

And that helps me to have that humble conflict.

Joshua Maddux:

That's really good.

Joshua Maddux:

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux:

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux:

Hiring cure weaknesses is always something that yes, benefits,

Joshua Maddux:

benefits companies dramatically.

Joshua Maddux:

And when I see a business owner, that's trying to run every department in

Joshua Maddux:

their company, or they're trying to do be the point person for everything.

Joshua Maddux:

It just, it's not the best scenario.

Joshua Maddux:

I know when it comes to the aspect of fail, in the startup space, there's this

Joshua Maddux:

aspect of failing often failing fast.

Joshua Maddux:

Yes.

Joshua Maddux:

And it's, it goes back into exactly what you just talked about with, the baseball

Joshua Maddux:

analogy aspect, for a venture capitalist.

Joshua Maddux:

If they look at one startup and say, oh, this looks like a great idea.

Joshua Maddux:

I'll just dump a hundred million dollars into it.

Joshua Maddux:

And that's all they dump money into.

Joshua Maddux:

They're in trouble.

Joshua Maddux:

If they find, 10 different startups to dump money into,

Joshua Maddux:

one of them will be the next.

Joshua Maddux:

Uber or, whatever that service is now three or four of them are going

Joshua Maddux:

to just crash and burn immediately.

Joshua Maddux:

But for that venture capitalists, they need to get out quick.

Joshua Maddux:

They need to make sure they test it.

Joshua Maddux:

And if it doesn't work, shut it down or pivot.

Joshua Maddux:

And so I think that's something, for me is cool.

Joshua Maddux:

It did work.

Joshua Maddux:

It didn't.

Joshua Maddux:

Let's learn from it.

Joshua Maddux:

And that's, it's been the aspect of what can you take away from that failure?

Joshua Maddux:

And that's where when failure is looked at as a learning experience, I

Joshua Maddux:

think that's another critical element.

Joshua Maddux:

Like you can take so much away I've accidentally

Joshua Maddux:

underquoted projects before, or.

Joshua Maddux:

Yeah, we under quote a project because we didn't fully understand it.

Joshua Maddux:

Or we assumed that the client was going to do X, Y, and Z, and the

Joshua Maddux:

client assumed we were, and you get backwards in a project like that.

Joshua Maddux:

You obviously, it's a contractual obligation you follow through with that.

Joshua Maddux:

But then at the, yeah.

Joshua Maddux:

Back end.

Joshua Maddux:

It's what did we learn?

Joshua Maddux:

We learned that we need to better describe our process or better describe the

Joshua Maddux:

expectations that we have as a business on what the client is or isn't providing.

Joshua Maddux:

And all of those elements will really help not only the failing aspect,

Joshua Maddux:

but also, you continue to learn and the more you learn, the less,

Joshua Maddux:

you feel like you're an imposter.

Kris Kelso:

Yeah, those mistakes are part of the cost of education.

Kris Kelso:

And I've made some six-figure mistakes in my career, but I call those,

Kris Kelso:

six-figure educations and I've got a lot of them that have added up to

Kris Kelso:

success over a long period of time.

Kris Kelso:

But they're painful when they happen.

Kris Kelso:

But you've got to recognize that.

Kris Kelso:

That's part of the entrepreneurial experience is learning

Kris Kelso:

some of those lessons.

Kris Kelso:

And often the more painful ones, the more costly ones are the ones that really stick

Kris Kelso:

with you and benefit you in the long run, because you don't forget those lessons

Kris Kelso:

as easily when they cost you something.

Joshua Maddux:

Yeah.

Joshua Maddux:

So true.

Joshua Maddux:

Awesome.

Joshua Maddux:

I really love the takeaways.

Joshua Maddux:

The, the changing the definition of failure, I think is a huge one.

Joshua Maddux:

Just like really.

Joshua Maddux:

Having that shift.

Joshua Maddux:

And then the vulnerability aspect, you have to be open to overcome the imposter

Joshua Maddux:

syndrome and the humble confidence being aware of your limitations but

Joshua Maddux:

know that you can grow and learn.

Joshua Maddux:

And I think that's so critical, like for my team, I say this,

Joshua Maddux:

probably once a quarter, at least like the day that we stop learning.

Joshua Maddux:

I own a digital agency.

Joshua Maddux:

We're in the web space.

Joshua Maddux:

That web changes daily.

Joshua Maddux:

The day we stop learning is the day we should close the business because

Kris Kelso:

it's changed while we've been having this conversation.

Joshua Maddux:

Exactly.

Joshua Maddux:

And the web has changed and how people connect online has

Joshua Maddux:

changed so much, due to events.

Joshua Maddux:

The pandemic or the.com boom, or, there's so many different elements that

Joshua Maddux:

has changed, how global communications and all that type of stuff works.

Joshua Maddux:

And that goes for every line of business, you look at disruptors in

Joshua Maddux:

industries and all that type of stuff.

Joshua Maddux:

And being open to learning and growing and adapting and doing that, is always

Joshua Maddux:

something that's really good weather, it's imposter syndrome and not like just

Joshua Maddux:

learning and growing is always a positive.

Joshua Maddux:

There's been a ton that we walked through today and unpacked, and I feel

Joshua Maddux:

like there's probably a dozen more stories that you could share on this.

Joshua Maddux:

And there's so much more information, but I do want to walk through real

Joshua Maddux:

quick, like where is a good spot for people to find you online?

Joshua Maddux:

What is the best sort of number one, I'll have all the links to your

Joshua Maddux:

website, Instagram and LinkedIn, all that stuff in the show notes,

Joshua Maddux:

but what is that number one?

Kris Kelso:

Yeah, the number one spot is probably my website, which

Kris Kelso:

is just simply Chris kelso.com.

Kris Kelso:

And I'm easy to find online if you remember that Chris starts with a

Kris Kelso:

K

Kris Kelso:

K R I S K E L.

Kris Kelso:

So,

Kris Kelso:

So yeah, Chris kelso.com there's information there on my coaching work

Kris Kelso:

and some of the keynotes that I deliver.

Kris Kelso:

And also the book is called overcoming the imposter.

Kris Kelso:

And the website for the book is overcoming the imposter.com and it's

Kris Kelso:

available anywhere that books are sold.

Kris Kelso:

So you can find out more about the book there and more about

Kris Kelso:

my specific work at my website.

Kris Kelso:

And I'm also active on LinkedIn and many of the other social sites

Kris Kelso:

that you mentioned and as you said, those will be in the show notes.

Joshua Maddux:

Awesome.

Joshua Maddux:

And then I know you had messaged me a link for overcoming the imposter.com.

Joshua Maddux:

That actually has a free chapter of the book.

Joshua Maddux:

And we were going to put that in the show notes as well.

Joshua Maddux:

So for those who are listening there's a chapter of that in the show notes that

Joshua Maddux:

you'll be able to download and be able to read through that and get a little

Joshua Maddux:

sample, a little more in depth sample.

Joshua Maddux:

On that as well.

Kris Kelso:

And I'll say, I think the chapter that we chose to give away as a

Kris Kelso:

free sample is one of the best chapters.

Kris Kelso:

So you're not getting just a teaser.

Kris Kelso:

That's, the first chapter in the book that all it does is set up the problem

Kris Kelso:

and tell you that you need help.

Kris Kelso:

But it's a really meaty chapter that we'll have some great, powerful takeaways.

Kris Kelso:

So encourage people to go.

Kris Kelso:

Even if you can't pick up the entire book, go get that chapter and read through it.

Kris Kelso:

You'll get a lot out of it.

Joshua Maddux:

Cool.

Joshua Maddux:

It's been awesome having you on the show today.

Joshua Maddux:

I appreciate you coming on, I appreciate the time and your experience in

Joshua Maddux:

business and really opening up on that and just diving into that with us.

Joshua Maddux:

It's been really good to hear this and walk through it.

Kris Kelso:

Yeah.

Kris Kelso:

Thank you, Josh.

Kris Kelso:

I really enjoyed the conversation.

Kris Kelso:

I appreciate the opportunity.

Joshua Maddux:

Awesome.

Joshua Maddux:

Take care.

Kris Kelso:

You too.

Joshua Maddux:

Thanks for listening to this episode of, in the bunker.

Joshua Maddux:

As always we can be found on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter

Joshua Maddux:

at, in the bunker podcast.

Joshua Maddux:

Be sure to share this episode and what you're going to apply from it.

Joshua Maddux:

And how that can affect your business, make sure to tag us in that post so

Joshua Maddux:

we can highlight your journey as well.

Joshua Maddux:

But before you go.

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