Shownotes
BIO: Pritesh Ruparel is the CEO of ALT21, a leading tech company in hedging and currency solutions.
STORY: Pritesh found a good trade and invested 100% in it. His manager later advised him to liquidate that position because it was too concentrated. A day after Pritesh liquidated, a natural disaster occurred, and the spread went from $10 to $250 in an hour.
LEARNING: Put yourself in a position to get lucky. Never decide against your gut. Stay grounded between the highs and the lows.
“The worst thing you can do is to trade on something or to make a decision that you don’t 100% agree with.”
Pritesh Ruparel
Guest profile
Pritesh Ruparel is the CEO of ALT21, a leading tech company in hedging and currency solutions. With two decades of expertise in financial derivatives and structured finance, he leverages technology to make financial products accessible and affordable, aiming to save small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) millions annually on international transactions.
Worst investment ever
Pritesh’s first trading role was as a market maker in commodity relatives. One summer, he put a ton of analysis into a particular commodity spread trade. Pritesh thought the risk-to-reward looked good, but the trade was not doing anything. Nobody was marking the trade. Pritesh thought this was insane, so he went all in. He had the biggest position possible in that trade and it was 100% of his portfolio.
A manager advised Pritesh to liquidate the position because it was too concentrated. A day after Pritesh liquidated, a natural disaster occurred. The position benefited from this disaster and went from $10 to $250 in an hour. Unfortunately, Pritesh could have earned so much if only he had not liquidated.
Lessons learned
- Put yourself in a position to get lucky.
- When you start any role, listen, learn as much as possible, and take advice.
- Never decide against your gut.
- Never make a decision that you don’t agree with 100%.
Actionable advice
Stay grounded between the highs and the lows. Ultimately, you’ll be fine if you make decisions that align with what you believe in. This can give you a sense of confidence and conviction in your decisions.
Pritesh’s recommendations
Pritesh recommends building systems, processes, or resources that suit your risk appetite, emotional intelligence, and patience. This can enhance your decision-making and risk management, as it aligns with your personal attributes.
No.1 goal for the next 12 months
Pritesh’s number one goal for the next 12 months is to have repeatable, scalable processes for his go-to-market and use that to make an impact globally.
Parting words
“Remember, it’s a marathon, not a sprint.”
Pritesh Ruparel
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Connect with Pritesh Ruparel
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Transcripts
Andrew Stotz:
Music. Hello, fellow risk takers, and welcome to my worst investment ever, stories of loss. To keep you winning in our community, we know that to win in investing, you must take risk, but to win big, you've got to reduce it. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives, and I want to thank my listeners and viewers in London today for joining in that mission, fellow risk takers, this is your worst podcast host, Andrew Stotz from a Stotz Academy, and I'm here with featured guest, Pritt Rupert. Are you ready to join the mission?
Pritesh Ruparel:
I am ready to rob, let's have some fun.
Andrew Stotz:
I brought up my announcer voice for you.
Pritesh Ruparel:
Yeah, I noticed the change is pretty good, actually, if I ever launch a Ultimate Fighting champion,
Andrew Stotz:
yes, if you need, if you or any of the viewers and listeners need a bio, I will read that for you so well. Speaking of reading bios, what a great opportunity. So let me introduce you to the audience. Pritt is the CEO of alt 21 a leading technology company in hedging and currency solutions with two decades of expertise in financial derivatives and structured finance, he leverages technology to make financial products accessible and affordable, aiming to save small and medium sized enterprises millions annually on international transactions. Take a minute and tell us about the unique value you are bringing to this wonderful world.
Pritesh Ruparel:
Thanks, Andrew for the very kind intro. Anyway, so as you said, I started my career as a commodity and derivatives trader, and like all good risk takers, you navigate and hone your skills with some challenging markets. You build a bit of a skill for making decisions with incomplete info, and obviously under loads of pressure, you definitely know that that kind of role, you're the least smarts person at the end of the computer. And you're you build a bit of a skill for spotting patterns or trends before much smarter the people than you are doing in many places around the world, but it's a good I guess, learning ground for any business career and transitioning into a role of CEO of a scale up. I mean, I never thought traders would be good, or traders or risk takers would be good scale up CEOs. I never saw the link. But my God, when you actually go through that transition, you realize the skills you bring are pretty unique, because you never really see lots of high profile scale up CEOs that come from trading. I haven't, never saw the link, but those skills are pretty much what you need to do any kind of business or grow any kind of scale up. So yeah, I'm hoping that's a bit of uniqueness that I'm bringing to the world
Andrew Stotz:
that's great. Yeah. I mean, in the world of finance, like, I was a sell side analyst for 20 years, and I had a research and all of that, and, yeah, I had specific skills that really worked in that area. One was my presentations, and one was, you know, my thinking process, a lot of deep dives and stuff, but I had a lot of traders and sales traders that I work with that they were doing stuff that, you know, I was far beyond what I understood. And also it just, it didn't fit my personality. I think a lot of things I've learned these days is that it's all about DNA and kind of fitting your DNA. And so yeah, we all end up in our spots, and that brings our uniqueness. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about what you're doing, so that the average listener out there could understand it.
Pritesh Ruparel:
Currently at all 21 you mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're so what my early part of my career is as a derivative trader, and then went on later to build kind of an engine room for a lot of fintechs within FX, hedging in payments now, working closely with lots of different exciting clients, from some of the world's biggest high frequency hedge funds to these scale up businesses, gave me a bit of a unique insight into the microstructure markets, like how it actually works all the way down from trade execution through to processing, and you then start to connect the two together. So we basically bought the technology from the high frequency trading world to a client facing environment, and use that to really drive down the costs of the transaction and then pass that back on to consumers. And everybody understood why this big, bloated banks had all the customers, and I get now why they do. I mean, there's a trust of a brand and everything like that that we won't have like we're this scrappy young fintech. Who might be 10 times cheaper, 100 times cheaper, but we trust this brand. So kind of, for us, we're that platform that's now trying to build trust, trying to build trust without kind of blowing loads of money on marketing, which means you genuinely have to make a difference, and you have to, you know, a lot of our business, 90% is through referrals. So customers have to refer other customers, and that is a interesting journey to go through. So yeah, that's what we're doing, hopefully making an impact to a lot businesses. I think you know company goal is to save 100 million for businesses globally in three years, which is a nice way of looking at things. It's not, let's make 100 million. It's, let's save the client 100 million. So yeah,
Andrew Stotz:
and what's the typical use case, like where a client, a new client, maybe not, not a big one, but let's say a small or getting approached medium sized. What is it that they come to you for? And what do they get?
Pritesh Ruparel:
Yeah, so really, really good question. I mean, for most people, FX, or cross border transactions or edging is the most boring thing on a list full of stuff that you'd rather do. I'm a scale up selling software. I'm in a team full of a My goal is to sell more software so I can get more engineers, more sales people. FX is an afterthought, right? Like it's not so often they don't know it's a problem until it's a problem. So you're like, a SaaS founder. I sat down for dinner with one recently, and it's a really funny story. I think she told me she got to a million dollars in revenue. And I was like, Cool. You know, team of eight, she goes. That means I can now go up to 13 engineers from eight and, like, this is the next stage. And I said it's really funny, because we're sitting in London, did you say dollars? She's like, Yeah. I'm like, how did you choose to price in dollars? She's like, it's cool, because everyone priced in dollars. I was like, okay, like, literally, that was it, if I'm being honest, why did you choose to price in dollars? Because it's cool. How do you do it? She's like, I'll just do it with my bank. I said, just show me the last statement from your bank. And she we just looked at it quickly. I was like, they're charging you 4% which means of that million dollars, 40 grand has gone out to the bank who probably doesn't need it. Literally converting these trends. And she literally nearly, I mean, my wife had a massive go at me. She was saying he was pregnant. She said he shouldn't have said that to her. You really put but that's an extra bum on the seat, right? And for me, that's the reason I do this. And the reason why the whole team sits here doing this is because this is stuff that's going on every day. People just don't know. So either we come to them and say, do you know you're paying this? Or they come to us when there's a problem and they say, we're doing this. And also, I mean, most people don't know there's a platform out there. Like most big brands in FX cross border are B to C, there's been, like, no real killer brand in a non bank space, in our view, in the B to B space like a proper FinTech platform, not one that's like a little bit of front end and then there's just hundreds of humans underneath it calling you. We're a proper FinTech platform where you can just do stuff for yourself. We can embed lots of cool stuff and save money, ultimately, which, whilst hedging and FX is boring, saving money, to me, isn't.
Andrew Stotz:
So what are the mechanics of that? I mean, I can see definitely that there's a market. There an opportunity. Because, you know, the bank fees are the last thing that you, you know, pay attention to. You pay attention to the revenue coming in. Or let's say I have a Thai company, and we earn money in Thai baht, and then we buy equipment in Italy, in from a a machine supplier that's supplying espresso machines, and they're not cheap, and we have to put, you know, a lot down and get that, you know, to Bangkok, and it takes three weeks, I'm sorry, three months from when we order to when we've got it ready and available for sale. So, you know, we use the banks a lot for that, but I can imagine that there's, you know, fees that we don't even realize, you know, the extent to them. But for a company like that, what would they do, or how would we use your type of service?
Pritesh Ruparel:
Yeah, so, I mean, that's exactly the kind of use case like, so you just nailed it really. You would log into our platform, you'd on board. We don't onboard in 20 seconds, because we believe that feedback from a lot of FinTech platforms is that the worst thing they get is a big FinTech platform on boards them in 20 seconds, and then when they go to make payment for that coffee machine, you've been waiting for three months for the platform's going. Wait, who's this again and stopped, gets delayed, and now three months turns into four months, and you're speaking to a robo advisor who just keeps kicking you around. So we onboard you in a day, let's say, but we won't keep onboarding you and checking who you are every three so after that, whenever there's an important payment to make, so onboard online. You can get education materials online. So if you want to know how to even protect yourself, you get a simple platform that gives you access. We show you how much money we make. So like, we're the first platform to actually sit there and say, we make three basis points or four basis points on this trade. And people go, what's a basis point? And we show you in money terms. So it's there to empower you with the knowledge. And it's really simple. You can set up your currency management. You can then pay your supplier in Europe or within one space. You can send the information downstream to your accounting package. Just we're there to make life easy and ideally, you know, improve access, reduce the costs, and talk simply like a human. Most business people so
Andrew Stotz:
and what's, what's, what's the mechanics of it. For instance, once you got an account, I've got, let's say I've got, you know, $300,000 that I need to get to our supplier in Italy, I instruct my Thai bank to transfer money. Where? How do I do that? Yeah,
Pritesh Ruparel:
so you, you, when you open an account, you'll get, say, 35 multi currency virtual ibands immediately. So now you've got local you've got virtual ibands In your name with local accounts available in, say, Europe or the UK. So you've now got access to local payment rails, so you can send money from your Thai bank into your dollar account, do the conversion, and then pay out European supplier instantly. All online, all straightforward. Behind that, though, is an ultra complex technology and regulatory framework that we've put together so we don't white label other bits of technology. We obsess over tech. We've looked at the entire tech stack that's out there, and like, this isn't come from like, having a little look and going right, this is going to work. We've got people who have serious domain of expertise here, who have worked out that to build an ultra low touch, high frequency trading firm mentality infrastructure, you have to build it. So we've invested heavily in the technology underneath it. We've got regulatory licenses overlaying that, and that enables us to deliver a really simple user experience. So the panics of it might be complex. That's our problem still, if the front end user experience is supposed to be as simple and beautiful as possible, really,
Andrew Stotz:
and just so I get this clear. So are you? Are you? You're not a bank, but you're regulated to manage the movement of money. And are you partnering with banks at all, like to store that money, or you basically only transit that money?
Pritesh Ruparel:
Yeah. I mean, this is the, this is the thing I always find funny. So like, every FinTech ultimately touches a bank, unless you're in, like, digital asset world, in touching a bank, even then you're probably touching a bank. So we we have the regulatory licenses to carry out the activities that we do, but ultimately, client money sits in safeguarded accounts, or client accounts in tier one banks that remain outside of our holding which is interesting, because it's often a bit of a misnomer, that people's money is safe with a bank versus a FinTech, or is actually, all the money you put with us is in a safeguarded account. All the money you put the bank is in the UK, for example, protected up to a certain amount. And then, what
Andrew Stotz:
is a safeguarded account? What does that mean? You've got insurance on it, or something, or no,
Pritesh Ruparel:
basically, like the there's a it's like a trust account, so that money can't be touched by all 21 every day it gets reconciled back to a client. We get audits on it annually. So we have to present those audits to the regulator. We have to any point, identify client money and differentiate that from an all 21 kind of funds, okay, underlying the actual transaction. Now we don't market make or take risk against client and reality FX is so sophisticated on the institutional side that there's no edge for us in really doing that like JP Morgan, Goldman's, all the banks are all far better at doing that than a small FinTech would be. So underlying our infrastructure is a network of banks. So that's banks acting as payment providers, banks acting as FX providers. And we use those banks to put together the sharpest price we can and then pass that on to customers. And
Andrew Stotz:
so from my perspective, let's say I'm transferring, let's just say $300,000 worth of bought into an account that needs to be converted to dollars. Is it being converted? Am I sending it in bot turns and it's being converted through you guys? Or are the banks getting a conversion there into the dollar?
Pritesh Ruparel:
Yeah, you wouldn't have the bank taking their piece. You just send it in the. Currency that you want to sell, and we would give you the currency you want to buy back, for example, and we try and keep it that way, so that there's no extra spreads along the way.
Andrew Stotz:
Fascinating. It's like it's you're taking away a juicy opportunity for the banks that they're getting in every transaction by basically it, I it feels like it's like a detour around, you know, let's say we normally have a direct way that we go to our supplier, but that direct way is extremely expensive, and here we have a little Come on this way, and you can do these transactions at a much lower rate. And also you're separating the currency transaction from the movement of money. Whereas, with a bank, you know, every movement of money is connected with a currency transaction, and you can't get away from that. But here you're separating that out, am I? Am I correct in saying that?
Pritesh Ruparel:
Yeah, you but we do handle both. We handle the conversion and the movement of money, but we're separating it from a single transaction that's locked in a single bank channel. So you're not stuck to one bank's price on x, and then you're not stuck to their payment capabilities. We try and bring together the best of banks, the best of the banks FX capabilities, and the best of rarest banks payment capacities, so that we find the most optimal route to get your money to where it needs to go.
Andrew Stotz:
Yeah, I guess the way I'm thinking, Maybe I should have said it like the banks bundle these two things, and the benefit of the bundling is that it's less transparent. And the less transparent it is, you know, unless you really push to understand it, then the more that they can charge. And you basically make it a transparent transaction on unbundled and separate and you make money off of that, but that amount of money that you make is nothing compared to what the banks are charging.
Pritesh Ruparel:
Yeah, and got to be always dislike it when FinTech spent a lot of time just bashing banks. The reality is they have a business. Have a big head count, and that's just the oil ship that it is. You can't turn that around in 60 days, you know. And suddenly do a 360 and suddenly you're sorry, 180 going in another fresh or suddenly. So we've built this because we had a green field to build from, and that enables us to do cool things. So we see banks as partners. We're helping them increase volume. And actually one thing that's happened more recently is we're starting to license our technology to banks. So part of our mission is to make an impact to the small business. And with 90% of these businesses still just working with banks, we feel that, you know, we're going to still try and kind of work and offer something. But there's also a value add in licensing our technology to scale the business significantly. So that's the new business line that's been developing. I mean, it's challenging, because selling technology into banks takes longer, but fortunately, we have an order book that's probably full at the moment, if not. You know, we kind of try to build around that, really, and pick the banks that we can make the most difference to. So
Andrew Stotz:
And my last question on this, because I find it fascinating what you're doing. My listeners out there are in the following order, us, Thailand, Australia, India, let's just take those countries as the first kind of line. Is there any restrictions or problems with any of those listeners out there that it doesn't work so well in developing market like India or Thailand, or is it works the same everywhere?
Pritesh Ruparel:
Well, it's interesting. So every jurisdiction will have its own nuances, right? Whether that's regulations, whether that's cultural habits, whether that's like just language or something like that, that you know things so we're trying to solve for different regions. I mean, we cover the majority of markets where FX is moving. I think there's like 180 in the broader we're at 35 but the volume of the 35 is a big skew. We're expanding capabilities into some of those regions, and we're also exploring new technology that's being used and preparing for big changes there as well. So like the emerging markets have opened up massively and I don't think that trend is going to necessarily stop in terms of their growth and their participation at a global level. So where there are challenges, I would definitely say listeners should continue to watch what we do, because we are trying to remain at the sharp end of innovation here. So you'll probably see us being one of the companies that's willing to do things properly, and that's an important part. A lot of FinTech just want to do it and ask break, do an ask of forgiveness later. It does work, and it's proven really well for some companies. What we're trying to do is, okay, understand, prepare. Air and then just be ready for it to do it properly, because trust is the biggest thing. So when you trust to be around for the long run, we think you win in the long run, right? But, you know, and it's you have to pick a path that works for you. So culturally, we as a firm are set up to do things properly. The harder things. First, swallow a whale, you know, get all that done up front, but then scale quickly. Well,
Andrew Stotz:
exciting. I have a lot more questions I would ask, but we got to move on to my worst investment ever, and now it's time to share that. And since no one goes into their worst investment thinking it will be, tell us about the circumstances leading up to it, then tell us your
Pritesh Ruparel:
story. Yeah. So this is, this is really interesting. So my first trading role was as a market maker in commodity relatives. So I joined as a kind of junior on a desk of 12. And then, for some reason, rather over two or three years, it became just me by the end of it, and I was sitting there alone in a glass box for about nine months. And I think it was a dead of July. And you know, when you're sitting alone in a you can just imagine that there's a trading floor and a business, and then there's this glass box of market makers in the middle. And I think everyone outside was having bets on when I pack it in, but I got some resilience in me. That's one summer, I put a ton of analysis into a particular commodity spread trade, and I just thought the market was wrong, right? So you just have that moment. You're like, I don't know it's like a mini Big Short. Remember the film, Big Short, the story, The Big Short. And everyone's kind of thinking one thing, and you're going, what's going on here? And generally, as a market maker, you're trained to run a diversified book and blah, blah, blah, but maybe it was quiet, and I basically just went all in on one thing. I thought the risk to reward looked good, and I'm sitting there, this trade just isn't doing anything. Much like, mostly, I never thought about the big, short parallel, but much like when Michael blurry, so they're like, sick name, nothing's happening, and nobody's marking the trade or whatever, and he's going but this is insane. And then the worst decision I made was to go on holiday. So I was like, right, I'm going to go away with nobody with
Andrew Stotz:
the position open.
Pritesh Ruparel:
Well, that was my thinking. And then my one manager that they put me to report into because there was nobody else. He said, I think you should liquidate that position. It's 100% of your portfolio. I think before you need to go where you've been on your own in that glass box. He said, even with stop losses, I just think you should come back with a clear mind. It's unlikely to go all in on one position. Did it? So I listened, and that was the worst decision I'd made, because a day after I liquidated, there was a natural disaster in a port where this position would have benefited. Like, it's not like I planned for that or anything, but my God, I think that was like the spread went from a range of like, zero to 10 to 250 in an hour. And like, would have been the life changing trade that you put on. And I think I had the biggest position that I could have had possible, and I just thought that that was the worst investment in terms of just spending. So it's kind of an odd way to look at it. I could have probably made the life or the career changing trade for me at that moment, but I decided to go on holiday and listen. And that taught me a that taught me a lot. I mean, my first boss always said you got to put yourself in a position to get lucky. So I think I did do that. But yeah, sometimes you learn a few lessons about listening to people. And
Andrew Stotz:
anyway, it's the hardest, you know, one when you think about the things that we miss. You know, particularly when we miss them close like you can, as I tell people who would say that they missed this or that I'm like, Well, I missed 747 stocks that went up yesterday by more than 10% you know how. But here is one that you did some work on it. And also, you know, sometimes when you do a lot of research, is something, you know, things tilt that way and, you know, and so it's, I can imagine that your holiday was a little bit frustrating.
Pritesh Ruparel:
Yeah, I think I had, like every broker I worked with, Colby, and say, have you seen the market? Because they just, they just been liquidating my position the day before. Mate, yes, sorry about that.
Andrew Stotz:
You appeared brilliant. It just didn't happen. Yeah, just
Pritesh Ruparel:
Yeah. But that like you learn lessons from those kind of things, right?
Andrew Stotz:
So let's think about it from a perspective of a new guy who's got, who has some experience like you had at the time, and he's sitting in that situation, what would you recommend that he do?
Pritesh Ruparel:
The main thing I'd say is, like you, when you start in this kind of, any kind of role, you should listen and learn as much as you can take advice the old. Ultimately, the one thing you should never do is make a decision against your gut, because the worst thing is to trade on something or to make a decision that you don't 100% really you, you yourself don't agree with and I think that comes from good decisions as well. Like the worst we used to judge traders, not by the outcome of by decision. So you make money from getting lucky. You're not going to be nobody's gonna be patting you on the back, but it's money. And you got unlucky, but you made good decisions. Everyone thinks that's okay. So, like, that was a big distinction I learned early on, and I think it keeps you grounded, right? So between the highs and the lows, just try and stay grounded. And ultimately, if you do make decisions from what you believe in and act eviction in, then if you follow those parameters, you'll be you'll be fine,
Andrew Stotz:
pretty bad. And if you listen to episode 601, you can hear Annie Duke talk about thinking in bets and how to make sure that you're not punishing people for bad outcomes when there were great processes, you know, that went into that. So I think that's, that's a great, great point, absolutely, um, I wonder what's a resource of you know that that that you either have of your own or any others that you'd recommend, from your own services to books or other things that, have you know, could bring value to our audience?
Pritesh Ruparel:
Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I think I've plugged in our own services enough. But the thing that is, I think important is to build systems or processes or resources that work for you. Like everyone has different levels of risk appetite, emotional intelligence, patience, and there's so much information out there to look at like there's some killer books we've all read this and killer resources we all follow. The one thing I found really interesting is to broaden my horizon to seeing people I wouldn't like. This is who I would focus on when I was in trading. Now, who I listen to comes from completely different angles, like and they have views on markets or investments that just blow my mind sometimes, where I'm like, we just weren't looking at it this way. So I'd say, try and find your own and you'll come across amazingly, people, different commentators that give you views on things that going on in the world, that just give you a different lens, right? So that's the main thing that I've
Andrew Stotz:
learned, that's great open up. I think I started in as a sell side analyst in 1993 and the amount of opinions that I could find, you know, were very scarce, you know, compared to now, there's so much out there. And so, yeah, it's, it's, you know, there's a lot you gotta sort through, but you find the people that you admire or respect, and there's a lot of great stuff you know, for free coming out. It's just amazing. Now, what's out there? Last question, what's your number one goal for the next 12 months?
Pritesh Ruparel:
Yes, it's interesting. As a fast growing FinTech, you build goals around what you're doing, and like, we've been fortunate in terms of customers, we have a good product and a good offering. We haven't really productized our go to market. So for us, it's like having repeatable, scalable processes for our go to market and using that to make it impact globally. So to the point I made earlier, you said, What do you use like for our systems and processes are key, and you can do that in like, your operations and your tech and whatever, but you go to market is quite important. So that, for me, is the big thing, and we're definitely working towards in the next 12 months.
Andrew Stotz:
Well, it's gonna I'm gonna want to learn more about this, and for the listeners and the viewers out there, I'm gonna have links in the show notes so that you can go and learn more about this. So I think it's fascinating, and so good luck on that. And maybe in 12 months, we'll check in and see how you're doing. All right, yeah. Well, listeners, there you have it. Another story of laws to keep you winning. Remember, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. As we conclude, I want to thank you again for joining this mission and and on behalf of a Stotz Academy, I hereby award you alumni status for turning your worst investment ever into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience?
Pritesh Ruparel:
Remember, it's a marathon, not a sprint.
Andrew Stotz:
There you go. There you go. And that's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and protect our wealth, fellow risk takers, let's celebrate that. Today, we added one more person to our mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. This is your worst podcast host, Andrew Stotz, saying, I'll see you on the upside.