In this podcast, Jared and Nathan discuss the newest piece of tax legislation that was passed into law earlier this year - One Big Beautiful Bill Act. They highlight the pieces of the bill that are most pertinent to oil and gas professionals, they also discuss which pieces of the bill are the most overrated.

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Welcome to Financial Planning for Oil and Gas Professionals, hosted by certified financial planners Justin Brownlee and Jared Machen of Brownlee Wealth Management, the only podcast dedicated to those of you in the oil and gas profession to help you optimize investments, lower future taxes, and grow your wealth.

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Management.Com welcome back to another episode of FPO&G Financial Planning for Oil and Gas Professionals.

The one big beautiful bill.

The name is a mouthful, even the acronym obbb.

So we'll just call it the New Big Bill.

Nathan, we're going to talk about important pieces of this legislation and how they relate specifically to oil and gas professionals.

We'll also talk about one piece of the bill that we think is overrated if we have time.

There's really lots in here, right?

Like it goes from R D credits to deductible loan interest on cars to QBI to there's just a lot in here.

So I think a good place to kind of frame this conversation would be to set the parameters of, hey, what are the most impactful pieces of legislation as it relates to oil and gas professionals?

But before I get into all that, Nathan, what do you think about this bill?

Just generally, broadly speaking?

Yeah, like you said, Jared, there's a lot in here.

And I would say that the place to start is really the fact that it's mostly a continuation of what has already been in place.

And so arguably the biggest piece of this legislation is to continue those forward and then obviously a ton of other things packed in there as well.

So looking forward to spending some time just highlighting some of the things that are most impactful to our listeners and see how they can learn about it.

Yeah, Nathan, I think, like that's the interesting thing about this podcast.

The first thing we're going to talk about has nothing to do with this, but really, like a lot of the biggest planning opportunity things are continuation of things that were set to sunset.

Now might be a nice time to revisit them if you haven't been thinking about them or incorporating them in your financial plan.

But this first one that we're going to talk about is actually this is not a sunset situation, a continuation of a sunset.

This is a new change to what was happening.

So salt deduction there used to be a cap on the salt deduction of 10k and that is increasing to 40k.

Nathan, break that down for us.

What is that?

What does it mean?

Great start.

So to really start the basics, the SALT deduction is state and local tax.

Many of our listeners will be most impacted by property taxes and state income taxes.

Obviously in Texas there is no state income tax.

So the vast majority of the impact for our Texas listeners is in the form of property tax.

And so for example, if you own a million dollar home in Harris county, you might owe around $17,000 in property taxes in one year.

And so under the previous legislation you would be capped at using only 10,000 of that if you itemized your deductions.

And so under the new big bill, that cap is obviously raised and we'll get into eligibility here shortly, but it is raised to 40.

And so in that example, you would be able to deduct $17,000 worth of property tax.

If you chose to bunch the property tax two years into one, you could.

Deduct a full 34,000.

So a lot of planning opportunities that listeners can consider in this, in this change.

And so the really the guts of it is that increase really increases the odds that listeners are going to be itemizing deductions.

And so one key thing to highlight is this one is not a permanent change.

But after that it is, it is scheduled to sunset back to $10,000.

So in the meantime plenty of opportunity for listeners to take advantage of some planning opportunities.

Yeah, And I would argue a high income person in a no state income tax state is like they have the most planning considerations related to this.

Right.

Because there's a segment of, you know, you really your itemized deduction.

So charitable giving, state and local taxes and mortgage interest, three probably the big ones, most, most people take advantage of with a standard deduction of $30,000.

Those numbers have to be more than 30,000 to impact your tax return.

If you're a low income taxpayer, you know, you're probably never going to get to that 30k number.

But if you're a high tax pay, high taxpayer in a high state income tax state, you'll probably always get itemized deduction Right.

But high income in a no state income tax state, it's really easy to have a natural deduction that's pretty at or near the standard deduction.

Right.

Like you said, if you own a million dollar house in Harris county that has about 17,000 in property taxes and you're paying another 10,000 of mortgage interest and you're gifting $3,000 a year, that's 30K.

Right.

So there's a lot of people that are probably at or near that amount.

So really there needs to be a lot of thought and care because you're, you're right, right on the cusp.

Right.

If, if you were itemizing every year, there's not really any planning opportunity.

If you're not itemizing every year and you're not even close, there's not really any planning opportunity.

But because you're right at the sweet spot of, you know, breaking the, breaking the threshold of this inner deduction, there's a lot of, a lot of kind of planning opportunities that can take place.

Yeah, absolutely.

And kind of gets to some of the eligibility standards of this deduction.

And so one of the big details of this is there is a phase out that begins at 500,000 in modified adjusted gross income.

And so then it's fully phased out once you get to 600,000.

So going back to the full 10,000.

So there's a big consideration you need to think through around the income that you're bringing in and how you could maybe plan around this opportunity.

There's a ton of different income cliffs that you need to be considerate of.

And so that's something that we would definitely recommend taking a look at.

Yeah.

And because this is a temporary thing.

Right.

It also kind of creates some action.

You know, these are good years to accelerate charitable gifts.

Pick a couple of years to double up on property taxes.

Get really critical about thinking about, okay, how do I make the most of these big itemized deductions with an increased amount that can be deductible in terms of salt, I want to take advantage of it.

But Nathan, you touched on something like really important.

Right.

It's like, it's just so.

There's so much mental gymnastics to, to kind of think about.

It's, it's another set of, you know, tax thresholds to be aware of.

Right.

There's different phase outs and levels for irmaa, Medicare brackets for capital gains, for income taxes, for estate taxes.

And now for the phase out of the SALT deduction.

Right.

You're between this number of 500,000 to 600,000.

There's an awesome little resource somebody shared on LinkedIn that I'll link to.

But they kind of did the analysis kind of back of the envelope.

And you know, if you have $100,000 in additional inc, you were taking advantage of the full SALT deduction and you get phased out of that.

Your highest marginal tax bracket, exclusive of state income tax is, is now 45.5% because you're in the highest bracket of 39%.

Plus there's kind of some additional tax because you're giving back some of the deduction that you would have had.

SALT is, again, it's a big deal.

It's a short term thing and I would say it kind of creates a, creates some planning opportunities.

But because it's only three years, you need to kind of get critical of thinking about, okay, what, what is my deduction if I don't do anything and then what, what actions do I want to change to increase or, or decrease that over time to, to kind of take advantage of it?

Volatility is interesting because if, you know, you don't like things that go up or down, I think with deductions, you, you actually kind of like the idea of some volatility, right?

To use just a good mathematical example, if I have a $25,000 deduction every year, that's $75,000 of deductions cumulatively.

But again, I won't ever take, I won't ever take an itemized deduction because, you know, I have, the standard deduction is $30,000 a year.

So, you know, I had $75,000 of, of deductible things, but I never used them because it's the standard deduction every year.

Conversely, if I'm able to deduct 50,000 in one year and 12.5 thousand in the remaining two years, that 50,000 will result in a big itemized deduction, right?

Because 50 is greater than 30.

So it's all about kind of understanding how volatility, to my benefit, to create some years where I have a big itemized deduction.

So it, so all these things I'm doing, all these activities actually hit my tax return versus just kind of flying below the radar where I'm getting close to that threshold but never actually having it meaningfully contribute or marginally contribute.

You want to make sure you're being really strategic in these, these next handful of years to make sure you're maximizing your deductions through a combination of itemized and standard deductions in the, in the proper years based upon your situation, your income that you're experiencing.

And, and so definitely want to get tactical when it comes to that SALT deduction.

Yeah.

And again, like a lot of our listeners, final thing here is like a lot of our listeners are at or approaching retirement.

Right.

There's also, you know, some volatility in terms of my earnings if I'm at or near retirement.

So it could kind of create a perfect storm where.

Let's think about some big itemized deductions these next few years to take advantage of legislation and you being in the highest income tax rate that you will be.

Yeah, I think that's perfect.

Absolutely.

Want to take a look at that?

I think it's a good opportunity for us to hop over to the next item that we've kind of highlighted as a really impactful one for some of our listeners.

And so that is the permanently increased lifetime estate tax exemption.

For listeners that haven't already heard this, it's increasing from 13.99, call it 14 million to 15 million per person or 30 million filing jointly.

And again, it is permanent.

But, Jared, do you want to talk us through that change and some of the mechanics of that?

I think this is one of those pieces of legislation that's interesting because it doesn't feel like a big deal because it's a continuation of what was written in the law, but it was actually expected to sunset absent this piece of legislation back down to $5 million.

Right.

So really any amount over $5 million in the estate gifts or, you know, estate exemption.

So it's a combination of what you give via your estate at death and reportable gifts that you give throughout your lifetime.

Right.

Any amount over and above what would have been $5 million would be subject to estate tax, which quickly gets to a top bracket of 40%.

And so I think this is a really big deal because it preserves the largest estate exemption that we've ever had.

Right.

And it reduces it.

D. I would say it defangs the idea of, hey, this Use it or lose it.

Right.

One of the things I was scared of as a practitioner was that this piece of legislation was going to sunset and a bunch of people with, you know, an estate worth closer, you know, between 5 and $10 million was going to wake up and realize, oh, no, if I don't use my exemption this year, I'm going to lose it.

So there was going to be a mad dash and everybody was going to try to meet with an estate planning attorney.

But the problem is everybody waited to the last minute to meet with an estate planning attorney.

So just kind of a frenzy to hopefully have somebody complete and take advantage of these increased exemptions.

But because of that, I think we have a little more time to be defensive.

Right.

And again, a lot of the estate planning strategies of things to get assets out of your estate, naturally reduce control, right?

Because they're gifts, whether to persons or trusts, right.

So you, you lose some control over that.

Right?

So you have a little opportunity to retain control.

There's a little less urgency in terms of what do I need to do right this minute if I have $10 million in assets?

The answer is, hey, you don't need to do anything by year end to take advantage of the larger estate exemption.

But, you know, that doesn't mean you're all free and clear that you shouldn't be thinking about this on an annual basis and planning around it.

I think there's a big sigh of relief in the industry that people can kind of continue to plan very tactfully over the coming years.

And a lot of times clients that are in that five to $10 million range, it's a big deal to remove a big portion of their accounts and to gift those irrevocably.

And so definitely a welcome sight to see this permanently increase from a practitioner's standpoint.

Like you said, Jared, if you're in that bucket, like, you know, the bucket that I just described, and you have 5 to 10 million dollars in assets, like, you know, we'll say 10 million plus.

It was a flashing red light four months ago, right.

You have to do something where you're going to, you know, you have a substantial taxable estate now.

It's like a yellow light, right?

Like this doesn't mean that you shouldn't deal with this at all.

A lot of the projections we run for clients to show them, hey, if you continue on the course you are at, you don't just have to think about, where am I at today?

But how will assets continue to accumulate over decades if I remain invested in an underspend relative to what, what my portfolio income could produce, there's a trade off here.

I would say the urgency has gone down.

It's gone from red to yellow.

But, you know, still need to think about, hey, am I making chair?

Am I making gifts?

What are the, what are kind of the consequences of that?

Am I using my annual gift exclusion?

We want assets to appreciate, but if the, the earlier you give assets, that appreciation happens outside of your estate.

Right.

So these are strategies to consider.

Right.

You didn't need to overhaul to use your full exemption, which is great because it buys us time, but it hasn't removed the conversation of, hey, on an ongoing basis.

Where do I think, where do I think this is?

Where, how do I think my estate is, is accumulating and growing in the way that I want it to?

And are assets structured to kind of optimize around my estate tax?

And it is just interesting and worth mentioning that this is the largest, you know, estate exemption in history by a mile.

Right.

And it's even a million dollars larger than it was, you know, as early, as early as before this legislation was passed.

Compare that to 20 years ago.

The exemption was $2 million per person.

Right.

So this is really, you know, we're in a large estate exemption territory and yeah, could it go up?

Yes, but it could also go down.

Right.

And there could be legislation that passes five years from now that changes that.

Right.

Maybe the lesson here is, hey, let's get critical about our estate plan and also, you know, think through, hey, what do we want to do long term?

Because, you know, I know there would have been a mad dash to try to get your estate planning done had, had things kind of fallen off.

But hey, the estate exemption is really big.

So it's not a bad time to use, you know, use some gifts to, to get some assets outside of your estate.

I think you hit the nail on the head on one thing that I think of is it increased the lifetime exemption permanently.

But like you mentioned, it can always change.

Future legislation can definitely impact this.

And so it's never going to be a red flashing light again, but definitely gives us a bit more time to be really strategic with, with gifts.

And again, if you decide to use a portion of your exemption and for whatever reason, the estate, the estate exemption goes up.

Like, you know, you haven't lost the ability to participate in the increased estate exemption because you used it at an earlier amount.

Right.

Other than, you know, relinquishing control, which is definitely a con, you know, in terms of what Estate exemption is available to you.

Utilizing a portion or even all of it now doesn't preclude you from taking advantage of it in future years if it increases.

How about we move forward or any other thoughts on the exemption?

No, no, I'm good with that.

Yeah, that's, you know, that's the other thing.

It would have been a very interesting and different conversation had that been on the chopping block and gone back to what we thought it was going to.

Nathan, let's pivot to Trump accounts.

I'm excited to talk about this one because there's a lot that's unknown here.

So we're kind of pontificating about what the benefits are.

Like, we don't know about Roth conversions.

And you and I, before we're even recording, we're kind of debating the merits back and forth of, hey, how valuable or not valuable are Trump accounts with some of the other accounts out there.

But I would love for you to talk about just the high level, some of the most important mechanics before we get into why it might be impactful for oil and gas professionals.

Yeah, this is one that definitely perked my ears up.

I'm expecting a child later this year, and so that child would be eligible for a Trump account.

I'm definitely fascinated with this idea.

Going to reference the notes because there, like you said, Jared, there is a lot of working details in here.

So they can be open for any child under the age of 18.

So that's a great benefit for the next few years.

And then the contributions are capped at $5,000 per year.

So fairly restrictive there.

But understand what they're trying to do in terms of creating some wealth for younger children that they can build and let it grow over those 18 years.

When the child reaches 18, the account is kind of functions like a traditional IRA.

So you have your typical penalties for withdrawals before the age of 59 and a half.

You can convert it to Roth from what we can tell, which we'll get to here in a little bit, and speak a little bit more about that opportunity.

One big thing is the contributions are not tax deductible.

And so unlike a traditional IRA, where you would contribute to that within certain income levels, these are not tax deductible.

So they're effectively after tax contributions but the growth grows tax free, tax deferred, not tax free.

And one interesting point is employers are eligible to contribute to these accounts.

Unclear on what that looks like or how common that will be in the future, but it is a possibility.

No requirements to distribute at a certain date.

So the idea that distributions of the basis is going to be tax free and then earnings are taxed at income tax rates.

It's a really fascinating idea.

I think it's been kicked around quite a bit over the years but it's, it's fascinating to see it kind of experimenting with and we'll see how it shakes out.

But any other thoughts or Jared, you want to talk about kind of some of the planning implications related to these types of accounts.

I think it's a great overview, Nathan.

I think one mechanical thing that's not doesn't really materially impact anybody but it does need to be invested in a low cost index fund that consists primarily of US companies.

Kind of something to be aware of.

I think this account is interesting because it's a new investment vehicle.

Right.

And that perks my ears up.

When people mention Trump accounts I think the thing they get excited about is like oh the $1,000 contribution, what that compounds to and yes that's a big deal.

But also it's just a new account.

If I want to sa for my kid in a retirement account prior to this account existing and I'll call it a retirement account loosely because I think a lot of the tax implications kind of it functions similarly.

If I wanted to fund a retirement account for a kid, my kid would have income.

Right.

And you'd see these people on Instagram talking about hey, if you employ your kid at your job and put them in, you know, make Roth IRA contributions and all that stuff, it's like that's a lot of mechanical work and right.

Not a lot of kids have reportable income that they can report.

And yeah, you can create, you know, income especially if you're self employed and can hire your kids.

But you know, it's kind of a lot of mental gymnastics.

It is just fascinating that there's a new investment vehicle to save for your kid's future.

Right.

And a couple of things that I'll say that how it's different like 529 you can save but those are earmarked for education expenses.

So it's kind of constrained.

Utmas you can save and there's not really any, you know, contribution limits.

You know there's annual gift exclusions but like UTMA is an account to where there's an age of majority and age determination.

Age majority basically says, hey, you could get the account.

The child can have the account at that year, at that age, which is generally 18.

Age determination.

21 basically says, hey, the account is the child's.

It's pretty opposite end of the spectrum.

Hey, I can either save for my child's education or I can save for their future.

But they become, they get a gain 100% control and have no penalties to making distributions as early as age 21.

Right.

And so I think like the contribution limits of the Trump account are small at $5,000 per year.

But I mean that's meaningful, right?

If you're going to take advantage of compounding.

I think this account is most interesting if maybe I don't see it as like, hey, do we use this instead of a utma?

Do we use this instead of a 529?

I think it could potentially be a both and scenario.

I want my kid to take advantage of compounding, but, but I also, you know, I want to kind of provide for them at various different stages of life.

So I think, I think this is a cool kind of account.

A lot remains to be seen in terms of Roth conversions.

Is, is this account included in the, the efc, the estimated financial contribution for a family for planning.

Right.

So there's still some kind of unknowns in term of the mechanics, what's the taxation of Roth conversions, all that stuff.

But I think it is just interesting that there's now a new account to think about in terms of legacy planning for your kids.

You hit the nail on the head with.

It's just another vehicle.

Right.

And I think one of the things that makes me more excited about this, admittedly I, I think there are some limitations and it's not perfect, but in combination with some of these other accounts, like partial contributions to the five to nines and maybe in UTMA and maybe some contributions here, I think it can be really powerful based upon what we know so far.

And so one of the things that I keep thinking about and we spoke about this ahead of time, is just this idea that you could wake up theoretically at the age of 18 if you're contributing the max to these accounts and you could have an account worth, you know, 100 to $200,000 depending on market returns.

And the idea that you could then potentially convert that to a Roth IRA and give your child a head start with Roth assets that grow tax free for the remainder of their life, almost a couple hundred thousand dollars that's, that's meaningful.

And so obviously a lot to be unpacked, more details needed for this, this account, but definitely something to monitor as a, as another option to put your kids ahead.

Yeah.

And again it's interesting because like I don't think it's the, I don't think it's the fix.

All right.

I wouldn't just open and fund this blindly.

Right.

If you think about what you were just talking about, which is, you know, it's made with after tax contributions and distributions are income taxable.

Compare that to a brokerage account, I fund that with after tax dollars and it accumulates and appreciates a value and any return of basis of cost, what I paid is not a taxable event.

And then any amount above that appreciation is subject to capital gains.

Right.

And so what you're talking about is an appreciation and a vehicle that appreciates and the appreciation is subject to income tax which is a higher marginal brackets than capital gains.

Right.

So I really think you need to think critically about, okay, how does this fit into my plan in terms of legacy planning in terms of taxation of my situation and my future kids situation, how good have I done of a job, have I done funding, kind of their other basis is.

And as I'm saving for my kids, what's the desired use of this?

But I do think it's interesting, kind of worth keeping in mind.

Absolutely.

Any other thoughts on Trump accounts before we get to maybe the next topic?

No.

Let's talk about qbi.

There's a lot of with this.

But I just want to talk about just the quick, you know what it means.

This is another interesting one where it's a continuation, it was set to sunset but basically qualified business income of pass through entities.

So think sole proprietorships, think S Corps, think partnerships get a 20% deduction.

Right.

So it reduces the base that's being calculated for, for income taxation note, not employment income and not C Corps.

For our retiree listeners here that have taken on some kind of part time income or they might be doing some consulting.

Right.

This could impact how you think about hey, can I take advantage of this?

And then okay, what are the consequences of entity selection?

What type of entity should I set up?

So I will say a couple of just nuances from a implementation of this bill perspective.

There's a carve out for special service trades and businesses.

If you're a consultant and most of our clients who are people we interact with who have retired from, you know, super major oil and gas companies or the profession, their income in the next season they're what we call their encore career.

So after they've, after they've retired is generally, you know, kind of some form of consulting income.

And so you're subjects to kind of a phase out of, of that income of that deduction if you will.

And that starts at 394,000.

So just know that if you're a SSTB special specific service trader business you have some phase outs to be aware of.

But I do think it's important to know that hey as a self employed person historically you've gotten really punished from a tax perspective because you have FICA tax that Justin loves talking so much about and you are subject to two pieces, the employer piece and the employee piece.

And as a self employed person, I remember the first time I for my first year as a self employed person I was so surprised at how much my taxes went up because on top of income taxes I was responsible for both bits of fica.

And so by having this qualified business income deduction available to certain taxpayers does kind of help manage the, manage the tax liability there.

So Nathan, anything you'd add there?

The only thing I would add is just any, any clients or listeners that are thinking through, you know their, their second, their second career or a pseudo career into retirement.

It's definitely something to think through and great benefit that now that is permanent.

There's other also one other wrinkle, right?

It's like super niche.

Maybe two of our listeners have this.

A lot of people push S corps because part of your S corp compensation is wages which pay FICA and profit distributions which not pay fica.

So by having a portion of your total compensation not subject to FICA kind of reduces the FICA tax.

But if you're a non SSTB and you're a high income earner, there's just a, there's just a cliff to be aware of to where your QBI becomes a function of.

There's, there's a carve out for people that are over a certain income threshold where you get to take the lesser of 20 of your total income or 50 of your wages.

If you're listening, you're one of the 2S corp owners on here that are probably make a niche component for oil and gas compression and you're an S corp and you're wages, you've made your wages as low as possible to be a reasonable salary.

But all profit.

Just know there's kind of some unintended consequences where you actually might be leaving some QBI dollars on the TABLE because of a phase out.

I won't really talk too much more in depth about it because it's a very niche problem.

But just know SSTB phase outs, non SSTB phase outs.

But QBI is, is meaningful for people creating self employed and kind of have income in their encore career after retirement.

You want to dive into some thoughts around overrated pieces of this bill.

I would caveat that by saying maybe overrated for our audience, right?

And like, because like it's all about like I think this bill has something for everybody.

So the things that we're going to say are overrated might be some of the most meaningful pieces of legislation to a part of the US population just not to who our primary listener is.

I think to kick off my overrated component for our listeners is the auto loan interest deduction.

It was something that perked my ears up when I first saw it.

Looking to buy a car here in the next number of years.

But when you get under the hood, no pun intended, you start to understand that it may be limited for some of our listeners.

The deductible interest is capped at $10,000 per year.

The big piece of this that really impacts our listeners maybe is it begins phase out at $100,000 of income for single filers and 200,000 for joint filers.

And so that can really impact your eligibility for utilizing this.

So not used vehic.

I oftentimes will look for the one to two year old vehicle that may have already gotten that depreciation off their books.

But it only applies to new vehicles.

So less impactful.

If you're looking for a used vehicle, the last really important thing is the car has to be assembled within the United States.

So I was actually surprised with how many vehicles are actually assembled within the United States.

Even if they're form made they're a lot of them are assembled here.

But also one component that you need to be aware of if you're, if you're trying to take advantage of that piece.

Man, the thing that blew my mind that you just kind of glossed over is it's capped at $10,000 of interest which is just such a sign of the times because you know there's people that are going to go above that cap.

Right.

Like even 10 years ago like it was 0% interest rates pre Covid.

You know that was like that was probably a really good car payment or a truck Payment, you know, now there's people that are likely over that.

So just as you said that, that, that kind of caught my eye.

But I, I agree with you.

I think it's interesting.

But you know, with the 10k cap, with the short term time horizon of it only being three years and then the phase outs being so low, it's like really much to do about nothing for, for the average listener of this podcast.

What about you, Jared?

Where, where did your mind go?

Mine went to QSBS qualified sale of business stock.

So this is the exclusion of a gain of small business stock.

And so one of the things they said earlier was QBI was not applicable to C Corp. Qsbs is only applicable to C Corps.

And this, they get a capital gains exclusion.

And this is one of those things that was, it's growing.

So before, before the new beautiful bill it was 10 million and now it's growing to 5 million.

And that is per entity.

Right?

So if I own C Corp. Stock and I invest, you know, half a million dollars and it grows to $15 million and I sell it, there is no capital gains tax, assuming that the underlying stock qualifies for qsbs.

And you might be thinking to yourself, Jared, you just talked about a strategy that potentially avoids tens of millions of dollars in capital gains.

How is that in your overrated category?

Well, most types of oil and gas businesses and professional service businesses are excluded.

This piece of legislation is a huge deal.

Like if you, you know, let's say you own a C Corp and you, it's like a, it's like a tangible business that produces some type of thing that's QSBS qualified.

Right.

And it's not like a, it's like an enterprise like consulting firm or an advisory firm like what we do.

Right?

That's a big deal.

But because, you know, most oil and gas businesses and professional services businesses are excluded.

My guess is that the percentage of people that own businesses, not outside of those two, is pretty low considering most of our listeners are a oil and gas professionals that own own oil and gas businesses or professional services businesses kind of using, being compensated for their expertise in a more fractional way.

And I will say this, this piece of legislation is fascinating because you can even, you know that that $15 million exclusion is per entity.

Right?

So, so if you properly structure some illiquid trusts and those also own the C Corp stock that you could get potentially multiples of that $50 million capital gains exclusion.

So again, we're talking about tens of millions of dollars of capital gains avoided, just not applicable to a lot of the businesses that a lot of our audiences find themselves in.

Probably applies to somebody, but not likely most of our listeners.

And if it applies to you, that is awesome.

The other thing that I'll say here is that the ramp to qsbs.

So historically you had to be a C corp for at least five years and if you were only a C Corp for three years, you didn't get any QSBs.

It was an all or nothing proposition.

Now if you're a C Corp for three years, you'll get a partial QSBS exclusion.

Right?

So it's just much more favorable terms, but again, not applicable to our audience.

And Nathan, I feel like we've been going a while and I feel like we could go a lot longer, but it's just one of the things where, hey, there's just so much in here.

So I think that's a good spot to wrap it up.

Any ideas for future episodes?

Any pieces of this legislation that you might maybe think are overrated or underrated or things you wish we talked more about?

If we get enough listeners feedback, we could talk about some more pieces of this bill.

But that about wraps it up for now.

Always love to hear from our listeners podcast@brownleewealthmanagement.com thanks.

We'll see you next time.

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