In a session recorded at The Media Product Forum in NYC, Bloomberg Media global head of product Marissa Zanetti-Crume shares how the media organization takes an audience-focused approach to building products. Marissa highlights the importance of understanding user behavior, particularly the shift towards personalized, relevant content delivered efficiently. She shares insights on Bloomberg's recent homepage redesign, the role of AI in enhancing user experience, and the strategic decisions driving their product development.

Welcome to The Rebooting Show.

I am Brian Morrissey.

We are kicking off a series of podcasts over the next couple of weeks, from an event we held last week in New York City in collaboration with WordPress VIP.

We gathered together 75 or so product leaders publishers at WordPress's soon to be former offices.

They used to be home to In order to discuss the challenges and opportunities facing product leaders and publishers today, we I mean, obviously a lot is in flux at the moment, which leaves product departments with the conundrum of what to build and to what purpose, we just released a research report, also done in collaboration with WordPress VIP to assess the state of product at publishing companies.

We found that many publishers are facing, the challenge of trying to nail the basics, to, Serve real business goals at a time when everyone pretty much has to do more with less.

And that means focusing on things like site performance, first party data and personalization over flashy new features.

In a report, Bloomberg Media head of product, Marissa Zanetti Karoum, told us, We're sitting across all of the businesses within media and thinking critically about how well we understand who our audience is.

How do we make our news truly relevant and timely?

We talk directly to subscribers about that.

It's what inspires the design and product work we do.

I dug into this and more with Marissa in the following conversation we recorded last week at the Media Product Forum.

We discussed how product is organized at Bloomberg, how it is impacted by being part of a larger organization that at its heart is really a product company, why Marissa is something of an AI skeptic and what Bloomberg was trying to accomplish with its recent homepage relaunch.

Thank you again to WordPress for its partnership in the media product forum and the state of product report.

And also to bring these conversations to the rebooted show.

be sure to check out, the report.

I will leave a link to it in the show notes and you can always find it on the rebooting's website now under my discussion with Marissa.

Okay.

Hi, hey everyone.

Yeah, good.

Marissa just had, like, several cups of coffee, so she's,

I'm good.

I'm

So, Marissa, you are the, the head of product at Bloomberg.

I think one of the interesting things that I think about when I think about Bloomberg is that it is a product company.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How does that change, first of all, how is product defined within Bloomberg?

Because I think a lot of times it can mean lots of different things in different

So many things.

and I think it's, it's true.

And I appreciate your comments earlier about alignment and tradeoffs like our team.

I really see us as sort of the central focal point of everything that the business is currently touching.

And we, represent our users.

And then we also support our revenue streams.

And so you can imagine.

our team is really critical to thinking about how we're building the future of the business in a way that I think is really exciting, and, really critical to how we're thinking about it.

And so I think it's been great to see some of the, You know, core parts of being a product manager.

So it's like really understanding your user, understanding their pain points, thinking about how we use data and all of these things, I think, are really just infusing, you know, exist, you know, existed at Bloomberg before DSO.

It's been a great opportunity for us to really think about how how we drive and how we build.

So what, but what rolls up within the product organization?

Yeah, so we support, what we call sort of digital engagement, which is really looking, across all of the platforms that our customers touch.

So our core website, our mobile app, our video products, audio newsletter.

So all of those extensions.

that are users are really touching.

and then we also support our events business.

We support our commercial organization.

and then we support our data infrastructure.

So really thinking about, how, how our team really were both.

I think we're both horizontal and verticals where we're thinking about, how we grow our audience base, how we grow our subscriber, but also how to really, really support and underpin some of the core foundation that's, That's driving our business forward.

Our CMS is a part of that, which I know we'll talk about, as a group.

But, we're really across the whole organization, which I think is a really powerful place for a product team to be.

did you get into product?

Oh, No, it definitely was not.

I will date myself to say I don't think it existed when I started working.

I started my career editing history textbooks, which feels like, man, Stone Age.

right choice.

Well, you know, it was one of those things.

I sort of feel like whenever you talk to people in product, a lot of folks have great stories about how they just fell into product and fell in love with it.

and it was a little bit of right place, right time when it was as that industry was really shifting from a very Print based world to students and teachers starting to use more like digital technology and thinking about, how technology can help learners with different styles, learn and read and consume information.

And so that's really been my path into product, and I think is really what's keeping me inspired to continue to work and then work in the media space in the new space.

space.

Yeah.

So what do you think the sort of, the future, how will the, the job that product does, how will that change in the organization, in five years?

I mean, if you ask me, how is that going to change in the next week?

I don't know if I could answer that, but I think, I think what you said about audience and knowing your users is going to become more critical.

I think we're working, and living in a time where subscriptions flood the market.

And so there's so much choice.

And so we're really thinking about in a world of choice.

How do we stand out?

What is the value?

How do we differentiate?

And I really think product is the vehicle within an organization who can both sort of, work with the newsroom or work with the organization at large and really, bring alignment around that audience and who we're serving.

And so I think That will stay the same.

I think the things that are going to change are going to be the kind of product that we build, the platforms that we're on, how we think about revenue models as sort of like the business and sort of human behavior change over time.

So, let's

you decide what to build, right?

Because, even like anyone who has not been to the Bloomberg tower, I highly recommend it.

They have amazing snacks.

they have a very strange thing where they, they keep your photo though on file and so you get to like confront how, how, how much older you've gotten and when you return.

but, anyway, great office.

but.

How do you decide what you're going to build?

Because even like, you know, as part of Bloomberg, a lot of, you know, advantages to that.

But, you know, I do think we're moving into a more with less here.

And then on top of that, a lot's unclear about what the shape of this business looks like in five years.

Like I, I, I spend can asking people like, okay, well, what's your business look like in five years?

And I got, oh, come

who knows?

We'll figure it out as

So, but, but how do you decide what to build and what, what, what are the priorities?

Yeah.

yeah, I mean, I think for us, one of the things that we've really made a concerted effort around is to keep the user at the forefront of what it is that we are building, and thinking about, what it is that we need to be successful, how do we serve those users, and then, what moves from that.

I think a good example is, you know, we Earlier this year, we launched a brand new homepage.

I was like, why the homepage?

homepages are back, but it was really like, we saw that our users were there, our subscribers were there, it was really a place where we could express our brand voice and the value of our work.

and so, we did a lot of work talking to our users, we looked at our data, we sort of understood, like strategically, what does it mean for Bloomberg to be audience first, and what are some of the sort of tenets of that.

And that's really helping, you know, I think drive some of the decisions we make around the products that we build.

I think that audience focus is also, you know, influencing what we're building when we think about our commercial business and how we work with marketers and really thinking about, you know, we released a product.

Product called audience accelerator, and that's really about how marketers can You know make sure their products are meeting the audience that we want and so really getting crisp around who our audience is What they value from us?

What their pain points are how do we solve it and and really?

You know, keeping that at the, at the forefront as much as we can around the decisions, that we make.

And, and, you know, sometimes we make decisions for other reasons.

Sometimes, you know, we look at revenue.

It's a complicated space.

but I think really understanding our audience has set us up to have really good conversations, to think about trade offs, and to really be thoughtful about kind of the big bets that we're taking

So when you think about trade offs, I always think it's good to have Like I think some people call it a North Star metric.

I just did podcast with Jason White, the chief product and technology officer at the Arena Group and, he talked about a God metric and he was saying revenue per session was like the God metric and that everything that they're gonna build around is around revenue per session.

do you think that way or no?

Because there's a lot of different like thing, you're talking about what falls under product, you're gonna have

to

metrics, so many options.

and, and we had a lot of conversations about that, and still do.

I think that One of the things that was really important for us is sort of this broader hypothesis that is, if we can engage our audience, if they find value in our product, they will stick with us over time, and that's gonna drive revenue in the long term, and that's gonna build a really strong audience cohort that marketers are gonna want to be around.

And so, our hypothesis is really like we drive revenue.

By building a product that, that our consumers really want.

and so when we thought about North Star Metrics, we, we thought about what does that mean to have like a, a strong customer and, and how do we sort of measure that.

And so we've been really thinking about, product usage.

And so it's, it's, How much are people using our product?

Bloomberg exists across many platforms.

So we also think about, depth of usage across platforms.

are people consuming our podcasts?

Are they consuming our video content on on CTV and fast channels?

and just really understanding how our users are interacting with us.

with our content across that ecosystem.

And, and understanding where they are, looking at the data, understanding how they're engaging with that content is helping us make smarter decisions around how do we choose to monetize, how do we think about our subscription business.

How do you think retention?

So, um, Um, really for us, um, So, um, us, um, Um, engage metrics focused, um, you know, around monthly active users and, and consumption, and reach has been important for

and, and consumption, um, and reach has been important for us.

mean, I think we've focused, um,

mean, I think we've focused, a bit more around usage.

I think with, really strong search platforms, sort of really different ecosystem with social platforms driving so much reach and distribution for us.

It was really about, like, scale and scope.

and really thinking about, right, Total UVs.

Total UVs on for us as we think about our business in the long term and what it means to be engaged like we want people to come back over time, and we want people to continue to use our product on.

That's really what we think is going to help us grow our business.

And so how do we strive towards that repeat engagement?

We still care about reach.

We want people to know who we are, who our brand is, what Bloomberg Media is about on.

So that's really important.

But I think, you know, we balance that a bit more with looking at engagement and looking at those metrics that help up help us measure.

Are we being successful at driving value for our audience?

So what are some, specific measures of engagement?

Is it just time on site?

Pages consumed?

huge fan of time on site, but because it's like, you know, you away like who knows?

we really look at, sort of repeat engagement.

so within a month, there are people coming back multiple times.

Like how frequently are they touching Bloomberg content across different platforms?

and then we also look at how much are they consuming?

What kinds of thing are they consuming?

Things are they consuming?

you know, we're a product.

We've got market data.

We have, incredible data graphics.

We've got content.

And so there's a great audio video.

There's a great variety of what we offer, as an organization.

And so really understanding how consumers are engaging with all of that content, and helping us sort of understand, really, what does good look like?

and then as we learn more about our audience, just sort of the, you know, How are people, you know, if there's volatility in the market, or there's a, you know, a story that's, that's popping in the news, how are they looking at market data versus news?

one of the things we've heard is that people really are craving that context.

So really understanding, okay, this happened, but why?

and, for our audience in particular, it's about how does this impact the market?

How does it impact, My money the money and we really feel like that's a place where we can really shine And so really I think for us its engagement is understanding.

are we delivering on that context or people?

Reading deeply about a particular topic or story and then are they coming back?

are they finding value in that?

So how did that inform the, well actually I want to get to how that informed the homepage.

But first of all, why, why redesign the homepage?

Like I mean before it was like always you start with the article page because

all

the,

do we still talk about side

Yeah, yeah, no, that's, yeah, front

door, side door.

so why, why the, why the homepage?

Yeah,

it's like almost like half your track.

half.

I think, I mean, we still have, I think, like any publisher, many people coming in through certs and social or we do have sort of users who are coming to us sort of through newsletters.

And so there's a variety of side doors, if you will.

I think one of the things when we sat down to look at the data and to really understand our audience, we said, We saw our subscribers were spending time on the homepage, and that was surprising to those of us who've maybe been like, Oh, that's interesting, the homepage.

and so we, like, did some surveys and, you know, we sort of were like, why?

What's the value you find here?

Why are you here?

how is the home page, like, what's the need it's serving for you?

How is it helping you in your day?

and we got some, some great answers around that.

you know, people care about what, what Bloomberg publishes, what Bloomberg thinks is important.

There's, there's data, there's this, this timeliness to sort of our publication.

So then we look to sort of say, well, is our home page, Nailing it, is it, is a great, we hadn't changed it for several years, so it perhaps was like needed a little bit of a refresh.

And as we started to look at our homepage and kind of understand again what people wanted from it, but they liked about it when it wasn't delivering.

I think that really informed a lot of what you see in the homepage now and its small things, right.

It's like when there's a story that breaks now sort of the, you know, You can see the market data.

And that was a big thing for our users, which is like, don't just tell me what happened, but how is it impacting the markets?

context was, was important to our consumers.

And so as we're publishing again across different formats or, you know, Publishing sort of different angles of the same story.

How do we bring that together in a product?

And so we built a feature that we sort of call the record that does that.

It sort of brings together, different perspectives and information around a particular story that helps our audience like go really deep when they want to and really understand, Sort of like the story behind the story, and I think the other piece we, we heard loud and clear, which I'm sure everyone hears, no one has time, and they want things delivered to them really quickly, and they want it to feel really relevant,

and so there's, sort of the right rail of the page is, is really about delivering on that, which is sort of like, here's the latest, here's the rundown, here's the top movers in the market, and so you start to really get, I think we have like, an audio update that publishes like every 30 minutes or every hour, and And so it's really the space where people can come in and get like, here's what's new, here's what's timely.

And so a lot of the sort of great visual design and I think a lot of the product work was really done in an effort to sort of listen to those users and, really deliver on those needs.

And it's been, super exciting and I'm so proud of the team because we, you know, put a survey up after we launched it.

Nobody likes change.

but it was really fulfilling to hear our users be like, Oh, hey, it's great to get the market data with the news story.

And so, you really heard from our consumers that they got what we were trying to do.

We were like, we heard you, you heard us.

And so, but it was really about it was where our subscribers were, what was driving them to be there, what value did they find from it, and then how do we just like,

make it better for them?

It's funny, we were talking like earlier, and it's very different than like the 2015 redesign.

I was, I'm dating myself, I guess, a little bit.

And that was, Josh Topolsky was, was in charge of it, and I think Josh has, does some amazing stuff with design and really pushing things forward.

Originally with the verge and now he's doing it with Sherwood.

Some really interesting stuff with the product there.

but it was probably too much for Bloomberg.

I mean, just because I feel like though these exercises and we called it back to the basics, are really, they gotta be tied to real business goals and not, a lot of the flashy stuff that I feel like the mid 2010s were

Yeah, yeah, and I think you know, one of the things that's interesting about the project is I think the last version of the homepage was around 2018 or 2019, and from then till now, which I guess actually is six years, which is a decent amount of time, you just sort of think we consume information and we want information in very different ways, and so, for us it's, it's not just like, hey, we listened to our users and we built this thing, it's

like

People are going to change how they consume, and we need to think about how we change our product to keep up.

and I think the, the homepage is a great example of, you know, I think when we did this in 2018, it, it met a user need, and people were excited about it, and they liked it, and it made sense for how,

They were consuming information, and that's different now, and we sort of saw that in, in the research that we, we did, prior to the project, and I think, so who knows, maybe the, the orange and purple was like, you know, hit it, hit it on the mark when it happened, and, you know, I think we all change, and, and so for us, it's like, how do we make sure our product is, is just staying relevant for our consumers.

for our consumers.

Yeah, but how about the article page?

And, cause I, I'm interested

in the future page.

Um, because I think, like, it's obviously been the, the core of, what, you know, people make, right?

And the question I always ask people is, will article pages matter in five years?

I think

years?

I think they will.

I think the question is, what are they going to look like?

and I think, You know, I think it's, people are always going to want information about a certain thing, or a certain topic, or a certain story.

People are always kind of going to want to either, you know, get the updates really brief, give me the bullets, or they're going to want to go really deep.

And I think with our audience in particular, we hear that.

Sometimes they want to do that deep reading, they need that sort of like deeper analysis and insight, and that's what they value from us.

And so I think that need is still going to exist.

I think, you know, What that article page looks like, sort of the conceit of the page, is that, you know, how does it look, how does it feel, how do you interact with it, I think all those pieces are gonna, are gonna change.

But I think at the heart of it,

like, I think,

users are still going to want a space where they can come and learn and go deep.

and again, we'll, we'll continue to figure out how people, engage with that.

I think we still hear from our audience they're interested in longer reads, which was sort of surprising to me.

And I think in a culture where we're all, you know, exhausted sort of at the end of the day.

And, and so I think people are still craving, Deeper reads, insight, something they can kind of lose themself in, and go deep.

And so we'll see if that changes.

so I think there will still always be an article.

I just think the form of it will shift.

I find it like, and so what about what is the, the role of the app then?

Because I mean, again, Bloomberg is unusual in that, I'm sure you get a lot of desktop traffic, which is strange for a lot of publishers, right?

and it's a lot of traffic during the day.

people are at their desk.

And a lot of your core users are kind of forbidden from using apps, like social apps and things.

So, I mean, you've got a lot of strange things that a lot of publishers don't.

With that said, what is, what is the role of the app?

Because I think that would.

That would

seem to be like what the homepage, the modern version of the homepage.

Yeah,

think it's a great question.

and I, you know, I think it's one that, that we sort of debate and think about all the time.

I think we see the app, as really a compliment to our core products.

And I think.

think,

The way we think about the app again is really understanding the user journey when people go to the app versus when they go to the website versus when they read a newsletter and and we see spikes in behavior you can imagine commuting is like for I'm sure many of our consumers are reading while they commute and so like they're not going to necessarily a website.

And so, we're, you know,

understanding

those app readers?

Are they also consuming on other platforms, or are they solely app?

And then, how do we think about building experiences that are either complimentary, and how you engage with those two platforms during a day, or how do we think about this by example?

This product is.

Is it more separate?

Does it sort of live on its own?

But I think we are are unique in a lot of ways, where we have consumers who engaged with Bloomberg across multiple touch points during the day.

And so I think it's a constant question for us, which is, you know, where do we emphasize different behavior and different content on these platforms?

And then how do we also keep the journey seamless?

So the brand, the voice feels consistent.

you think because of the Bloomberg audience, you don't have to keep up with sort of the latest consumption patterns as much I mean, I just noticed like in the New York Times, like app there's, there's a certain tick tock of occasion that's happening there.

except it's like middle aged reporters instead.

Okay.

Um, I don't think we are immune to that.

you know, I think you see, when, we, we talk to our users, people use our apps and our products in the way that they use other apps and products.

I don't know that.

People put on a different hat 'cause they're using a new site.

And so I think there are patterns that we wanna be mind mindful of in how we're thinking about building our product alongside everything else people are using.

'cause I think that line of what people pay for, how people consume information is getting really blurry.

So I, I don't know that we can just go in a hole and be like, we're Bloomberg.

We're, you know, we're gonna ignore how.

that people seem to like video, but for us it's, it's

What's our overall strategy?

What do we hear from our consumers?

What do we think is right for our brand?

We have a pretty, a broad audience that's, you know, got a lot of different needs, and so for us, as a product team, how do we think about which ones we serve where?

and, we're doing a lot of work in the app right now to think about, how we really, But eventually, uh, we'll, we'll let the community serve that app audience and we're getting to know them a little bit deeper.

And it's been exciting, so stay tuned.

exciting situation.

So what are the priorities on the CMS side and just like on the foundational infrastructure level?

Because again, it's I always would love the stories about like a redesign.

There are not any stories anymore, but yeah, it's kind of like, the subway, right?

Like politicians love the, the new station, you know, you know, they get to cut a ribbon and stuff, but like the real work is like fixing the signals

and,

Yeah.

and, and that work.

Yeah, it's harder to talk about the stuff that, is less, like, we're more efficient now.

but like, that actually was a key thing for us.

Like, when we sat down to do the homepage project, for example, we talked to our, the team in the newsroom, and it was a really strong and really great collaboration with them to both sort of design the front end, but also think about how we design the tools, that they're using, and how do we make their lives easier.

And You know, we, we can't, the homepage can't be what it is without the back end tooling getting a facelift or being upgraded as well, and so you really can't, You know, divorce the two.

You kind of have to think about them together.

And so, with each of the projects that we're doing, that's like a big component.

you know, we serve our users.

We also serve our newsroom.

We, we partner with them.

We build their tools.

and, and so, you know, again, those things have to be sort of seamless and, and how they work.

And so, that's just a part of all of the work that we

do.

Can the CMS be a competitive advantage?

Because we went through a period where a lot of companies, maybe it was venture

capital

driven, maybe, but they were sort of masquerading as technology companies and they were saying that their CMSs, which usually had strange names from like Greek

mythology,

were a massive competitive advantage.

I think the verge is like CMS caused some editors to cry.

They weeped when they saw it.

I mean, I think to me, I mean, I don't know, if I would say it's a competitive advantage, but I think it's just, I think each newsroom is different, sort of the pace of each newsroom is different, and sort of the needs there are different, and as a product team, that is a product that we have to care for, and think about how we make those workflows and tools work better, For the newsroom.

and so I think just it's it's important to keep that mind is it's like a part of the product, not a separate product.

and I think, again, we've built great partnerships and, you know, think about innovation in that platform as much as we do on the front end.

And I think that that's been successful for us.

So

we made it 27 minutes without talking about A.

I.

Congrats.

Great.

Great.

That's over now.

Yeah.

I'm told you're an AI skeptic.

me

You told me

that

I did, I did say that not a skeptic.

maybe that's a strong word.

I think, like we're all still figuring it out and so I think it's really exciting.

I think there's a lot of opportunity, and I think it's fun to see how people are being creative with it, but it's so

but leave aside generative AI and stuff.

We're talking about AI, not totally new, like What, how are you using it, if at all, and what gains, if any, have you seen from it, measurable gains?

I think that, we've used, I think, you know, we've all, we've all used personalization and levels of personalization across, our products.

We have a feature in our mobile app that's called the Bulletin, and that's, driven by AI and, and gives you sort of top three stories and some, some summaries.

And so, I think we've been leveraging, AI in our products for a while.

And I think we see that, really is an avenue, both to really, like, we hear from users, they're like, oh, this needs to feel relevant to me, or, I'm looking for this thing.

But when you're like, what are you looking for?

There's, there's no answer.

And so like, where I think.

You know, we can use sort of a eyes to think about, how we better deliver content to our consumers and make sure it feels relevant.

And it's what it is that they need.

And again, we have a pretty broad audience.

And so, that's important for us to be able to do.

And so that's that's been an important component to how we build our products, and then, of course, we've, you know, we leverage it on the commercial side of the house as we think about audiences and understanding our audiences, and, you know, again, that audience accelerator is a product we built that's really around, like, how we're targeting, consumers, leveraging some of what, what is relevant to them.

Okay, So it sounds like no like home run

I think it's like

I mean, it's like the blocking and tackling and it makes like slightly more efficient, but it's not like this is changing the business.

I think that's the big question, a trillion dollars has gone into this.

It's going to have to, I think we're officially in the trough of disillusionment, with

I think we're officially in the trough.

AI is just infused in, like, it has been infused in our, our product and, and when we build out features, we think about how do we use sort of machine learning to make these better?

Can they make these better?

Or is it the right thing?

and to be really thoughtful about when we deploy it and when we don't.

and so on some level, it's not necessarily, it could be a big win, but just, like, it's something we consider, for every single feature that we're building, and I think it's just a part of our process.

So, final thing, and this will.

Pull in Gen AI a little bit.

when we're thinking about consumer expectations, because that's the thing that I really wonder about, with, with search moving to answers and, you know, things just becoming more, a lot of the, look, Silicon Valley loves to remove friction.

They love it.

They love it.

Um, so they're trying to remove a lot of the friction and, and a lot of publishing businesses are, frankly, built on friction.

but How does that change consumer expectations?

Because I think the big question for me ends up being, will the publishing experience as it is, well, that's start to feel incredibly outdated.

And I think about the Forbes kerfuffle over perplexity, taking an in depth investigative piece that Forbes had had done about Eric Schmidt and his various, investments in defense tech and perplexity created a page, a package like using it.

I mean, you could say as AI, they basically just took the content.

but.

It was a superior user experience for sure.

I mean, no offense to Forbes, but it's a pretty aggressive article page experience.

I'll say, do you think it changes consumer expectations or is it just, it's a big unknown?

I

think it expectations, or is it just, it's a big unknown?

Something we're mindful of, and something we're thinking about, and, you know, I think it's, for us, it's, how do we understand what users want, and if this feels like the right answer, then, let's pursue it, but we want to be thoughtful and responsible about how we're using something like that, because I think what's so

important to, to Bloomberg is, you know, there's, there's a lot of trust in the brand, and so we take that really seriously, and we want to be thoughtful about how we leverage these tools, but I think time will tell, I just think it's, We just don't know how, how I think we all want to engage with AI and interact with it.

So

so.

Okay, so.

right now, no Bloomberg bot.

you know, like we're, everyone's playing around with it.

We'll see.

Yeah,

quarter.

Alright, thank you Marissa.

Appreciate it.

you.