Shownotes
David Richards, the dynamic founder and CEO of Change Maker Education, takes us on an exhilarating journey into the future of education through the concept of micro schools. Picture this: a classroom where a handful of students are not just numbers, but individuals whose voices are heard, and where parents are as engaged as teachers, creating a community of learning rather than a factory line of rote memorization. David, with over 25 years in education reform, passionately discusses his experiences and the pivotal moments that led him to this innovative educational model. He dives deep into his personal history, revealing how his family's struggles with dyslexia fueled his desire to create an educational environment that embraces every child's uniqueness. He shares anecdotes about his father, who was thrust into a factory job at a tender age due to a broken educational system, and contrasts that with his own journey through prestigious institutions like UC Berkeley and Stanford.
As we explore the nitty-gritty of micro schools, David clarifies what sets them apart from traditional schooling and even homeschooling. These aren't just smaller schools; they're a revolution in how we think about education. They prioritize personalization, agency, and experiential learning—values that are often lost in larger classroom settings. David emphasizes the importance of community involvement, where parents collaborate with educators to create a nurturing atmosphere that caters to the kids' needs. The conversation not only sheds light on the mechanics of micro schools but also highlights the emotional and social benefits they offer. Listeners will feel inspired to rethink education, perhaps even considering starting their own micro school, as David outlines the steps and support available for those ready to embark on this adventure.
But wait, there’s more! The episode doesn't shy away from the realities of the education landscape today, especially in light of the recent shifts brought about by the pandemic. We discuss the surge in interest for alternative schooling options and how micro schools are becoming a viable choice for families seeking something different. David also addresses the broader implications of educational policy, including the rise of vouchers and how they empower families to take control of their children's education. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for parents, educators, and anyone interested in the future of learning, with David standing as a beacon of hope and innovation in a landscape that so desperately needs it.
A gift from our guest: Please visit https://www.changemakereducation.com/ for a free guide to founding a microschool
David K Richards is the Founder & CEO of Changemaker Education, a national network of affiliate love-based microschools and an incubator for founders who want to usher in a new paradigm for the future of education. He is also the host of the Changemaker ED“U” podcast. Previously, he was a founding teacher and leader with Summit Public Schools where he launched several innovative schools before becoming the Founder & CEO of Growth Public Schools. In addition he serves as a leadership and life coach. David has worked in education reform for over 25 years as a teacher, principal, executive, and board member. He lives in Sacramento, CA with his wife and his two children, and holds a BA from UC Berkeley and an MA from Stanford University.
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Transcripts
And today I have the pleasure of introducing David Richards.
Speaker A:David is the founder and CEO of Change Major Change Maker Education, a national network of affiliate love based micro schools and an incubator for founders who want to usher in a new paradigm for the future of education.
Speaker A:He is also the host of Changemaker.
Speaker A:Edu podcast.
Speaker A:Previously, he was founder, teacher, and leader with Science Summit Public Schools when he launched several innovative schools before becoming the founder and CEO of Growth Public Schools.
Speaker A:In addition, he serves as leadership and life coach.
Speaker A:David has worked in education reform for over 25 years as a teacher, principal, executive, and board member.
Speaker A:He lives in Sacramento, California with his wife and his two children and holds a BA from UC Berkeley and a master's from Stanford Education.
Speaker A:Welcome, David.
Speaker A:It is a pleasure to have you here today.
Speaker A:I am so interested in hearing more about Microscope Schools.
Speaker B:I'm excited to be here.
Speaker B:Thanks for having me.
Speaker C:Oh, thank you again.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So whenever we're looking for guests, it's always like, okay, what can we bring to our audience that is something a little bit different than what we've talked about before?
Speaker C:A missing link in something that we've talked about.
Speaker C:And since we support homeschool and people who really look at alternative schools, I wanted to find out more about this thing called a micro school.
Speaker C:I've done some research, but coming from somebody who's actually producing them and making them grow and helping people start them, this is a great day for us to have you on the show.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:All right, good.
Speaker C:Can you start with your passion?
Speaker C:What started you down this path of looking at micro schools and alternative education?
Speaker C:And what was that, you know, pivotal point in either your life or your children's life that really made.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think for me it's like deeply personal because I have a family of.
Speaker B:Of my father, my brother and my nephew are.
Speaker B:Are all severely dyslexic.
Speaker B:And so I was good at school, but I always felt like it was a complete waste of time and like, really boring and especially the traditional public schools.
Speaker B:And then my brother was in the special classes in the 80s, right.
Speaker B:And so he was made fun of.
Speaker B:And they only had one class, whether you were any kind of diagnosis.
Speaker B:And so I would get in a lot of, you know, arguments and fights with the kids because they'd call him a lot of mean names.
Speaker B:And then my father is British, and so he actually was kicked out of school at the age of 11.
Speaker B:They actually have a program, they had a program after World War II called Eleven Plus.
Speaker B:So if you were not a good student, you know, you had three choices, university, vocational school or go work in a factory.
Speaker B:So they decided that he should go work in a factory when he was 11 years old.
Speaker B:So he left school and totally turned his life around and was a very successful entrepreneur.
Speaker B:So that was always my, you know, and he always kind of felt like, why are you going to Berkeley and Stanford?
Speaker B:You're, you should go do business.
Speaker B:Like this intellectual stuff's a waste of time.
Speaker B:You know, we always had that conversation.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But yeah.
Speaker B:So for me, it's always been kind of this balance between business and education.
Speaker B:I totally love teaching.
Speaker B:Nobody in my family went to college, so I was the first one to go to college and I got a banking job.
Speaker B:And everybody was really excited for me because I was making a lot of money, but I wasn't very excited.
Speaker B:So I really wanted to be a teacher.
Speaker B:So I went and worked in Oakland Unified School District in California with kids that grew up like me and the kids that I grew up with.
Speaker B:And I loved serving them and working with them.
Speaker B:And then I quickly learned that it was a completely dysfunctional system and that I was not going to create a lot of change.
Speaker B:I went to a nice suburban public school system.
Speaker B:Now I'm working in a dysfunctional urban school system.
Speaker B:And they're kind of the same, but they're not, but the root problems are the same.
Speaker B:I got out of there really quickly and found Summit Public Schools, which is a charter organization.
Speaker B:And we were all about self directed learning, agency for kids, project based learning, empowering teachers and kind of treating everyone as a leader.
Speaker B:And so that led me to my really fun career of, you know, becoming a principal and assistant superintendent.
Speaker B:And then I really wanted to open my own school for my own kids.
Speaker B:So I started a school out here in Sacramento that was another alternative school about self directed learning, social emotional learning.
Speaker B:And our tagline is we do school differently.
Speaker B:So that led me through all of that to find micro schools.
Speaker B:And that's when I got really excited about the things I've been wanting to solve for 25 years can be solved in a micro school because it's small.
Speaker B:The parents are really involved, the teachers have a lot of autonomy and agency, and you can solve problems because of the nature and the size and the value system of micro school.
Speaker B:That's what led me a few years ago to launch this organization and to empower educators that are running away from the public school system or parents like yourselves that are working, that want to do some version of alternative schooling or homeschooling and help them create this Education revolution, which is the future of education.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:I wish I would have maybe found you a couple of years ago before I started my entrepreneur journey.
Speaker C:But I am happy doing what I'm doing because I love speaking and working.
Speaker A:With parents, somebody who is very much into education and really relates to so much of what you talked about.
Speaker A:But for the lay person and the husband who's out throwing work around, what is a micro school?
Speaker A:What does that mean?
Speaker A:How is it, how is it different than homeschooling or a pod?
Speaker A:You know what?
Speaker A:That might.
Speaker A:All my questions might be answered in your initial explanation.
Speaker A:So simple terms for the, the, the non educator out there.
Speaker B:Well, you know what's interesting?
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, us.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, I love it.
Speaker B:What's interesting is a lot of educators don't know what a microschool is.
Speaker B:So that's totally fine.
Speaker B:It's very simple.
Speaker B:There's a national microschooling center and they define it as the size, so five to 150 kids.
Speaker B:So you think about homeschool family that has three kids and maybe they take on three more kids down the street.
Speaker B:That's a microschool in your home.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Considered according to the microschool center, then there's sort of larger, the larger end of the spectrum is like a K12 or maybe preschool through 12 micro school that has 150 kids.
Speaker B:That's another micro school.
Speaker B:But what they share in common is like multi age, very small, typically like 10 to 15 kids per class, sometimes even smaller.
Speaker B:And they're kind of a redux of the one room schoolhouse.
Speaker B:So my, my mother went to school in rural Texas, my mother in law, rural Nebraska.
Speaker B:And they're like, yo buddy, this is not that new or exciting like we did years ago.
Speaker A:I'm cracking up.
Speaker A:I, we just recently moved back to the town where I grew up in and I ran from here like with a passion.
Speaker A:I couldn't get out.
Speaker A:There was 11 people in my graduating class.
Speaker A:There was 55 people in my high school.
Speaker A:This is the public school.
Speaker A:It's a mile and a half down the road from where we are at right now.
Speaker C:So it was an original micro.
Speaker A:And about, and about 10 years ago it actually became a charter school.
Speaker A:And so they actually bus from like 45 miles away to get to the school now.
Speaker A:But to me it's just, it's just prospect school because K through 12 is less than 100 kids.
Speaker A:It's like so.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So listening to you define what a micro school is is like, oh, okay.
Speaker C:Different than a public School in which ways?
Speaker B:Okay, so here's what's interesting.
Speaker B:It's there are public micro schools, and there are private micro schools, and then there's micro schools that are private that are fully funded by vouchers or education savings accounts.
Speaker B:So I always tell people.
Speaker B:And then there's charter micro schools.
Speaker B:I always tell people.
Speaker B:The way it's governed or structured does not define it as a micro school.
Speaker B:So, however, the microschool center does put out an annual report, and currently it's 80% of microschools are private tuition or full tuition.
Speaker B:Parents are paying, or there's a supplement from the state.
Speaker B:Like in Florida, it's like 10,000 per student.
Speaker B:And so some microschools are private micro schools where the parents are paying zero because the tuition is 10,000 and the Florida government is giving them 10,000 per student.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And then there's kind of a movement to create more public district micro schools.
Speaker B:There's like.
Speaker B:That's like 20% right now.
Speaker B:And then there's a movement to kind of do more like public micro charter schools, because they want to, you know, be able to give it to kids without having to make them pay.
Speaker B:But what makes it unique is the small size.
Speaker B:And the microschool center actually has a set of core principles, which I can't remember all ten of them, but.
Speaker B:But I remember that they're like, it's supposed to be small.
Speaker B:The kids are supposed to have agency.
Speaker B:It should be about experiential learning.
Speaker B:It should be about kids being well known and all the things that you look at a great school.
Speaker B:And that's typically what's happening.
Speaker B:So we don't want the public sector to screw this up.
Speaker B:So we're trying really hard to put structures around it and say, okay, just putting 20 kids in a room does not make it a micro school.
Speaker B:You got to have the right teacher, you got to have the right principles, you got to have the right mindsets.
Speaker B:Parents have to be involved.
Speaker B:You cannot push them out like they do in the traditional public schools.
Speaker B:They have to be involved, and they know their parent, their kids better than anyone else.
Speaker B:So don't, you know, talk down to them, but actually give them access and work with them and work together.
Speaker B:So that's where it's going to be interesting.
Speaker B:But it's kind of like, you know, everything that's old is.
Speaker B:Is new, that kind of thing.
Speaker B:So Here we are 100 years later doing the same thing.
Speaker C:I love that you probably just saw me cheer a little bit there, because when you said parents Know their kids better than anybody is like.
Speaker C:And that's what I help my parents understand when we're talking about homeschooling is like, yes, yes.
Speaker C:You may not have the complete academic language or credentials you need, but you know your child and you can help them learn in so many different ways that other people can't, because, you know, their rhythms, their cycles, their ups and downs, or sleep, their non sleep, all of that stuff.
Speaker A:And you might not know math, but you could bring in somebody who does and plug that in and you might not know this specific thing that they're really interested in.
Speaker A:But if they're really interested in it, then they'll start bringing it in.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:And figuring it out.
Speaker A:So it's like the older they get, the sooner they start, the older they get, the less involved you actually have to be.
Speaker B:Which I believe it.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Mind blowing.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:Then they start making you learn stuff.
Speaker A:It's like, hey, you gotta come see this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's like, stop teaching me.
Speaker A:Yes, I'm the dad.
Speaker B:You gotta unleash them.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Once you unleash them and get them out of these traditional structures and these boxes, they start to show you their inherent genius.
Speaker B:It just comes out.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And if you can get out of the way and.
Speaker A:And not be.
Speaker A:Be thrilled for your kids, because it's like they're gonna get what you didn't have and they're gonna be what you wanted to be.
Speaker A:It's like.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's.
Speaker A:That's really.
Speaker C:So in a micro school, are the parents the teachers part time or are there just actually salaried kind of teachers that are doing everything?
Speaker C:The parents are just super involved.
Speaker C:How does that kind of.
Speaker B:It's a.
Speaker B:It's a mix.
Speaker B:You know, there are homeschool co ops that kind of probably have been working the same way for years, where it's like the parents come in and they do a day or two.
Speaker B:So those are considered micro schools.
Speaker B:But then there's the microschool, where the parents are like, I don't have time to homeschool.
Speaker B:Both of us are working full time.
Speaker B:But we like the idea of a microschool because it seems like a homeschool, smaller and intimate, and the parents get a lot of say in what's going on.
Speaker B:That's run by educators.
Speaker B:And then every state has different rules, whether they have to be credentialed, certified.
Speaker B:A lot of micro schools will run as a homeschool learning center so that they can circumvent some of the requirements from the state.
Speaker B:Essentially a homeschool family would say, we're homeschool family, we're registering with the state, we're taking on the, you know, compulsory attendance, just like any homeschool family.
Speaker B:However, we're going to pay you, as a vendor, said microschool, to actually educate our children.
Speaker B:And so you're essentially creating like an 8 to 3 micro school that's not listed as a school anywhere.
Speaker B:It's called a microschool learning center.
Speaker B:And that allows them to really have a lot more freedom to do what the parents and the educators think are best for the kids.
Speaker A:Okay, so one.
Speaker A:One thing that I would kind of like to say that I see is I was thinking, could we do that here at the school that we have?
Speaker A:And I'm thinking that won't actually work here.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:Because in, in most places where they have micro schools, they're set up and people want to join them.
Speaker A:And so you have parents motivated in a way to join them and, and maybe kids wanting to join them.
Speaker A:But converting a small public school, you will probably have parents who don't want to get involved and who are just meeting things and sending their kids to school.
Speaker A:And that can take away from the microlearning environment.
Speaker A:So it would be more of an effort, a community effort.
Speaker A:But whereas in a, in a, in a, in a larger community where they're created intentionally and people want to join, I could see that having a greater, A greater impact on the students.
Speaker A:And, and so, so, yeah, I just kind of went there in my head because, like, oh, this sounds great.
Speaker A:We can do this here.
Speaker A:And then I started thinking, it's like, you know, some of that, some of that wouldn't work, but, well, there.
Speaker B:So you actually, I mean, you probably could.
Speaker B:And this is where I think it's gonna be interesting the next few, you know, three to five years is, like I said, is the size of the microscope what makes it magical?
Speaker B:Or is it like the teachers and the parents?
Speaker B:And it's probably a little bit of both.
Speaker B:Like, taking away the big factoring model nature of a school solves a lot of problems right now.
Speaker B:So I think you said there's like 40 kids or whatever, so.
Speaker B:Or 20.
Speaker B:It's a small number of kids.
Speaker B:So if you could find like, a really great educator, and maybe not all the parents are helping out, but you have a couple that want to come in.
Speaker B:Maybe you have like a retired teacher or grandma's coming in and the parents aren't helping, but you have like, a few really amazing adults that are making that place special.
Speaker B:Then you have that small size plus the amazing adults.
Speaker B:And the formula is the same.
Speaker B:It might just not be the parents choosing it and that kind of thing.
Speaker B:But I think this is what we have to kind of test and try out over the next few years.
Speaker B:Because I'm already getting a lot of phone calls from superintendent saying like, hey, could you come?
Speaker B:Because we help people launch micro schools.
Speaker B:So they're kind of like, could you come and launch a micro school for, you know, fill in the blank, special population?
Speaker B:Like maybe it's like a group of autistic kids or something.
Speaker B:And it's like, we don't really know how to do this.
Speaker B:If you found it a great, found a great educator, maybe he's already in our district, is about to leave.
Speaker B:Would you be willing to do that?
Speaker B:And I'm kind of like, well, I have to really think that through because there's a lot of conditions that I would have to demand to make sure that we don't ruin our brand and what we're really trying to do here.
Speaker B:But you know, but typically we work with educators, families like you said, that want to really jump in and recruit their friends and family and other people.
Speaker B:And they typically have like a very specific theme.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like maybe it's a, you know, we have one in Philadelphia that's right by the convention center and it's an arts based, performing arts based school.
Speaker B:You know, Chicago has a STEAM school and we have one in Denver that's a nature based school.
Speaker B:So there's like these, the passion of the educators and typically they have their own kids so their parents and educators and they're bringing that to the community.
Speaker B:And then there's kind of a self selection process that happens.
Speaker A:Oh, we've been talking about stuff like setting stuff up like that for years.
Speaker A:Like so if a kid is interested in dance, they might not necessarily be good at dance, but that's their passion.
Speaker A:They go to that school, they could work on the costuming, they could work on the musical scores, they could work on the choreography.
Speaker A:They might not be the athletic dancer, but if that's what they're interested in, there's so many avenues to educate them around that if they're interested in sports, you could have sports designed around schools designed around a specific sports so that they're getting the math with their sports that has to do with the sports curriculum.
Speaker A:The, the costume designers, the, the cheerleaders or, and the uniform designers.
Speaker A:And there's so much that.
Speaker A:Because it's not just guys that are interested.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:So it's like yeah, we talked about this for years and about how we.
Speaker C:See you're just ahead of time.
Speaker C:Yeah, here we are.
Speaker A:But again, I'm an idea guy.
Speaker A:Putting that stuff into motion has always been.
Speaker B:That's why you hire me.
Speaker B:And that, that.
Speaker B:So we, we attract a lot of visionaries that have amazing.
Speaker B:Like we had people that are.
Speaker B:So I work with my partner as a CEO and she has to come in and be like, you guys, just take a deep breath.
Speaker B:Because I'll have people call me and say like, I want to do one that's like part time in Nicaragua and part time in Washington D.C. and I have one that where I want it to be in Tahiti and New Zealand and Hawaii.
Speaker B:I had both of these conversations yesterday and we're like, okay, maybe we could do that in year three.
Speaker B:But yeah, so we attract these really visionary people because they really believe that education needs to shift.
Speaker B:And then we put together this whole program where we help you implement your vision with structures and processes and we put it all into place for you.
Speaker B:I'm very visionary and I'm also an ideas guy, but I'm also really good at implementation.
Speaker B:And then my partner is amazing at implementation and taking a vision and implementing it.
Speaker B:So we help you take your big vision and make it really bite sized for your micro school.
Speaker B:And we actually have a basketball coach who's a special ed teacher in Rochester, Minnesota and he's doing exactly what you talked about.
Speaker B:He's gonna, he already has a basketball gym that he does for his youth basketball leagues, you know, his side business.
Speaker B:So now he's gonna have a hybrid microschool where kids can come in and learn about exercise and diet and, and then have like project based learning for all the things.
Speaker B:And most of them are athletes, so they don't, they can't go to school every day because they're doing travel ball and stuff like that.
Speaker B:So I told him, I said, you're going to have that place enrolled in like a week.
Speaker B:Like it's not going to be a problem there there.
Speaker B:Because he only has spots for 28.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because it's a small space.
Speaker B:And I'm like, you're not gonna have trouble enrolling that at all.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:It's funny because we were actually on a podcast with another mom just recently and her son is on, on the spectrum.
Speaker C:And so, you know, he's interested in only specific things and his big thing is tractors.
Speaker C:And she's like, you know, if I just give him numbers, he won't do his math.
Speaker C:But if those numbers are related to a tractor or in the shape of a tractor or in the wheels of a tractor.
Speaker C:Yeah, he's all over it.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I had a student that.
Speaker B:Around the train schedule where they're working.
Speaker A:With farming and tractors.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:And he's gonna.
Speaker A:What is he gonna do?
Speaker B:We have a school in Fort Wayne, Indiana, that's on a maple syrup farm.
Speaker B:50 acres.
Speaker B:So the gentleman owns a farm.
Speaker B:He's a trained PBL educator, and he wants to do.
Speaker B:It's called First Frost.
Speaker B:First Frost.
Speaker B:So it's going to start in February, and the kids are going to be working the farm and doing projects, and it's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker B:I love it all.
Speaker B:It's so exciting.
Speaker C:That is amazing.
Speaker C:And you know, you just mentioned, like, Hawaii and things like that.
Speaker C:It's like, you know, unfortunately, I've heard that their school system is not great over there.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's what I heard.
Speaker C:I would love to have, you know, snorkeling school.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Can you imagine school and.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Nature school in Hawaii.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I could go live and teach on the beach for a while.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That would be okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But we also live up here in the woods.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Underneath Crater Lake.
Speaker A:And the amount of outdoors and bringing people back into nature that we school.
Speaker C:Here would be amazing.
Speaker A:Just tremendous.
Speaker B:Amazing.
Speaker A:And especially because you could, like, have rotating people come in and out for, like, months at a time.
Speaker B:So my.
Speaker B:Currently, I've done several podcasts in the last three months, and it's a 100% of the time the people on the other end are asking me how they can start a microscope school.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Or at least getting excited about it because it's so exciting.
Speaker A:We kind of were already in the process a space here, a health wellness retreat, because again, I. I have brain damage.
Speaker A:So we're going to be getting like, hyperbaric chambers, float tanks, hot cold therapy.
Speaker A:And we're about 45 minutes from the most major town.
Speaker A:So a nice relaxing drive up into the mountains to be able to.
Speaker B:Oh, I love it.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:And then to relax.
Speaker A:And so we're kind of in the process of that.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:That's my part of it, but her part of it is also the community center and the reaching out to the homeschool community and working with them and.
Speaker A:And creating a community garden.
Speaker A:So we've got a lot of stuff kind of.
Speaker B:Oh, I love it in motion.
Speaker A:And it's kind of so funny that.
Speaker A:How it's all just kind of flowing.
Speaker C:Let's get back to our audience.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:What was Our audience, we're in a podcast, Aren.
Speaker C:So if we have a parent who's thinking, I know I need something different for my child, I know that this is not working.
Speaker C:What are some of the key things that you've seen that is a benefit, what the family can do, or what are the key indicators that the child.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Really needs to do this?
Speaker C:Micro school or something different?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I'm not, like, super familiar with homeschool and how, you know, like, I wouldn't say, but I can speak to the microschool side, and then maybe you guys can fill in on the other side.
Speaker B:But what I will say is if you are a homeschool family that's like, I'm ready for my child to be in, like, school most of the day or maybe three or four days a week.
Speaker B:And, like, we're ready to transition, but we don't want to go into a traditional private or public school.
Speaker B:I would say micro schools a place you should consider because, like I said, it kind of marries both worlds, right.
Speaker B:Because it's small and more personalized.
Speaker B:And so it's kind of like homeschool.
Speaker B:I have friends that have, like, seven kids or 10 kids, and I talk to them, and I'm like, they all homeschool.
Speaker B:And I'm like, you sound like a teacher.
Speaker B:But of course, because they have all these different kids, and I'm like, well, this kid likes this, and that kid's like, I'm like, well, you're kind of doing a microscope, your 10 kids.
Speaker B:Anyway, so I would say, you know, the thing that is most important is what, like I said, what is it the child actually needs and what's best for them?
Speaker B:Are they, like, really introverted?
Speaker B:And maybe they're fine with, like, not being with a bunch of kids or even, you know, like, my daughter's very introverted.
Speaker B:She would be fine with, like, a hybrid a couple days a week, maybe half the day in a school and half the day at home.
Speaker B:My son's super extroverted.
Speaker B:He would never want to be homeschooled by himself.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:He'd want, like, at least 10 kids to, like, throw a football and tackle and, you know, jump on and all that.
Speaker B:So you kind of, as homeschool parents are really good at, I imagine, just, you know, really know what your kid needs.
Speaker B:And then if.
Speaker B:What I would say is, if there's not a microscope in your community, then you should think about opening one.
Speaker B:And you can open one.
Speaker B:Either you can do it yourself and, like, figure it all out, or you could Partner up with an educator that is very progressive and alternative and has always wanted to do something like this.
Speaker B:And these are the power teams that I see doing the best.
Speaker B:It's like I'm a mom or I'm a dad that totally understands what my kids.
Speaker B:And I know kids really well, but I'm not sure about all this, like, curriculum stuff.
Speaker B:And then you find an educator that's like, I don't really know all the stuff about parents and this and that and maybe the business side, but I know how to teach kids a of lot all these different subjects.
Speaker B:And so they, they partner up.
Speaker B:And the educator's so happy because they get to do what they want to be doing.
Speaker B:And the parents are happy because their kids are happy and their friends kids are happy.
Speaker B:And so it works out for everyone.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:Yeah, and that's kind of what was happening a little bit.
Speaker C:Kind of like back in Covid and stuff, when things were right.
Speaker C:Pods and stuff were showing up.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Individual families would hire a teacher who wasn't in the public school system anymore.
Speaker C:It's like, come teach my kids kind of thing.
Speaker C:I mean, it was not exactly what you're doing with the micro schools, but, you know, that kind of like the.
Speaker B:Beginning, probably that's what propelled micro schools.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:They just blew up after the, like, pandemic pods.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Especially because parents were like, looking at what was actually being taught.
Speaker A:And it's like part of it was like, I don't want that.
Speaker A:And part of it was like, that's all they're doing.
Speaker A:I can do better.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:So there's.
Speaker A:There was all sorts of it.
Speaker A:And so lots of reasons to be moving out of the education system.
Speaker B:It's a big wake up call.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Lots of reasons to be moving out of the education system.
Speaker C:And so people like me, teacher who's like, near her, the end of her career, I still wanted to teach, but I was so fed up with everything that was going on inside the school, not being able to really reach my kids the way I want.
Speaker C:I mean.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I tried to talk her into micro schooling, but she was just, she was done.
Speaker A:Done by the time.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, you needed a break.
Speaker B:You need a breather.
Speaker C:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker C:But one of the things that I was thinking about was that, oh, man, you blew me off my, my thought there.
Speaker C:Oh, I don't know.
Speaker C:Yeah, we'll have to go somewhere else.
Speaker B:We'll come back.
Speaker C:It's not fun when that happens.
Speaker C:It's not fun.
Speaker C:What else?
Speaker C:So let's see.
Speaker C:Oh, so for Special needs.
Speaker C:Let's look at that a little bit closer.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I mean, is our micro schools best suited for, quote unquote, our normal average learners?
Speaker C:Are they better for our neurodiverse, our special needs children?
Speaker C:What kind of happens with micro schools?
Speaker C:Because I know it's very much dependent on the parent and the teacher, but are there certain kids that maybe do better in this situation?
Speaker B:I think it really depends on the micro school.
Speaker B:But I will say that neurodiverse kids are, I think they're like very, I think it's one of the largest percentage of students that are in micro schools.
Speaker B:Because you think, I mean, it makes sense, right?
Speaker B:You're smiling.
Speaker B:Like, I mean it's, it's like.
Speaker B:Yeah, I, I, I did sub consulting with a Montessori school and I just, I had to quit because I couldn't even stomach what was happening with the kids that had, you know, different learning differences.
Speaker B:So yeah, so I think the micro schools are, are really working well with those kids because they're understanding how to meet them, where they're at, work in tandem with the parents.
Speaker B:You know, parents are spending hours and hours and hours and IEP meetings with advocates and thousands of dollars and it's like, oh, wait, I can pay you for a micro school and we'll work together and you'll see my kid and you'll take care of them and you'll do what they need best.
Speaker B:Oh, and you want me to pay a little bit for like a speed speech therapist?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:You know, like, so it works out.
Speaker A:Oh, but the school system says this and this and this and they're talking about lawyers and they're talking about doctors and, and are you sure?
Speaker A:Micro school?
Speaker A:Because man, this, the education system is like fighting tooth and nail and is scaring me.
Speaker A:What should I do?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And so they end up doing really well in a micro school because it's small and personalized and.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so it's, that's a big population.
Speaker B:I think any community, there's a lot, there's a big population of the black population, like black mothers that are like, we're not doing it anymore.
Speaker B:We're not putting our kids in traditional public school.
Speaker B:It's not working.
Speaker B:So that's a population that's been rising.
Speaker B:And then I think just like anybody who's not fitting into the public school, which I think the high school stat, 75% of kids don't like it in a public high school.
Speaker B:So we're talking about a lot of kids that aren't fitting into the traditional school.
Speaker B:So anyone who's just kind of like, I don't, I'm not the football or the cheerleader, you know, quarterback or the cheerleader, like, this is not working for me.
Speaker B:I don't want to go to school every day and you know, watch, listen to somebody talk in a classroom with 40 kids all day.
Speaker B:And that's a lot of kids.
Speaker B:So I think it works for a lot of them.
Speaker B:And then it depends on the theme and the kind of specific nature of the micro school, whether it works for that kid.
Speaker C:Okay, so then that just totally popped into my brain.
Speaker C:So are the micro schools kind of like age sports specific or are they really the K12, one room schoolhouse kind of thing?
Speaker B:It's a mix.
Speaker B:So it's interesting with our founders, a lot of them come in because their educators, like, I really want to start with like kindergarten, first grade, and then by like month three, they've talked to families, they've started like putting out their vision of self directed learning and like really get meeting kids where they're at.
Speaker B:And they're like, oh, I think we'll do K8, I think we'll do.
Speaker B:And then they stop using grades.
Speaker B:They're like, I think I'll do five through like 14 year olds, you know, so it typically is like a grade almost like Montessori, like an age band where people will be like, I want to do like 5 to 8 year olds or 5 to 12.
Speaker B:Sometimes doing like 5 to 17 year olds off the bat is really hard.
Speaker B:So they'll kind of grow into it.
Speaker B:Maybe they'll start like 5 to 10 year olds and then do 10 to 14 and then 14, 18.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But typically Microsoft's will serve like the whole range.
Speaker B:Like I have a friend in South Dakota who started one.
Speaker B:She was my first client five years ago and hers is currently infants to 16 year olds in rural South Dakota.
Speaker C:Infant to 16 year olds.
Speaker A:You could do that.
Speaker A:I know you could, but, but you think, you think, you think of teaching reading to second and third graders and translating that to high school and that, that, but you could guide them.
Speaker A:Yeah, guide them so easily because you're not going to be teaching high schoolers reading.
Speaker B:Well, my friend was a high school middle school teacher.
Speaker A:You might at first, but hopefully not for very long.
Speaker B:I was gonna say my friend was a high school middle school teacher and she ended up kind of like finding a great Waldorf teacher who had done elementary and they partnered up and then as they grew, she's like, I finally know what I'm supposed to do with them.
Speaker B:Now they're in, like, sixth grade.
Speaker B:But in that first kind of few years, she was just kind of working alongside this gentleman who'd been a Waldorf teacher and worked with that age group, and they did it together, and it worked really well.
Speaker C:Yeah, that is amazing.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And see, that's one of the myths that we constantly are breaking, because people are like, oh, well, you know, yeah, yeah, you can homeschool until seventh or eighth grade.
Speaker C:But then when they get high school, it totally changes.
Speaker C:You can't do high school on your own.
Speaker C:What do you say to those people?
Speaker B:I mean, 75 of kids don't like high school.
Speaker B:So what are we doing?
Speaker B:You know, my.
Speaker B:My daughter and my son.
Speaker B:My daughter's in seventh grade, My son's in ninth grade, and they're already telling me, like, oh, my kid.
Speaker B:My friend wants to leave.
Speaker B:Like, he's been here for a month.
Speaker B:Two months.
Speaker B:What is it, October 28th?
Speaker B:Two months.
Speaker B:Like, I. I want to leave.
Speaker B:My friend wants to leave.
Speaker B:And I'm kind of like, well, yeah, of course they do.
Speaker B:Like, what are we doing in high school?
Speaker B:It's like, okay, well, we have the extracurriculars and the AP classes, But once you take maybe those two things out, it's like, what are we doing, you know, other than the social.
Speaker A:5 minutes wasting time.
Speaker A:10 minutes of trauma, 45 minutes of.
Speaker B:Wasting time, Bullying, trauma, listening to teachers drone on.
Speaker B:I went to the.
Speaker A:And then you go home.
Speaker B:And then I went to the.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:It's like an open enrollment school where my son goes.
Speaker B:So I thought they would be putting on a dog and pony show when the parents came to visit in the spring.
Speaker B:Oh, they.
Speaker B:They weren't.
Speaker B:So I walked into classrooms, and it was like 40 kids, seven of them sleeping, and the teachers is talking.
Speaker B:I'm like, aren't you embarrassed?
Speaker B:All these kids are sleeping and on their phone and they didn't even care.
Speaker B:I'm like, this is so sad.
Speaker B:Like, what are we kidding me?
Speaker C:I was, oh, I haven't heard that was that bad yet.
Speaker B:40 kids.
Speaker B:You know, as a former principal, I kind of look for engagement and what's going on.
Speaker B:I was there probably about five that were engaged, and it was like 10am on a Thursday.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:Wow, wow, wow.
Speaker A:I drove public bus for a while.
Speaker A:Like, some people, you can't reach some people.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:So you do have to focus on the ones who actually want to be there.
Speaker A:And again, this is kind of why the micro school concept is.
Speaker A:Is so important and is so valuable.
Speaker A:And again, future leaning.
Speaker A:Because you're going to find places where you want to be instead of where you have to be.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, yeah, so many 75% of the kids don't want to be there.
Speaker A:Why would they even try?
Speaker A:They're not being heard, they're not being listened to, they're not being seen, they're not being valued as human beings.
Speaker A:They're shuffled through this process where even their parents seem to not care most of the time.
Speaker A:And if they do, they can't reach them anyway.
Speaker A:That system is so broken and it's.
Speaker A:It hurts my heart so much.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker A:And because, because she, she fought for it for 27 years.
Speaker B:Oh, I know you did.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:I've met so many teachers like you that.
Speaker B:Well, and interestingly enough, the system isn't broken.
Speaker B:It's actually designed to do exactly.
Speaker B:It's doing exactly what it was designed to do, which is to batch, factory, model, separate, sort them out, you know, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker B:And so that's why we need a new system.
Speaker B:And so I always talk about we need a new operating system because we have amazing teachers like Christina that are doing amazing things in spite of the system.
Speaker B:Why don't we create a system where they don't have to work against it, but they can work with it?
Speaker B:Like a micro school where they can just like let their genius just be amazing with kids and change kids lives and the parents are happy and the kids are happy and you have on a whole new system.
Speaker C:Yes, exactly.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker C:So is this something that you have to start at like typically the beginning of the school year?
Speaker C:So like you said, you have some friends, like October, their kids are hating it already.
Speaker C:Can you pull them out right now and get them into a micro school or start a micro school homeschooling?
Speaker C:Of course you can pull them out anytime and you can put them back anytime.
Speaker C:It is very, very fluid and flexible according to the family.
Speaker C:How does Microsoft kind of work?
Speaker B:Similarly, you know, interestingly enough, we actually had a hypothesis, you know, with our first cohort of Microscope founders that we would have to have all families come in August or September.
Speaker B:You know, and what we learned very quickly is that there's a huge influx of micro school families that come in in January.
Speaker B:And so now we're doing, we're going to do a cohort that launches in August and a cohort launches in January.
Speaker B:Like, why are we waiting a whole year to launch a cohort?
Speaker B:Like there's families that are waiting and just kind of like, what don't make me wait a whole nother year.
Speaker B:I'm ready to go right now.
Speaker B:So, yeah, So I think it's very flu.
Speaker A:Wait till the end of the semester so their kids can get their grades and maybe.
Speaker A:Maybe turn it around.
Speaker B:I understood.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so, yeah, January is huge.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:One of the things that I.
Speaker A:It's like that homeschool is like really great at.
Speaker A:And it's like you can go to school in the summer and then take winners off if you're really into winter sports.
Speaker A:It's like, you know, you don't have to be the August, September to July.
Speaker A:You could have a month here, three weeks there, and you pick it up and you move when you need it and when your children are ready for it.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:Force prescribed this book, this page, this test, this day, this age.
Speaker A:It's your birthday, it's this test, you know, whatever.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:That, that, that changes and it.
Speaker C:And it be the micro schools kind of flexible like that or.
Speaker C:But yeah, there's a teacher that's kind of directing it.
Speaker B:Very flexible.
Speaker B:Like I said, our founder in Indiana is starting in February.
Speaker B:He wants to start with the first frost.
Speaker B:So he's really following the land, not the district calendar.
Speaker A:So you're an awesome teacher.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:In this situation, if you had 20 to 30 kids across ages that weren't there all at the same time.
Speaker C:Micro school.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:That were all there at the same time.
Speaker C:Okay, there we go.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And some of them, how would you handle that?
Speaker A:What would tell them?
Speaker A:No homework while they're gone.
Speaker A:Be ready to pick it up when you get back.
Speaker A:How would you, as a good teacher.
Speaker C:Go learn wherever you're going.
Speaker C:So I can.
Speaker B:Learning happens all the time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So how would you answer that question?
Speaker C:That's exactly how I'd answer it.
Speaker B:Well, and the other interesting piece is I had a somebody call me a couple weeks ago who said, we're traveling.
Speaker B:This is becoming very popular, especially with the millennials.
Speaker B:We're traveling with our 7 and 5 year old across the world.
Speaker B:And so would you help me open a micro school in Spain where I could be here for six months and we could sort of have like a micro school for all the traveling millennial parents that have kids and they come here and then we all go to, you know, Italy for six months and it's just like a traveling micro.
Speaker B:I said, absolutely, we can do that.
Speaker B:Wait till next year, because we're just getting started.
Speaker B:But yes, we can definitely do that.
Speaker B:So that's on our radar too, those kind of creative ideas.
Speaker C:Oh, that sounds like, so much fun.
Speaker A:Yeah, we help parents kind of plan stuff like that.
Speaker A:Like, oh, you're going to this cities, like, what kind of architecture are you going to see there?
Speaker A:What kind of parks are going, what kind of zoos are going to be there?
Speaker A:You know, happened in this town.
Speaker A:So instead of like reading it in a book, you can say, hey, look, this happened here.
Speaker A:So history comes alive.
Speaker A:So there are, there are curriculum, traveling curriculum, I'm sure put together.
Speaker A:It's like, okay, kids, we're going to go to this town.
Speaker A:What's this?
Speaker A:What's this?
Speaker A:What's this?
Speaker A:What are we going to go look at?
Speaker A:What are we going to do while dad's doing this, while mom's doing that?
Speaker A:We're doing.
Speaker A:So, yeah, that's amazing what you can do with, with motivated, interested parents.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So is there anything that we haven't talked about that you're like, thinking, okay, when I get on the podcast, if I get to talk about this, this is kind of what I really want to make sure I get out there or help the families understand?
Speaker B:I don't think so.
Speaker B:I think the most important thing is really finding what's.
Speaker B:I think we talked about this.
Speaker B:Like, what's.
Speaker B:Finding what's the best fit for your kid?
Speaker B:I mean, you know, like in Indiana, for example, they have a rule that if your child's homeschooling or going to micro school, they can play on the high school sports team.
Speaker B:So I think we have to kind of like, undo a lot of these traditional kind of, we've always done it this way kind of things.
Speaker B:It's like, why don't we let them play sports?
Speaker B:Why does it matter?
Speaker B:You know, like, if they're in the, in the neighborhood and they would go to that school, why can't they play on the sports team?
Speaker B:It's like, oh, because he's too good, or, oh, because he didn't.
Speaker B:He's not having to suffer through public school all day so he can't play on the basketball team.
Speaker B:It's like, no.
Speaker B:So I think there's going to be a lot of interesting things like that.
Speaker B:And I think the other piece that we didn't touch on as much as, like, the policy kind of implications of what's happening with vouchers and education savings accounts.
Speaker B:So you're starting to see the lawmakers say, like, wow, the pandemic happened.
Speaker B:Parents aren't happy, educators are fleeing the profession, so we need to start creating policies that actually mirror that problem.
Speaker B:And so something like 24 states in the last year or two have passed some sort of legislation like tax credit, voucher, savings account, where the money is literally following the kid wherever he's, he or she's going.
Speaker B:So I think that's an interesting development.
Speaker B:I think it's only going to continue to improve and, or, you know, more and more money will be coming directly to the kids because the school district is not entitled to that money.
Speaker B:So I think that's going to be a real interesting place where families are going to be really empowered.
Speaker B:Like they're going to have like in Arizona you get a debit card with anywhere from 8 to $20,000 on it, depending on where your kid goes to school and whether they have a special education designation.
Speaker B:So if you have a kid with, you know, multiple special education services or whatever, you get $20,000 and take that right to a micro school and say, here's 20 grand.
Speaker B:Let's figure out how we're going to educate this kid together.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I think we covered all.
Speaker A:Really looking forward to Oregon getting there.
Speaker A:We'll probably be one of the last days.
Speaker B:Yeah, same with California.
Speaker B:So any of the kind of.
Speaker B:Yeah, this is going to take a while, but, yeah, I think, but it's going to happen.
Speaker B:And there's already talk about federal legislation.
Speaker B:They put a little tax credit in the latest, one of the latest bills.
Speaker B:So it's going to happen.
Speaker B:It's controversial, but I think it's going to be something that comes.
Speaker B:And the most important thing that I always share is if you are a parent, family, or even a student who's like, I want a microschool.
Speaker B:You can totally do it because it's smaller.
Speaker B:It's, you know, there's, you can find a location because it's like, I need a 2,000 square foot space.
Speaker B:Okay, well, Amazon closed down all those spaces, right?
Speaker B:So we have all these open retail spaces.
Speaker B:We have these old yoga studios, we have old Montessori preschool.
Speaker B:We have all this space sitting everywhere that people want to rent out to you.
Speaker B:So it's not hard to find the space.
Speaker B:We have families just begging for you to do it.
Speaker B:We have kids that are just like praying that you would do it so they can get out of the system.
Speaker B:And not everybody can homeschool.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because it's not, it's not always possible.
Speaker B:So it's just another alternative.
Speaker B:And if you're like, I'm really excited about doing a microscope.
Speaker B:That's literally why the organization I started exists, so that we can accelerate our visions to have a hundred of these in the Next five to seven years so that we can accelerate this, have all different types across the country and the world and say, like, hey, this is what.
Speaker B:This can be done.
Speaker B:It's totally possible.
Speaker B:We have happy kids, happy families, and it's exciting time.
Speaker C:That is amazing.
Speaker C:I love that vision.
Speaker C:One thing I want to jump back to really quick.
Speaker C:When you're talking about our kiddos with our IEPs and special needs, that debit card you said that it has, like, more on it.
Speaker C:One thing I want to remind parents is that remember every single therapy that your child needs, speech therapy, etc.
Speaker C:If it's not covered under medical insurance now you can weave it into their school day through these funds and things and make sure the child is getting exactly.
Speaker C:And they get the time of the day when they are most receptive to it.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So instead of having to do it after school after they're already worn out, you get to do it during the day when they're ready to learn.
Speaker B:That's great advice.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker C:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker C:Awesome.
Speaker C:David, this has been such an enlightening conversation.
Speaker C:Thank you so very, very much.
Speaker C:It is amazing to have someone else out in the world out there thinking along the lines that we're thinking that it really is possible.
Speaker C:And really, I want to encourage our families who are listening.
Speaker C:Take this as another one of those signs.
Speaker C:If you've been thinking about it, if it's something that's in your heart that your child isn't doing well in their public school school, search for those alternatives, whether it's a micro school, whether you do do homeschool, whether it's all of those things.
Speaker C:Now you're interrupting me again.
Speaker C:I'm just kidding.
Speaker C:You know, just really think about you and your child and your family and make it great for them because they are our future and we need them to be happy, healthy, and successful now, not later.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:And David, I would like to thank you.
Speaker A:We talked about stuff like this for years, but we never figured out how to put it into.
Speaker A:Into motion.
Speaker A:And so here.
Speaker A:Here we are now, and it is available and it is happening.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And we didn't have to do it.
Speaker C:Yay.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:That's the greatest part.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:But we now get to talk about it and we might get involved.
Speaker A:And so there's so many possibilities now.
Speaker A:So thank you for being here.
Speaker A:Thank you for.
Speaker A:For doing what you do.
Speaker A:Thank you for.
Speaker A:For leading the way.
Speaker A:And like we talked before, all of the ones that you said, public schools up front were actually charter schools that public to make it more, more palatable to people at that time, but.
Speaker A:At that time, but.
Speaker A:So thank you for leading the way for so, so many years and coming to the point where, where this is happening now because I know it hasn't been easy because we've been fighting it from the other side.
Speaker A:So thank you for doing the work.
Speaker A:Thank you for getting it to this point.
Speaker A:Thank you for being the person who actually stepped up and did it.
Speaker A:Because so many people talked about it.
Speaker A:We did.
Speaker A:And we're, we're doing it from a different way, but your way is like really excellent as well.
Speaker A:So thank you for.
Speaker B:Oh, thank you sharing it with us.
Speaker B:I appreciate it.
Speaker B:I've enjoyed every, every second of our conversation.
Speaker B:So thank you so much.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And of course, everything will be down the show notes, but I want you to say it out loud for those people who are still listening, still here.
Speaker C:How do they get a hold of you?
Speaker C:Where do they find you?
Speaker C:Website, et cetera.
Speaker C:We want to make sure that's out there.
Speaker C:Voice as well as in text.
Speaker B:Yeah, very simple.
Speaker B:ChangeMakereducation.com, one word.
Speaker B:Everything's on the website.
Speaker B:So if you want to find us, just go there and you can fill out a little form and I'll reach back out to you.
Speaker B:I read every single one of them and I'll reach out to you.
Speaker C:Excellent.
Speaker C:Yes, awesome.
Speaker C:Thank you so very, very much.
Speaker C:And so, audience, you know what to do.
Speaker C:Share like and review.
Speaker C:Make sure this is episode is getting out there so David's vision can grow, our vision can grow, and your family can be the next level up in your vision of what your family is really meant to be.
Speaker C:Thank you for being here.
Speaker C:Thank you for listening and until next time, bye for now.
