Within Judaism, many believe that if you study the Torah, do good deeds, and give to charity, you can be assured that you are in right standing with God—but the Tanakh indicates otherwise! In this week's episode of Our Hope Podcast 🎙, we are going to dig deeper into the Hebrew Scriptures and modern Judaism to answer the question, "I'm Jewish, so why do I need Jesus?" Listen to this episode now! 🎧

Welcome to Our Hope,

a production of Chosen People Ministries.

On this podcast you will hear inspiring testimonies,

learn about Messianic apologetics and discover

God's plan for Israel and you.

Wherever you're listening, we hope you lean in,

listen closely and be blessed.

Within Judaism today, there is an understanding that,

though there is no longer a

Temple, a Levitical priesthood, or sacrifices for sin,

there is still atonement.

If someone studies the Torah, performs good deeds,

and gives to charity,

they can rest assured that they are in right standing with God,

and there is no need for any other means of salvation.

In the first episode of this sea we answered the question, “I’m

so why do I need Jesus?” Today, we are going to dig deeper

into the Hebrew Scriptures and modern Judaism

to answer the question, “I’m Jewish, so why do I need Jesus?

To help us answer this question, we have invited Ryan Karp,

who is our Assistant

Midwest Regional Director and serves in Chicago.

I now introduce the host of Our Hope Podcast, Abe Vazquez.

Ryan Karp, it is so good

to have you on Our Hope in the what is it

now, 13 months, 14 months that we've had Our Hope.

I can't believe you haven't been a guest on this sooner!

And so I apologize on behalf of Nicole for not inviting you

Hey, guys, I actually have been a guest.

Yeah, I was interviewed by Dr. Glaser

No way.

In the middle of the pandemic last summer,

absolutely. Abe: That is an unreleased episode.

Oh, behind the scenes. Abe:

That is an unreleased episode. You're absolutely right.

Well, we need to go

into the vault and find it and then maybe just delete it.

I think it's on YouTube.

Yeah, it is.

Oh, was this for like Moving Forward in Hope, maybe?

Yeah, I think it was a

part of that and he also did a long form interview.

Interesting. Abe: Very interesting.

I love to listen to that and find it.

Well, this is the first time

in 15 months I've interviewed you, sir.

So either way, we're really excited to have you here

Thank you.

What was it?

I'm trying to remember what was the first time you and I met?

Do you remember? Ryan: I don't know.

I think your beard was smaller and your muscles were bigger.

I don't- It's been years.

Yeah, it's been at least three, four years, five years.

Oh, well, I've been part of CPM for six years. So,

yeah, definitely a long time.

But I appreciate you, brother, for being here and

saying yes to this.

Every guest, when we bring them for the first time,

we have to ask a very deep theological question

for them to answer.

So just get ready for this one.

What is your favorite food? Ryan: Tex Mex.

Sorry, Tex Mex. Without a doubt.

I love going to Texas. Abe: What is it about Tex Mex?

It's the spice. It's the cheese.

It's all about the cheese.

That is awesome.

Well, it's been a year, right?

You know, it's been a really tough year.

2020 is the I think we're going to have PTSD

anytime we hear the word 2020, the numbers 2020.

You go to a check out and your total comes out to $20.20.

You're going to have a little twinge.

You know, it's been rough.

So can you maybe share a little bit about,

first of all, what you do at CPM at Chosen People Ministries,

and some of the updates,

some of the things that have happened to you

in your ministry?

Sure. Absolutely.

So I'm the Chicago Branch Director and the Associate

Midwest Regional Director.

So we have a number of really wonderful staff that work here

with us in the Midwest from Minneapolis

to Pittsburgh and especially, obviously, the Chicagoland area

I work with a number of guys here in Chicago.

And one of the things that we do is we have a service

going on regularly in the city of Chicago,

specifically for Christians who want to reach their Jewish

friends with the gospel and that is so much fun,

to be surrounded by like-minded people

who will then in turn, bring their Jewish friends.

And the reality is,

we're the only Jewish testimony in the city proper of Chicago.

Wow. Ryan: But since the pandemic,

obviously things changed

quite a bit, a lot of our ministry went online,

but then we even figured out that we could do

some neighborhood ministry going door to door, giving some

some of our websites out

door to door, and then interacting

with them on the chat that we've set up.

And I've I've been speaking with a number of Jewish

people and Christians who want to reach their Jewish friends.

So it seems to be working.

We've seen people come to faith. We've seen people immersd.

And now, as Chicago is opening back up, it's more fun,

I got to be honest.

Yeah. Ryan: And we're going to continue

doing some of the stuff that we started during the pandemic.

That's awesome to hear.

So thanks for catching us up with your ministry.

It's really good to

to see what's been happening over the past 15 months.

It's been hard. It's

been difficult. But

I'm really, really

encouraged to hear stories like you just told.

And so let's jump into today's topic.

So I have a question.

What was it like for you growing up?

Describe your home.

So my upbringing was one where I grew up in

a mixed marriage household.

It means that I had one Jewish parent

and one non-Jewish parent.

It wasn't really a spiritual religion,

it was more cultural than anything else.

December was amazing because,

frankly, Hanukkah and Christmas, I got both of them.

Then we also did Passover and Easter.

And I wouldn't say that I really understood

why we did almost any of them.

I just knew that this is something that we did.

I didn't realize that the Yiddish words

that my father was saying to me, other kids might not know.

You know, I didn't realize that not everybody ate bagels

and lox and chopped liver.

I love chopped liver.

You know, I didn't realize that

not everybody mourned the way that we mourned

when a loved one died wearing a yarmulke

and sitting shiva. Yeah.

So even though we were cultural and not spiritual,

we still sort of did Jewish things.

Like the best french toast is still challah french toast.

You know, you don't

just take a piece of wheat and throw it in some egg, you know.

But that's sort of how I grew up. Occasionally

visiting the synagogue with my dad, probably when

he felt guilty for not going.

Not going to church, that's for sure,

but sort of irreligious until my father was

when I was about eight and a half or nine

when my father was invited by a Christian colleague

to hear a Chosen People Ministry's missionary

and we didn't know what that was, obviously, talk about how

how Passover not only reminds us of what happened in Egypt,

but also foreshadowed what Jesus would do as the

the Messiah of Israel and the entire world.

And my father's jaw hit the floor, but

he tried to prove the man wrong.

And over a few months he couldn't do it.

And he gave his heart to

the Lord and he accepted Yeshua Jesus as his Messiah.

And so after that, we started

attending a Messianic congregation where

I was surrounded with other kids like me, products

of Jewish Jewish or Jewish Gentile marriages.

We were getting bar and bat mitzvahed, you know,

and saying things in Hebrew, singing Jewish songs.

And so that became sort of our identity as Messianic Jews.

From the age of nine on.

Well, let's go back a little bit.

So before that experience happened and by the way,

to those listening,

if you listen to our past episodes, you've

heard Ryan's father before, Dennis Karp,

give not only his testimony, but also talk with his wife.

Just talking about their life and experience.

So little bit more context

if you want to listen to those episodes.

We'll put that in the show notes or something.

I know the episodes by heart. Abe: Oh, there you go

Yeah, he's on Yeshua in Yom Kippur,

he's on the Olive Tree Marriages episode, and he's on

I think it's Passover in the New Testament.

And that's why Nichole's our producer.

Wow. That wasn't even in our notes.

That was awesome.

She's also the personified version of the archives.

Very good. I'm impressed.

So before we get to that point of where you had that encounter

of Jesus is who He was, according to Passover. Right.

What was the name to Jesus to you personally?

Oh, well, that's a good question,

because in my house, the name of Jesus, it wasn't a no no.

But it wasn't just it just wasn't talked about.

If I heard the name Jesus, it was usually in conjunction

with Christ and said as an expletive.

But that wasn't even that often.

So Jesus wasn't a big deal to me. And we didn't

celebrate Christmas as His birth and Easter, you know,

I may have understood or heard about a resurrection,

but since it wasn't something that we talked about regularly,

I didn't even think about it.

It wasn't until after my father accepted Jesus that

I actually accepted Jesus when I was about 10 years old,

because I was watching one of those cheesy

Christian cartoon videos

about how the Apostle Paul went around sharing the gospel

and I was amazed at what he was willing to endur

because he thought the message

that he was sharing was worthwhile. Abe: Wow.

Beaten, you know, lowered over a wall in a basket, all

because he knew that the message would change people's lives.

So I was I was nine when that happened. Nicole: Yeah.

I think what's so powerful about Paul, too, is that

he shows us that you can be Jewish and believe in Jesus.

You know, he was a Pharisee.

But a pretty common idea

in both Jewish and some

Christian circles is that Jewish people can't be Jewish

if they believe in Jesus.

Why do you think that is?

Yeah, I've I've heard that a lot.

It's funny because you get it from both sides.

Yeah. You know, the Jewish side says, oh, you know,

you can't be Jewish if you've changed your faith

and the Christian side says, oh, now you believe in Jesus,

you're no longer Jewish.

And I find that so amusing, because if you're born in Italy

or if you're born in Nigeria,

you can't stop being Italian or Nigerian

when you come to faith in Jesus,

so why in the world would that be the case with being Jewish?

And I think that's

that's the fundamental misunderstanding. First,

you are Jewish by birth.

You are Christian by belief.

It just so happens that there is a faith that accompanies

being Jewish by birth.

But frankly, what you see across the across

the spectrum of Jewish people is that you

can believe almost anything

unless it's Jesus. Right?

That's really the line you cannot cross.

So that's the second thing.

It's the first it's

the misunderstanding of what makes a Jewish person

descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob Jewish by birth

But the other hand is it's that one thing that you can't cross.

It's Jesus because they

think you've gone into another religion.

And yet, frankly,

there's nothing more Jewish than believing in a Jewish Messiah.

And when Peter was giving his sermon in Acts Chapter 3,

he didn't only say repent, he said repent and return

to his Jewish audience, which means he thought that

this was in accordance with what God had always wanted

So, you know, I think it's a fundamental misunderstanding

of what makes a Jewish person and there's a spiritual thing

there where it's just Jesus, you can't cross that line.

We'll be right back.

Shalom, I'm Mitch Glaser,

president of Chosen People Ministries.

Is it possible for Jewish people to believe in Jesus

when there's such a sad history of Christian antisemitism

that has shaped Jewish attitudes towards the gospel?

Well, I know there's hope

because I'm Jewish and I believe in Jesus.

And I would love to offer a few suggestions

for reaching Jewish people personally

with the love of God through Messiah.

First, keep your message personal.

You're representing a person, not a religion.

Second, be loving, patient and kind even when they object.

And then finally, and most importantly, pray,

touching the heart of your Jewish friend

with the good news of

Messiah will also touch the very heart of God.

And you can learn more by visiting Chosen

People Ministries at chosenpeople.com/radio.

During these difficult times,

we know how hard it is to hold on to hope,

and we want you to know that Chosen People

Ministries is here for you.

If you have any prayer requests, our prayer team is standing by

to receive them.

You can submit your request at chosenpeople.com/pray again

that's chosenpeople.com/pray.

So for our listeners who may not be familiar

with Judaism, I know we're in our sixth season,

we've where I don't even know what episode where on now.

Episode nine.

Well, episdoe 59, right? In total. Nicole: 59

Yeah, we've talked a lot about Judaism.

We've talked a lot about Christianity.

We've talked a lot about Messianic Judaism.

We've talked about a lot of the the connections. Right?

But for those who are not

familiar, can you explain briefly what the core beliefs

are, especially about salvation?

Salvation in Judaism, yeah, well, so it's

the easy way to say this is Judaism is a spectrum.

And so anything that I say will not be monolithic.

It does not speak for all Jewish people

because there are Jewish people who believe in

traditional Judaism or reform Judaism then there are,

you know, the hidden Jews, the Jews who follow Hinduism

or the atheist Jewish people.

But, to, to sort of boil it down, there is a

rabbi named my Maimonides, the Rambam, Moses ben Maimon,

and he came up with a 13 articles of Jewish faith

and among and usually these are seen as pretty

ubiquitous in Judaism.

But among them are, you know, God is one. God is eternal.

You cannot have other gods.

The Torah was given by God.

You know, this one's interesting

belief in the resurrection of the dead. Nicole: Wow.

Not necessarily of the Messiah, but

of the resurrection in general.

Belief in a Messiah, a belief in divine reward and punishment.

So, I mean, those are some of the 13 articles of faith. OK.

But in relationship to to salvation, I would say that

most Jewish people don't

actually think about salvation, at least

not in the way that Christians think about salvation.

They might think of forgiveness,

but I don't think

they would equate the concept of salvation and forgiveness

because salvation comes across as sort of a more Gentile

Christian concept.

As far as forgiveness goes, though, forgiveness is really

what happens on the holidays of Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur

There is this concept that we sinned against God

and we need forgiveness.

But for most Jewish people, when they attend synagogue,

that's the only time of the year Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur

that they actually think about it, OK.

So, in fact, there's a

there's a prayer that you say during these holidays

called the Al Chet, which is for the sin.

So you recite this thing.

And even at the very end, it says, you know, for the sins

that require a sin offering.

And it's interesting because we can't offer a sin offering.

And yet in the synagogue,

we say this, hey, we're at we're telling you we've sinned and,

you know, some of our sins require a sin offering, and yet

we bring no sin offering.

And so what happens after that is you pray,

you give financially or time,

you fast in hopes that you might merit God's grace

and that He might forgive you of your sin at that moment

for the next year or for the previous year, rather.

But then there's really sort of

no assurance that He's actually forgiving you.

But the concept is definitely a works based concept because

we can't bring sacrifices.

So please accept all of these other things in lieu of that.

Right, and from what you just said, Ryan, you mentioned

basically repentance, good deeds

and a life of devotion are kind of the main aspects of Judaism.

So within Judaism, how do these three things

restore someone's relationship with God?

Oh, in the idea of Judaism,

I mean, it's a correct or an appropriate

perspective of God that would bring a Jewish person closer.

So, for example, someone might point to

and this happened to me the other day while I

was sharing with the Jewish man,

he shared with me Genesis Chapter 26,

and it says Abraham obeyed and did everything

required of him, qhich is why God blessed him.

And so he was pointing to that to say, see

an appropriate approach and understanding of God

and the doing of His commands will get us in the right

relationship with Him.

That's essentially it.

So all in that, you have repentance, you have devotion

and if you mess up, well, then you get to Rosh

Hashanah and Yom Kippur and you can make up for it.

We have to do things, you know, also in these holidays, there's

something called the Ashamnu, which means we are guilty.

Where we actually declare, yes, we are guilty.

But it's almost as if by acknowledging this concept

that we are guilty, that we've sinned against God,

that's almost the repentance in and of itself.

But repentance is really

not only acknowledging, but turning back towards God.

And most people, I would say, probably don't

turn back towards God.

They just go to the services

more as sort of an insurance policy if there is a God.

So today I would say devout Jews, devout Jews,

because not every Jewish person works this way,

they base their hopes

on forgiveness from these

three ideas repentance, prayer and the merits.

The, you know, do good works or mitzvot.

So in a way, I, like I said before, only

God knows if their sins are forgiven or not.

They have no idea.

So let's let's

go back to the Old Testament,

let's let's start there for a second.

How was Atonement understood in the Tanakh

or the Old Testament?

Yeah. OK, so I would have loved to be there,

you know, to actually see this.

Atonement was what we would call substitutionary, right?

That's a big theological word.

It means that there was a substitute for you.

So that substitute

would take the punishment, so to speak, that

you deserved instead of you.

And that manifested itself

in the form of the

sacrificial system that was given in Leviticus

so that we could be forgiven of our sins.

It was obvious that we all had sin, but when we had sinned,

depending on the type of sin, there was a prescription,

you would sacrifice this

or you would make this type

of offering, and so that would cover over your sins.

It didn't completely

forgive you eternally. It would just cover over that sin.

So you had to keep making these sacrifices,

keep approaching the temple or the tabernacle.

And then every year at Yom Kippur, that was a big holiday,

because for everything that you didn't confess,

for everything that you didn't

make a sacrifice for, the high priest was responsible

for making atonement for the entire nation.

He was their intermediary where he placed all of the sins

on the scapegoat and

that was supposed to do it for the entire year,

but it didn't stop there because, you know, if you sin

the next day, you had to offer another sacrifice.

Right. Ryan: But it was this this conscious

recognition that God is holy.

I make mistakes, therefore I'm not holy.

So my attention to that sin actually helps me

because that helps me remember I'm not perfect.

So I have to make a sacrifice in the face of an almighty holy

God who still wants to have a relationship with me, at leas

that's how I understand it in the Old Testament.

And Ryan, we know that in the Old Testament,

they knew that the Messiah was going to arrive in the future.

So what did the Old Testament Israelites

believe about the Messiah when it comes to redemption?

The Old Testament.

See, that's that's a hard

question, because there's

the Old Testament believers of God, right?

And then there's the modern Jewish thought of the Messiah.

There are some over overlapping ideas.

In one word, the kingdom,

the kingdom. And I think that's still echoed,

for the most part by modern, devout Jewish people today.

They knew about the Messiah.

They received little bits of information here and there.

They knew that they weren't a perfect nation

and that they needed redemption.

They needed somebody to deliver them partly

from their enemies and partly from themselves.

But they were looking for somebody who would

right the wrongs of the world,

who would defend the Jewish people,

and who would restore God's system of justice.

And they were probably looking for something

that we would consider mystical or magical or miraculous.

They were looking for things like people being healed.

They were looking for things

like people prophesying and having visions.

So this is what they were expecting. And I would dar

say a lot of Jewish people today around the world,

especially the orthodox Jewish community,

are still expecting something like this. Abe: Wow.

It's it's so funny just to hear what the expectation is and to

then look at the life of Yeshua and it's like, guys.

Well, if that's I mean I mean, think about it.

If that's if that's the expectation that

makes sense why so many Jewish

people might not see Jesus as the Messiah. Right?

They don't have the concept that He dies for your sin.

They have the concept that He's a mighty a mighty warrior.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A general

that leads you into battle and brings you to victory.

Now, as a follower of Jesus, I actually agree with that.

I just think that He does it in His second coming,

whereas Jewish people, for the most part,

if they believe in a Messiah, only thinks He comes once. Abe:

So just to clarify, in modern Judaism, is there

any belief that salvation will come through the Messiah?

Do they believe this concept of salvation, of atonement

and all of the things we talked about?

Does that come through the Messiah or is He just

this warrior figure to them?

Well, again,

any of my comments will not

speak for all of Judaism, and I would dare say that

of the roughly 18 million

Jewish people in the world,

most of them are not looking for a Messiah.

In fact, some Jewish people, the not as observant

Jewish people have sort of personified

their own actions, to become the messiah,

we have this concept called tikkun olam,

which means "repair the world".

And for those Jewish people who don't necessarily believe

in the God of the Bible, but maybe He's there,

they think that their own good

deeds will bring goodness to the world,

not even a kingdom, but just bring goodness to the world.

And so instead of a messiah,

they replaced that concept with their own good deeds.

But for the religious Jewish people, I would say, yes,

some are still looking for the Messiah.

They're looking for redemption.

They're looking for

both spiritual and physical redemption.

But the spiritual redemption

doesn't come because He dies for their sins,

it comes because He guides them in an appropriate

approach to God.

And the physical redemption is also the defense

of the Jewish people and the establishment

of a physical kingdom or what we call a Messianic age or

a Messianic era, proper worship and a Messianic kingdom.

Those are really if Jewish people are still

looking for the Messiah, what they're looking for.

Yeah. And speaking of proper worship,

you know, obviously

there is no temple, there's no priests and there's

no sacrifice system today.

So how would you explain the way

that God provides atonement today? Ryan: Jesus,

Always the answer. Ryan: Always the answer

Yeah. You know, obviously you're completely right.

There's a passage in the Old Testament where I've

been pointed to this passage

a few times when I've asked

the same question that you just asked me.

And they say, we offer our lips as bulls.

In other words, we offer the words of our prayers

as if they are sacrifices.

And actually, I kind of like that concept,

but I don't agree that they are sin sacrifices.

I just think that our prayers

are like a pleasing aroma to the Lord,

much like the incense that was offered

in the Tabernacle and in the temple.

But how can you achieve atonement today?

I already explained how they think they achieve atonement.

It's on their own effort.

I realize that I can't do it on my own.

You know, it says over

and over in scripture that the Lord Himself

would achieve justice and salvation for us.

So in my understanding,

He provided the way for atonement. He gave us Jesus

It says, "He Himself

bore our sins in His body, on the cross,

so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness.

By His wounds, you have been healed." 1 Peter 2:24.

"God presented Jesus Christ as a sacrifice of atonement

through the shedding

of His blood to be received by faith." Romans. 3:25.

The only way to cover over our sins is to acknowledge that

we can't cover over our sins.

And then someone is actually available

who will take that from us. Abe: So, Ryan,

you're Jewish. Ryan: Yeah, more or less.

Why do you need Jesus?

I was writing an email to an unbelieving

Jewish man before we got on this

call, and I was trying to explain to him

that Jesus has utterly changed my life.

He has changed me from the inside out

because as long as I was trying to change myself

from the outside in, I was failing miserably.

I was spiraling.

But when I put Him on the throne of my heart

and my soul and my life, which I, you know, don't always do,

but when I do exactly what

I just said, the outlook on the world becomes better.

It's easier for me to love other people

just like He wants us to do.

The works that are so important in Judaism and I do love

good works and good deeds becomes so much easier

because He's changed me from the inside out that I want to d

those good things.

It's made all the difference

in my outlook in life and the way I interact with people.

And because now I get to spend eternity with Him.

And so I want everybody else to know it, too.

And Ryan, if that man were to reply to you and say,

you know what, I'm satisfied with Judaism and just,

you know, doing good deeds and things like that,

what would you say in response?

Well, keep in mind that there is no recipe,

perfect recipe for how to share the gospel,

unlike some of the recipes on CPM's website,

which are perfect and divine or divinely given.

Thank you, Mitch Forman. Ryan: Right.

I would say any number of things. It really depends

on the situation, I might say. That's fantastic.

Jesus was Jewish also, are you interested

in learning more about what

the Old Testament says about the Messiah and about sin

But most people are probably not that willing.

So what I usually do is just start asking questions,

how they're doing, how how their method of Judaism

is working for them, what they actually believe.

And I think you'll find if you ask genuine, gentle,

loving questions, you'll find mostly that people are hurting

and that people don't have the foggiest idea

of what they actually believe.

But the but the concept of becoming a friend to

somebody is super important,

because they not only need to hear the words

of Jesus in the words of the New Testament,

the words of scripture, they also need to see the work

of the Lord in your life.

And those things go hand in hand.

Ryan, thank you so much for joining us.

This was really great and so good to hear from you an

to get your perspective on this.

We really appreciate your time. Ryan: I appreciate it.

It's possible for Jewish people

to believe in Jesus and still be Jewish.

Amen.

“And there is salvation in no one else;

for there is no other name under heaven that has been give

among men by which we must be saved.” Acts Chapter 4:12.

Only in Yeshua can anyone—Jewish or Gentile—find

forgiveness for their sins and direct access to God.

We have salvation because we have put our trust

in the final atoning sacrifice

for all sins, provided by God directly through His Son

For Jewish people who have put their faith in Jesus,

they now have peace

and reassurance that their sins are forgiven,

and that they have been justified before God—not

for what they have done, but because of what Yeshua has done

We hope you have enjoyed Season 6 of Our Hope Podcast!

Throughout this season, we have answered

many common questions on our faith in Yeshua.

We discussed why people need Jesus, if they are morally good

we answered various objections to the person of Jesus,

and other questions about scripture and religion.

We pray that you will be encouraged to take these lesson

and share the good news with your Jewish friends

or family, in a more sensitive and loving way!

Thank you for listening to this week’s episode of Our Hope

featuring Chosen People

Ministries’ Assistant Midwest Regional Director, Ryan Karp.

This episode was co-written and produced by Grace Swee

and Nicole Vacca,

and this episode was edited by Grace Swee.

This episode was also made possible thanks to: Dr.

Mitch Glaser, Brian

Crawford, Neal Surasky, and Kieran Bautista.

Our Hope Podcast will be back

with a brand-new Season 7 in September 2021, so stay tuned!

I’m Nicole Vacca, until next time.

Thanks for listening to

Our Hope. If you like our show and want to know more,

check out ourhopepodcast.com or chosenpeople.com.

You can also support our podcast

by giving today at ourhopepodcast.com/support.