Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

Laura and Xhafer are dealt their best hand yet as they play some Plot Poker with a new box of B5 TCG. Meanwhile, Garibaldi finally gets his ass to Mars to meet his mysterious new employer. Franklin discovers a new way to exploit Lyta in Babylon 5 - Season 4, Episode 16: The Exercise of Vital Powers.

Listener just wanna throw a quick content warning out before this episode.

2

There is a scene.

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With a character experiencing

suicidal thoughts and tendencies.

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So if that is going to be something that

is difficult for you to listen to, know

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that before this episode, skip this one.

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We'll see you next week.

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Hello and welcome to Who Are You?

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This is a Babylon five watch cast

hosted by two former strangers.

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Now, friends, we've gotten to know each

other while we're watching a favorite

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show from their childhood, Babylon.

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Five.

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I'm Jair

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Laura: And I'm Laura,

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Xhafer: and we're gonna

do some plot poker here.

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So let's get some cards ready.

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Laura: so this is a new box, right?

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Xhafer: This is a new box.

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This is uh, shattered Dreams.

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I had a pack of this that I found at

my local, I don't even wanna say it's,

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it's, they do games, but they're

not a local game store, really.

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I think it's, they got

ma current magic sets.

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But they are more like a,

like antique nerd store.

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Laura: Nice.

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Xhafer: Like I had, I.

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Laura: our stuff is antiques.

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Xhafer: I got several Babylon

five action figures there.

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They have like classic trek Migo

figures from the sixties and stuff.

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Tons of old school transformers, tons of

like eighties W W F guys, it's all over.

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And I found that there.

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And I also found this 60 card.

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Cycore expansion

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Laura: Oh my gosh.

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Xhafer: deck, which is

what I will be opening now,

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Laura: Okay.

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Xhafer: Because I have made plans

to go see Walter Koenig in December.

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Laura: Hmm.

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That's right.

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What else did you buy for that?

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Tell the listener.

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Xhafer: I also bought a bester

action figure, which should be

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arriving hopefully tomorrow.

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Well, it won't be tomorrow

because of the holiday, but soon.

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Should be arriving soon.

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Oh there's a rule book in here.

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Laura: Ooh.

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Xhafer: It is 72 pages,

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Laura: Wow.

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Xhafer: so I don't think we'll

be learning to play this game.

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But I opened this bad boy up and the first

card is Aris that I've never seen before.

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Laura: course it is.

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Xhafer: So we've got that

going at the very least.

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Laura: So where is it that

you're going to go see Walter?

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Xhafer: Galaxy Con in Columbus, Ohio.

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Laura: And that's his last scheduled

appearance that we know about.

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Right?

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Xhafer: It is his last scheduled

appearance that is on any kind

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of schedule I could find.

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Oh, there it is.

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The man himself, bester.

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Laura: Yay that needs signed.

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Xhafer: So, yeah, the goal will be to

take that down and get that card signed.

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I'm gonna put Bester in

the arrivals pile here.

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Laura: I got a different, I'm

opening my shattered dreams

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and I got a different bester.

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This is a foiled scheme, but

the picture on it is a Mr.

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Bester himself.

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He's been foiled a time or two.

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I think

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Xhafer: Yeah, he's on

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Laura: some foiling as well.

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I.

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Xhafer: I got a telepathic

scan with him on it being mean.

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Talia

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Laura: Mm.

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Xhafer: a ooh a uh, is this,

I think this is next episode.

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Is this scene?

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I

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Laura: Oh yeah.

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That face looks real familiar.

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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From uh, last episode the

uh, captain from Scrubs.

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Laura: Oh yeah.

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Captain Kelso.

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Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

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Oh, hey, this is also from next episode.

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This is Harlan Ellison.

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Laura: Yes,

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Xhafer: That's fun.

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Laura: we caught that.

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At first, my husband was

like, is that Nathan Lane?

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But we, we both knew

that was not possible.

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Xhafer: There's some good cards in here.

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I mean, from what I know of the game,

which is nothing, there's some good

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cards from what I like to see here.

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I got ]earth.

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Laura: So is Elite a Menari name or title?

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Because I've gotten a, a, an elite

and it looks like Nero to me.

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Xhafer: That is Elite is a title.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Okay.

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That makes sense.

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Shy, elite being like the highest.

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Okay.

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Xhafer: Here's one from season five,

which is just a obey with Bester on it.

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Very, they live.

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Laura: I look forward to

getting to see that scene.

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I'm doing one more pack.

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Xhafer: the badge and the gloves.

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That's a fun card.

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Laura: Mm, we've, we've already

talked about that recently too.

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Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

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Laura: Ha.

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This is very funny.

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Okay.

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You go first.

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Xhafer: I got baby Jeffrey Combs.

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Laura: Oh.

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Yeah, I forgot about him.

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That was pretty early.

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Xhafer: Yes, it was.

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What'd you get?

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Laura: I got the handy dandy micro helper

Gar Valdi uses to trick his way into

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the green and purple drowsy conflict.

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What a funny thing.

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Xhafer: Oh, Talia Winters is in here.

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Laura: Oh yeah.

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That's nice.

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Xhafer: Kelsey, this is uh, of

course uh, Chekhov's Telepath.

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Laura: Uhhuh.

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Xhafer: I'm gonna throw Talia

in one of these piles as well.

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Laura: I got some interesting cards.

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I'm not feeling like this is as much

of a dud as my great war box was.

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Xhafer: Ooh.

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And uh, proximal three.

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Laura: Ooh.

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Relevant to our recent discussions.

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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I got some, I got some

bangers in this pack here.

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I'm gonna open up one pack

real quick just to have that.

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Sweet, sweet.

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A S M R.

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Laura: I gotta open up the card

spreadsheet, which doesn't have

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quite the same audio profile.

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Xhafer: All right, so how this works is

we've opened a handful of packs of the

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old Babylon five collectible card game.

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We've been doing this for,

this is our fourth box.

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Yeah.

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We did a, a deluxe

starter set a great war.

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Laura: To the shadows that,

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Xhafer: and now a shattered dreams.

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And we open these packs and we sort cards

into a handful of piles which represent

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different parts of a arc of an A plot or

a b plot of an episode of Babylon five.

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So we have a.

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Character who is the focus?

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Sometimes this is someone on the station,

sometimes this is an arrival to the

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station, a problem, a solution, and

then a twist, which is just a little bit

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extra to do something with the cards.

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And so we have organized these

shuffled and randomly pulled.

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A plot, which we will now use to

construct the A plot and the B plot

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of a hypothetical episode of Babylon

five, which we will then rate on a

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scale of Babylon's one to five, as

is our prerogative on this podcast.

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So I have the a plot

this time around, Okay,

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Laura: Yes you do.

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Xhafer: cool.

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I, I drew an interesting plot here.

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Laura: Okay.

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Xhafer: It's a very this

is a very concise one.

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This might be the most

concise one I've drawn.

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Laura: Okay.

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Xhafer: So we, we start with Harriman

Gray, who is the aforementioned

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baby, baby Jeffrey Combs

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Laura: Uhhuh.

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Xhafer: arriving on the station.

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What has brought him to the

station is a batch of dust.

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Which is the drug that

turns people into Telepaths.

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Laura: right.

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Mm-hmm.

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Xhafer: Now how he has

been instructed by the sco.

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He's here without bester,

without anyone else.

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When we saw him last, he was

here as a SCO military liaison.

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He has since become a SS cop.

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Laura: Hmm.

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Xhafer: some, he's new to the psyop life.

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He's not as ingrained as psyop,

as Bester or some of the other

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people we see hanging around.

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Bester,

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Laura: A little more sympathetic, huh?

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Xhafer: definitely a little

bit more sympathetic.

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And so the uh, the solution that

is provided to him for this dust

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he finds is the two part slow

poison that Londo used on rfa.

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Laura: Uhhuh.

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Xhafer: claims to have used on rfa.

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And so he has something where he's all

like, Hey, there's this thing in dust.

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When someone interacts with this other

thing that Cycore gave me, it will, you

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know, they'll get sick, they'll come to

MetaLab, we'll be able to find him out.

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Right?

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And he doesn't know that

Bester has lied to him.

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And this is actually the other

half of a poison, the first half

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of which was in the batch of dust.

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Laura: Oh no.

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Xhafer: And so he ends up

killing like 30 people by

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Laura: Ooh,

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Xhafer: this thing.

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It is, it is a bad time.

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And this leads him to

some personal growth.

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This card represents uh, Jaar after his

encounter with dust and Kosh in his mind.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: He's all like, maybe

this is not for me, after all,

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Laura: Yeah,

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Xhafer: and abandons being a psych hop.

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Laura: maybe he'll go rogue later.

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Maybe that'll be a plot

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Xhafer: Pop up in season five maybe.

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Laura: Uhhuh.

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Excellent.

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Xhafer: All right.

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What's our B plot?

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Laura: in the B plot we have a

returning favorite very B plot

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character, which is Brother Theo.

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Xhafer: Ooh.

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Laura: And so Brother Theo and his

monks, you know, they're, they're very

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conscientious, usually as a group, but

religion always has an element where it

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might step on somebody's toes, whether

you mean to or not, shall we say.

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And they're involved in a diplomatic

blender, so they make a mistake.

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There's a conflict with

another race on Babylon five.

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And in order to settle this

conflict, it's getting very heated.

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You know, there's getting

to be like violence,

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uh, suggested against the monks.

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Captain Sheridan actually has to

go and talk to Kosh and say, look,

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you gotta talk to this other race.

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And he draws upon his lon allies.

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Xhafer: Okay.

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Laura: Because, you know,

everyone listens to the VLANs.

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We're at least a little bit

scared of the VLANs maybe.

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Xhafer: Terrified.

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Yeah.

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Laura: So Kosh goes to where there's

a conflict brewing outside the monks

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monastery and says some cryptic

kosh stuff and calms everybody down.

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Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

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Laura: But the twist on the end of the

episode is that the monks are actually

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running an underground resistance

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Xhafer: Ooh.

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Laura: beneath everything else,

and they were very close to

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being exposed by the conflict.

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That happened in this episode.

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Xhafer: Okay.

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This sounds like a good episode.

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Laura: Yeah.

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There's a lot of drama.

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Xhafer: This is a very dramatic

episode, but we also get a brother.

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I love a brother Theo episode.

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Laura: Mm-hmm.

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Bound to be some wise things said

between Brother Theo and Kosh.

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Right.

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Xhafer: for sure.

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I see a little bit of a, like

crossover between the A plot

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and the B plot too, where.

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Maybe the underground reist,

the underground activities

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are smuggling some of those

telepaths out that are unlicensed.

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Maybe Harriman has like some interaction

with Theo and you don't find out until

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the end that they were smuggling telepaths

out and it like adds a layer of drama

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to the other scene that you didn't

know was there on your first watch.

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Laura: Yeah, I like that.

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I love it when this show

does things like that.

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Xhafer: Yeah, I like this episode.

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I would watch this episode.

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I am gonna give, have we given

a created episode of five?

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I don't think we have,

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Laura: don't know if we've given

ourselves a five out of five,

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but I think we should right now.

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Xhafer: right?

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Yeah, I'm here for it.

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Five out of five.

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This is the

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best

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Laura: ding, dinging.

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Xhafer: We've done 11 of these

and this is the best one.

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Laura: Well, a lot of Cycore

drama does it, doesn't it?

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I mean, yeah.

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Speaking of a lot of Sitecore

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Xhafer: core drama.

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Laura: Hey, there's a nice segue

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just laid itself right in

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front of me.

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but What happens in this episode?

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Xhafer: Well, we've got season four,

episode 16, the exercise of vital powers.

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We open on a voice of the resistance

broadcast letting us know that

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there are a couple more smaller

colonies that have been freed.

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There have been more defections

and more atrocities that Clark

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has committed have come to light.

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We go to a voiceover.

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It's Jerry Doyle's turn for a diary entry,

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: this is probably the worst acting

Jerry Doyle does in the entire show.

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Laura: Yeah, you think so?

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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It's bad.

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I, I was taken out of how, how

bad this monologue was acted.

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Laura: Yeah.

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It's very out of character

for Garibaldi anyway.

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Like everything that's been

happening has been a little bit like

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his character really sucks now.

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Xhafer: Well, it's supposed to be.

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Laura: right, right.

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Xhafer: He recaps his thoughts

on Sheridan's campaign.

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Mostly some more power

hungry savior stuff.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Xhafer: I do have a note though.

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It's very interesting that this is

exactly what Nrun was saying of Delaine to

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Laura: Mm.

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Yeah.

313

Mm-hmm.

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Xhafer: hungry savior complex.

315

Like it's, it all lines up a lot and I

thought that was a interesting dichotomy.

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Laura: Yeah, it does.

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It, it is.

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And I remember now this, this

monologue is where he's like,

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Mars tried to kill me three times

before I, I agree with you now.

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But that's, it's a little rough.

321

It's a rough monologue.

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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After this Garibaldi doesn't wanna put

a mask on because he'll look stupid.

324

And, uh, Morrissy says he doesn't care,

but sympathizes, that's the whole joke.

325

I don't, I don't have to do

anything else at this point.

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Laura: I'm surprised that Mr.

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Depe mode is still around.

328

I did not remember him being

a going concern this long.

329

We've had him for, what,

three episodes now?

330

Four

331

Xhafer: A few, he, he's been

in a handful of episodes,

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: so We come back from theme to

me lab where Franklin is still unable

334

to DeShay the Telepaths in Cryos stasis.

335

Lita talks to Zach real quick, a

victim to scan the idea, a thief.

336

And uh, while this is going on, she

hears the shadow while this is going

337

on, she hears the shadow ship noise in

the telepath on the operating table.

338

Who then rises up and they have a

Kirk Spock moment through the glass.

339

He says some shit when he gets up.

340

This is a very difficult scene to watch.

341

Uh, jokes aside.

342

Laura: Yeah, because you don't know

what's going on with these guys and

343

like, how much pain are they in?

344

They're, they're in a non-zero

amount of pain, right?

345

It seems whatever has been done to

their brains is not comfortable.

346

Xhafer: Yeah.

347

No, it's they are they're looking

for the sweet release of death here,

348

Laura: Yeah,

349

Xhafer: is how bad the pain is.

350

Laura: And we don't really

know what's going on with

351

them or if they can be saved.

352

Like we know Franklin

hasn't figured it out yet.

353

Xhafer: he, the way that this guy

is speaking, I got a big vibe of,

354

he does not remember who he is.

355

Laura: Yeah.

356

Xhafer: Like I don't know

that there is anyone to save.

357

Laura: Yikes.

358

Xhafer: Yeah.

359

After the scene we go back to Garibaldi

and his mask is off, so he must be at

360

that ultra-rich business person's house.

361

Laura: With a private doc.

362

Xhafer: With the private doc and

uh, sure enough, he runs into lease.

363

and William Edgars this

is Ephraim Embolist, Jr.

364

Laura: Mm-hmm.

365

Xhafer: Are you familiar?

366

Laura: I wasn't familiar with him from

anything else, but I mean, he has real

367

big, like Ted Turner vibes, doesn't he?

368

Xhafer: So he had a steady job

369

Laura: I believe that,

370

yeah.

371

He's got a voice.

372

Xhafer: he was on 77 Sunset Strip.

373

He was in 173 episodes of that and then

he was in the F B I for 241 episodes.

374

But I know this voice, you are

correct to call out this voice because

375

he had both a major Marvel and DC

character in the nineties in the like

376

the big nineties animation verse.

377

And we had Marvel head Spider-Man.

378

He was Doc ACH in nineties, spider-Man.

379

Laura: Okay.

380

Xhafer: Then in nineties DC animation

through Batman, the animated series, and

381

then appearances in movies and Superman.

382

Occasionally he was Alfred Pennyworth.

383

Laura: Yeah.

384

Uh, He's, he definitely had a big,

long career when I first saw him.

385

I have never seen the show Dallas,

but I think the listeners of

386

our age kind of know of Dallas.

387

Right.

388

And it's not in his creds at all.

389

But I'm looking at this guy and I'm

like, this is how I imagine Dallas

390

would look like somebody on Dallas.

391

Xhafer: Yeah, that's fair.

392

Laura: I don't know anything about it,

but he's got that of a certain time in

393

television, look and sound about him.

394

Xhafer: Yeah, for sure.

395

Garibaldi tells him why he's come.

396

It's more than his own needs

and needing to meet him.

397

He needs someone to stop Sheridan.

398

Laura: Yeah, Garibaldis

got Sheridan on the brain.

399

Yeah.

400

Xhafer: Yep.

401

William compares Clerk's rise

to power directly to Hitler

402

here with a reference to the.

403

Pu I know I pronounced that wrong,

but it is the uh, the night of

404

a thousand daggers or something.

405

Laura: Yeah.

406

He calls it

407

Xhafer: daggers.

408

Uh, that's what it is.

409

The night of the long knives.

410

That's what it translates to.

411

This is when Nazi Brown shirts, which

is the group that would eventually

412

become the Gestapo, killed a thousand

political opponents in sympathizers

413

in Germany over three days.

414

Laura: Yeah.

415

Yeah.

416

So he's implying that something like

that happened on Earth, not just, you

417

know, we didn't just declare martial

law and take over the colonies.

418

We also like killed a bunch of people,

419

like a bunch of

420

political people.

421

Yeah.

422

Xhafer: and Clark did this.

423

Garibaldi makes his case as

to what he wants Edgars to do.

424

Which is make sure Sheridan gets

due process for his insurrection.

425

And then Edgars is like,

what's in it for me?

426

And it is like, well, you

get political gain, you

427

know,

428

but I feel like the exp expect

everyone here just expects

429

Sheridan to lose is kind of the

430

vibe.

431

Like there's no way he's

gonna take down Clark.

432

And I'm just like, y'all, like

Garibaldi of everyone should know.

433

The forces he can bring to

to bear, especially if he's

434

getting paranoid about it.

435

Laura: Edgar can be forgiven for

not knowing, because we know that he

436

kind of knows of the shadows, right?

437

But he doesn't know everything, right?

438

Because we, we know that

Earth was kind of in the dark

439

Xhafer: Yeah,

440

Laura: But Garibaldi

was like there by man.

441

Xhafer: yeah, for sure.

442

Laura: Something's clearly

not right with him, right?

443

Xhafer: Uhhuh.

444

Franklin catches up with Lita and he,

and he's just like, how'd you get that

445

telepath to be awake and not a danger?

446

And she's like, bitch, I'm psychic.

447

Like, what?

448

What do you expect this answer to be?

449

Franklin?

450

Laura: Now I have a

question for huge affair.

451

Do you think a normal telepath or

even, you know, a, a bester level

452

like P 12 can accomplish this?

453

Or is this a Lita only

thing because of her

454

alterations?

455

Xhafer: I think this is a Lita only thing,

and I think that's partially because

456

of her alterations, but more so because

of her experience in the shadow war.

457

Laura: Okay.

458

Xhafer: Because she was taken out

like these pilots, like three or four

459

at a time at one point, so that the

white stars could attack, you know?

460

So she's got experience in dealing

with this type of mind already,

461

Laura: Right.

462

Xhafer: I think that

really helps a lot here.

463

Laura: Yeah, this whole thing

seems very easy for her.

464

Like she's not struggling the way We've

seen her struggle with things before.

465

She's not really breaking a sweat.

466

She's just kind of grappling with

them mentally, but not, she's

467

not gonna pass out afterwards.

468

She's okay.

469

Xhafer: No, she's doing fine.

470

She's got everything's number here.

471

She knows what's going down.

472

She's read the cards.

473

Over on Mars, Garibaldi gets captured.

474

And gets put into a big empty

room with a telepath, presumably

475

Cycore of some variety.

476

Not,

477

not

478

Sitecore Black, but she's got the badge.

479

Laura: No, it would make sense that

uh, Edgars probably has like a Rolodex

480

full of commercial telepaths that he

uses for these kind of loyalty checks.

481

Sometimes make sure nobody's

running off of the company

482

secrets.

483

Xhafer: He's jumbled up and surprised

in order to prevent him from having

484

time to mentally prepare, which I think

is interesting because they make such

485

a stink, like all of the, all of the

anti telepath people in this show.

486

Just every time where it's all

like, you can fool a lie detector.

487

You can't fool a telepath like one.

488

Laura: Mm-hmm.

489

Xhafer: That's a weird stance to take

that on, but two, why does he, why do

490

you care if he has time to prepare?

491

If you can't fool telepath, and that's

the whole point that you're upset about,

492

Laura: Yeah.

493

Yeah.

494

Also, the audacity of this man, Mr.

495

Edgars, to be doing this

496

as, as,

497

we

498

Xhafer: white dude.

499

This is the perfect

time to use cau cassity.

500

Laura: Yes, the cassity of this man.

501

Oh, do you think it could be a

deliberate casting choice with the

502

Xhafer: hundred percent.

503

Oh.

504

Oh, the telepath.

505

Oh, I didn't even think about that.

506

Ooh,

507

Laura: a lady of color that is here.

508

Even if it's not deliberate, there's a.

509

Interesting poetry there that the,

this rich old white man is using

510

her to do his bidding and she

turns out to be very expendable.

511

Xhafer: Yep.

512

Laura: Hmm.

513

Xhafer: Yep.

514

Garibaldi has to answer a

bunch of questions here.

515

Uh, How do you feel about this minority?

516

Where were you on January 6th?

517

Do you love my wife?

518

Pretty standard before you get a

radio show between Hannity and Rush.

519

Laura: Yeah.

520

He passes everything.

521

Except that last question.

522

Xhafer: Mm.

523

Yep.

524

Laura: I don't think he had

to be a telepath to see him

525

not

526

pass this.

527

Xhafer: Very much so.

528

You do not.

529

Laura: Yeah.

530

He's got no like no poker

face when it comes to lease.

531

Xhafer: Edgar tells Lisa otherwise and

says the Garibaldi has moved on and that

532

he had passed and is gonna work here.

533

And then Morrissey kills

the psych hop to commercial.

534

We come back to Lita as

Franklin is testing her,

535

dealing with the shadow paths.

536

This one wakes up and attacks Franklin

putting de cart before the horse.

537

He makes a, he makes a joke about,

538

yeah,

539

I think therefore, yeah,

that's, that didn't land.

540

That's fine.

541

We

542

Laura: yeah.

543

No, I, it just, I'm slow these days, man.

544

It just had to churn through

the brain a little bit.

545

The gears had to start working.

546

Xhafer: Uh,

547

Laura: It's not you, it's

548

Xhafer: yeah.

549

Oh, this is where Lita, this is where

all the, he says all the shit to Lita

550

and Alita prevents his existential crisis

from turning into a suicide at this point.

551

Laura: Yeah.

552

He uh, grabs something

sharp on the nearby table

553

Xhafer: Yep.

554

Laura: and she's gotta

hold him back a little bit.

555

But it's again, not a

big, huge deal for her.

556

But she puts him back to sleep,

so he's gonna be okay for now.

557

He can go back into cryo

stasis as far as we know.

558

Xhafer: Yep.

559

Over on Mars, a bunch of white dudes

talking about being afraid of becoming

560

second class citizens to a minority.

561

Uh,

562

Laura: my God.

563

Yeah.

564

Xhafer: know, thinking about your

comment earlier, and their big argument

565

here is one that can hide amongst the

populace is what makes this minority

566

so scary compared to other ones.

567

Laura: Oh yeah, the other ones, we

can see it on their face and their

568

skin and yeah, this whole thing

is just creepy as hell, right?

569

Xhafer: Bits aside, this is, this,

this hit hard Nobody takes power.

570

They are given power is a

condemning statement on complacency

571

during political upheaval.

572

And then he throws out some tights and

some locations, including the Russians

573

in 2013, which by the way, Putin in 2012

is when he seized power and did the whole

574

switcheroo with the president and the.

575

Prime Minister in order to stay in

power and circumvent their constitution.

576

Laura: Oh, I did.

577

You know, I thought about that.

578

I thought, huh, that's funny.

579

I didn't go do good.

580

Any Googling about dates?

581

Xhafer: Yeah.

582

Yeah.

583

It was in 2012, so he would've

584

' cause the election takes place before,

585

Laura: Babylon five calls it again,

it called Scott Adams craziness

586

and now the Russian situation.

587

Yeah, I, I don't want to know

what's supposed to happen in

588

two years with the Iraqis.

589

I'm a little worried about that.

590

Xhafer: uh,

591

Laura: Then the French,

592

Xhafer: yeah.

593

I mean the French I've seen, we,

I've seen, I've seen the French

594

wheel out the guillotine at least

twice in my lifetime already.

595

No one's gone in yet, but they keep

the marette the ready, apparently.

596

Laura: Yeah, well, we probably won't

597

Xhafer: Eh,

598

Laura: I hope it's

599

Xhafer: I will be old as

600

Hopefully, if I am alive in 2112.

601

It's because of miracle science

and not depressing science.

602

Laura: Hopefully we're just like

uploaded into avatars at that point.

603

I wanna be in an avatar if

604

Xhafer: I've seen San June Appar.

605

That didn't look that bad.

606

It's the one happy episode

of Black Mirror um, ish.

607

I guess you talk about it on the Discord.

608

We're not gonna get into that right now.

609

Um,

610

Laura: Sure.

611

Xhafer: Edgar Recounts Clark's rise

to power through his perspective.

612

He's upset about using aliens and

telepaths, not that he seized power.

613

He makes that very clear distinction.

614

Laura: yeah.

615

Yeah.

616

Well, I mean, he's pointing out too,

it's so funny because the whole time,

617

like Edgars is a giant hypocrite, right?

618

But he's also pointing out Clark is

a, a hypocrite because he's like,

619

he played on our fear of aliens and

then he got the aliens to help him.

620

Xhafer: Meanwhile plotting what

he's plotting for Telepaths.

621

Laura: yeah.

622

It's just like, oh my God.

623

It's, it's tough to watch, not

because anything about this is

624

bad, but because it's like so real.

625

Xhafer: Yeah.

626

Yeah.

627

It's too real.

628

Edgars then admits that Clark's

power is an illusion and that Mega

629

Corps actually run everything.

630

Laura: Well,

631

yeah,

632

Xhafer: do.

633

Laura: we live in America.

634

We know about that.

635

Xhafer: He gets to the rest of it here.

636

The threat to them is making Clark's

paranoia have them turn more power over

637

to the cyco power they won't give back.

638

Over at the fleet I Vava is FaceTiming

with Sheridan Clark sent a few

639

destroyers over to test station

defenses and they immediately defected.

640

I would be so weirdly

about those fucking ships.

641

Laura: Yeah, same like.

642

Too.

643

Too easy.

644

Xhafer: Yeah.

645

We need you to go help defend Miba.

646

Laura: Yeah.

647

Xhafer: Go there, please.

648

Laura: Put you somewhere.

649

I don't have to worry about you.

650

Xhafer: We get an update on Delaine.

651

We're mostly caught up.

652

She's returning to the station soon

653

Laura: Good.

654

Good.

655

Xhafer: and no news from

Epsilon three either.

656

She then transfers the call to Franklin.

657

He's made some progress, but

shared Indeed's results and

658

he finally tells Steven why.

659

We don't see the, what's going on here.

660

This is kept from us, the viewer,

but we do see Steven's reaction.

661

Laura: not good.

662

Not good.

663

Xhafer: I wrote devastated in my notes.

664

Laura: Mm-hmm.

665

Xhafer: Lita happens upon him in the

hallway and Franklin tells her that he

666

finally sees the change in Sheridan,

the one that everyone else had mentioned

667

seeing when he had come back from Zaha to.

668

Laura: I don't think everyone else did.

669

I think it was mostly just

garal, harping on about it.

670

Xhafer: Yeah, I mean, Garibaldi

definitely was in there for a bit.

671

Laura: Yeah, no, this, this uh,

scene actually did get me wondering,

672

Sheridan definitely won quotes, the

shadow war by convincing everyone

673

to get the hell out of his galaxy.

674

But this man did go to Zaha dom and.

675

Kind of, everybody's just kind of

taking his word for it, like Garibaldi

676

was complaining about, like what if

they did influence him in some way?

677

What if the shadows did do something

to him and you know, whatever he is

678

asking of Franklin Franklin's not

super happy about it, I don't think.

679

I don't think he has, and

honestly, I swear I really don't

680

remember exactly what's happening

with these helipads I have.

681

It's kind of new to me.

682

Xhafer: Okay that's,

683

Laura: he plans to kill these telepaths

684

Xhafer: is

685

Laura: going to Mars for something.

686

Xhafer: because.

687

The episode that I had missed on my

run through as a kid was the one that

688

showed what these telepaths can do.

689

Laura: Uhhuh.

690

Xhafer: And so it's kind of like,

if you're now missing the end

691

bit, I was missing the beginning

bit of, of what's going on here.

692

So yeah.

693

Well, you're in for a uh,

well, you'll find out.

694

Franklin hires Lita for a long-term

job, starting with a trip to Mars.

695

And speaking of Mars, Garibaldi

thinks that the only difference

696

between him and Edgars is money.

697

Laura: Oh man.

698

Yeah.

699

Listening to Garibaldi list off

this stuff is a little painful.

700

Uh,

701

Xhafer: Uh,

702

Laura: Really doesn't see it.

703

Xhafer: no.

704

No, he does not see it at all.

705

He is absolutely oblivious to any

faults in himself as a person,

706

Laura: Yeah.

707

I mean, you and I know it because we

get to watch the whole episode, but

708

Edgar isn't exactly a great dude.

709

But from Garibaldis point of

view he doesn't know about, you

710

know, the genocide murder yet.

711

He, he's like, objectively better than

you, man, and a whole lot of measures.

712

And one of those being just proximity.

713

Xhafer: Just being there.

714

I mean, proximity.

715

I, I did not read that as

a literal, he was there.

716

I mean, I'm sure that's,

he, that's part of it.

717

Uh, I read it more of a uh,

emotional, he was there.

718

Laura: Well, yeah.

719

Yeah.

720

I mean proximity in like a bunch

of senses, like not just physical

721

proximity, but like he picked up

the phone where you know, garibaldis

722

on Babylon five and might be busy.

723

Xhafer: Yeah, she reaffirms she

loves William Garibaldi is the

724

guy you never hear from first,

725

Laura: Mm-hmm.

726

Yeah.

727

Xhafer: Over in the

interrogation room set.

728

But this time with the lights

from the gray council set.

729

Edgar checks in on some dying people with

Morrissey and he orders a lot of them.

730

Quote, put down, end quote.

731

Laura: yeah.

732

He has a show of some

kind of remorse here.

733

Xhafer: Look at how nice I am, not

letting the people that I'm killing

734

suffer needlessly after I've gotten

everything I needed from them.

735

Laura: It's weird.

736

He's so

737

Xhafer: He's so fucking terrible.

738

Laura: I, I, I think it was a great

choice casting wise to get somebody

739

with such a charismatic voice and

740

Xhafer: They cast this guy like sight

unseen, like he was not a fan of the show.

741

He did not ask for it.

742

And j m s was familiar with

his work and was just all

743

like, this guy fucking get him.

744

Laura: Yeah.

745

I mean, it was a great choice.

746

Xhafer: Yeah.

747

Garibaldi finds William and tells him

that he's in the cost of getting in

748

is for Garibaldi to turn Sheridan in.

749

This was the whole

reason he was approached.

750

He learns his connection to Sheridan and

he reveals some information about Papa

751

Sheridan that will force him to be found.

752

Laura: Yeah.

753

Papa Sheridan needs this one rare

drug, and if we can track the places

754

that are administering this drug,

then we know where whereabouts he's

755

Xhafer: Yep.

756

As far as setting the trap, Garibaldi

agrees he goes to one of the other

757

domes in Mars to start setting

it up, and we get a monologue of

758

self-justification bullshit to credits.

759

Well, Laura, using our patented scale

that we have not patented patent

760

pending, uh, of Babylon's one to five.

761

How'd you feel about this episode?

762

Laura: I mean, I'm still in

above average territory, like

763

I'm still on the edge of my seat.

764

Yeah.

765

I'm, I'm giving it a four.

766

Xhafer: Okay.

767

a th I got a three written down.

768

Laura: Okay.

769

Xhafer: some of this is pretty

difficult to watch bordering

770

on fuck this episode for me.

771

Uh, but it did not cross that line.

772

It flirted with that line.

773

Um, More than anything though, it's just.

774

It's so frustrating to just deal

with Garibaldi this episode.

775

Like

776

Laura: I care ball least the worst.

777

Xhafer: I, I have known people like

this and I have removed them all

778

from my life, but just the, oh, what?

779

Just 'cause that guy's got more money than

me and it's all like, hmm, there's a whole

780

lot you have not taken in about yourself.

781

Laura: Yes.

782

Xhafer: a level of lack

of self-reflection.

783

That makes me wonder if you would

pass mbar sent sentience rules.

784

Laura: right.

785

He's got a big self blind spot.

786

Xhafer: yeah, it's bad and it's

so difficult to see and it's

787

so, so difficult to deal with.

788

And so maybe that's just me remembering

old friendships that I would am

789

better off now, not having in my life.

790

Laura: Mm-hmm.

791

Xhafer: Maybe that's why I'm being

a little hard on this episode,

792

Laura: I think it's supposed

to push that button.

793

Yeah, it's supposed to

push that button for us.

794

'cause I think everybody has somebody

like that in their life that you're

795

just like, how do you not see this in

the mirror when you look at yourself?

796

Some people just aren't

looking at themselves, I guess.

797

Xhafer: Yeah.

798

Laura: So, yeah, I, and I

guess that's where I'm at.

799

I know that sometimes we've differed

on where the fuck this episode line is.

800

I really like the ones that

are pushing you that way.

801

Um, You know that they're,

they're like pushing it.

802

I, I find it artful.

803

But I can understand why that crosses

and defect this episode, and I feel

804

like they're actually the same rating.

805

They're just different.

806

It's different takes on it.

807

So I don't know.

808

I, there's so much suspense.

809

We don't know what's going on

with Franklin and the Telepaths.

810

We don't know if Garibaldi is gonna be

successful with his gambit with Sheridan.

811

We don't even know what the

fleet's doing right now.

812

Like they're gonna be coming

up on Earth pretty soon.

813

We've ramped up a lot of

tension and I love it.

814

Xhafer: Yeah, it is getting crazy right

now, but what's not crazy is if you were

815

to send us your thoughts on season four,

816

Laura: Yes, please.

817

Xhafer: your season four recap

thoughts for our recap episode.

818

That's coming in a couple of weeks.

819

It, there's still time to get us those

things, so please do so so that we, we

820

can read your letter send us an email.

821

Who are you, b5@gmail.com.

822

Get us on the discord.

823

Send us a Twitter dmm,

824

Laura: It's a big

825

Xhafer: a zet,

826

Laura: something to say.

827

Xhafer: and we wanna hear it.

828

So let us know.

829

but before we get there, we've got season

four, episode 17, the face of the enemy.

830

And

831

Laura: Hmm.

832

Xhafer: hey, we've got a guest next week.

833

We've got Rachel and Ryan from

Yum Yum podcast joining us.

834

Laura: So excited to have

835

Xhafer: I am as well.

836

Always a blast with those two.

837

Laura: indeed.

838

Xhafer: Uh, The episode shared into summon

to Mars after his father is arrested and

839

Garibaldi gives him over to Clark's forces

Garibaldis conspiracy to overthrow Earth.

840

GB continues to escalate.

841

Laura: Wait a second.

842

Garibaldis

843

Xhafer: That's what the preview says.

844

Laura: Hmm.

845

Whose preview is that?

846

Xhafer: A voodoo last this, the one for

this episode was wrong too, where it was

847

just like, oh, Frank Alida go to Mars.

848

And it's just like, no, they don't

849

Laura: Nope.

850

Did an AI write these?

851

Gosh, an AI that didn't watch Babylon?

852

Five.

853

Xhafer: quite possibly, but you know who

854

has watched Babylon five?

855

I actually don't know

this cer for certain.

856

Jeremy Siegel, who composed

our lovely theme music.

857

Jeremy, thank you for contributing your

art and your time to our art and our time.

858

We really appreciate it.

859

We love the theme song.

860

Thank you so much.

861

You can find more of Jeremy's work at

Jeremy Siegel 40 two.bandcamp.com or on

862

any streaming service as nuclear jaguar.

863

Laura: the August album has been delayed.

864

Xhafer: He did move.

865

Laura: Nuclear Jaguar is moving.

866

So

867

Xhafer: Yeah, life

868

Laura: their, their August album will

be out soon, or it will be combined with

869

September is the the word on the street.

870

Xhafer: Okay.

871

Laura: yeah.

872

And thank you to Angry Duck Time machine

on Instagram for our podcast artwork.

873

Xhafer: Thank you Aaron

for editing our podcast.

874

Thank you so much for putting

some time in to make Laura and I

875

sound like not drifting idiots.

876

Laura: Yeah, I'm sure.

877

Some days it's very hard.

878

Thank you to you, the listener,

for being here with us.

879

We love that you spend, you know,

30 minutes an hour-ish of your

880

day, depending on how fast you

listen to your pods with us.

881

And uh, if you wanna reach out to us,

give us your season four thoughts, or

882

give other thoughts, you can reach us

at, who are you, B five, at gmail.com or

883

come hop in the Discord, join us there.

884

Xhafer: All right.

885

We'll see you next week.

886

Internet.

887

Laura: Bay.