Explore the forces reshaping wealth management with Dave Mason, Gilly Green and Donald Reid from Solve Partners. From the surge in private equity and cross-border acquisitions to the role of technology and AI in driving efficiency, this episode examines what’s next for the sector. Gain clarity on emerging trends, integration challenges, and how firms can future-proof their operating models in a rapidly consolidating market.

Download their white paper here: https://solvetogether.co.uk/insights/consolidation-whitepaper/

Hello and welcome to the Growth Workshop Podcast with your hosts,

me, Matt Best, and Jonny Adams.

I think there's some really fascinating insights just shared there in terms of

what and practical things that to Donald's point, if you are, listening to this

podcast and thinking about selling your business, things you need to consider and

clearly, a lot of this stuff we do find out after the fact, but due diligence

is such an important factor in this to make sure that you're across all of that.

Gilly, you mentioned an example of where they got, they had two days to

do the the technical integration and they could only possibly have done

that had they done enough preparation.

I think that's a key thing, right?

And a key lesson in this market, but in other markets as well.

Like, just to move us into that second theme from the report, which is talking

about as a result of some of these shifts that we're seeing, what are the key forces

driving some of these acquisitions and who are the leading players shaping this?

Donald, we've seen that, accountancy led professional services firms are

perhaps looking to rebuild their financial planning capabilities.

We've got you a renewed PE interest of course, and then some and some interest

from across the pond in the US as well.

So what are those?

What are those, those key, who are those key players and how are those dynamics

influencing, the future of the market?

Yeah, so there's a lot going on and, things are shifting a bit.

We, actually track the number of deals across the wealth sector.

We've got our own way of doing that.

We take it from publicly available sources and we've, gone back

over the last six or seven years to look at the number of deals.

And it's interesting, over the last five years, there are roughly 150 to

200 deals, being announced, every year.

And that in the main are deals done by PE backed consolidators or wealth managers.

So if you look at 20, 25 people who are active in that sector of

people like perspective, Shackleton, Clifton Asset Management, those

three have probably accounted for

deals that have been announced this year.

A lot of those are, retiring.

IFAs smaller, IFA businesses that are being consolidated together,

but then we've also got new PE firms coming into the sector and there are

a couple, Sovereign Capital, August Equity, they have both acquired

this year, Lee Equity Partners.

So it's interesting, Shackleton used to be owned by Sovereign.

Sovereign, then went, and acquired, another consolidator, and Lee

Equity Partners came in and acquired a stake in Shackleton.

So what we're also seeing is that when PE firms look to sell and

they've maybe held their portfolio investment for five, seven years.

We're seeing quite a lot of those firms then reinvesting

in another firm afterwards.

Why they're doing that is because they can see the benefits of investing

and those benefits, you've got the annuity impacts in terms of fees, so

their ongoing fee levels for ongoing financial planning advice, the ongoing

fees for investment management.

You've got one off fees.

If you then start to consolidate and you execute well, then you can drive out

significant cost savings, particularly in terms of some of the larger firms.

But also you've got the opportunity to go for what's known as vertical

integration, 'cause of a lot of those standalone IFA businesses are

just providing financial advice.

As you bring those together, what some firms are then doing is, how can we

actually also own the investment solution?

'cause that then increases our fees and we can be a one stop shop to those clients.

And again, PE, find that quite interesting as well.

So the number of examples, that's where, that's happened.

And then you've also got firms that are either publicly listed,

privately owned, who are acquiring.

So Rathbones have been quite active on that front.

They're publicly listed.

Brooks McDonald is another one.

But then the trends that we're seeing this year is that there's been a massive amount

of private equity interest in professional services firms, and we're now seeing.

Professional services firms also starting to buy IFAs.

So firms like Cooper Perry, AAB, K3, they've all been on the acquisition

trail, they're at the end Professional services firms, they're now building

a financial planning capability to what they do and that has logic.

'cause if you are advising firms or you're advising clients through an

acquisition process and the, principles receive the proceeds from that sale, SME

businesses, I'm thinking, but then if you can then introduce them to your financial

planning arm, then you can retain that relationship and add to that relationship.

It's also interesting though, because sort of 10, 20 years ago, a number

of those professional services firms went through the process of divesting

from their financial planning arms.

So things do go around in cycles, but that's certainly a

trend we're seeing this year.

And of course the other trend is, interest from the US.

Not so much in terms of US PE that sits under the PE umbrella,

but other US advisery firms.

So Raymond James is a massive US advisery firm, they acquired, they had

a presence in the UK, but they acquired Charles Stanley about three years ago.

And then earlier this year, Corient, who again, a large US advisery firm

announced the acquisition of Stone H Fleming and Stanhope Capital.

And what we hear is that there are other large US advisery firms

who are also looking to go global and break into the UK market.

And you have to remember, the UK market is still incredibly fragmented.

There's investible wealth of over 3 trillion, but there are still

five and a half thousand firms that are authorised by the FCA to

provide financial planning advice.

So it's still a very fragmented market.

Private Equity has had a massive impact.

There are about 45 firms that are owned by PE and we've mentioned

some of those already and many of those are on the acquisition trail.

So I think the dynamics will continue as we go into 2026, our view is that

we'll still continue to see significant opportunities for consolidation.

I think the challenge will be as consolidators, PE backed consolidators

get bigger, we're going to, and it's out in the domain there five

or six of those consolidators that are on the market the moment.

So we see potentially consolidation of.

Question is end game.

As those get bigger, they become too big for one PE and therefore, we're

already seeing PE consortium going in and, backing, some of those firms.

So Titan Wealth, for example, would be an example.

There, there are three PE backers, Evelyn, there are two PE backers.

But what's the exit strategy for those larger businesses as they grow their

assets northwards of 50 billion because the, IPO market and the opportunity to

go through an IPO is challenging and therefore those are likely to be done

at a discount to potentially setting on to either a corporate buyer and

some of the UK banks and some of the foreign banks may actually be active

there in the future, or it goes back to another turn of PE and PE consortium.

But for PE consortium to get value for their end investors.

They're then going to have to acquire and bring together larger firms as one.

So it's interesting, but there will be a continue to be significant

activity going into 2026.

Brilliant.

Thank you Donald, for that.

And what does that mean for the advice, right?

What does that mean for the advice in the market?

What does that mean for, for arguably for the, advice gap?

I know we see in the US that there's, perhaps less of a gap, more people

receiving financial advice, more people being, more financially literate.

Is that a change you think we're gonna see as a result of some of these,

some of these shifts, or do you think that's largely gonna stay the same?

A number of these businesses are looking at how they service

lower end clients or their clients with less investible assets.

And what's the model for doing that?

So a client who maybe has 50,000, a hundred thousand and, there are some

firms that are investing in that in terms of, how, can we provide a service

that is you, don't have necessarily have a named adviser, but you have

access to those services online, or you have, a service center where

you can talk to a pool of advisers.

So that is, definitely happening to plug that gap in the market.

And there are other firms who are saying actually, we're actually going

to transfer those clients to a different provider because we're, our focus is,

for our ultra high net worth clients or our high net worth clients, and

we don't want to be in that space.

Dave, I don't know if you wanna comment on what you're seeing.

Yeah, I think I'm really interested to see what happens in the, for the large,

banks, Matt, the, obviously you go back in time with RDR, a lot of the, big financial

institutions exited the advice market.

Really, it was a kinda reputational risk and became very costly and

difficult and that kind of created the fragmentation in the first place.

I think the world has moved on a lot.

I think.

I think credit to, it's been difficult from a regulatory, aspect with consumer

duty, but actually overall, that has improved the standard of financial

service and improved the, quality of advice that firms are now giving.

So I think putting all these things together in terms of who's gonna have

the balance sheet and deep enough pockets and the appetite to go back in

to serving multiple segments of Donald I think focus now re on the banks as

to how they might reenter that market.

And I think where that speaks to the advice gap is they of course

have very large client bases at all different range of segments.

I think the interesting thing for our industry now is, someone out there

who can piece all of this together.

To have a, a very low cost efficient, simplified advice or targeted support

on areas of the segment that don't necessarily want a face to face adviser

and can be delivered digitally, but then all the way up to that full service

advice that, in the high net worth segment people want I think, the banks

entering could be an interesting phase, and I think that will be good for the

market and address that advice gap.

I'm gonna be slightly more controversial than that and say, the

banks have never been good at this.

They've never been very good at that crossover between

banking and wealth management.

They themselves will probably admit that, so yes, interesting

to see if they come back into it.

But I also think looking at where we are with targeted support, if you talk to the

advice LED firms, no one is interested.

It's such a low level of potential revenue, and you need a critical mass

of clients to be able to make it work.

And none of the smaller firms, or even the medium sized firms want to spend a fortune

on technology to actually address it.

So I think where this might go, and the firms that are probably

really well positioned to do it, are the insurance companies.

Because they have brand recognition, which not many the High Street banks

do, but none of the advisers, even St. James Place don't really have

brand recognition on the street.

But the insurance companies do.

And what they also do is they're normally get in there at the

first point where people can save, and that is for their pensions.

So I think there's a, an opportunity for those guys really to look

at targeted support and how the advice could wrap around, that sort

of workplace scheme type thing.

I think if we're, today, I don't think the advisers are that worried about it.

In 10 years time, I think the insurance companies might be eating our lunch.

And if you look at actually the model in Europe, the advice is

given by bank insurers mainly.

The distribution model is bank insurers.

They don't have the fragmentation that we have.

Maybe, we'll one day look a little bit more like that.

I dunno.

But I do think that is a, problem.

The second problem, I think is education.

We have a very poor financial education in this country.

You can see firms like Octopus Money trying to really democratise

saving and investments.

But, But really even firms that say they're going into schools, it's

a, it's just really hitting such a small part of what needs to be done.

And I think we have a serious problem in this country around that.

And I think that changes the face of everything that we do in terms of

how people take responsibility for their own lifestyle and retirement.

I think it, because we don't have this education, it also breeds some,

jealousy and things around people who don't have money without understanding,

those steps to, to building it.

We're not in a great place and somebody, whomever, whether it's the

financial companies, advisers or the government needs to resolve that.

I think.

That's a really important point, Gilly, thank you for, raising that.

And I think, again, I've had a number of conversations with, in this market, with

advisers who are, acutely aware of that.

And, Jonny, you and I have, spent some time with some in the US who definitely

have a greater focus on that, where that knowledge is more readily available.

One of the things of course that we know to, can be a great enabler for

providing, putting services at a scale that becomes appetising for some of the

current wealth managers, but also helps others get into this space, of course,

is, looking at the kind of technology.

And technology is key.

Of course, we've established the first part of today's conversation

about how important the integration is and the speed of that integration.

Big part of that, of course, technology.

We talked about differences.

Differences of systems, platforms, processes.

To which technology is a, great sort of facilitator of speed and efficiency and

effectiveness in that space, but also, I guess technology provides effectiveness

and efficiency to advisers themselves.

I know Dave, from your position and from the work that you are doing

with clients, what's the, what's the opportunity, but also what's the risk?

As Gilly, you also mentioned cutting down in administrative sort of roles and

what have you and the impact that has.

That's of course a challenge if businesses assume that they can

replace some of more of those roles than it's feasible with technologies.

Dave, what are you seeing?

Yeah, and I think, it's good, but going back to the findings of the report and the

rationale is of course the, reason firms come together often driven by commercial

drivers, which is economies of scale.

So it's harder and it's getting harder and harder to operate in

this market with good margin.

'Cause there is a lot more regulation, a lot more complexity, in the,

world of financial services and in financial advice in particular.

And then you've got things like, increasing challenges around cyber

and complexity of proposition.

So all of that puts a big demand on organisations to be able

to invest in technology and, deliver benefits from technology

while still preserving a margin.

So therefore, the argument is if you bring businesses together, you have more

capacity to invest in those technologies.

There is a small counter to that.

Which is, it's not always a cost save by bringing businesses together.

So some of the firms have been acquired when they move from a,

smaller, medium size enterprise business to become more enterprise.

Often that's bringing in technology that may not have needed or used before.

So just a word of caution there.

If people are looking at smaller firms, it's not always about a

cost save on the technology side.

But yeah, I think in terms of what technology can deliver, of

course, the big buzzword in the hyper curve is, the use of AI.

And, I would, my reflections on the industry as a whole is, wealth.

In particular is, I think is quite, has always had an interesting

relationship with technology.

I think with wealth sector is generally very slow to adopt technology.

It's often peppered with a lot of legacy technology.

It has really complicated clients.

It's a retail business, so there's a reason for that, complexity.

But in the world of AI, I've never seen a technology move so quickly through.

The wealth sector is AI and I know a lot of people listening to this go, hey, we go

again, someone else banging on about AI.

But I'm as much a, I'm a, enjoy technology obviously 'cause of my background, but I'm

equally a skeptic of what it can deliver.

But genuinely, I think some of the AI tools that can now be

used, particularly in that advice space to support an adviser.

We're actually very mature now and working really well.

We touched on earlier in, in, in some of the discussions, but about having

this Golden Time with clients and we've really seen very successful use

cases of AI to support an adviser both before, during, and after a meeting.

Automating that process of getting notes from a meeting into a

suitability report and recommendation.

We've always had conversations around how, compliance and quality assurance

is done on a sample checking basis.

If you're, a very well qualified adviser, you get a lower percentage.

If you are new to the, business, you get a higher percentage of checking.

AI tools can do a hundred percent of that checking.

you always have a human in the loop of course, so that's how you manage the

risk to make sure that it's, doing things in the right way that you need it to.

But it really has transformed the way that advice piece can be delivered now.

So bigger firms are able to adopt and invest in that technology.

Some tools can be bought off the shelf.

Equally firms, that are, actually firms of all sizes now are starting to invest

in building their own tech on AI.

So it really is maturing very rapidly.

I think that's, an opportunity and also an ability to manage

the risk more effectively.

Great.

I agree with all of that.

I think, the other point of flag, looking at the end to end operating model.

The other area where technology should be delivering some real benefits

is around technology investment by platforms and outsource providers.

So if you look at a wealth firm, the expertise, the bespoke expertise is

with the financial planner or the investment manager at the end of

the scale once you are post trade, and you're dealing with custody

settlements and all the intricacies of dealing with dividend processing,

corporate actions, client reporting.

That again, is an area where technology is becoming increasingly important,

and that is why the costs of providing a platform and outsource services to

wealth managers have gradually come down over the last 10, 15 years, and in,

in our view, will continue to reduce.

So again, as part of the end-to-end process, that is gonna be absolutely key.

Yeah, totally agree.

Of course.

SEI who sponsored the, report, which is call out for them, is, obviously

that's the market they're in.

So for firms that are looking to get, pushed down.

The costs of the commodity type services so they can invest in the more client

facing digital client experience tools, that model works really well.

and so going to an outsource provider that can do these things efficiently,

reduce the operational risk, give you more surety of supply, and that's where

a direction a lot of firms take is in to get that economy of scale from a supplier.

Yeah, brilliant.

Jonny.

My polite, virtual and non-virtual hand, and I'm intrigued about this

topic for the last six years, working in organisations similar to the ones that

you guys work in as well, we typically are focused on a couple of key metrics,

Net New Money as the proxy for growth.

We're also helping with, expanded client inflows or client inflows,

depending on how we wanna look at that as the other areas of KPIs.

When we look under the commercial bonnet at SBR and we look at the engine and

whether it's thriving or not within the wealth management, client or arena,

we typically see an absence of a CRM.

Or a, thriving CRM or, actually, actually is the case.

There's normally 300 CRMs and they're all on spreadsheets.

I make that flip and joke, but that's very true.

And Dave, I'll come to you as, probably the, tech technology guru.

While striving for growth, we know that the technology sector SaaS organisations

have thrived through growth and multiples of going through the city

and integrating the CRM as a hub.

Why do wealth management firms or even financial service

firms, why invest in a CRM?

Great question.

I think a lot of them would say, we do invest in CRM, but we probably don't

get the benefits that other firms can do, can get from a CRM system.

So it's not unusual at tool Jonny to have a firm with several CRM

systems or managing on spreadsheets.

It, can be quite immature.

I think a lot of it is, it, talks to all the things we've touched on

today, but a lot of it is cultural.

So I think the heritage of a lot of firms in wealth management have come from a

stockbroking investment management origin.

So that's the, conversation topics people look comfortable

having is about markets, about investments, about stocks and prices.

That's where understandably, that's where the, value of a

lot of the conversations are.

But the harsh reality of growing a business is that you have to be commercial

and you have to think about how you grow a relationship and deepen that and actually

these tools are very good at enabling that process if you work, if you implement

them well and work with them well.

So I think a lot of firms are still wrestling with how do you become more of

a relationship managed, focused business.

As well as still providing that excellent advice and that great market

knowledge, and to what extent can those tools really help you in that process?

I think the other thing that CRM tool is really underutilised for it in wealth is

joining up the different channels that clients can interact with and making sure

that clients are now expecting it to.

It's table stakes now is to have the opportunity to have a really

good face-to-face relationship.

Of course, that's caused the business, but support that with digital tools,

and the ability to interact offline.

And that's where CRM systems can really help bring these things together so

you can get that single view of the client and understand how they're

taking different services from different parts of the organisation.

Sorry, a long answer to it, but it's not unusual to see fragmented

use of technology in the industry.

I think it's still getting script how best it can leverage it, but I think the

firms that are able to embed that well and use it while are the ones that are

succeeding and are gonna continue to win.

Thank you.

and I, would add to that, I agree with everything Dave said, but I

would add to that what questions are being asked at the boards and the

agenda needs to be set at the top.

And I think there are relatively few wealth firms where the exec committees

and the boards are seeing the right robust operational KPIs and management

information, and this was actually one of the conclusions in our productivity

white paper that we did a year ago.

The boards are very focused on p and l cashflow, but they're not

necessarily looking at operational KPIs, and if they're not asking

the right questions, that's why.

Some firms are in a bit of a mess in terms of having a multitude of

systems and different definitions in terms of how they measure things

like net new money and so on.

And net new money is a great example when firms are consolidating.

They have real challenges in terms of how we can standardise the reporting of

Net New Money and gross inflows, gross outflows, and the reasons why, at board

level, and it's a, massive challenge across the industry, but ultimately there

needs to be more focus from the top.

Yeah.

I don think I'll add to that is of course the enabler for, this, any

technology is the quality of your data.

So you can, have a, a description of a KPI, you want to track and that's

probably one of the reasons why CRM is struggling to be adopted in many

firms is because a system is only as good at the data that's being provided.

If you are given a system to manage your day, and actually the

data's in there rubbish, you're gonna reject it pretty quickly.

We all would.

But the, legacy situation a lot of firms have, because of the complexity

of the propositions, means that actually getting data into good enough

formats in a, secure way to enable these tools and including AI, that's

often where the biggest challenge is.

So we see that a lot in the firms.

I think, one thing to also note is there is a slight difference between

advice led firms and investment led firms in terms of where they've

come from, particularly with CRM.

So most of the advice firms have something, and it's usually an advice

specific type CRM, and partly why they have something is 'cause a

lot of them don't have a platform.

A lot of them have 39 platforms in some cases, where they're looking at external

platforms, where clients are registered.

And that's quite an important definition's because the client, the

underlying client has a contract with the platform, not the adviser so much.

Whereas with an outsource agreement, the adviser has a, call it a white label

platform and they have the contract with the outsource service provider, which

actually can help to bring the price down.

But one of the complexity things that we have in this integration

process is that onboarding advisers quite often have external platforms.

End up with a multitude of them.

If you don't move them into your own platform, then you've got a lot of costs.

'cause they're all different in terms of how they interface and uploading data.

But also, just, getting that CRM to be useful.

Dave alluded to it, he said, when things are implemented well, we are not good

at implementation in our industry.

And I think a lot of firms, when they implement a new system of any

type, but particularly CRM, is they look at what they do today and they

try and automate it rather than looking at how things can be done.

How things can be done better and being led with the capability of the technology.

And I think this also alludes to AI is when you are looking at these

things, don't try and re-implement what you do today, but look at

how you should do things better.

And I, I personally think actually the first thing you should do before

you do a big operating model change is to reorganise the people side first.

Make sure that the functions are in the right places before you automate them.

That is also true of ai.

And, a further thing about technology is adoption is really important.

You've gotta sell it to people to an extent.

when your advisers are sitting there saying, I'm not going to record a client

informa client conversation, it's private.

You have to get them on board.

And actually, one example that we had, or someone I've spoken to recently said that

they had this initial objection around AI and recording client, client meetings,

but they actually went out to the clients and asked for permission and 99% of their

clients said they didn't have a problem.

So you have to sometimes leap over the objections and, find out from

the horse's mouth what you wanna do.

but all of these things are, continuous problems in our industry

about implementing software.

The beautiful thing about spending time with friends like yourselves

and, the peer group that we're in this particular conversation is

this, could carry on for hours.

We've only scratched the surface of this topic, and as we bump into each other with

our mutual clients or as we talk to each other about the industry insights, I just

wanna say thank you to the three of you.

It has been really rich of insights.

I've got one more question for each of you.

In a moment, you're thinking, which one is this?

Because it's not on my list because the report really and as Matt will close up

in a moment with some of the takeaways, but the report, talks about how much

activity will occur, in the coming years, one piece of data in the report talks

about, 77% of the respondents intend to acquire in 2025, but only would imagine as

Donald mentioned, more activity in 2026.

All of the, all, of the insights and all the conversations we've had so far.

I'd like you each just to respond, and I'll start off with you, Gilly.

What is the one thing that you'd be recommending to the industry at the

moment that they focus on to make this, approach of consolidation and

the integration really, efficient.

Also really great for our customers because we don't

talk enough about the customer.

We always talk about ourselves.

Now, if we're thinking about consolidation, what's that one

thing that you would recommend to the industry right now?

And I'll start with you, Gilly, and I'll go to you, Donald and then Dave.

The people integration side is absolutely key, and the focus on

advisers needs to be number one because they're gonna sell it for you.

But I think one thing that astonishes me is how little time is spent on really

understanding some of the emotional side to advisers moving businesses,

losing their brand because that's usually one thing that should happen.

Moving to another business, understanding new products and selling them to clients.

So I think the more time you can spend on that, the better.

And that is probably the one thing that's either gonna be great or disastrous.

If you start losing those advisers, it can have a very negative effect.

If you get them on board, get them growing quickly, it's gonna be fantastic.

It sounds like another episode will come outta that, just

talking about the people side.

That's brilliant Gilly.

Donald, what about you?

I think the key thing, be clear on your client segmentation, your proposition,

your pricing, your operating model.

If you can get that right and you can communicate that effectively and you can

demonstrate what great value it is and therefore it works for end clients as

well that's gonna be a massive start.

And the report talks about the due diligence phase of a lot of those

areas, but also the integration part.

So there's some really great snippets about well.

And the other point, going hand in hand with that, make sure that you

overinvest in your integration resource.

Integration resource is a massive challenge.

Make sure you've got a dedicated team.

Those firms that have a dedicated team, based on our report, 92% of them

deliver on their financial synergy case.

If you don't have a dedicated team, it's only 32%.

So over invest and make sure you've got a really strong team

to deliver your integration.

Top mark.

So fab.

What's the, figure of those that do have an IMO in the, in, in, their

business when they're integrating?

Do they have an integrating management office?

A lot of the organisations.

A lot of 'em do, but, many of them don't.

And too many, there are examples of firms that do it, off the side of

a desk and you, set yourself up for failure if you go down that route.

Brilliant, lovely stats as well.

And Dave, over to you.

What's, the one thing that people should be thinking about?

I think Donald broke the rules out was, that's the one thing.

And Donald had about a list of 10.

I think between Gilly and Donald, I'm now, running outta things.

Oh, so I'm gonna say two things.

One serious one is, all times have the voice of the client in the room

sounds corny, but actually at the end of the day, you've gotta really

think about what that experience is gonna be like for that client through

the process and why you're doing it.

And then second thing, just to follow up on Donald's, is have some professionals

in the room if you need some help.

Like us.

Love it over you, Matt, for closing words.

That is brilliant.

Look, I just wanna echo what Jonny said just before.

it's been an absolute pleasure having you all on the, volume of insight that

comes from the three of your brains, but also that kind of comes together

in that report is, really fantastic.

And Jonny mentioned something earlier, midway through our discussion just, now

about, even if you're not in the wealth sector, there's a lot in that report on

consolidation that's, really important for anyone running a professional financial,

technical technology services business.

And I think, I think to, to the listeners out there.

I really encourage you to dive into this, into this fantastic report,

and I'm sure you'll, I'm certain you'll learn something, that'll be

relevant for you in your context.

I think the kind of three key things for me are, and we've touched on these

as part of the themes, but I think there's some really great advice around

there in, the report if you are, if in the throes of going through a, an

acquisition or a merger or whether you are selling your business or whether you

are in, in, in the business of buying.

And I think it's making sure you prepare well, making sure you then set aside

the, time and prioritise the importance of doing a good job for the culture,

for the people, for the technology, and for the operations, to really get

the, to, get the outcome that you want.

You don't end up just with a lot of, a lot of complexity, a lot of, annoyed

advisers, and, really not very much to show for it in terms of growth.

Look, we'll link at the bottom of this podcast how you can gain access

to the report so that, so that the audience can listen into it.

And on behalf of Jonny and I and the rest of the Growth Workshop podcast team,

Gilly, Donald, Dave, fantastic to see you.

Thanks so much for coming on.

Thanks.

Thanks so much.

Thank you.

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