Shownotes
Live from the Vusion podcast studio at NRF Retail's Big Show Europe in Paris, Ben Miller sits down with Ruth Andrade, environmental partner at Lush, for a conversation that trades the show's usual AI talk for something different.
Ruth shares the origin story of Lush's Earth Care team, which she's led since becoming the company's first environmental officer in 2004, and explains how employee ownership and an ethical charter shape decisions across the business — including Lush's decision to leave social media entirely after Meta whistleblower revelations. She closes with practical advice for building an ethical culture without a founder-backed mandate.
In this episode:
- Inside Lush: unpackaged, handmade, fresh cosmetics in 51 countries and 900+ stores
- How the sales mix has shifted from bath bombs to fragrance
- The origin story of Lush's Earth Care team
- Why employee ownership and an ethical charter shape Lush's decisions
- The decision to leave social media, and why Ruth calls it "no regrets"
- Advice for driving change without a founder-backed mandate
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Transcripts
Hello, everyone.
Speaker A:This is Omnitalk Retail.
Speaker A:I'm Ben Miller, and I'm coming to you live from the Vuzion podcast booth at NRF Retail's big show, Europe in Paris.
Speaker A:So if you're Here, that's booth E043.
Speaker A:And joining me now is Ruth Andrade.
Speaker A:Yay.
Speaker A:Who is environmental partner at Lush.
Speaker A:Welcome, Ruth.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:So let's talk about Lush first.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Lots of people will know.
Speaker A:Lots of people will probably have got kids at home that love your products, but if you don't tell us about the company.
Speaker B:We are a British business that was founded in the southwest of the country, right by the ocean, really beautiful landscape.
Speaker B:But we're now in 51 countries.
Speaker B:We have over 900 stores.
Speaker B:And yeah, and I think ethics and values is a really core part of who we are and what we do.
Speaker B:And we sell cosmetics.
Speaker B:I think that's also very important.
Speaker B:What do we do?
Speaker A:We are going to get into the ethics, but let's talk about the product.
Speaker B:Yeah, we sell cosmetics and experiences.
Speaker B:We have spa treatments, we have shop events, shop parties, and yeah.
Speaker B:From makeup to skincare to bathing to hair products.
Speaker B:And also now we have two hair labs, which are like hair salons in the UK as concepts.
Speaker A:And how would you describe the character of the stores and the character of the product and the brand?
Speaker B:So, Lush, the first thing you notice is the smell.
Speaker B:And the reason why you can smell Lush from a mile away.
Speaker B:Not a mile, not that far.
Speaker B:It's because we are like the OG inventors of naked cosmetics, unpackaged cosmetics.
Speaker B:And when you take cosmetics out of their packaging, imagine that you have the color and the texture, the smells.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Available for the customer to interact with.
Speaker B:So I think Lush is well known for that.
Speaker B:We're also really focused on being on the high street and offering really amazing customer service.
Speaker B:So it's also a shop where you're going to be met by people, like, we say handmades in our name, Lush handmade fresh handmade cosmetics.
Speaker B:And I think the other aspect is fresh.
Speaker B:We have a very different take on cosmetics of making it fresh.
Speaker B:We have five factories in our main big consuming markets.
Speaker B:So products are made fresh, delivered fresh to the shops, and then we also ask customers to use them while fresh.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So we take that using the whole fruit, very little to no preservatives, that whole aspect of freshness to the brand.
Speaker A:So I told my kids that I was coming to Paris and who I was talking to.
Speaker A:They wanted to ask me to ask you about bath bombs.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:How much of your sales are bath bombs.
Speaker A:Roof.
Speaker B:Ooh, let me think.
Speaker B:I think now maybe around 15%.
Speaker B:We're also seeing, I think with warmer summers, there is been a slightly shift in the sales mix for Lush, and our scents have become very, very popular.
Speaker B:So now a lot of people.
Speaker B:It's really interesting because I think we've had waves.
Speaker B:So at the beginning of the business, we were the soap shop.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And then for a long time we've been the bath bomb shop.
Speaker B:And now we're becoming the fragrance shop.
Speaker B:So come because of specific fragrances for body sprays, for perfumes, and that has now become a big chunk of our sales.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:We're here at NRF's big show.
Speaker A:This is a retail technology show.
Speaker A:There's lots of conversations about AI.
Speaker A:We're going to have a very different conversation, aren't we?
Speaker A:Can you tell everybody about what your role is?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Oh, we're not going to talk about.
Speaker A:We are not.
Speaker B:That's a shame.
Speaker B:My favorite topic at the moment.
Speaker B:Yeah, my.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker B: first environment officer in: Speaker B:I was working in the store and it was back in the day where for you to work in sustainability and the environment, basically anyone could do it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So back in those days, we put together a really good ethical team that was mainly made up of activists like looking after the environment and campaigns.
Speaker B:And we already had people in the business really looking into fighting animal testing.
Speaker B:And I think from that really cauldron of activism, a lot of the strength of our values and the ethics have come.
Speaker B:And I've always looked at the environmental aspect of that.
Speaker B:Now with a bigger team, with a colleague that also co leads the team, but we call the team Earth Care.
Speaker B:So I work for the earth as part of Lush.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:That's another first for Omnitor.
Speaker A:But talk to me about how that meet about what this really means.
Speaker A:Lots of businesses have environmental policies or campaigns, but Lush, it's a bit different, isn't it?
Speaker A:It's so baked into your identity.
Speaker A:How did that come about and what does it mean in terms of how you run a retail operation now?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think two things that are important.
Speaker B:One, of course, we still have the founders present in the business, Mark and Mo and Ro and others, and Helen, who does a lot of our skincare.
Speaker B:And Mark and Mo were already environmentalists when they started Lush, and they're big into birds.
Speaker B:Rowena is super keen on litter and plastic and waste and circularity.
Speaker B:So I think a lot of that, the power to choose, sometimes the less commercial Decision comes from that, you know,.
Speaker A:From that, from them and their.
Speaker A:Yeah, right.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:They give you permission.
Speaker B:Permission.
Speaker B:And then I think the actual, I think what actually makes things happen is that they hired activists.
Speaker B:So they hired people that are really passionate about the work, that really deeply care.
Speaker B:And for them, like for me it's not just a job.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:This is, I feel a sense of purpose in working for Lush.
Speaker B:And I feel it's my responsibility to make sure that we're making the best possible decisions.
Speaker B:And I think when you have like we're internal influencers, like intrapreneurs.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And I think that's the other secret is to hire people that care.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:So tell me, how does it affect day to day decision making?
Speaker A:I mean if you're thinking about developing a product, for example, is there strict environmental criteria to hit, how does it affect the retail operation?
Speaker B:So I say Lush is part dream and part data.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I think a lot of the decisions that we make come from I think understanding the issue.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So knowing the implications and the trade offs that we're making and I think the story and the emotion and that reminding people of like what do, what do we want to see in the world?
Speaker B:What is the future that we want to create?
Speaker B:Do we want to create a future where there is no more nature and our children are not going to be able to see wildlife because it's all gone where, you know, the glaciers like in Nepal have melted and our business going to be affected?
Speaker B:We, or do we want to be proud that there is a better world that exists because we exist as a brand and it's not always that easy.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:So I'll give you the juicy bit.
Speaker B:So I think we have a leadership team and the leadership team again makes sure that there is participation of folks that are working in environment, that are working in social, environmental ethics.
Speaker B:Sometimes we need to fight our corner and need to use data in order to justify.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:This is why we should be doing this.
Speaker B:I also feel we have an ethics check in.
Speaker B:So whenever someone has a big ethics conundrum, should we partner with this organization?
Speaker B:This is happening in the supply chain.
Speaker B:Should we not make this product because we can't get the ingredient right safely?
Speaker B:There is a place for people to come and discuss that with technical expertise, specific decision making.
Speaker B:It's not we are, we don't make decisions but we are like internal consultants on those specific issues.
Speaker B:So there is also a place where people can bring those conundrums like AI, Right.
Speaker B:It's a forum where we can Discuss AI.
Speaker B:It's a forum where we can discuss modern slavery, it's a forum where we can discuss animal testing.
Speaker B:And then we, by being part of that you also end up being educated.
Speaker B:So we don't have a lot of top down policy, it's more bottom, bottom up education and, and really being exposed to what's happening around the world.
Speaker A:Really interesting look.
Speaker A:Obviously the Constantines set up the business famous because of their interest in wildlife and nature.
Speaker A:But the ethical culture in Lush is much greater than just sort of environmental sustainability.
Speaker A:You know, social media blackout for example.
Speaker A:How did that all come about and how broad do you take this thinking?
Speaker B: ounders were very wise and in: Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So we co own the business and part of the thing that we steward is the ethical charter.
Speaker B:So we actually have a charter of ethical principles and values that we co steward and one of those values is digital ethics.
Speaker B:And I think we're one of the few businesses that I know that have actually cared about what software we're using, what hardware we're using, what's our take on AI?
Speaker B:Should we be on social media?
Speaker B:And the decision to come out of social media was because we found out, because of the whistleblowers from Meta that they knew they were harming young teenagers and young women and they are our customer base.
Speaker B:So we thought, I don't know, we wouldn't put a shop in a dark alley corner where we know young women are being harmed.
Speaker B:Why are we going to attract customers into this place that is unregulated, that is causing real harm despite all the benefits that it can cause.
Speaker B:So that was our thinking and again lots of discussion, lots of going back to this value of digital ethics.
Speaker B:And yeah, no regrets, not easy, but no regrets, not easy at all.
Speaker B:Huge trade off.
Speaker A:But being co owned by the employees gives you the permission to be able to do things like that.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:And I also think now it's time to be brave.
Speaker B:I don't think, I think the world is not getting any easy.
Speaker B:I think the summer, you know, the summer of drought that we've had in Europe, it's really concerning.
Speaker B:I think we're all seeing that we are co participating and we are complicit in a future that is not going to work.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So how can we really be brave as brands, Brands are the storytellers, but brand are one of the largest organized forces right in our, in our economy.
Speaker B:It's I think being brave, it's where we're at.
Speaker A:Okay, so I'm going to ask you one last question.
Speaker A:We can talk all day, but I.
Speaker B:Know I can talk all day.
Speaker B:As you can see, I can talk all day.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So if you've got people listening who are inspired, you could not be inspired and are thinking, I want to be brave in my organization, but my organization isn't employee owned, doesn't have a founder who believes in it.
Speaker A:How can they make a difference in their organizations?
Speaker B:And the answer is actually not very inspirational.
Speaker B:It's risk because of everything that's happening in the world and because climate change is already creating so much impact.
Speaker B:If your company doesn't care about the ethics because it's the right thing to do, look at risk.
Speaker B:Where is climate already impacting sales?
Speaker B:Where is it impacting the supply chain?
Speaker B:Where is conflict already happening?
Speaker B:Where can you see the risk of modern slavery coming in and I think see what's within our circle of control or a circle of influence and start lifting the information.
Speaker B:I think that's one way.
Speaker B:So go through risk and the other, find something small that you can make visible and that can galvanize folks around an idea.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So it could be something that it's within your control to purchase or you decide the budget.
Speaker B:I'm sure lots of people watching this have power.
Speaker B:It's just that we sometimes feel shy in using that power.
Speaker B:So use the power and find where climate is going to affect the business the most and tell that story.
Speaker A:Ruth, that's been great.
Speaker A:Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker A:We need to let you go.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:And have your panel.
Speaker A:So thanks to the team at Fusion and the NRF Big Show Europe for making the coverage of this show possible.
Speaker A:And stay tuned for more.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Bye.