In this episode of The NonProfit Nook, host Wendy Kidd welcomes back Kendria Taylor, a learning and development expert with over 20 years of experience. Kendria shares her insights on the importance of perception for nonprofit leaders, particularly focusing on the perceptions of Executive Directors by the public, board members, and staff. The discussion covers strategies for aligning personal behavior with organizational mission, improving communication, and developing empathy. Kendria also offers practical advice for Executive Directors and boards facing conflicts, emphasizing the need for honest self-assessment and structured communication. Listeners are encouraged to consider how they are perceived and to address any issues with a proactive and empathetic approach. Wendy also notes that the podcast will take a brief hiatus over the holidays, returning on January 6th.

https://www.tg8solutions.com

https://www.instagram.com/thekendriataylor/

https://www.instagram.com/tg8solutionsinsight/

https://www.bosslevelengaged.com/services-for-nonprofits-nonprofitnook

https://thenonprofitnook.com/

https://www.youtube.com/@BossLevelEngaged

00:00 Introduction to the Rumor Mill

00:30 Welcome to The NonProfit Nook

01:18 Meet Kendria Taylor: Learning and Development Powerhouse

02:23 Discussing Feedback and Generational Workforce

03:38 Diving into Perception in Nonprofits

08:54 Empathy and Leadership in Nonprofits

12:19 Balancing Frontline and Office Work

15:29 Effective Board Management

19:11 Addressing Perception Issues

20:14 Naming and Taming Emotions

21:16 Empathy in the Workplace

22:23 Addressing Board and ED Conflicts

25:21 Communication and Generational Differences

27:51 Assessing Board Impact and Engagement

30:11 Perception and Public Image

35:05 Final Thoughts and Listener Engagement

35:36 Holiday Announcement and Sign-Off

Mentioned in this episode:

Enji

Benevolate

Going back to the rumor mill.

2

Yeah.

3

Okay.

4

What are the rumors?

5

Let's write 'em all down.

6

Okay.

7

Newsflash or something

you may not wanna hear.

8

What is the kernel of

truth to those rumors?

9

Yes, ma'am.

10

Right?

11

Mm-hmm.

12

Mm-hmm.

13

And if we can, if, if, if your listeners

don't walk away with anything else

14

today, when they think about perception,

what is the kernel of truth and what

15

people are already saying, right?

16

Good or bad, right.

17

Wendy Kidd: Welcome to The NonProfit

Nook, the podcast for nonprofit

18

leaders, board members, and community

change makers who want to build

19

stronger, smarter organizations.

20

I'm your host, Wendy Kidd, a longtime

business owner and nonprofit leader,

21

and I'm here to bring you real talk,

real tools and real stories to help

22

you thrive in the nonprofit world.

23

I'll be talking with local nonprofit

leaders, community change makers,

24

and experts in everything from board

development to fundraising and digital

25

tools, sharing real stories and

simple strategies you can actually use

26

because running a nonprofit is hard,

but you don't have to do it alone.

27

Let's get started.

28

Hey everyone.

29

Welcome back to The NonProfit Nook.

30

Today's guest is a returning guest, Ms.

31

Kendria Taylor.

32

She is a powerhouse in

learning and development with

33

over 20 years of experience.

34

Spanning education, corporate

and nonprofit sectors.

35

Known for her high energy, out of the

box facilitation style, Kendria delivers

36

training sessions that keep people

laughing, learning, and fully engaged.

37

Yes, even in the dreaded post-lunch slump.

38

As the founder of TG8 Solutions Insight,

she specializes in developing talent,

39

strengthening communication, and

helping organizations navigate conflict.

40

With creativity and confidence, her

impressive career includes leadership

41

roles from VP to interim CEO, credentials

in mediation and DEI and a client list

42

featuring names like Lockheed Martin,

Texas Instruments in the city of Denton.

43

Kendria's mission equipping

organizations with the tools they

44

need to innovate, engage, and thrive.

45

Welcome back, Kendria.

46

Kendria Taylor: I am

so excited to be back.

47

I love that you're back.

48

Thank you for having me.

49

Wendy Kidd: I, I, I think, I

haven't checked my stats this

50

week, but I feel like your first

episode was my most popular episode

51

period.

52

Kendria Taylor: You know what?

53

I love that we talked about feedback.

54

Yes, we did.

55

Right?

56

Mm-hmm.

57

I just came from a training mm-hmm.

58

Where I was talking about

the six G workforce.

59

The six G workforce.

60

Yeah.

61

Meaning all of the wor, all of the

generations that will be in the workforce.

62

By 2035, we will have all of the

generations in the workforce.

63

Wow.

64

Including, including the

new generation Alpha.

65

The alpha generation.

66

And I love them.

67

And the, just the stress

that went up in the room.

68

'cause we were talking about

Uhhuh delivering feedback mm-hmm.

69

To all the different generations.

70

Wendy Kidd: Yeah.

71

Yeah.

72

So it's still needed.

73

It's absolutely needed.

74

And I've, I've, I've used a

lot of what you talked about.

75

Good.

76

And I've, I've really appreciated it.

77

'cause it's helped me a lot in some tough

situations and some tough conversations.

78

Yeah.

79

Um, and I've been able to help

some friends giving them that same

80

advice that you gave of how to

go back to a boss or someone with

81

feedback and have that conversation.

82

So thank you so much.

83

Kendria Taylor: Yeah, absolutely.

84

I'm so glad people enjoy that, that

um, that one, that podcast, because.

85

Yeah, I had a great time doing it.

86

Absolutely.

87

Well, and that's why I had

to have you back because

88

Wendy Kidd: you, I wanted to

tackle another tough topic.

89

Well, let's get into it.

90

I'm excited.

91

Yeah.

92

What are, what are we tackling?

93

We are talking about perception.

94

'cause I feel like this is something

that we kind of stress about.

95

Mm-hmm.

96

But we don't really name it and we don't

really tackle it in an effective way.

97

So I wanna talk about

different types of perception.

98

I wanna talk about the

public's perception of.

99

You and how does it affect your

leadership and your organization?

100

I wanna talk about, um, your

board's perception of you mm-hmm.

101

And how that affects your relationship

with the board, um, and how your

102

team's perception of you affects your

working relationship, um, with the

103

leadership of the org and your staff.

104

So I really, it's perception of, you

know, that key player in the nonprofit

105

world of the Executive Director.

106

Mm-hmm.

107

And, you know, I, I think in talking

about this, we can talk about how

108

perception of the board and other

things kind of come into play.

109

But I feel like that is

a good place to start.

110

Kendria Taylor: Okay.

111

Wendy Kidd: Is perception

of the Executive Director.

112

So let, let's talk about, first about

how the per the public's perception

113

of the Executive Director affects

people and how we can work with that.

114

Kendria Taylor: Okay.

115

So let me start here though.

116

Wendy Kidd: Yeah.

117

Okay.

118

I know you're gonna back me up.

119

Kendria Taylor: Uh, yes.

120

Let me, let me start here.

121

When you are in charge of a

nonprofit organization, the first

122

thing people look at is what is

the perception of the organization?

123

Yep.

124

What do they do?

125

What do they offer?

126

What do they look like to the public eye?

127

Are they organize all of these things?

128

And even if they don't know some

of the intimate details, they're

129

looking at what good do they do?

130

Right?

131

Right.

132

What is the good that they're

putting out in the world?

133

So they're looking at who's

running this organization?

134

And how aligned is this person's

behavior, their executive

135

presence, all of these things?

136

Is it aligned with the mission mm-hmm.

137

Or what the organization, what

good the organization is doing?

138

Yeah, so I think a lot of times

even, I mean, I've, I've served

139

on boards for really, really

long time, even as board members.

140

I know for me, when I was on a

board, we were looking for a new CEO.

141

And we were looking just kind

of all across the, the, the,

142

the, the board of everything.

143

And I was like, some of these people don't

work, but because they didn't have, they,

144

they, their experience didn't even come

with what is the good that we are doing.

145

Right.

146

So we finally settled on, we

finally settled on someone.

147

And I will, I'm gonna be honest, Wendy.

148

Yeah.

149

This is a large organization,

a $10 million nonprofit.

150

I did not agree with the

rest of the search team.

151

Mm, mm-hmm.

152

I didn't agree.

153

Yeah.

154

Um, while he had the CEO had experience, I

was like, yes, he understands the mission.

155

He's done a couple things.

156

I don't know if he, if his

presence aligns with the mission.

157

So to answer your question, that's

the first thing people think about.

158

When this person came into the

organization, I believe that.

159

Number one, the board members saw

fundraising and not mission driven.

160

Wendy Kidd: I think that happens a lot.

161

Mm-hmm.

162

Right?

163

Yep.

164

Kendria Taylor: And so there's a

perception of your board that's, Hey,

165

we're going to raise all these dollars.

166

But there's also a perception of

your people as the leader is, does

167

he stand for what we stand for?

168

Does she stand for what we stand

for, or are they just here to.

169

You know, it's okay to elevate,

it's critical to elevate

170

the organization, right?

171

But are you there to elevate yourself

and the organization, get a, a piece

172

in, you know, Dallas CEO magazine,

or are you there to really think

173

about the, the mission that people

are driving behind the scenes?

174

Right.

175

So I think when you think about your

perception as a leader, people see many

176

different perceptions and how that impacts

the board, I think for the board is.

177

Just, can you do the job?

178

Right.

179

Do you look the part for your team?

180

Do you feel the part?

181

Mm-hmm.

182

And for this particular organization,

it, the relationship didn't last long

183

because that person didn't really

feel the part, and the perception was

184

he doesn't really understand the touchy

feely things that we do here, you know?

185

Right.

186

So tell me if that.

187

Gave you what, what you were looking for.

188

Wendy Kidd: It, it, it's

exactly what I was looking for.

189

Okay.

190

Because I, I don't think people are

aware of what others perceive about them.

191

Mm-hmm.

192

And I don't think of it, I

don't think they think of it

193

in those specific categories.

194

Like, they kind of just go, oh,

what, what do people think of me?

195

They don't really think of, well,

how am I coming across to my board?

196

How am I coming across to my team?

197

Mm-hmm.

198

How am I coming across to the public?

199

You know?

200

Um, I think that.

201

We need to think about what

creates that perception.

202

Mm-hmm.

203

And, and how to influence that perception.

204

Right?

205

Mm-hmm.

206

So how would you, how would

you suggest that someone kind

207

of figured that out and how

208

to change perception a little bit?

209

Kendria Taylor: So, I'm gonna

say this, and I think we

210

ended, the last mile was here.

211

We ended with empathy.

212

Mm-hmm.

213

Okay.

214

I'm gonna start with empathy.

215

How do we change that, right?

216

Mm-hmm.

217

So I will remind your listeners, one

of the things that I said about empathy

218

the last time was everyone, if you ask

someone what is their definition or

219

what's the general definition of empathy?

220

Mm-hmm.

221

It is, oh, being able to, you

know, walk in someone else's shoes.

222

Mm-hmm.

223

Okay.

224

Guess what?

225

Nonprofit leaders, there's a lot of

areas where they need to be empathetic to

226

staff, who are helping some of the most

vulnerable populations in our communities,

227

in our counties, in our cities and states,

and then other areas of the organization.

228

But what happens, or what I like to

say on top of that is, yes, we want

229

you to be able to walk in someone

else's shoes, but to do that you have

230

to take your own shoes off first.

231

Yeah.

232

And what I mean by that is you have to.

233

Look at your own values.

234

Look at your own filters.

235

Whether, whether it's the communities

you come from, the families you come

236

from, the, the college, or maybe you

don't value, you know, traditional

237

education or whatever the case may be.

238

It could be po political,

religious, everything, right?

239

Mm-hmm.

240

But you have to take your shoes off to be

able to step into someone else's shoes.

241

Wendy Kidd: Yeah.

242

Kendria Taylor: And as a nonprofit

leader, you have so many people under

243

you that you are usually, you're not,

not even, you're not on the front lines.

244

Mm-hmm.

245

Right?

246

Yeah.

247

But you also have a 30,000 foot view

of paperwork and all these things

248

that are happening, and you're not

able to really connect immediately

249

with what are my people going through?

250

So I think if you walk into a

room and you automatically say,

251

you know what, let me walk in.

252

Lemme take my shoes off.

253

Help me understand what you do.

254

Mm-hmm.

255

Help me understand the

impact that this makes.

256

Help me understand how you

collaborate with this department.

257

Right?

258

Right.

259

And when you don't do

that, guess what happens?

260

You can get ready to create a, um, not

an RFP, that's a small business, but

261

when you're writing a grant, right?

262

Yeah.

263

Mm-hmm.

264

If I don't know what program is

doing, but I'm marketing and I'm

265

throwing all these things out there,

and I haven't even stepped inside of

266

the program department to say, Hey.

267

What's the greatest impact

that we, we've made?

268

What's the greatest need we have?

269

Give me some stories.

270

Give me some examples.

271

Help me understand how our

team is getting all this done.

272

And then you realize what,

we've helped 10,000 people.

273

That's why our people are tired.

274

Mm-hmm.

275

That's why they're exhausted.

276

But if you're just walking

in with this disconnect.

277

Then people are gonna

see you as disconnected.

278

Yeah.

279

When you walk in with, I'm

ready to be empathetic.

280

Or even if you don't utilize that

language, if you walk in with, let me

281

take my shoes off, let me take off down

my filters and just listen and figure

282

out where I start to make connections.

283

I think that's, I think nonprofit

leaders could really do.

284

So much good.

285

Mm-hmm.

286

By doing that.

287

By doing that one thing.

288

Wendy Kidd: Absolutely.

289

I think that that's something that

everyone needs to realize when they're

290

coming into a new space, is to listen.

291

That's right.

292

And learn from the people

who've already been there.

293

And if you don't take the time when you

first join an organization to do that.

294

That, that affects the

perception Absolutely, hugely.

295

And you know, even for the

smaller nonprofits where the,

296

the CEO is on the front line

297

mm-hmm.

298

And they're, you know, they're

dealing up the soup bowls as

299

well as handling the accounting.

300

Um, I think that you also have

to think of the perception of you

301

doing the work for the programming,

but also the work in the office.

302

How are people perceiving

both of those functions?

303

Absolutely.

304

You know, are they seeing

both sides of that?

305

Are they not seeing both sides of that?

306

Absolutely.

307

Um, and that's, that's something else

that affects the public's perception of

308

you as well as your team's perception of

you and your board's perception of you.

309

Kendria Taylor: There are people

that will tell you the way you show

310

value is that you give directions.

311

That's 'cause you are

here, you are a lot higher.

312

And again, you have a 30,000

foot view of a lot of different

313

things in the organization.

314

So some people feel that way.

315

There are some people

like me, like you mm-hmm.

316

Who I'm like, well, do we need to

move that table because we only got

317

five minutes before we need to get

started, so let's move this table.

318

Yep.

319

And your people are gonna see you as,

I'm gonna get in, I'm gonna collaborate

320

whatever collaboration looks like.

321

Right.

322

Right.

323

Mm-hmm.

324

That's me collaborating with

my team to move a table.

325

Wendy Kidd: Right.

326

Right.

327

So I, I'm gonna say something

that I think people are gonna.

328

Maybe not be as happy with.

329

Kendria Taylor: Okay.

330

Wendy Kidd: But I, I feel like

people also don't realize the

331

perception that they give off when

they are constantly saying, I'm busy.

332

And I feel like with our nonprofit

leaders who are on the front lines too,

333

that is something to be very aware of.

334

And like, that's again why I pull back

to you gotta let 'em see you doing other

335

things, not just the programming work.

336

Kendria Taylor: Absolutely.

337

Right.

338

Absolutely.

339

Yeah.

340

They, they need to know.

341

Well, and for me, my perception

of a leader is someone that I do

342

see doing all those things, so I

know that that person knows exactly

343

what I'm going through mm-hmm.

344

When I don't see them doing it.

345

Mm-hmm.

346

They also, I look at them

as you understand how much

347

work needs to be done and.

348

You don't care about how we get it

done, you just wanna jump in and

349

make sure we get it done right.

350

Right.

351

You know?

352

Wendy Kidd: Mm-hmm.

353

Kendria Taylor: So let's just do it not

well, this is my job here, you know?

354

Right, right.

355

Yeah.

356

Yeah.

357

Wendy Kidd: I, there's so

many scenarios to this.

358

There, there, we, we could

go down so many rabbit holes.

359

Kendria Taylor: We really could right now.

360

And just thinking about

our own experiences.

361

Yeah.

362

You know, I mean, not, not only

have I served on boards, but I

363

worked in nonprofit for a long time.

364

So my board perspective and the perception

that members of that organization had

365

of me is she's always thinking about us.

366

I'm always thinking about the

people who are serving the people.

367

Wendy Kidd: Mm-hmm.

368

And I can testify that

that is what Kendria does.

369

Right.

370

Kendria Taylor: That that is what,

which is why what I do for a living

371

is so in alignment with what I feel.

372

So when I go to Boars, I'm looking

at how are we, this is our goal,

373

this is our big audacious goal.

374

Great.

375

Mm-hmm.

376

How do we support the people that

are gonna be supporting that goal?

377

Mm-hmm.

378

Mm-hmm.

379

So that is the perception that most,

um, that I would say all the boards

380

that I've served on have of me.

381

Wendy Kidd: Yeah, for sure.

382

Well, okay, so let's talk about, um, you

know, how your own perception of your

383

own team and of your own board mm-hmm.

384

Affects how you do your job?

385

Kendria Taylor: Ooh, that's hard.

386

Well, you know what,

no, it's, it's not hard.

387

Um, I'm, I'm going through the transition

'cause I'm, I'm chairing a board right now

388

and I, I just, I'm now the immediate past

president of another board that I was on.

389

And they sent out a newsletter

just recently and I was like, Ooh,

390

I wouldn't have done it that way.

391

Ooh, I wish they would've put that.

392

And I was like, it was like,

393

I mean, it was like, and it wasn't bad.

394

Mm-hmm.

395

It was just like, oh, I wish

they would've done that.

396

Right.

397

Mm-hmm.

398

And then I have another, another board

that I am now the, the president of.

399

Mm-hmm.

400

And I'm just the, the founder.

401

Mm-hmm.

402

I'm just like.

403

Okay, me and you need to

have a, a conversation.

404

So when I look at the board, what my

perception that I'm just gonna be flat

405

out, my perception of this particular

board is they're all over the place.

406

We're not gonna get anything done.

407

Wendy Kidd: That sounds like they need me.

408

Kendria Taylor: They do.

409

And then I say, okay,

how do we bring order?

410

Yeah.

411

And it's just little things.

412

And so the founder reached out to me and

said, I love the way that you just always

413

bring order to whatever we're doing.

414

Whether it's, you know, in the

meetings I'm like, Hey, you got.

415

Two minutes to say what you're gonna say.

416

Right.

417

'cause we are gonna end

this board meeting on time.

418

Yep.

419

And it's little things like that.

420

Yep.

421

And so they see me as effective

and efficient, but I also listen.

422

Mm-hmm.

423

But as the leader, I don't

see them as efficient.

424

I see them as all over the place,

but also needing direction.

425

Sure, sure.

426

And, and so for me and from my experience

and what I'm doing now is just inserting

427

rules.

428

Mm-hmm.

429

Or guidelines.

430

Mm-hmm.

431

Little by little by little.

432

It's not overwhelming.

433

I, I sat and listened to the first like

three or four board meetings and I was

434

like, we are going 45 minutes over and

you guys are just having a conversation.

435

Wendy Kidd: Mm-hmm.

436

Kendria Taylor: About nothing.

437

Mm.

438

That has to do with what we're

talking about, not board business.

439

So for me, I also started seeing board

members that just stopped showing up.

440

Wendy Kidd: That's always a bad sign.

441

Kendria Taylor: That's a bad sign.

442

We're not getting the work done.

443

And you, you, you also might be seen

as ineffective, lackadaisical, you

444

know, you don't know what you're doing.

445

There's so many perceptions that can

come from just being inefficient.

446

Mm-hmm.

447

Right.

448

So being able to, to just understand

even just a tiny bit about Robert's

449

Rules, you don't have to be a master.

450

Right, right, right.

451

But understanding how to stop and start

a meeting and give your secretarial.

452

All those things matter.

453

And I think inserting some

type of, but I'm a rule person.

454

Remember, my communication style

is all about how we succeed, how

455

I thrive as guidelines around me.

456

Another leader may insert fun before, Hey,

we're gonna have 15 minutes of talk time.

457

Mm-hmm.

458

And then we get down to business.

459

But to me, that's still a structure.

460

Right, right, right.

461

Inserting structure into what

you're doing, even if you're an

462

all over the place squiggly line.

463

Mm-hmm.

464

If you have a structured set agenda

and all of these things, people

465

will see you as fun but efficient.

466

Wendy Kidd: Exactly.

467

Kendria Taylor: Right.

468

And it takes work to get there.

469

Yeah, absolutely.

470

It takes to get there.

471

Wendy Kidd: Absolutely.

472

Absolutely.

473

Well, and I think that's.

474

We've gotta figure out as, and I

think, you know, I gotta send people

475

back to the first episode with you

with the feedback because mm-hmm.

476

If you're having conflict guaranteed,

it's part of the a perception issue.

477

Absolutely.

478

You know, people are projecting

onto you through their own filters.

479

Mm-hmm.

480

What they think.

481

And you know, like you said, if you're a

squiggly line, people might assume that

482

you're lackadaisical and lazy and whatnot

because you feel all over the place.

483

But if you put in some structure.

484

It helps communicate better.

485

Absolutely.

486

That you're not that, but you also

need to have that conversation

487

because a lot of times people don't

realize it's a problem until we're

488

now all in a very negative place.

489

And like you said, board

members not showing up.

490

Right, right.

491

That's right.

492

So, you know, I, I wanted to do

this whole episode just because I

493

don't feel like we name the beast

and we don't go, okay, this is a

494

perception problem and how do I fix it?

495

Instead, we just get

wound up in our feelings.

496

And how we perceive things.

497

Mm-hmm.

498

And instead of taking those

shoes off, we get, we got all

499

wound up and it just falls apart.

500

Kendria Taylor: And the reality

is, it is about our feelings.

501

Mm-hmm.

502

My perception is about

how I feel about you.

503

Yep.

504

Right?

505

Mm-hmm.

506

It's about our feelings, but if we are not

regulating what those feelings are mm-hmm.

507

To your point, I say,

you said name the Beast.

508

I say name and tame, right?

509

Yes.

510

Name and tame.

511

Yes.

512

So I am upset with you, so,

but why am I upset with Wendy?

513

Well, I really felt that you didn't

give me the opportunity, or I felt

514

I'm naming that actual feeling.

515

Yes.

516

Well, you embarrassed me, so I really, I

really feel embarrassed more than anger.

517

Right?

518

That embarrassment might

have turned into anger.

519

But let's name and tame it

because now I have this perception

520

of you that you're willing to

throw your people under the bus.

521

No, that's awful.

522

Yes.

523

Right.

524

No, I, I just, there was a moment where

I said something and you prob, I probably

525

should have took you to the side, but

maybe I wasn't even thinking about that.

526

So now I throw people under the bus.

527

Wendy Kidd: Mm-hmm.

528

Kendria Taylor: And that's not

the perception that, that I want.

529

And we need to clear that up quickly.

530

Right.

531

Because it is about how

I made that person feel.

532

And I think that's the

big thing about empathy.

533

How do you make your people feel?

534

Wendy Kidd: Mm-hmm.

535

Kendria Taylor: Right?

536

Yep.

537

If you make your people feel like,

you know, you're not supporting

538

them, supporting the mission, then

guess what they're gonna tell you?

539

You have no empathy for us.

540

You have no, you just

wanna get the work done.

541

You wanna, you wanna hit

the numbers, and guess what?

542

We all have numbers and that's important.

543

Mm-hmm.

544

But the people are equally

as poor as important.

545

Wendy Kidd: Yeah.

546

Kendria Taylor: Right.

547

And so that's why I think empathy

is the first way to start.

548

But you just brought up something so

great because we, we bring emotions into

549

the workplace, especially nonprofits

are, you know, it's all about emotions.

550

Emotional place about emotion.

551

Yes.

552

It's all heart.

553

It's all heart.

554

It's all heart.

555

Yeah.

556

You know, and for me it's

about the heart and the hands.

557

Mm-hmm.

558

Right?

559

Mm-hmm.

560

What's in your heart and what you will

do with your hands based on what's in

561

your heart, which means how are you

going to serve, you know, the, the

562

mission, the people that support the

mission and the people that are being

563

supported because of the mission?

564

Wendy Kidd: Yeah.

565

Kendria Taylor: Yeah.

566

Wendy Kidd: So, okay.

567

I'm gonna give you two specific scenarios.

568

I know we didn't talk

about this beforehand.

569

Okay.

570

So I'm putting you on the spot, but I

want to, I want to address two things that

571

I can hear people saying so many times.

572

Okay.

573

And it's either the ED coming to

me and saying, I can't stand my

574

board, we don't work well together.

575

I feel like I'm about to get fired.

576

What do I do?

577

Or the flip side where

the board is saying.

578

We don't get along with the ED, we don't

feel like they're getting their job done.

579

We don't know what to do

'cause we just don't get along.

580

Mm-hmm.

581

How can we help those people?

582

How can we help those people?

583

What steps can we advise them to take?

584

I'm, I'm already picturing it in

my head what you're gonna say, so

585

I'm waiting to see if it matches

up with what you actually say, but.

586

Kendria Taylor: So first I'm

gonna go back to communication.

587

Mm-hmm.

588

And here's what I will tell you.

589

I actually recently had,

uh, a board reach out to me.

590

And it was actually

the board chair mm-hmm.

591

Who reached out to me.

592

Mm-hmm.

593

And they said, we have some major

issues, not only with our, our

594

board, but our CEO and how that's

trickling down to our staff.

595

Yeah.

596

And so number that always happens.

597

It it always happens.

598

Yeah.

599

So if, if you, if your board comes to

you and say, we're just not getting

600

along with our, our ED mm-hmm.

601

Or ceo, um, and your, or your CEO

comes to you and says, I'm just

602

not getting along with my board.

603

First, I wanna know why.

604

Yep.

605

Are we in alignment with the mission?

606

Next thing, are we in alignment with how

to fulfill and execute on the mission?

607

Wendy Kidd: Mm-hmm.

608

Kendria Taylor: If those two things

are in place, then me and you are

609

just having a communication issue.

610

Whether it's I'm too direct

and you're not direct enough.

611

Whether I am not specific enough

for, for what needs to be done

612

or I'm not available, I'm.

613

There's a, or my performance

is not where it needs to be.

614

Mm-hmm.

615

Then those are the things we need

to tackle, but we need to get real

616

about what do we need to tackle now

if we don't agree on how to get to the

617

mission, well, how do we get there?

618

Mm-hmm.

619

Like, honestly, how did we get there?

620

So now I need to go back

and I need to figure out.

621

When we both, our, our

courses kind of split apart.

622

Yeah.

623

When did it diverge?

624

Yeah.

625

When did you go this direction?

626

And I went that direction.

627

And so that's the first thing I would

tell people to do is, and that's the first

628

thing I tell this organization to do.

629

Wendy Kidd: Mm-hmm.

630

Kendria Taylor: After she told

me, Hey, this is, these are some

631

of the things that are happening.

632

I said, okay.

633

First I would really love to

come in and do a communication

634

assessment with you all.

635

Mm-hmm.

636

Because I wanna make sure that

you're actually hearing each other.

637

Wendy Kidd: Yeah.

638

Right, because those, those filters,

that perception is in the way.

639

Kendria Taylor: The

perception is in the way.

640

It's in the way, and that's

the only thing that impacts our

641

communication most of the time.

642

Yep.

643

I have all these thoughts and feelings and

emotions that are happening and I haven't

644

really sat down to actually listen.

645

So today I was working with a group of

detention officers before I got here.

646

Wendy Kidd: Mm-hmm.

647

Kendria Taylor: And when I tell you

I had boomers, gen z, gen, I had

648

all, I had them all in the room.

649

Mm-hmm.

650

And man, they were going at it.

651

So I, I gave them the assignment

and I said, okay, tell me what you

652

don't like about this generation, or

what just gets on your last nerves?

653

And boy, did, did they have a good

time talking about what gets on their

654

nerves about each of the generations?

655

So I said, okay.

656

When, when it's your time, when

it's their time to talk about,

657

you know, your generation.

658

So my generation being Gen X.

659

When it's time for them to talk

about Gen X, I want all my Gen

660

Xers to write down everything that

everybody has to say about us.

661

So they did, and they were ready.

662

I said, now go back to your corners

and I want you to talk about, and they

663

were so ready to defend themselves.

664

I said, I want you to talk

about what is the kernel of

665

truth in what they are saying.

666

Mm, mm-hmm.

667

They were like, wait a minute.

668

No, that's not where we

thought you were going.

669

I was like, that's

exactly where I'm going.

670

What is the kernel of truth?

671

Sometimes we are not, we're having,

again, these conversations, these

672

perceptions, these, all these

emotions, these, all of these things.

673

I would tell the board, ED,

674

have a conversation

with your board members.

675

Bring 'em in one at a time

or all together, and then

676

find out, be retrospective.

677

Or introspective and say, what is the

kernel of truth in what they're saying?

678

Right.

679

Because there's, there's a, there's a

reason why they're saying what they're

680

saying and sometimes we can't hear it.

681

Mm-hmm.

682

But maybe it's not all true,

but what's the kernel of

683

truth in what they're saying?

684

Right.

685

And that really change, that can

really change the conversation.

686

Yeah.

687

Right.

688

So I would recommend that for

the Executive Director/CEO.

689

Wendy Kidd: Mm-hmm.

690

Kendria Taylor: Get some information,

get some feedback from your board,

691

even if you don't like it all.

692

And then find out what

the kind of truth is.

693

And even if you pick three things

and you say, I, I do that, I

694

really do that, they, okay.

695

They, they were right about that one.

696

Yeah.

697

These other 10, they're not.

698

Right.

699

Okay.

700

I don't care about the other 10.

701

What I do care about is the three that you

just identified is what you actually do.

702

Mm-hmm.

703

Work on those three.

704

I love that.

705

'cause later on, 'cause it's

too, I like to compartmentalize.

706

I can't work on 10 things at once, but I

can work on one or two or three things.

707

Right, right, right.

708

So for the ed, get that feedback

and then compartmentalize and then

709

start to work on those things.

710

Mm-hmm.

711

When it comes to the board, I would say

the same thing, but the board is a little

712

more broader than just that one person.

713

Right.

714

I would say to the board, the

mission that you've been supporting.

715

Kind of where are you at right now

and still supporting this mission?

716

I know it's, I know when it's time for

me to leave boards, I always know when

717

it's time for me to leave a board.

718

Mm-hmm.

719

Because I start to disconnect in a way.

720

So I always show up and

do what I need to do.

721

Right.

722

But I stop signing up for things to do.

723

Wendy Kidd: You stop doing

the above and beyond.

724

Kendria Taylor: I stopped

doing the above and beyond.

725

Yeah.

726

So when that happens, are you still,

are you still connected to the mission?

727

Do you still wanna drive?

728

And execute on the mission,

what has gotten in the way.

729

Mm-hmm.

730

And whatever has gotten in the way.

731

It could be, it could be family.

732

Yeah.

733

Right.

734

It could be, it could be what you're

doing for yourself now is just

735

not the top priority that it was.

736

And you have an obligation to that

board to say, it's time for me to go.

737

Wendy Kidd: Mm-hmm.

738

Kendria Taylor: Right?

739

Mm-hmm.

740

And so I, I think for board

members, it really is about,

741

for me, I assessed every year.

742

Yeah.

743

I assessed the impact that

I was making on the board.

744

And there was times where I was

like, oh, I did a really good job.

745

I brought this, this,

this, and this and this.

746

And there were times where when I

assessed the impact, it wasn't that great.

747

Yeah.

748

And I was like, okay, I'm not,

I'm not really making an impact.

749

Let me move on.

750

Wendy Kidd: Yeah.

751

Kendria Taylor: Right.

752

And so sometimes I think because

what's the perception that people

753

are having of me as a board member?

754

Wendy Kidd: Yep.

755

Kendria Taylor: You're

not thinking about that.

756

Wendy Kidd: You're not think about,

think you're sitting there, you're

757

doing your board meeting job, but

you're not really doing anything.

758

Right.

759

You're not being noticed,

not contributing.

760

And people notice.

761

Kendria Taylor: Right.

762

And people, and, and I mean

down to the people on the front

763

lines, they're like, we see.

764

Our board is of 25 people, but we see

the same 12 people every board meeting.

765

Wendy Kidd: Yeah.

766

Hear that all the time.

767

Kendria Taylor: Right?

768

So really assess the impact and I think

for the ED, send something out and

769

say, I would like for all of us to look

at the impact that we've made on the

770

organization, where we kind of wanna go

with the organization and if we wanna

771

go away from the organization, those are

hard questions, but ask those questions.

772

Absolutely.

773

So either scenario you're saying

start with yourself first.

774

Start with yourself.

775

You know, I'm, I'm always

talking about reflection.

776

Mm-hmm.

777

I give myself five years for every

board, but at year two I'm thinking,

778

okay, what was my impact for this board?

779

Wendy Kidd: Yeah.

780

Kendria Taylor: So, yeah.

781

Wendy Kidd: I love that.

782

Okay.

783

What have we not talked about that

you think we should talk about?

784

Kendria Taylor: I don't know because

you're such a great host, Wendy.

785

You're such a great host.

786

Wendy Kidd: I just wanna make

sure I don't miss anything.

787

Kendria Taylor: I don't know.

788

Let me think.

789

Because perception is one of those

things that we really could go down

790

a few rabbit holes of how to, because

I, it perception is everywhere.

791

It's all around us.

792

Yep.

793

Are we doing a perception check?

794

Yeah.

795

I know I do.

796

Every time I leave a training, I'm

like, oh, I coulda did this better.

797

I could have that better.

798

Mm-hmm.

799

I did this really good, but I really.

800

You know, and I, I don't

think most people do that.

801

Wendy Kidd: Well, you know's something.

802

I think a lot of smaller

nonprofits don't do well.

803

Mm-hmm.

804

And I love my smaller nonprofits.

805

That, that's my, that's

my, that's my crew.

806

Mm-hmm.

807

That's my crowd.

808

But they don't assess what the public

perception of their organization is.

809

They don't have anybody out

there asking that question.

810

They're not sending surveys.

811

Mm-hmm.

812

And I think that affects so much

of the, you know, are people

813

gonna wanna volunteer with you?

814

What's the, what's the rumor mill, right?

815

We all check the rumor

mill before we go join up.

816

Oh yeah, we can talk about that.

817

You know, absolutely.

818

Same thing for board members.

819

They don't wanna sign up if they

hear that it's a tough board or,

820

you know, they never get anywhere.

821

Or they're rudderless, you know, and they

don't know who to blame because they,

822

they're not living it, they're not in it.

823

Absolutely.

824

But you know, if you're not asking these

questions, if you're not, you know, ask

825

people when they leave why they left.

826

Yes.

827

Kendria Taylor: Get with your team and

find out what resources did we have this

828

year that we, or we didn't have this

year that we had last year, and why.

829

Mm-hmm.

830

I do this a lot with, I've worked with

every single last junior league in

831

the country, and I mean, all over the

country, including the one in Canada.

832

Mm-hmm.

833

And.

834

That's the first thing I say.

835

What, what have, what do

you not have this year?

836

Do you not have enough

people joining league?

837

Because that money goes towards

the mission that you have.

838

Do you not?

839

Are you not raising enough dollars?

840

And why not?

841

Did people not come

give the way they gave?

842

And why do you think that is?

843

Wendy Kidd: Mm-hmm.

844

Kendria Taylor: Right?

845

What resources are you losing?

846

So if you can't really start with, well, I

don't know what people's perceptions are.

847

I would ask, what resources

did we not have this year?

848

Right?

849

I'm telling you, that's gonna send

you down so many other questions.

850

Well, we don't have any resources

because this person, but why?

851

Because that's when you

start to ask the why.

852

Why, why, why, why?

853

So why didn't they give this year?

854

Ask them why they didn't give or

ask them why they, they they left,

855

asked them why they are no longer

active, but they wanted to sustain.

856

People will tell you, but.

857

You definitely need to your point,

yeah, you definitely need to ask, but

858

I would actually start, especially

for those smaller nonprofits.

859

Mm-hmm.

860

What resources did we not have this year?

861

And also what resources did we have?

862

Yep.

863

Because if you got all these resources.

864

Ask people, why did you give to us?

865

So gen Yeah.

866

Generously this year.

867

Yes.

868

Right?

869

Yes.

870

Oh, because we felt you did da, da, da.

871

Okay.

872

Guess what?

873

That's people's perception of you.

874

Yeah.

875

Do more of that.

876

Get that out there even more.

877

Wendy Kidd: Absolutely.

878

You know that you don't want

just the negative feedback.

879

You want the positive feedback too.

880

Right.

881

Again, we're going back to feedback, but,

882

Kendria Taylor: but,

883

Wendy Kidd: but that's what it is.

884

Yeah.

885

Kendria Taylor: Going

back to the rumor mill.

886

Yeah.

887

Okay.

888

What are the rumors?

889

Let's write 'em all down.

890

Okay.

891

Newsflash or something

you may not wanna hear.

892

What is the kernel of

truth to those rumors?

893

Yes, ma'am.

894

Right?

895

Mm-hmm.

896

Mm-hmm.

897

And if we can, if, if, if your listeners

don't walk away with anything else

898

today, when they think about perception,

what is the kernel of truth and what

899

people are already saying, right?

900

Good or bad, right.

901

Have some of those sessions.

902

Hey you guys, this week,

this is what happened.

903

What's the kernel of truth and

what was said about us in the news?

904

Mm-hmm.

905

What is the kernel of truth of why,

you know, um, this foundation gave to

906

us and they haven't given to us ever.

907

Yeah.

908

Like, those things are so

important and I don't think we,

909

we spend time defending ourselves.

910

We spend time trying to,

you know, do other things.

911

Sit down and just think what's the

kernel of truth in that rumor, right?

912

The reality is people are leaving leagues

across the country because they find them

913

catty, and there's a lot of conflict,

914

Wendy Kidd: not unheard of

in organizations, period.

915

Not just union leagues,

916

Kendria Taylor: right?

917

So what is the kernel

of truth to our league?

918

What's the kernel of

truth to our organization?

919

That's your starting point.

920

Yeah.

921

And then let's fix one or two things.

922

We'll add three or four more

and then you, you go from there,

923

but you do a systems check.

924

Yeah.

925

And your systems check is what is the

kernel of truth in what they're saying.

926

Wendy Kidd: I love that.

927

I think that's perfect.

928

That's exactly what we

wanted to talk about.

929

Good.

930

Thank you Ms.

931

Kendria.

932

Kendria Taylor: I appreciate it so much.

933

Thank you for having me.

934

Wendy Kidd: This was so great.

935

I am going to just challenge my listeners.

936

Okay.

937

I'm gonna say if anybody else thinks of

other things that they think we should

938

have addressed, come back and ask.

939

Absolutely.

940

Shoot, shoot me an email.

941

Reach out to us through LinkedIn.

942

We're both on there.

943

You can find us.

944

Um, because we might need to do just

a whole q and a session Absolutely.

945

Over this

946

stuff.

947

So sound good?

948

Kendria Taylor: Yeah.

949

I would love to hear some scenarios

that are kind of happening out there.

950

Yeah.

951

What, what went right,

what didn't go so Right.

952

Yeah.

953

So, yeah.

954

Yeah, for sure.

955

No, I love that.

956

Awesome.

957

I love that.

958

Thank you so much.

959

Thank you for having me.

960

Wendy Kidd: Of course.

961

And before we sign off today, I do wanna

let my listeners know I won't be releasing

962

new podcasts episodes on December 23rd and

December 30th due to the holiday season.

963

I'll be back with a fresh

episode on January 6th.

964

I wanna wish everyone a happy holidays and

I hope you all get time to rest and enjoy

965

family and friends in the next few weeks.

966

I know you are all out there

serving and I appreciate you.

967

So thanks for listening.

968

Thanks for listening

to The NonProfit Nook.

969

We're building better nonprofits together.

970

If you found today's episode

helpful, please subscribe.

971

Leave a review and share it with other

nonprofit leaders who need support.

972

Follow The NonProfit Nook on social

media and sign up for our email

973

list for extra tips and updates.

974

You can also visit The NonProfit Nook.com

975

to see the show notes and leave a comment

telling me what topics you want next.

976

Your feedback shapes the show.

977

See you next time.