#108 - Hospitality Meets Jane Sunley - The Proper People Person

Artwork for podcast Hospitality Meets... with Phil Street

Episode 108 • 20th April 2022 • Hospitality Meets... with Phil Street • Phil Street

00:00.00

philjstreet

Hello and welcome to the next episode of hospitality meets with me your host Phil Street today we're chatting to someone who kind of bridges the gap really between sectors within the industry and that's being someone who is very much recognized as a people specialist known by pretty much everyone under the sun, Jane Sunley

00:19.98

philjstreet

I think that's not it's not a pun by the way on your name and she's a speaker a bestselling author and founder and Ceo of that awesome lot over at the purple cubed I am of course talking about the wonderful Jane Sunley welcome to the show was it accurate.

00:33.48

Jane Sunley

Oh thank you so much and for such a lovely introduction.

00:39.71

philjstreet

Ah, that's general I I kind of know what you do but I kind of don't know what you do.

00:42.95

Jane Sunley

Yeah, a lot of people say that? yeah it was accurate. But who knows what purple cube does until I tell you you know? Yeah um I'm great. Thank you greetings from Los Angeles here this morning.

00:49.70

philjstreet

And did yeah, how are you anyway I was gonna say yeah you're this is this is quite. This is probably a first for the show in a few respects one you're doing this on your spare time and I'm forever grateful. For that. But your spare time is on the other side of the planet. Um, so yeah, whatever works I Guess fabulous and well ah, let's just get stuck in then let's take us all the way back I can imagine I mean you've been ah the the founder of this wonderful business for.

01:10.80

Jane Sunley

Yeah, absolutely.

01:25.66

philjstreet

Quite a number of years. How many years now is it really right? So but I'm guessing you didn't graduate straight out University and go I'm going to found a company.

01:27.20

Jane Sunley

21 this september

01:36.96

Jane Sunley

Yeah.

01:38.33

philjstreet

Doing that or whatever is that you did so take us all the way back to the beginning and and how did you kind of get in or associated with hospitality in the first place.

01:43.83

Jane Sunley

Yeah, it's ah it's a funny one really because um I suppose I used to I remember sitting on a bench at a bus stop with my friend when I was about 10 going. Oh there must be a better place for us than this and I kept thinking't because I grew up in quite a grotty bit of North Manchester

01:56.73

philjstreet

Right.

02:02.64

Jane Sunley

And you know I'd never do that down because it was great. Um, but I was thought what am I doing here. How did I get born here I should have been doing something else and I never knew how I was going to change that until I went into town one day with my mom and we stood outside the middle and hotel in Manchester. And I saw these quite wealthy looking people wandering in and out and I thought do you know? what? if I go and work in a place like that. Then maybe I can go and you know travel and move away from this place and all the rest of it. So I just always had in my head that hospitality was.

02:33.61

philjstreet

Nope.

02:36.56

Jane Sunley

Kind of a quiet way I mean it's a very away from motivation to to get away from where I was really and then I I want a scholarship to a really good girls school when I was 11 and went to this school where they wanted you to you know be a doctor or a lawyer or whatever. Um.

02:50.86

philjstreet

Right? yep.

02:53.51

Jane Sunley

All the rest of it and everybody stayed on in day levels and there was me and 1 other girl. The other scholarship girl actually who at 16 said we've had enough of this I mean you know great school um taught me everything and you know that was great, but. It was very regimented and I'm not really that person and I was always getting into trouble for you know smoking and getting up to naughty those things. But so I just thought um I don't smoke though.

03:18.50

philjstreet

Goodness. Nothing's really changed Jane i.

03:24.75

Jane Sunley

But yes, so when I was sixteen I thought marched off and said I'm going to leave now and go to catering college college and of course they were horrified because in those days it sort of put you into catering if you didn't really know what you wanted to do with yourself a nice that I really just wanted to cater because I want to go to hospitality because I want to work in a big hotel.

03:35.24

philjstreet

Right? right.

03:41.70

Jane Sunley

Um, so I got into you know all sorts of teachers trying to talk me out of it and everybody being terribly disappointed and they said to me, you know if you do this now you've blown your chance and you're never going to get anywhere which was very helpful of them I'm sure but you know for someone like me? Yeah, but it made me go. You know what? I'm just going to prove your old.

03:56.32

philjstreet

Goods gracious. Right.

04:01.58

Jane Sunley

So I went off to doing and d inulford college you know and then after that they said oh you're really good at this. You shouldn't leave and just go into the hospitality you should go and study a bit more so I went and did then what was Ama which is like the institute of hospitality used to have a qualification because there was no hospitality degree.

04:16.37

philjstreet

Right.

04:20.89

Jane Sunley

So that was the hospitality degree I suppose so I went and did that and that's how I got into catering and I'd always had loads of jobs because you know I liked going out and clubbing and stuff from being quite young and the only way I was going to be able to do to do that was have all these jobs I had loads of jobs in pubs and I worked in british home stores. In the staff canteen on a Saturday where they used to give me a big bag of mints and go do something with that. You know it was lost. You know, really? so I'd had loads of experience and just kept going and then went into hotels when I left. So.

04:53.45

philjstreet

Right? right? right? right? So um, a couple of things I've picked up from in there Actually you and I are cut from very similar cloths because the way to get me to do something is somebody to tell me that I'll never be able to do it. Um, that's not a message to anybody out there to.

05:12.44

Jane Sunley

Boy.

05:12.70

philjstreet

Test me on that by the way. But um I had a very similar experience at the beginning of my not beginning of my schooling um in home Economics I was really really I Loved food I Just didn't know if I wanted to do anything with it at the time I wasn't a particularly great home economist. Ah, suppose I didn't wasn't great at following recipes to the letter that are lost So when you're creating things that need you to do that you you know the the the end product perhaps wasn't the greatest and I remember my home anomics teacher telling me you will never do anything with food.

05:49.30

Jane Sunley

I guess.

05:51.22

philjstreet

and um yeah and ju know what and and it absolutely spur. It didn't spur me on so much as like right? Well I'm gonna prove you wrong. But I was like ah ah bet yeah bloody can do something was food. Thanks very much. Um and I ended up ultimately I was I was well that by the age of 20

06:02.35

Jane Sunley

It.

06:09.53

philjstreet

3 I was running food and beverage for piano cruises on one of their ships you know and so and I don't want to go go name in and n there. But but there we are yeah but I think you've kind of almost seems like you've broken down.

06:12.83

Jane Sunley

And.

06:18.68

Jane Sunley

But yeah, absolutely yeah.

06:27.92

philjstreet

How you're going to get you want you've got this vision in your head at this point in time that I want to go and work for places like that because that's going to broaden my mind my horizons. Um, how am I going to get there and you've decided that this is going to be a route that will help you get into that line of work.

06:43.90

Jane Sunley

Yeah, exactly that and also I I wanted to go move away from where I was and I thought hotels are all over the world. Don't they so Tim walks very far actually first 1

06:53.11

philjstreet

Yeah, yeah. Was so from from college where did you go what happened next.

07:00.98

Jane Sunley

And so I um I went to work in this hotel privately owned group of 3 small hotels in the north. So not very far from Manchester but um and I worked in this in this place called olden.

07:14.58

philjstreet

Got to start somewhere.

07:19.12

Jane Sunley

And then I had a bit of a disaster really my first job because I was so excited I came out of colleges and I've done really well and all the rest of it and all the were really were kind of big. Um you know graduate training programs with people like Hilton and things and there's nothing wrong with that. But it just wasn't for me, you know.

07:36.10

philjstreet

Yeah.

07:38.70

Jane Sunley

A little bit too regimented I thought I don't want to go on a graduate trade scheme I've had all this experience I've studied really hard I've done quite well I want to go and get a job anyway, I landed this job as a deputy manager in this hotel and I've thought I really done. Well, it is brilliant and I've been there three months and ive thought everything's going well and. Because I was a girl they gave me personnel you know which I knew nothing about me much knowledge I mean it was quite funny. It was there were no. There were no female managers I was it and then owners came that it was owned by some eastern europeans and the owners came to visit the hotel.

08:06.85

philjstreet

Right.

08:16.64

Jane Sunley

And they saw a lot to me and said what's she doing here and I said hello and I've Ja I'm the new Deputy Manager Miss You know Miss bring me over with enthusiasm and the event. Oh no, no no, we're not having any female managers literally it was a long time ago.

08:29.40

philjstreet

Um, really I get this.

08:33.94

Jane Sunley

And I said what you mean and they were like no no, you could you want to go and transfer into reception literally this happened to me, you know you could go be a reception manager and I said would be a reception manager I want to be what I'd studied to be and they said well you have to go then and my general manager was.

08:44.81

philjstreet

Yeah.

08:51.60

Jane Sunley

Absolutely mortified you can imagine he was just mortified and I was really upset that that I'd done really well to get this job I was flying along with it and I just thought you know what there's no point being anywhere where people don't want you and this guy rang round to everybody knew and said lot these awful things happened. Can you you know give this girl. Ah, job and I got this really um job in this really interesting place in a small kind of 3 Hree -star hotel in reading with this very eccentric holder guy who um, just sort of took pity on me basically and took me in so I packed up me trunk literally and off went. You know down to reading and god so yeah, well I've gone from this quite swanky. You know four five star hotel up there to this sort of 2 3 star hotel down there with 43 bedrooms tiny blades.

09:30.49

philjstreet

Yeah, you must must be getting a nose bleed at this point in time.

09:46.95

Jane Sunley

And I thought well I've just got to take this job because I can't go home with my tail between my legs. This just isn't going to work so I went to work in this thing and this is so embarrassing but in the big place. They used to call me by my surname these to call me Missborn I Miss smithborn then before I got married.

10:02.36

philjstreet

Right.

10:04.41

Jane Sunley

And really want to be called that because nobody's ever called me that before but I thought oh that's maybe that's what they call you for your manager and then I got to this new place and they all just started calling me by my first name and I thought oh I've really been demoted now because I'm back to being you know? okay.

10:17.28

philjstreet

Ah, not a member of the Royal family anymore.

10:21.10

Jane Sunley

Yeah, you know it was yeah sad Really and this place was hilarious because it was next door to a homeless shelter an Indian restaurant and a really rough across the road from a really rough pub so we were sort of. We had all sorts of interesting cleanele coming in and there were.

10:34.30

philjstreet

Fabulous.

10:39.49

Jane Sunley

You know fights outside and people used to come in and cause trouble in the bar. Of course it was mugggged there used to go and sort it out and actually it was most brilliant experience but it was sort of the least glamorous hotel job. You could ever have bear in mind I'd stood outside the midland going I Only weren't there anyway.

10:55.27

philjstreet

Um, yeah, yeah.

10:58.14

Jane Sunley

It was all very good for me. But the thing that then happened was that I'd I'd fallen in loveuv and weirdly I was only 22 we decided to get married and I just thought I'm never going to have this hotel career if I'm married. It's just not going to work I'll not you can do it now. But. Probably in those days it would have just been really difficult. He was in hotels as well and you know it was just too difficult so we decided very stupidly to this is probably the most stupid but the best thing I've ever done. We decided. We'd get married and move to London because that big London is where it's all at with no money. No jobs.

11:31.94

philjstreet

But our streets are paved with gold.

11:36.40

Jane Sunley

Nowhere to live so we arrive in London I've got 1 friend here who says oh come and sleep on our floor so bone in mine we were pretty much on our honeymoon. We'd only got married like two weeks before didn't have ah much of a honeymoon because with no money. Um, when to live on on this literally on this girl's floor. Um, at one stage she had 1 room in a house of 6 rooms and 1 bathroom and at one stage she was her her boyfriend another friend who'd come back traveling from France ah me and my husband Mike all in this tiny room trying to live together in some sort of semblance of order.

12:11.40

philjstreet

Interesting.

12:12.83

Jane Sunley

While we looked for job. Yeah, so anyway, eventually I got a job with compass group who are a massive you know food services fm company running the catering in a bank in the city and I was thinking contract coach and it's all leg and chips.

12:23.28

philjstreet

Yep.

12:31.67

Jane Sunley

And then I got there and it was amazing I mean it was like the budgets were fabulous and the food was amazing. The chefs were great and the daring was beautiful and and all the rest of it. So I thought oh well, that's all right then. So eventually I got job then he got a job then eventually eventually eventually we managed to rent the flat and.

12:49.91

philjstreet

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's ah it's kind of there's ah, a cracking a um ah a collector of Elite cookbooks So you and I do I don't necessarily do that to go and then emulate the recipe in my you know I can't follow recipe. Um.

12:50.11

Jane Sunley

You know I could go from there really.

13:05.90

Jane Sunley

Um, you just read them. Don't you you read them I see I've got them and I just sit and read them.

13:07.97

philjstreet

In my kitchen. But I yeah yeah, and there's a crack in one called the head and chefs which I've got um and it's ah it's actually recipes from lots of chefs from within the world of contract catering because. Effectively what you've got within the world of contract catering is Michelin quality food that you can never go to if you're just a guy on the street. Um, you know and and it's actually a genius book because there's so many of these talented chefs that.

13:33.50

Jane Sunley

And exactly.

13:42.92

philjstreet

Go into roles like that and as you say you know perhaps the perception in some instances is that they're effectively doing school dinners and you know cafe style food and whilst they they do. There is a simple offer generally. It comes with all of these places. There's also a really really elevated offer that that comes as well.

13:49.61

Jane Sunley

Yes.

13:58.18

Jane Sunley

Yeah, yeah, amazing of course the hours are fantastic because I went into this job doing 8 till four Monday to Friday whereas before I've been doing 90 hours a week and no days off for weeks on end. You know so it's like a part time job. It was fabulous.

14:02.91

philjstreet

Yeah, yeah.

14:11.59

philjstreet

Yeah, yeah.

14:16.48

Jane Sunley

More money I mean it's gray.

14:17.17

philjstreet

Yeah, yeah, so yeah, how long were you with compass.

14:22.52

Jane Sunley

ah 2 years and I was I'm ah I'm an operator by backgrounds I'm not an h child ah person actually despite being given this personnel role with the road guine. Um, and I was really ambitious I wanted to you know for the Md or whatever and I've just got a job. Ah, literally just got a job as an area manager so I was getting this area of my own of I don't know youve got 15 sites or something to look after and and I've been sort of half doing it when people went on holiday and things andny ran thought this is really good and you know I was going to get company calm I thought look company Carl this is great. And then the groupage chart director said oh I've got projects I want you to come and do I want you to start this recruitment this in-house recruitment business temps recruiting temps for compass in London and I said as written about recruitment and I certainly don't want to do that and.

15:09.75

philjstreet

Right.

15:15.73

Jane Sunley

And you know it was those days when they kind of looked you with a hard stare and said well if you do it. It'll be really good for your career and if you don't do it. It'll be really bad for your career. So I thought look I'll put this area job on hold for six months I'll come and set it up for you and then I'm out there because I absolutely don't want to run some temp recruitment.

15:22.83

philjstreet

Yeah, yeah.

15:34.93

Jane Sunley

Business I mean I couldn't think of anything worse to be done if anyway got I sort got into it started researching a bit and this is the eighty s the te agencies were like the tets were treated appallingly some of them had grills. You know, like in an old fashioned bank. There was like ah a grill so you couldn't get to the person on the other side.

15:38.40

philjstreet

Yep.

15:52.17

philjstreet

Yeah.

15:53.99

Jane Sunley

Some of these agencies would like that so you you weren't interacting really with the temps because it was too dangerous and it was just appalled and I thought how can you treat people like that so are things we set it up. We had a really nice waiting room with a Coca-cola vending machine in it and Tvs and.

15:58.86

philjstreet

Right.

16:12.70

Jane Sunley

Nice chairs and you know we didn't have any grills separating us from these scary people of course everybody was absolutely lovely and the odd too I think that were not so great. But you know we just sort of treating people like human beings and gave them training and looked after them and were really nice to them. And you know what they did a really good job and we were really really so.

16:29.74

philjstreet

Oh my who just thought that doing all of these things would would it. Well, it's mad mad to think that that's a usp right? at the time.

16:34.35

Jane Sunley

Well, and quite yeah at the time I mean that's shocking wasn't it really just to be you know, helpful and look after people and stuff so we did that and we ended up openingning four brown. She's in the end. Needless say I stayed longer than six months because after.

16:43.78

philjstreet

Yeah.

16:53.23

Jane Sunley

I'd sort of got going and thought oh this is great I'm not really into the recruitment but I'm certainly loving that setting up a small business and you know all that comes with that. Um, and then my boss at the time bought the agency from Compass because they'd had a change of board and they only wanted to have core. Stuff and they were like why I got this recruitment business. Why do we just outsource it so she very candidly she came from her family and venture capitalist so she had money and she said why don't I just buy it from take it off your hands compass. But by the way you can still be up client and then she said to me lot I don't really want run this. You run it and I'll sort of you know. In the background and do all the big Stuff. So I Thought you know what getting quite a good opportunity here to do something different and that's what I did so we grew it. Um I ended up staying quite a long time in the end I just had a bit of a wake up one day and thought you know making all this money for this family. Basically. Nothing wrong with that was very wellpa I A very nice car all that stuff but actually I just thought I should probably be doing something for me So I tried to buy it out which is the really dumb thing to do because you should never go into battle with.

17:55.43

philjstreet

Right.

18:04.24

Jane Sunley

People who know business and are in the Vc world and are used to really tough negotiations. So I failed miserably to buy this business and in the end I had a tiny shareholding and I just persuaded them to buy back my shares and off I went on my own to set up purple cubes.

18:20.53

philjstreet

Really so that that was why and the rest is history. There's nothing else happened since then. So thanks, Very much gene.

18:23.49

Jane Sunley

yeah well yeah now well the reason it I suppose and reason was because I'd seen all these people because by now we weren't just doing recruitment attemptts we were doing you know, permanent placements and headtones singing all the good stuff and I just kept seeing these people go into these jobs. And then either the job wasn't as promised or the manager was a fool or you know all these things that went on that people would be back in six months going well it wasn't quite what was expecting and can you find me not the job and I thought there's just just this massive gap in the market for someone to help companies retain their people.

18:49.95

philjstreet

Ah.

18:59.20

Jane Sunley

Because they were spending all this money on these recruitment fees which was very nice for those was in recruitment at the time but then they were just letting them walk out the door. It was just crazy so how did I would start the u case first people retention business. That's what we called it.

19:06.51

philjstreet

Yeah.

19:13.71

Jane Sunley

and and I mean nobody really talks about employee engagement. But there was the Mckinsey Warfa talent report came out Ninety Ninety nine so this was about that time and I just read this and saw you know it is the war for talent and I bet I can help companies do something about that. So I sort of wandered off and set up. In this well but there was me and another guy actually there was a guy who wanted to be a motivational speaker and I said well you come and you know you go out and do training and be a motivational speaker and I'll do the other stuff because I've had this idea for a piece of software by now. Couldn't afford to do of course because he would have cost millions but I did it anyway. Chris why not Um, so he was sort of about the learning stuff I'll tell you this story. Ah.

19:55.80

philjstreet

Yeah, there's hang on hang on hang on hang on there's there's that's that's a massive leap had this idea about a piece of software which ah couldn't afford but did it anyway. Okay.

20:04.21

Jane Sunley

Um.

20:12.15

Jane Sunley

Like so um, what I wanted to do I mean original I mean this isn't what our software is now. But originally I wanted something that would alternate the career dialogue. So so like an annual appraisal but that you could have some sort of dialogue that.

20:12.73

philjstreet

How did that happen then.

20:23.58

philjstreet

Okay.

20:29.82

Jane Sunley

You know, happened and something happened with the outcomes is when I was in compass I mean compass is a great company. You get great training all of that you have your aunt used to back in the day have your annual appraisal and then the papers used to go into someone's briefcase and bless them. They there were never you know they never saw the light of day again

20:46.10

philjstreet

Never seen again.

20:49.35

Jane Sunley

And nothing ever happens with it and ah and that was even in a really really good company where they did things really well and that's not cold know this whole thing is a bit broken. So I'd literally on the piece of paper written how this could work in an automated way and I mean I'm not a techy by background brand by any means.

20:53.33

philjstreet

Ah.

21:06.68

Jane Sunley

And I went to some software houses and said what would it cost to build this and they were like oh million pounds or whatever loads of money and I just didn't have that money and I think because I'd worked for venture capitalists and they at 1 point on the board in the recruitment business was me and 3 people from the same family who were all investors. And I'd sort of had to my feel of going. Well I've had an idea. Maybe we could do this and just being analyzed to the tenth degree and I thought you know what when I but own business I want just be able to try stuff and if it doesn't work. You know, fail fast and and move on if it doesn't work. We'll do something else.

21:32.71

philjstreet

Yeah, ripped apart.

21:43.19

Jane Sunley

So I I was really determined not to have any investment from outside which probably if I had back then I would have been sitting on an island by now sunning myself with a cocktail. But anyway it was my choice not to do that? Um, so I didn't want to do it and I was getting a bit fed up and I said to my brother-in-law. Um, getting really fed up I want to do this software thing and just can't find anybody to help me and he said oh go and talk to this man called Henry Stewart and I said who's Henry Stewart and he used to run this company. He still runs a company a very good company called happy and. What happy now does is all that workplace culture a bit like hers but nine nine mainly for the public sector. But the time Henry at happy had just got into um e-learning and online learning and that was quite new.

22:19.27

philjstreet

Flight.

22:29.17

Jane Sunley

Anyway, my brother-in-law said oh don't worry just call him and say Martin told me to call you and you know so I call him Martin I go martinty suddenly told me to call you and he's like yeah, right? then come and see me so I went to see him have this really good meeting. He really got what I was trying to do. He was really, he's very eccentric this man. Wonderful brilliant man. Um, and he was going. Yeah, this is fantastic. You should do it. You should do it and I can't afford to do it and he said do you know what? I really like you and I really like what you're trying to do I'll I'll just do it for you. Super cheap. You know I'll I'll get you a base product and you can take it from there. So I thought this is great. So I say to my brother and afterwards. Very much that was a great introduction. How do you know? Oh no I know id said to Henry how do you know my brother-in-law and he said I don't I've never heard of him so I said what do you mean? he said I've never heard you brother-in-law I don't know who he is at all. So why did you see me he said oh I don't know you sounded quite nice. So then I say to my brother-in-law. Well. Introduction. How do you know? Henry? but ah, I've known him years is Npr. My brother-inlaw. Let's draw no con conclusion from that. Um I haven't really known him for years. How exactly do you know him and he went oh I don't know I've just know him I said no that you don't know him at all d and he went. Um. Well no, but I so him speak at a conference once and he sounded exactly like the sort of person who would have helped you so I mean no, that's one of those mad fate things that and all got this thing off the ground if that hadn't happened so it's just a weird one isn't it anyway. So we managed to get some sort of basic.

23:51.22

philjstreet

Yeah.

24:02.57

Jane Sunley

Product built more or less I mean it was hilarious. It all kept going wrong. But you know I remember the first time we went it to a client they went. Oh can you show us the reports and we were like yeah we haven't got any of those yet have we were like yeah yeah, just it's just been work on at the moment on Gor reports. You know I mean it was so amatetuition.

24:06.29

philjstreet

Well I be.

24:13.28

philjstreet

Not yet.

24:21.40

Jane Sunley

Embarrassingly awful. But of course the rest of the business was going all right? we were doing. We don't do loads and loads of traditional type training now. But back then we used to do a lot of that and so that was bringing in cash I should probably go back one and mention that the day after I started this business was nine eleven

24:29.15

philjstreet

Right.

24:39.22

philjstreet

Good timing.

24:40.00

Jane Sunley

So all the business that I've got lined up on the books because you know I've been in recruitment I've known people I told them what it was going to do. They're like yeah, really interesting and come and do this for us all started to ring up and go O can we just put that on hold and I remember sitting in my head and my hands thinking? Oh my God I just started this business and I got.

24:57.70

philjstreet

Yeah, what is the choice. Yeah, totally. Um, yeah.

24:57.85

Jane Sunley

Nothing coming in and yeah, anyway, you just have to grit your teeth. Don't you because I'd you know I'd it more give you know two kids in walls beat all that oh oh my husband as well. Um, just a bit after i' started my business when oh I'm going to start a business evolve I've had this opportunity. So. Six months after I started mine. He started his so it's just matting our house really you know.

25:21.50

philjstreet

Yeah, but you know what they they you said it earlier on right feel feel fast and you know and take the learning from that quickly and evolve and move forward and and you know all of these things if if the last two years hasn't taught anybody about.

25:25.54

Jane Sunley

Yet.

25:37.81

philjstreet

Evolution and you know sideways thinking as opposed to blinkered thinking I mean what other opportunity are you ever going to have in your life to reassess direction. Um.

25:45.88

Jane Sunley

Absolutely And and I do think it's probably made people braver because it pushes you out of your comfort though it sounds as though you and I were out there anyway and and and I always think you know when you've. You've been there and even know much money and all the rest of it. You can only ever go Up. Can't you really whereas if you've always been in a position of being quite Comfortable. It's quite hard to go backwards I think I mean we talk about this all the time about our kids who've had a you know pretty privileged upbringing and it's.

26:03.63

philjstreet

Yep.

26:14.64

Jane Sunley

But Shocky when they suddenly realized that actually they get out in the big world and it's not quite as easy as when you're at home. You know so it.

26:19.41

philjstreet

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, well yeah I mean um strikes me as if you kind of went off plan a little bit. There was no midland hotel in there in that story.

26:27.37

Jane Sunley

Yeah, but and know I know do you know what? it I'm a massive believer in fate and I do think that there are things all around you that you can choose to see and grasp and there are things you can choose to to not grasp. And you know all the way. It's just gone a bit off Piece. You know if you just said to me at 20 What to be doing when I was 30 would have been completely different. But I think that's the wonderful thing I mean particularly about hospitality because there is so many facets of it I mean I still think of myself as if I'm in hospitality and I mean I'm not really.

26:58.54

philjstreet

Yeah.

27:04.58

Jane Sunley

You know we work with mainly hospitality with lots of different businesses I mean essentially we're consulting and software. We're not a hospitality business but I still think as ah as it. It feels of I belong there you know because hospitality peopleity people aren't they.

27:13.81

philjstreet

Yeah, yeah, well yeah, and I think we are the same you know I operate a recruitment company as my by day tag and.

27:23.86

Jane Sunley

Well.

27:28.24

philjstreet

I regard myself as being on the fringe of the industry but in actual facts you know where I'm still I Still love this industry more than ever. Um, you know and it doesn't mean just because I'm not operating something I mean operating I'm operating a business but I'm not operating a restaurant or a hotel or whatever that doesn't mean that my opinion.

27:34.38

Jane Sunley

Absolutely.

27:47.14

Jane Sunley

Exact clip and you're helping to make that industry better all the time and I mean that's what I love about my job is that you know if we can you know our company purposes transformation right? So if everybody we met. We left them just a little bit better than they were before in some way and some a lot better.

27:48.12

philjstreet

Matters less in how we can make things better.

28:07.70

Jane Sunley

You know, then you do in your job aren't you because it's all about moving for the water. Really? So yeah.

28:07.36

philjstreet

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and general it'ss something I think ah ah, and especially you mentioned Ninety Ninety Nine there was a war for talent I'm using the bunny rabbit ears a lot today and the yeah m.

28:20.18

Jane Sunley

No, and I do that too.

28:25.49

philjstreet

Um, but here we are in: 2022

28:32.80

Jane Sunley

Um, I mean I think people today think they've just coined this phrase. Don't they I remember somebody said to me with great a plum the other day you know there's a war for talent as if he'd made it up and I thought yeah I think we've been having that for 30 years really

28:46.41

philjstreet

Yeah, but you know what? I Also when when it comes to coming up with phrases like that. Um, whenever they're whenever it is or whoever it is that comes out with it at the time I Um the things like that kind of do my head in a little bit because it's such negative language around what we're In. At the moment. Actually we have the greatest opportunity in the history of the industry probably to draw a line in the sand and be able to really really push forward with you know, just wonderful practice across all businesses and I know that's whimsical.

29:23.22

Jane Sunley

But it's It's absolutely true and I'm going to comment on that I've got an error message here that says you have run out of free disk space to save the local backup of this data I Recommend you stop the recording I'm so yeah, stop the recording clear out some disk space to prevent.

29:24.24

philjstreet

But um, but I believe.

29:36.90

philjstreet

Is that what it says.

29:42.82

Jane Sunley

Potable data loss please see system requirements which is a link for more information shall I cease as long as you're recording your end. It doesn't matter does it or does it.

29:48.42

philjstreet

Okay, I'm not getting any so that's yeah, you've got ten point thirty five megabytes left is what I see um for for now. Yeah I'll keep it.

30:01.16

Jane Sunley

So it's probably an H I Just ignore this then okay lot like if we were chatting a way and then it wasn't recording that'll be bad and't it like so an opportunity to draw a line in the sand.

30:07.82

philjstreet

Um, keep this on and ah it will tell me when you're.

30:14.61

philjstreet

Yeah, no indeed at yeah.

30:20.73

Jane Sunley

And to make things better and I think it's huge silver lining of the whole mess of the last two years and you know some people are really embracing this and really changing the businesses. It's amazing.

30:31.54

philjstreet

Yeah, and that's the thing it needs an awful lot of people to do a lot of things and they or actually had a lot of people to do little things really, That's probably the reality and um and what I've definitely seen a mixed response in the sense that. Obviously people have been so anxious and keen to get their businesses back open again that it's just been about right? hit the ground running. We'll worry about everything else later.

30:56.56

Jane Sunley

Yeah I think that's right and there's a lot of um, sort of sacrificial stuff going on the moment when people are going Yeah feel terrible I'm just going to battle lot through and it'll be fine and we'll get there without any actual light at the end of the tunnel. And I'm constantly saying to people you've just got to make cells pull back even though it's really hard pull back work out. How are you going to make the light at the end of the tunnel because you know people were overwhelmed when they came back to work and they still are and unless you can do everything to to make them feel. Okay, it's just going to know they're all going to.

31:15.73

philjstreet

Yeah.

31:31.38

philjstreet

Yeah, absolutely did ah going back to I mean you said that you don't do an awful lot of kind of classroomy training type things anymore. But but just give us a snapshot of what does proper Cube now look like.

31:31.49

Jane Sunley

Implode Explode. Whatever No yeah, there is more.

31:44.27

Jane Sunley

Yeah, so so a third of the business is consulting and that's anything to do with workplace culture. So if you imagine that people put vast amounts of money into recruitment. Nothing wrong with that. Both been there. Um and less into retention. They put vast amounts of money into training but what they don't sometimes do is get the fundamentals right? So for instance, the company's culture. So if you've got a really negative toxic culture. You could. You know, recruit all the great people in the world and train them hundred times. But you're not going to get the best out of them and they're probably going to leave if you've got a terrible culture ditto if your leaders are not leading in a contemporary you know, positive way. Still you know there's the I think the the pandemic will.

32:27.50

philjstreet

Yeah.

32:38.50

Jane Sunley

Really cut off command and control leadership for a lot of people because people aren't just to be micromanaged anymore. They've all proved that they could stay at home and work perfectly. Well and possibly better and all the rest of it. So I think you know contemporary leadership or just a bit of a parody of leadership because I know lots of people say oh.

32:41.19

philjstreet

Yeah, yeah.

32:56.72

Jane Sunley

Had this great manager and then I got promoted and I worked for another manager and they were terrible and I went back 5 steps. So so we do a lot around communication leadership employer brand culture just making sure that people have got the right tools. So for instance, we went into one business where they have. 14 different people apps for their people to use for 1 thing or another and nothing integrated so we've done loads of work over the past few years just about making sure that people have got tools that talk to each other consumer grade tech then all these big clunky things.

33:17.30

philjstreet

Um, wow.

33:32.31

Jane Sunley

So a third of it is consorting around that and the 2 wo-th thirdds is our tech business which is mainly our talent toolbods product which is like a talent management dialogue driving reviews set goals monitor goal. Most of it is about getting really good metrics so you can know exactly what's going on and plan for the future.

33:50.11

philjstreet

Yeah.

33:52.30

Jane Sunley

And then we've got some sort of the little side products like we've got wellbeing tool and various sort of things like that and the software side sort of informs the consulting and the consulting informs the software. So we're a bit weird when it comes to software companies because we've got no outside investors.

33:55.64

philjstreet

Right.

34:08.46

Jane Sunley

So we're not under any pressure to sell tons of them and fact we only take um only take on maximum 12 clients a year which is not loads but that's because we want to have people that we get under the skin and their businesses we can work with them properly and we'll work with them for years. So typically we're not a quick fix.

34:21.61

philjstreet

Yeah, yeah.

34:25.62

Jane Sunley

I mean I've got clients that have worked with us for 20 years and then other people will do a project a consulting project. They might not talk to us again for ages but you know most of our clients are um what we call affinity clients people that we work with in a very close way where you know we give them advice for always there for them. But. These are products and services ready.

34:44.11

philjstreet

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and well I mean evolution at its finest because you know that's not what you actually started out as but look at where you've become.

34:53.55

Jane Sunley

Well exactly I mean the well-being stuff We do what when you do because it was pandemic. We thought oh let's make a well-being act for everybody you know, just because why not, it's a key. My guy he really did not he.

35:02.67

philjstreet

Yeah, yeah, absolutely M I mentioned at the top of the the show that you are also a speaker and bestselling author now little story behind the books because you and I met.

35:14.48

Jane Sunley

Um.

35:20.16

philjstreet

or five or six years ago or something like that was a really lovely meeting and I um I always remembered it fondly, especially when you handed me a copy of your book at the end which at the point I didn't know that you'd written the book and the title of that was it's never okay to kiss the interviewer.

35:35.33

Jane Sunley

Death.

35:37.50

philjstreet

So that's stuck with me forever because it's one. It's a great title for a book or certainly it's a great title for anything really to intrigue people as to oh there sounds like there's a story here. Is there a story around anybody ever kissing the interview that led you down that path.

35:51.92

Jane Sunley

Yeah, absolutely is so that was my second book. My first book I never set out to get a book published I'm not that person honestly. But I when the company was coming up to 10 years old I thought god we've amassed all this information and.

36:01.67

philjstreet

Right.

36:11.37

Jane Sunley

Stories and all this stuff. So I thought I'm going to write them into a book which would be a really good for any new people that we were taking on as a bit of a super onboarding but also we thought because we were 10 years old. We're going to this ten year party we could give to all our lovely law clients who we were going to come to this. Beautiful party at the haymarket hotel then we'd give them this book so I write this book and the person who was running marketing at the time said hey it's really good that she should get it published I was like oh god no I can't be bothered and all those rejections and no no no anyway unbeknown to me she sent it off to a few publishers and 1 of them picked it up. So the first book was called purple your people and it was basically how to be a great place to work fine. Very simple I mean my books are very, they're not Studios Academic books they're very practical loads of stories and stuff. So I wrote this book and it did all right and the publisher said well.

36:52.42

philjstreet

Right.

37:06.23

Jane Sunley

Could you write the other side of it. How to be a great employee and I thought sigh I'm far too busy to do all this really. But anyway as luck would have it about two weeks later um I'm a visiting fellow at Oxford Brooks University I went to do um, a talk to the masters students. About employability and this man quite a posh. Um well-spoken obviously from a very good family. This guy put his hand off so not a stupid man by any means he's on a master's degree. All the rest he put his hand up and said. If the interviewer is a lady is it okay to give her a case. yeah yeah I know and I mean I was so taken aback with a bit of a sharp intake of breath from all the girls in the room and I just said absolutely not under. No.

37:43.61

philjstreet

Oh my god.

37:57.65

Jane Sunley

Circumstances You know he'd give her a firm handshake as as you would with the man and off you go and I just thought it was because that they said not long before you should write this book and I just thought I'm going to write that book now because if if somebody likes that doesn't know that.

38:02.90

philjstreet

Yep.

38:14.42

Jane Sunley

What do less privileged people not know about employability and and the job. So then I was going to call it how not to hate your job which is 2 negatives in 1 sentence that ask me what I thought that because I'm not a negative person anyway, the publisher said no no no I love the interviewer story. We'll call it. It's never okay to kiss the interview.

38:16.70

philjstreet

Yeah.

38:31.76

philjstreet

Very good. Yeah, absolutely.

38:33.77

Jane Sunley

That's when about five years later I thought I better update the first book and then do it write in a completely different book called the people formula. So you know there you go.

38:43.81

philjstreet

Yeah, and what and the um, what did they say when you're writing a book that they get you to write out avatars as to who this book's for and all of that sort of thing and um and a lot of the time and I've had many a book idea and in fact I am writing a book at at the moment on the side. But.

39:00.98

Jane Sunley

My word.

39:03.34

philjstreet

Um, a lot of it is centers around who is this book for and I when I went into that process it was for me I was writing the book for me. This is a book that I would have loved to have had at the beginning of my.

39:16.25

Jane Sunley

Yet.

39:19.87

philjstreet

You know, not not even beginning of career kind of beginning of accepting that now I'm going out into the world on my own and you with these tools then you like that's what I would find that very very useful and um, but I said when I was writing this avatar was like but it just feels there has to be. I've run this idea through my head and maybe it's too simple. It says. Yes, but you're writing it for somebody Else. You're not writing it for you So that is a case in point if people were making those kind of mistakes that they need some guidance then yeah, you, you just never know.

39:54.10

Jane Sunley

Yeah.

39:58.45

philjstreet

Where where the knowledge knowledge bars. Do you.

39:59.22

Jane Sunley

Well, exactly we interviewed this guy once who literally had gone on about. Um you know what we were saying. What do you do and you spare time. It's like all I'm so I'm studious I'm very studied. Yeah, you know I'm always studying and always in the library and you know and and I was like what do you do for. Fun. Don't you go out and stuff he's like oh well, you know I don't have much time for that and it was really funny because we'd looked at his Twitter and it had said something like oh my god got off my face last night on the way for an interview and it was our interview so just like don't do stupid things like that. Either be really honest and say well I love a good side but I work really hard when I'm there or don't put it on your Twitter you know it's just stuff like heart. So yeah, that's one of my yeah.

40:40.69

philjstreet

Yeah, absolutely., But it's It's also it's a really interesting point though to write a book from that perspective as well because a lot of you know there's a lot of content out there on how to you know, make sure that your workplace is you know, perfect and wonderful and all of that sort of stuff. But nobody actually really talks about that. It's kind of an accepted knowledge that you'll be getting all of this stuff trip fed to you through school and your careers advisors and all of that. But the reality is is that the real world is a very different bogame.

41:11.49

Jane Sunley

But absolutely right and I men loads of young people not all at the once. But I mean over the years I've mentored loads of young people and I'm always astounded by how little of that they pick off. It's not their fault I mean why would you know.

41:23.71

philjstreet

Yeah.

41:26.34

Jane Sunley

They just don't know I and I get loads and they're like ah ah, don't know to get a job and stuff and you look at the Cv's terrible I mean you will see them all the time and how how many times the teach to do no no, it's I mean Cd that I mean i's supposed one to now it's online applications isn't it. But.

41:31.67

philjstreet

Yeah, yeah, it's not not just people starting out by the way. Yeah.

41:43.87

Jane Sunley

Sort of the Cvs I see and I think oh my God What did you write that for you know it's like bizarre but you your people people like us I think we're quite good at putting ourself in other people's shoes and that's what makes it easier to write the books because they're not you.

41:46.26

philjstreet

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

41:57.37

philjstreet

Yeah.

42:01.29

Jane Sunley

But I think there's a certain skill to putting yourself in that person's position and thinking about it from their perspective and I know you do that because I've met you a few times now and and it's that thing. So maybe that helps us to write these simple but effective books you know.

42:08.27

philjstreet

Bless you.

42:14.12

philjstreet

Who knows? well, it's not written yet. So it might not be effective ever. Um, but anyway 1 step 1 step at a time one step at a time. Um, ah conscious of time a little bit but um, yeah I know it's flying by isn't it m.

42:19.81

Jane Sunley

I Short where its murder though. Yeah.

42:26.33

Jane Sunley

Um, oh it's been fast.

42:32.48

philjstreet

Ah, question I'd like to ask everybody? Yeah, you've kind of covered a few points in this I think but what would be your top 3 reasons why somebody should join hospitality.

42:40.14

Jane Sunley

Yeah, ah, okay, um, first of all, you can learn amazing skills and I think we should have national service in hospitality. So everybody has to go through a year or something in hospitality.

42:51.73

philjstreet

Nice.

42:56.51

Jane Sunley

Because you learn things in hospitality that you would never learn anywhere else and I think that's what's wrong with the world actually because you learn resilience teamwork How to deal with people how to stand up for yourself. You know all those things how to be really organized how to deliver on your promises. You know the the standards in hospitality in terms of the skill sets.

43:11.72

philjstreet

Yep.

43:15.20

Jane Sunley

So high that you just don't get that anywhere else and I mean I meet bankers who have not got the organization and social skills of ah you know, ah a starting out person who's a server or something you know's so skills for a start two I think Sky's a limit if you're good and you determined and you want to work hard.

43:17.41

philjstreet

Yeah.

43:34.52

Jane Sunley

Could go anywhere with it literally anywhere and you know I mean I always remember there was a salary survey years ago and it said the average salary of a fives star general manager in part lay is three hundred thousand a year or something and I thought do you know what people don't realize that too like it's more now we so this this part. No.

43:35.28

philjstreet

Yeah.

43:46.37

philjstreet

No no that sort of stuff. Never really gets out does it.

43:53.23

Jane Sunley

So I mean there's that stuff and then I guess just the people and the food you know if you love food I Love food. You love food if you love food and you really like people what perfect industry to be surrounded by great people and we all look after ourselves. Don't we in hospitality I had.

44:07.99

philjstreet

Yeah.

44:10.12

Jane Sunley

Had a very beautiful lunch at the beverly hills hotel last week with a client so this is not on me but had this lovely lunch with a client from London and we were catching up and at the end and the chef came out think sex two chef came out say hello and all that and then nothing to do with me all to do with my client and then at the end when we came to build. To do the bill I said and that's okay, it's been taken care of and you know that's a I mean we would never have gone if we thought it was a free launch because we're not those people but you know that's just like hospitality just wants to look after its own and there's nothing like it I love that not just because the life love but it's the generosity of spirit is fantastic.

44:36.65

philjstreet

Yeah.

44:43.24

philjstreet

Here here. Totally and you know what I I was at the the back of the floor event on Friday evening at the royal like oh my god it's my first ever experience of it I like feel like I just want to shout about it forever because the the unity in the room was.

44:49.13

Jane Sunley

Take.

44:53.12

Jane Sunley

Now I look lawyer else.

45:04.76

Jane Sunley

Yeah.

45:07.28

philjstreet

Phenomenal the experiment it was. It was lots of serious hospital hospitalitarians letting their hair down you know and doing something really good. Um, and by god that I walked away from that feeling what 1 feeling knowing that I would have a hangover the next day. But um.

45:13.43

Jane Sunley

Yes.

45:26.45

philjstreet

But to um I Just it's it's things like that that really restore faith and confidence that we've got such a wonderful group of people stewarding this industry at the moment. Um, that let's use that let's absolutely shout about how good it is. Um.

45:30.51

Jane Sunley

Um, Ah, yeah. Talk like.

45:44.76

Jane Sunley

Absolutely, it's it's marvelous and I'm sorry I missed that event actually because it looks amazing and I kept seeing it coming up on social media thinking they have in such a good time there no knows Well, you know you can't have it always yeah, it would have been a bit.

45:44.86

philjstreet

For for all to hear.

45:54.29

philjstreet

Yeah I will let you off I think you're in Los Angeles so I'd been an expensive reason to come back? Yeah, absolutely and final question before you go actually.

46:03.54

Jane Sunley

Pushing the bitwater on that and ah, but yeah is a great industry and people need to know that for sure.

46:13.20

philjstreet

Final 2 questions before you go and then I'll say 3 questions 4 questions et cetera etc. But um and you've given us a couple of stories already are ah are we missing any other right I feel like you are such a stories based lady are we leaving any gems out there that should be heard.

46:23.84

Jane Sunley

Um, ah of course I've got a bit of a naughty ones say can decide whether you edit is out or not but when I got the job running this catering in this very swanky. It was a Scandinavian bank. Um.

46:33.20

philjstreet

Oh no I know definitely not.

46:43.76

Jane Sunley

And as I said it was you know, loaded the first day I got there. There were all these pulss lined outside and I thought Oho these are nice swanky cars. We'll do what they're doing there and they were like the house cars that people could just borrow I mean it was like that. Yeah I mean I couldn't borrow them because I was catering Obviously anyway, um but I had I had this.

46:53.85

philjstreet

Grow right.

47:02.42

Jane Sunley

Ah, so the relationship is you work for comass. But then you you report into also a client on site who's typically the head of Fm or something and I had the the client you know and I used to go for my wiki meeting with him and all this and used to go on very well Anyway, one time I was summoned on a not on a day when I'd normally go and see him. So I was summoned up the Er and he was very you know straight-laced and sat there looking at me and he said ah we've got a serious problem here and I said oh God you know what's gone on and and I always think it's me. Don't ask me why I was thinking Oh God What have I done you know what inadvertent I if I drop now you know Anyway, he said.

47:36.82

philjstreet

Yeah, yeah of the same.

47:41.12

Jane Sunley

He said I was walking through the um through the kitchen last night and I heard from the dry store I heard whoops and moans of a sexual nature like how I kept my straight my face straight so I was saying okay, could you tell who it might have been and he said well it was. 2 men so it was more outraged that it was 2 men than that it was the whoops and the moans of the sexual nature and I said well what would you like me to do about it and he said well I want you to get with those people and I said well we don't know who they are and he said well I need you to find out who they are and then I want them gone.

48:04.68

philjstreet

Right? right.

48:19.86

Jane Sunley

And in my head I sort of knew who I thought it probably was but of course you know so this gives me a dilemma because I'm thinking I've got to find out who these people are they obviously shouldn't have been doing that in the drystoll should they and certainly not making a bit of a noise while the guy was walking ah any anyway.

48:36.63

philjstreet

No.

48:39.77

Jane Sunley

It transpired upon a bit of investigation that it was a soou chef and a comedy Chef having a little experience off the off the record and because yes, very yes, Yes, ah very.

48:51.20

philjstreet

Making up their own recipes.

48:59.76

Jane Sunley

Anyway, um I did persuade them that perhaps it would be a good idea for them to look on the vacancy list that was there at the moment you know and perhaps apply for some jobs somewhere else. So I was able to sort of move them on into no lesser job and then so I didn't want to sack them I mean.

49:13.65

philjstreet

Right.

49:18.90

Jane Sunley

Stuff happens wasn't it really I know you shouldn't be doing that on a bag of flour or whatever. But you know I thought I'm not 1 for ruining people's careers because to make a stupid mistake because everybody's made a stupid mistake and you know there's a little bit of leeway there. So I was able to move on and move them on and keep the client happy and.

49:21.10

philjstreet

Doesn't it just.

49:27.98

philjstreet

Absolutely.

49:36.65

Jane Sunley

And all the rest of it but that was a funny story and then the other one from that time was um, there was a very austere elegant, Beautiful older head of the restaurant. We. We had all these directors dining rooms and she was head of all the dining rooms and. But and man there were no mobile phones then so she used to come into my tiny little officee in the afternoon supposedly to run her catalog right? like a clothing catalog and I.

49:59.58

philjstreet

Okay.

50:03.00

Jane Sunley

Ah, sort of used to go out of the office while she was doing it because it was so small. There was no room and I thought I saw I don't mind it using the phone. You know I'm going to sit out on one of the restaurant tables doing my paperwork Whatever but she kept doing all these things and everything she bought was either black or brown or anything she sold was black or brown and only ever in a size 12 or a size 14 and I kept thinking why is this woman in buying all these trousers or whatever in a size 12 size 14 black hole brown turned out. She was tealing drugss yeah ah yeah yeah I said to I said to my assistant manager. Why is she doing and went don't you know what? she's doing.

50:36.43

philjstreet

Goodness.

50:41.68

Jane Sunley

And I said no I mean I must be some sort of innocent person or something or was there and she was because like a twelve being a half of whatever they did them in I don't know half an ounce I don't know quarter. So so thoughtings of water. No he wouldn. Yeah and I mean this is in this.

50:51.91

philjstreet

So I I I'd love to be able to add anything.

51:00.29

Jane Sunley

Swanky bang and I mean you just wouldn't have known I mean she was like so scary this woman? um so I had to source poor stop to that which was really I mean I was yeah, really young. Um.

51:08.80

philjstreet

Really yeah.

51:13.63

Jane Sunley

Really young and I mean i' just said to a lot and know what you do and if don't stop I'll have to do something about it. So go and find on the phone to do your business and certainly do not bring into here. So yes, so there was also like sodo and Comemara There was all these things going on and there was me all innocent turning up just got married and you know.

51:22.33

philjstreet

Yeah.

51:32.36

Jane Sunley

Thinking oh my god whatever country that London you know that London yeah.

51:33.94

philjstreet

That that London yeah, but the um these things happen and they will always happen what they I mean at the at the end of the day you made the reference to it earlier on in the conversation about the that it teaches you resilience it teaches you how to deal with problems and you know and and and I think equally it sounds like the way you dealt with it is exactly you kind of with the lightest touch. It's not about just being aggressive and saying right get out or whatever you know the people do makes juppieros and sometimes the benefit that doubt works.

52:06.43

Jane Sunley

Yeah I mean um, maybe maybe I'm too nice but actually nobody really thinks I'm too nice I Don't think I don't know I just see I just see see it as it is and it's happening I'm not very emotional about stuff like that I'm not outraged I Just think just stop it and.

52:22.43

philjstreet

Yeah, this is an inconvenience.

52:25.40

Jane Sunley

Move on but I don't want to make it sound like hospitality is a hotbed of sex and drugs. But I mean it is part of life isn't it and you know I'd like to think that people are a bit less obvious about it. But yeah.

52:29.11

philjstreet

Ah, yeah. Yeah, and did great stuff. Yeah well. Um, what's the what's in store for for purple cubed for the for the next year and beyond.

52:47.62

Jane Sunley

Oh what? Ah good actually? um so obviously the last two years have been very up and down for us. But we had no but I mean the beauty of it is um you know I don't think we lost a client I think that's right? so.

52:53.84

philjstreet

They didn't they didn't It didn't happen that there was no last two years.

53:06.90

Jane Sunley

You know? So I think people kept in there with us and you know and some have come back with a vengeance which is great. Um, we have just completely rewritten our our software again because obviously we've had this product for so long that we have to keep reinventing it or it just wouldn't live.

53:09.58

philjstreet

Yeah.

53:19.46

philjstreet

Yeah.

53:21.45

Jane Sunley

And I like to think we're headed a game in this stuff and we always know the next big thing so we're about to do the next big thing which all will be revealed in July so that's good. Um and during the pandemic I gave all the people who work there. There's only 12 of us. They've all got shares actual shares not share options. So um, we're more of like.

53:41.15

philjstreet

Yeah.

53:41.40

Jane Sunley

Cooperative now in a way so that's different for us. Um, so we're making decisions in a different way and actually it's really great and it means I can step back and spend to moms in La you know, um you know still I'm still doing stuff I'm still seeing clients but I don't have to be physically there.

53:52.52

philjstreet

Yep.

53:58.60

Jane Sunley

That's another silver lining of the pandemic for me actually um so Joe my MD is absolutely we met her. She's fabulous. She does everything I basically do as I'm told now you know they go right? This think about that work that out. Go towards that person and I love that actually it's great.

54:05.75

philjstreet

Yep.

54:13.44

philjstreet

Great, yeah well and all of the the years of driving I suppose sometimes it's nice to be a passenger isn't it.

54:20.73

Jane Sunley

Yeah, no I mean it's been years and years of that and actually I never thought that I'd get to a place where I could work for my people rather than them working for me and it would be so completely equitable and great.

54:31.76

philjstreet

Yeah.

54:36.75

Jane Sunley

So I recommend that to any founders out there who are always interfering in their business. It just get you look like about people obviously and you've got to retain them and thank God we're really good at retaining our people but but we have to be really? um, but yeah I mean it's great actually.

54:39.83

philjstreet

Yeah, it.

54:50.16

philjstreet

Yeah, that's a fair point. Actually yeah yeah, if you're not good at retaining your people then then I mean it's like that there there's are near where I live. There's a guy who does driveways for a living and his driveway is shocking.

55:06.70

Jane Sunley

Yeah, you know no I well I mean we got Pras what you preach I mean Joe and I worked out the other day we haven't had to replace anybody for 7 years you know you take extra positions but we've never replaced anybody for 7 years which touchch wood.

55:06.76

philjstreet

Just never gets round to doing it I think he's too busy out doing other driveways. But you know you just think this of sort your own driveway out because absolutely really. Wow.

55:25.89

philjstreet

Yeah, for sure, not well you know I I've met you a couple of times now I met Joe at the rooms event that we did a few weeks back. Um, she seems in the mold. Um very grounded very passionate about what she does and actual fact I'm having a coffee weather in a couple of weeks as well. just just to

55:26.33

Jane Sunley

Good get rid actually.

55:42.34

Jane Sunley

Ah, Grey How well that's good.

55:45.85

philjstreet

Um, just to meet her properly and and stuff but no I salute you guys and what you're doing and I was privileged enough to to hear you talk at our event a couple of weeks back as well. The first time that I'd ever heard. You do anything like that. You absolutely know your onions and you um, you talk about it with such ease and passion. Um, so you're clearly doing something you were meant to do no doubt.

56:08.53

Jane Sunley

Thank you, Thank you very much I think I probably am yeah.

56:13.20

philjstreet

Bless you? Great stuff all right? Well I'll let you go and enjoy the fruits of L A and enjoy. However long it is you've got left it and thank you very much for sharing your story. Wonderful.

56:24.44

Jane Sunley

Um, well thank you so much for asking. It's been lovely.

56:30.73

philjstreet

Take Care Jane Thanks Very much bye.

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