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A relationship at a crossroads – Inside a couples coaching session
Episode 7515th December 2022 • Masculine & Feminine Dynamics • Lorin Krenn
00:00:00 01:19:57

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Aaron and Anna's relationship is at a critical point. In this special episode, the couple join Lorin to openly and honestly discuss what each of them needs, and what it feels like when those needs aren’t met.

Transcripts

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Welcome to the Lorin Krenn Podcast.

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I'm your host, Lorin Krenn, and it is my mission to help people experience deep intimacy through the power of masculine and feminine polarity.

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Today, I want to open my doors to my coaching practice, to you, my listeners.

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While I'm coaching a courageous couple, Aaron and Anna at a critical point in their relationship.

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Anna has an expectation of fidelity, but Aaron wants the freedom to explore.

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This session includes masculine and feminine polarity, shadow work, the fear of commitment, and much more.

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To make it even more insightful to you as my listener, I've included commentaries in key moments during the session.

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You will hear me commenting on what is happening at a specific moment, why it is happening, and from where it comes from, so that you not only witness a deep coaching session, but also understand the deeper dynamics at play.

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Without further ado, let's dive in.

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I would like to initiate this conversation with the following question, and I'm going to invite first Anna to answer and then I'm gonna invite Aaron to answer.

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And the first question is a very simple one.

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What would you describe to be the biggest challenge, the 10 out of 10 challenge that you experience with between one another, starting with you?

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I would say our internal templates of monogamy and agreements in a relationship

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Hm.

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And what do you mean by agreements?

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Agreements around exactly what monogamy entails.

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You know how, um, every, and it's interesting too cuz there are so many parts of this relationship that have been very nuanced and very revealing and a lot more open than what I've been used to in the past.

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And also in the past.

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Like I've never, I've never had the pattern of attracting people that were like unfaithful or, um, I've had to worry about anything related to trust.

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And, um, so I've never had to worry about what relationship agreements are in regards to like, what we can or can't do with the opposite sex.

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And um, and I feel like with Erin and I, and this has just been a very recurring thing since the beginning, is there's been a consistent, like I, you know, I, and I'll say I set, uh, agreements, it wasn't really a, Aaron didn't really contribute to like what his thoughts are on agreements for his.

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I don't think it would be like, you can't talk to guys or you can't do 1, 2, 3.

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You would have to do, I think, It would be a whole other realm.

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I don't really think that's something he's concerned about.

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Um, and for me, I think, yeah, just having those agreements very consistently be broken, which has led me to believe that, you know, Aaron isn't wrong for those things, but maybe this dynamic just does, our templates just don't fit.

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Um, because one of us would have to compromise on, you know, for me, I'd have to compromise on my safety and for him, he'd have to compromise on his freedom.

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So I think our biggest point has been, and this is why I, I think I had, I had a breaking point cuz we've, uh, and I don't know how much record you've had on this, but Aaron and I have been, we were best friends for a year and then we tried dating last December for a week.

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That didn't work out cuz of the like, freedom stuff and.

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We, um, we took a few months off of being friends and then we started dating.

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We've been dating now for about nine months, and then it's been very consistent almost every two weeks.

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There's been like a little break in agreements with me and I, I, the last one was pretty bad and after that I was like, maybe Aaron, we just want different things and maybe he would be happiest in a

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Can you tell me about that last one in just a few sentences so I understand really practically what that means?

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yeah.

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So there was a girl who, this exact girl was, um, we've, that she, she's been a person, recurring person and, um, he was heading out of town for a boy's trip and he had texted her to hang out and I saw because his, like a message came through on her, on his phone with her name and I asked him to open it and it was like, Hey, are you in town?

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I'm coming to visit.

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Thank you.

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Thank you for the, for the, um, clarity also here and now.

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Going to you, Erin, what would you describe to be the biggest challenge

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Well, um, I think certainly all of that, uh, potentially a, a difference in, you could say templates, I guess.

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Um, but I don't desire like a polyamorous relationship.

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I more desire a, a sensation of, um, like ease and spontaneity and joy and openness and exploration and, um, sensations of the sort.

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And, uh, I think early on, As far as providing like more details of, of our orientation within our own lives and then within with each other.

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Uh, Anna has been going through like a lot of stress in relation to work, in relation to, I mean, I think it was largely work and then, um, I became like a, a, a big part of the stress as well.

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That was like adding to to that.

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And I think there was, what I was, what I feel in Anna is this just kind of unfathomable level of sweetness and joy and kindness and um, like you probably gathered that from her a bit, just getting to like talk before we started recording and whatnot.

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So that's the part that I, I really, I really like yearn for.

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And when that is present, it doesn't, there's not a sensation for like, oh, I want to have the freedom to incorporate what you could, you know, call femininity in my life in the form of, you know, as you, as I think you're already like more well aware than most people.

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Like, femininity can mean a lot of things in including a, you know, an actual biological female.

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Uh, and so I think that was a thing that's been common for me of, of seeking a, a balance of that in my, my life.

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And I think within our relationship, and I could take as, as much responsibility as is necessary.

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Maybe, you know, upwards of a hundred percent responsibility.

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I doubt it would be just a hundred percent my responsibility for Anna's state.

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Um, but I'd be open to that and, and me being the, the.

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The sole origin of kind of creating more of like a closing.

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Um, and then within that it would turn to, and I, and I, I understand it, I think you know quite well how a woman or Anna in this instance, or a woman of kind of Anna's like perception and history and orientation, that it wouldn't be maybe even possible for her to feel open if she doesn't have like complete radical trust in the person.

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Particularly around something of like, does he want me the most, does he desire me the most?

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Like, am I the, am I the, the apple of his eye?

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What happens in those moments on a practical level, say, um, you feel, you don't feel that kindness, that warmth that you just mentioned before.

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I'm using my own language here as well.

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Um, you don't feel that from Anna in a particular moment.

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And let's just say, I mean, we can't label exactly what Anna is going for, but let's just say it's because of stress or whatever, right?

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And, and, and you don't feel that coming from her.

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What's the first thing that happens in your body?

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Uh, it would be a, uh, deflation, a blend.

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And sometimes there's like a sequencing, but like a, probably originally a contraction.

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Um, and like a hardening, I guess in a way, like a blocking, and then a, that will turn into if time, uh, it would turn into like a, since like a deflation.

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Hmm.

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And, and, and where do you feel that contractor in your body?

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Be like chest, abdomen type area.

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And then the deflation feels like, uh, more, more global, like a

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hmm.

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And do, do I understand correctly, correct me if I'm wrong, that it's not just in, in a moment, right?

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Five minutes, 10 minutes, or an evening where you feel that lack of warmth for kindness that you mentioned, but you're saying that this is for, for prolonged period of time.

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Um, yeah.

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Prolonged, you know, pretty much as, as long as it feels kind of like there's a, um, kinda like a closing on our connection.

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Yeah.

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And, and, and prolonged, let's just get even more practical.

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Are we talking in your own perception?

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And I'm gonna switch to Anna just a second.

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Um, in your own perception, are we talking a day?

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Are we talking two weeks?

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Are we talking a month?

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What are we talking about here?

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Typically like a day.

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A day.

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Okay, so we're talking a day, a closure.

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Okay.

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And Anna, when you hear that, that that closure, that what, what, what Aaron mentioned, um, what comes up inside you?

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I, I totally, I get that and I feel that, and I think, I think coming from the feminine when I met with that as well, it's, I can, I can relate to that and I can relate to that not feeling good.

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And there's been, I'm, I'm very, I think this is another area where Erin and I kind of are different.

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I don't wanna call, I don't know if this is a value in difference or just a texture and just our way of being, but like, I'm very work oriented.

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Um, I run a, you know, I run a big agency.

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I wanna sell it in a year or two.

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Like, I'm try, I'm really pushing to, like, I, I, I push, like I, I work a lot.

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. But my stress response, it's not that Aaron doesn't like necessarily, and I don't know, maybe he does, but in my mind I always have this story of like, oh, you'd want me to be one of those girls that like, doesn't work.

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And then what?

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You're like, you're gonna support me.

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Are you gonna, you know, like it just, to me, I'm like, I'd rather just, I work cuz I like it and I, there's a certain lifestyle that I really want that I never wanna be reliant on a guy to, to provide for me.

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So I wanna provide that for myself.

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Um, and I wanna be in a relationship where I'm met with that.

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So I don't, uh, you know, where there's icing on the cake, but I wanna, I don't ever wanna be reliant on somebody else for that.

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So, anyways, because of that, I work a lot and because of that, you know, I have a lot on my shoulders and I have certain days where I'm drained.

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And Aaron said I've been stressed out since he's met me.

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And it's true too.

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It's like around, you know, in the, the week that he reached out to that girl.

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I had a business partner deal that fell through and I got a million dollar lawsuit threat.

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So it was a big, it was like a heavy week for me.

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And um, and I do feel like we're, I felt very connected to you that week as well.

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Um, so that to me, it's like I, if it, I don't, also don't like hearing that cuz when I think about like, somebody that I spend the rest of my life with, I don't wanna feel like, what if I have a death in the family and I feel like shit for a week?

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Do I have to worry that my partner's gonna have a wandering eye cuz I'm not feminine enough that week that he's gonna stray?

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Or if, if I am stressed that he's gonna stray.

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I understand connection, maybe dwindling when that happens.

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But to have somebody that isn't committed and somebody whose agreements and word I cannot trust for the life of me at this point, doesn't feel good.

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Um, and this might be a challenging question here for you, Aaron, um, but let's, in the spirit of radical honesty, when you, let's, let's go into a moment here.

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Let's say Anna is, is in, is in, is in, is is working hard, right?

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She's really focused, she's really goal, goal orientated in that moment.

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And you look at her, right?

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What are your unconscious judgments in that moment of her, if there are any,

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it's, there's nothing, there's no, I have no judgment of around like, working hard.

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I find it to be really amazing.

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That's like my strong preference.

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Um, and it would be the, the, where there would potentially be, Judgment would be when there's no container around it, and it's a kind of like a, an ever present, thing.

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And so there wasn't really in the times that I would feel, I guess maybe kind of like hurt or, um, disconnected would be, it felt as though Anna kind of had like a, and I think we might have talked about this a little bit, but almost like an affair with, uh, work where it was, it was pulling what I gathered to be really like any vitality.

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There wasn't really vitality for the relationship or for, for me.

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And, and this is, you know, I might be embellishing right now.

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Um, you know, there, there, obviously I wouldn't have been around if there was like no vitality, but it was very clear.

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Like it was like an ongoing thing of, you know, if I could.

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The amount of times that Anna, and she hasn't said it at all this last like week since we've, we've actually been like in a really good place.

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Um, but it would be like, you know, I'm drained, was like Anna's mantra and you know, I'm really tired or I just, oh my God, I was doing this call and I'm, you know, I just feel like all of my energy is gone.

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And I'm like, okay, cool.

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So I'm, I'm kind of like, you know, feel like my, what I can do to be of service to you is to essentially be your nurturing feminine in a way.

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And so be like doing anything that I could, you know, find, to start to bring the energy levels so we could start to come to a point where we mutually have some fluid in our mutual cups to be able to start to engage in creating something.

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Um, and so that was, that was hard for me and I think that that would.

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Subconsciously lead to me to like yearning for, to like not be the feminine component.

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Um, and be seeking a sensation of just like ease and freedom and, and not the stress of how it's another stressful day and another drained day and another, you know, and then the challenging thing for me would be that it wasn't just, it was draining and stressful during the day.

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It was, okay, we're, I'm, I'm taking you out to a dinner someplace, or we're at the gym and I'm like, you know, trying to like have a thing and there's still, you know, this booty call coming in from checking slack messages or checking emails or whatever.

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And then some, a message would come in and it would be, oh my God, I found out something terrible about work.

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And I'm like, we're not working right now.

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Like we're, we're, we're doing, we're trying to have like a sacred connection right now.

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Like we're trying to have a container of that.

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And then I'm insensitive to the fact that something terrible happened within her work, because I'm like, we're not, this isn't work right now.

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Like, this is us doing a thing to try to like build a relationship.

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And then it becomes a, a battle around, well, I'm not being sensitive to this terrible thing that happened.

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And then, and it's the generally, if Anna and I were to get into an argument, um, Anna's much more, uh, I think strong, I guess in arguments you could say where like the only option out of said discussion, if it's, if it's like not a, a super nice one would be for me to concede and apologize and, you know, and so that's, you know, that would be a challenging thing as well.

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I didn't really anticipate this going into like, very specific of, of like gripes.

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Um, but yeah, that would be, that would be, uh, that would be the thing.

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And, and really what I was yearning for within the relationship would be just a, you know, enough time to be in a place where we are like in a good way to start to build momentum, you know?

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And the analogy I use is like, you know, blowing on an ember, it's like, cool, like we have some fire.

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This is so beautiful.

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Like, we both feel so good.

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Um, And then something else would happen.

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And then Anna's tendency within that would usually be to, to kinda like close the ember because, and this is where like my responsibility comes in, I think she has historically felt unsafe to cultivate an ember.

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you mentioned it already briefly a little bit just before I switch over to Anna.

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But you mentioned what you're yearning for in this moment.

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Um, simple question.

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What does Aaron's heart need the most, um, during these moments

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Well, anytime that there's stress, Or, um, something that, you know, doesn't feel good, Anna's vulnerability and, um, her, like, say like inner child, like the, like the, the girl, like the, and then there's different flavors of, I mean, I'm, I'm getting the girl with the, like, the anger and the shutdown that's, that is also the girl.

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Um, but a, a, a little bit of, I guess like space between the hurt But that's not easy for Anna historically speaking.

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Um, if there's a thing, it's like we're all the way in it.

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Um, and then, I mean, I think the big thing is, for me that's challenging is Anna's response, historically speaking, is typically the describe it she has, the, the girl, and then at one point, that girl, I think as a, you know, like a literal young girl, um, there was some, some hurt, particularly in relation to men, uh, particularly relation to, and, you know, Anna can speak for herself with this, but these are just things that she's spoken before,

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some repeating.

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let's, let's not go too deep into the story here.

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Um, Anna, when you hear this, what comes up inside you

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yeah.

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And I get that.

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I think it's just for me, I'm in, I'm in this like defense mode.

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If and when I feel like I'm being, um, when Aaron's being dishonest to me, cuz then I feel like I need to protect myself cause I can't trust him.

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So then my protector comes out versus opening my heart.

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So hearing, um, hearing all, just hearing everything about.

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Stress, all that.

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Like the example about the getting messages while we're spending time together.

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That was literally one time we were at the gym at 7:00 PM and I wasn't checking Slack.

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I got a text message and my phone, I didn't even open the text message for like a week, you know, you see the, I saw the first two lines and it hit me and I was just like, oh my God, Aaron, this thing happened.

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And his instant reaction was, why are you checking your phone?

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Why are you working instead of having compassion for this thing?

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That ended up being a very big deal.

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Um, I felt like I was with somebody who was judging me versus opening me up and being like being my teammate.

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In this situation, I wasn't working, I wasn't checking Slack.

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It came through as a notification from, it was Voxer actually, which I use for personal reasons.

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So anyways, that, I just wanted to, to clear that it's not like I'm this person that's in like perpetual, this crazy perpetual CEO stress mode.

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Um, I get, I go through bouts of that and I know that that's not the reasoning, that's not the core reasoning for like Aaron's infidelities because those, I know this from being his friend for a year before dating.

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That is something that he had struggled with cuz I noticed this yearning for, like, we've spoke about it before, like this, like, I don't wanna call it an addiction, but this compulsion towards.

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Not necessarily sexually, but attention wise.

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So he'd ask me to hang out as friends and I'd be like, no.

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And then he'd go call, text the next girl on his phone.

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Or I remember he asked me, he asked me on this Ayahuasca trip, I said, no, he invited another girl.

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Like it was, it's this need to, like, he can't sit with himself, especially when it comes to women.

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Um, so that was a big red flag for me before we dated and, uh, you know, in open conversation.

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And he gets upset for me saying this because I'm bringing up the past or like labeling him from the past.

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But who he was up until we started dating was somebody, he, he did say that he's had a wandering, I remember this like ingrained in my brain.

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Women remember things verbatim sometimes, but that he's had a wandering eye with every relationship he's had.

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As soon as he gets them, then he is like, Hmm, like what else?

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Kind of thing.

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So I like felt that immediately.

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And then also, it's like within the newness of our relationship, like two weeks into our relationship, he would al he already.

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Had gone on a date with the last girl he was dating, had her over at her house, was doing the like, multiple things with this one girl that he was dating right before me.

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And I would just like instantly at that point I was like, I can't trust this person.

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So I would keep asking him every couple weeks.

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So have you talked to her?

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Have you talked to her?

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Have you talked to her?

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And he is very honest and he would tell me yes, but that was still lies to me cuz I listed out what's okay and what's not okay for me when I'm in a relationship.

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So those things were on autopilot before my stress and before this.

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It just like, I see that, I understand that it, it's not helpful.

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And I do see this as being part of Aaron's template, whether or not he wants to admit it.

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And I also gave them mult.

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I've broken up with them multiple times over these things and every time I'm like, what are you gonna do to, to change this?

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Are you gonna go to therapy?

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Are you gonna go to Hoffman?

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Are you gonna go do men's work or fix this And not, I'm sorry, not fix it cuz it's not broken, but face it.

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And either embrace it or see it as something that's gonna get that's in self-sabotage.

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When there are many moments I call this macro and micro moments of, of creating distrust with the feminine.

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And um, sometimes there might be a gigantic moment of a, of a betrayal or something of that sort, which creates immense distrust and then it leads to something that's unrepairable or very difficult to repair.

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But then there is also something that I like to call micro moments of creating distrust.

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And this could be for instance, in what just Anna mentioned the wondering I, and then we go into the whole concept of leaking energy.

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Right.

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Um, the way I.

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I describe leaking of energy.

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This is different for every person.

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Some people might define leaking energy as, a very common argument, for instance, that men might make, and I'm not talking about Erin, I'm talking about men in general right now is while I didn't have sex or I didn't kiss her, so basically nothing happened and I'm completely in integrity.

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But when we're now asking women, when we are asking the feminine, feminine identified beings, any form of leaking in the sense of, in the sense of, could be a conversation, could be sharing intimate details of the relationship, anything along those lines could be described still as, as leaking of energy.

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And when there are micro moments of creating distrust again and again and again, that starts to add up.

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And then it becomes very, very difficult, um, for the feminine in general to open up, right, to open up to the masculine, to feel trust towards the masculine.

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And then what often happens is a dynamic starts where the feminine, I like to call this goes into interrogation modes.

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So there's, there comes kind of energy of protection and, and, and asking a lot of questions like, have you been doing this?

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Have you been doing that?

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And, and, and that of course then also, um, perpetuates this, this pattern even more that, that occurs in the relationship in a sense of that the, um, for instance, what Aaron mentioned here along the lines of, um, Not feeling her feminine energy, not feeling her softness, not feeling her vulnerability, but feeling more a kind of protective energy.

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Have you done this?

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Have you done that?

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Right?

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And there's no judgment towards any of that.

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But when I'm talking about, when I'm talking about this right now, how does that land for both of you starting with you and

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And I think that trust comes from, in the same way that trust can get broken by little leaks, it can also get built, built up by like knowing that like none of those little leaks have happened, you know, versus like a big grand gesture knowing that there's consistency within a relationship, like consistency with trust.

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So I do agree cuz we have had that conversation.

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He is like, I didn't cheat on it, I didn't like have sex with anyone, but I'm like, you pretty much did to me because we had agreements laid out and you've broken every single one.

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So that to me is cheating.

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in those moments when this, whatever we wanna call it, micro leaking of energy or whatever language you wanna put to this.

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Um, and you said in that moment, also not a challenging question, but in those, in those moments where said, yeah, basically I didn't cheat.

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Um, how do you feel about these things that happened?

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Like genuinely how do you feel about them

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so as Anna's talking, I'm trying to be respectful and just listen.

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And we've had Anna, I've had like probably one of the, the most connected last like weeks that we've, we've had for a while, which has really been nice.

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There hasn't been like really any, um, it's just been really like joyful and open and Anna.

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My experience with her and myself with her has been a lot of like vulnerability and kindness and compassion and like neutrality and like observation.

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Being able to like be with each other, which has been really like, just fulfilling to me.

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Um, and makes me want more, makes me wanna like lean in more and protect more and be the protector.

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Um, you know, which is really, it's just, it's a very, that's what I, you know, it's something that I, I really value.

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Um, and something that I, I, I would like to share just as a reflection, uh, I can hear as Anna is getting on a track of who I am, what I am.

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Very like titling absolute.

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I'll tell you who you are.

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Uh, one of the things she said is, I can't.

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Um, be with myself.

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So within that, that's a very, for me, a, a very like, highly disempowering

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statement to have as like my, you know, the person that I call my partner.

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and I, and I get where it is, and I'm, I'm willing to take upwards of 100% responsibility for, for that, that reflection.

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Um, but when I hear that and it becomes, and it feels combative.

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Combative, and it feels like more of like an attack and more of an interrogation and, you know, the shop is closed and it's just, I'm gonna attack you until you do all of these things that I demand of you.

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And then I'll, I'll open up eventually, and then you'll love me.

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Or then like, you'll love me now while I'm interrogating and attacking.

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You're gonna, you're gonna love me and then you're gonna love me long enough.

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And then I'll, I'll, I'll come out.

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And when I hear those absolute statements, what it makes me feel like is like, well, I'm losing regardless, so I should, I should at least be cultivating like, some form of relationship and connection and, and, and something in my life.

Speaker:

Cuz I, I, I'm, I'm being told who I am.

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And so that, to me, it doesn't allow any space.

Speaker:

And that's again, like, that's what I'm seeking is, is space.

Speaker:

Um, not space, like away from any, any person, but space to be able to breathe and observe and, and grow within my own.

Speaker:

Patterns or complexes or compulsions or, or nature or whatever it is.

Speaker:

I just wanna understand and I wanna be with, you know, Anna in this case to be able to understand her, um, you know, and, and really like be with those, those, those deepest parts and us grow together from a place of, of compassion as much as we can.

Speaker:

And also honoring like there's certain things that might hurt and might cause defense and cause you know, all of these sensations and be able to be with those.

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Aaron just mentioned something, something really crucial here.

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Part of the generational trauma of men that I have, that I would say that is in every single man in this world, right?

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We inherited from our fathers it's the fear of being a failure, right?

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I notice inside myself, I notice in so many men I've worked with these shows up everywhere, right?

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And, anything that reminds the masculine of, he's not showing up powerfully.

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He's not winning.

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Anything along those lines, especially when it's an absolute or when it's a really harsh or strong statement, right?

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From the feminine triggers this kind of generational trauma, which then often translates in, in defensiveness, for instance, or in needing to, in needing to prove a point and.

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What sometimes happens in these moments is that the feminine might express something very harshly, and then the masculine generational trauma gets triggered.

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And in this, in this moment, then it becomes all about improving that I am not a failure instead of listening to the deeper thing that she's saying.

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But of course, we also need to look at how she's saying it, because if the way she's saying it is, is harsh, is intense, or is perhaps even disrespectful to a certain degree, then of course that is also not okay.

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And, and, and the boundary needs to be set there.

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and, and, and one last thing I wanna share here.

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When it comes to generation trauma of the masculine, we can, we can kind of think of it in this way.

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The masculine goes for life often, especially men with very strong masculine core, go for life in the sense of, am I winning or am I failing?

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Am I winning or am I failing?

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And whenever there is a sensation of I'm winning, meaning my woman loves me, she tells me how happy she is, we have amazing intimacy, I'm doing well in my business, for instance, then, then, then I can give my full heart, right?

Speaker:

But the moment there is any sense of, I'm failing in any department, any, in any area of my life, whether it's my relationship, whether it's business or anything, there is an immediate sense of, there's a contraction, there's a need to defend, to prove.

Speaker:

And it goes into the whole realm of, of unworthiness in the, in the realm of, I, I'm not wary and now I need to prove that I am wary.

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That's a very, very deep wound that is ultimately in all men.

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And of course every man has it to a different degree based on how much work, how much work they do.

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Um, I always talk about the importance of both the feminine and the masculine and honoring each other's generational trauma.

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So, um, very important, right?

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That when the feminine notices, I'm triggering that generational trauma of I'm a failure, I'm a failure, right?

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For instance, something that when I do with female clients or something, um, is that the feminine then says, Hey, listen, for instance, right?

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Let's say in a moment, Aaron and says to you, What I mean is in these moments, that is how I feel.

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But I don't see you as a failure at all, or I don't see you like that at all.

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All the time.

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Right.

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And that often creates this immense space for the masculine.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

And Erin feel for a moment, how would that feel for you if she would say, Hey baby, wait, I didn't mean, I know I said it as an absolute, but I don't mean that you do this all the time.

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I just meant you did it in this moment.

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How would that feel?

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How would that feel to you, Aaron?

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I just feel like there's space to grow.

Speaker:

There's something to grow into

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mm Beautiful.

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Beautiful.

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Yeah.

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And Anna.

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And then I will ask another question to Erin, but Anna, is that something you feel like you could give in these moments?

Speaker:

Is that something you want to give in those moments?

Speaker:

Yeah, absolutely.

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And that is something that I can totally take accountability for.

Speaker:

That's, um, obviously in this moment we're very like grounded, calm, but I can get very reactionary and I think it's almost a cultural thing for me cuz now that I'm, you know, Erin and I read nonviolent communication together and, um, after reading that I noticed, you know, I've now been privy when I'm around my family and I see how often, um, es are used and, you know, like l language is so literal and just like to the point, um, which isn't always helpful in interpersonal communications like this.

Speaker:

So I, I know that's something that I need to and am working on and I do.

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Two things came up when Erin was sharing where one.

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And he's mentioned before too, like his biggest want and need in this relationship, like his agreement is open communication with me and being able to express without judgment.

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However, I will say the one thing that I will get reactive and judgmental on, you can talk to me about anything is other chicks.

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And I don't wanna be in a relationship where I'm constantly felt like that's needs to come up weekly.

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Hey, like X, Y, Z, because commitment is a choice.

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Yeah.

Speaker:

One second.

Speaker:

one second.

Speaker:

Sorry to interrupt you.

Speaker:

I don't want to be in a relationship with, when you hear that statement, Aaron, what happens inside you when you hear the statement of, it's a very common statement of the feminine, and there's nothing wrong with that statement, by the way.

Speaker:

Nothing.

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I mean it's just, yeah, it's just more closure.

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It's just like hard cement.

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So I just, I just kind of like when Anna gets hard and she goes into like the enforcer.

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I just kind of like, in these moments I notice myself closing my eyes and just allowing space for her.

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and, uh, there is a, a yearning to be seen and like a yearning to, to be like felt, but I just need to wait out the enforcer.

Speaker:

And, um, there's, there's nothing really that I can say or do if there's something that potentially suggests that Anna is not, uh, all the way chewable, all the way lovable, all the, like all the way the one.

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And if there's anything that threatens it doesn't need to be that.

Speaker:

But if there's anything that threatens around that with a radius, you know, of X amount of whatever, it's just full.

Speaker:

You know,

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Yeah.

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I can say or do.

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I like to say, the deeper the feminine core, the more in conversations the feminine will say, Will describe the experience of the present of as if it were a permanent experience, because this is how she perceives it in that moment.

Speaker:

Now, am I saying there is absolutely no responsibility for the feminine in that, in that area, and that's just how the feminine is?

Speaker:

No, that's not at all what I'm saying there.

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There is responsibility.

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There's always both in the dynamic, there's both of you here also in that dynamic.

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And there's responsibility for both of you to be taken, which you're both doing, which is beautiful to see by the way.

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But it's very common that a feminine, um, says for instance in a moment and very common like you are being this, you're being selfish or something like that.

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And then the masculine might.

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Yeah, but I'm not selfish all the time.

Speaker:

That's, that's not what I'm all the time.

Speaker:

Why do you call me selfish?

Speaker:

But you right now, you are selfish and you, you are always selfish, right?

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And of course there, there might be some unconscious communication, but often when you then there is a, a certain grounding happens or, um, the feminine feels safe again.

Speaker:

She will then say, well, actually maybe even five minutes later, right?

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The feminine might say, well, something I love about you is how selfless you are.

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Right?

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And, and that's not because the feminine is lying.

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That's just because the feminine tends to very often, i, I call this for the feminine oracle, right?

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The way she expresses herself in, in these moments can be, can be very, very intense, right?

Speaker:

Um, but what it, it's not an expression of who you are as a man.

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It's an expression of what is happening for her, the reality for her in this moment.

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Now, of course, if there is something.

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You fucking idiot, or something along those lines?

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No.

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Uh, yes.

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Okay.

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You can, you can, you can think that I'm a fucking idiot.

Speaker:

Well, hopefully not, but you cannot say that to me.

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Right?

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You cannot say that to me.

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And, and there's no excuse for that.

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That's just below the belt.

Speaker:

No way.

Speaker:

But still, right?

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As long as it doesn't go in a certain realm of complete disrespect, a very powerful approach from the mask in these moments can be, wow.

Speaker:

She's describing how she's feeling right now.

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And that sometimes can be very, very hard to take because, for instance, Anna said those very famous words here and these words where I don't want to be with a man, X, Y, Z, right?

Speaker:

However, that doesn't necessarily mean I don't want to be with you, Aaron.

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I don't want to be with you if you keep doing this all the time, and if you continue to this and never change this thing, right?

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And never do any growth around this, this is what it ultimately, what it ultimately means.

Speaker:

that really lands too, because this has come up with us a lot where in a given week Aaron will do like a few, like a few sweet really sweet things go out of his way and then like he'll do one misstep and I'll be like, you're so selfish.

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Or like, da da.

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And he'll be like, I did this, I did this, I did this.

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But for me, I'm like, yeah, I know.

Speaker:

And in this moment you were, you exhibited behaviors of somebody really selfish?

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Well, there's

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never this.

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I, I know that I'm using an absolute, but by never, I mean 99 point, like very high percent of the time is there is a, in this moment,

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what do you mean?

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It's a, I've been what I deem to be like pouring my heart to you and thinking about you and just thinking of ways that I can serve you and support you and like make your life feel good.

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And then something triggers, and then there's just, there's no memory of any of the positive and it's just full.

Speaker:

Like, this is you or shit, this is shit.

Speaker:

You can't, you, it's like a lot of like, oh, and I'm just like, is there anything that's okay and is in those moments?

Speaker:

Her truth is there is nothing that is okay and I can honor.

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But it's, it's not easy to navigate from my experience.

Speaker:

And I would, you know, something that I would love.

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I mean, I don't, I mean, I would love that actually, but some acknowledgement of like, oh, wow.

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Like, I get that this hasn't been easy for you, Aaron.

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I get that.

Speaker:

Like, like it wouldn't be easy for you in that experience to, to like, to not really feel appreciated or not feel these different things.

Speaker:

Uh, and just like, and, and like, uh, like I'm, I'm, you don't need to be sorry per se, but just an acknowledgement of like, I get that, that that would, could be hard.

Speaker:

And it's like, oh yeah.

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Like, okay.

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I feel a little bit seen, like, okay.

Speaker:

I feel a little bit of like placing yourself into my experience.

Speaker:

Aaron, back to the question I asked you before, something really important, we went into something else then.

Speaker:

How do you genuinely feel about these experiences that happened of micro infidelity or whatever we wanna label it?

Speaker:

Yeah.

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Um, not, not good.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It's not, it's not, it's not something that I, i, uh,

Speaker:

What meaning, do you give them about yourself?

Speaker:

I think in some ways I would say maybe like weakness, um, and, and, and weakness in the sense of like a part of me that I think that I could cultivate and like another kind of absolute.

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Anna, you know, you don't do anything.

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Like, I'm leaving in five days to sit alone with myself in a dark room and do, do absolutely nothing, but be alone in this thing called a darkness retreat.

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Um, that would be something that very few people would want to do.

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I think.

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Uh, it's something I don't really particularly wanna do, and a main, you know, function of that would be like, oh, something that I noticed with myself is I do yearn to be with people, you know, and have like the connections.

Speaker:

And sometimes if I am, you know, just idly, you know, alone, I'll have like a yearning of like, oh, I'd like to, you know, create something.

Speaker:

Some kind of like connection and like action, like something going on

Speaker:

Let's go back to your answer to what you said before.

Speaker:

You said, um, you said, you said weakness.

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You feel, you feel that, that there is a weakness in this.

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Are you okay if we call it micro infidelity?

Speaker:

Are you okay with that word product?

Speaker:

Yeah, sure.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So, and, and what else?

Speaker:

Um, well, yeah, so that's, so why I'm describing the doing the Darkness retreat thing as an example of something that I'm like doing to work on said weakness is, I think that that's within the weakness, a part of, like, where I would say I feel weak with that is maybe some level of shame around yearning for, uh, connect.

Speaker:

Which I don't know that, that's absolutely correct for me to feel that way.

Speaker:

And I mean, there's probably, I think it's probably like a little bit, and probably not as much as I feel about it, I would think.

Speaker:

Um, but I think that would probably be like the main thing of the weakness of like, oh, like I'd like to be more stoic, you know, and, and just like, cool.

Speaker:

I don't feel the need to have some form of femininity in my life.

Speaker:

You know?

Speaker:

I'm like totally good without that.

Speaker:

But the reality is, I, I do really like that.

Speaker:

And it does feel something that's like, and I think a part of it could be, well, probably is, uh, certain avoidances around deeper parts of myself, and then

Speaker:

a release in the form of femininity

Speaker:

what is it that you truly want from this relationship?

Speaker:

with Anna.

Speaker:

with Anna, if you had to sum it up in one or two sentences,

Speaker:

I want to grow into that person with each other where, that feels clear, you know, and it feels like that that is what we both desire.

Speaker:

And it feels like, like the friction that we've felt historically, um, doesn't exist.

Speaker:

I, I want like, like a sensation of ease and to build a, a life with each other

Speaker:

from a place of ease.

Speaker:

mm-hmm.

Speaker:

. Well, yeah.

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And, and just, are you guys both okay if I give you some feedback based on just something quick?

Speaker:

Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's interesting to me because, You mentioned before, Anna about not being compatible or something along those lines.

Speaker:

You didn't say it in that way, right?

Speaker:

You were saying as a kind of rhetorical question, right?

Speaker:

You didn't say we're incompatible, but I'm thinking about this when I'm an asking these direct questions.

Speaker:

What I'm ultimately hearing is that deep down you both want the same thing, just something to to throw in there, right?

Speaker:

That might look in certain way different, but deep down at the very core, it seems to me that you both want to create the same thing, and that ultimately is the most important thing in a relationship.

Speaker:

I call this relationship.

Speaker:

What's the deepest vision of this relationship?

Speaker:

And if, for instance, Aaron would say, I wanna be polyamorous and, um, be in a relationship with you, but then also go to other women from time to time, then obviously we can say most likely that, that that's just not going to work.

Speaker:

Because you both desire deep down really different things.

Speaker:

But from what I'm hearing here from Aaron, it's something very similar to what you have described before.

Speaker:

And how do you feel about that?

Speaker:

And when I say this,

Speaker:

I agree to a certain extent, but Aaron does want openness with women and it if, if, if it's something that we, if we spend the rest of our, like, lives together, that's almost been like a condition of that.

Speaker:

And he just, he said it's, it's always just kind of vague, like wanting fluidity and openness with that in the future.

Speaker:

And

Speaker:

that

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what does openness mean?

Speaker:

Uh,

Speaker:

I think as having the, the possible flexibility, not like the absolute like, oh, this is in two and a half years, we need to start going to, you know, swinging parties or whatever, you know, whatever the, whatever the thing is.

Speaker:

Um, or six months or 10 years or whatever the thing is.

Speaker:

But having the flexibility within each other's minds themselves and relationship to be able to be an observation of how we're mutually feeling, um, from, you know, through, with sexuality with each other, the possibility of maybe we wanna have, like the, the container of the relationship could shift.

Speaker:

It's not like I'm like, I need the container of the relationship to shift, but I think that just the pliability of mind to acknowledge the reality.

Speaker:

And this isn't really, maybe very romantic, but most relationships break up most relationships.

Speaker:

You know, 50% of relationships end in divorce.

Speaker:

You know, it's, it's like there's a lot of infidelity in the world.

Speaker:

Um, there's a lot of, if you look at it from a, you know, an evolutionary perspective, like who knows like what the correct relationship, like the best optimal relationship container is for the human species.

Speaker:

Anna.

Speaker:

Quick question here.

Speaker:

Thank you for your honesty.

Speaker:

Thank you for both.

Speaker:

For your honesty here, say your free years, you continue to be together for three years, and Erin suddenly comes to you and says, Anna, um, this is coming from my deepest heart.

Speaker:

I, how do you feel about opening up the relationship?

Speaker:

Would you describe that as a deal breaker in the sense of Aaron, I can no longer trust you, or would you be open to something like that?

Speaker:

deal breaker.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

Now that's very interesting to look at because

Speaker:

that's not going to be a potential challenge.

Speaker:

That's going to be a gigantic challenge for both of you.

Speaker:

Gigantic, because to me it sounds, correct me if I'm wrong, Aaron, that that is a possibility.

Speaker:

well, the, the openness, like I wouldn't want Anna to go and hook up with somebody without me there.

Speaker:

Um, the openness more would be the, Like the plethora of potential strange things that can happen in the, the, the in within relationships

Speaker:

You're talking specific fantasies or something along those lines.

Speaker:

threesomes sex parties.

Speaker:

Just like weird kinky stuff of like, that could, you know, like, it's not like, oh, this is my deepest desire.

Speaker:

Although I think that, you know, it's, that is a desire.

Speaker:

I think that's like, you know, the idea of of, of a threesome is like, that's like, oh, let's go with the person that I really love.

Speaker:

And like having to be able to share an experience like that where it's like, oh wow.

Speaker:

Like, like we are, we're so comfortable with each other.

Speaker:

And our sexuality and you know, just like safety within our relationship that there's lots of possibilities, you know, of, of what could be within, within sexuality.

Speaker:

Um, and so it's not, again, not like in 18 months, this is what I need.

Speaker:

It's like, it's like, it's like what, you know, five years, like just is there pliability of our sexual expression within safety with each other?

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

And, and, and let me just add on that as well.

Speaker:

I've, I do have a lot of close friends that do dabble in ethical non-monogamy, right?

Speaker:

Ethical is the key word here.

Speaker:

So there's no sneaking, there's no, it's, uh, under really clean and safe containers.

Speaker:

I have not had that.

Speaker:

So to me,

Speaker:

I'm not even thinking about that.

Speaker:

That's something you can maybe discuss if and when you have trust, you have commitment, you have devotion.

Speaker:

I don't have any of that.

Speaker:

So to me I hear that and I, my body just instantly

Speaker:

just like clenches

Speaker:

up.

Speaker:

I want nothing to do with that.

Speaker:

there's no judgment towards that because, I mean, I've got my own preference of how I want my relationship with my fiance to be.

Speaker:

Right?

Speaker:

And everyone has their own preference.

Speaker:

So there's no judgment also on my end in the realm of this is the right relationship, this is the wrong relationship.

Speaker:

Um, but what's definitely important is that both are on the same side in the realm of wanting the same thing, right?

Speaker:

Something that's, that's that I wanna bring in here.

Speaker:

Is clarity something that you desire more from?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And that's, you know, since, like I've mentioned, this has been a, I try not to use the word issue, but this has been a very recurring theme

Speaker:

in our partnership.

Speaker:

And, um, even in when we were like courting each other before we were in partnership was, it was constantly other women in the mix where he'd be with me and the next day he'd be with another girl and then he'd be with me.

Speaker:

And it just constantly, like other women has been like a very big part of this.

Speaker:

And for me, like ever since the beginning of us being in a relationship, I've asked him, I've been like, Aaron, what do you want?

Speaker:

Cause you, there is a world where you can be with a girl that's okay with you, you know, maybe you're not having sex with anybody else, but you go outta town, you hang out with, with another girl.

Speaker:

Or you have a girl over your house.

Speaker:

You go on a date with a girl and they do the same thing.

Speaker:

And there's nothing wrong or shameful about that.

Speaker:

And you both have that.

Speaker:

And for me, there is a, there is a scenario where I'm with somebody who, that's not like, on the table is such a necessity and requirement of being with me.

Speaker:

It's not though, like what you're saying isn't something that I, I, I desire or crave.

Speaker:

Then how come that's something you've been doing?

Speaker:

I've felt incredibly, um, I, I, I think like largely, um, Unfed, I guess that's

Speaker:

not an excuse, that's a re that's a reason for being unhappy and having a conversation and breaking up.

Speaker:

That's not an excuse for, for like lying and like sneaking around on someone.

Speaker:

And so just again, a reflection within our, a possibility of communication.

Speaker:

If I'm sharing something vulnerable, it would be really feel really nurturing and supportive to, to, to hear and not attack.

Speaker:

But in that situation, my op you, you present on the plate, you say, okay Erin, I want you to be vulnerable.

Speaker:

I want you to, I want you to like communicate something that's true and you're already ready to destroy me.

Speaker:

And so within that, it's not a safe space for me to be able to even explore like what is true and who am I and, and who am I to you because there's so much anger.

Speaker:

From, you know, within the relationship and I'm doing my best to try to please you, but there's just so much anger that's well before me and I'm catalyzing it, and I don't regularly get any level of responsibility from you.

Speaker:

It's just me.

Speaker:

So I should be responsible for you hanging out with other girls

Speaker:

for the, in the, I'm not gonna take responsibility for historically the, the, the lack of,

Speaker:

That's, gonna, going to interrupt here for a moment.

Speaker:

There is on both ends.

Speaker:

Both ends coming from both of you.

Speaker:

Uh, a labeling of each.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

Um, I hear that from both of you.

Speaker:

I hear that from Anna.

Speaker:

I hear that from you, Erin.

Speaker:

A labeling.

Speaker:

You have got this anger, you have got that anger.

Speaker:

Historically, Anna was sharing things before about you, and when we go into this realm, right, we're going into the realm of therapy coaching our partner.

Speaker:

And that is often or not often, that is always an intimacy or polarity.

Speaker:

When we're going to the realm of coaching or, or, or, or mentioning these things, right?

Speaker:

So with a client, these things might be incredibly important to discuss or with a close friend, something important.

Speaker:

But for instance, when we say to our partner in a moment of, in a moment of tension, you have got historically this anger and all these kind of things, and that's going to lead to further attention.

Speaker:

I invite you both to share something like that in a grounded place where both feel safe in that moment, safe to receive.

Speaker:

And then the whole conversation can start and, and, and can continue on a whole different level, right?

Speaker:

Because when there is tension, any form of blaming or you do this language will only create more tension, even though connection is what both in the end want.

Speaker:

So I invite you to both to look at that.

Speaker:

Um, yeah.

Speaker:

And and I, I, and I appreciate and everything is welcome here, right?

Speaker:

It's important that emotions come up, right?

Speaker:

If there, if nothing comes up and you both don't give a shit about anything, and it's like, yeah, whatever.

Speaker:

Yeah, okay.

Speaker:

Just talking to lore.

Speaker:

Yeah, I don't care really.

Speaker:

Then the relationship is doomed.

Speaker:

Anyway, guys, it's tuned.

Speaker:

It's good.

Speaker:

There needs to be reaction.

Speaker:

Listen, if there is friction, it's much better than a sense of, I don't give a shit anymore.

Speaker:

Then the numbness.

Speaker:

It's, it's, there's, there's that energy

Speaker:

It's friction of you do this, it's the intensity, and to bring this intensity, there is an inten.

Speaker:

Of course, this can be done in a more conscious way, but there is a level of caring and love in there.

Speaker:

We can talk about the expression of that, but I just wanna reflect it to both of you.

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Thank you.

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Yeah.

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There is this friction now, of course.

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Can that be communicated differently?

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Absolutely.

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But friction is always better than, like you said, very powerfully there.

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Anna than, than numbness, right?

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Than

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. And, and on the other side of that too, I know I've used this analogy with you before, but I see, and I don't know, and please call me out lore if this is like bullshit I'm throwing out there.

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But like for me, I've always, cuz I've been in relationships too, that like my emotions are stifled and my expression is stifled.

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And I see femininity is a dial, right?

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So like, if you want my passion, my joy, my happiness, you get the other side of that too, of the intensity of my emotion.

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However, it's being alchemized, right?

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So for me it's like I am very expressive and obviously I'm not gonna use that as an excuse to be angry or re reactive in ways and really like shadowy ways.

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However, I, I wanna be somebody that can fully express that that's who I am in my beingness.

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Cuz I do have very bright energy too.

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And that's kind of the other side.

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A very, a dynamic that is also very common between the Mara and the feminine.

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And I can see this dynamic in you guys and you throw this away if it doesn't land with you, take it in.

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If it does, is is Aon, for instance, perceiving in those moments and these things as an attack.

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As an attack.

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And you use that word Aon, and it's, it's very good that you use that word because it's important to talk about this.

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It's the kind of feeling attacked, right?

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Feeling attacked in our, in our sense of, in our sense of self worth as.

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Right.

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And, um, something very powerful here that I invite you to do, Aron, is being very aware of in these moments when, for instance, Anna shares intensely or whatever language you want to use for this, right?

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I'm using my own language for right Spicy.

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Let's use the word spicy.

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Let's use Anna's language.

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When Anna is sharing spicy, then something very, very, a very powerful practice for the masculine is in this moment, I call this, to notice what part in you gets really, really triggered.

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Usually what gets triggered is our sense of self worth, our shadow, and I call this allowing the shadow to burn.

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Now, of course, this doesn't mean Anna says, Hey, Erin, you're a piece of shit.

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And you're like, yeah, just let me take that in and let my shadow burn.

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I'm not talking about something like that.

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But she says something like, for instance, you're selfish.

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And if you have a very strong reaction to that errand, then that's showing you something.

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Because if you knew in your fucking heart and bulls that you, that selfishness is not a trait of yours, it's nowhere inside you then you would say in a very grounded way to her in that moment.

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Well, I don't in your own language, right?

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I don't agree with you.

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I know I am not selfish, but it would be different.

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It wouldn't be a, why do you call me selfish or I'm not selfish, or something like lines.

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It would be very grounded because there is a deep knowing, right?

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And that can be a very hard pill for us men sometimes to swallow in the realm of, fuck.

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Maybe there is a bit of truth there.

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Not, I'm a selfish freak all my life and I've been that all my life.

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But perhaps, perhaps just the acknowledgement.

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Anna, I hear you.

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In that moment.

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I acted selfishly.

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And paradoxically just seeing this truth or seeing that little bit in it, not I'm a selfish person.

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That creates often safety.

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It means safety in that moment and diffuses the moment.

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And so you mentioned before something I really want to please you in these moments, and you also mentioned I want to, in these moments when I get attacked by you, all I can do or all I need to do, I think you said, all I need to do is to just wait and, and, and hold space in that moment and, and then, and then talk to Anna when, when things calm down more.

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This is my own language by the way as well here.

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Um, you said it definitely differently, Prada.

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That's very interesting to me to hear because I'm going to challenge that.

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Is that really the only option in that moment?

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And true?

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I just haven't found an angle other than, um, Taking space like that.

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I haven't been able to, maybe I just don't have the, the resources to do so, but I've, I've kind of, from what I understand, how to interact with a, a human, um, I've attempted in those situations like every angle that I can possibly negotiate around.

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And they're just, we're not negotiate, but just investigate, explore.

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Um, and yeah, there's just, there, there, all I've found is just, there needs to be space to like diffuse.

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And for instance, let's, let's go into a moment here.

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Anna says, for instance, you are being this right in an absolute, she says it in an absolute, which is her responsibility also to look at in the, in this moment, which she has already talked about, that she, she also sort of accountable to that.

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But is that something you have done before that you have shared with her in a heated moment with sometimes what the feminine desires in the heated moment is, number one, to match the intensity of her heat.

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That doesn't mean to start screaming it or something along those lines, but to, for instance, in that moment when she's expressing very intense that the masculine takes a also a more furious sense in the sense of, I can see we're both disconnected right now.

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I really want to connect in this moment.

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I really want to connect with you right now, and I can hear that in this moment.

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I've been showing up selfishly.

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Right there is, um, it's very hard to put that into words, why exactly.

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But often what a feminine desire is in that moment is when it's a matching of intensity and a leading out of this moment.

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Right.

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Leading both out in this moment.

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Is that something you have done before A

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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She typically likes if I express rage.

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Yeah.

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And, and not even that, another expression of matching the potency is like being firm in your frame.

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That to me, being firm and solid in your frame is just as potent of an expression, I think.

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Versus sometimes it's almost like you condescendingly are like, alright, you're, I'm so wrong.

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You're right.

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Okay.

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I'm sorry.

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I'm gonna shut up.

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Kind of thing that's like, okay, that makes it worse.

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Versus Yeah, either matching me in in my rage.

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If there is something that you actually feel I've done to that, I don't wanna say deserves that, but if that's the best way to

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respond versus just, just to have any, any like I.

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sometimes there can be a misunderstanding in, in polarity teachings, for instance.

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I'm not saying this is the case here, but there can be a misunderstanding that holding space, um, or, or, or that the mask can always has to hold space, but it's often then can become a sense of positivity or a sense of just emotionally being detached from the conversation and the feminine in that moment is not desiring just the masculine to breathe deeply and to be there, which can insert moments be extremely beautiful and exactly what she needs.

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But I like to say what the feminine needs in each moment, in a heated moment is different.

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So there's an intuitive skill required.

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There is not this one practice, Hey, every man needs to do X, y, Z, and then the feminine will, um, go from upset to immediately feeling safe.

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It's that intuitive leadership and intuitive skill of, of feeling into her heart and feeling into what does she need or want from a urine from me in this moment.

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Sometimes it might be a boundary, it might be matching her intensity and saying, whoa, you cannot say this to me.

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But I also hear about the thing you said before I hear that what I want us to do is to connect in this moment.

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That's what I want us to do.

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Otherwise, we can revisit this conversation later.

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But, This makes no sense to keep talking like this and, and to keep hurting each other in this very moment.

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For instance, at other times it might be just holding space and saying, okay, I hear you.

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Something along those lines.

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Right?

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Yeah, I get that.

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I appreciate that.

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And that's a very powerful practice, Aaron, in the sense of not having a logical, I'm not saying that you have that right, but I feel very inspired to share this and for all the men who listen to this, by the way, as well in these moments, right?

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Not to have like a logical approach to, ah, this is the practice.

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Uh, upright posture, breath deep, and just hold space.

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But feeling into her and seeing, okay, what is needed of me or what is, what is in highest alignment?

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What's my deepest service in this moment?

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And that will change in every moment.

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And that can be a total game changer in the sense of, because I.

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Am almost a hundred percent sure by the way that you have the skill, Erin, not maybe in every argument that, but there are moments where, for instance, Anna will share intensely or spicy and you will feel into her heart and you will respond accordingly to that from your own power as a man and from your own intuition in that moment and, and your own skills and all the work you've done.

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And it will diffuse the moment.

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I don't believe that this is, the weight always will be in the sense of, ah, Anna goes into this mode and this is just how it is.

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We all lean back and wait.

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Aha, okay.

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And now we can continue our relationship again.

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You know, like, like we shared in, in this moment, we're technically broken up.

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So like what, you know, Aaron's going on his, his darkness retreat next week and I feel like we're, we've been in this bubble where it works.

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And again, like to me, I don't receive that.

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That's not a real relationship.

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The real relationship was the last nine months, which didn't work.

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Um, so I, yeah, I just, I don't know if maybe like taking, cuz I need to know that like Aaron can get clarity into what he actually wants.

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Cause there is a part of me that does think that maybe he, he would want more of an, a flexible relationship when I don't want that.

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Uh, so I would just need to know that he's either.

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Fully rooted in whichever route he wants to go.

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And if it is in the route of the, like, monogamy, what he's gonna be actually be doing to not let the last nine months repeat themselves.

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Cuz as much as possible, and I'm sorry to bring that up, but like, you know, we, we've had this, um, I don't wanna call like argument before where I've been like, you haven't been faithful for me for this long.

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And he's been like, what about now?

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What about the present?

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I'm like, that's all I know.

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Like, I don't, I, I don't know viscerally how to remove that from me.

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I need consistency with the trust in order for that to be the path forward.

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But that's all I know.

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So I, I don't know how else to feel safe in this situation.

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So for me it's like, I don't know if I need space so that way I can, like we can create something new.

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There, there, there are just a few questions that will create clarity in this moment that will bring a lot of clarity.

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But the reason why I don't ask these questions at the beginning is because first I wanna dig

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deep and find out one of the exact things.

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So I'm gonna ask you both a few very simple questions, very practical.

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Number one, a question to you, Anna.

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Do you feel like.

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You can or want to forgive Aaron for these moments of infidelity, and you don't have to answer immediately.

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That's very, very important to look at because here is the thing.

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Let's say Aaron goes to this darkness retreat, comes back and says, baby, I choose you fully.

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I want to be that man.

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I don't want any of those moments anymore and whatever.

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Just an example, right?

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And this is what I choose.

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This is what I want.

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And he shows up as powerful as he can because Aaron is a fucking powerful man.

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We both know that, and Aaron knows it as well, by the way, . But that's a very, very important thing because let's say that that would happen in a very binary world, right?

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That happens.

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Aaron comes to this truth inside himself.

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He shows up really powerfully.

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But then sometimes what can happen in the, for the feminine shadow is the realm of, okay, you're showing up so powerfully, but actually.

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I don't feel like we can repair this.

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Deep down, deep down.

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I feel like I don't trust you anymore.

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And this is then when the feminine starts to sabotage the relationship to a certain degree, um, in the sense of, well, but I don't fucking trust you.

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So it's so deep.

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So it's like you might consciously communicate, I want to trust him.

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I want to trust him.

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But then in the arguments, in the conversations, it always goes back to the same thing.

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And it's understandably that it goes back to the same thing if Aaron goes another moment of infidelity, but say that doesn't happen.

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But then it's very important your work in that progress.

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And then we'll talk about Aaron would be to really look at.

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Can I forgive it?

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And also, can I open myself to Aaron again?

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Of course, his actions will also show that it's not just on your end, but that's very important just to be mindful and to be aware of.

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Because if you sit with this and come to the answer, actually, trust is broken for me, then no matter what amazing thing Aaron does, it will always go back to the same thing.

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Well, actually, I don't trust you.

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And that of course then creates immense pain for Aaron because he feels like I'm fucking failing.

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I, I've changed, I'm showing up.

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And of course for you as well,

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yeah, I think I, I, I don't know the black and white answer, but I know I've wanted to trust Aaron for so long.

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That's why I've forgiven him so many times.

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But now I'm like, shit, am I

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have you forgiven?

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Um, by not breaking up with you.

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Yeah, but that's not necessarily what I'm That's not what I'm really talking about.

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Not breaking up is one thing, right?

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Because people can be in a relationship, but uh, could be completely, um, be completely unhappy or ex project their trauma onto each other, right?

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And that doesn't mean that that relationship is great just because they're together.

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An extreme example, I'm not talking that is, that is happening with you.

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I'm not talking about whether you are still together.

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What I'm talking about is this.

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And of course that goes both ways.

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You need to feel that level of trust from him that he's creating changes if he's not creating any changes and infidelity keeps securing, you cannot do anything.

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But this goes both ways.

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As hard as this, sometimes this pill is to swallow.

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It goes both ways.

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And it's very important to look at for yourself to sit with that.

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Is that something, if, if Aaron now, um, gives me that clarity of what he wants, right?

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And we'll talk about it in a second.

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To wrap it up, Aaron's responsibility here or that I, what I perceive to be his responsibility, let's say Aaron gives you that clarity.

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Can you forgive and trust again?

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And when you come to that deeper answer, yeah, that, that makes all the difference.

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Because if the answer is yes, then everything is possible.

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If the answer is no, and the feeling of like, ah, no, no, this is, this is it.

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I can't, I just can't, no matter what I do, then it'll always go there no matter what happens in the relationship.

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Now switching to Aaron for a moment here.

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Something I noticed, Aaron, in your speech is a vagueness, a vagueness in what you want from this relationship.

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And that might be my own judgment.

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And you might, you can throw that away, right?

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You can say, well, it doesn't land with me.

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You don't have to take it in, brother.

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But at the same time, I'm not here to please anyone.

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You both ask me for my really direct feedback and I'm going to give it even if afterwards, I, I get hated.

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Hopefully not , but What I noticed is, Aaron, there's a vagueness in, in, in, or a lack of clarity in, in regards of what you really fucking clearly want from this relationship.

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Because when I ask you, there has been a longer speech of the potential of flexibility, the potential of this.

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And to be honest, Aaron, I did not feel clarity from that answer because to me it was a mixture of, well, I want them a committed relationship, but then also I actually want the possibility of, of, of opening things up.

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But then actually I don't want to open things up and it's, it's more this and if, and I'm a man, right?

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And I'm not, and if I am, if I'm sensing, whoa, that's not clear to me.

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Um, of course then for the feminine clarity is, or especially from all my experience, right?

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I'm talking for the listener, right?

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And I'm not talking about Anna.

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Um, although it, she might most likely will agree because I can see her nodding a very clarity around what the fuck.

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The man I'm with clearly wants and with clarity.

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It's, it's, it's like in one sentence or in two sentence, this is what I want.

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I, for instance, I said to my woman, listen, I choose you fully.

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I want, and this is not about me.

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I'm just bringing my own thing in here just for the sake of being in service, right?

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This has nothing to do with me.

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But I said to her, listen, I choose you fully.

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I commit myself fully to you.

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I want to spend the rest of my life with you.

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And I don't want that any of us leaks in energy with other people in any way whatsoever.

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And she shared with me.

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That's the exact same thing I want.

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And yes, you gave an answer.

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I hear that you gave an answer, Erin, but what I'm looking for is more clarity in that answer.

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More a sense of, boom, this is what I want, and an energy of Anna.

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This is what I want.

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Bam, bam, bam, bam, period dot.

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Right.

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And that can be challenging because you might not know exactly what you want, but that's the practice of the masculine as I see it.

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So the practice I invite you to do err is to sit with that maybe in the darkness retreat and go really deep and be like, what do I really want from this relationship with Anna, with full clarity.

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And then there is a second piece just before we wrap up.

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and that is the piece of, what is your real fucking intention?

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And the reason why I'm using fucking is because I'm very passionate about this work.

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I'm not saying fucking for any

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other reason, but is, is your intention and you, this is something you have to sit with yourself is my intention to, to please Anna.

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Right?

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And, and in the sense of stopping the infidelity and all of that in order to please her, in order to get something from her, in order to get her to be more soft or something like that.

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Because if that is the intention at the deepest level, it's not going to work.

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It's too weak.

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I'm not talking about you being weak as a man.

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What I'm talking about is our intention in a relationship to make it really work, needs to come from the deepest fucking place.

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It ultimately needs to be about ourselves in the sense of I don't only choose this relationship.

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To, I don't choose this relationship to get something from the person.

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I choose this relationship, because of course I love that person, but also for my own evolution, because I feel that I am truly growing in this container.

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So the thing I Mo most importantly invite you to sit with is, Question is by, for instance, committing fully again and trying again.

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The relationship with Anna is that really what I feel gonna serve my deepest evolution as a man to be in this container, to repair the trust that has been broken, to make sure I work through that infidelity so it doesn't happen again to face whatever needs to face because it's going to be.

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Because this trust is there.

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That's going to be a hard journey for both.

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But if the intention from both ends is really coming from your deepest heart and deepest core, everything is possible, but it's not going to be an easy journey.

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Recreating, repairing trust is not easy, but it is possible, but only if it comes from a really deep intention.

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So it would need to be something like Aaron, for instance.

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You having the insight while the guidance, I really feel.

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That in this container with Anna, even though her challenges and all of that, that I am really evolving as a man, and that this is also serving me in, in my awakening at the highest level.

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And if that answer comes, then your intention is rooted in the most powerful fucking fire in this universe.

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And that's the fire that makes a man be able to work through almost any challenge that appears in a relationship because it's that hunger for growth of, okay, I'm fucking triggered.

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I just, I think I'm losing it in this moment.

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I just wanna break up and, and mindlessly do whatever.

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And, but no, I'm not gonna do it because I am so fucking hungry for growth.

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Right?

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And when you come to that answer, that's when things change.

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Thank you for listening to this episode.

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I'm so grateful to have you here.

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It would mean the world to me if you can share this episode on your social media or with one person whom you feel it will serve deeply.