Shownotes
Rebellious Peace - guest Lianne Terry
Jenn wilson
"Just because we think it doesn't mean it's true."— Lianne Terry
Jenn Wilson is joined by guest Lianne Terry
Lianne Terry (she/her/they) is a counsellor and psychotherapist working predominantly with the queer community, focusing on helping people build inner peace, self-acceptance, and healthier self-talk patterns.
Episode Overview
In this episode, Lianne explores what it means to cultivate inner peace, especially when navigating the complexities of identity, queerness, societal expectations, and long-held internalised beliefs. She discusses unpicking inherited narratives, rebuilding self-worth, and why labels can be both liberating and limiting. She also shares the inspiration behind her LGBTQIA+ wellbeing magazine.
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Connect with Lianne Terry
https://www.lianneterrycounselling.co.uk/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/embrace_your_best_queer_life/
About Lianne Terry:
Lianne is an empowering Psychotherapist who helps clients to find authentic happiness and consider self-discovery. Having been on her own journey to happiness and self-empowerment, Lianne is familiar with the challenges stemming from past wounds and from day-to day life.
She works with clients, either face-to-face or online, to discover their joy, find peace, heal their emotional wounds and forge ahead to lead happy and sucessful lives.
As a proud member of the LGBTQIA+ community, she specialises in supporting queer individuals with relationships, family dynamics and healing childhood wounds, she also publishes a quarterly LGBTQIA+ wellbeing magazine.
Episode Takeaway
Peace isn't quiet—it's authenticity. The path to it involves unlearning what isn’t ours, recognising our own voice, and valuing ourselves enough to rest, rebel, and rebuild.
Further Resources: links to offers from Irregular that are relevant to the episode
More about this episode:
Understanding inner peace vs. happiness as a goal.
Why peace can feel harder for queer people in unsafe cultures.
Recognising whose voice you're hearing when you self-criticise.
CBT-inspired techniques for challenging negative thoughts.
The emotional impact of labels—helpful lenses vs restrictive boxes.
Lianne’s LGBTQIA+ wellbeing magazine and amplifying community voices.
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Subscribe now for After Hours Bonus Content- click here
Or join The Irregular Membership and get Jenn’s support to start your own personal rebellion.
Season 2 Episode 17
Transcripts
Transcript
Jenn Wilson: Hello, everyone, and welcome to today's episode of the Irregular Humans Podcast with me, Jen Wilson. And my guest today is the wonderful Leanne Terry. Hi, Leanne!
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Hi, Jen, how you doing? Hi, everyone.
Jenn Wilson: And Leanne is working as a counsellor and therapist, mostly with people from the queer community, and…
Jenn Wilson: I've worked a little bit with Leanne on a wonderful publication that they do, which maybe we'll chat about in this podcast, too. So, Leanne, for the people that don't know you, tell us a little bit about you and what being the change you want to see in the world looks like for you.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): So, I'm Leanne, as you know. I am a counsellor, psychotherapist, working predominantly, but not solely, with the queer community.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And I think being the change for me is about empowering people to find happiness and peace, whatever that looks like, right? And it looks like something different for all of us. But I think lots and lots of us
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): live lives that are less than happy, and I think we all have the capacity within ourselves, I'm not talking about, like, external things, we all have the capacity within ourselves.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): to be peaceful, and I think sometimes it's about finding that, and I try and do that in lots of different ways and lots of different, mediums, but that's kind of my overarching, I guess, how I want to make change.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah, and that's… that finding… when you say peaceful…
Jenn Wilson: Do you mean… like, what do you mean by peaceful? Because I, like, you know, I would… I guess a kind of literal thing is being quiet, but I don't.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Yeah, I mean, that kind of inner… inner peace, I think, because I used to talk a lot about happiness and joy.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And I think that can be a little bit cliche, and people find happiness quite hard, but I think…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): thinking about just that inner… inner calm, that inner sense of being at peace with who you are, being at peace with… with the world. And the world can be a really difficult place, so it's finding niches of peace, I guess.
Jenn Wilson: serving.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): can find them. But building that for yourself, and yeah, I don't mean being quiet. In some cases, peace will mean being loud for some people, because that's how they find that peace within themselves.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): But yeah, I think comfort, maybe, is a better word, but yeah, just being really at peace with who you are and how you, how you move through the world.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think that you said happiness, for example. I went through a realisation a number of years ago now that I don't necessarily want happiness all the time. Happiness is nice, but happiness is fleeting. If you were happy, actively happy, all the time, you'd be exhausted.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): It would.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Really important to experience that full range of emotions, isn't it? If you're sad, be sad. You know, if you're angry, be angry. So that's why I kind of, yeah, reframed away from happiness to sort of, yeah, peace, inner peace.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah, yeah, I always think of the word contentment. Yeah, yeah, that's, yeah.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Yeah, it's like…
Jenn Wilson: It seems like such a quiet word.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And, like.
Jenn Wilson: It's not happiness, but it is so underrated, that deeper contentment.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Yeah, seriously.
Jenn Wilson: Yay.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And again, it doesn't have to be quiet, does it? Some people are content with being loud and moving through the world in a big way, and for some people, that's smaller, and that's okay.
Jenn Wilson: And working with people from the queer community, LGBTQIA plus people, Yeah. Do you find that…
Jenn Wilson: that is harder for people in the queer community, or… you know, what are people bringing to you? Obviously, you know, I'm not expecting you to breach any.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): No, no.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): I hate that.
Jenn Wilson: Cooler terms, yeah.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): harder… I suppose it's really subjective, isn't it? I guess one LGBT person will have a very different experience to another, in the same way that anybody.
Jenn Wilson: do it.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Ouch.
Jenn Wilson: Absolutely, we're all individuals, for sure. Yeah, it's so subjective. I think…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): for me.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): there will be a… there will be massive overlap here, so I'm generalizing maybe ever so slightly. I think it can be harder to find that piece that we're talking about, because
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): the world can feel really unsafe, and I know that the world feels very unsafe to lots of marginalised groups, so the world can feel very unsafe, but you can also feel quite unsafe within yourself.
Jenn Wilson: Mmm…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): I guess, if the thing that you're told should bring you peace is not the thing that brings you peace, if that makes sense. Or if the thing that you are told you are doesn't match up with who you feel you are. So I think it can be harder to get to that sort of,
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): That point of contentment.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): because… there's a lot more working against it, I suppose?
Jenn Wilson: Yeah, I mean, I think for me, as a person who only really recognized my… fully recognized my…
Jenn Wilson: bisexuality, and then later, my genderqueerness. My bisexuality, I only really recognised in my 40s.
Jenn Wilson: Because, yeah, because of the way the world…
Jenn Wilson: well, bisexuality, all of the media stuff is picking sides. You're either straight or you're gay, but, you know, and I thought, because I'd mostly had rela… I'd mostly presented as a woman and had relationships with men, that that meant that I was a straight man.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Yeah, you don't even question it, do you?
Jenn Wilson: Hmm.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): But inside, there will be somewhat of a dissonance, like, this isn't quite me, this doesn't fit, this doesn't feel right, and you can't always put your finger on it, because
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): certainly, I think in, sort of, I guess, 30s, 40s plus generations, you're not really taught to put your finger on it, or to look for it, or… I mean, even now, I guess, some kids are not taught that.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): So you're… you're very much pushed in a… in a direction that… yeah, you know, who doesn't want to get married and have kids and live a normal life in terms of that society's perception? And when that isn't you.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And it's kind of like, oh, what's wrong with me? And the problem becomes about you, and then we get internalised shame, and we get guilt, and we get…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): everything, really. And so we get to that point where that piece becomes harder and harder to reach, because you don't even know what you're looking for.
Jenn Wilson: Yes, when you don't see your own experiences reflected in the world around you very much. And I think you're absolutely right that it's still true now, although thankfully, you know.
Jenn Wilson: There's progress since, you know, Section 28, although we're seeing counter-progress in some ways Certainly for the trans community.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Absolutely.
Jenn Wilson: I know that… that despite the progress, I was talking to someone the other day, for example, who, for whom they're… they're someone who works with young people, and they're working with a young person at the moment who thinks that there's something wrong with them.
Jenn Wilson: Because their parents and the world around them and the people that they know are telling them.
Jenn Wilson: That their gender identity is all in their head, and, you know, that they should be normal, and that they should, you know…
Jenn Wilson: I'm wondering, though, for people, you know, for listeners to this podcast who may or may not be LGBTQ.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Yeah, of course, yeah.
Jenn Wilson: You know, what do you think that maybe the…
Jenn Wilson: the learning is there for… that's more universal about being yourself. How is it that you help people to kind of find that… them being themselves and stuff?
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Yeah, I think for me, I work a lot, I guess, with how we are valuing systems and how we value ourselves, because, yeah, there are lots of pockets of society and lots of individuals that have been devalued, or that feel that they have low value.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And it can be really hard to kind of move away from that. And a big part of that for me is recognising
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): and I mean, I'm really scratching the surface here, but a big part for me is recognising what is… what is your own voice, and what is the voice of somebody else. So when you hear yourself being critical, or when you hear yourself saying, oh, that was stupid, or can't believe I just did that, or…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Why are you dressing like that? Or who are you to do this? Or, you know, all of those things that we say to ourselves pretty much on the daily, negative automatic thoughts.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Whose voice is that? And it's thinking about that. Is that your voice? Where did you first hear that? Who told you that you were lazy, or who told you that you were?
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): I don't know, too much, or too little, or whatever the thing is.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And then it's looking at, well, why did they say that, and what was that for? And it's kind of really digging in, going in quite deep, and rooting those things out, and thinking about, well, what are the messages that I want to send to myself? What are my actual values? Are they mine, or are they somebody else's? And I think…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): it's almost like a stripping back and a reweaving, I guess, process.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And, you know, it's something that I work with on a daily basis for lots and lots of different reasons. I mean, even general anxiety, for example, if you're anxious about,
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): I don't know, I used to have real anxiety many years ago about this really, really, really specific anxiety, that I was going to be sick on the train, right? And I'd have panic attacks on the train, in case I was sick, and
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): it's kind of like recognising, well, where does that fear come from? And for me, I think from… I mean, I think we can never really be 100% sure, but I think from digging back, it's kind of from, like.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): I guess learning that things like that are a bit embarrassing, and so not wanting to embarrass myself, but who told me it was embarrassing? And it's kind of like, how do we learn? Like, we move through the world.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): With a strict set of rules that society and our parents and teachers and friends and everybody imposes on us, and it's absolutely unavoidable, like.
Jenn Wilson: I think I'm aware that I'm going off on a little bit of a tangent, but I think it's relevant. Like.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): My kids, I've got two daughters, and when they start… when they were born, I was like, I'm never gonna say to them that this is for girls, or this is for boys, I'm just gonna let them find their way, right? So I have never, ever once said these words to my kids, and yet they will come home and say them to me, football's for boys, we can't play football, it's for boys.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And, like, with the knowledge that I've never said that, I know that that comes from friends, or school, or… there's so many influences on us as humans.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): That I think it's really, really important for all of us, for absolutely all of us, to spend some time unpicking, where did I get this message, what does it mean, and does it still hold value for me? Because I'm sure my kids at some point will get to the point where they're like, well, why can't we do that thing?
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And at that point, they'll let go of that value.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And I, I think, yeah, I think it's really important that we think about the… just what… the little things that go through our head, and where they come from, and why.
Jenn Wilson: Absolutely. It was really very much, at the core of the work that I do as well, around people's consent, and their consent
Jenn Wilson: You know, because the way that we're exp… that those systemic, cultural, social beliefs shape Our.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): opinions and our insidious beliefs.
Jenn Wilson: about what's possible and what we can and can't do. I mean, putting… putting…
Jenn Wilson: obstacles in our way that it's kind of a giving ourselves permission.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And it's exactly that, what you've just said. There's so many messages that we receive, and we take all of them in, and there is a figure, I can't remember what it is, about, like, the amount of messages that we receive every single day. But there's absolutely thousands, if not millions. And we take them all in, particularly as kids, because we're really… we're like sponges, aren't we? We take absolutely everything in.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And it… it all sticks in some way or another. You know, I've got clients that I work with who someone will have said something that seemed really, really minor. Like, 30 years ago when they were a kid, that they are still holding something with… with today. And I think it's all of that. It's the unpicking and the reweaving.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah, so if someone is beginning to, sort of, recognize that they are wanting to unpick or unravel
Jenn Wilson: unlearn something.
Jenn Wilson: Are there any things, you know, obviously.
Jenn Wilson: Working with a therapist is a great thing to do, but for people who aren't working with a therapist and who want to, sort of.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Jerusalem.
Jenn Wilson: helping himself around this. Is there anything that you'd say
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): I think it's, like, so there's a little CBT technique that I use for lots of things, like, just in my own day-to-day, and it's if you have a thought, generally a negative thought about yourself, so, like, I don't know, let me think of something.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): So I'm… I'm working on a couple of book projects at the minute, at the minute, and so my… my negative automatic brain goes to, well.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): It's gonna be shit. Sorry, I hope I'm allowed to swear, sorry.
Jenn Wilson: It's alright, the odd swear is fine.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): But yeah, it's gonna be rubbish, right? And then I'm like, well, what's the evidence that it's gonna be rubbish, right? And I do a little, almost like a little list of, well, the evidence for is, and I do it in my head, but you can do it on paper as well, it's quite powerful, the evidence for it being rubbish, well, there actually isn't any.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): There really isn't any. And the evidence against it being rubbish is that, well, you've written books before, and they've done really well, you've got a decently engaged audience, people keep saying to you, this is a great idea, it's going to be amazing, like, that's the evidence for. And then I'll compare them, and generally, I'll have very little evidence against.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And then the other thing that I do is,
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And I'm trying to think of an example. So, this is the example that I use with some of my clients, not necessarily a real-life example, but, like, lots of people, for example, will get quite anxious if a partner doesn't text them back, right? Your brain might go to that space of, oh, they've gone off me.
Jenn Wilson: So again, you can do that little bit of, like, evidence collecting, well, what's the evidence they've gone off me? What's the evidence they haven't?
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): But then the other thing that I do is, well, what else could be going on in this situation? And that… and it can apply to anything, but in the example that I've given, well, they, you know, their phone might be dead, they might be in a meeting, they might be sick, anything, you know, there's loads of things in there. And I almost, again, make a list of, well, what else could be going on here?
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): So I check… very much it's about checking the evidence of what you think.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And it… for me now, I've been doing that for, you know, since I first went to therapy, probably about 20 years ago, it's just habit. I just do it naturally. But at first, it can feel really unnatural, and like you're swimming against the tide, but gradually, it will become habit, and it will just become part of your day-to-day.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And you won't just blindly believe everything you say to yourself, because the biggest learn…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): that I think any of us can have, one of the biggest learns, there's lots of big learns, isn't there? But is that just because we think it doesn't mean it's true.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah, absolutely, and the… that we can… that we can take control of our own thoughts, and the… the stories, the questions…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): we tell ourselves, yeah.
Jenn Wilson: Exactly. One of the questions that I've certainly used, with clients and on my own, kind of self-development is that, what is the story that I'm telling myself right now? And that, is it true thing, and actually…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): You know, actually, no, maybe there's another story I can take control of.
Jenn Wilson: And then that… that's… those thoughts lead to the emotions, don't they? And then…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Yeah, exactly, exactly, and I guess that's the other thing to note, is that
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Whatever you think and feel is okay. It's how you behave that really matters, ultimately.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah, and, and so,
Jenn Wilson: In terms of, like, change-making, I think often a lot of people who work, in, you know, in purpose-driven.
Jenn Wilson: Change-making, you know, activist kind of ways. Find it really hard to…
Jenn Wilson: put their own needs first, because they want to change the world, they want to look after everyone else, they want to give and give and give. Yeah. So… how… how would… how would… how can people tackle that from your point of view as well?
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): It's a really hard one. I, a lot of the clients that I work with, because I do work within that sort of LGBTQIA plus space.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): you know, they will say to me, well, all this is going on, how can I be happy?
Jenn Wilson: Mmm.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): You know, I want to, like, fight the system, and I want to make change, and, like, absolutely do that. But I think it's about finding a way
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Finding a way to find that peace.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): In whatever way you can. And for some people, that will look, like, small, really small, and that's okay. For some people, that will be massive, and that's okay.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): But it's making sure that it's not at a detriment to yourself, ultimately, and it's checking in on that. It's holding really clear boundaries with yourself and your time and your energy, which is… can be really hard. Again, I'm pretty good at it, because I've been practicing for a long time, but not everybody has, right?
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): So I think it's… it's really getting the balance, I think, between doing the things, doing all of the things.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): but also taking time for you. And maybe that is, like, going to a protest, but… because for me, and we do go to protests sometimes, and I get quite peopled out, and then it's being quiet for, like, a whole day afterwards to… to recover from that.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): It's… it's recognizing your own needs and remembering that they're as important as the collective need or the societal need.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I often am saying to people.
Jenn Wilson: that if we are trying to be the change you want to see in the world, then that includes you, you know? If you can't liberate yourself along with everyone else, then you're not…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): it's not gonna work, ultimately. You… I think…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): you ultimately… you can't help anybody else unless you're okay yourself. And I know I say this to lots of people in lots of different settings, but… because a lot of people find it hard to prioritize themselves.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): But I think, well, sometimes, for some people, maybe frame it about, well, actually, I can't do anything for anybody if I can't get out of bed, you know?
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Absolutely.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): so it… I think it is, you know, I… I often think to myself, like, because I'm… I've got ADHD, so I can be quite, lax about eating, for example, which sounds ridiculous, but it's true.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): So I kind of frame that to myself, well, if you don't do that thing, you're going to be too tired to look after your kids, and do your work and do all the things that you want to do, and it's that. If you don't look after yourself, you're not going to have the energy or the capacity to do what you want to do.
Jenn Wilson: into the world.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah, totally, Leanne. And so, just moving on a little bit from the kind of one-to-one therapy work that you do, I know you also do a bit of, kind of campaigning and publications and… Yeah. Tell us a bit about those.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Yeah, I love, I love it. So, I, decided probably about a year ago now that I was gonna set up a LGBT wellbeing magazine, and the reasons for that are…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): twofold, I think. So, firstly.
Jenn Wilson: Because I do work with a lot of clients in that space, I know that it can be quite a lonely space.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): So I think it's important to have those connections, even if that is just reading someone's story and thinking, oh my god, yeah, that's me too, can feel so powerful, seeing yourself reflected in another person, and we don't see enough of that in the queer community.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And then I think, you know, I've got friends that would say, and I suspect that they're wrong, but that would say, I've never met a trans person, right?
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): So, for young people growing up that maybe feel themselves that they've got some gender dysphoria, or there's a dissonance going on, they might not know any other people that that has ever happened to. So I think to kind of see that reflected is really, really important. So that's kind of part of it.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And then the other part, I think, just given the current climate and the current, sort of, heaviness that sort of sits over the community.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): I think it's really important to amplify… amplify the voices of others, and that's really, really important to me, because I… I am quite a quiet human. You're not gonna, sort of, see me, posting massive things on Facebook or whatever, because I don't have the…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): I don't know that I always know what I'm talking about, but I will share things from others that I do believe know what they're talking about, and that's what my magazine is about. And sometimes I do write pieces, don't get me wrong, but it is about amplifying the voices of others, making sure that others who maybe are a bit quieter like me feel that they have got a space to be heard.
Jenn Wilson: and…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And I think that's really, really important, and it…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): that's something that brings me that sense of inner peace with how I move through the world as well.
Jenn Wilson: I think you're so right, Leanne, and I,
Jenn Wilson: As someone who kind of came out, as it were, in my… in my midlife.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Hmm.
Jenn Wilson: I… I often feel like a lot of…
Jenn Wilson: LGBTQ culture and community is centered around nightlife and.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Yeah.
Jenn Wilson: when.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): It really is, yeah, it really is.
Jenn Wilson: And so, actually, being able to find community in other ways, in an.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): lose.
Jenn Wilson: bases, is so powerful and so important.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): really important.
Jenn Wilson: And to see that represented as well, so that you know that you don't have to be a certain type of person.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Yeah, and I try it for the magazine, I try to get a range of different, I guess, intersectionalities and different voices and different aspects of the community, because I think it's really important.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Because I know, like, certainly for… we live… I live… where I live, I live in quite a small community. We are the only same-sex family in my kid's entire school. It's a small school, don't get me wrong, but we are… we are the only ones, and so for me.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): you know, you've got kids that are coming up there that are not… are still not seeing people that look and sound and feel like they do. And I appreciate my magazine isn't aimed at that audience, but in general, I just… you know, there are a lot of people like yourself that have kind of realized a bit later in life who they are and who they want to be.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And I think it's just really important that you can see someone else and think, oh my god, yeah, they… they're like me.
Jenn Wilson: Absolutely. Because I spend a lot of time telling… saying, you know, my message is all, no to normal, and be more irregular, and because I've got brightly colored hair, and I'm quite a noisy sort of personality, I'm not actually… I'm actually very shy and quiet, but at first impression, I can seem quite confident and out there.
Jenn Wilson: you know, I've done performing arts and things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that sometimes my message of being more irregular and say no to normal might come across as, you've got to be wacky, and you've got to…
Jenn Wilson: and you've got to be noisy, which is not… I'm not suggesting that people… No, I know that. …be like me. I'm suggesting people should be like themselves.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Yeah.
Jenn Wilson: It's such a hard thing to unlock for people, isn't it?
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): It really can be, because, like, I… when I think… I talk a lot about my kids, but, like, right now they're… I've got, they're twins, they're seven,
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): All they want to do right now is be exactly the same as their friends, you know?
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And I think that's very, very normal for kids in that age group to want to be just like their friends. And I think, you know, I see it in adults too, like, oh, what are you wearing? What are you wearing this weekend? You know, stuff like that. Like, we want to fit in.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And… and your messaging is great, isn't it? Because it's… it's okay not to.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And I think… I think that is, again, it's really important to hear that it's okay not to, and I, you know, I talk a lot in some of my spaces about.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): you know, stepping outside the boxes, it's okay if you don't fit this particular label, because there's lots of labels, isn't there? And it's okay if you don't fit that particular label. You don't have to, just be you. Doesn't matter.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah. Do you find that comes up a lot for people? Like, am I L, or G, or B, or T, or even Q, or I, or A?
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Yeah!
Jenn Wilson: But then there's, like, I was talking to another person who's coming on this podcast about their very new and diverse, kind of, micro-identities, like, things like Demi Boy, or…
Jenn Wilson: omnisexual, or things like that, and some of mainstream culture is like, oh, for God's sake, alphabet soup, why do you have to invent all these terms?
Jenn Wilson: And… I think there's something about…
Jenn Wilson: Trying… just sort of breaking it all down, and making it less…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): I think, for some of us.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): we need… we need a label to, it's like a lens through which to understand ourself, if that makes sense. And I, you know, I've given myself labels over time, and like, gradually as I've got over, I've kind of just stepped away from them all again, and, just, you know, whatever.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): But I think for some people, a label really… like, I got diagnosed with ADHD, which is a label, ultimately. And that label, for me, was a lens through which to understand myself. And I think the same with, you know, some of the sort of LGBTQ labels. Like, I would just call myself queer now, because I don't really want to put a label on it.
Jenn Wilson: But for some people, it's really important to…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): To have that lens through which to understand themselves.
Jenn Wilson: Hmm.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And I think it can be really.
Jenn Wilson: It can be really affirming for some people, and really the opposite for others, and it's hard to do, isn't it?
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And I think it can shift over time, I mean, I think… Absolutely.
Jenn Wilson: If you take that parallel with ADHD diagnosis, which I also went through later in life, diagnosed when I turned 50.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Mmm.
Jenn Wilson: It's that…
Jenn Wilson: initially, there was a whole, right, great, I know this about myself, and I can go and find other people who also… Yeah.
Jenn Wilson: have this label and learn from them about how to navigate the world as a person like this. And there's something wonderful about finding your community, finding people who understand it and have shared experience. And at the same time.
Jenn Wilson: It's really unhelpful sometimes, because of the stigma attached to the label, or the assumptions that people will make about it.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Absolutely. It's still a box that you're putting yourself in, isn't it?
Jenn Wilson: Mmm…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And I agree completely, I think…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Labels can be really useful, but also really the opposite, and it is… it's working out what's right for you, isn't it, ultimately?
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Yeah. As you said there, that will absolutely change over time. Like, at one point in my life, I was like, yeah, I… I am a lesbian. Now I'm like, I'm not really, though. I'm gonna… I'm gonna strip that one back, like, and I, you know, I'll hear a new label.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): or a new terminology sometimes, and I'll go immediately to, like, ChatGPT and be like, what is this? And then I'll find out, and I'll be like, oh, that's me! And then I'll have forgotten about it in about 10 minutes, and moved on with my life, because I have got ADHD, and that's what happens, but I think…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): I think for some people, it's really important to know where they fit in the world, and I think for others, it's kind of, meh, I don't really care.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah, and I think moving through that, and not letting a label be put on you by.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): somewhere.
Jenn Wilson: else.
Jenn Wilson: And not letting a label be a box that you get stuck in.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): That's it, that's it. And I think some… you know, I was stuck in that lesbian box for a long time, because I'm married to a woman, so people just assume that that's a fact.
Jenn Wilson: Hmm.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): And it isn't a fact at all, but, like, can I be bothered explaining that half the time? Absolutely not, but do I know who I am in that inner peace space? Yeah, I do.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah, absolutely. And that self-awareness, like you said at the beginning, it's a really…
Jenn Wilson: Powerful thing to own, isn't it?
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Yeah, it really is.
Jenn Wilson: Yeah.
Jenn Wilson: Oh, Leanne, it's been great listening to you talk about your work and, and, the kinds of support that,
Jenn Wilson: That people… of all communities, as you said, you work predominantly with queer people, but…
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Yeah, why would that…
Jenn Wilson: Those challenges are so universal, I think.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely.
Jenn Wilson: if people want to find out more about you, or find the publication, by the way, if anyone's listening and wants to know, I've… I have had articles in a couple of your publications, and I may well do again, then where… where can people find you on the internet?
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): So, I am on Instagram, and my Instagram is embraceYourBestQueerLife, with… sorry, I'm just reading it, but, with underscores in between each word. And then I also have a website, which is www.leanTerrycanceling.co.uk.
Jenn Wilson: Excellent. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure, Leanne. Thanks for being my guest today.
Lianne Terry (She/Her/They): Anytime.
Jenn Wilson: Cheers.
